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Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 8:08am On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed: Authentic religion often begins in this extraordinary experience of the contingency of the world; this deep sense intuition that the world exists although it doesn't have to exist.You intuit when you consider or wonder about things especially things beyond natural. That's the point and "Begin" is the keyword here. Your intuition ends where evidence starts. Therefore, a conclusion from an evidential observation could not be said to be mere appeal to intuition; it's more than that. I'm not against using intuition, as it provides us with our first experimental data or primary concepts/basic principles which are the primary elements and the foundation of every scientific and philosophical speculation. However, what I'm pushing back on is your attempt to make of intuition the central and fundamental element of our power of acquiring this sort of knowledge. You seem to lack the nuance required for this type of discuss. Perhaps it's a waste of my work time explaining a bunch when you only conveniently use blanket statements to counter my argument instead of point by point constructive [counter] argument. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 8:12am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: You present no evidence so where was the intuition supposed to end? |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 8:27am On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:A hollow place in a solid body or surface. |
Re: Your Beliefs by Zodiac61(m): 9:26am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: On a serious note, you are guilty of the things you accusenothers of. You say the gods of Greek and Roman (and indeed, gods generally) of mythology have been eliminated by science. But you exclude the Christian God. Why? Is there any stronger evidence for it than any other God? Do you say that the Islamic God or the Hindu gods have likewise been eliminated? I bet you will. Seems like special pleading to me. As I said, your evidence for god is intuition. Well, I intuit that there are small fairies living behind my house. I never see them, but I know they are there. When I talk to them, they don't talk back, but I know they hear me and answer my prayers. The other day I lost my car keys and I prayed to them and found them. You see what I have done there. No different from what you do. Yet you will no doubt say I am crazy, if I truly believed that nonsense. The moment you start talking about Authentic Religion, you begin to lose the argument. What is "authentic religion"? Who defines what that even means? Who are you to claim that your religion is more authentic than someone else's? How much arrogance is contained in that phrase "authentic religion"? When I accused you of a "God of the gaps" argument, you accused me of making a straw man argument. Guess What? You have done it again. You ask "Why is there something rather than nothing? Why does the world exist at all? Why is there realm of nature?" Legitimate questions to ask, but your answer is ...because God. My friend, your thinking is seriously muddled. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 10:36am On Jan 09, 2019 |
Zodiac61:Brilliant argument. Bravo! You demolished my argument. Congratulations bro. Next. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 10:45am On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:The reality of an endless appeal to contingent causes is one of them. We know with utmost certainty that there is a nexus/creator/originator for contingent things including what we see and touch. Do you agree the following is a true statement, [b]"anything that has a beginning cannot create itself"? Do you also agree that the "creator of anything with a beginning cannot have a beginning itself"? |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 10:51am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: We know no such thing. What we have evidence for is that the universe is a result of natural processes, we have no evidence of universe creating beings. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 11:34am On Jan 09, 2019 |
Zodiac61:Do you know about ancient Greek and Roman myths? What do you know about their belief in gods? Do you say that the Islamic God or the Hindu gods have likewise been eliminated? I bet you will. Seems like special pleading to me.No, but do you want me to say that for you, solely to help you make your argument? Just ask and it could be done! As I said, your evidence for god is intuition. Well, I intuit that there are small fairies living behind my house. I never see them, but I know they are there. When I talk to them, they don't talk back, but I know they hear me and answer my prayers. The other day I lost my car keys and I prayed to them and found them. You see what I have done there. No different from what you do. Yet you will no doubt say I am crazy, if I truly believed that nonsense.[quote]I see what you've done. It's called a straw man argument. You didn't get this type of hallucinations from any of my statements so far. Refer to my actual argument about God. But hey, you have your right to make up stuff that I never said. It cute. Again, bavo! |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 11:58am On Jan 09, 2019 |
Zodiac61:Do you know about ancient Greek and Roman myths? What do you know about their belief in gods? Do you say that the Islamic God or the Hindu gods have likewise been eliminated? I bet you will. Seems like special pleading to me.No, but do you want me to say that for you, solely to help you make your argument? Just ask and it could be done! As I said, your evidence for god is intuition. Well, I intuit that there are small fairies living behind my house. I never see them, but I know they are there. When I talk to them, they don't talk back, but I know they hear me and answer my prayers. The other day I lost my car keys and I prayed to them and found them. You see what I have done there. No different from what you do. Yet you will no doubt say I am crazy, if I truly believed that nonsense.I see what you've done. It's called a straw man argument. You didn't get this type of hallucinations from any of my statements so far. Refer to my actual argument about God. But hey, you have your right to make up stuff that I never said. It cute. Again, bavo! The moment you start talking about Authentic Religion, you begin to lose the argument. What is "authentic religion"? Who defines what that even means? Who are you to claim that your religion is more authentic than someone else's? How much arrogance is contained in that phrase "authentic religion"?Objectivity does! Truth is absolute; it does not matter what any side is claiming. Truth doesn't change itself to accommodate your claim or my claim. And because it is absolute, only one of two or more contradicting truth claims will be true. If two or more people have contradicting claims, only one of them would be right. All of them could be wrong though but not more than one would be right. Use your dictionary to check what authentic means. Here's not the place for such. Arrogance is fine by me, as long as it doesn't hurt truth. Every religion makes exclusive claims as to why theirs is the one, the correct way. Are you such a snowflake that an exclusive claim triggers you? When I accused you of a "God of the gaps" argument, you accused me of making a straw man argument. Guess What? You have done it again. You ask "Why is there something rather than nothing? Why does the world exist at all? Why is there realm of nature?" Legitimate questions to ask, but your answer is ...because God.God of the gaps argument is for scientifically illiterates. Those questions haven't been touched by science let alone answering them. Science does not answer the question of "why", go and check! Now we know whose thinking is seriously muddled. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 12:02pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Oo boy! There's no evidence that the universe began with "natural processes". Natural processes have origin, mr scientist. |
Re: Your Beliefs by Nobody: 12:11pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
And, I suppose that is your definition? In fact,you can't have a hollow place in an ordinary surface. 'Hollow'is a word that suggests depth. And hollow places refer to deep areas. So,the surface with an opening is not always suggestive of depth. It only suggests depth when it is the surface of an object that is not in the form of a sheet. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 12:15pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: Quite true, we have no evidence for how the universe began but how it operates has been observed to be by natural processes and extrapolating to the beginning gives that inference. You on the other hand have nothing in the way of evidence for your god. |
Re: Your Beliefs by Nobody: 12:17pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches:Check out the 'Timing of Existence'. It is a topic I created and I trashed this thing out in what I posted under this topic. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 12:21pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: The word create is kind of a cheat. It implies an act of purpose. Nevertheless we've observed things that come into existence without cause, virtual particles. Your 2nd statement already fails for humans, rephrase? |
Re: Your Beliefs by Nobody: 12:26pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:You can't convince this guy. He is a bonafide creationist. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 12:38pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: He is a creationist? I didn't know that. The Catholic church doesn't oppose BBT or evolution as far I know. |
Re: Your Beliefs by Nobody: 1:01pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:He is more of a creationist than anything else. I made him to admit this in one of our arguments. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 1:03pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: Wow. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 2:53pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Well, your natural processes is one more evidence. |
Re: Your Beliefs by budaatum: 2:56pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: This is a difficult question! My first instinct is to say, Yes, "anything that has a beginning cannot create itself". A creator must create anything that has been created. I'm just glad you never said "everything that exists must be created". 9inches:No. The creator of anything with a beginning must also have a beginning! How else could it possibly come into existence if it did not at one point in time come in to existence? And don't give me "it was always in existence", unless you precede it with "I believe"? |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 2:59pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: LMFAO! Na wa. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 3:07pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:That's right. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. That includes virtual particles. |
Re: Your Beliefs by budaatum: 3:10pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches:And creators of things! |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 3:15pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: What is the cause of virtual particles? |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 4:54pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Right. I was busy when I sent it without review. Here: 1. Everything that has a beginning cannot exist out of itself"? 2. The source of everything cannot have a beginning. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 5:39pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: 1. Depends on what you mean by out of itself. Isotopes of elements are virtually created from theirself. 2. The source of everything cannot be the source of itself so its not the source of everything. |
Re: Your Beliefs by Nobody: 6:24pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:You can only come close to becoming a creationist by replying this guy when he asks his creationism-based questions. |
Re: Your Beliefs by LordReed(m): 6:58pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: Why would that be the case? |
Re: Your Beliefs by budaatum: 7:40pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Yeah, why would that be the case, Hell? It's not a exactly a catching communicable disease, you know! |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 8:34pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
budaatum:I believe it was always in existence. Amen. |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 8:44pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Laugh well. 1 Like |
Re: Your Beliefs by 9inches(m): 8:48pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
LordReed:Do the particles exist outside the universe that has cause? |
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