petra1:
TB Joshua is a man of God

frank317:


I dont know what it is and can't tell you because I have not done any personal research to find out.

I have given u reason why I ruled out demons yet u keep calling it demons.

If spiritual wife, that is a great giant and a great snake (only am) left Jim's body how come nothing significant changed about him? How come he hasn't told us anything about how it felt like having a spiritual snake leave his body?


I call all that meaningless mumbling. Why are u taking them seriously?

If someone gets cured of malaria, we see the difference instantly... But here we are a whole spiritual with,a spiritual snake, a spiritual giant, a demon, left jim's body and the young man has not gone to appreciate Joshua for a job well done, rather he is trying to forgive the man for embarrassing him, for making him talk nonsense.

Its really difficult thinking u are alright.

LordReed:


The question then is how do you know it got out of hand? Satire has the tendency to use real issues exaggerated for effect so how do we conclude Safran is not exaggerating if he refuses to confirm or deny any speculation?

shadeyinka:

Just watch the video and listen to the report of John Sarfran's crew.

The fact that Sarfran refuses to speak about an ordinary satirical comedy shows that it's something he'll rather want to forget and bury forever. Thats not how you treat Something of no value.

Who is Sarfran trying to protect by not speaking? His audiences or himself!?

triplechoice:


You keep repeating the same questions which I have already provided answers for.

Others have also provided enough explanations for you to understand what is actually taking place in those videos uploaded. It is either you don't take your time to read them or simply are unable to understand

I will just try to explain as clearly as possible what is actually happening in those videos . I don't know the exact methods used, but fear, anxiety, anger, excitement and any other kind of positive or negative emotions has been induced. Once these is achieved they easily shift into an altered state of consciousness which set the stage for a complete take over of their minds. It does not matter whether you are a willing participant or not. This is advance hypnosis technique which is not open to the public and it works. Whether you believe it or not. They only way to protect yourself is to stay away from such places.

By the time they stand in from of the deliverance minister they are ready to be plucked. Then shock is apllied by. suddenly hitting them on the head or any part of the body to achieve a final to take over of their mind, once this happens the brain slate is temporarily wiped clean and suggestions can then be inputted to make act accordingly. Demons talking through them barking like dog, meowing like a cat and just anything. At the end of the deliverance when the are brought back to full consciousness they don't remember anything.

This is the scientific explanation provided byprofessionals who have studied this phenomenon. You can do your research to disprove this

Although this method can put to good use, it is currently being abused. It is not only the Church that is involved in this. A lot of organizations are secretly using other forms of it to influence people whether for good or bad

As to why it doesn't not happen in catholic churches, the simple answer is they do not use it or hardly use it

So an orthodox church is safe to attend.

, It does not mean that those who use this methods in churches really understand what they are doing. They do it because it is what they have learnt from others and it works. Healings can be achieved but it is usually temporary a few are permanent.

Demons are not responsible for anything. This has nothing to do with denying God. I am not an atheist neither do I attend any church

, I have question for you..
Before the coming of Christianity to Africa, was the African possessed by demons? If he was, how was he delivered?

LordReed:


You have not answered the question, how can we be certain and conclude that Safran is not being his extremist self. I mean this is someone who got himself crucified, why would I think he can't play the part of a "demon possessed" person with all seriousness? The onus is on you to show that your conclusion is correct cos as it is there is sufficient reason to think otherwise.

shadeyinka:

I told you. Google is your friend. Find out the reaction of his crew members. The exorcism was supposed to be a joke which got out of hand. In all other series you watch as he rolls out the conclusions with excitement. This last one was different.

He himself said that he couldn't remember anything that happened during his Deliverance.

If it was an act, shouldn't he remember?

LordReed:


I can't find anything about his crew's reaction, link what you have.

MuttleyLaff:
Nwanne, long time, but I am sorry, you can tell that to the marines

budaatum:

You don't have to care what I think, Shepherd. In fact, I like you so I'll tell you something that you don't care or feel. I'm actually amused that anyone quoted on here thinks they've been quoted because the quoter cares what the quoted "feels" or "thinks". You are just one person amongst the thousands who read what has been written so why would one care what the quoted alone might think? Is one blinded to the silent thousands out there who read what one writes too who care? Why would one not behold the great matter a little fire kindleth when placed among our members as a world of iniquity that stains the whole body, that sets on fire the cycle of nature and is itself set on fire by hell? Do I love my fellow human beings when I do not care what they think or feel? Can one have bitter envying and strife in ones heart, glorying not, and lying against the truth and claim one loves one's neighbours? Why would I not put bits in my full of deadly poison tongue to tame it from unruly evil and turn about the whole body so it produces fruit of righteousness in peace of them that make peace?

I bet he told them by posting it on his Facebook page. But as I said, I'm amused.

petra1:
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

shadeyinka:

It's in the making of the video. Let me see if I can also find it for you

LordReed:


I can't find anything about his crew's reaction, link what you have.

They turned the camera around to one of the crew who said that he'd never seen John like that before and he seemed a bit freaked out too.

MuttleyLaff:
The bible in Matthew 24:24 says:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."

petra1, you are not alone, you're in company with the likes of shadeyinka, who also famzings TB Joshua. One day, one day, monkey go go market, no go return back, is TB Joshua own. Mark it down, no be curse ooo.

shadeyinka:
Sorry for offending you.

shadeyinka:
Can you please share one or two authentic Deliverances here for atheists to see and learn.

shadeyinka:
The fact that I used scoan video is because it is readily available. The thread is NOT designed to promote any man of God or ministry.

I am happy at least that some of the atheists here on NL can confirm that something weird happens during deliverance season. They can't seem to agree however that it is demons. At least, they are closer to my goal. They are forced to think

I pray that God will continue to speak to them even when the thread expires.

Shalom.

MuttleyLaff:
Nwanne keep the sorry for yourself because 10 billions of you can never offend me

To what end nwanne? For what purpose huh? Now you are beginning to behave nwanne, as if you are not familiar with ending part of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Nwanne, did anyone force Nicodemus before he came, under the cloak of darkness, to acknowledge who Jesus is and admit to recognising the demonstration of the power God by Jesus, by saying: "we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him"

Nwanne, you cant force things, you cant hurry up things, you cant force anything on nobagar, you cant force the working of the Holy Spirit. It is only the Holy Spirit that can convict of truth nwanne. It is the Holy Spirit's work to convict, it's up to God to ultimately judge, its yours and my work to love

shadeyinka:
....not one bit disappointed in you!

MuttleyLaff:
What is this supposed to mean please?

shadeyinka:
Nothing!
Except that I've learnt to read you

MuttleyLaff:
It was the same with about Paul.

Ah I remember, I used to hate Paul, I used to say, who does Paul think he is, who the foxtrot uniform charlie kilo is Paul, just like luvmijeje I used to look at Paul and read his epistle using the wrong end of the telescope but then, when I learned that Paul has a peculiar way and/or style of writing, everything changed. My whole perpective about Paul changed after that epiphany. Just like Peter, I learned the hard way, that Paul's comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of the Bible still and today.

shadeyinka:
I hear you.
Your nicest post in a long while!

MuttleyLaff:
Forgive me, if I ever have come across has offending you in the past. I am sorry, just that my bark is worse than my bite. Truth be told, I hardly and rarely bite. There is nothing personal, it just so happens, that I am prone to calling a spade a spade, and not a fork. I say things as they are and without mincing words sometimes. There are no sacred cows and I dont mind whose ox is gored, when and/or if things need to be said the way they are, especially when heavyweights and loyal opposition insufferable atheists are involved

shadeyinka:
No offense at all.
Shalom unto you

shadeyinka:

I can see that you are sincere. I can't see any evidence of a new life from Jim Iyke either. But it's not an unusual occurrence.

I used Iyke as an example out of several hundreds I could have used because it solves a major problem of Atheists. If you didn't know the example then you'll say he was a paid actor or a weak willed man. Etc

The will of man is stronger than anything. When a prisoner who doesn't want to be set free is freed anyway, what does he do?
He gets himself into the next available crime and make sure he is caught and sent back to prison.

Does Jim Iyke want to be free from any demon? I doubt it (he is rich, famous and healthy) why should he want to remain free.

If I showed you videos of Deliverances leading to a permanent lasting change, would it make a difference?

I can promise you any number you want (on YouTube)

shadeyinka:




Couldn't find the video but I found a link that made s reference to the crew member


http://forums.vogue.com.au/?showthread.php&t=40233

It was such a weird / interesting episdode... i was left at the end thinking... so was that real or was john just being himself by doing some crazy acting thing?

Watch it again, but this time pay close attention to the body language of both John and Bob.

At the start, Bob leans in towards John, staring at him and pointing at him in an intimidating manner, like this. Look at John's body language: he's leaning back and his shoulders are extremely tense. He's clearly uncomfortable. Now look at how Bob digs his finger into John's forehead. That's extremely intimidating. At the same time, he's telling John to stare into his eyes, while leaning in close to him and speaking quite loudly and aggressively at him. I have to say, if I was in John's position there, I would be extremely uncomfortable too. John's breathing hard now; he's starting to panic. Bob then stands up and over John, causing John to recoil further down into his chair, then Bob pushes a Bible on his head as seen here, while saying "I subject you". Bob is looming over him in a dominating fashion while John, now in full panic mode, is sinking into his chair and trying to do everything he can to get out of this situation. At 11:50, he tries to remove Bob's arms from on top of his head, but Bob grabs him and instructs others to grab him too. Being physically restrained while panicking only increases John's panic, causing him to fight back. At 11:59 Bob actually punches John, causing him to cry out. They continue to restrain him for several more seconds before letting him up. He's visibly shaken, as would anybody be after being intimidated, panicking, being physically restrained and assaulted.

Notice too all the build up before the "exorcism" begins? Notice all that suggestion? Bob goes to great lengths to act shocked and hammer in all that negativity from the beginning.

There's nothing supernatural going on here; only manipulation and intimidation. This is the kind of thing you see on Derren Brown shows, if Derren Brown was a bit more sadistic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/1wdldv/an_atheist_having_an_exorcism_done_to_him/cf1272r/

LordReed:


From the page you linked:



There just isn't any way to simply watch the video and conclude Safron wasn't acting. Read this analysis of the video:

frank317:

When drug addicts relapse, who do you blame? The Doctor?


Why is it not unusual. I think it is unusual. A treatment of common cough shows a difference in behavior, how much more deliverance from spiritual wife who is a great spiritual serpent, and who is a demon... Common.


Using Jim messed up ur case in my opinion. The guys statements afterwards showed TB and his crew wasted his time. There was a show with on reasonable effect.


Any prisoner that does not want to be set free has mental problem. Does Jim have a mental problem? Have u seen anyone with malaria that does not want to be healed?
Its only when it comes to spiritual things that u guys make nonsense out of nonsense.


Lol...u are funny. So rich and famous people like spiritual demons in them.
Well, u also have a point... Who will follow Jesus and remain poor when he can have a spiritual demon and be rich and famous.
So TB wanted Jim to be poor and unknown?



Show me an atheist deliverance that led to a lasting difference in behavior.
It might not change a thing, but after I poke holes and see none, I will admit.

Shepherd00:

I wish I read this. But, sorry, I don't care.

shadeyinka:

What you are saying is that John Sarfran is weak willed. I find that extremely difficult to believe: that a man who placed himself over to crucifixion, who had gone through worse Voodoo rituals now having PANIC attacks!?

shadeyinka:

You guys would always amaze me
First, it's all acting by the man of God who hired his clients
Then I presented Jim Iyke:
It wasn't acting again but the next thing is: find an atheist or a Jew who is demonized
Then I gave you John Sarfran: who is both a Jew and an atheist

Now, you want me to find you another Atheist!

YOU, go to SCOAN and document your experience!

frank317:


you really amaze me too... the Jim's case u presented is like a mockery to ur case.

JIM's life after delivery shows the delivery was a waste of time... get me an atheist deliverance that shows a significant after and before deliverance life.

Sarfran has been shown to be a joke.

i am sorry both examples are just a mockery to your whole deliverance thingy... that u fail to see this is what amazes me.

sorry, are u sure u are okay?

shadeyinka:

What you are saying is that John Sarfran is weak willed. I find that extremely difficult to believe: that a man who placed himself over to crucifixion, who had gone through worse Voodoo rituals now having PANIC attacks!?

You'll need to do a lot more to convince me.

If he was acting, how come he couldn't remember much of what happened in the Deliverance exercise?

Who should we believe more:
A crew member who was part of the program and saw the unedited episode
OR
An atheist like you trying hard to debunk a 15 minutes clip?

You tell me!

One of the crew said that he'd never seen John like that before and he seemed a bit freaked out too


And the crew member acted being freeked out too.

Find better excuse