IAmSabrina:

Jim didn't need to attend the service, but whatever.

Why the need to deliver Jim? Wasn't Jim's mum the one with the problem?

If you watched the full clip. It was a Sunday service. The "pastors" of scoan prays for every single person in the church. Those who manifests demons are brought out for deliverance. So was the case of Jim. He was just one of the several people who manifested their demon during Sunday service.

They have prayer lines for the sick people and that's after the service.

IAmSabrina:

You haven't explained how Kappas was able to do it if really it needs preparation & a willing participant

I expect you to know that there are exceptions. People who are extremely susceptible to going into the trance-state are one example. The other, is that there are methods like NLP, 'stealth' inductions, and other manners that people CAN get someone into a hypnotic state without their 'immediate' consent.

I say 'immediate', because perhaps the person had given prior consent at one point, and have been conditioned to go 'back' into a hypnotic trance on command. If they've done it enough, they could be put into that trance state even if they don't want to go there 'this' time, as it were.

I have watched a few of the clips and I can't seem to see anything extraordinary with his hypnotism.
In fact, I have a feeling that his demos are preprepped before his demonstration. I discovered that I used to have one of his books a long while ago.

Here is his shock therapy: which needed prep for it to work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-0VHQyFm8

IAmSabrina:

No one said hypnotism was that easy. Hypnotism isn't something any Joe can wake up and one morning and do. It is a practice that requires professional skill & intense concentration.

It's not uncharacteristic for Jim to expect a pastor to engage him and/or lay hands on him.

Not really. But scroll up a little

PS: Come to think of it, what happened to Jim's mum after the whole incident? Do you remember?

Spy's shouldn't last 1hour in the hands of a skillful hypnotist. Don't you think so?

You spoke about intense concentration. Who needed it the hypnoist or the person needing hypnosis?

Jim's Mum? She DIED!
And Jim was angry and disappointed in scoan. That was the main reason why he went in the first place. It wasn't about himself, it was about his mum.

IAmSabrina:

I don't doubt that Jim lost his memory

Rainbows look real, Shadeyinka. But can you see the end of it?

People suffer mentally, you know. Hysteria is a real phenomenon and has been extensively documented. So is mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, in which the sufferer actually can hear voices.

People are also highly suggestible, seeing and hearing what they've been primed to see and hear. Memory is now known to be so unreliable that many experts question its use in courtrooms. The human brain is thought by many non-psychologists to be refined and consistent instruments, when in fact they are fallible and easily misled.

Human perception is much weaker than you think!

I agree with you, there are mental illness like schizophrenia where a person seem to see, hear or feel things that don't appear real to others. Yes!

Could Jim had been mentally sick? How come it got diagnosed in the church and never before or after that time. Schizophrenia even with the best medical help need several years of therapy before it is cured.

Moreover, how come these people are manifesting characteristics not in medical books

Check out this one also. It sounds like a multiple personality disorder. Not sure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RuCLB6vM3M

shadeyinka:

I have watched a few of the clips and I can't seem to see anything extraordinary with his hypnotism.
In fact, I have a feeling that his demos are preprepped before his demonstration. I discovered that I used to have one of his books a long while ago.

Here is his shock therapy: which needed prep for it to work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-0VHQyFm8

I'm not sure you quite understand the beauty of this video

The guy on the chair was expecting his hands coming together. This is very important. This was the point of Kappas' introduction: to give the guy that sense of expectation. His conscious mind tried to guide the motion of his hands therefore Kappas clapped his hands together, putting him in a state of shock

Hence, his fall.

Spy's shouldn't last 1hour in the hands of a skillful hypnotist. Don't you think so?

You spoke about intense concentration. Who needed it the hypnoist or the person needing hypnosis?

I'm not an expert at hypnotism but shouldn't it be the hypnotist? But these things aren't necessarily as black-and-white as you're painting them.

Jim's Mum? She DIED!
And Jim was angry and disappointed in scoan. That was the main reason why he went in the first place. It wasn't about himself, it was about his mum.

Oh, well. Now isn't that a shock!

Jim was delivered but they couldn't save his poor mom.

SMDH

shadeyinka:

I agree with you, there are mental illness like schizophrenia where a person seem to see, hear or feel things that don't appear real to others. Yes!

Could Jim had been mentally sick? How come it got diagnosed in the church and never before or after that time. Schizophrenia even with the best medical help need several years of therapy before it is cured.

Moreover, how come these people are manifesting characteristics not in medical books

Check out this one also. It sounds like a multiple personality disorder. Not sure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RuCLB6vM3M

[img]https://media./images/9c5aa3dca36cb2d490c744adbc54c6bd/tenor.gif[/img]
Not gonna lie, i actually fell of my chair laughing at this video

Notice how the "demons" are polite enough to answer each question. They also happen to know which camera is recording them. And what's up with his voice? Was it Mickey Mouse that possessed him? Oh my days

I'd still take this video with a pinch of salt. This guy may just have mental illness & these clowns are just taking the piss and using him for show.

SMDH

IAmSabrina:

I'm not sure you quite understand the beauty of this video

The guy on the chair was expecting his hands coming together. This is very important. This was the point of Kappas' introduction: to give the guy that sense of expectation. His conscious mind tried to guide the motion of his hands therefore Kappas clapped his hands together, putting him in a state of shock

Hence, his fall.

I'm not an expert at hypnotism but shouldn't it be the hypnotist? But these things aren't necessarily as black-and-white as you're painting them.


Oh, well. Now isn't that a shock!

Jim was delivered but they couldn't save his poor mom.

SMDH

Your response shows you don't know anything about hypnosis.
1. First suggest was a command (tons willing subject) put out your hands..
2. The second was a suggestion : imagine a magnet between your hands made of steel
3. At this point the second was reinforced by giving a subtle command: the magnet is pulling your hands.

At this point the man is struggling to keep his hands separated then SUDDEN BANG!

The man went into sleep even before he was commanded to sleep!

This is a proof that he had been preprogrammed before the class for there is no way he could have known what was expected. After the bang, he could have howled as a wolf or backed like a dog or do whatever he had been programmed to do.

Watch the clip again and tell me how the man knew he should sleep before the command was given.

We'll Jim's mum died: nothing anyone could do about that probably becaus he time was up...no one can answer for that. Don't forget that no man of God can by himself do any miracle except he is a Satanist.

But the issue isn't about Jim's mum for all of us we die. The issue is the question: What happened to Jim Iyke?

IAmSabrina:

[img]https://media./images/9c5aa3dca36cb2d490c744adbc54c6bd/tenor.gif[/img]
Not gonna lie, i actually fell of my chair laughing at this video

Notice how the "demons" are polite enough to answer each question. They also happen to know which camera is recording them. And what's up with his voice? Was it Mickey Mouse that possessed him? Oh my days

I'd still take this video with a pinch of salt. This guy may just have mental illness & these clowns are just taking the piss and using him for show.

SMDH

What do you expect?
That the demons would behave like that in the exorcist movie?
Pls watch again and show that the demonized was posing for the cameras

The nearest you can place it in real medical terms is multiple personality disorder.

Let me help you understand what's happening behind the scenes. You have at least two demons with different personalities answering the questions.

I wished you watched it to his testimony time to make your conclusion as per mental illness.

If this is really a mental illness, what would you think is a correct diagnosis for this one-time misbehaviour triggered by someone attempting to lay hands on the young man?

IAmSabrina:

I'm not sure you quite understand the beauty of this video

The guy on the chair was expecting his hands coming together. This is very important. This was the point of Kappas' introduction: to give the guy that sense of expectation. His conscious mind tried to guide the motion of his hands therefore Kappas clapped his hands together, putting him in a state of shock

Hence, his fall.

I'm not an expert at hypnotism but shouldn't it be the hypnotist? But these things aren't necessarily as black-and-white as you're painting them.


Oh, well. Now isn't that a shock!

Jim was delivered but they couldn't save his poor mom.

SMDH

Your response shows you don't know anything about hypnosis.
1. First suggest was a command (tons willing subject) put out your hands..
2. The second was a suggestion : imagine a magnet between your hands made of steel
3. At this point the second suggestion was reinforced by giving a subtle command: the magnet is pulling your hands.

At this point the man is struggling to keep his hands separated then SUDDEN BANG!

The man went into sleep even before he was commanded to sleep!

This is a proof that he had been preprogrammed before the class for there is no way he could have known what was expected. After the bang, he could have howled as a wolf or backed like a dog or do whatever he had been programmed to do.

Watch the clip again and tell me how the man knew he should sleep before the command was given.

We'll Jim's mum died: nothing anyone could do about that probably becaus he time was up...no one can answer for that. Don't forget that no man of God can by himself do any miracle except he is a Satanist.

But the issue isn't about Jim's mum for all of us we die. The issue is the question: What happened to Jim Iyke?

shadeyinka:

Your response shows you don't know anything about hypnosis.
1. First suggest was a command (tons willing subject) put out your hands..
2. The second was a suggestion : imagine a magnet between your hands made of steel
3. At this point the second was reinforced by giving a subtle command: the magnet is pulling your hands.

At this point the man is struggling to keep his hands separated then SUDDEN BANG!

The man went into sleep even before he was commanded to sleep!

This is a proof that he had been preprogrammed before the class for there is no way he could have known what was expected. After the bang, he could have howled as a wolf or backed like a dog or do whatever he had been programmed to do.

Watch the clip again and tell me how the man knew he should sleep before the command was given.

I've already stated that my knowledge on hypnotism isn't the best, i think that much was established.

Besides i dont see the distinction between what you're saying here and what i've been saying few posts back

Oh and i don't know if you noticed but @italics is pretty much a good explanation for most cases of "deliverance"

We'll Jim's mum died: nothing anyone could do about that probably becaus he time was up...no one can answer for that. Don't forget that no man of God can by himself do any miracle except he is a Satanist.

Riiiiiight

But the issue isn't about Jim's mum for all of us we die. The issue is the question: What happened to Jim Iyke?

Well, what happened to him?

IAmSabrina:

I've already stated that my knowledge on hypnotism isn't the best, i think that much was established.

Oh and i don't know if you noticed but @italics is pretty much a good explanation for most cases of "deliverance"


Riiiiiight


Well, what happened to him?

Well you know that's not true. Still using Jim as an example: when do you think the prep was done knowing that Jim entered the church reluctantly.

Since you've not really witnessed any deliverance, how would you know how it is done.?

If you Sabrina doesn't want to be hypnotized, no one can force you.

I challenge you to watch several hypnosis cases and compare it with deliverance. The difference is glaring.

What happened to Jim Iyke isn't hypnotism: it is something else. You suggested a medical issue but does it have a name?

shadeyinka:

Well you know that's not true. Still using Jim as an example: when do you think the prep was done knowing that Jim entered the church reluctantly.

Since you've not really witnessed any deliverance, how would you know how it is done.?

If you Sabrina doesn't want to be hypnotized, no one can force you.

I challenge you to watch several hypnosis cases and compare it with deliverance. The difference is glaring.

What happened to Jim Iyke isn't hypnotism: it is something else. You suggested a medical issue but does it have a name?

Methinks you're looking for needles in a bundle of hay honestly. This thread ultimately fails if you want my honest opinion

You'll notice that people undergoing exorcisms often go into fits. But in the video you showed me, those fits do not resemble epileptic seizures; they resemble the kinds of seizures people have when they're faking a seizure, completely with arching their backs off the ground and other things that are not typical of "real" fits. SMDH

A practitioner of psychiatry or psychology would be able to explain well enough how mental illness might resemble demonic possession, particularly in susceptible individuals, and might even go on to talk about how potent the placebo effect is. Both of which would be good reasons to dismiss both demonic possession and exorcism in one fell swoop. My knowledge on psychiatry & psychology is not as sophisticated so you're talking to the wrong person.

Truth is, Shadeyinka, if you believe that demonic possession is real, you'll need to prove it by showing us demons exist. As for Jim's memory loss and "deliverance incident", i believe psychology majors could have an answer for you

What sort of nonsense is this? Just when you think you've seen it all with these theists. If evolution were an individual, I would beat the living daylight out of him/her. Clearly his/her work is not "mentally complete" in certain people. Why?

Oh my. Oya OP, come let's go to a psychiatric hospital.

IAmSabrina:
I've seen something today
[img]https://media1./images/55f28bb382e5a671f755f156d08ffa24/tenor.gif[/img]

Hi sabrina!

I actually thought it was you who posted this thread, hence my response.

Sorry about the mix up.

p.s. Apart from that though everything I said still stands.

IAmSabrina:

Methinks you're looking for needles in a bundle of hay honestly. This thread ultimately fails if you want my honest opinion

You'll notice that people undergoing exorcisms often go into fits. But in the video you showed me, those fits do not resemble epileptic seizures; they resemble the kinds of seizures people have when they're faking a seizure, completely with arching their backs off the ground and other things that are not typical of "real" fits. SMDH

First demonic manifestations is not a fit. Neither is it a seizure; for can a person under seizure speak? I see where you are going: if it's a kind of medical condition, it must by now have a name. Since you are fairly sure it doesn't seem to match what is known in the medical world, then it must be a faking.

However, our celebrity Jim Iyke wasn't faking it? Or was he?

IAmSabrina:

A practitioner of psychiatry or psychology would be able to explain well enough how mental illness might resemble demonic possession, particularly in susceptible individuals, and might even go on to talk about how potent the placebo effect is. Both of which would be good reasons to dismiss both demonic possession and exorcism in one fell swoop. My knowledge on psychiatry & psychology is not as sophisticated so you're talking to the wrong person.

Truth is, Shadeyinka, if you believe that demonic possession is real, you'll need to prove it by showing us demons exist. As for Jim's memory loss and "deliverance incident", i believe psychology majors could have an answer for you

I wish you know an atheist psychologist / psychiatrist who could go profile the techniques used by these churches and their mentally imbalanced sick actors willing to roll-on the ground for money.

For your information, some demonic manifestations during Deliverances are so calm and quiet: you may want to think it's a normal conversation between two people.

And then, you resort to "show us" rhetoric again: do spirits have bodies? Or, you want real demons to act Hollywood dramas of slamming doors and breaking glasses for you to know.

Here is a quiet Deliverance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSHWAyqabs

I beg you to watch this one: just one of the things demons do to humans (not violent in anyway but an eye sore.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBupVwHgW80

This above has a medical name.

Martinez39:
What sort of nonsense is this? Just when you think you've seen it all with these theists. If evolution were an individual, I would beat the living daylight out of him/her. Clearly his/her work is not "mentally complete" in certain people. Why?

Oh my. Oya OP, come let's go to a psychiatric hospital.

And do you know why is is called deliverance?

Because a demonic "virus" has to be evicted from a normal human being.

Do computer manufacturer deliberately infect their computers with virus?

You complain "..in certain people?!"

Why not? Do all computer suffer viral infections? When the manufactures rules are broken, what do you expect?

shadeyinka:
Can you please watch this and let's discuss after.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PQ_Ip-zf1M

Is this a fabrication?
A good acting by an actor?

Or

Another evidence that the spirit world exist.

IamSabrina :I expect lots of questions from you. Shalom!

why didnt she turn to a dog? I have seen many tb Joshua's videos. Ib one, a man claimed to have changed into a tiger and in another a snake yet all i see are humans trying to behave like these animals and most times the acting is poor

shadeyinka:

First demonic manifestations is not a fit. Neither is it a seizure; for can a person under seizure speak? I see where you are going: if it's a kind of medical condition, it must by now have a name. Since you are fairly sure it doesn't seem to match what is known in the medical world, then it must be a faking.

However, our celebrity Jim Iyke wasn't faking it? Or was he?


I wish you know an atheist psychologist / psychiatrist who could go profile the techniques used by these churches and their mentally imbalanced sick actors willing to roll-on the ground for money.

For your information, some demonic manifestations during Deliverances are so calm and quiet: you may want to think it's a normal conversation between two people.

And then, you resort to "show us" rhetoric again: do spirits have bodies? Or, you want real demons to act Hollywood dramas of slamming doors and breaking glasses for you to know.

Here is a quiet Deliverance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSHWAyqabs

I beg you to watch this one: just one of the things demons do to humans (not violent in anyway but an eye sore.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBupVwHgW80

This above has a medical name.

every video you posted lack supernaturality. These are just people acting out what they think demonic possession shld look and sound like. Why cant they do something extra ordinary besides making noise and shining their eyes like people taking a tuber up their asses

IAmSabrina:

Methinks you're looking for needles in a bundle of hay honestly. This thread ultimately fails if you want my honest opinion

You'll notice that people undergoing exorcisms often go into fits. But in the video you showed me, those fits do not resemble epileptic seizures; they resemble the kinds of seizures people have when they're faking a seizure, completely with arching their backs off the ground and other things that are not typical of "real" fits. SMDH

A practitioner of psychiatry or psychology would be able to explain well enough how mental illness might resemble demonic possession, particularly in susceptible individuals, and might even go on to talk about how potent the placebo effect is. Both of which would be good reasons to dismiss both demonic possession and exorcism in one fell swoop. My knowledge on psychiatry & psychology is not as sophisticated so you're talking to the wrong person.

Truth is, Shadeyinka, if you believe that demonic possession is real, you'll need to prove it by showing us demons exist. As for Jim's memory loss and "deliverance incident", i believe psychology majors could have an answer for you

. Would be more convincing if she had turned into a dog on camera and before everyone not pretending to be a dog. When such happens then i think we wld have something serious to discuss.

HardMirror:
Would be more convincing if she had turned into a dog on camera and before everyone not pretending to be a dog. When such happens then i think we wld have something serious to discuss.

The best and only sensible comment so far on this thread. It made my day, brought a chuckle out of me and so deserved my liking it

MuttleyLaff:
The best and only sensible comment so far on this thread. It made my day, brought a chuckle out of me and so deserved my liking it

i once saw a video on youtube titled "man turns to a tiger while being delivered by tb joshua" i rushed and opened the link and watched the whole video expecting to see him change but all he did was crawl on all fours and was roaring like a pussy. Same with useless stories of people turning to snake and the story would be backed up with a photoshoped picture. Geez... christians are gullible

HardMirror:
i once saw a video on youtube titled "man turns to a tiger while being delivered by tb joshua" i rushed and opened the link and watched the whole video expecting to see him change but all he did was crawl on all fours and was roaring like a pussy. Same with useless stories of people turning to snake and the story would be backed up with a photoshoped picture. Geez... christians are gullible

The bible in Matthew 24:24 says:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."

shadeyinka, is not alone, he is in good company of the likes of petra1 joagbaje, who also famzings TB Joshua. One day monkey go go market, no go return back be TB Joshua own

MuttleyLaff:
The bible in Matthew 24:24 says:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."

shadeyinka, is not alone, he is in good company of the likes of petra1 joagbaje, who also famzings TB Joshua. One day monkey go go market, no go return back be TB Joshua own

issorite

HardMirror:
why didnt she turn to a dog? I have seen many tb Joshua's videos. Ib one, a man claimed to have changed into a tiger and in another a snake yet all i see are humans trying to behave like these animals and most times the acting is poor

This coming from my dear and only Hardmirror, I am disappointed!

Why? Because you know the Bible more than most other atheist here and I don't know if you have a single case like that you describe in the Bible. The thing you describe occurs only in horror movies.

"One man claimed to have turned into a ....."

Is that not a deliberate misinformation?

The uploader of the video captioned it as: "Man turned into Lion" is more appropriate.

HardMirror:
every video you posted lack supernaturality. These are just people acting out what they think demonic possession shld look and sound like. Why cant they do something extra ordinary besides making noise and shining their eyes like people taking a tuber up their asses

All are acting is your conclusion!?

It would be terrific if hardmirror can go to scoan, collect evidence of payment and put to shame permanently the ministry of deliverance.

Is it even feasible to pay almost 50 people every week to act and you won't have several dozens of blackmailings every year. I hope you know that it's difficult to recycle deliverance acting.

And Jim Iyke too was paid!? This ministry must be desperate!

MuttleyLaff:
The bible in Matthew 24:24 says:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."

shadeyinka, is not alone, he is in good company of the likes of petra1 joagbaje, who also famzings TB Joshua. One day monkey go go market, no go return back be TB Joshua own

I don't know what you are up to. Are you an atheist?

shadeyinka:
I don't know what you are up to. Are you an atheist?

Stale question.
"Bi oo ba mọ okun, shey oo je iyọ lọbe ni, bi oo ba tie mọ erin, shey oo gbọhun erin ni?" sighs.
Loosely translated means "Even if you dont know about oceans, havent you had salt in food yet. If you dont know an elephant, cant you decipher an elephant's trumpet sound hmm?"

I am not an atheist, and please stop keep on repeatedly asking me this tired old question you keep on doing asking me

MuttleyLaff:
Stale question.
"Bi oo ba mọ okun, shey oo je iyọ lọbe ni, bi oo ba tie mọ erin, shey oo gbọhun erin ni?" sighs.
Loosely translated means "Even if you dont know about oceans, havent you had salt in food yet. If you dont know an elephant, cant you decipher an elephant's trumpet sound hmm?"

I am not an atheist, and please stop keep on repeatedly asking me this tired old question you keep on doing asking me

You sound bitter: I don't know why?

Who are you then? What's your belief?

Maybe you are confusing some of us.

shadeyinka:

Any evidence that it is an acting?

Or could it be that you are obstinately not considering consistencies and inconsistencies of the poor acting.

If I may ask, why do you consider it a poor acting?

Wait, you have not realized that he is demon possessed? Demons hides and tries by all means to make their host deny their existence

NPComplete:


It is a publicity stunt for SCOAN. Those wankers are fake.

The mum is the reason why he was willing to do the stunt. That and the money SCOAN must have paid him. That guy is shady. And TB Joshua is worse. The only redeeming quality Joshua has is his philanthropy.

So, when he came out crying later that he was used, how much did he say he was paid to play the part?

Shepherd00:

Wait, you have not realized that he is demon possessed? Demons hides and tries by all means to make their host deny their existence

Of course, I agree with you.

Even though demons are in control, once in a while sanity speaks reason into their heads. Peradventure God will use this to open their eyes. Up till now, there are only two very lame excuse: one it is an acting and two it is hypnosis/mental problem.

NPComplete:


The reason why I can't even take u seriously is when u believe money couldn't have been involved because the mother had cancer. Lol. People kill their mothers for money and u are here acting as if Jim Iyke is not a human being. Just look at u reasoning like a gnat. So because his mother is sick he couldn't possibly try to profit from it? U know this how? Do u even know the relationship he had with his mum before then? Lol. What if he saw the acting in the church as a way to recoup some of the money he had spent on his mothers illness?

Your inability to even consider the possibility is what makes ur argument weak.

And u know Jim Iyke is in his own right comfortable, how? Because he is an actor? What kind of pedestrian thinking is this?

I still maintain Jim Iyke was paid. You can't expect him to tell us he was paid but I am sure it is likely he was.

Two bolded contradicts you.
1. You maintain that he was paid (Certain)
2. You are sure that 'He was likely paid.

Which one is it? He was certainly paid or he was likely paid?

MuttleyLaff:
The best and only sensible comment so far on this thread. It made my day, brought a chuckle out of me and so deserved my liking it

You don't believe in demon possession too?

shadeyinka:

I don't know what you are up to. Are you an atheist?

It's hard to place that guy. He quotes the Bible but he doesn't believe in the Workings of the Holy Spirit which begins with Holy Ghost baptism evidenced in speaking in tongues. He does not believe in miracles. He doesn't believe in Tithing and now he doesn't believe in demon possession, but he stands firmly for HOMOSEXUALITY.

What a Christian.