TAO11:


Smiles! It appears to me that you have other motives than your original contention which you raised when you first 'mentioned' me.

Let me state very clearly that my objective for replying you now is not to debate any issue and every issue just for the sake of debating. No, my objective is to address only the specific issue which you had originally mentioned me on. So, I may not be distracted.

Having said that, if I understand correctly, your original contention was that the "vertical line facial markings" simply represents temporary facial tattoos, and that "vertical line facial markings" were never used as scarification at any time in Ife society.

In reply to your contention, I adduced three strands of independent evidence, each showing that the "vertical line facial markings" does indeed represent scarification; and that the practice later came to be forbidden and outlawed among Ife resident members.

The following are the three strands of independent evidence of scarification I adduced:

(a) Suzanne P. Blier's scholarly submission published in a prestigious peer-reviewed journal (not a book as you presumed) which she gave on the basis of a received corpus of oral traditions from Ife, and not on the basis of her imagination as you've apparently presumed.

(b) Indigenous Adepegba Cornelius O. 1976 which had noted, about thirty-six years before Blier Suzanne P. 2012, that the "vertical line facial markings" represent facial scarifications.

(c) A photograph showing, in black and white, that the vertical line facial scarification is a cultural reality.


My expectation of your reply was that you would demonstrate the following with scholarly evidence:

(a) How Blier's submission on this specific issue (as well as the review of the expert team of African Arts Journal reviewers, on the same specific issue) are all based on nothing but their respective imaginations, rather than based on the received corpus of oral traditions from Ife.

(b) How Adepegba's submission too in this specific regard, which is thirty-six years earlier than Blier's, is also based on nothing but his imagination, rather than on the basis of received corpus of oral traditions from Ife.

(c) And how the attached photograph which clearly shows vertical facial scarification is nothing more than an optical illusion messing with everyone's mind.

(d) After which I expected that you would then adduce scholarly evidence to substantiate your claim that such "vertical line facial markings" were never used as scarification in Ife.


Nay, you didn't do any of the foregoing, but rather you went on to submit your views on other matters (such as opa Oranmiyan, Ife-Yoruba dialect, Ogun Alaka-aiye, etc.) in relation to which you disagree with the renowned leading Havard Professor and Historian of African Art, who in her several years of experience has consulted widely in Ile-Ife on the corpus of Ife traditions, and have directly examined the materials and artefacts first hand --- materials which you probably haven't come any close to, except digitally.

However, whether you think you're right and Suzanne P. Blier, et al. among other experts are all wrong on all these other issues (i.e. opa Oranmiyan, Ife-Yoruba dialect, Ogun Alaka-aiye, etc.) is not what I want to be distracted by, or dragged into; the fallacy of your argument here is what I intend to point out.

You can not maintain that an individual is wrong on a certain specific issue just for the sole reason that you believe they are wrong on some other issues. Such reasoning/argument is a failed one. It is an inductive logical fallacy known in argumentation as faulty generalization or the pars pro toto fallacy.



If after the three strands of independent evidence I have adduced you still maintain that such "vertical line facial markings" were never used as scarification in Ife; then your task, as I have mentioned earlier, is simply to demonstrate:


(a) How Blier's submission on this specific issue (as well as the review of the expert team of African Arts Journal reviewers, on the same specific issue) are all based on nothing but their collective imaginations, rather than based on the received corpus of oral traditions from Ife.

(b) How Adepegba's submission too on this specific issue; which is thirty-six years earlier than Blier's; is also based on nothing but his imagination, rather than on the basis of received corpus of oral traditions from Ife.

(c) How the attached photograph which clearly shows vertical facial scarification is nothing more than an optical illusion messing with everyone's mind.

(d) And to then adduce scholarly evidence to substantiate your claim that such "vertical line facial markings" were never used as scarification in Ife.


Cheers!

It is obvious you have confined me over my overzealousness and I shall be within the confinement Sir. But you need consider such personality as mine even if you don't understand my school of thought,which is purity ideology; not black mentally nor Caucasian apologist but the ‘light' believer. And I am sure you know light don't burn but produces leverage heat(now recognised as electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 400-750 nm), within which vision is possible.

So, a failure in an area of study has never been seen by I as an avenue to compete or quit . Instead, it is a catalyst which propels my spiritman to be more humble before my creator(eleda) and humanity. Thus, it is not an offence to err or I see a different angle to the scarification,which have been analysed before now by other until Suzzane Blier, ,which you hold her interpretation in high regard as I did (past). Therefore, I posit as follow to your questions:

A
i. Yoruba ancestors were not barbaric to make linear permanent scarification on the their belly as seen in other groups in Africa, which were found in one of the king's body. Instead, it is for ritual purpose because a semitc group did this also. I am sure you are aware these kings are part of Yoruba history and ancestors to all of us. And I am yet to see anyone in Nigeria or west Africa to claimed Yoruba ancestors as their descendants or equal their mastery in Visual Art work. Furthermore, I am sure you are aware that even the Greek in their glory could not match Yorubas alloy work or copper visual Art being displayed in Europe talk less of others during their era. Verify my assertion.


ii. Scarification of such magnitude aren't done on the eyelid's tiny area of the face in Yoruba land. Verify my assertion.


iii. Scarification are never done on the tip of the nostril in Yoruba land,which is seen on the heads. It is also not seen on the screenshot which you compared with the Yoruba kings. Verify my assertion


iii. Scarification is not done on the tip of the lips that's seen on some of the heads but artistry work or archaic method of moulding the Visual Art work. Verify my assertion


iv. The difference in crowns and caps were because of different era of Yoruba kings. Kindly do research on crown's history, in Africa's and Near East's worldview. Verify my assertion


v. Bétamarribé is a tribe in Benin Republic that has a more tinier scarification as seen in your claim of the Yoruba kings but not a justification of autochthon, in Ileife Nigeria,because itbhas nothing to do with the Yoruba's kings and their different era of reign.
Verify my assertion.

vi. The Ileife people who were told of these differences remembered only the war of Oranmia(oranmiyan) are supposed to know this information yet a non indigenous custodians were seen as identifying who was who in Yoruba kingly lineage . What a pity! Verify this information

B. Your answer is in (A-i). Beside, wisdom during the era of Adepegba over three decades ago is different in today's Yoruba's worldview.

C. Your answer is in (A iii)

D. Scholarly adduction will surface because each work done on a subject matter as this magnitude and as regard humanity are always criticised by incoming scholars. So wait for it. Beside, I decided to point this direction to you so that you can be critic of it because I have followed you orderly references scholarly arrangement.


Conclusion:
The crowns, caps represent different people and different era in yoruba kings lists, which have been lost briefly but not outrightly because the written scroll on Yoruba ethnicity is out there begging to be unraveled. Kindly do research on Africa'sand Near East's worldview on kings crown to understand their reason for the stylistic caps of Yoruba Bá( O bá).




Cheers

Olu317:



It is obvious you have confined me over my overzealousness and I shall be within the confinement Sir. But you need consider such personality as mine even if you don't understand my school of thought,which is purity ideology; not black mentally nor Caucasian apologist but the ‘light' believer. And I am sure you know light don't burn but produces leverage heat(now recognised as electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 400-750 nm), within which vision is possible.

So, a failure in an area of study has never been seen by I as an avenue to compete or quit . Instead, it is a catalyst which propels my spiritman to be more humble before my creator(eleda) and humanity. Thus, it is not an offence to err or I see a different angle to the scarification,which have been analysed before now by other until Suzzane Blier, ,which you hold her interpretation in high regard as I did (past). Therefore, I posit as follow to your questions:

A
i. Yoruba ancestors were not barbaric to make linear permanent scarification on the their belly as seen in other groups in Africa, which were found in one of the king's body. Instead, it is for ritual purpose because a semitc group did this also. I am sure you are aware these kings are part of Yoruba history and ancestors to all of us. And I am yet to see anyone in Nigeria or west Africa to claimed Yoruba ancestors as their descendants or equal their mastery in Visual Art work. Furthermore, I am sure you are aware that even the Greek in their glory could not match Yorubas alloy work or copper visual Art being displayed in Europe talk less of others during their era. Verify my assertion.


ii. Scarification of such magnitude aren't done on the eyelid's tiny area of the face in Yoruba land. Verify my assertion.


iii. Scarification are never done on the tip of the nostril in Yoruba land,which is seen on the heads. It is also not seen on the screenshot which you compared with the Yoruba kings. Verify my assertion


iii. Scarification is not done on the tip of the lips that's seen on some of the heads but artistry work or archaic method of moulding the Visual Art work. Verify my assertion


iv. The difference in crowns and caps were because of different era of Yoruba kings. Kindly do research on crown's history, in Africa's and Near East's worldview. Verify my assertion


v. Bétamarribé is a tribe in Benin Republic that has a more tinier scarification as seen in your claim of the Yoruba kings but not a justification of autochthon, in Ileife Nigeria,because itbhas nothing to do with the Yoruba's kings and their different era of reign.
Verify my assertion.

vi. The Ileife people who were told of these differences remembered only the war of Oranmia(oranmiyan) are supposed to know this information yet a non indigenous custodians were seen as identifying who was who in Yoruba kingly lineage . What a pity! Verify this information

B. Your answer is in (A-i). Beside, wisdom during the era of Adepegba over three decades ago is different in today's Yoruba's worldview.

C. Your answer is in (A iii)

D. Scholarly adduction will surface because each work done on a subject matter as this magnitude and as regard humanity are always criticised by incoming scholars. So wait for it. Beside, I decided to point this direction to you so that you can be critic of it because I have followed you orderly references scholarly arrangement.


Conclusion:
The crowns, caps represent different people and different era in yoruba kings lists, which have been lost briefly but not outrightly because the written scroll on Yoruba ethnicity is out there begging to be unraveled. Kindly do research on Africa'sand Near East's worldview on kings crown to understand their reason for the stylistic caps of Yoruba Bá( O bá).


Cheers

Honestly speaking, your comment here is (to me) at best rough, and at worst incomprehensible and unintelligible --- I hesitate to say it is gibberish.

I genuinely appeal to anyone here who is able to glean the meaning of this comment (as well as how it relates to the specific exchange here) to please assist me with an intelligible rendition of it.

However, I suspect that this comment of yours is still to the same effect as your earlier comments, namely that:

The scholarly and expert submissions of Adepegba 1975 and Blier 2012 (both based on "Ife oral tradition") should be trashed; while your personal wish/word-of-mouth (which is based on ?) should be upheld.

I am not absolutely certain what impression of yourself you're trying give off by insisting that your "amateurish" wish must be accepted instead of expert and scholarly submissions which are based on the traditions.

But if you still insist --- even now --- that the "vertical line facial markings" do not represent "scarification" (even as "Ife oral tradition" says it does), then I should now be wise enough to "agree" with you that you are right, and the experts (as well as the custodians of "Ife oral tradition" themselves) are wrong

Have a good one!

TAO11:



Honestly speaking, your comment here is (to me) at best rough, and at worst incomprehensible and unintelligible --- I hesitate to say it is gibberish.

I genuinely appeal to anyone here who is able to glean the meaning of this comment (as well as how it relates to the specific exchange here) to please assist me with an intelligible rendition of it.

However, I suspect that this comment of yours is still to the same effect as your earlier comments, namely that:

The scholarly and expert submissions of Adepegba 1975 and Blier 2012 (both based on "Ife oral tradition") should be trashed; while your personal wish/word-of-mouth (which is based on ?) should be upheld.

I am not absolutely certain what impression of yourself you're trying give off by insisting that your "amateurish" wish must be accepted instead of expert and scholarly submissions which are based on the traditions.

But if you still insist --- even now --- that the "vertical line facial markings" do not represent "scarification" (even as "Ife oral tradition" says it does), then I should now be wise enough to "agree" with you that you are right, and the experts (as well as the custodians of "Ife oral tradition" ) are wrong

Have a good one!

Oh I see ! So the custodians know everything? Oh k .

1.These same custodians who cant identify Obatiseala and Odua father respectively?

2.The same custodians that read through Suzzane Blier's Journal who claimed Yoruba ancestors were sungod worshippers and Earth worshippers?

3.Even amongst these same set of Yoruba custodians cum early Christians scholars claimed Yẹ̀ṣùà(ẹ̀ṣù) as satan, while Hebrew: Yeshua, ; English : Jesus(Jèsù) is the messenger of God ?

4. Who is Yeshua? Who is ẹ̀ẹ̀ṣù?

Thus, my conclusion is that this post remained a reference point in the future so that experts who peruse through this site can carefully do justice to the actual interpretation from different angle of the present.Perhaps I shall use Afro asiatic of Kemet era and Semitic(antiquity) language, history to justify my assertion.


Stay blessed

Olu317:


Oh I see ! So the custodians know everything? Oh k .

1.These same custodians who cant identify Obatiseala and Odua father respectively?

2.The same custodians that read through Suzzane Blier's Journal who claimed Yoruba ancestors were sungod worshippers and Earth worshippers?

3.Even amongst these same set of Yoruba custodians cum early Christians scholars claimed Yẹ̀ṣùà(ẹ̀ṣù) as satan, while Hebrew: Yeshua, ; English : Jesus(Jèsù) is the messenger of God ?

4. Who is Yeshua? Who is ẹ̀ẹ̀ṣù?

Thus, my conclusion is that this post remained a reference point in the future so that experts who peruse through this site can carefully do justice to the actual interpretation from different angle of the present.Perhaps I shall use Afro asiatic of Kemet era and Semitic(antiquity) language, history to justify my assertion.


Stay blessed

Did I not just "agree" that you (mere enthusiast & pseudohistorian) are right about Ife traditions; while experts/scholars are wrong, and that the custodians of Ife traditions are also wrong about their own traditions??

Did I not just "agree" to that concerning the issue of facial markings as scarification or temporary marking??

Did I not??

TAO11:


Did I not just "agree" that you (mere enthusiast & pseudohistorian) are right about Ife traditions; while experts/scholars are wrong, and that the custodians of Ife traditions are also wrong about their own traditions??

Did I not just "agree" to that concerning the issue of facial markings as scarification or temporary marking??

Did I not??

You did Sir.




Cheers.

Nice one, really makes sense, it's good to always know your background

Olu317:


You did Sir.




Cheers.

Okay Ma!

TAO11:


Okay Ma!

Haaaa! I sense I have offended you as regard my surmision of you being a man . I guess, it was due to the fact that some men have polluted my mind of being mischievous about their sex .Kindly forgive me ma'am because of this mistake.

Nevertheless, I am a Man and not a lady. In truth, I underestimated a Nigerian lady's prowess in the culture section because such as type are rare. I must confess, you have been highly instructive and orderly in all yours posts and references.


God bless you ma'am,





Cheers

Unlimitk:

I'm ekiti and I noticed d Bini influence in my state
Many Yoruba towns up to kwara had Bini influence, including bishop oyedepo town omu aran,I've seen d pic of first king of omu aran dressing like oba of Benin in 1945
I've seen d influences of Bini in ekiti and ondo states clearly
But as time went on u have to understand people change with religion and environment as factor
Bini empire was great no doubt,but everything Has changed
I'm ekiti but I don't hear or speak ekiti dialect
Most Yorubas now only speak d popular central Yoruba we all speak, even I've seen Yorubas of kogi west complaining of losing their dialects to central Yoruba
That's just how it is
For now the only thing d bini ppl have is their past, no other tribe claim them because they want to b part of big 3 tribes in Nigeria, it is also happening to northern minority with d Hausa stuff
I'm sorry but that's just d fact

what are you saying bro,,, You will say ekiti dress like typical ife people ..Benin royal dressing is ife ...beads dressing and wrapper tying

Olu317:
Haaaa! I sense I have offended you as regard my surmision of you being a man . I guess, it was due to the fact that some men have polluted my mind of being mischievous about their sex .Kindly forgive me ma'am because of this mistake.

Nevertheless, I am a Man and not a lady. In truth, I underestimated a Nigerian lady's prowess in the culture section because such as type are rare. I must confess, you have been highly instructive and orderly in all yours posts and references.


God bless you ma'am,





Cheers

I want to believe @TAO11 is a She, unless she says otherwise. I respect her knowledge and scholastic approach to cultural issues. She earns my respect too. I think both could collaborate and possibly unravel and share some hidden histories about the Yorubas. There is something special about the race. I am just curious...

I am yet to see a lady that's this deep in cultural and traditional histories.

geosegun:


I want to believe @TAO11 is a She, unless she says otherwise. I respect her knowledge and scholastic approach to cultural issues. She earns my respect too. I think both could collaborate and possibly unravel and share some hidden histories about the Yorubas. There is something special about the race. I am just curious...

I am yet to see a lady that's this deep in cultural and traditional histories.

Good day to you Sir, interestingly, you and I share same name if indeed yours start with my own moniker's ID.

As regarding your view TAO11's identity? As far as I am concerned at this moment, you are 100% accurate ,which in actual fact shocked my conscience beyond my wildest imagination. That being affirmed truthfully posit a great future for Yoruba's female generation because such personality are rare and hopefully more her will appear for good.

On collaboration:

Without iota of doubt, you arent wrong about your perception but there is a clause; ‘selfless ',which remains, what can propel me to work with anyone. Even you, have actually underestimated your personality before me, because I am not ‘one man show believer', because the more in numbers the merrier. In plain term,I see you also as partner in progress.

On the groundbreaking on Yoruba history cum languaage qand its obscurity:

This has been revealed by the sovereign God unto me, through grace and my studying, because without the power of creation( Ela),it will be an impossible feat for me to achieve. Plainly, I have matched what need matched from hieroglyphs. Fortunately, the beauty of knowledge is ‘sharing'. In this regard, remain the reason for our own people to learn what I have learned, do research on area of interest but neglected in the past, criticise the work and eventually good for a summit in western world.

Interestingly, caucasians' big bang theory is defined, as ‘Light'(English), which is the sources (now recognised as electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 400-750 nm), within which vision is(exist). In Yoruba's cosmology,this is what Eala or ‘Álá' means (light). The striking semblance is Ellah in Classical Hebrew and Allah in Arabic.

Furthermore, Olumide started something massive about Yoruba people but Biobaku(Professor) condemned this man's researched work because he, Olumide was not actually a historian. Al Ilori (Islamic) went further to justify Yoruba's cognates with Arabic word, which he, and others thought were because of Islamic religion? A false perception.

In search of Yoruba obscure identity and her language , Folorunso (2009: p. 16) is of the opinion that the origin of the Yoruba people remains uncertain, that no definite knowledge has emerged.

Today, I have researched and still researching Yoruba independently beyond Nigeria's shore. Interestingly, I have answers to many things but which will take close to five+(5+), years to unravel, because of factors as you had concluded on ‘Collaboration and with addition of Semitic studying by my collaborators.

God bless you Sir,


Cheers,


Olù

Olu317:


Good day to you Sir, interestingly, you and I share same name if indeed yours start with my own moniker's ID.

As regarding your view TAO11's identity? As far as I am concerned at this moment, you are 100% accurate ,which in actual fact shocked my conscience beyond my wildest imagination. That being affirmed truthfully posit a great future for Yoruba's female generation because such personality are rare and hopefully more her will appear for good.

On collaboration:

Without iota of doubt, you arent wrong about your perception but there is a clause; ‘selfless ',which remains, what can propel me to work with anyone. Even you, have actually underestimated your personality before me, because I am not ‘one man show believer', because the more in numbers the merrier. In plain term,I see you also as partner in progress.

On the groundbreaking on Yoruba history cum languaage qand its obscurity:

This has been revealed by the sovereign God unto me, through grace and my studying, because without the power of creation( Ela),it will be an impossible feat for me to achieve. Plainly, I have matched what need matched from hieroglyphs. Fortunately, the beauty of knowledge is ‘sharing'. In this regard, remain the reason for our own people to learn what I have learned, do research on area of interest but neglected in the past, criticise the work and eventually good for a summit in western world.

Interestingly, caucasians' big bang theory is defined, as ‘Light'(English), which is the sources (now recognised as electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 400-750 nm), within which vision is(exist). In Yoruba's cosmology,this is what Eala or ‘Álá' means (light). The striking semblance is Ellah in Classical Hebrew and Allah in Arabic.

Furthermore, Olumide started something massive about Yoruba people but Biobaku(Professor) condemned this man's researched work because he, Olumide was not actually a historian. Al Ilori (Islamic) went further to justify Yoruba's cognates with Arabic word, which he, and others thought were because of Islamic religion? A false perception.

In search of Yoruba obscure identity and her language , Folorunso (2009: p. 16) is of the opinion that the origin of the Yoruba people remains uncertain, that no definite knowledge has emerged.

Today, I have researched and still researching Yoruba independently beyond Nigeria's shore. Interestingly, I have answers to many things but which will take close to five+(5+), years to unravel, because of factors as you had concluded on ‘Collaboration and with addition of Semitic studying by my collaborators.

God bless you Sir,


Cheers,


Olù

Waiting for @TAO11 to comment on her highly esteemed opinion

geosegun:


Waiting for @TAO11 to comment on her highly esteemed opinion

Cool

Obalufon:



what are you saying bro,,, You will say ekiti dress like typical ife people ..Benin royal dressing is ife ...beads dressing and wrapper tying

Hmm....lol....my friend can you come with logical prove...i told ur broda who is hiding under a female account that links are irrwlevant but raw proves ...ao come out with raw fact then i will believe you anyone can claim anything i bet you know that

The un learned Benins were even the one fabricating stories causing confusion in the sense that when Yoruba words has these spellings in Benin, they will tell you it is Benin who owned it. Example eg: town like Ogba which all Yoruba's known as a garden Benin will lay a claim. But they still fail to understand that we still have similarities in our names eg: Omawumi : Omowunmi, Adesuwa : Adesewa, Omoluwa: Omo oluwa etc Now, it sound as if the Benis are given them self all the credit forgotten that every Yoruba name has a meaning which maybe similar or entirely different from that of Benin. Just as this "Oba" ague mentation. Just too funny to hear that the name Oba is a Benin word. When I still believe that even the Beni almost bear Yoruba name pls Oba aguement is giving
me headache.

We can solve this issue if we both act in good faith and obey the laws of logics. Please locate some precolonial or early colonial photos of your chiefs like your ooni, or your alafin and so on. Look at the caption written by the people who developed the photo. That will tell you that none of your chiefs had the title "Oba" attached to his name until late in the colonial era. The only person who had that title "Oba" in the precolonial era is the emperor Omo n'Oba n'Edo. That is his title ! The title of your ooni is ooni that of your alafin is alafin that of Omo n'Oba n'Edo is Oba in short.

Your chiefs used to be addressed in this fashion in the early colonial era : ooni of ife, sir adeyeye or alafin of Oyo, sir adeyeye. Notice that the word sir is also not a Yoruba word. Then late in the colonial era, the fashion changed and your chiefs started calling themselves onni of ife, oba adeyeye or alafin Oyo, oba adeyeye.

odus86:
The un learned Benins were even the one fabricating stories causing confusion in the sense that when Yoruba words has these spellings in Benin, they will tell you it is Benin who owned it. Example eg: town like Ogba which all Yoruba's known as a garden Benin will lay a claim. But they still fail to understand that we still have similarities in our names eg: Omawumi : Omowunmi, Adesuwa : Adesewa, Omoluwa: Omo oluwa etc Now, it sound as if the Benis are given them self all the credit forgotten that every Yoruba name has a meaning which maybe similar or entirely different from that of Benin. Just as this "Oba" ague mentation. Just too funny to hear that the name Oba is a Benin word. When I still believe that even the Beni almost bear Yoruba name pls Oba aguement is giving
me headache.

As an Edo, it is annoying to see this cultural appropriation. As a mathematician, I often use the discovery of others, but I give them credit. I don't claim what I didn't create. It doesn't make Yoruba inferior to admit they borrowed the word Oba. The British borrowed the words friend and foe and earl and many other words. They are not denying it.

Prolog 31@

That is not even enough excuses, I av had that times without number. The fact which I'm very sure you were very aware off is that the 7 sons of Oduduwa in seven domain in which they occupy are name that indicate the relationship with Oduduwa. Be very aware that eg Alake does not mean Oba but it is a name given for the purpose of keeping history alive. This was done to keep Oba of Benin as part of the family even though is not a direct son of Oduduwa but for the sake of inlawship. I only notice that the Benis were only looking for excuses and opportunities to fabricate there own version of resemblance. And for your info, the meaning of Oba in all ramifications of Yoruba language is best described as king. If there is a similar meaning in Benin keep it to yourself thanks.

My friend, oduduwa is just a story, a fable, fiction, not reality.
This is what I hate with you yorubas, you can't discuss in good faith and obey logics. I gave you hard facts and logics. You wave it off and serve me a fable and close mindedness. When will you guys decide to think like adults.
I have just proven to you that the yorubas borrowed the word Oba from the Edo. Just like the British borrowed the words friend and foe from the Vikings. They probably also borrowed the word king from the Vikings.

The fact that a word has a meaning in your language does not imply the word wasn't borrowed. "Friend" and "foe" also have meanings in English.

Logics.

odus86:
Prolog 31@

That is not even enough excuses, I av had that times without number. The fact which I'm very sure you were very aware off is that the 7 sons of Oduduwa in seven domain in which they occupy are name that indicate the relationship with Oduduwa. Be very aware that eg Alake does not mean Oba but it is a name given for the purpose of keeping history alive. This was done to keep Oba of Benin as part of the family even though is not a direct son of Oduduwa but for the sake of inlawship. I only notice that the Benis were only looking for excuses and opportunities to fabricate there own version of resemblance. And for your info, the meaning of Oba in all ramifications of Yoruba language is best described as king. If there is a similar meaning in Benin keep it to yourself thanks.

Also, your comment is very vague, I find it hard to understand most of it.

He walks and talk like a MAN does not make him a MAN..
LOL I was expecting to see Kayode.. Ola abi na iya Basila.. all I can see is bleeping white dude.. Taiwo baba dudu the black man.. for Oyingbo Mcheew.. Me I no understand again somebody should please gee history.. left for me eeh na WASH

Unlimitk:

Do u know that the now known lagos state was taken out of remo land and ijebu land in ogun state
Places like sagamu had their land carved into Ogun state and places like ikorodu are part of ijebu land
Most of Lagos now were taken out of ogun state and Lagos is d smallest state in Nigeria
There are many kings in Lagos who don't make noise like oba of Lagos, saying that because he is called oba of Lagos then he controls all of Lagos is a lie
The Lagos oba of Lagos control is very small
Ask anybody
Do u know of oba of elegushi
Oba of ikorodu and so on
Awori ppl are the owner of most of Lagos
The area in Lagos that was under Benin ppl was very small
Do u know there is a place called abule egba in Lagos?
Abule means village in Yoruba language,egba ppl are mostly in Abeokuta in Ogun state, but abule egba was their land before
Many places in the now known Lagos had no influence from Benin
The place oba of Lagos has domain over in Lagos is very small
It is because of d name Lagos,everybody thinks he control everywhere in Lagos
Saying Lagos is Bini land is dumb and stupid
Awori and egba and ijebu ppl land in Lagos alone is more than 70% of Lagos
Are they Benin ppl?

you yoruba will always cook up stories. You guys are from brazil, Dahomey, oyo and Benin Kingdom and the Oba of Lagos owns 100℅ of Lagos.

Mraphel:

ORANMIYAN the first Oba of Benin traces his Origin to ile ife

He told you ?
Seriously, oranmiyan is a fictional caracter. The first Oba of Benin might have lived thousands of years ago. Ife is too young for the first Oba of Benin to come from ife. He most likely came from within the Benin empire.
Ife is not special in any way. I believe ife people migrated from Oyo, Brazil, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey.

arazanbal:



who told you he was the first oba of binis, the ogiso's existed even before is father

grown men should stop discussing fables. Oduduwa, oranmiysn and ogisos are fables, they never existed.

geosegun:


Waiting for @TAO11 to comment on her highly esteemed opinion

Hi geosegun and Olu317:

I feel deeply humbled and pleased by your generous descriptions of my ordinary self. The words are so kind and generous that I feel undeserving of them. Thank you very much.

Regarding gender: It's only courteous and respectful that individuals be addressed only how they've made it quite clear that they want to be addressed (regardless of how "intimidating" or "weak" their words come across as) unless they confirm otherwise on an individual/personal basis.

I personally feel that other people's gender identity should be the least of our problems (if at all it should be part of our problems). We have more urgent, important, pressing, and interesting issues and problems to discuss or solve, I believe.


On "collaboration": Although it is not entirely clear to me what this is to be about; I like to, first of all, acknowledge that your burning and deep passions for anything Yorùbá is not unnoticeable. I really commend you guys for that.

However, I regret to say that I have other views on "collaboration" in this area. I personally do not think that non-scholars/non-academics of Yoruba like us (at least like me) are well placed or equipped to undertake a serious independent investigation of newer areas of Yoruba history.

The idea of not being a scholar or academic of Yoruba is, to me, mutually exclusive to the idea of undertaking a serious investigation.

I feel very strongly that if they're not scholars and academics, then their so-called investigations can not be taken seriously (especially in academia); and if it was a serious investigation, then it was never undertaken by rookies, mere enthusiasts or non-scholars/non-academics.

Some individuals with the appropriate scholarly and academic competence (who have been through the relevant formal training and experience) are best reserved, for such serious work.

Moreover, I believe that a quite thorough investigation of the history of the Yorubas (which looks more closely into the sources, the evidence, and the contemporary or prevailing scholarly consensus) have recently been published in the works of S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of The Yoruba People, Amalion Publishing, 2010.


Lastly, I took up reading Yoruba history and commentary on Nairaland only as a pastime. I do this just to ease off the stress from my other packed and tough engagements in my own area of research/interest. This especially may not allow me the time for other thorough, serious, and novel research into new areas of Yoruba history even if I have the scholarly competence which I believe others (and not me) do have. We should task the experts on new areas of investigation.

This is my humble submission on "collaboration".

Cheers!

gregyboy:


Hmm....lol....my friend can you come with logical prove...i told ur broda who is hiding under a female account that links are irrwlevant but raw proves ...ao come out with raw fact then i will believe you anyone can claim anything i bet you know that

Firstly:
It's called "logical proof" and not "logical prove". Invest some quality time in grasping the difference between the words "proof" and "prove".

Secondly:
It's shocking that you dared ask him for prove [sic] even when you yourself have consistently given me the crappy excuse that you don't have time to provide evidence, proof, or reason whenever I demand that you substantiate your absurd and ridiculous claims.

Thirdly:
You seem to be either intimidated by my apparently scholarly competence, or you're just outrightly misogynistic, or you're both.

Your fear about my gender did not help the argument you should be constructing. It didn't help you a bit. It only exposed your emptiness and base thinking.


Fourthly:
You noted that weblinks (to papers and writings which are either scholarly or of Bini origin, or both) are not enough for you as so-called "raw proves".

Can you then be bold enough to state clearly, in black and white, that what you would respect and acknowledge as a so-called "raw prove" is a stamped physical paper delivered at your Benin address by DHL, FedEx, UPS, or USPS??

Every logical and right thinking person knew long ago that you've already been punished and messed up by my humble self. You're simply just saving-face by clutching at straws. You remind me of the proverbial drowning guy.


Fifthly:
Anyway, just to avoid not fu*king you up one more time, refer below to the attached sculpture:

This attached bronze/brass casting is an ancient sculpture representing an Ife king, and it was excavated from Ita-Yemoo site in Ile-Ife, Nigeria.

It has been scientifically dated, by experts, to the latest of early 14th century CE. In other words, early 1300s.


This is a hard archaeological evidence (dating to more than seven hundred years ago) showing in black and white that Ife kings of old dressed in the same exact regalia described by obalufon; that is "beads dressing and wrapper tying".


Please note that this hard and extant archaeological find depicting an elaborate adornment of beads by this Yoruba king dates to a period (i.e. early 1300) when Benin kingdom had not begun the use of beads at all.


According to Benin's own tradition, the use of beads in their own region (i.e. the use of Ivie and Ekan --- both types known as coral beads) was not until the reign of Oba Ewuare1 who reigned from 1440 to 1473.

Whether you hate this Benin account or not is none of my business. What is undeniable and incontrovertible is that it is the Benin account.

However, if you've imagined that the Binis should have used beads prior to Ewuare1, then provide the evidence for such imagination.

Please don't give me your usual crappy excuse that you don't have enough time to provide the evidence.

But something tells me that you would tender the same old excuse of not having time to provide your evidence.

TAO11:


Hi geosegun and Olu317:

I feel deeply humbled and pleased by your generous descriptions of my ordinary self. The words are so kind and generous that I feel undeserving of them. Thank you very much.

Regarding gender: It's only courteous and respectful that individuals be addressed only how they've made it quite clear that they want to be addressed (regardless of how "intimidating" or "weak" their words come across as) unless they confirm otherwise on an individual/personal basis.

I personally feel that other people's gender identity should be the least of our problems (if at all it should be part of our problems). We have more urgent, important, pressing, and interesting issues and problems to discuss or solve, I believe.


On "collaboration": Although it is not entirely clear to me what this is to be about; I like to, first of all, acknowledge that your burning and deep passions for anything Yorùbá is not unnoticeable. I really commend you guys for that.

However, I regret to say that I have other views on "collaboration" in this area. I personally do not think that non-scholars/non-academics of Yoruba like us (at least like me) are well placed or equipped to undertake a serious independent investigation of Yoruba roots.

The idea of not being a scholar or academic of Yoruba is, to me, mutually exclusive to the idea of undertaking a serious investigation.

I feel very strongly that if they're not scholars and academics, then their so-called investigations can not be taken seriously (especially in academia); and if it was a serious investigation, then it was never undertaken by rookies, mere enthusiasts or non-scholars/non-academics.

Some individuals with the appropriate scholarly and academic competence (who have been through the relevant formal training and experience) are best reserved, for such serious work.

Moreover, I believe that a quite thorough investigation of the history of the Yorubas (which looks more closely into the sources, the evidence, and the contemporary or prevailing scholarly consensus) have recently been published in the works of S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of The Yoruba People, Amalion Publishing, 2010.


Lastly, I took up reading Yoruba history and commentary on Nairaland only as a pastime. I do this just to ease off the stress from my other packed and tough engagements in my own area of research/interest. This especially may not allow me the time for other thorough, serious, and novel research into new areas of Yoruba history even if I have the scholarly competence which I believe others (and not me) do have. We should task the experts on new areas of investigation.

This is my humble submission on "collaboration".

Cheers!

Thank you for your elaborate submission.

The way you discussed excerpt from Yoruba histories with facts and also backed with quotes/work-done by other intellectuals within the academics made me think that you are, also probably, vast in this field and hence the proposed collaboration with Olu317 as he seemed to be vast as well in this area, at least based on what I have read here on NL.

Just to mention that I am not an expert in this field. I rely on my firsthand experience and knowledge from my grand parent whom I live with, while growing up, in a typical Oyo-like village but in Kwara state. I took this as an hobby, as my area of specializations is way not related to cultures and histories at all. That not withstanding, oun ti abinibi ya to si "ability'' i.e what one is born with (Talent) is quite different from ones developed skills (ability).

That notwithstanding, It is good to have met and read from you both (including others) here on NL. Cheers.

NB: Regarding gender, While i don't discriminate irrespective of gender, I think a male having a female character or vice versa on a faceless forum like nairaland doesn't speak well about that personality. That attitude exhumes dishonesty on the part of that person and the personality may never be taken seriously. I will personally be very careful to deal with such dubious personality. If one cannot be honest with ones gender at first contact, I believe you will agree with me that, one should be extra careful to have anything to do with such doubtful character. Even one of the holy books encourages that one should be truthful in small thing and the person shall be made manager of greater and better things. Do have a blessed night.

TAO11:




This attached bronze/brass casting is an ancient sculpture representing an Ife king, and it was excavated from Ita-Yemoo site in Ile-Ife, Nigeria.

It has been scientifically dated, by experts, to the latest of early 14th century CE. In other words, early 1300s.


This is a hard archaeological evidence (dating to more than seven hundred years ago) showing in black and white that Ife kings of old dressed in the same exact regalia described by Obalufon; that is "beads dressing and wrapper tying".


Please note that this hard and extant archaeological find depicting an elaborate adornment of beads by this Yoruba king dates to a period (i.e. early 1300) when Benin kingdom had not begun the use of beads at all.


According to Benin's own tradition, the use of beads in their own region (i.e. the use of Ivie and Ekan --- both types known as coral beads) was not until the reign of Oba Ewuare1 who reigned from 1440 to 1473.

Whether you hate this Benin account or not is none of my business. What is undeniable and incontrovertible is that it is the Benin account.

However, if you've imagined that the Binis should have used beads prior to Ewuare1, then provide the evidence for such imagination.

Please don't give me your usual crappy excuse that you don't have enough time to provide the evidence.

But something tells me that you would tender the same old excuse of not having time to provide your evidence.

I'm getting tired of all these.
You are way less intelligent than you think you are.
You have used several wrong reasonnings and pre-admitted conclusions and outright lies:

1) don't tell an Edo what his tradition says, he and he alone can tell you what his tradition says.

2) tradition, wtf ?

3) you take as a fact that the Edo account says that the Edo didn't wear beads before 1300, this is a higly illogical argument because no Edo has recollection of what took place more than 700 years before his grand father was born. And the Edo that I am has never heard any Edo say what you claim.

4) rather than only making claims of an excavation, provide a link to the lab which conducted the research and their work on the matter.

5) fact: The beaded uniform of The Oba of Benin is older than any beads worn by any Yoruba. Indeed the early photos of Yoruba chiefs except those who belong to Benin empire (and accepted the label Yoruba in postcolonial or colonial Nigeria) don't show your chiefs wearing beads. And the beaded uniform of the Oba of Benin predates Nigeria, probably by some centuries.

6) the earliest records by Benin bronze show the Oba of Benin already wearing beads, and some of the bronzes were made as early as 1300. Besides, a close look at the beads on Yoruba statues shows they are not the same type as Benin beads. Benin beads are cylindrical while the Yoruba ones are spherical.

Oh, I didn't read your name before replying. I had already noticed your lack of consistency in previous encounters with you and I clearly told you that you were too dumb to be in this conversation. My opinion hasn't changed. You only master the art of writing long texts, but there is no matter, no logics in what you write. Just some hot thin air, just a bluff. Try and act with intellectual honesty rather than hoping to bore the readers with long fraudulent texts which nobody has the time to completely address. To help make your transition into a real intellectual, just read my comments. The art of reasoning well is never a gift, you have to archive it through hard mental gymnastics. You are not there yet.

prolog3111:
We can solve this issue if we both act in good faith and obey the laws of logics. Please locate some precolonial or early colonial photos of your chiefs like your ooni, or your alafin and so on. Look at the caption written by the people who developed the photo. That will tell you that none of your chiefs had the title "Oba" attached to his name until late in the colonial era. The only person who had that title "Oba" in the precolonial era is the emperor Omo n'Oba n'Edo. That is his title ! The title of your ooni is ooni that of your alafin is alafin that of Omo n'Oba n'Edo is Oba in short.

Your chiefs used to be addressed in this fashion in the early colonial era : ooni of ife, sir adeyeye or alafin of Oyo, sir adeyeye. Notice that the word sir is also not a Yoruba word. Then late in the colonial era, the fashion changed and your chiefs started calling themselves onni of ife, oba adeyeye or alafin Oyo, oba adeyeye.

You reek of ignorance and arrogance --- a very pitiable combination.

If you would go through the following with even an atom of sanity and honesty, then you would get some education. But if you won't be sane and honest even with your own self, then what can I do? :

You (as well as many Binis I have encountered) often assume without any real basis that "Oba" is a TITLE for Yoruba kings.

This assumption which often forms the premise of comments such as you've made above is simply FALSE. No more, no less.


(1) In the Yoruba language, "Oba" is NOT a TITLE for kings, rather "Oba" is itself the word "King".

In other words: in the Yoruba language, "Oba" is the Yoruba language equivalence of the English language word "King".


(2) There isn't one Yoruba kingdom. Rather, there are Yoruba kingdoms, and some of them are: Ife, Ketu, Ila-Orangun, Ilesha, Ondo, Oyo, Oko (later called Èkó), Ijebu-Ode, and many other major ancient ones like those, with some younger and more recent ones like them being Ibadan, Abeokuta, etc.


(3)For each of these Yoruba kingdoms, in addition to the word "Oba" which simply and literally, means "King"; there is a unique distinguishing identifier which separates the "Oba" of one Yoruba kingdom from the "Oba" of another Yoruba kingdom.


(4)These different words are the TITLES, and these kingdom royal titles are different one from the other in the different Yoruba kingdoms. The word "Oba", on the other hand, transcends the borders of the different Yoruba kingdoms, as it simply and literally means "King".


(5) For example:

(i)In the Ife kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Ooni Ife", and it simply and literally means The one who owns Ife.

(ii) In the Oyo kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Alaafin Oyo" (from: "Olu-Afin Oyo" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of the palace of Oyo.

(iii) In the Èkó kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Eleko" (from: "Olu Èkó" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of Èkó.

(iv) In the Ibadan kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Olubadan" (from: "Olu Ibadan" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of Ibadan.

And so forth.


(6) This Yoruba system of reserving a different word (which doesn't necessarily literally mean "King" ) for the Obas ( i.e. for the kings) of a Yoruba kingdom (while obviously having the word "King" in their lexicon, i.e. "Oba" ) is not unique to the Yorubas alone.

(i) The ancient Egyptians, for example, have a word which literally means "King" in their lexicon, but yet use a TITLE (which doesn't mean "King" ) for their kings.

(ii) The TITLE used by the ancient Egyptians to refer to their kings is "per-aa" (or in the Anglicized form: "pharaoh" ). This title simply and literally means "The great house". It doesn't by itself mean "King"

--- Refer to the entry "Pharaoh" in I. Shaw & P. Nicholson, "British Museum Dictionary Of Ancient Egypt", 1995, British Museum Press: London, p. 222.

(iii) Yet the word "King" exists in the language of the ancient Egyptian (just as in every language including Yoruba and Edo languages). The word "King" in their language is "Nswt". It is clearly different from "Per-aa" not only in writing but also in pronunciation as well as in meaning.


This is the background information that you and other Binis like you did not know about or pretend not to know about.


Any ignorant and arrogant Bini who claims (although always without any proof) that the word "Oba" is not a Yoruba word, has an obligation not only to prove such claim but also to point out the Yoruba word which simply means "King" just as I would soon point out the Bini word which simply means "King".

TAO11:


Firstly:
It's called "logical proof" and not "logical prove". Invest some quality time in grasping the difference between the words "proof" and "prove".

Secondly:
It's shocking that you dared ask him for prove [sic] even when you yourself have consistently given me the crappy excuse that you don't have time to provide evidence, proof, or reason whenever I demand that you substantiate your absurd and ridiculous claims.

Thirdly:
You seem to be either intimidated by my apparently scholarly competence, or you're just outrightly misogynistic, or you're both.

Your fear about my gender did not help the argument you should be constructing. It didn't help you a bit. It only exposed your emptiness and base thinking.


Fourthly:
You noted that weblinks (to papers and writings which are either scholarly or of Bini origin, or both) are not enough for you as so-called "raw proves".

Can you then be bold enough to state clearly, in black and white, that what you would respect and acknowledge as a so-called "raw prove" is a stamped physical paper delivered at your Benin address by DHL, FedEx, UPS, or USPS??

Every logical and right thinking person knew long ago that you've already been punished and messed up by my humble self. You're simply just saving-face by clutching at straws. You remind me of the proverbial drowning guy.


Fifthly:
Anyway, just to avoid not fu*king you up one more time, refer below to the attached sculpture:

This attached bronze/brass casting is an ancient sculpture representing an Ife king, and it was excavated from Ita-Yemoo site in Ile-Ife, Nigeria.

It has been scientifically dated, by experts, to the latest of early 14th century CE. In other words, early 1300s.


This is a hard archaeological evidence (dating to more than seven hundred years ago) showing in black and white that Ife kings of old dressed in the same exact regalia described by Obalufon; that is "beads dressing and wrapper tying".


Please note that this hard and extant archaeological find depicting an elaborate adornment of beads by this Yoruba king dates to a period (i.e. early 1300) when Benin kingdom had not begun the use of beads at all.


According to Benin's own tradition, the use of beads in their own region (i.e. the use of Ivie and Ekan --- both types known as coral beads) was not until the reign of Oba Ewuare1 who reigned from 1440 to 1473.

Whether you hate this Benin account or not is none of my business. What is undeniable and incontrovertible is that it is the Benin account.

However, if you've imagined that the Binis should have used beads prior to Ewuare1, then provide the evidence for such imagination.

Please don't give me your usual crappy excuse that you don't have enough time to provide the evidence.

But something tells me that you would tender the same old excuse of not having time to provide your evidence.

I keep telling you stop posting craps from the internent that lacks proper research and archeological data .....
Lol....ooh now its a benin website not eghrevbas account again i shoukd believe ...so now you choose to post an edo website not eghrevbas works again pathetic ....spit*

And again you have made me go over board to bring valid data from archeological findings just again eweka reigned from about the 13century when beads were said to have originated in benin according to archeological findings no account ever mentioned him introducing beads but he wore beads and all other edo regalia

This findings on the date were gotten from the muesum i will advice you to stop the big grammer and research before you write....

According to account the benin empire still older than the so called oyo empire if it existed

An other boring and way too long write up with no substance and no logics.
My comment which you are quoting already contains a proof the word Oba belongs to the Edo. It is the title of the Edo king. I can't elaborate any simpler or further than what is already contained in the comment which you are quoting. So let me serve it to you again.

prolog3111:
We can solve this issue if we both act in good faith and obey the laws of logics. Please locate some precolonial or early colonial photos of your chiefs like your ooni, or your alafin and so on. Look at the caption written by the people who developed the photo. That will tell you that none of your chiefs had the title "Oba" attached to his name until late in the colonial era. The only person who had that title "Oba" in the precolonial era is the emperor Omo n'Oba n'Edo. That is his title ! The title of your ooni is ooni that of your alafin is alafin that of Omo n'Oba n'Edo is Oba in short.

Your chiefs used to be addressed in this fashion in the early colonial era : ooni of ife, sir adeyeye or alafin of Oyo, sir adeyeye. Notice that the word sir is also not a Yoruba word. Then late in the colonial era, the fashion changed and your chiefs started calling themselves onni of ife, oba adeyeye or alafin Oyo, oba adeyeye.

TAO11:


You reek of ignorance and arrogance --- a very pitiable combination.

If you would go through the following with even an atom of sanity and honesty, then you would get some education. But if you won't be sane and honest even with your own self, then what can I do? :

You (as well as many Binis I have encountered) often assume without any real basis that "Oba" is a TITLE for Yoruba kings.

This assumption which often forms the premise of comments such as you've made above is simply FALSE. No more, no less.


(1) In the Yoruba language, "Oba" is NOT a TITLE for kings, rather "Oba" is itself the word "King".

In other words: in the Yoruba language, "Oba" is the Yoruba language equivalence of the English language word "King".


(2) There isn't one Yoruba kingdom. Rather, there are Yoruba kingdoms, and some of them are: Ife, Ketu, Ila-Orangun, Ilesha, Ondo, Oyo, Oko (later called Èkó), Ijebu-Ode, and many others major ancient ones like those, with some younger and more recent ones like them being Ibadan, Abeokuta, etc.


(3)For each of these Yoruba kingdoms, in addition to the word "Oba" which simply and literally, means "King"; there is a unique distinguishing identifier which separates the "Oba" of one Yoruba kingdom from the "Oba" of another Yoruba kingdom.


(4)These different words are the TITLES, and these kingdom royal titles are different one from the other in the different Yoruba kingdoms. The word "Oba", on the other hand, transcends the borders of the different Yoruba kingdoms, as it simply and literally means "King".


(5) For example:

(i)In the Ife kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Ooni Ife", and it simply and literally means The one who owns Ife.

(ii) In the Oyo kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Alaafin Oyo" (from: "Olu-Afin Oyo" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of the palace of Oyo.

(iii) In the Oyo kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Alaafin Oyo" (from: "Olu-Afin Oyo" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of the palace of Oyo.

(iii) In the Èkó kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Eleko" (from: "Olu Èkó" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of Èkó.

(iv) In the Ibadan kingdom, the unique royal title for the "Oba" is "Olubadan" (from: "Olu Ibadan" ), and it simply and literally means The sovereign of Ibadan.

And so forth.


(6) This Yoruba system of reserving a different word (which doesn't necessarily literally mean "King" ) for the Obas ( i.e. for the kings) of a Yoruba kingdom (while obviously having the word "King" in their lexicon, i.e. "Oba" ) is not unique to the Yorubas alone.

(i) The ancient Egyptians, for example, have a word which literally means "King" in their lexicon, but yet uses a TITLE (which doesn't mean "King" ) for their kings.

(ii) The title used by the ancient Egyptians to refer to their kings is "per-aa" (or in the Anglicized form: "pharaoh" ). This title simply and literally means "The great house". It doesn't by itself mean "King"

--- Refer to the entry "Pharaoh" in I. Shaw & P. Nicholson, "British Museum Dictionary Of Ancient Egypt", 1995, British Museum Press: London, p. 222.

(iii) Yet the word "King" exists in the language of the ancient Egyptian (just as in every language including Yoruba and Edo languages). The word "King" in their language is "Nswt". It clear different from "Per-aa" not only in writing but also in pronunciation as well as in meaning.


This is the background information that you and other Binis like you did not know about or pretend not to know about.


Any ignorant and arrogant Bini who claims (although always without any proof) that the word "Oba" is not a Yoruba word, has an obligation not only to prove such claim but also to point out the Yoruba word which simply means "King" just as I would soon point out the Bini word which simply means "King".

I notice you have huge comprehension problems.

Logics and semantics:

1) British word for king: king
British title for king: king
2) Russian word for king: tsar
Russian title for king: tsar
3) French word for king: roi
French title for king: roi
4) Benin kingdom word for king: Oba
Benin title for king: Oba
5) German word for king: keizer
German title for king: keizer
6)Oyo word for king: alafin
Oyo title for king: alafin
7) ife word for king: ooni
Ife title for king: ooni

This destroys your argument once again. Indeed the human species has a habit of having the title of king and the word for king to be the very same word:

Word for king = title for king !!!!!

It is amazing that you don't realize how dumb you are.

I also noticed you trying to put words in my mouth just like you try to put claims in my "tradition" and make pretend claims of my people. You know you have no argument when you resort to telling your interlocutor what he thinks or putting words into his mouth.

I just saw your claim about Egypt. To make such a claim, you need to back it up with actual documents, provide links research works.

I will also have you reminded that there are two zones in Egypt which were functioning independently as two different countries with two different kings until they were unified. That makes at least two titles for king only one being used ( but for the fact that Egypt has very old records dating back thousands of years, the other words wouldn't even be known) Egypt was also invaded and subjected by at least one of its neighbours, that might have made way for yet an other title. Anyways, Egypt has records way too old to be put at the same level as any other people on earth. Therefore the use of Egypt as an example is fraudulent. The oldest records of our region are less than 700 years old.

Also languages evolve over time. Ask youself what the english language would look like in 3000 years or what it looked like 3000 years ago. That is the absurdity of Egypt having incredibly old records.

Also, as languages evolve, words change : e.g the english word for "friend" was something else, util the vikings started invading them and the word became the viking word " friend".

In the case of the Yoruba, my comment which you quoted has proven it all. The word Oba was borrowed from the Edo. Stop beating around the bush and accept reality with a pinch of salt. When proof is given, the debate is ended, no sentence can be proven and disproven (logics).
End of story.

Example of evolution of language, the French language :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD--OdhdJfg

Evolution of languages: Example of the English language:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UqzBA1LNbE