₦airaland Forum

All I see is emotions, rather than sheep, following a shepherd from thread to thread. Cries and wailings...

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openmine:
Yet again i took my time to go through your posts though long....
However,I believe the scriptures both old and new are explicit about the acts
It doesn't matter when the word homosexual was coined out
when a man is intimate sexually with a man as he would do to a woman,he is in the present engaging in homosexual acts!

Leviticus 20:13 The Message (MSG)
13 “If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.


I could bring up different translation for this verse,however,what makes this scripture very clear and direct is the fact that such acts are unnatural and shameful before God!

Bro,you only countered their scriptures which to me wasn't good enough to justify the homosexual acts,however,its your reponsibility as an advocate of homosexuality to show with scriptures where homosexuality is permitted by God!

God through paul said its unnatural and shameful,you think and believe otherwise...now show with scriptures that God permits the act of "men having sex with men"!

I will go with @openmine and wait for MuttleyLaff to bring up Scriptures that permits men having sex with men.

openmine:
Yet again i took my time to go through your posts though long....
However,I believe the scriptures both old and new are explicit about the acts
It doesn't matter when the word homosexual was coined out
when a man is intimate sexually with a man as he would do to a woman,he is in the present engaging in homosexual acts!

Leviticus 20:13 The Message (MSG)
13 “If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

I could bring up different translation for this verse, however, what makes this scripture very clear and direct is the fact that such acts are unnatural and shameful before God!

Bro, you only countered their scriptures which to me wasn't good enough to justify the homosexual acts, however, its your responsibility as an advocate of homosexuality to show with scriptures where homosexuality is permitted by God!

God through paul said its unnatural and shameful,you think and believe otherwise...now show with scriptures that God permits the act of "men having sex with men"!

Did you, by any chance, read ALLthe sections where I mentioned Paul at all?

Before you start going on as many translations, you want to embark on, have you studied the historical and biblical context of Leviticus 20:13 at all, hmm? You are saying what the Bible never said, hasn't said and didn't say with how you are interpreting Leviticus 20:13 brother.

openmine:
Firstly,you made out too many words without even using scriptures to substantiate your claims!
For instance,You said God likes homosexual acts but you never provided scriptures to show where he does or where he allows such...rather you are trying to prove fruitlessly why the scriptures provided by others are invalid when in fact they are more than explicit for one to see no matter the analogy that you involve!
You said God loves homosexual acts right? Provide Scriptures please!
You said God has never had any objection to the homosexuality act (which i consider insult to the most high God who created a man and woman for a purpose) but let me allow you prove with scriptures!

On this again, I agree.

Kikikikikikikiki....... Loooooool

What a mighty comeback indeed..... Lol.

Muttleylaff clap for yourself, you too much.

Too many grammar nor be sense, oga calm down.

See the way you have successfully wasted your phone ink. I pity that innocent keypad.

You were trying to twist already lay down scriptures to buttress your abominable homosexual acts but yet you failed. I was hoping you will come out with hidden new testament verses but yet you failed again. What a pity.

Is this the comeback we were expecting or should we wait for another muttleylaff?
This is still a physical personality trying to convince me on how good is homosexuality and yet he has failed not once. I think I should wait until the devil transform into an Angel of light to see if he will be able to convince me about it, but until then HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABOMINABLE.

TRY YOUR LUCK NEXT TIME MUTTLEYLAFF.

GOOD DAY.

NO THANKS THIS TIME BECAUSE I'M DISAPPOINTED.

Also remember I don't like wasting my phone ink over arguments especially on this stupid claims of the abominable act of homosexuality....... cos e dey vex me fa.

God bless.

MuttleyLaff:
I did warn you yesterday, it was going to be long, and I have apologised to you just now in my postscript above, for it being long.

I would advise you bookmark it, and read the three sections, carefully and thoughtfully during your break and in privacy, without any distractions

Extraodinary lies requires an extraordinary long reply, dont you agree.

And yet promised to respond to me separately.


Extra ordinary lies? Have you read what you have posted in this thread so far?

Oh, God man. I use to take you seriously. You dey fall my hand bad.

You pick scriptures that have no bearing with homosexuality and try to force it on them, and you call explicit and clear scriptures lies?

MuttleyLaff:
PART 3 CONTINUED FROM ABOVE. I HAD TO SPLIT INTO 3 PARTS, AS WAS TOLD POST IS TOO LONG

OK, TV01, Shepherd00 and maybe openmine as well, now, the $64,000 question is, stating clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, what correctly, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the committed abomination that was being done before God, hmm?
(i.e. what correctly and pato, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the thing that was done, that God hates and/or detests?)

None of you guys, not even bigshot TV01, with all that his big chutzpah, ever answers those question(s)

There is nothing bogus in my purview, but what is bogus, is the deception and lies you learned and strongly come to believe.

How you've given in to the false appearance(s) from the genuine and the false impression different to the true meaning of the text and words in Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and/or 1 Timothy 1:10. The truth about the text and words, in Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and/or 1 Timothy 1:10 have being exchanged and traded for a lie(s) that so are misleading the saints.

When uninformed people read their English version bible(s), I mean read it, especially without knowing certain or specific things beforehand, like about truth(s) trade and exchanged in for lies, they then for some reason, think that, what they read is how the Bible has always and originally said it. They read verses that the church is and has been using to condemn gays when the Bible really hasnt condemned and doesn't condemn gays at all in any of those seven clobber verses

This thread will deconstruct the lies and shake the table that the discriminative myth of consensual adult homosexuality and unjust intolerance of consensual adult same sex union are standing on

I want to challenge people to fact check. With a presence of mind, reader(s) should investigate all I type, write or advance, in order to verify the facts, as I present them

As I've previously mentioned, the word "homosexuality" was not around in Biblical times and the word "homosexual" was invented in 1868

It is Karl-Maria Kertbeny, in Germany, who originally and/or previously used the word homosexual, when he coined and introduced it first, in a private letter written in 1868 to a friend, Karl Heinrich Ulrichs

Subsequently the first known appearance of the term homosexual in print appeared in an German pamphlet written by same Karl-Maria Kertbeny the following year in 1869

Another interesting to know, is that the original Greek word in the Bible (i.e. "arsenokoites'') that has now been adopted as meaning homosexual is actually a translation from the result of combining of two words "arsen" and "koites" which literally means "man and beds"

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:8-11 are the only two times, in the Bible's entire history, that the word "arsenokoites" is used and seen

It would be exciting to know, why Paul, in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, when inventing this word "arsenokoites", where in his construct, he used man, in singular and then used beds, in plural. Never mind, I'll tell you why and keep you out of misery. It had to do with Paul, talking about and/or against infidelity, promiscuity, philandering, hopping from one bed to another bed, having multiple and/or casual sexual relationships, having affair(s), screwing around etcetera

Man thinks he has given a witty response. SMH. At least from this your reply, there is nowhere in the Bible nor anywhere that God condemns same sex union

"Ayama" loosely translated means "rubbish". Oga abeggy, comot for jor ojaare. Pitifully responded to and not beautifully, is more like it and what I would rather admit to. "Shebi o mọ iwe, shebi o kawe", loosely translated means "you know book now, you know how to read books now", then just keep on reading sha, and get ready to be snapped back to reality and the real world.

ThothHermes, why is it that TV01 hates answering simple easy direct straightword questions, hmm? Is until you get on his case before he will answer this now, just like he dilly dallied the other time until you pulled him to attention, erh?

I grinned too, except mine was actually a grin of disappointment at your feeble reply that's without aplomb, especially when in a demanding situation like this one

I actually literally laughed out loud at that part of your reply, that said: "it pollutes the land"

How do you mean that:"The acts are forms or worship and a gateway for demonic activity"

I asked this comedian a question about context, biblical and historical context, that is, but he ignored the question and refused to address it. No problem, that is not going to stop anything. I have given 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 a mention and commented on them, so lets now start on Romans 1 too now.

As we can see, that TV01, in order to more likely obfuscate, rather than enlighten, TV01 volunteers the whole of Romans 1, as evidence, knowing fully well that Romans 1 is a book with a total of 32 verses. What a very crafty person, TV01 is behaving that way, isnt he?

Anyway, that wouldnt stop us forging on with this thread, as judging by the context of Romans 1, the evidence is there, that idolatry and with fertility gods, lust, temple sex, temple prostitution and promiscuous sex are the subject matter of the chapter. Idolatry and with fertility gods, lust, temple sex, temple prostitution and promiscuous sex matter are dealt with in that Romans 1 chapter and it really is important, to note that, all of these concerns, would be equally as sinful, whether heterosexual or homosexual in nature.

Textual context cannot be divorced entirely from biblical context, so Paul with and/or in Romans 1 chapter, was in fact, talking of those going to the fertility temples of the day, to indulge in sex orgies and some engaging in ritual sex under the guise to get divine blessings and was not anywhere in that chapter criticizing consensual SS attraction and SS relationships adults or declaring them to be wrong or evil. This fact will be shocking for some, and be too much of a bitter pill, that they can not easily swallow, even if that does occurs, it will cause them indigestion like nothing they've ever had before.

By three methods we may learn wisdom, I've heard people say. First by reflection which is noblest, second, by imitation which is simplest, third by experience which is the bitterest, so for those objecting to and/or opposing the facts, I write it off for the naysayers as a life experience and getting education.

"No Israelite, whether man or woman, may become a temple prostitute."
- Deuteronomy 23:17

There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land;
the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
- 1 Kings 14:24

Committed, faithful, honest, lasting life time same sex relationships have been there from time immemorial TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera, and Paul wasnt in Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 ranting about that at all, at all.

What Paul was ranting about in Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 was the infidelity, promiscuity and the cult practice of having sex with patrons as a form of deity worship. This custom was rampant and happened in the Old Testament in the lands before the Israelites arrived too.

We all know Leviticus 20:13 is Leviticus 18:22 and vice versa, but not all, I mean the likes of TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr know or realise that, Paul actually re-echoed Leviticus 20:13 and Leviticus 18:22 with 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and know that the problem Paul was addressing with Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 isnt and/or wasnt about same sex relationships with fidelity but it was something else entirely different to that, which has again reared its head with the Gentile

There is this strong common thread going through Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and it ties them together but it eludes the most astute. Peoples perception of this matter isnt what they think and learned it to be.

So what is happening and/or what happened in Romans 1:25-28?
Well, for your information TV01, Sheherd00, openmine, silite3 and others, Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24, 26 & 27 is a rehash of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, like I've probably already mentioned, but with a twist

Paul, with Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24, 26 & 27, is echoing what happened around when Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 were given. He then added the twist (i.e. Romans 1:26b: ... [b]for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature) which is, the women too, have joined to be participants in the ongoing "detestable customs practised". It essentially was like Deja Poo The feeling that Paul has "seen" and read this crap happen before way in the Canaan-Israelites days, but now in double force.

The remedy, the first step to realign, to shake off the lies, will be, for staters, to review 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9, and look into what[/b] "malakois" and "arsenokoites" really means. I strongly advise the likes of TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera to do just that, instead of opting to alternatively plastering their opinions and beliefs here, as opposed the truth and real meaning of those words.

The epiphany of what the "the detestable customs that were practiced" in Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 were, will sooner or later occur, after the reviews.

It is an insufferable practice for God to bear and that's why God voiced His disapproval over the detestable custom being practised

It is the only ONE reason, that this sexual sin, that this particular sexual immorality, is condemned as committing abomination unto God
whilst other sexual sins or other sexual immoralities like, adultery in Leviticus 20:10, incest in Leviticus 20:11-14 or bestiality in Leviticus 20:15, escape the mention to be condemned as an abomination unto God or as one thing, God dislikes intensely

TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera, there are so many other places, in the bible about this satanic ritual, sex orgy and detestable custom being practised, a few case in points, like Deuteronomy 23:17 and 1 Kings 14:24, are mirror versions of Paul's 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:10, where God, said, He so much, disliked intensely, the practice.

To those, getting very well tuned in to this frequency, there is evidence of homosexual(s), during Jesus times, building "church" for the Israelites. There is evidence of homosexual(s), during Jesus time seeking Him. There is evidence of Jesus engaging with homosexual(s) and not for a single moment minded or be bothered about that. Where is the evidence of Jesus objecting to adult consensual same sex couples having a romantic faithful caring and loving relationship until death do them apart etcetera, hmm?

[img]https://s1/images/Abomi.jpg[/img]

What you've repeatedly done is to continually make extraordinary lies, because unlike what you, TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera believe, God never said homosexuality and/or homosexuals per se, was or is an abomination. Shepherd00 had been regurgitating and parrotting this belief, almost all over this thread, living up to the saying, that when the cat is not about, the mouse takes it upon itself to have fun and a field day

People like TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera have being parrying, dodging, sidestepping questions and/or give asked questions, a wide berth. None of them seems able nor capable to respond. They each and all act, in an evasive ways, when explicitly and clearly, asked, easy, simple, sensible, straightforward and direct pointed questions, like about,
1/ Why did God say "homosexuality" is an abomination?
2/ What is the reason why God found allegely "homosexuality" detestable?
3/ What is detestable about adult consensual same sex couples having a romantic faithful caring and loving relationship until death do them apart etcetera?

All and each questions of the three above questions should have been given outright answers, which could be: respond with details, respond with yes, no or I dont know, but what do we see, read or get as responses? Nada, nothing or at worst just proof-texting and doing gra-gra upadan the forum like TV01 and Shepherd00 do. They dont know it is the same historical reason, background and circumstances why God in Leviticus 19:28, was against tatooing, but like in a classic and typical sheeple style and way, hook line and sinker, just believe that, tatooing per se, is a sin. SMH.

Posters like TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera like dropping words, like "perversion" and/or "abomination" to sound big, but asking them why and how "homosexuality" is wicked, is an abomination, is perversion, becomes inexplicably for them to do or answer

They fancifully just drop and use the word "abomination", like as if they're well informed to know the context of how the word originally was used, when in actual fact dont u,nderstand and know.

Well, this thread is already long as it is, so that is why, I have just ordinarily pasted and left the above screenshot there, just for TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera, to stare at and be scratching their heads at too. Anyone interested in wanting to know more on it, should just holler, because even if you know a thousand things, the right is, to ask the man who knows, the one thing you don't know about

There is a lot more in this tank, I still havent scratched the surface, I havent delved into this thing and matter properly at all, all because Shepherd00 finds long posts to be dizzying. Besides, the portal had alreadt auto warned me that this post is too long, thus making me adjust and reduce it. Posters like Ranchhoddas, God bless him, for snapping at me with his interjecting caustic and irritable comments, that just humbles me. "Ni ile aiye, ka sha ma shey daada" loosely translated means "lets just be doing and saying good in this world we are living in" Though I still love you Ranchhoddas, I should be taking back that earlier given "oti sewọn" chilled cold bottle of orijin and a truckload of kolanuts.

My hands are tied for now to continue and go on. I will return whatever serve TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, etcetera brings and possibly might even up the ante a bit. You know maybe, go into the deep end, to increase what is at stake or widen the scope under discussion. So if you dont know how to swim or dont have a life-jacket, just stay on the thread, only be reading and not comment or contribute like sensible jesusjnr, solite3 and others like him do.

[img]https://s1/images/MuttWipesHandSmile.gif[/img]
Watch some people, like TV01 and Shepherd00, in particular, are just a glutton for punishment,
so look out for them, as they gung-ho come back, and get punished more for their gluttony
cc Goshen360, elated177, Image123, jesusjnr, luvmijeje, budaatum, Ranchhoddas, ThothHermes, VBCampaign, Michellekabod2, Baddiezz, Agrogbeide, TV01, Shepherd00, kkins25, fykes, EmperorHarry, Heathen777, Ubenedictus, FOLYKAZE, Paraltero, alBHAGDADI, Maestro21, shadeyinka, HappyPagan, ujnwachukwu, openmine, solite3

What nonsense is this Muttleylaff? Is this a ploy to make me not respond to you?
Lawd I detest tricksters.

MuttleyLaff:
Did you, by any chance, read ALLthe sections where I mentioned Paul at all?

Before you start going on as many translations, you want to embark on, have you studied the historical and biblical context of Leviticus 20:13 at all, hmm? You are saying what the Bible never said, hasn't said and didn't say with how you are interpreting Leviticus 20:13 brother.

bro MuttleyLaff the scriptures i provided is as clear as daylight and are in sync with the scriptures in romans,corinthians and timothy...you yourself agreed that these scriptures had "connections" to each other!

Whether you wish to look for the historic or biblical context is delving deeper into another e-war which i will not succumb to!
The scriptures are clear and rather than oppose them,offer superior scriptures to prove that they are not true or better still buttress your own points by offering scriptures to back your claims that God permits "men to have se.x with men"!

I repeat...the purpose of even coming to this thread or making a comment was because you told me you had scriptures to prove that God permitted homosexual acts ....Please do well to provide such scriptures rather than going round in circles and resorting to rhetorics!

MuttleyLaff:
My brother ultimately we want to have the correct scriptural interpretation and be led by the Holy spirit but this is not going to happen if "the jacket, shirt/blouse, trousers and shoes put on look too big on some of us" We are urged to beef up, grow in and into the Spirit. Fill up and out into jacket, shirt/blouse, trousers and shoes so they fit snuggly and perfectly.

Shepherd00, as a typical full bloodied Naija man that you are, I know you are not very good at saying sorry, but then, you’ve apologised for calling me gay, though you know I am not gay.

An apology is a lovely perfume, it can transform the clumsiest moment into a gracious gift. You apologising to me, doesn't mean you're wrong and somebody is right. It just means you value the peace of mind with yourself and God, more than your ego. I knew it was never your intention to hurt me or cause me pain, so I never was bothered nor took anything to heart

Have you ever noticed, that people would rather stop speaking to you, instead of apologising. The first to apologise is the bravest. The first to forgive is the strongest and the first to forget is the happiest

Sometimes being yourself or you, is not always going to be agreeable to someone else, so I too, I am sorry. I am sorry Shepherd00, for being Me and so apologise to you too brother

PS: Sorry Shepherd00 for the lengthy post up there, that I am seeing you now reading. As dem say, plenty information dey inside one kobo book

I was on transit when I looked in. I couldn't believe you can be this unreasonable to join all the responses together. Pls point me to my posts let me react to them.

HappyPagan:
All I see is emotions, rather than sheep, following a shepherd from thread to thread. Cries and wailings...

Sorry we are not discussing Ancestral concepts here, so have a good day.

Retreat to your shrine quietly

MuttleyLaff:
I hope you are not visually impaired, hmm openmine?.

Some people sha, a three part reply, as he comes on here, saying not a single rebuttal. SMH.

Muttleylaff, how can you even think of using our dexterity to compare with homosexuality?

Maybe you shd post only one scripture where dexterity was mentioned as an issue.

WTH?

MuttleyLaff:
For the sake of crying out loud, in light of the 3-section long lengthy reply I made, could you please provide when and where, in scriptures, God said He hates homosexuals or detests homosexual acts in per se.

Please also show, where God objected to it and I'll do same, showing you Jesus not minding pr objecting to it but actually praised the homosexual for his unmatching faith, and that is besides him, already building a "church" for the Israelites to worship in

U know, I asked you before. Let me ask again. Do you believe God created people with homosexuality tendencies?

Yes or No.

If yes, Why didn't He created Adam and Eve, and then another man? or Eve and Adam, and another woman for the equation to balance.

Why did He created only 2 humans?

Since God didn't have a problem with it, How many people who were homosexuals were used by God?

How many Revivalists or Reformers/Evangelicals were, or are still homosexuals?

God used Gentles to carry out His mandated Agenda both in the old and in the New testament even when He chose the Nation of Israel to be His people, Why didn't he use any homosexuals but gave them over as reprobates?



If you join my posts to all other posts, I will stop responding to you and I will take you for a fraud.

MuttleyLaff:
Please stop this shenanigan crafty games you are playing. You and your clique claim God hates homosexuals and detests the homosexuality acts isn't it? I have painstakingly enumerated how this lie has been perpetrated. I have presented facts, facts that can be verified and fact checked to see if what I type were incorrect.

Just this week, the Pope, has put forward that part of the Lord's prayer in the Bible, should be changed. Well that is yet another mistake and mistranslation he is trying to correct.

Bury your head in the sand, stick to your guns, and hold your foot in the ground, it's no concern to me, if the truth is too harsh for your eyes to see it. I'll soon be shaking off the dust of my slippers concerning you.

.

MuttleyLaff:
Please stop this shenanigan crafty games you are playing. You and your clique claim God hates homosexuals and detests the homosexuality acts isn't it? I have painstakingly enumerated how this lie has been perpetrated. I have presented facts, facts that can be verified and fact checked to see if what I type were incorrect.

Just this week, the Pope, has put forward that part of the Lord's prayer in the Bible, should be changed. Well that is yet another mistake and mistranslation he is trying to correct.

Bury your head in the sand, stick to your guns, and hold your foot in the ground, it's no concern to me, if the truth is too harsh for your eyes to see it. I'll soon be shaking off the dust of my slippers concerning you.

kai. Shame dey catch me for ya behaf. With all my heart, I pray for you. May God have mercy on you, true

MuttleyLaff, Pls let me and you peruse this scripture.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message (MSG)
13[b] “If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.[/b]

Why shd a man who has sex with another man as with a woman be killed?


You mentioned Temple Prostitution or sexual orgies. Let's concentrate on this verse and go back to the history of Leviticus let's see if it says anything relating to Orgies.

Pls, only this verse for now.

Shepherd00:
What nonsense is this Muttleylaff? Is this a ploy to make me not respond to you?
Lawd I detest tricksters

No make me laugh abeg.

I don't want to preempt TV but I think what Muttleylaff is saying is that the verses that appear to condemn homosexuality are mistranslated/misunderstood. That is the summary of his posts.
I'll wait for TV's response before deciding if the thread should be reduced to an issue of Greek etymology.

But Muttleylaff reduce the length of your posts. Some things are just unnecessarily repetitive.
Hit the nail on the head.

Now everyone is mentioning buda in their poo!

Muttley, don't cc me anymore!

MuttleyLaff:
Thank you so very much bloodofthelamb for sticking your head out on to the parapet. You are another of, one of my well respected posters here in Religion, because you are sensible and intelligent. You have not just more sense than common sense but you have sense wiseness too as well

bloodofthelamb, with all due respect, by your own admission, you are advancing opinion(s) on this issue, but the issue has nothing do to with "opinions" meanwhile I, on the other hand, I am gradually unravelling, the truth and presenting the issue, as it really is, with facts. I am about stating facts but others as well as you, are bent on arguing with me, without knowing the facts. This often happens when people dont take the Bible and Bible study seriously, when we are insisted upon, to read the Bible, read it properly and in context, so that we obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and always be able to "rightly divide the word of truth."

It is not like, as if, everything I type, can't be looked up in the Bible, if anyone wants to try prove me wrong. Do some research of your own, on everything you find me type on this thread, to find proof of what I am saying. Believers, should do heavy lifting too and dont be waiting, sitting and looking for other people to do work for them

I read it once that, if a crooked stick is before you, you need not explain how crooked it is. Lay a straight one down by the side of it, and the work is well done. Preach the truth, and error will stand abashed

Homosexuality, per se is not a sin, Fornication, infidelity, betrayal of trust, cheating, emotional harm or trauma etcetera is a sin in a heterosexual relationship, just as it would be in a homosexual relationship

God sees nothing untoward in consensual adult homosexuality, homosexuals/lesbians and/or same sex attraction and union(s), especially one that is in, a kind, trusting, caring, loving, helpful, faithful, honest, not harmful and committed life long until death do them part relationships

Exactly my brother, but she needed not, in that sort of "set-up or frame-up" be condemned anyway bloodofthelamb

Why dont you speak for yourself that homosexuality is a misdirected desire and passion because it isnt your nature to get attracted to someone with same sex as you, hmm?

C'mon now bloodofthelamb, this is like you saying that being lefthanded is a misdirected desire and passion.
Having genuine homosexual behaviour, as in my earlier, stated clearly and in detail, context, respect and/or circumstances, is no more abnormal than being lefthanded is bloodofthelamb. It is not evil, it is not doing anybody harm and/or anyone, as a homosexual/lesbian, arent necessarily harming others with it

Being gay, is like, being left handed. Just as some people are left handed, so, some people aren't. Nobody really knows why, except for, it's because we live in an imperfect world. It is not a matter of right or wrong here bloodofthelamb. It is a matter of thats just the way things are, that's just the way they turned out and so it is that, there is nothing abnormal in two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a life long caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving each other lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Is it possible, that love can be extraordinary, that, there is love wonderful and passing the love of women? Of course, yes, for some, there is and it is biblical

They are as bad as Pharisees. I see them as 21st century or modern age Pharisees. Have you noticed and seen how solite3 went AWOL and tight-lipped, after I ask him to tell me, solite3, when last did he lie and when does he think his next lie will be?

Exactly but at the point bloodofthelamb, where you said, I am wrong on this stand, you sorely are mistaken and it is a right sorry heart wrenching shame for me to see you like this

bloodofthelamb, if homosexuality is an abomination, thank God it isnt homosexuality per se, that is an abomination, but then if it was or say for the sake of a bloodofthelamb argument it is, then isnt it, just as bad as being a liar and/or lying? If hypothetically it is that homosexuality is a sin and/or an abomination, then why are people behaving in unpleasant ways towards homosexual(s)? Why are homosexuals singled out to bear/take/suffer etcetera the brunt of discrimination, hatred, violence, fear of their lives etcetera, huh? Is it because believers think that they are more important than they really are, when compared with fellow human beings, who by no choice of theirs, except for epigenetics, have same sex attraction, similarly like having to be lefthanded, hmm?
cc openmine

this thread is not about lying but homosexuality.

You said homosexuality is not a sin
I have not said lying is not a sin.

What you try to achieve is something like this,

Is murder a sin? Have you ever lied? If yes, why do you condemn murder since you also tell lies. Are you not a pharisee then?

A pharisee is someone who justify other sins while condemning other sins.

I have not justified any sin but you muttylaff try to justify homosexuality by using ad hominem whereas the bible clearly condemn it.

Show me where God support homosexuality in the bible?
Why do you think God gave the law? Is it not to convict sinners but when you condemn the law does it not make you a sinner? How will sinners be saved if the law is ignored?
If you call yourself a Christian but you condemn or try to change the law my friend you are not saved, you dont know God.
Jesus came with grace and truth. When you ignore the truth you cant have grace.

Shepherd00:
I was on transit when I looked in. I couldn't believe you can be this unreasonable to join all the responses together. Pls point me to my posts let me react to them.

It is you who is being unreasonable here, if you weren't, you will admit and acknowledge each place where I know it pertains to you I appended your moniker as a mention, sometimes, by itself or alongside TV01

Shepherd00:
U know, I asked you before. Let me ask again. Do you believe God created people with homosexuality tendencies?

Yes or No.

If yes, Why didn't He created Adam and Eve, and then another man? or Eve and Adam, and another woman for the equation to balance.

Why did He created only 2 humans?

Since God didn't have a problem with it, How many people who were homosexuals were used by God?

How many Revivalists or Reformers/Evangelicals were, or are still homosexuals?

God used Gentles to carry out His mandated Agenda both in the old and in the New testament even when He chose the Nation of Israel to be His people, Why didn't he use any homosexuals but gave them over as reprobates?

If you join my posts to all other posts, I will stop responding to you and I will take you for a fraud.

The problem with you, openmine and possibly others, is you both and them, having trouble reading sentences more than 3-6 lines.

This is evidenced in that though I've already numerous times in the past answered your question in the affirmative, I also recently, as in my post today, advance the information that some people are born gay. I even further dropped in epigenetic(s)

Now you are asking me how many homosexuals God used even after I had volunteered and advance information that a homosexual built "church" for the Israelites to worship in. I bet you'll be asking for the Bible reference of this next.

I don't mind being Bob the Builder, but not ready to be Bob the Builder, to build you up in this matter. Anybody else but not you Shepherd00.

Please stop asking me these unreasonable questions, especially when facts shows, tells and confirm that homosexual are always less than 5% of the world's population at every and any other time.

Let me also inform you because you seem to have forgotten that until after the finished work on Calvary not everyone was allowed or permitted to work in service for God

Ranchhoddas:
No make me laugh abeg.

I don't want to preempt TV but I think what Muttleylaff is saying is that the verses that appear to condemn homosexuality are mistranslated/misunderstood. That is the summary of his posts.
I'll wait for TV's response before deciding if the thread should be reduced to an issue of Greek etymology.

But Muttleylaff reduce the length of your posts. Some things are just unnecessarily repetitive.
Hit the nail on the head.

You are the only one so far, who seems to be the voice of reason and I am a little surprised. You are the only who sees what I am and have been saying. You are the only one, who is using the head and not letting the heart becloud clear discernment and good judgement.

Aside etymology my dear friend, besides the lies in translation of certain words, there are the lies with misinterpreting content too. Of course, content is King, but it is context that is the King Maker. Context influences content Ranchhoddas.

Leviticus 20:13 and her sister other Leviticus verse have being lied about that it was about homosexual acts per se, when that is very far from the case and not true. All these to some degree, I have mentioned in my 3-part long post

solite3:
this thread is not about lying but homosexuality.

You said homosexuality is not a sin
I have not said lying is not a sin.

What you try to achieve is something like this,

Is murder a sin? Have you ever lied? If yes, why do you condemn murder since you also tell lies. Are you not a pharisee then?

A pharisee is someone who justify other sins while condemning other sins.

I have not justified any sin but you muttylaff try to justify homosexuality by using ad hominem whereas the bible clearly condemn it.

Show me where God support homosexuality in the bible?
Why do you think God gave the law? Is it not to convict sinners but when you condemn the law does it not make you a sinner? How will sinners be saved if the law is ignored?
If you call yourself a Christian but you condemn or try to change the law my friend you are not saved, you dont know God.
Jesus came with grace and truth. When you ignore the truth you cant have grace.

The point I was making, particularly with you solite3, is your hollier than thou stance, behaving as if you have no sin, behaving as if you don't lie, and so have the right and audacity to forget about the log beam in your eyes, to be pointing at a non founding speck in another person's eyes.

You like, I've previously told you or somebody else before are unrighteously judging somebody else.

Where there is love, you will see God's support there because God is love and love is all God is about.

MuttleyLaff:
You are the only one so far, who seems to be the voice of reason and I am a little surprised. You are the only who sees what I am and have been saying. You are the only one, who is using the head and not letting the heart becloud clear discernment and good judgement.

Aside etymology my dear friend, besides the lies in translation of certain words, there are the lies with misinterpreting content too. Of course, content is King, but it is context that is the King Maker. Context influences content Ranchhoddas.

Leviticus 20:13 and her sister other Leviticus verse have being lied about that it was about homosexual acts per se, when that is very far from the case and not true. All these to some degree, I have mentioned in my 3-part long post

Misinterpreting by whom? The Bible writers or your interlocutors?

MuttleyLaff:
The problem with you, openmine and possibly others, is you both and them, having trouble reading sentences more than 3-6 lines.

This is evidenced in that though I've already numerous times in the past answered your question in the affirmative, I also recently, as in my post today, advance the information that some people are born gay.

Bro what what trouble do you think we have with you?
Am confused....Is it the fact that you cant provide scriptures to back your claims or is it that hard to find?
I took my time to go through your rebuttals,and not one gave any evidence or proved that your submissions are right ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES!
At the risk of sounding like a broken record,bro MuttleyLaff you said you had stone wall proof from the bible to substantiate your claims about homosexuality!
You even went further by stating (though erroneously or intentionally) that God PERMITS or if i may be literal,he loves such acts as he would love a believer do God's work!
Now as preposterous as this may sound from a believer,i patiently welcomed a submission hoping i would see something i haven't seen from the scriptures...instead,i see a brother trying in vain to rewrite or twist straightforward and explicit scriptures that prove once again that our lord almighty is against such shameful acts!

Like i have said for the umpteenth time,please provide scriptures to prove God LOVES homosexual acts....Thats the only play you have right now! No twists or being rhetorical or plenty words that go no where!

Like someone rightly said,just hit the nail on the head!

However if you keep insisting on this evasive and rhetorical repetitions,then i will conclude you have nothing to say about your submissions!

Ranchhoddas:
Misinterpreting by whom? The Bible writers or your interlocutors?

Have you heard the latest news hmm? That the Pope, is pushing, that part of the Lord's Prayer, in the Bible, be changed?

Answering your curiosity, of course, by Bible writers/translators because of ideology, politics etcetera and interlocutors on this thread, due to what they've been taught, what they've learnt, and learned without doing their own personal study or research into the word.

openmine:
Bro what what trouble do you think we have with you?
Am confused....Is it the fact that you cant provide scriptures to back your claims or is it that hard to find?
I took my time to go through your rebuttals,and not one gave any evidence or proved that your submissions are right ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES!
At the risk of sounding like a broken record,bro MuttleyLaff you said you had stone wall proof from the bible to substantiate your claims about homosexuality!
You even went further by stating (though erroneously or intentionally) that God PERMITS or if i may be literal,he loves such acts as he would love a believer do God's work!
Now as preposterous as this may sound from a believer,i patiently welcomed a submission hoping i would see something i haven't seen from the scriptures...instead,i see a brother trying in vain to rewrite or twist straightforward and explicit scriptures that prove once again that our lord almighty is against such shameful acts!

Like i have said for the umpteenth time,please provide scriptures to prove God LOVES homosexual acts....Thats the only play you have right now! No twists or being rhetorical or plenty words that go no where!

Like someone rightly said,just hit the nail on the head!

However if you keep insisting on this evasive and rhetorical repetitions,then i will conclude you have nothing to say about your submissions!

If I am really bro to you, then please stop twisting my words, stop misrepresenting and stop misquoting me. Stop saying things I have never said, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone has a trouble or problem with me but said what Shepherd00 problem is, which it looks like you share with him.

Let me make all this easy for you, as I am a fair, generous and accommodating person hmm? Why don't you state what my submissions are and state how according to scripture and to you, I am wrong.

Is God, not love, is God not in where love abides hmm openmine, if yes, then, what is your problem erh, why are you demonising this kind of love, huh? Why are you cursing, what God has not cursed?

MuttleyLaff:
The point I was making, particularly with you solite3, is your hollier than thou stance, behaving as if you have no sin, behaving as if you don't lie, and so have the right and audacity to forget about the log beam in your eyes, to be pointing at a non founding speck in another person's eyes.

You like, I've previously told you or somebody else before are unrighteously judging somebody else.

Where there is love, you will see God's support there because God is love and love is all God is about.

how did I judge someone else?
Show me where I condem homosexuals?
Show me where God support homosexuality?
At bold read John 3:16
God love sinners what did he do for them?
If you love a sick person what do you do?
Take them to the hospital or turn a blind eye to the sickness?

Unfortunately for you and your ilks the one who takes the sick man to the hospital didnt show love.


Face the fact your point has been that homosexuality is not sin it is not a matter of showing love, you only use that to garner sentiment.

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You point has been that God is a liar while you are the true one.

Also that because God hates and judges sin then he does not have love.

HappyPagan:
All I see is emotions, rather than sheep, following a shepherd from thread to thread. Cries and wailings...

MuttleyLaff:
If I am really bro to you, then please stop twisting my words, stop misrepresenting and stop misquoting me. Stop saying things I have never said, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone has a problem with but said what Shepherd00 problem is, which it looks like you share with him.

Let me make all this easy for you, as I am a fair, generous and accommodating person hmm? Why don't you state what my submissions are and state how according to scripture and to you, I am wrong.

Is God, not love, is God not in where love abides hmm openmine, if yes, then, what is your problem erh, why are you demonising this kind of love, huh? Why are you cursing, what God has not cursed?

Am not twisting your words....or do you want me to make it easier for you to comprehend your own submissions?
Were you not the one who said God doesnt see anything wrong with homosexuals?

Does that not imply according to you,that God permits and allows such acts?

So where did I twist your very words?

Rather its you that has an issue trying to buttress your points with scriptures and using long posts to cover up your obvious lack of scriptures to back your claims!

You are still being evasive and trying so hard to manipulate me into answering your own questions based on your earlier submissions!
What you are doing is clearly being rhetorical!

I also can't point anything out of your submissions because you are yet to provide scriptures to prove your assertions!

Its only when I get your own scriptures proof that God permits or allows homosexuals,that I will make my points known to you!

solite3:
how did I judge someone else?
Show me where I condem homosexuals?
Show me where God support homosexuality?
At bold read John 3:16
God love sinners what did he do for them?
If you love a sick person what do you do?
Take them to the hospital or turn a blind eye to the sickness?

Unfortunately for you and your ilks the one who takes the sick man to the hospital didnt show love.


Face the fact your point has been that homosexuality is not sin it is not a matter of showing love, you only use that to garner sentiment.

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You point has been that God is a liar while you are the true one.

Also that because God hates and judges sin then he does not have love.

You judge by demonising faithful, trusting, caring, homosexual acts in a loving relationship.

You are the liar, not God, lying about everything including lying against me, saying what the Bible hasn't said, and saying what I too haven't said. You will answer to God for all these and for your hating.

What evil is there in homosexual acts that is in a faithful caring, trusting, loving relationship between two consenting adults openmine huh?

openmine:

Am not twisting your words....or do you want me to make it easier for you to comprehend your own submissions?
Were you not the one who said God doesnt see anything wrong with homosexuals?

Does that not imply according to you,that God permits and allows such acts?

So where did I twist your very words?

Rather its you that has an issue trying to buttress your points with scriptures and using long posts to cover up your obvious lack of scriptures to back your claims!

You are still being evasive and trying so hard to manipulate me into answering your own questions based on your earlier submissions!
What you are doing is clearly being rhetorical!

I also can't point anything out of your submissions because you are yet to provide scriptures to prove your assertions!

Its only when I get your own scriptures proof that God permits or allows homosexuals,that I will make my points known to you!

I have exposed your lies and misinterpreted verses you clobber homosexuals with. You ignore context but put content on head like a shrimp, strutting your hollier than thou self, believing that homosexuals are human beings with mental disorder etcetera. Shame on you.

MuttleyLaff:
You judge by demonising faithful, trusting, caring, homosexual acts in a loving relationship.

You are the liar, not God, lying about everything including lying against me, saying what the Bible hasn't said, and saying what I too haven't said. You will answer to God for all these and for your hating.

What evil is there in homosexual acts that is in a faithful caring, trusting, loving relationship between two consenting adults openmine huh?

Wrong bro!
What is wrong is wrong no matter how you paint it!
A goat will always be a goat!
A dog will always bark like a dog!
An eagle will always soar like an eagle no matter how you want to make it look like a chicken!

Whatever manipulation or sentiments you try to implore will never take away the fact that,based on scriptures, such acts no matter the intentions will never and can never be right!

You cannot steal and still justify the reason why you stole!
You can't have sex with your neighbours wife simply because the husband does sexually satisfy her!

But you know what?

I will gladly allow you offer scriptures and corresponding ones that prove that God permits or supports "homosexual acts that is in a faithful caring, trusting, loving relationship"!!

I await your rebuttal with scriptures!