castro316:


Okay why are we not following the other 729 laws of moses where he said you should not eat snail or catfish? An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Why is it only the laws regarding money that our pastors uphold? They say that thru Jesus Christ dying we are no longer under the law, we are under grace are these laws not the same laws? The bible says you must tithe because you are under the law now that we are unnder grace should we still tithe? Dot be deceived

Is the ten commandments still effective till now?
Is it part of the law?
Was it abandoned?

babeosisi:

.
Nigeria is hard
A pastor shouldn't even depend solely on people and live off them let alone take their January salary.

Yet Peter, John and the rest apostles depended on the church to feed cos they never did any other job. Even Jesus Christ told Peter to abandon his fishing job and start fishing men, yet you expect him not to eat of men like he ate of fish. When Jesus was crucifed, Peter went back to fishing but Jesus upon resurrecting told him to leave it unless he wants to prove that he loves fishing more than him Jesus.

PrecisionFx:


The law said u should bring ur agricultural products after harvest as first fruit, First fruit was never money n will never be money

Answer the question instead of beating around the bush. Did Jesus change the law?

asuustrike1:

Is the ten commandments still effective till now?
Is it part of the law?
Was it abandoned?

They even say the book of Proverbs which is the book of wisdom is also the law of Moses. So we are to throw away the book of wisdom just as they threw away the laws of Moses. No wonder they are foolish.

alBHAGDADI:


They even say the book of Proverbs which is the book of wisdom is also the law of Moses. So we are to throw away the book of wisdom just as they threw away the laws of Moses. No wonder they are foolish.

Don't mind them jare. They will just be studying the bible like literature. No understanding, no inspiration from the holy spirit.

asuustrike1:

Answer the question instead of beating around the bush. Did Jesus change the law?

Ur question is stupid n unconnected to the fact that Bible clearly stated 50 times that first fruit is paid from first n best agricultural products Israelites harvest, it is not money.

alBHAGDADI:


Yet Peter, John and the rest apostles depended on the church to feed cos they never did any other job. Even Jesus Christ told Peter to abandon his fishing job and start fishing men, yet you expect him not to eat of men like he ate of fish. When Jesus was crucifed, Peter went back to fishing but Jesus upon resurrecting told him to leave it unless he wants to prove that he loves fishing more than him Jesus.

Are your pastors living like Jesus and Peter ?
Are they?


These are words of Paul in Acts 20:34

You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions.

How many pastors you know can say that?
Can your pastor preach on that verse?
They would rather leech on the congregants and suck blood from them using twisted scriptures
Those days are coming to an end

asuustrike1:

Answer the question instead of beating around the bush. Did Jesus change the law?

They believe Jesus changed the law. So what they are saying is that we can now we can now patronize familiar spirits and wizards

Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

PrecisionFx:



Ur question is stupid n unconnected to the fact that Bible clearly stated 50 times that first fruit is paid from first n best agricultural products Israelites harvest, it is not money.

Mr man your assertion is stupid because you know nothing about the scriptures. A simple question was put before you just shaking without reasonable answers

alBHAGDADI:
When someone acts foolish, you call him foolish. Even Paul called people foolish, buy you don't know cos you have never read the Bible before .

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

And who do you think you are? Apostle Paul
You read the Bible but somehow missed the part where Jesus admonished Christians not to call anyone a fool (Matt 5;22).


When you end up in hell for doing so, just holla at the Angels and tell them Apostle Paul did that to the Galatians too.

Funny Nigerian Christians every where.

alBHAGDADI:


They believe Jesus changed the law. So what they are saying is that we can now we can now patronize familiar spirits and wizards

Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

babeosisi:
If you are one of those that foolishly give your January salary to your pastor, you have been sold a lie.
It is the invention of commercial pastors about a decade ago.

The Bible has no such teachings
You celebrate the birth of the savior December 25th and yet believe he needs your money to bless you.
That money is to satisfy your greedy pastor and has nothing to do with Christ.

Stop being pawns in the hands of these greedy men of mammon.

I dare anyone to show me where anyone surrendered their first salary to anyone in the Bible? You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Don't let people twist an old testament practice that has nothing to do with bringing money and make you act foolishly.

If you don't know what to do with your salary,go give it to your mother.

Don't be a mumu

Since you don't have a reference, you are an authority and can't be referenced.

asuustrike1:

Is the ten commandments still effective till now?
Is it part of the law?
Was it abandoned?

Christians are not walking by keeping the law
The law by the way there are 613 not 10 was not given to us
The coming of Christ made the law obsolete

babeosisi:


Are your pastors were living like Jesus and Peter ?
Are they?

These are words of Paul in Acts 24

You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions.

How many pastors you know can say that?
They would rather leech on the congregants and suck blood from them.

Paul was not a pastor but an evangelist. Peter, John and the rest were pastors of churches. The same Paul who said he works to feed himself said he saw nothing wrong in the other apostles living of the Gospel. Paul could sustain himself because he was a single guy while the other apostles had family. He said he also had power to stop working and feed of the Gospel, but he chose not to for his own reasons which he didn't impose on others.

1 Corinthians 9:1-15
1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?

5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void

babeosisi:


Christians are not walking by keeping the law
The law by the way there are 613 not 10 was not given to us
The coming of Christ made the law obsolete

So then I can steal from my neighbour na or disobey my parents. That is what you implied

macello4:
how do want the CHURCH to survive? Cos we need money to run the church.

To also buy private jet?

This is Paul.speaking in Acts 20

. 33I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold or clothing. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. 35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”

But what these tithe and first fruit coveters do and say is totally different from the ways of Apostle Paul.
They are insatiable.
They won't quote those areas for you
They will quote it is more blessed to give than receive to us meanwhile apostle Paul used himself as an example in his giving.

If you Church goers can just spend time reading the bible instead of jumping from one holy ghost and anointing service to another, you will realise that your pastors are hiding truths from you because they don't want you free.
They want you blind so they can milk you dry

alBHAGDADI:


Yet Peter, John and the rest apostles depended on the church to feed cos they never did any other job. Even Jesus Christ told Peter to abandon his fishing job and start fishing men, yet you expect him not to eat of men like he ate of fish. When Jesus was crucifed, Peter went back to fishing but Jesus upon resurrecting told him to leave it unless he wants to prove that he loves fishing more than him Jesus.

U no know wetin u Dey talk o

asuustrike1:

Mr man your assertion is stupid because you know nothing about the scriptures. A simple question was put before you just shaking without reasonable answers

I don't need to answer ur idiotically foolish questions about Jesus changing the law, Is the topic or any part of the topic connected to changing of the law?

The law stands as long as First fruit is concerned n it is not and eas never money. It was agricultural products

babeosisi:


Christians are not walking by keeping the law
The law by the way there are 613 not 10 was not given to us
The coming of Christ made the law obsolete

Then go ahead and do all the below which the law is against.

Leviticus 18:6-17
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their unclothedness: I am the Lord.

7 The unclothedness of thy father, or the unclothedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness.

8 The unclothedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's unclothedness.

9 The unclothedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover.

10 The unclothedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own unclothedness.

11 The unclothedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness.

12 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

14 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

15 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness.

16 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's unclothedness.

17 Thou shalt not uncover the unclothedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her unclothedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

Kai
This person doesn't know that Paul was actually a church planter that went from.place to place planting churches then visiting them.periodically ,like a general overseer.
And when he was imprisoned he would write them letters .

alBHAGDADI:


Paul was not a pastor but an evangelist. Peter, John and the rest were pastors of churches. The same Paul who said he works to feed himself said he saw nothing wrong in the other apostles living of the Gospel. Paul could sustain himself because he was a single guy while the other apostles had family. He said he also had power to stop working and feed of the Gospel, but he chose not to for his own reasons which he didn't impose on others.

1 Corinthians 9:1-15
1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?

5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void

OMG

So please tell us one pastor in the bible.let''s see how he lived and what he preached.
See reasoning

babeosisi:
This is Paul.speaking in Acts 20

. 33I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold or clothing. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. 35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”

But what these tithe and first fruit coveters do and say is totally different from the ways of Apostle Paul.
They are insatiable.
They won't quote those areas for you
They will quote it is more blessed to give than receive to us meanwhile apostle Paul used himself as an example in his giving.

If you Church goers can just spend time reading the bible instead of jumping from one holy ghost and anointing service to another, you will realise that your pastors are hiding truths from you because they don't want you free.
They want you blind so they can milk you dry

Was Paul a pastor of any church like Peter, John and the rest?

Paul was an evangelist and not a bishop/pastor. Use the fill time pastors e.g Peter, John and the rest as examples.

Pachesky:
I'm not surprised about the comments ive read here, many people have turned to bible scholars over night and believe they have become wiser without even studying the bible in fulfilment of the scriptures of the last days are men would be lovers of their own soul and not the word..

If you have no idea about first fruits just keep quiet and let those who know its importance carry on with it.
Ill pick a worldly example. Taxes are required of every working class citizen by law. Just because the government of your country missues tax payers money meant for infrastructural developments doesn't make taxes illegal..whether you pay or not doesnt render tax paying a scam or a lie..
And when the hour comes those who failed to pay when caught would be handed their appropriate judgement depending on their level of default..

Thats how first fruits, tithes, offerings and free will giving and other requirements of God would be judged too..if you like pay or not when the hour comes we would all know who has been wise and who has been foolish..

There are fake pastors everywhere but I pray that God would not let the actions of these wolves in sheep clothings who have made many christian backslide continue to turn the hearts of others cold.

Bible scriptures supporting first fruit
Proberbs 3:9-10
Leviticus 23:10
Exodus 23:19
Deuteronomy 18:4

Funny how people can exhume the law for monetary gain but ignore every other. We are under the Law of Liberty in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 English Standard Version (ESV)

6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

PrecisionFx:


I don't need to answer ur idiotically foolish questions about Jesus changing the law, Is the topic or any part of the topic connected to changing of the law?

The law stands as long as First fruit is concerned n it is not and eas never money. It was agricultural products

Mr man you are still beating around the bush. The law or the topic is from the scriptures. You know nothing about the bible. You better go and study well instead of relying on those half baked preachers that deceive their members with sweet words.

All I can get from this thread is that, MOST CHRISTIANS ARE JUST FOOLS

babeosisi:


OMG

So please tell us one pastor in the bible.let''s see how he lived and what he preached.
See reasoning

1 corinthians 9 is actually about the life of the apostles Paul mentioned in it's verse 5. Go and read it, you will see that they didn't work and they ate from church.

alBHAGDADI:


Was Paul a pastor of any church like Peter, John and the rest?

Paul was an evangelist and not a bishop/pastor. Use the fill time pastors e.g Peter, John and the rest as examples.

Please show us that peter was a pastor
What was the name of his church and where did he ask for tithe or first fruit?
See as you don dey show ignorance

eelipumpin:


Funny how people can exhume the law for monetary gain but ignore every other. We are under the Law of Liberty in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 English Standard Version (ESV)

6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Your firstfruits/tithe is different from giving. Free will offerings is giving but firstfruits/tithes is paying. You pay because it is a debt you power God. That's why he said you are robbing him. It's the second thing as paying house rent. You can't say you have free will to your landlord. No, you paid it cos you owed it

Pachesky:

Please lets be intelligent with our replies so we dont appear to look silly at the end..
How can the bible mention january salary for petes sake..i know you are aware of the different era in which we are referring to. The agricultural age if i may put it. Where income was based on seasons/harvest and not a fixed monthly salary that we have now today.
So ideally you bring your first fruits to the house of the lord based on the time of your harvest.

Now to our own era, ask your self when do most workers start earning their first salary for the year?
And when are salaries most likely to be reviewed for increase?
I guess you know the answer..(exceptional cases for promotions done mid year)

And to your second point about jesus talking about first fruits.. some of you forget that Jesus did not come to condemn the old laws but to give us a better way to doing things Matthew 5:17..meaning that there were some old laws that did not need to be tampered with..(topic for those who intend to study their bibles and gain more understanding myself included).

Firstfruits mean the best of your harvest or earnings. And our best is dependent on our willingness to give it. So if I'm earning 50k and my expenses is 40k and I give God 5k willingly, he understands, he sees my heart. He's a loving God, he won't ask me to bring everything.

Let's get practical. He said they should bring their firstfruits to his temple. The priests collect so as to have materials to sacrifice to God. If it was all their farm harvest of the first month that God asked for and all the Israelites brought them, abeg where the priest go keep them, them no go spoil? Mind you we should learn to understand the principles behind all those laws. Jesus came to teach us the principles behind those laws which are loving God and loving our fellow human.
That pastor collecting your January salary is wicked and he's a thief. Stealing in the name of God.

Imagine a church with more than 30million mumus collecting their January salary. Let's even say they are earning 10k for salary, multiply 30m by 10k. These pastors are thieves.

Just a little education albaghadi since I see you don't do much studying.
There are offices of operation in the body not titles
The church modelled to us in the Acts was not a one man church affair
There were no owners
The church was and is supposed to be a body of believers with the various gifts and offices in operation.
They were governed by a council of elders
There was no man claiming to be a conduit through which the holy Spirit spoke to whom you gave January salary or tithe that's why you won't see any place any apostle paid or received tithes.
Your pastor won't teach you this truth because they want you blind.
They have business empires called churches which you fund anticipating blessings and they bequeath to their children as inheritance
That was never the plan of God.

The church in acts had a council of elders making decisions so there was checks and balances.
Not today where one man wakes up and sets up shop and starts scamming the gullible and their brainwashed followers are fighting those trying to open their eyes .

babeosisi:


Please show us that peter was a pastor
What was the name of his church and where did he ask for tithe or first fruit?
See as you don dey show ignorance

Do you people read the Bible at all? Yet you act like you know it all. How dare you ask whether Peter was a pastor of any church? Same Peter what Jesus said he will build his church on?

Mathew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Below is Peter speaking about his eldership

1 Peter 5:1-5
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.