₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
biblical witnesses contradicted themselves. Which one should we believe?.


..........


exactly. Now, they are telling us that there were eyewitnesses regarding crucifixion . Qur'an tells us Jesus was raised up to God. How he was raised is irrelevant to us. Quran goes further to say all the so called eyewitnesses know nothing about crucifixion/ascension but they only follow doubts and conjectures. But since op insisted there were eyewitnesses, and we looked into their Bible regarding accounts of eyewitnesses, it is obvious their stories contradicted one another which proves Quran right (that they followers nothing but conjectures). So his question is really none of our business to answer. Onus lies in CHRISTIANs which of the accounts of the gospel is correct. Mark contradicted John. John contradicted Luke. Luke contradicted Mark. Which story should we accept as truth?.

Now I have helped you to think since you failed woefully to read my posts. I even posted illustrated pictures to get op to think.

since you appeared to be a Christian, this issue at hand is about Jews killed your god according to Bible. This is a known fact which you people tried to twist today. Live Muhammad (saw) out of this. Since your Bible could not get itself together, muslims have every right to admit biblical account is false. So this nonesense about Quran came 600yrs later is in itself irrelevant.

Why misrepresent the truth!?

You have asked me the about the bolded and I think I have answered you. You insinuated that my argument is that the Bible provides evidence to the Crucifixion of Jesus and I told you that it was too obvious a route for me to follow. I even told you exactly my thrust and yet you still come to misrepresent the truth by cleverly avoiding my Monika and using the OP instead.

The question was:
Did Allah take up Jesus to the heavens in the Presence of some Disciples or in Secret?
And my argument is:
If it was in secret, then Allah fooled Mary, the Apostles and the disciples in conjunction with the Jews.
If it was in the presence of some of the Disciples, why would they then manufacturer a shameful and excruciating death for their Master?

You know that you have once accused me of using Christian Prince Arguments and I told you I hardly even knew him. You have probably not seen anyone use this line of argument and hence, you have no ready internet answer. Even though, there were Evidences in the bible, I chose not to go through the line of argument. Don't misrepresent me again.

Please see attachment as proof: don't impose your imagination on others. I know what the OP is gonna say now became the OP said....

Cc: nutarious:

shadeyinka:
Why misrepresent the truth!?

You have asked me the about the bolded and I think I have answered you. You insinuated that my argument is that the Bible provides evidence to the Crucifixion of Jesus and I told you that it was too obvious a route for me to follow. I even told you exactly my thrust and yet you still come to misrepresent the truth by cleverly avoiding my Monika and using the OP instead.

The question was:
Did Allah take up Jesus to the heavens in the Presence of some Disciples or in Secret?
And my argument is:
If it was in secret, then Allah fooled Mary, the Apostles and the disciples in conjunction with the Jews.
If it was in the presence of some of the Disciples, why would they then manufacturer a shameful and excruciating death for their Master?

You know that you have once accused me of using Christian Prince Arguments and I told you I hardly even knew him. You have probably not seen anyone use this line of argument and hence, you have no ready internet answer. Even though, there were Evidences in the bible, I chose not to go through the line of argument. Don't misrepresent me again.

Please see attachment as proof: don't impose your imagination on others. I know what the OP is gonna say now became the OP said....

Cc: nutarious:

my post was not meant for you. I no longer need your responses. You have just repeated same dumb question and you insinuated answers for yourself. You have preconceived notion. Why should I eat my precious time with you?.


Meanwhile,


This is mosque of Jesus in Dubai (1st pic)

This is mosque of Jesus in Pennsylvania, US (2nd pix)

This is mosque of Jesus in Queens New York (3rd pix)


So keep wailing

Empiree:
my post was not meant for you. I no longer need your responses. You have just repeated same dumb question and you insinuated answers for yourself. You have preconceived notion. Why should I eat my precious time with you?.


Meanwhile,


This is mosque of Jesus in Dubai (1st pic)

This is mosque of Jesus in Pennsylvania, US(2nd pix

This is mosque of Jesus in Queens New York (3rd pix)


So keep wailing

Good Morning my Brother.
Surprised you are awake.

Yes. The post wasn't for me BUT you referenced me as OP while speaking that which isn't true. That requires a response doesn't it?

Empiree:
biblical witnesses contradicted themselves. Which one should we believe?.



exactly. Now, they are telling us that there were eyewitnesses regarding crucifixion. Qur'an tells us Jesus was raised up to God. How he was raised is irrelevant to us. Quran goes further to say all the so called eyewitnesses know nothing about crucifixion/ascension but they only follow doubts and conjectures. But since op insisted there were eyewitnesses , and we looked into their Bible regarding accounts of eyewitnesses, it is obvious their stories contradicted one another which proves Quran right (that they followers nothing but conjectures). So his question is really none of our business to answer. Onus lies in CHRISTIANs which of the accounts of the gospel is correct. Mark contradicted John. John contradicted Luke. Luke contradicted Mark. Which story should we accept as truth?.

Now I have helped you to think since you failed woefully to read my posts. I even posted illustrated pictures to get op to think

.

Nice pictures and architectures though!


AND JESUS SAID: IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS!
John 14:15

shadeyinka:
Good Morning my Brother.
Surprised you are awake.

Yes. The post wasn't for me BUT you referenced me as OP while speaking that which isn't true. That requires a response doesn't it?





Nice pictures and architectures though!


AND JESUS SAID: IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS!
John 14:15

your brother?. You must be sick.

After insulting Allah and my Prophet and you called me brother?. Seriously?. SMH


And, commandment of Jesus first is obedient to Allah by worshipping him alone. Not calling human being God or son of God. That's crazy. Who believes that except zalimun.

Empiree:
your brother?. You must be sick.

After insulting Allah and my Prophet and you called me brother?. Seriously?. SMH


And, commandment of Jesus first is obedient to Allah by worshipping him alone. Not calling human being God or son of God. That's crazy. Who believes that except zalimun.

I would neither insult Prophet Mohammed or Allah in any of my posts. This doesn't mean I believe in them though. But far be it for me to insult them.

If the Son set you free, you shall be free indeed!
In My Father's House, there are many mansions...
Love your Enemies and Pray for those who spitefully use you..

You don't know the commands of Jesus!
Whatever you know is a hearsay 600 years from the giver of the commands.

Like in Paradise, there isn't marriage nor giving in marriage.

shadeyinka:
I would neither insult Prophet Mohammed or Allah in any of my posts. This doesn't mean I believe in them though. But far be it for me to insult them.

If the Son set you free, you shall be free indeed!
In My Father's House, there are many mansions...
Love your Enemies and Pray for those who spitefully use you..

You don't know the commands of Jesus!
Whatever you know is a hearsay 600 years from the giver of the commands.

Like in Paradise, there isn't marriage nor giving in marriage.

https://www.nairaland.com/3633308/seeing-angels-malaika/2

There, ^^^ you will learn a lot you never thought about and get yourself some "Islamic energies"

It is boring talking to you.

Actually that's the difference between story book and revealed book.
Story book tries to narrate an event even when the writer is not there, while revealed book gives it exactly the way it was revealed.
Im looking for the day my Christian folks will wise up.

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF THE FOOLS.

Empiree:
https://www.nairaland.com/3633308/seeing-angels-malaika/2

There, ^^^ you will learn a lot you never thought about and get yourself some "Islamic energies"

It is boring talking to you.

In spite of the above, I still Love you Bro!
I'll check out your link.
I love knowledge!

shadeyinka:
The Christian faith can be summarised by these
1. All human beings are sinner by nature
2. No human being can by his own righteousness meet the requirements of the righteousness of Heaven (God)
3. In spite of our weakness, God LOVES us so much to pay for us the price/cost of righteousness to make paradise through a perfect sacrifice.
4. The sacrifice is Jesus Christ who is the LAMB of God who takes away our sin
5. Each person who want to go to paradise would use his mouth and heart to receive the Free GIFT of God by ASKING!
6. Anyone who has received Gods gift is called Born Again. As in adopted into God's Family and is given the seal of sonship of God
7. Anyone who is born again is required to live in obedience to Gods rule of Righteousness AND to serve God with his gifts and abilities.

You will see that Islam REJECTS all these above.


And look at what the Bible says

I can only say i am amazed. An Idol worshiper sacrifices a lamb or even a human in ritual to his idol. And the Bible ascribe this to God. No Prophet in the Bible preached human sacrifice. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc.
Christianity is a confirmed Polytheistic religion!

For your info, the Bible cannot say anything. Who wrote the acts of apostle? That is the person talking!

Empiree:
https://www.nairaland.com/3633308/seeing-angels-malaika/2

There, ^^^ you will learn a lot you never thought about and get yourself some "Islamic energies"

It is boring talking to you.

I have just started reading your link. I hope we can talk about it latter (no arguments at all). I have some little experience with Jinns an Angels too. And Ruqya!

malvisguy212:
2 Corinthians 6:14-17
(KJV)
Be ye not unequally yoked together with
unbelievers: for what fellowship hath
righteousness with unrighteousness? AND WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT AND DARKNESS ?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
or what part hath he that believeth with an
infidel? ANS WHAT AGREEMENT HATH THE TEMPLE OF GOD WITH IDOLS? for ye are the temple of the
living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in
them, and walk in them; and I will be their
God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them,
and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and
touch not the unclean thing; and I will
receive you.

IF you cannot see Anything wrong in this then it mean your heart is sealed with hot iron .

by the way is it not against the Quran, associated partner with Allah ?

Kindly rewrite all this. I hate it more when you quote those letters for me as scriptures.Who are the Corinthians? Are they Nigerians? Abeg?

And to answer you finally! Is it not hypocrisy when you associate paganism to Islam fighting tooth and nail to establish your evidences.

Islam believes in worship Allah only without partners!

But Christianity believes God use His son as a Lamb sacrifice to redeem humans from sin.

An idol worshiper sacrifices animals and even humans to his idol.

Who is close to paganism? He who worship one God or he who serves a three in one God(s)?

shadeyinka:
For once, you were not afraid of speaking the truth in answering a question. Keep it up and God bless you. Amen

You should have brought out the lies i posted before.

Rashduct4luv:
I can only say i am amazed. An Idol worshiper sacrifices a lamb or even a human in ritual to his idol. And the Bible ascribe this to God. No Prophet in the Bible preached human sacrifice. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc.
Christianity is a confirmed Polytheistic religion!

For your info, the Bible cannot say anything. Who wrote the acts of apostle? That is the person talking!

You better read the earlier revealed books.

Let me furnish you with a chapter, probably you'll learn.

Isa 53:1-12:
"(c) Lord, who bath believed this report of ours, and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been made manifest? We have made proclamation as a child before him: as a root in a thirsty soil, he hath no appearance, nor glory. We have seen him; and he hath neither appearance nor beauty: but his appearance is mean and defective beyond the sons of men. Being a man in affliction and acquainted with grief, because his countenance was dejected, he was despised and disesteemed. This man beareth away our sins; and for us he is in sorrow: And we considered him as being in trouble and under a stroke and in affliction. But he was wounded for our sins, and afflicted for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon him; by his bruises we are healed. We all like sheep had strayed; every man wandered in his way: and the Lord delivered him up for our sins : and he, on account of his affliction, openeth not his mouth. He was led as a sheep to be slaughtered. And as a lamb before its shearer is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. In this humiliation his legal trial was taken away. Who will declare his manner of life. (J) Because his life is taken from the earth; for the transgressions of my people he is led to death; therefore for his funeral I will give up the wicked, and the rich for his death. Because he committed no iniquity, nor practised guile with his mouth, and the Lord determined to purify him from this stroke: when his soul shall be given up for a sin offering ; of you he shall see a seed which shall prolong their days. More over it is the determination of the Lord to remove him from the trouble of his soul; to shew him light and fashion him for knowledge; to justify the Righteous One who is serving many well, when he shall bear away their sins; therefore he shall inherit many and divide the spoils of the strong. (p) Because his soul was delivered up to death and he was numbered among transgressors and bore away the sins of many and on account of their iniquities was delivered up;"

If you are wise, you'll understand the prophecy of the Messiah,!

Animals cannot sin!
Humans are sinners by their nature!
Humans can Never thus be an acceptable sacrifice!
But, the blood of Animals is never equivalent to that of man. Old covenant sacrifices were therefore symbolic!



And look at what the Bible says


Act4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved



Let me ask you again:
What is the spiritual significance of ANIMAL SACRIFICE!?
Why did Allah require the slaughtering of animals?

Rashduct4luv:
You should have brought out the lies i posted before.

Being evasive of answering a question because of the truth you don't want to know was what I accused you of.

shadeyinka:
No Sir! I am honestly being sincere and you are the one using a double standard.

You started it, by insinuating that the Bible is simply a collection of texts by "some lying men'" whereas, the Qur'an was "given to you by the perfect Allah". This is a very serious aligation that needs to be scrutinized and verified.



I wanted to hear from you how Allah "gave you" the Qur'an to see how different from how the bible scriptures were "revealed".

Of a truth, even though by definition and ascribed attributes, Allah and Jehovah seem to be the same, BUT they are NOT the same Personalities. In other words Allah is not Jehovah and Jehovah is not Allah. The Question it brings up is : who then is the real Creator and Sustainer of the Universe?

The bolded above is the hard truth whether we like it or not! Or as a Muslim, do you think Allah is Jehovah?

If there are discrepancies between Allah's words and any known or unknown texts or even science I will stick to his words as the absolute truth. Allah knows all and does not make mistakes.
Yes some of the writers Bible might have lied, or, at least, exaggerated some of the stories a tad bit. This is also what I believe of our ahadith, which were also collected by mere mortals.
Everyone, including Christians, knows the story of the revelation of Qur'an but not everyone is mandated to believe it, provided they are not Muslims.
Allah is Jehovah, Jehovah is Allah. These are even synonymous terms in some dictionaries. Can you say Olohun/Olorun is different from God? The problem is with you Christians. You don't really understand the nature of God and that's why you have come up with all sorts of misconceptions about him leading to false worship.
Allah says: if you don't know me how can you worship me.

shadeyinka:
Example:
Trinity of God

One of the biggest doctrinal misconceptions. Also God's fatherhood. Blimey!!

shadeyinka:
The Christian faith can be summarised by these
1. All human beings are sinner by nature
2. No human being can by his own righteousness meet the requirements of the righteousness of Heaven (God)
3. In spite of our weakness, God LOVES us so much to pay for us the price/cost of righteousness to make paradise through a perfect sacrifice.
4. The sacrifice is Jesus Christ who is the LAMB of God who takes away our sin
5. Each person who want to go to paradise would use his mouth and heart to receive the Free GIFT of God by ASKING!
6. Anyone who has received Gods gift is called Born Again. As in adopted into God's Family and is given the seal of sonship of God
7. Anyone who is born again is required to live in obedience to Gods rule of Righteousness AND to serve God with his gifts and abilities.

You will see that Islam REJECTS all these above.


And look at what the Bible says

Everything up there is drivel but No 7 and possibly No 5 (if made clearer)
You've all been throwing the word logical upanda. Is the No 1 not illogicality at its nadir?

shadeyinka:
You better read the earlier revealed books.

shadeyinka:
Let me furnish you with a chapter, probably you'll learn.

Animals cannot sin!
Humans are sinners by their nature!
Humans can Never thus be an acceptable sacrifice!
But, the blood of Animals is never equivalent to that of man. Old covenant sacrifices were therefore symbolic!

shadeyinka:
And look at what the Bible says

Bible no get mouth to talk. Tell us who is talking in the Bible.


Act4:12

shadeyinka:
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved

By whose name was people saved before Jesus was born?

shadeyinka:
Let me ask you again:
What is the spiritual significance of ANIMAL SACRIFICE!?
Why did Allah require the slaughtering of animals?

Same reason Abraham slaughtered the sacrifice. He was never a Polytheist.


Allah says:

"Their meat will not reach Allah, nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good." (Qur'an 22: 34-37)

Rashduct4luv:
Allah says:

"Their meat will not reach Allah, nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good." (Qur'an 22: 34-37)

Only the true God will speak with so much swagger and authority.

Harkyn92:
Actually that's the difference between story book and revealed book.
Story book tries to narrate an event even when the writer is not there, while revealed book gives it exactly the way it was revealed.
Im looking for the day my Christian folks will wise up.

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF THE FOOLS.

Do not be like them

Empiree:
And, commandment of Jesus first is obedient to Allah by worshipping him alone. Not calling human being God or son of God. That's crazy. Who believes that except zalimun.

They are confused. Isn't it obvious they are? If not, why call a mere mortal, who can't do nothing on his own, God? Why ascribe fatherhood to Allah SWT, who is beyond the need of flesh ?

aadoiza:
If there are discrepancies between Allah's words and any known or unknown texts or even science I will stick to his words as the absolute truth. Allah knows all and does not make mistakes.
Yes some of the writers Bible might have lied, or, at least, exaggerated some of the stories a tad bit. This is also what I believe of our ahadith, which were also collected by mere mortals.
Everyone, including Christians, knows the story of the revelation of Qur'an but not everyone is mandated to believe it, provided they are not Muslims.
Allah is Jehovah, Jehovah is Allah. These are even synonymous terms in some dictionaries. Can you say Olohun/Olorun is different from God? The problem is with you Christians. You don't really understand the nature of God and that's why you have come up with all sorts of misconceptions about him leading to false worship.
Allah says: if you don't know me how can you worship me.

You see the problem!

Gal1:8-9
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Islam is another message hence the outright rejection by Christians.

You are the first Muslim who will attest that you worship Jehovah!

Mind you, I am not using the language equivalence of
Allah = God, God=Allah
Or
Allah = Olorun, Olorun = Allah
I asked is Allah = Jehovah and Jehovah= Allah?

The hate of Muslims towards Jews/Israel seem to say otherwise. For Jehovah is the God of Israel!

aadoiza:
One of the biggest doctrinal misconceptions. Also God's fatherhood. Blimey!!

If you don't understand the concept of Trinity, ask, and I will use Islam to explain it.

aadoiza:
Everything up there is drivel but No 7 and possibly No 5 (if made clearer)
You've all been throwing the word logical upanda. Is the No 1 not illogicality at its nadir?

I do not understand what you mean here. For your sake I didn't use the word logics in my last set of post to you. I guess you are the one obsessed with it!

Please make your question clear and God willing, I will answer you

shadeyinka:
The most important creed in the Christian faith is that Jesus was Crucified, Died, was Buried and Rose from the death on the third day. It is impossible to be a Christian if an iota of the above is denied. Its like saying can one be a muslim and yet deny either the oneness of Allah or that Mohammed is the prophet of allah.

Salvation itself is impossible without the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus: for Jesus is the sacrifice and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

If the Qur'an contradicts the Bible on this important issue, it is either
1. The Source of the Bible and the Qur'an is completely different (Allah is different from Jehovah)
2. One of the two books is presenting a deliberate Falsehood and Misinformation that leads people to Hell fire.

Qur’an, 4:157-158
That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

Muslims would rather dodge discussions on the claim of the Qur'an that
1. Jesus wasnt killed
2. Jesus wasnt Crucified
3. Jesus was taken bodily to God in heaven


This is because every excuse they have thought of raises extremely difficult issues which they would rather sweep under the carpet.

Muslims can be divided into two broad groups according to their understanding of this problem
1. The Ahmadias:
The Ahmadias are the Muslims equivalent of the Christians Jehovahs witness.
In clear contradiction of what the Qur'an states, the Ahmadias tried to solve the by enacting the swoon theory. In the swoon theory, Jesus was actually CRUCIFIED but he didnt die: he fainted on the cross. In addition they try to redefine the words crucifixion to mean death rather than a means of causing death.

Then a conspiracy theory was built on the fact that Pilate conspired with the soldiers not to kill Jesus but give an appearance of an execution. That Jesus was put in a cool tomb where he was nursed to health and traveled to india to raise a family. In fact, the Ahmadias have a grave for Jesus invented to prove this.
2. The Traditional Muslims:
This includes almost all other Muslim sects. They all agree with the Qur'an that Jesus wasnt Crucified at all BUT their "replacement/substitution theory" for resolving the controversy and it comes in two flavours
a. Contemporary Muslims:
These ones has seen the logical fallacies in every form of arguments that has been presented by Muslims so that their stance is simply: "Allah knows the best".

With this phrase, they bury their heads in the sand like an ostrich pretending that the problems can go away when the phrase is repeated well often and again an again.
b. Old school Muslims:
These ones goes with the numerous hadiths and tefsirs and thus come to various contradictions even against the supposed nature of Allah.

Some of their conclusions include:
1. Jesus was substituted with Judas
2. One of Jesus's disciples voluntarily submitted himself to die on the cross for Him
3. Someone on the street was confused for Jesus and Crucified in His stead.
4. Allah manufactured someone who was Crucified in the place of Christ.

In all the cases above, Jesus was smuggled bodily to heaven. He will come back to the earth at the end time to kill a one eyed monster call Al Daajjal and he will convert all Christians to muslims (break the crosses) after killing all the Jews(kill the pigs).


Muslims Dodge answering simple obvious question from their theories because it exposes the lack of common logical sense in the position of the Qur'an.

For instance can Muslims explain how Jesus was taken to heaven?
Was it secretly or in the presence of some of the disciples?

They will surely dodge this among others questions like plague!



Rashduct4luv
Empiree

Dodged Thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/5142675/jesus-didnt-die-he-wasnt


https://www.nairaland.com/5142675/jesus-didnt-die-he-wasnt

Why bring Islam into this,if I ask you the time Jesus was crucified, There are two different times inside bible

shadeyinka:
The most important creed in the Christian faith is that Jesus was Crucified, Died, was Buried and Rose from the death on the third day. It is impossible to be a Christian if an iota of the above is denied. Its like saying can one be a muslim and yet deny either the oneness of Allah or that Mohammed is the prophet of allah.

Salvation itself is impossible without the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus: for Jesus is the sacrifice and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

If the Qur'an contradicts the Bible on this important issue, it is either
1. The Source of the Bible and the Qur'an is completely different (Allah is different from Jehovah)
2. One of the two books is presenting a deliberate Falsehood and Misinformation that leads people to Hell fire.

Qur’an, 4:157-158
That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

Muslims would rather dodge discussions on the claim of the Qur'an that
1. Jesus wasnt killed
2. Jesus wasnt Crucified
3. Jesus was taken bodily to God in heaven


This is because every excuse they have thought of raises extremely difficult issues which they would rather sweep under the carpet.

Muslims can be divided into two broad groups according to their understanding of this problem
1. The Ahmadias:
The Ahmadias are the Muslims equivalent of the Christians Jehovahs witness.
In clear contradiction of what the Qur'an states, the Ahmadias tried to solve the by enacting the swoon theory. In the swoon theory, Jesus was actually CRUCIFIED but he didnt die: he fainted on the cross. In addition they try to redefine the words crucifixion to mean death rather than a means of causing death.

Then a conspiracy theory was built on the fact that Pilate conspired with the soldiers not to kill Jesus but give an appearance of an execution. That Jesus was put in a cool tomb where he was nursed to health and traveled to india to raise a family. In fact, the Ahmadias have a grave for Jesus invented to prove this.
2. The Traditional Muslims:
This includes almost all other Muslim sects. They all agree with the Qur'an that Jesus wasnt Crucified at all BUT their "replacement/substitution theory" for resolving the controversy and it comes in two flavours
a. Contemporary Muslims:
These ones has seen the logical fallacies in every form of arguments that has been presented by Muslims so that their stance is simply: "Allah knows the best".

With this phrase, they bury their heads in the sand like an ostrich pretending that the problems can go away when the phrase is repeated well often and again an again.
b. Old school Muslims:
These ones goes with the numerous hadiths and tefsirs and thus come to various contradictions even against the supposed nature of Allah.

Some of their conclusions include:
1. Jesus was substituted with Judas
2. One of Jesus's disciples voluntarily submitted himself to die on the cross for Him
3. Someone on the street was confused for Jesus and Crucified in His stead.
4. Allah manufactured someone who was Crucified in the place of Christ.

In all the cases above, Jesus was smuggled bodily to heaven. He will come back to the earth at the end time to kill a one eyed monster call Al Daajjal and he will convert all Christians to muslims (break the crosses) after killing all the Jews(kill the pigs).


Muslims Dodge answering simple obvious question from their theories because it exposes the lack of common logical sense in the position of the Qur'an.

For instance can Muslims explain how Jesus was taken to heaven?
Was it secretly or in the presence of some of the disciples?

They will surely dodge this among others questions like plague!



Rashduct4luv
Empiree

Dodged Thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/5142675/jesus-didnt-die-he-wasnt


https://www.nairaland.com/5142675/jesus-didnt-die-he-wasnt

Why bring Islam into this,if I ask you the time Jesus was crucified, There are two different times inside bible contradicting one another,besides,I wonder how people take bible seriously, the book that always have some part removed and some part added,and you still believe its GOD book,its just like textbook,Editions after Editions to remove mistakes.And to put it what suites people so they can buy.

Empiree:
what stopped you and how's 'death of Jesus', ascension of Jesus and 'ressurection' of Jesus central aqeeda (Creed)?. Quran told us he was not killed nor crucified. Anything else you want?

He wants you to waste ur time explaining and still at the end,he will say you are not right about it.

Rashduct4luv:
Animals cannot sin!
Humans are sinners by their nature!
Humans can Never thus be an acceptable sacrifice!
But, the blood of Animals is never equivalent to that of man. Old covenant sacrifices were therefore symbolic!

Bible no get mouth to talk. Tell us who is talking in the Bible.


Act4:12


By whose name was people saved before Jesus was born?


Same reason Abraham slaughtered the sacrifice. He was never a Polytheist.


Allah says:

"Their meat will not reach Allah, nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good." (Qur'an 22: 34-37)

You see why I ask you to read the earlier revealed books? For in it you have the answer you need.

Islam knows only the sacrifice of Ibrahim and that's why you just copy without knowing why Allah desires blood sacrifice. Since you believe in all the prophets who are at least 90 Jews, you should be able to explain the purpose of Blood Sacrifice!

Before the supposed sacrifice of Abraham's son, he was no stranger to blood sacrifice: the question is why? (We both know that God isn't hungry for meat!)

If you knew just a little bit of the scriptures, you will know that SHEOL, the place of the dead is divided into two compartments. One the place where Abraham is and the other is a place of torment of sinners (and this is not Paradise). It's the place the dead are kept before the day of judgement.

1Pe 3:18-20:
"Because Christ himself suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God: being indeed put to death in flesh, but brought to life by that spirit with which he went, and to the spirits which are [now] in prison made proclamation at the time they were disobedient when the long suffering of God was waiting once for all in the day of Noah, while the ark was a building, in which a few, that be eight souls, made their escape during the flood;"

Rashduct4luv:
Kindly rewrite all this. I hate it more when you quote those letters for me as scriptures.Who are the Corinthians? Are they Nigerians? Abeg?

And to answer you finally! Is it not hypocrisy when you associate paganism to Islam fighting tooth and nail to establish your evidences.

Islam believes in worship Allah only without partners!

But Christianity believes God use His son as a Lamb sacrifice to redeem humans from sin.

An idol worshiper sacrifices animals and even humans to his idol.

Who is close to paganism? He who worship one God or he who serves a three in one God(s)?

isn't it lovely ,God send His only son to die for sin He did not commit ? the redemption of sin has been achieved.

bro. the purpose of this debate has been achieved. Allah made what is sacred to the pagan to be his symbol , meaning his moral standard is questionable
" And what agreement hath the temple of
God with idols?"

sulasa07:
Why bring Islam into this,if I ask you the time Jesus was crucified, There are two different times inside bible

I have asked a simple question that the Qur'an and Islam should be able to answer without complicating it with the "contradictions" of the bible. If surely Islam came to correct the mistakes of the past, the answer should be made plain!


The Question again:
Can you please (Muslims) explain how Jesus was taken to heaven: Was it secretly or in the presence of some of the disciples?

Muslims like you have been dodging this question among others questions like plague!

shadeyinka:
I have just started reading your link. I hope we can talk about it latter (no arguments at all). I have some little experience with Jinns an Angels too. And Ruqya!

Good.

shadeyinka:
I have asked a simple question that the Qur'an and Islam should be able to answer without complicating it with the "contradictions" of the bible. If surely Islam came to correct the mistakes of the past, the answer should be made plain!


The Question again:
Can you please (Muslims) explain how Jesus was taken to heaven: Was it secretly or in the presence of some of the disciples?

Muslims like you have been dodging this question among others questions like plague!

“When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you
to die and will raise you to myself, and will
clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will
place those who follow thee above those
who disbelieve, until the Day of
Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return
and I will judge between you concerning that
wherein you differ.” (3:56 )

shadeyinka:
I have asked a simple question that the Qur'an and Islam should be able to answer without complicating it with the "contradictions" of the bible. If surely Islam came to correct the mistakes of the past, the answer should be made plain!


The Question again:
Can you please (Muslims) explain how Jesus was taken to heaven: Was it secretly or in the presence of some of the disciples?

Muslims like you have been dodging this question among others questions like plague!

The verse clearly indicates that Hazrat Jesus
was to die a natural death and then only would he
be raised to Allah. The verse does not say that
Hazrat Jesus will be raised first then will die.

malvisguy212:
isn't it lovely ,God send His only son to die for sin He did not commit ? the redemption of sin has been achieved.

bro. the purpose of this debate has been achieved. Allah made what is sacred to the pagan to be his symbol , meaning his moral standard is questionable
" And what agreement hath the temple of
God with idols?"

Abeg! keep up with your error searching! God's son don die for god's creations' sin!

The temple of God needs blood sacrifice for redemption of sins! No blood no redemption!

bye.

All Muslims for this thread. Let's leave the Christians alone. Make we go prepare for our fasting!