shadeyinka:


I am hearing of this your angle for the first time.
If I get you well, you are saying:
1. Jesus wasnt Crucified
2. But Jesus is Dead
3. Then resurrected to be taken up to heaven

Qur'an4:157 - 158,
[So We cursed them for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God." And they did not kill him , nor did they crucify him ; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Almighty and Most Wise.

If I understand your position, are you saying that instead of the Jews and Romans killing Jesus, it was Allah himself that killed him?

Why also then would Allah have kill Jesus to raise Him to himself?

Why do you like to keep rumbling around?

sulasa07:

Why do you like to keep rumbling around?

I said:

I am hearing of this your angle for the first time.
If I get you well, you are saying:
1. Jesus wasnt Crucified
2. But Jesus was Dead
3. Then resurrected to be taken up to Heaven

You yourself know that this isn't what majority of Muslims believe:
Is rambling/rumbling asking sincere questions?
If your position is correct: I guess you didn't think of its implications that Allah killed Jesus instead of the Jews and Romans only to raise him up again


So, How did Jesus Die and Raised?
Was it in secret or it was in public?

shadeyinka:


I said:

I am hearing of this your angle for the first time.
If I get you well, you are saying:
1. Jesus wasnt Crucified
2. But Jesus was Dead
3. Then resurrected to be taken up to Heaven

You yourself know that this isn't what majority of Muslims believe:
Is rambling/rumbling asking sincere questions?
If your position is correct: I guess you didn't think of its implications that Allah killed Jesus instead of the Jews and Romans only to raise him up again


So, How did Jesus Die and Raised?
Was it in secret or it was in public?

Have Never Thought deeply of this your question until I saw it here.

Really, No Muslim can answer it. The Quran couldn't, so none of them will be able to answer it.

nutarious:



Have Never Thought deeply of this your question until I saw it here.

Really, No Muslim can answer it. The Quran couldn't, so none of them will be able to answer it.

You did it!

Thanks my sister. That aren't even the only question BUT for now, this is sufficient. Their imams haven't thought the answer to this one out yet.

Irrespective of which doctrine they hold: the foundermental question still works at odds with them. One of them just said Allah is Jehovah! Let him say that in a mosque in Mecca and see if he'll be allowed to recant!

shadeyinka:


I am hearing of this your angle for the first time.
If I get you well, you are saying:
1. Jesus wasnt Crucified
2. But Jesus is Dead
3. Then resurrected to be taken up to heaven

Qur'an4:157 - 158,
[So We cursed them for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God." And they did not kill him , nor did they crucify him ; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Almighty and Most Wise.

If I understand your position, are you saying that instead of the Jews and Romans killing Jesus, it was Allah himself that killed him?

Why also then would Allah have kill Jesus to raise Him to himself?

You are the one devoid of understanding. What sulasa07 said is not peculiar at all. This is why I said you don't understand our posts. That's why you keep asking silly question.


There are only two views regarding crucifixion of Jesus in Islam. All the Muslims, whether Sunni or Shia, Ahmadiyyah or Quranites and all subsects believe that Jesus was not killed and was not crucified exactly as Quran said. This is contrary to CHRISTIANS belief. You belief Jesus was killed by his enemies (Jews and Romans).


However, please pay close attention to the verse again that you quoted. Ahmadiyyah however believe Jesus had died. That's, he died of natural cause by God before being killed. This believe of them stemmed from Ayah they misinterpreted or they used wrong methodology. Their problem is the word "mutawafika" used in sura Al-Imran verse 55 which denotes 'death' or termination of life.

They misunderstood this Ayah due to wrong methodology they used. So they believe that Allaah's plan was to end Jesus life before his enemies did.


What they don't understand however is that God used the same word is sura az-Zumar 39:42


[I]Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.[/I]


I talked about this earlier but obviously you don't read to understand anything. I explained similarities between death and sleep. The same or similar word is used to describe Death and See. When we sleep means we are temporarily dead until we wake up. Those who don't wake up are dead. "Muta", "muta"wafika, 'maut' etc which also refer to taking Jesus away from his enemies.



The difference which you failed to understand is being killed by enemies which Quran refuted over and over AND God taken one's life. The later is what Ahmadiyyah believe. If they had believe in the former, that would mean rejection of the Ayah which is kufr (disbelieve).

So this belief of Ahmadiyyah on crucifixion of Jesus is now spreading amongst Sunni but very low percentage. Also Quraniyun or Quranites (Hadith rejectoers) have the same belief that Jesus has died but not killed nor crucified.

So in a nutshell, no Muslim believe Jesus was killed on the cross since Quran is clear on that. But majority of the Muslims believe Jesus was not killed nor crucified not was his life taken by God. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. So he's coming back bcus another Ayah clarify his eventual return in Quran 43:61



He (the son of Mary) shall be a known sign of the Hour; so have no doubt concerning it and follow Me."


And, of course, we have numerous ahadith that gave us clear picture that Jesus did not die and he will return to Earth rest his hands on the wings of the two angels.


So your question that you want to know how God raised him whether in the presence of people or in secret is 100% irrelevant to muslims.

Let me also point out that there are some amongst Ahmadiyyah who believe that Jesus escaped from his captors to Indian and live Kashmir (India) for number of years before he died natural death. This also means that they do not believe Jesus was crucified or killed by his enemies. But their idea that he escaped to India who now reincarnated to their leader, Mirza Gulam Ahmad is heretic.

So do you understand now?. If you don't please read over again before you ask same silly question again.



So your question, How did Jesus Die and Raised?. Was it in secret or it was in public?


Answer 1: he did not die

Answer 2: irrelevant

Empiree:
You are the one devoid of understanding. What sulasa07 said is not peculiar at all. This is why I said you don't understand our posts. That's why you keep asking silly question.


There are only two views regarding crucifixion of Jesus in Islam. All the Muslims, whether Sunni or Shia, Ahmadiyyah or Quranites and all subsects believe that Jesus was not killed and was not crucified exactly as Quran said. This is contrary to CHRISTIANS belief. You belief Jesus was killed by his enemies (Jews and Romans).


However, please pay close attention to the verse again that you quoted. Ahmadiyyah however believe Jesus had died. That's, he died of natural cause by God before being killed. This believe of them stemmed from Ayah they misinterpreted or they used wrong methodology. Their problem is the word "mutawafika" used in sura Al-Imran verse 55 which denotes 'death' or termination of life.

They misunderstood this Ayah due to wrong methodology they used. So they believe that Allaah's plan was to end Jesus life before his enemies did.


What they don't understand however is that God used the same word is sura az-Zumar 39:42


[I]Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.[/I]


I talked about this earlier but obviously you don't read to understand anything. I explained similarities between death and sleep. The same or similar word is used to describe Death and See. When we sleep means we are temporarily dead until we wake up. Those who don't wake up are dead. "Muta", "muta"wafika, 'maut' etc which also refer to taking Jesus away from his enemies.



The difference which you failed to understand is being killed by enemies which Quran refuted over and over AND God taken one's life. The later is what Ahmadiyyah believe. If they had believe in the former, that would mean rejection of the Ayah which is kufr (disbelieve).

So this belief of Ahmadiyyah on crucifixion of Jesus is now spreading amongst Sunni but very low percentage. Also Quraniyun or Quranites (Hadith rejectoers) have the same belief that Jesus has died but not killed nor crucified.

So in a nutshell, no Muslim believe Jesus was killed on the cross since Quran is clear on that. But majority of the Muslims believe Jesus was not killed nor crucified not was his life taken by God. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. So he's coming back bcus another Ayah clarify his eventual return in Quran 43:61



He (the son of Mary) shall be a known sign of the Hour; so have no doubt concerning it and follow Me."


And, of course, we have numerous ahadith that gave us clear picture that Jesus did not die and he will return to Earth rest his hands on the wings of the two angels.


So your question that you want to know how God raised him whether in the presence of people or in secret is 100% irrelevant to muslims.

Let me also point out that there are some amongst Ahmadiyyah who believe that Jesus escaped from his captors to Indian and live Kashmir (India) for number of years before he died natural death. This also means that they do not believe Jesus was crucified or killed by his enemies. But their idea that he escaped to India who now reincarnated to their leader, Mirza Gulam Ahmad is heretic.

So do you understand now?. If you don't please read over again before you ask same silly question again.



So your question, How did Jesus Die and Raised?. Was it in secret or it was in public?


Answer 1: he did not die

Answer 2: irrelevant

Thank you for the great depth of explanation! I am aware of several different and alternate views of Muslims. Since I am aware of the difference in views, I engage each Muslim such as
sulasa07 strictly according to his beliefs.

For him, the most striking part was that Allah killed him and then Allah raised him from the dead after. He backed it up with a verse :

When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you
to die and will raise you to myself, and will
clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will
place those who follow thee above those
who disbelieve, until the Day of
Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return
and I will judge between you concerning that
wherein you differ.” (3:56 )

For him, the problem is solved if Allah could kill Jesus, resurrect him again, then take him to heaven. That should take care of the Jews not being able to kill Jesus and his Assension into the heavens. Let's assume all this are miracles of Allah.

Unfortunately still, it doesn't solve the problem of "In whose presence" the miracle took place. Even if Jesus did not die, and he was taken bro heaven bodily the Question of "in whose presence?" Is still very valid.


So, your answer:

So your question, How did Jesus Die and Raised?. Was it in secret or it was in public?


Answer 1: he did not die

Answer 2: irrelevant

Your Answer 1: He did not die!

Let's assume that for the sake of argument Jesus did not die
BUT
Your Answer 2: irrelevant!

Is certainly not a good nor valid answer.

WHY?
Firstly:

If I accused you of Murder or Stealing in the presence of ALL. And your people asked me these questions

1. Do you really think Empiree kill this woman?
And I answered in the affirmative: Yes, Empiree killed the woman!
2. How did Empiree kill the woman and who else knows about the murder? And I reply: The Question is IRRELEVANT to me!

How can anyone determine your guilt by the phrase irrelevant!
If I can't describe how you murdered the woman and I can't present any proof, then I should be prosecuted for lying against you.

Secondly:
If Jesus didn't die but was taken to heaven by the almighty Allah then, other serious problems crop up
1. If Jesus was taken to heaven in the presence of his Disciples , how come none of them seems to be aware of it. All the 11 remaining apostles but one died very violent deaths proclaiming that Jesus died, was buried, rose up from the dead and they even saw him and touched him.
2. If Jesus was taken to heaven without the knowledge of the disciples , then Allah created a new "polytheism" called Christianity by Himself. It simply means that the almighty Allah decieved not only the Jews and Romans but Mary, the Apostles and all the Disciples.

Either way, Islam has a lot of explanations to do.

By the way:
There is no Christianity without the Death and Resurrection of Christ.

1Co 15:17-19 :
"And if Christ hath not been raised (from the dead), your belief is vain; you are still in your sins; and consequently they, who have been composed to rest (die) in Christ, have perished. If we have hope in Christ in this life only, we, of all men, are most to be pitied

The accusation of Islam is grievously great and cannot be answered by the phrase "irrelevant to Islam!"

fuckfuckman:

When u run out of point on arguments you resort to abuses so when I abuse you back we'll live the topic.
I ask again if God is true and he talks to you Christians Muslims and other religions why do you all have different stories about him. Why don't your stories agree? See as you and malvisguy212 are fighting over God.
Why not he reveal himself to you people since you claim God can talk.

You should review your first post I replied, if you want a meaningful discussion.

Empiree:

So your question, How did Jesus Die and Raised?. Was it in secret or it was in public?


Answer 1: he did not die

Answer 2: irrelevant

Your answer 2 simply shows that you are clearly unable to respond appropriately.

You can see the loopholes in the Koran but you are UNWILLING to admit that they are there.

Islam never talked in some details about any other religion as it did about that of the Jews and Christians. Yet it couldn't give enough detail to prove its point against a CRITICAL issue in Christianity. Doesn't that sound strange even to you?

You Moslems love to talk about 'witnesses' and now that you're asked about witnesses to this 'miracle' of Allah you can't provide any.

shadeyinka:
Unfortunately still, it doesn't solve the problem of "In whose presence" the miracle took place. Even if Jesus did not die, and he was taken bro heaven bodily the Question of "in whose presence?" Is still very valid.

I knew you would keep asking this silly question.


And you repeated it here again

1. If Jesus was taken to heaven in the presence of his Disciples , how come none of them seems to be aware of it. All the 11 remaining apostles but one died very violent deaths proclaiming that Jesus died, was buried, rose up from the dead and they even saw him and touched him.
2. If Jesus was taken to heaven without the knowledge of the disciples , then Allah created a new "polytheism" called Christianity by Himself. It simply means that the almighty Allah decieved not only the Jews and Romans but Mary, the Apostles and all the Disciples.

Obviously you want to believe what you want. We are absolutely not obligated to give you answer. Quran already answered you in the same verse which i have posted countless times. It say "those who differed therein were full of doubts and they have no knowledge. They followed nothing but conjectures".

Is this difficult for you to understand?. I think you need brain reevaluation. If Jesus was raised to heaven in the presence of others what or how does that changes the actual event?. If Jesus was raised in the absence of others what or how does that changes the event and what do muslims gain?. Nothing. So my answer remain the same, your question is irrelevant to us.



And the analogy you used below is out of logic.

If I accused you of Murder or Stealing in the presence of ALL. And your people asked me these questions

1. Do you really think shadeyinka kill this woman?
And I answered in the affirmative: Yes, shadeyinka killed the woman!
2. How did shadeyinka kill the woman and who else knows about the murder? And I reply: The Question is IRRELEVANT to me!

How can anyone determine your guilt by the phrase irrelevant!
If I can't describe how you murdered the woman and I can't present any proof, then I should be prosecuted for lying against you.

God performed his miracle and you asked us how He performed it?. When Angel appeared to Mary, did you ask yourself how?

By the way:
There is no Christianity without the Death and Resurrection of Christ.[/b]

So if this whole issue of resurrection, crucifixion, how he was raised whether in the presence of or absence of others, then, this is christian problems not islam. You need to deal with your confusion since they are so important to you. Our point is Jesus was not killed nor was he crucified. This is clear and satisfactory to us. Nothing more.

Matter of fact, I am trying to safe you from shame. Since "death of christ" is so important to christianity, i would advise you to look for a thread created by rilwayne001 where it was dealt with some 4-5 years ago. The whole thing about death of christ conflicts many reports in your same bible. This is the thread i believe https://www.nairaland.com/2172133/question-did-jesus-read-bible


If you want to know answers to your questions, go back to your bible to look for conflicting answers. We have debunked whole lots of craziness cooked up by unknown authors of the bibles

sagenaija:

Your answer 2 simply shows that you are clearly unable to respond appropriately.

You can see the loopholes in the Koran but you are UNWILLING to admit that they are there.

Islam never talked in some details about any other religion as it did about that of the Jews and Christians. Yet it couldn't give enough detail to prove its point against a CRITICAL issue in Christianity. Doesn't that sound strange even to you?

You Moslems love to talk about 'witnesses' and now that you're asked about witnesses to this 'miracle' of Allah you can't provide any.

Abeg find something else important to do. You just gonna expose yourself to holes in your bible if i am to get started with you.

In Matthew 3:17 historian said a voice was heard from heaven and he suggested it was God's voice. Who was the witness to this?. How did historian know it was God's voice?. There are too many living Beings in the heavens. Angels are there. Jinns were there, birds and dead people are there too. Whose voice was it?

shadeyinka:



Mind you, Christians forgot to put in their Bible that Jesus spoke as a baby! How could they have forgotten?

I think this is obviously a waste of our time..

I interspersed a miracle in the Qur'an with some of those in the Bible to prove to you how really "logical" you folks are, but you stylishly denied that which Qur'an tells us about. I love your hypocrisy, my good Christian friends.

To you your religion and to me my religion.

shadeyinka:


WHY?
Firstly:

If I accused you of Murder or Stealing in the presence of ALL. And your people asked me these questions

1. Do you really think Empiree kill this woman?
And I answered in the affirmative: Yes, Empiree killed the woman!
2. How did Empiree kill the woman and who else knows about the murder? And I reply: The Question is IRRELEVANT to me!

How can anyone determine your guilt by the phrase irrelevant!
If I can't describe how you murdered the woman and I can't present any proof, then I should be prosecuted for lying against you.
"

[/b]

This is absolute balderdash!!!
Neither Empiree nor any other Muslim is a witness here. Allah is the witness and only he knows if were others.

aadoiza:

This is absolute balderdash!!!
Neither Empiree nor any other Muslim is a witness here. Allah is the witness and only he knows if were others.

Can you please explain why the analogy is a balderdash?

I'm learning some vocabularies from you thanks!

Suppose it's not the Almighty Allah that said so? The Qur'an mother of all books should have a more convincing rebuttal for Christians!

Case dismissed!

aadoiza:

I think this is obviously a waste of our time..

I interspersed a miracle in the Qur'an with some of those in the Bible to prove to you how really "logical" you folks are, but you stylishly denied that which Qur'an tells us about. I love your hypocrisy, my good Christian friends.

To you your religion and to me my religion.

It was an innocent Question.
The bible spoke about the birth, life, death, resurrection, Assension and early years of Christianity and they forgot important miracles such as Jesus speaking as a baby and Jesus molding a bird and giving life to it.

I am not arguing against the miracle, I am just asking the question about the feasibility of Christians FORGETTING to put it in their scriptures. It's just amazing that such kinds of miracles were overlooked!

aadoiza:

This is absolute balderdash!!!
Neither Empiree nor any other Muslim is a witness here. Allah is the witness and only he knows if were others.

No!!! this is not God of the Bible. did you know that from the time of Abraham down to Jesus , who ever God reveal Himself to , there will always be a WITNESS? God reveal himself to Abraham and Isaac confirmed it, He reveal himself to Isaac and Jacob confirmed it, and to Jacob , Joseph confirmed it. that's how the chains continued down to Jesus. God will NEVER ASK US TO BELIEVED WITHOUT PROVE, in fact the Bible advice us to test every spirit to know if they are from God.

Empiree:
I knew you would keep asking this silly question.


And you repeated it here again


Obviously you want to believe what you want. We are absolutely not obligated to give you answer. Quran already answered you in the same verse which i have posted countless times. It say "those who differed therein were full of doubts and they have no knowledge. They followed nothing but conjectures".

Is this difficult for you to understand?. I think you need brain reevaluation. If Jesus was raised to heaven in the presence of others what or how does that changes the actual event?. If Jesus was raised in the absence of others what or how does that changes the event and what do muslims gain?. Nothing. So my answer remain the same, your question is irrelevant to us.



And the analogy you used below is out of logic.




God performed his miracle and you asked us how He performed it?. When Angel appeared to Mary, did you ask yourself how?




So if this whole issue of resurrection, crucifixion, how he was raised whether in the presence of or absence of others, then, this is christian problems not islam. You need to deal with your confusion since they are so important to you. Our point is Jesus was not killed nor was he crucified. This is clear and satisfactory to us. Nothing more.

Matter of fact, I am trying to safe you from shame. Since "death of christ" is so important to christianity, i would advise you to look for a thread created by rilwayne001 where it was dealt with some 4-5 years ago. The whole thing about death of christ conflicts many reports in your same bible. This is the thread i believe https://www.nairaland.com/2172133/question-did-jesus-read-bible


If you want to know answers to your questions, go back to your bible to look for conflicting answers. We have debunked whole lots of craziness cooked up by unknown authors of the bibles

I think you are either hiding under a deliberate misinformation or its a temper tantrums because of the absence of credible answer.

I have agreed with you (for this sake) that
1. Jesus wasn't killed (it's a miracle)
2. Jesus wasn't Crucified (a miracle)
3. Jesus was taken to heaven (a MIRACLE)

The only question I asked about the third miracle wasn't to dispute the miracle but to ask if it was in the presence of some Disciples or Not!

Is there a third alternative? If the third miracle happens,bit can either be in the presence or absence of the disciples. And this is where you are lost.

For either way you take, there is a serious question mark!
This is the only reason you throw tantrums and you feign ignorance! Only Allah knows!

And even if only the almighty Allah knows, the implications are still grevious!

^^

You are duly answered. To you is your religion. To us is ours


I think you need serious mental evaluation. This is probably 6th time or more you repeated this silly thing. It is getting annoying. We understand our religion far better than you do. And i leave you with this verse Quran 2:18

aadoiza:

You should review your first post I replied, if you want a meaningful discussion.

I didn't see any first reply if not "Bleh Bleh Bleh. When ignorance meets confusion the result is an idiot like you"
I ask again if God talks to all of you why do all of you have different versions of him and always arguing and always fighting. This is the third time I'm asking this question if you don't reply I'll know you're sentimental and wouldn't reply anything from you.

Empiree:
^^

You are duly answered. To you is your religion. To us is ours


I think you need serious mental evaluation. This is probably 6th time or more you repeated this silly thing. It is getting annoying. We understand our religion far better than you do. And i leave you with this verse Quran 2:18

You don't need to be abusive!
Islam accused Christians!

Simple question was asked Islam!

Islam couldn't answer or had no answer!

Yet Islam is angry that her accusation was even contended against!

Even in Islam, accusation of Adultery required at least two other witnesses for the accusation to stand. You remember the hadith about those who accused Aisha of Adultery? What was their punishment? Even Islam takes false accusations grievously!

@Empiree

https://www.nairaland.com/3520137/historically-analyzing-crucifixtion-resurrection-claim

This^^ dealt with the issue too. They've all shy away from it.

But then I must confess that you really had time to go in circle with this guy. He's obviously a time waster. Lol

come to think of it, why will the first Christians who are almost all Jews fabricate the death of Jesus ? the early Christians has nothing to gain for preaching the crucifixion in fact it will make the task harder, it will be very difficult to spread Christianity, why did I say this ? see, the most brutal death a criminal can get is dying on the cross. Crucifixion was an obscene form of torture and execution reserved for despised criminals.

will it be pleasant to the heathen Jews to accept the apostles message of redemption, knowing how Jesus died a shameful death ? if the apostles want to fabricate lies, they will made a more easier lie that the Jews and gentle will accept.

1 Corinthians 1:23
23 but we preach Christ crucified, a
stumbling block to Jews and folly to
Gentiles,

It was not to the advantage of Christians to concoct a crucified Messiah.it made their life and mission much harder.

malvisguy212:
come to think of it, why will the first Christians who are almost all Jews fabricate the death of Jesus ? the early Christians has nothing to gain for preaching the crucifixion in fact it will make the task harder, it will be very difficult to spread Christianity, why did I say this ? see, the most brutal death a criminal can get is dying on the cross. Crucifixion was an obscene form of torture and execution reserved for despised criminals.

will it be pleasant to the heathen Jews to accept the apostles message of redemption, knowing how Jesus died a shameful death ? if the apostles want to fabricate lies, they will made a more easier lie that the Jews and gentle will accept.

1 Corinthians 1:23
23 but we preach Christ crucified, a
stumbling block to Jews and folly to
Gentiles,

It was not to the advantage of Christians to concoct a crucified Messiah.it made their life and mission much harder.

Their blindness is of a total nature.

A Crucified person is killed completely naked on the cross.
Nails are driven through the heel bones (not the feet as normally depicted) so that if the person was even brought down from the cross immediately, he is never going vto be able to walk normally again.

What do Christians stand to gain that their master was Crucified stark naked on the cross? Don't they have more to gain by boasting to the Jews "you wanted to kill Jesus, but you killed the wrong person: Jesus escaped"

Josephus the Jewish Historian wrote about the Crucifixion of Jesus. The Romans testified about it. Yet 600 years later, Mohammed didn't decided to rewrite HISTORY by a fiat and no single iota of Evidence!

Rilwayne001:
@Emp.iree

https://www.nairaland.com/3520137/historically-analyzing-crucifixtion-resurrection-claim

This^^ dealt with the issue too. They've all shy away from it.

But then I must confess that you really had time to go in circle with this guy. He's obviously a time waster. Lol

Abi na. I was trying to make sure the message is conveyed so that he doesnt have excuses in the future. Yet, he still asked. This is very shameful. I am actually waiting for sound christian to see if they would understand better. I thought malvisguy would do better but unfortunately, he joined shaku shaku christians. Let's wait to see if credible christian would come forward and understand better. I am done replying his silly question.

shadeyinka:

You don't need to be abusive!
Islam accused Christians!

Simple question was asked Islam!

Islam couldn't answer or had no answer!

Yet Islam is angry that her accusation was even contended against!

Even in Islam, accusation of Adultery required at least two other witnesses for the accusation to stand. You remember the hadith about those who accused Aisha of Adultery? What was their punishment? Even Islam takes false accusations grievously!

You are shaku shaku christian. Let's wait for brilliant christian if they are very understanding. Your case is closed now.

Empiree:
Abi na. I was trying to make sure the message is conveyed so that he doesnt have excuses in the future. Yet, he still asked. This is very shameful. I am actually waiting for sound christian to see if they would understand better. I thought malvisguy would do better but unfortunately, he joined shaku shaku christians. Let's wait to see if credible christian would come forward and understand better. I am done replying his silly question.



You are shaku shaku christian. Let's wait for brilliant christian if they are very understanding. Your case is closed now.

Anyone can make a statement!
An accusation is just a statement!

When the answer to questioning of the statement is a reference back to the statement, you know that there is nothing in the statement.

They want us to understand that their statement is an explanation for their statement!

Rilwayne001:
@Em.piree

https://www.nairaland.com/3520137/historically-analyzing-crucifixtion-resurrection-claim

This^^ dealt with the issue too. They've all shy away from it.

But then I must confess that you really had time to go in circle with this guy. He's obviously a time waster. Lol

You see, they dont understand definition of God. If they do, this guy would not be comparing witnesses to adultery and witnesses to God's Miracles. If they truly understood meaning of God, they would know God is not bound by any laws even His Laws.

For instance, He requires 4 witnesses to adultery. This becomes a legal case. If a witness account conflicts other 3, adultery case is automatically dismissed even if adultery actually took place. Only God knows that. He doesn't need eyewitnesses for Himself. Sufficient is Allah as witness over everything. Witnesses are only for humans and Jinns. God is not bound by Laws.

If he understands this post, he would know this post is not meant for rilwayne but himself bcus i simply don't want to quote him. He is annoying.

shadeyinka:

Their blindness is of a total nature.

A Crucified person is killed completely naked on the cross.
Nails are driven through the heel bones (not the feet as normally depicted) so that if the person was even brought down from the cross immediately, he is never going vto be able to walk normally again.

What do Christians stand to gain that their master was Crucified stark naked on the cross? Don't they have more to gain by boasting to the Jews "you wanted to kill Jesus, but you killed the wrong person: Jesus escaped"

Josephus the Jewish Historian wrote about the Crucifixion of Jesus. The Romans testified about it. Yet 600 years later, Mohammed didn't decided to rewrite HISTORY by a fiat and no single iota of Evidence!

those witness that are more closer to the historical situation than Muhammad, reported that Jesus was crucified, These witnesses include
non-Christian historians who had no motive to fabricate Christ's death.

if there is a question mark about the crucifixion . wither Jesus died on the cross or he did not die, it would have been eagerly disputed wherever the early christians preached. But it wasn't. The fact of his death by crucifixion was not questioned.

the disciples died a terrible death, and the main reason of there death is because they preach the crucifixion, now the question is,if the crucifixion is a myth created by this same disciples, would they give their life for a myth they created ?

me think this Muslim need to question the identity of Allah. I am planning of creating a thread about this, very revealing.

malvisguy212:
those witness that are more closer to the historical situation than Muhammad, reported that Jesus was crucified, These witnesses include
non-Christian historians who had no motive to fabricate Christ's death.

if there is a question mark about the crucifixion . wither Jesus died on the cross or he did not die, it would have been eagerly disputed wherever the early christians preached. But it wasn't. The fact of his death by crucifixion was not questioned.

the disciples died a terrible death, and the main reason of there death is because they preach the crucifixion, now the question is,if the crucifixion is a myth created by this same disciples, would they give their life for a myth they created ?

me think this Muslim need to question the identity of Allah. I am planning of creating a thread about this, very revealing.

You hit it on the head bro!

They want us to accept the Qur'anic version of the story without question and reject the bible version also without a question.

It is certain that one of the two scriptures lead to hell. One would be foolish refusing to question them.

I'll be looking forward to your write-up!

fuckfuckman:

I didn't see any first reply if not "Bleh Bleh Bleh. When ignorance meets confusion the result is an idiot like you"
I ask again if God talks to all of you why do all of you have different versions of him and always arguing and always fighting. This is the third time I'm asking this question if you don't reply I'll know you're sentimental and wouldn't reply anything from you.

If you don't review that post do not mention me.

malvisguy212:
No!!! this is not God of the Bible. did you know that from the time of Abraham down to Jesus , who ever God reveal Himself to , there will always be a WITNESS? God reveal himself to Abraham and Isaac confirmed it, He reveal himself to Isaac and Jacob confirmed it, and to Jacob , Joseph confirmed it. that's how the chains continued down to Jesus. God will NEVER ASK US TO BELIEVED WITHOUT PROVE, in fact the Bible advice us to test every spirit to know if they are from God.

So when Abraham was thrown into the fire and an angel appeared and offered to help, who was the witness then? I think this is also one of the mind-boggling miracles recorded in the Qur'an. Like in the Jesus case, they were witnesses but none of whom really knows what transpired.
There's a reason religions are faith based and that's largely due to the fact that they work with beliefs. If God is so concerned about proofs we'll all know his location, won't we? He may choose to give us clues or provide clear proofs or leave us dumbfounded. He does as he wills

shadeyinka:

It was an innocent Question.
The bible spoke about the birth, life, death, resurrection, Assension and early years of Christianity and they forgot important miracles such as Jesus speaking as a baby and Jesus molding a bird and giving life to it.

I am not arguing against the miracle, I am just asking the question about the feasibility of Christians FORGETTING to put it in their scriptures. It's just amazing that such kinds of miracles were overlooked!

What if Bible writers were unaware. After all, it was witnessed by a handful and three were no Christians then.

shadeyinka:

Can you please explain why the analogy is a balderdash?

I'm learning some vocabularies from you thanks!

Suppose it's not the Almighty Allah that said so? The Qur'an mother of all books should have a more convincing rebuttal for Christians!

Case dismissed!

In your incongruous court case illustration, you had a witness who could be presented and liable to amenability, but God... He can't be presented nor is he answerable to anyone. Geddit?

aadoiza:

What if Bible writers were unaware. After all, it was witnessed by a handful and three were no Christians then.

No Christians then, But there were disciples?

Ask yourself if that was possible?

The Hadiths have done an exhaustive compilation of the life of Mohammed. Do you think they can forget an iota of the important events around Prophet Mohammed? Even if they did, do you think it will take Christians to discover them?

If Christians begin to peddle a news the Prophet Mohammed walked on air from Mecca to Medina, would that be true and believabl

Mind you, it is to the advantage of Christians for Jesus to speak as a baby (how many babies in the whole universe have spoken before?)
It is to the advantage of Christians for Jesus to create birds from clay (like God did with man) and Christians forgot!!!!