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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. (7768 Views)
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Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Dantedasz(m): 6:02pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
LordReed: "More astounding rubbish". In the words of Ken Humphries. |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 6:39pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:It is beautiful seeing the other cheek turned! |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 6:42pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
budaatum:.....I didn't get you 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 6:46pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Muttley is working on the premise that you did chose to believe what you believe. And that you could very easily just chose the opposite, that God does exist, and you won't be damned. What you reckon, muttley? Her choice or not? 1 Like |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 6:48pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:I'm admiring your patience. 1 Like |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 6:49pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Thank You 1 Like |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 7:01pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Thank you, great minds think alike. I do that and same for others too. I do exactly same way you did and without even a squeal too about what I've done XxSabrinaxX:I am sorry to be the one to burst your bubble and let you know that God did not influence you to come open this thread and be posting on it. You came here on your own accord. It is true, you're correct to admit that in His omnipotence, God has the power. It is within His omnipotence that God blessed you with the power so you can take decisions and/or make your own decisions without being forced, dragged, pulled, yanked, tortured, cajoled, enticed, threatened by God. You cant be blasé about it as much as you like or want to but the truth and fact of the matter is that God upon your crestion, upon your existence relinquished control, you have freewill, have the choice to respond or not respond to God. God has given everybody carte blanche, but the caveat is, look forward, to the day, when you'll be giving explanations for every thought, every word and every deed you've done XxSabrinaxX:... but you are wrong for giving an affirmative answer because God did not force or coerced you to come comment on this thread. Everything you so far how done and will do on this thread is by your own volition. Notice I wrote your own volition and not God's XxSabrinaxX:I really dont know how many alter egos you'll have before you stop The subtle throw of shade was obvious, so I wrote: "Did God make you to start behaving or God prompted you to try dissing like a bitch?" Do you anywhere in that remark, read me calling you a bitch? Huh? Saying "... behaving or dissing like a bitch" is quite different to "... called a bitch" XxSabrinaxX:Of course there are more but it doesnt mean you are any wiser in your understanding of the intricacies of hell I asked you where did you learn that people are going to suffer forever in "hell" but instead of a valid, short, sweet and simple reply, you go graffitiing the thread with unnecessary bible verses? I know you are familiar with "hell" and you know about bible verses on "hell" but like I earlier said, you dont understand what is going down there with "hell". Bluntly put, you have no idea, no understanding of the intricacies of hell and that why you regurgitated that "suffering in "hell" forever" false bullshit. I repeat, where did you learn that people are going to suffer forever in "hell"? |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 7:01pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:I laughed kikikiki ki. You really are desperate arent you OK how about considering that it is all about breaking the sin loop, and that's why man was subjected to it and/or exposed to it XxSabrinaxX:Why should He stop them? Isnt God consistent, has He stopped you from posting here, what He already knows are your false bullshits about Him? So it is God's integrity, righteousness, justness, fairness, love etcetera that is now being questioned, huh? Two trees were placed side by side each other in the centre of the garden, one symbolised death, misery, the good, the bad and the ugly, the other tree symbolised life and blissfulness. Though it was emphatically messaged that eating off one of the trees spells death, even the naming of the tree, its name is a dead giveaway of what eating off its fruit entails. God, no doubt, aside the warning not to eat, gave adequate telltale marks or signs Whats with you asking how to justify this huh? Is this a fair question to ask or sought, especially when you are not in full possession of all the facts? You set up a kangaroo court trying to convict God, on a frivolous lawsuit huh? |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 7:01pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
TheArranger:SMH, inadvertently indeed For the record, has God, inadvertently ever made you sin? Why didnt they opt out or say I want out, when God laid down the rule and spelled out the consequence for violating the rule? |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 7:33pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Don't see any reason for the comparisons but...Ok MuttleyLaff:No, i didn't. If an omnipotent, omniscient creator god truly existed, and he was at the helm of affairs from the very beginning, then all my actions and choices were already written out long before I even came into existence. It beats me how you've still not understood this. It is impossible to "make your own decisions" in a universe where every event has been predetermined by a creator. Dancing around this all day doesn't make it less of a fact than it already is. Omniscience and Freewill are mutually exclusive concepts and they constantly contradict each other. They always do. However, if you're still uncomfortable with this, you can start by explaining to me how they're both compatible with each other cos that's the only way you'll change my mind. MuttleyLaff:I don't get why you're so emotional about that comment. I never intended it as an insult, at least that's not what i had in mind. Going back and forth on this all day is just petty and is helping neither of us. MuttleyLaff:When you saw me quoting those verses, wasn't it so obvious that my answer to that question was the bible? Come on, now. Your common sense surely should have at least made that known to you. |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 7:49pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:That was so cringe, with all due respect I really hope you don't talk like that in public lol MuttleyLaff:Did you just write that? LOL! What's the damn point, lol? Surely an omnibenevolent god won't subject mankind to such pain and suffering in the first place. This "grand scheme" logic of yours still fails ultimately because God himself INITIATED the loop! What was God trying to prove? Sin would not have come into existence if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten from the tree. You're doing nothing but proving my point that God is a malevolent manipulator and not a loving god. MuttleyLaff:Come on, muttley . You're supposed to be smarter than this. Its not a matter of consistency and you know that very well. He knew the implications of Adam eating the fruit. Being the all loving, merciful god he is, he could have easily found a way to salvage the situation without subjecting mankind through all this torture. I'm beginning to question your knowledge on this subject, muttley. MuttleyLaff:LoL, the facts are there for all those who aren't blinded by religious dogma to see. Your God is a scheming manipulator and that's all he is. How does it make any sense to punish a man for crime you not only knew will happen, but you could easily stop and spare everyone the pain of the result? You can't ignore this, muttley. Deep down you know it 2 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 8:02pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Simply not pointing it out might have made them less curious about it. Planting it where they couldn't see it might have made it less obvious. Making it a very tall tree might have made it's fruit unreachable. Making the fruit unedible is also an option along with creating Adam and Eve to go blind when looking in the general direction of said tree. Lots of options for a benevolent knowitall god, and not your God muttley, who the more you defend it the more it comes across as a "malevolent manipulator and not a loving god" at all! 4 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 8:09pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Show some mercy! His God did make amends in the end by sacrificing its only begotten son and thereby taking on some of the pain itself. But one still must ask why not spare the pain to start with! 3 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 8:12pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
budaatum:THIS... is the issue right now. It not only makes God evil, it makes him look really stupid and confused lol 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 8:16pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:SMH, I knew this is going to be a labour of love. The actions were not already written out long before you even came into existence, they began happening the moment you popped into existence jumping on to scene or stage. Nothing, like as in, your choices have been predetermined. That is a fallacy! What you refuse to appreciate is the realism of God's Omnipotence and Omniscience. God knows the end from the beginning. God knows what you'll be doing in the next passing 5 minutes. God is somewhat like a grandmaster who has analysed all the moves on the board and so has answers to countermove each and every move on the board. He responds to whatever the choice might be that's made. For the mere fact that you dont claim you're omniscient, means you dont know all the facts, and it will be a miscarriage of justice, if you insist and be bent on adjudging God to be guilty, especially when you are not privy to the full and vitals facts of this matter. You're on a wild goose chase. Happy hunting season. Look, there's a fox over there! Tally ho!! XxSabrinaxX:It has nothing to do with being emotional at all. Maybe it's because I dont keep malice, maybe its because I say it as it is, maybe its because I find subtle digs, ribcage elbowed, nudge and prods distasteful. I also take exception to being lied about. I started with saying I give you greatest respect or something in that line, so stop kicking at the foot but keep your eye on the ball and kick that about the field, instead of your ocassional stamping on my foot XxSabrinaxX:Unlike you, I dont do conjectures, I ask questions to establish the truth or correctness of my enquiries. You clearly said: "people are going to suffer forever in "hell"", so I asked where did you learn that from. Now you're trying to say from the bible. OK zero on to where in the bible you learned that from. What premise do you base this on? I have been fair, gave you the chance but all you did, was go graffitiing the thread with unnecessary bible verses |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 8:35pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:So you're not a big fan of the "kikikiki ki" sniggering? You prefer me doing your "lol" version? XxSabrinaxX:I guess, it went swoosh, over your head XxSabrinaxX:Didnt you read it in black and green? XxSabrinaxX, God Himself did not INITIATE the loop but God up to a point had staved off the onset of the loop XxSabrinaxX:Keep my foot out of it XxSabrinaxX, play the ball, kick the ball, head the ball, chest down the ball, dribble with the ball, bicycle kick the ball, do the JJ Okocha turn with the ball etcetera. Play clean and sexy football please Now it's cost you the good opportunity of having a response to this your immediate above comment. XxSabrinaxX:You'll soon see, you'll soon realise and blurt out saying: Wow, there is a method in the madness afterall. Please God forgive me for my impetuousness |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 8:47pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media./images/8effa7b7964c33cf80d21e73cdf44359/tenor.gif[/img] Seriously, debating this issue with you could be likened to explaining social media to a 70 year old. I mean, come on lol As an omniscient being, can even God have free will if he knows everything? How would it be different? God knows you will be eating ice cream, so how did you really choose it if it was always going to be the case? I would argue that free will exists because YOU personally did not know the choice in advance. You might be a person who likes ice cream, but no one is forcing it down your throat. You at least have a choice when to eat it, or if you want to eat it at all. But if you knew for a fact that ice cream would be forced down your throat at a specific time, would it be a choice to eat that ice cream? No. That is God, being forced to do what he knew he would do. He is trapped by the knowledge of future events and an inability to prove that knowledge false. Freewill can never exist in this case, the contradiction here can not be denied If God knows everything then the choices are all already made, or just don't exist. Omniscient God can never gain new knowledge. I can see how this could be an uncomfortable idea to people, it makes God seem like a very static and not active. But that's just how it is. You're just taking us round in circles, and its not benefitting any of us. MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media1./images/0c6107a15da26042b50a293d5f2ee0e3/tenor.gif[/img] If you need some more salt for your salt, let me know honey MuttleyLaff:Is this boy joking? You asked me where I got the idea of hell being eternal from and I showed you multiple examples from the bible. How are you still asking me this question lol? Honestly, If you were any dumber, someone would have to water you twice a week |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 8:58pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Honestly, yes. At least "lol" isn't as crude and inferior as your version. MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media./images/7a059e812ebbac916587a247f96bda1a/tenor.gif[/img] Try reading this part more than 10 times to yourself, and let me know IF or WHEN it makes sense MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media1./images/ac1b4292b4f0d1f68da9e5f3eb69c49f/tenor.gif[/img] Muttley, I don't care who you are, and if you're reading this I still don't care. You've gone on for multiple posts saying nothing of meaningful value, from here on i advise you to remain silent because whatever you say will probably be stupid anyway. Don't test me cause you might end up having nightmares of this thread You've been warned |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 9:21pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:You still dont get it do you. God doesnt make choices for anyone God has seen all the choices you made. God sees in to the future, what you call being omniscient and omnipresent. You take your decisions and make your choices. God never permits anything to happen against your will (i.e. your freewill is paramount) XxSabrinaxX:There is no new knowledge for the Omniscient God to know about XxSabrinaxX:Would a hop on a merry-go-round do you nicely? XxSabrinaxX:Well you said and wrote: "people are going to suffer forever in "hell" How do you mean "suffer forever"? |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 9:21pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Grown arse man like you behaving like this. SMH. So this is your New Year's resolution, what a way to start a brand New Year and your daughter could be reading all this |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 9:52pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media1./images/2445dc0fb709544510865eef6a80cc45/tenor.gif[/img] Ok lol..... I'm going to go over this for the LAST TIME! As God, omnipotent and omniscient as he is, was choosing the details (physics/chemistry/etc/etc) of the universe, he saw exactly how each would cause the universe to play out. If he couldn't see that, he lacked omniscience. As such, when he chose the details he did, he effectively chose that exact universe to play out. Because all of our "free will" decisions are at least partially affected by external influences, his choice of details could have resulted in every logically possible combination/permutation of "free will" decisions that he could have possibly wanted. By choosing the specific set of details that he chose, he effectively chose the specific universe we have right now, which includes every single occurrence down to all of our "free will" decisions and the spin of every electron (and at even greater detail than that). In other words, even though it was arguably my "free will" decision to eat a squirrel sandwich for lunch today, god had the power to design the details of the universe such that I would've chosen a ham sandwich instead. Or he could've designed the details such that I would've chosen a unicorn sandwich. Or ANYTHING he wanted to the extent you claim he was omnipotent and omniscient at the time of creation. That means my decision to eat a squirrel for lunch was part of his master plan from the point of creation. There. I'm done with that. You can argue all day but it doesn't change the fact that OMNISCIENCE IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH FREE WILL! MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media./images/5fa8ba9593451a400013f2c343dfaed5/tenor.gif[/img] I don't understand, this is one of the major points i've been driving at for the past 1 hour. In fact, i literally said it in my last post. If God knows everything then the choices are all already made, or just don't exist. Omniscient God can never gain new knowledge.You've literally run out of things to say and now you're even arguing for me against yourself MuttleyLaff:[img]https://media./images/e3544b8117d3ecbb0cb8751f1ce0ff71/tenor.gif[/img] I'm not even joking, elementary school children are more creative than that. There isn't enough Oxycontin in the world to numb the pain of talking to a dumbass like you MuttleyLaff:Cc. budaatum, please explain to this boy that i've answered his question ages ago. Why does he want to punish me like this? Muttley, what do you want me to do for you? I can only explain to you but i can't understand it for you. 1 Like |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 9:55pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:E pain am die It's really sad and painful. Ordinary people live and learn. Muttley, you just live. Seriously, your god wasted a good asshole when he put a teeth in your mouth. I'm officially done with your dumbass lol. You're absolute garbage [img]https://media1./images/980fefd36ce46e30bb11e8861fa20633/tenor.gif[/img] 3 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Vic2Ree(m): 10:03pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
This thread is giving me goosebumps . |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Akin1212(m): 10:05pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX: Stop wasting your time with that dude. He is not thinking well. 2 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by TheArranger(m): 10:28pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
Damn, bruh. @MuttleyLaff, is this you? You don min it! 1 Like
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Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 10:29pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Wow how did I miss this, so budaatum what exactly is being achieved from God: 1/ Simply not pointing it out might have made them less curious about it? 2/ Planting it where they couldn't see it might have made it less obvious? 3/ Making it a very tall tree might have made it's fruit unreachable. 4/ Making the fruit unedible is also an option along with creating Adam and Eve to go blind when looking in the general direction of said tree. budaatum, hypothetically speaking, if the shoe were on the other foot, and it is you who happens to be Adam, what would you do and/or have done when God warned you about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, telling you, not to eat from eat and that if you do you will die? |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Omnipresent(m): 10:30pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:You all disturbing my mention with your omnipresent religious stuff |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 10:32pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
Omnipresent:LOL. So sorry 1 Like |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 10:35pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
Omnipresent:Serves you right for being everywhere! 3 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 10:44pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:You know me muttley, I just love testing things for myself. Soon as God turned its back, I'm having me some of that fruit, and I wouldn't be needing no serpent or Eve to tell me to. And when God starts telling me I'd work for my food and all and I didn't end up dying like was said I would, I'd be placing God under the Iiar column from thereon. About making me walk around naked!. But all that wouldn't really have mattered since I'd have been kicked out of the Garden of Eden along with Satan long before that to be honest. 4 Likes |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Nobody: 10:49pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Religion is a crime against humanity. |
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 10:51pm On Jan 07, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:buda explain to muttley? You kidding right?! You engage with muttley all of less than a month and you're tired already?! I been explaining to muttley all of last year and the year before and he still ain't got it, and I've in fact made him my "2019 Must Get It" project. I'm just glad I got you helping out with him, so please, for my sake, persevere. Muttley's a hard nut to crack, and I need all the help I'm getting. 3 Likes |
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