Wizs2019:


Hello my people, Hope you're all enjoying the weekend. As I promised, please see my general cucumber instructions and the recipe of Fertilisers that I use for fertigation during the planting season. I tried to make the document concise. Please review, comment, critic, and discuss as you like.

Here is a list of some of the chemical products I use:

NEMATICIDE
Velum Prime

INSECTICIDE
Magic Force
Lamda
Caterpillar Force

FUNGICIDE
Cabrio Duo
Ridomil Gold

MISC
Super Grow

Please remember you are required to follow the label of any agricultural chemical by Law.

I am putting together a best practice document which I share soon.

Have a lovely weekend!

Thank you boss for generously sharing this. May I humbly give some suggestions?

1) Potassium has an antagonistic relationship with Calcium. Potassium is highly mobile within the soil and crops and crops generally have a high affinity for potassium. When you apply a combination of calcium and potassium products, the chances are that the crop takes up the potassium and absorbs little or no calcium. (because of the presence of potassium)

2) Meanwhile, Calcium is needed to build the immune system of most crops from seedling through vegetative stages (till the end of the crops cycle). This will help the crop through the vulnerable stages of fruiting through harvest. If you apply too much potassium too early, you will lock out the calcium from the crops, no matter the quantity of calcium you apply. The crop will just not absorb the calcium. You may even see signs of calcium deficiencies in the leaves (if you know the symptoms) inspite of heavy bombardment with calcium.

3)Potassium is needed in huge amount from fruiting till the end of life of the crops. it is needed for fruit fill.

4) Meanwhile, as I have mentioned in a previous post, nitrate is not the best source of Nitrogen. Nitrates might give your crop a huge foliage boost; but they also attract a lot of pests to your crops. Minimize it as much as possible. Use urea if nitrogen is what you are looking for. Use Sulphate of Potash (SOP) in place of Potassium Nitrate, if potassium is what you are looking for.

5) Be wary of the use of NPK. When you apply NPK at the early stages, you are giving your crop Nitrogen and Phosphorus (which it needs at this stage) but you are also giving it Potassium, which will antagonize the absorption of calcium and thereby make your crop less immune.When you use NPK at the later stages of fruiting, your crop needs more of Potassium and less of Nitrogen. NPK will ensure that you are feeding it the nitrogen it doesn't need so much of. The crop will be wasting valuable energy on feeding its leaves when it should be concentrating on feeding the fruits.

6) Instead, use SSP or some other source of insoluble phosphorus for slow release of phosphate through the live cycle of the plant. Apply very early. If possible, a month before planting. Use urea as a preferred source of Nitrogen. And apply little or no nitrogen when your crop starts to fruit. Apply minimal quantity of potassium at the early stages (or no potassium if your soil has copious amount of potassium). Then apply SOP abundantly once the crop gets to fruiting stage, where it needs a lot of Potassium.


7) Magnesium sulfate is important definitely.

You didn't mention micro nutrients. They are are needed through the entire lifespan of the crop...some more than the others at different stages.

9) One more thing, unless the concern is about leaving infected leaves on the portion to be cultivated, it is good practice to work leaves of cleared vegetation into the soil and apply things like biodigester to accelerate the rate of decomposition. This boosts the organic matter content of the soil and helps you harvest some of the nutrients in the foliage of the cleared vegetation and put them back into your soil.


Cheers

TangoAlpha:



Thank you boss for generously sharing this. May I humbly give some suggestions?

1) Potassium has an antagonistic relationship with Calcium. Potassium is highly mobile within the soil and crops and crops generally have a high affinity for potassium. When you apply a combination of calcium and potassium products, the chances are that the crop takes up the potassium and absorbs little or no calcium. (because of the presence of potassium)

2) Meanwhile, Calcium is needed to build the immune system of most crops from seedling through vegetative stages (till the end of the crops cycle). This will help the crop through the vulnerable stages of fruiting through harvest. If you apply too much potassium too early, you will lock out the calcium from the crops, no matter the quantity of calcium you apply. The crop will just not absorb the calcium. You may even see signs of calcium deficiencies in the leaves (if you know the symptoms) inspite of heavy bombardment with calcium.

3)Potassium is needed in huge amount from fruiting till the end of life of the crops. it is needed for fruit fill.

4) Meanwhile, as I have mentioned in a previous post, nitrate is not the best source of Nitrogen. Nitrates might give your crop a huge foliage boost; but they also attract a lot of pests to your crops. Minimize it as much as possible. Use urea if nitrogen is what you are looking for. Use Sulphate of Potash (SOP) in place of Potassium Nitrate, if potassium is what you are looking for.

5) Be wary of the use of NPK. When you apply NPK at the early stages, you are giving your crop Nitrogen and Phosphorus (which it needs at this stage) but you are also giving it Potassium, which will antagonize the absorption of calcium and thereby make your crop less immune.When you use NPK at the later stages of fruiting, your crop needs more of Potassium and less of Nitrogen. NPK will ensure that you are feeding it the nitrogen it doesn't need so much of. The crop will be wasting valuable energy on feeding its leaves when it should be concentrating on feeding the fruits.

6) Instead, use SSP or some other source of insoluble phosphorus for slow release of phosphate through the live cycle of the plant. Apply very early. If possible, a month before planting. Use urea as a preferred source of Nitrogen. And apply little or no nitrogen when your crop starts to fruit. Apply minimal quantity of potassium at the early stages (or no potassium if your soil has copious amount of potassium). Then apply SOP abundantly once the crop gets to fruiting stage, where it needs a lot of Potassium.


7) Magnesium sulfate is important definitely.

You didn't mention micro nutrients. They are are needed through the entire lifespan of the crop...some more than the others at different stages.

9) One more thing, unless the concern is about leaving infected leaves on the portion to be cultivated, it is good practice to work leaves of cleared vegetation into the soil and apply things like biodigester to accelerate the rate of decomposition. This boosts the organic matter content of the soil and helps you harvest some of the nutrients in the foliage of the cleared vegetation and put them back into your soil.


Cheers

Thumbs.
@ no 1. Potassium will always show its superiority above any other metallic ions in any medium not just in soil or crops alone, periodic table stuff.

TangoAlpha:



Thank you boss for generously sharing this. May I humbly give some suggestions?

1) Potassium has an antagonistic relationship with Calcium. Potassium is highly mobile within the soil and crops and crops generally have a high affinity for potassium. When you apply a combination of calcium and potassium products, the chances are that the crop takes up the potassium and absorbs little or no calcium. (because of the presence of potassium)

2) Meanwhile, Calcium is needed to build the immune system of most crops from seedling through vegetative stages (till the end of the crops cycle). This will help the crop through the vulnerable stages of fruiting through harvest. If you apply too much potassium too early, you will lock out the calcium from the crops, no matter the quantity of calcium you apply. The crop will just not absorb the calcium. You may even see signs of calcium deficiencies in the leaves (if you know the symptoms) inspite of heavy bombardment with calcium.

3)Potassium is needed in huge amount from fruiting till the end of life of the crops. it is needed for fruit fill.

4) Meanwhile, as I have mentioned in a previous post, nitrate is not the best source of Nitrogen. Nitrates might give your crop a huge foliage boost; but they also attract a lot of pests to your crops. Minimize it as much as possible. Use urea if nitrogen is what you are looking for. Use Sulphate of Potash (SOP) in place of Potassium Nitrate, if potassium is what you are looking for.

5) Be wary of the use of NPK. When you apply NPK at the early stages, you are giving your crop Nitrogen and Phosphorus (which it needs at this stage) but you are also giving it Potassium, which will antagonize the absorption of calcium and thereby make your crop less immune.When you use NPK at the later stages of fruiting, your crop needs more of Potassium and less of Nitrogen. NPK will ensure that you are feeding it the nitrogen it doesn't need so much of. The crop will be wasting valuable energy on feeding its leaves when it should be concentrating on feeding the fruits.

6) Instead, use SSP or some other source of insoluble phosphorus for slow release of phosphate through the live cycle of the plant. Apply very early. If possible, a month before planting. Use urea as a preferred source of Nitrogen. And apply little or no nitrogen when your crop starts to fruit. Apply minimal quantity of potassium at the early stages (or no potassium if your soil has copious amount of potassium). Then apply SOP abundantly once the crop gets to fruiting stage, where it needs a lot of Potassium.


7) Magnesium sulfate is important definitely.

You didn't mention micro nutrients. They are are needed through the entire lifespan of the crop...some more than the others at different stages.

9) One more thing, unless the concern is about leaving infected leaves on the portion to be cultivated, it is good practice to work leaves of cleared vegetation into the soil and apply things like biodigester to accelerate the rate of decomposition. This boosts the organic matter content of the soil and helps you harvest some of the nutrients in the foliage of the cleared vegetation and put them back into your soil.


Cheers

U too much. This is a 1 million dollar info. Thank you so much sir/ma.

Wizs2019:


Hello my people, Hope you're all enjoying the weekend. As I promised, please see my general cucumber instructions and the recipe of Fertilisers that I use for fertigation during the planting season. I tried to make the document concise. Please review, comment, critic, and discuss as you like.

Here is a list of some of the chemical products I use:

NEMATICIDE
Velum Prime

INSECTICIDE
Magic Force
Lamda
Caterpillar Force

FUNGICIDE
Cabrio Duo
Ridomil Gold

MISC
Super Grow

Please remember you are required to follow the label of any agricultural chemical by Law.

I am putting together a best practice document which I share soon.

Have a lovely weekend!

The attachment you added is very very vital and I appreciate but how will I use this kind of formula in a large scale farming?

@TangoAlpha
Are you saying npk is not good for crops?

TangoAlpha:



Thank you boss for generously sharing this. May I humbly give some suggestions?

1) Potassium has an antagonistic relationship with Calcium. Potassium is highly mobile within the soil and crops and crops generally have a high affinity for potassium. When you apply a combination of calcium and potassium products, the chances are that the crop takes up the potassium and absorbs little or no calcium. (because of the presence of potassium)

2) Meanwhile, Calcium is needed to build the immune system of most crops from seedling through vegetative stages (till the end of the crops cycle). This will help the crop through the vulnerable stages of fruiting through harvest. If you apply too much potassium too early, you will lock out the calcium from the crops, no matter the quantity of calcium you apply. The crop will just not absorb the calcium. You may even see signs of calcium deficiencies in the leaves (if you know the symptoms) inspite of heavy bombardment with calcium.

3)Potassium is needed in huge amount from fruiting till the end of life of the crops. it is needed for fruit fill.

4) Meanwhile, as I have mentioned in a previous post, nitrate is not the best source of Nitrogen. Nitrates might give your crop a huge foliage boost; but they also attract a lot of pests to your crops. Minimize it as much as possible. Use urea if nitrogen is what you are looking for. Use Sulphate of Potash (SOP) in place of Potassium Nitrate, if potassium is what you are looking for.

5) Be wary of the use of NPK. When you apply NPK at the early stages, you are giving your crop Nitrogen and Phosphorus (which it needs at this stage) but you are also giving it Potassium, which will antagonize the absorption of calcium and thereby make your crop less immune.When you use NPK at the later stages of fruiting, your crop needs more of Potassium and less of Nitrogen. NPK will ensure that you are feeding it the nitrogen it doesn't need so much of. The crop will be wasting valuable energy on feeding its leaves when it should be concentrating on feeding the fruits.

6) Instead, use SSP or some other source of insoluble phosphorus for slow release of phosphate through the live cycle of the plant. Apply very early. If possible, a month before planting. Use urea as a preferred source of Nitrogen. And apply little or no nitrogen when your crop starts to fruit. Apply minimal quantity of potassium at the early stages (or no potassium if your soil has copious amount of potassium). Then apply SOP abundantly once the crop gets to fruiting stage, where it needs a lot of Potassium.


7) Magnesium sulfate is important definitely.

You didn't mention micro nutrients. They are are needed through the entire lifespan of the crop...some more than the others at different stages.

9) One more thing, unless the concern is about leaving infected leaves on the portion to be cultivated, it is good practice to work leaves of cleared vegetation into the soil and apply things like biodigester to accelerate the rate of decomposition. This boosts the organic matter content of the soil and helps you harvest some of the nutrients in the foliage of the cleared vegetation and put them back into your soil.


Cheers

My brother thanks for you comments. I will disagree with you strongly on some points you have made and I will clarify some questions you raised.

On Potassium and Calcium, you are correct when you say they affect the absorption of each other BUT only when too much of one is applied. If you notice in the Fertiliser program I published, Calcium is applied at the start as preplant and the Potassium Nitrate from day 1 to 20 is quite low. The key is to have a balance nutrition because both elements are needed but I will bet you one thing, you are more likely to have potassium deficiency in your soil than being deficient of calcium because a lot more potassium is needed during the season than calcium.

Also on potasium being needed mainly at or only fruiting stage, I think this is totally incorrect. Pottasium is really the most important and most needed nutrient for cucumber because its benefits are numerous, for example it helps by enhancing plant resistance to pathogens and reduces the impact of the infection. Potassium is needed throughout the whole life of a cucumber plant but more of it is needed during the vegetative, fruiting and harvesting stages (notice on the Fertiliser chart that more Potassium Nitrate is applied from day 20 to the end of the season than at the start). See below article.
https://www.haifa-group.com/cucumber-0/crop-guide-nutrients-cucumber

Note, when it is said a plant need a certain nutrient at a particular stage it doesn't mean don't apply any of that nutrient until that stage. What it actually means is that you should make sure that the nutrient is more available at that stage. Major mistake people make is to say for example Nitrogen is required at vegetative stage so I will only apply then, this is totally wrong. You should apply gradually to build up to when it is needed the most. Also if you apply all at once, you more likely to cause an excess and inhibit the absorption of other nutrients.

Next point, Nitrate is definitely the best source of Nitrogen! It is a plain fact. This is what the plants actually absorb. See below article.
http://www.kno3.org/product-features-a-benefits/nitrate-no3-versus-ammonium-nh4
I don't like urea, I know its a cheap source of Nitrogen but it is not the right type needed because its breakdown into ammonia then into ammonium then into Nitrate. Its such an inefficient way of applying Nitrogen. The nitrification of Ammonia is what causes leaf burn.

Next point, I use fine ground SSP and apply it about 5 to 7 days before planting so that it is broken down into the required nutrients and that they available to the plants straight from the get go. Phosphorus stores very well in the soil and its mostly required at the early growth stage of plants. I really like SSP because it contains calcium and Sulphur but you can use MAP or DAP.

On Sulphate Fertilisers, I remember reading somewhere that Sulphate is mostly salts which are really bad for soil because they make your soil have high salinity. It is better to use nitrates. Maybe someone can confirm this. Also I avoid Fertiliser (for example murate of potash) that contain chloride because if your not careful it can be disaster (high salinity) to plants, soil and any nearby source of water.

I didn't mention micro-nutrients because I use manure which contains all the micro nutrients required. Manure is a wonderful material. Also I use super grow.

On final point, I always try to discard plants from previous season because of disease and pathogens. I prefer to use manure.

My passing comment will be don't forget that you should always perform a soil test and adjust the Fertilisers based on the results.

This is the type of discussions I like to have! Long may it continue.

vosquare:

The attachment you added is very very vital and I appreciate but how will I use this kind of formula in a large scale farming?

Bro it is designed exactly for large scale farming. It is simple, just multiply by the number of plants you have to get total to apply, dissolve together in large barrel and fertigate all the plants at the same time. You are not meant to apply one by one to each plant .

EMMAACHILE:
@TangoAlpha
Are you saying npk is not good for crops?

No.

I am just saying that with NPK you are forced to keep giving your crop a nutrient it doesn't need so much of at a specific stage. It doesn't give you so much flexibility.

Wizs2019:


Bro it is designed exactly for large scale farming. It is simple, just multiply by the number of plants you have to get total to apply, dissolve together in large barrel and fertigate all the plants at the same time. You are not meant to apply one by one to each plant .

The aggregated figures you provided at the end of the number of bags required for each type of fertilizer didn't come with say size of area covered, 1plot, 1 acre or 1 hectare.

If it's based on number of crops, how many crops do you recommend those quantities for? How many crops do you recommend per acre (range) given the spacing you suggested.

Wizs2019:


My brother thanks for you comments. I will disagree with you strongly on some points you have made and I will clarify some questions you raised.

On Potassium and Calcium, you are correct when you say they affect the absorption of each other BUT only when too much of one is applied. If you notice in the Fertiliser program I published, Calcium is applied at the start as preplant and the Potassium Nitrate from day 1 to 20 is quite low. The key is to have a balance nutrition because both elements are needed but I will bet you one thing, you are more likely to have potassium deficiency in your soil than being deficient of calcium because a lot more potassium is needed during the season than calcium.

Also on potasium being needed mainly at or only fruiting stage, I think this is totally incorrect. Pottasium is really the most important and most needed nutrient for cucumber because its benefits are numerous, for example it helps by enhancing plant resistance to pathogens and reduces the impact of the infection. Potassium is needed throughout the whole life of a cucumber plant but more of it is needed during the vegetative, fruiting and harvesting stages (notice on the Fertiliser chart that more Potassium Nitrate is applied from day 20 to the end of the season than at the start). See below article.
https://www.haifa-group.com/cucumber-0/crop-guide-nutrients-cucumber

Note, when it is said a plant need a certain nutrient at a particular stage it doesn't mean don't apply any of that nutrient until that stage. What it actually means is that you should make sure that the nutrient is more available at that stage. Major mistake people make is to say for example Nitrogen is required at vegetative stage so I will only apply then, this is totally wrong. You should apply gradually to build up to when it is needed the most. Also if you apply all at once, you more likely to cause an excess and inhibit the absorption of other nutrients.

Next point, Nitrate is definitely the best source of Nitrogen! It is a plain fact. This is what the plants actually absorb. See below article.
http://www.kno3.org/product-features-a-benefits/nitrate-no3-versus-ammonium-nh4
I don't like urea, I know its a cheap source of Nitrogen but it is not the right type needed because its breakdown into ammonia then into ammonium then into Nitrate. Its such an inefficient way of applying Nitrogen. The nitrification of Ammonia is what causes leaf burn.

Next point, I use fine ground SSP and apply it about 5 to 7 days before planting so that it is broken down into the required nutrients and that they available to the plants straight from the get go. Phosphorus stores very well in the soil and its mostly required at the early growth stage of plants. I really like SSP because it contains calcium and Sulphur but you can use MAP or DAP.

On Sulphate Fertilisers, I remember reading somewhere that Sulphate is mostly salts which are really bad for soil because they make your soil have high salinity. It is better to use nitrates. Maybe someone can confirm this. Also I avoid Fertiliser (for example murate of potash) that contain chloride because if your not careful it can be disaster (high salinity) to plants, soil and any nearby source of water.

I didn't mention micro-nutrients because I use manure which contains all the micro nutrients required. Manure is a wonderful material. Also I use super grow.

On final point, I always try to discard plants from previous season because of disease and pathogens. I prefer to use manure.

My passing comment will be don't forget that you should always perform a soil test and adjust the Fertilisers based on the results.

This is the type of discussions I like to have! Long may it continue.

Well, many thanks for your response.

You have spoken well. Discussions around best nitrogen source are actually a bit controversial, elevated and complex. I won't say I fully understand it yet.

Nitrogen alters many constituents of plants; amino acids, phonetics, nucleic acids, total Nitrogen, protein and ratio of carbohydrates to Nitrogen. The listed constituents are linked to plant resistance or susceptibility to diseases.

Nitrogen is the main mineral factor changing the amount of cellulose in the plant and thereby affecting the mechanical strength of cell walls. Nitrogen promotes succulent tissues which allows some foliar pathogens to easily penetrate, multiply and develop rapidly.

So both Urea and Nitrate as sources of nitrogen are guilty of promoting this vulnerability. It appears that nitrates, perhaps because it triggers great plant response, accentuates the susceptibility to diseases more.

I would buffer my urea application with humid and folic acids for better overall results.

I am quite familiar with what Haifa cucumber document. I have used it as a main guide in one of my cucumber production cycles. The outcome wasnt bad at all.

The potassium products generally have fungicidal properties. My case against early application of potassium is that plant cells only have a certain room to absorbs positive ions like potassium calcium magnesium etc. But because potassium is more mobile, if you apply it earlier than calcium, it will occupy sites into the cells meant for calcium. Thereby reducing the ability of the crop to benefit from immunity promoting properties of calcium.

I didn't really say dont apply potassium at all at the start of the cycle. I said if your soil tests reveal you have some potassium, it might just be better you de-emphasize potassium application in favor of calcium.

Is it ok to apply potassium at anytime? Perhaps. But is it better to delay the application till later in the cycle?Definitely. Bear in mind that plants need almost all the nutrients they need at virtually all the stages. So I will apply some potassium regularly, but small doses before fruit stage. You also don't want to have potassium deficiency at any stage.

It is always better to have a balanced nutritional program at all stages. That's the best way to minimize susceptibility to diseases. Note that 'balanced' doesn't not imply 'equal'.

Because of my knowledge of the antagonistic relationship between potassium calcium and magnesium as well as that the need for potassium is greatest during fruit fill and that calcium is needed to boost immunity; I will rather delay application of potassium so that my crop can be given the best opportunity to develop its own immunity and so that my need for fungicides is minimized.


If I must apply potassium along with calcium, I will add boron and manganese. Boron assists with plant's ability to take up calcium. Manganese regulates the rate at which potassium is taken up.

It might be too general to say that manure contains all the required micro nutrients. It might actually be a fallacy. Manure is an excellent input to crop production. But unless we cannot confidently say what a batch of manure contains unless it is analyzed.

I am not a very public person. My intention is not to call you out. I only wanted to share some of the knowledge I have come by. Like I said it's very generous of you to share your production program. It will help a lot of us. Good enough you also have good results to back up your program with.

Haifa cucumber document is a good place to start. I have benefitted immensely from it. But it's merely a starting point.

Cheers

TangoAlpha:


Well, many thanks for your response.

You have spoken well. Discussions around best nitrogen source are actually a bit controversial, elevated and complex. I won't say I fully understand it yet.

Nitrogen alters many constituents of plants; amino acids, phonetics, nucleic acids, total Nitrogen, protein and ratio of carbohydrates to Nitrogen. The listed constituents are linked to plant resistance or susceptibility to diseases.

Nitrogen is the main mineral factor changing the amount of cellulose in the plant and thereby affecting the mechanical strength of cell walls. Nitrogen promotes succulent tissues which allows some foliar pathogens to easily penetrate, multiply and develop rapidly.

So both Urea and Nitrate as sources of nitrogen are guilty of promoting this vulnerability. It appears that nitrates, perhaps because it triggers great plant response, accentuates the susceptibility to diseases more.

I would buffer my urea application with humid and folic acids for better overall results.

I am quite familiar with what Haifa cucumber document. I have used it as a main guide in one of my cucumber production cycles. The outcome wasnt bad at all.

The potassium products generally have fungicidal properties. My case against early application of potassium is that plant cells only have a certain room to absorbs positive ions like potassium calcium magnesium etc. But because potassium is more mobile, if you apply it earlier than calcium, it will occupy sites into the cells meant for calcium. Thereby reducing the ability of the crop to benefit from immunity promoting properties of calcium.

I didn't really say dont apply potassium at all at the start of the cycle. I said if your soil tests reveal you have some potassium, it might just be better you de-emphasize potassium application in favor of calcium.

Is it ok to apply potassium at anytime? Perhaps. But is it better to delay the application till later in the cycle?Definitely. Bear in mind that plants need almost all the nutrients they need at virtually all the stages. So I will apply some potassium regularly, but small doses before fruit stage. You also don't want to have potassium deficiency at any stage.

It is always better to have a balanced nutritional program at all stages. That's the best way to minimize susceptibility to diseases. Note that 'balanced' doesn't not imply 'equal'.

Because of my knowledge of the antagonistic relationship between potassium calcium and magnesium as well as that the need for potassium is greatest during fruit fill and that calcium is needed to boost immunity; I will rather delay application of potassium so that my crop can be given the best opportunity to develop its own immunity and so that my need for fungicides is minimized.


If I must apply potassium along with calcium, I will add boron and manganese. Boron assists with plant's ability to take up calcium. Manganese regulates the rate at which potassium is taken up.

It might be too general to say that manure contains all the required micro nutrients. It might actually be a fallacy. Manure is an excellent input to crop production. But unless we cannot confidently say what a batch of manure contains unless it is analyzed.

I am not a very public person. My intention is not to call you out. I only wanted to share some of the knowledge I have come by. Like I said it's very generous of you to share your production program. It will help a lot of us. Good enough you also have good results to back up your program with.

Haifa cucumber document is a good place to start. I have benefitted immensely from it. But it's merely a starting point.

Cheers

can't we have a detailed nutrients composition of the two common used manure easily available like chicken and pig,I know the composition depends on many factors like feed used,storeage,age,etc,but we can get a fairly close average of available nutrients in them,pls don't tell me to goggle it ,we have our own trusted scientists and researchers like tango,wiz,etc.

okoroemeka:
can't we have a detailed nutrients composition of the two common used manure easily available like chicken and pig,I know the composition depends on many factors like feed used,storeage,age,etc,but we can get a fairly close average of available nutrients in them,pls don't tell me to goggle it ,we have our own trusted scientists and researchers like tango,wiz,etc.

If I understand what you are saying, I think the response to your question is already embedded within the question.

Unless you produce your own manure, and you don't vary the feed for your animals that produce the manure and you keep other factors constant...you cannot honestly expect to produce manure with the same characteristics consistently.

This means we might need to analyse every batch of manure we acquire. This is not feasible for many of us. I don't bother with analyses. My operation is quite large and requires a lot of manure which I have had to source from multiple countries. Analysing them is the least of my priority.

My current preference is for NatSoil which is derived from Black Soldier Fly Frasse. I may still combine with chicken feed in the future.

I try to avoid the debate of which manure source is superior.

When I use manure now, it's more for boosting microbial activity in my soil rather than for dependence on specific nutrients. When you have the right microbes active in your soil their activity could help breakdown minerals that were previously in states that your crops could not access. Unfortunately, our heavy dependence on synthetic inputs counteracts the activities of microbes.

If anyone is interested in the nutritional composition of their manure they need to take to the lab, any information gotten from the internet on this would only serve as a general guide.

TangoAlpha:


The aggregated figures you provided at the end of the number of bags required for each type of fertilizer didn't come with say size of area covered, 1plot, 1 acre or 1 hectare.

If it's based on number of crops, how many crops do you recommend those quantities for? How many crops do you recommend per acre (range) given the spacing you suggested.

If you notice the recommendations I made is based on one plant (per plant), so the aggregated figures is that total number of Fertilisers you need for planting ONE cucumber plant. The table is in grams not bags (you mentioned bags in your post).

The reason I did it this way is to make it easier for everyone to understand. If I had made the recommendations in kg/hectare or lb/acre is might cause confusion and I would also have to recommend a strict plant spacing and the total number of plants. And then people will have to do a more complex maths using conversion rate etc.

The recommended spacing is not really for Fertiliser amount calculation (in the instructions), it more about the providing the optimum spacing for air flow, sun radiation and plant growth.

@TangoAlpha and @vosquare please signify if this is now clear for you.

Wizs2019:


If you notice the recommendations I made is based on one plant (per plant), so the aggregated figures is that total number of Fertilisers you need for planting ONE cucumber plant. The table is in grams not bags (you mentioned bags in your post).

The reason I did it this way is to make it easier for everyone to understand. If I had made the recommendations in kg/hectare or lb/acre is might cause confusion and I would also have to recommend a strict plant spacing and the total number of plants. And then people will have to do a more complex maths using conversion rate etc.

The recommended spacing is not really for Fertiliser amount calculation (in the instructions), it more about the providing the optimum spacing for air flow, sun radiation and plant growth.

@TangoAlpha and @vosquare please signify if this is now clear for you.

My bad.

I noticed at the start of the document that your recommendations were per plant. But at last table I didn't see the units (at first, until you mentioned it again here). I just assumed the aggregated figures were in bags or kg.

So I guess it helps whoever needs it to extrapolate based on the plant population they plan to do.

Thanks for the clarification.

TangoAlpha:


Well, many thanks for your response.

You have spoken well. Discussions around best nitrogen source are actually a bit controversial, elevated and complex. I won't say I fully understand it yet.

Nitrogen alters many constituents of plants; amino acids, phonetics, nucleic acids, total Nitrogen, protein and ratio of carbohydrates to Nitrogen. The listed constituents are linked to plant resistance or susceptibility to diseases.

Nitrogen is the main mineral factor changing the amount of cellulose in the plant and thereby affecting the mechanical strength of cell walls. Nitrogen promotes succulent tissues which allows some foliar pathogens to easily penetrate, multiply and develop rapidly.

So both Urea and Nitrate as sources of nitrogen are guilty of promoting this vulnerability. It appears that nitrates, perhaps because it triggers great plant response, accentuates the susceptibility to diseases more.

I would buffer my urea application with humid and folic acids for better overall results.

I am quite familiar with what Haifa cucumber document. I have used it as a main guide in one of my cucumber production cycles. The outcome wasnt bad at all.

The potassium products generally have fungicidal properties. My case against early application of potassium is that plant cells only have a certain room to absorbs positive ions like potassium calcium magnesium etc. But because potassium is more mobile, if you apply it earlier than calcium, it will occupy sites into the cells meant for calcium. Thereby reducing the ability of the crop to benefit from immunity promoting properties of calcium.

I didn't really say dont apply potassium at all at the start of the cycle. I said if your soil tests reveal you have some potassium, it might just be better you de-emphasize potassium application in favor of calcium.

Is it ok to apply potassium at anytime? Perhaps. But is it better to delay the application till later in the cycle?Definitely. Bear in mind that plants need almost all the nutrients they need at virtually all the stages. So I will apply some potassium regularly, but small doses before fruit stage. You also don't want to have potassium deficiency at any stage.

It is always better to have a balanced nutritional program at all stages. That's the best way to minimize susceptibility to diseases. Note that 'balanced' doesn't not imply 'equal'.

Because of my knowledge of the antagonistic relationship between potassium calcium and magnesium as well as that the need for potassium is greatest during fruit fill and that calcium is needed to boost immunity; I will rather delay application of potassium so that my crop can be given the best opportunity to develop its own immunity and so that my need for fungicides is minimized.


If I must apply potassium along with calcium, I will add boron and manganese. Boron assists with plant's ability to take up calcium. Manganese regulates the rate at which potassium is taken up.

It might be too general to say that manure contains all the required micro nutrients. It might actually be a fallacy. Manure is an excellent input to crop production. But unless we cannot confidently say what a batch of manure contains unless it is analyzed.

I am not a very public person. My intention is not to call you out. I only wanted to share some of the knowledge I have come by. Like I said it's very generous of you to share your production program. It will help a lot of us. Good enough you also have good results to back up your program with.

Haifa cucumber document is a good place to start. I have benefitted immensely from it. But it's merely a starting point.

Cheers

My brother, I will never take your inputs personally. In fact I cherish them. Anyone who cannot take corrections, inputs and criticism is sure to fail. I am not like that. I like to speak openly and clearly so anyone can fact check me and also point out mistakes I am making.

For everyone, I am not asking you to follow blindly, please run a pilot with recommendations and compare the results against what have been doing. One of my motto is Never follow blindly, question everything.

Personally, I would advise you against urea and ammonia sources of Nitrogen. If you have to use it, make sure more than half of the total Nitrogen is from Nitrate. @TangoAlpha please I hope you read the article in the link I attached previously. My brother just for me, run a small pilot where you substitute urea and Potassium Sulphate for just Potassium Nitrate, then come and tell me the result.

Final one on Potassium and Calcium, the key is not to apply any one of the two in excess. It is when there is excess you will that inhibiting other nutrients. The program I shared takes into account what is required and when.

Generally poultry Manure has pretty much all nutrients cucumber plants require. See attachment. Definitely it the amount will vary based on the chickens diet. Best bet if you have the time and money, get the manure analysed. One thing I will say on micronutrients is that it is quite rare to be deficient in them, I will even say it is much much easier to have excess because by their nature, they are mostly naturally available in soil, water etc.

Happy Sunday!

Wizs2019:


My brother, I will never take your inputs personally. In fact I cherish them. Anyone who cannot take corrections, inputs and criticism is sure to fail. I am not like that. I like to speak openly and clearly so anyone can fact check me and also point out mistakes I am making.

For everyone, I am not asking you to follow blindly, please run a pilot with recommendations and compare the results against what have been doing. One of my motto is Never follow blindly, question everything.

Personally, I would advise you against urea and ammonia sources of Nitrogen. If you have to use it, make sure more than half of the total Nitrogen is from Nitrate. @TangoAlpha please I hope you read the article in the link I attached previously. My brother just for me, run a small pilot where you substitute urea and Potassium Sulphate for just Potassium Nitrate, then come and tell me the result.

Final one on Potassium and Calcium, the key is not to apply any one of the two in excess. It is when there is excess you will that inhibiting other nutrients. The program I shared takes into account what is required and when.

Generally poultry Manure has pretty much all nutrients cucumber plants require. See attachment. Definitely it the amount will vary based on the chickens diet. Best bet if you have the time and money, get the manure analysed. One thing I will say on micronutrients is that it is quite rare to be deficient in them, I will even say it is much much easier to have excess because by their nature, they are mostly naturally available in soil, water etc.

Happy Sunday!

from what I have read and learnt now, it seems potassium nitrate will be a better option for fruiting cukes,I will really like to try that out but one of the problems we are having in the East is that most of this specialised fertilizers are hard to find,pls if anyone has any dealer or knows we're we can get it, pls he or she should help out with the contact, we have an emerging cukes farm I will like to try it on.

Wizs2019:


My brother, I will never take your inputs personally. In fact I cherish them. Anyone who cannot take corrections, inputs and criticism is sure to fail. I am not like that. I like to speak openly and clearly so anyone can fact check me and also point out mistakes I am making.

For everyone, I am not asking you to follow blindly, please run a pilot with recommendations and compare the results against what have been doing. One of my motto is Never follow blindly, question everything.

Personally, I would advise you against urea and ammonia sources of Nitrogen. If you have to use it, make sure more than half of the total Nitrogen is from Nitrate. @TangoAlpha please I hope you read the article in the link I attached previously. My brother just for me, run a small pilot where you substitute urea and Potassium Sulphate for just Potassium Nitrate, then come and tell me the result.

Final one on Potassium and Calcium, the key is not to apply any one of the two in excess. It is when there is excess you will that inhibiting other nutrients. The program I shared takes into account what is required and when.

Generally poultry Manure has pretty much all nutrients cucumber plants require. See attachment. Definitely it the amount will vary based on the chickens diet. Best bet if you have the time and money, get the manure analysed. One thing I will say on micronutrients is that it is quite rare to be deficient in them, I will even say it is much much easier to have excess because by their nature, they are mostly naturally available in soil, water etc.

Happy Sunday!

Thank you once again.

I wouldn't really want to go back and forth on the same issue.

Potassium Nitrate will give you very good yield. I have seen that happen on my farm. Yield isn't the reason I advised against it.

Potassium nitrate KN might give you a better yield in the short term. Because cukes need a lot of potassium during fruiting, if you are KN is your source of the K. You will also be providing a lot nitrogen. Which we shouldn't be doing during fruiting as I have said earlier.

Disease susceptibility appears to be more with direct nitrate being your primary source of Nitrogen.

From your experience, have you taken any notice if the day after you apply KN if you don't any particular pests invade your farm? If you it doesn't happen to you, great. Generally, KN is a big magnet for beetles.

Meanwhile, there is a restriction/ banon the importation of nitrate fertilizers, apparently for security reasons. They are now scarce. The ban, if it continues, is likely to impact availability.

The potassium- calcium relationship is something you need to research.

From the breakdown of the constituent of chicken manure you provided, there is no boron, molybdenum, cobalt.etc. I hope you know how important these are, particularly boron and molybdenum...


Like I implied earlier, your program is similar to one I used in my 2nd cucumber cycle this year. And the yield was my best upto that point.

But I have since come by superior information. Which is what I have tried to allude to.

If you are not comfortable with urea (even after I suggested you buffer it with fulvic and humid acids), no problems, nitrates will give you a good result in terms of yield. But please do not take the information about potassium-calcium relationship lightly.

TangoAlpha:


Thank you once again.

I wouldn't really want to go back and forth on the same issue.

Potassium Nitrate will give you very good yield. I have seen that happen on my farm. Yield isn't the reason I advised against it.

Potassium nitrate KN might give you a better yield in the short term. Because cukes need a lot of potassium during fruiting, if you are KN is your source of the K. You will also be providing a lot nitrogen. Which we shouldn't be doing during fruiting as I have said earlier.

Disease susceptibility appears to be more with direct nitrate being your primary source of Nitrogen.

From your experience, have you taken any notice if the day after you apply KN if you don't any particular pests invade your farm? If you it doesn't happen to you, great. Generally, KN is a big magnet for beetles.

Meanwhile, there is a restriction/ banon the importation of nitrate fertilizers, apparently for security reasons. They are now scarce. The ban, if it continues, is likely to impact availability.

The potassium- calcium relationship is something you need to research.

From the breakdown of the constituent of chicken manure you provided, there is no boron, molybdenum, cobalt.etc. I hope you know how important these are, particularly boron and molybdenum...


Like I implied earlier, your program is similar to one I used in my 2nd cucumber cycle this year. And the yield was my best upto that point.

But I have since come by superior information. Which is what I have tried to allude to.

If you are not comfortable with urea (even after I suggested you buffer it with fulvic and humid acids), no problems, nitrates will give you a good result in terms of yield. But please do not take the information about potassium-calcium relationship lightly.

I will heed your advice and do more research. I will run another pilot with urea and other Fertilisers you mentioned. The previous time I used urea I really didn't like the result at all but I make amendments as you have suggested.

But please if you have superior information please share it very clearly so that I can also improve and can better results. Or I am the only one willing to directly share info ooo? Just joking.

Regards.

funsoul:

After leaves browning and drying off,did the plant wilt or did any of the plant wilt?
Since this is rainy season apply systemic fungicides also

yes the plant wilt and all died.

Wizs2019:


Hello my people, Hope you're all enjoying the weekend. As I promised, please see my general cucumber instructions and the recipe of Fertilisers that I use for fertigation during the planting season. I tried to make the document concise. Please review, comment, critic, and discuss as you like.

Here is a list of some of the chemical products I use:

NEMATICIDE
Velum Prime

INSECTICIDE
Magic Force
Lamda
Caterpillar Force

FUNGICIDE
Cabrio Duo
Ridomil Gold

MISC
Super Grow

Please remember you are required to follow the label of any agricultural chemical by Law.

I am putting together a best practice document which I share soon.

Have a lovely weekend!

big thanks for this

gbengaoa:


yes the plant wilt and all died.

I had problems with some plants similar to what you had. Won't claim to know the cause but I did notice that it(wilting)started shortly after I applied fertilizer. I read somewhere that the fungal causing wilt can be aggravated by using excessive fertilizer(nitrogen in particular).
Prior to the wilting I also had some plants with yellowing and looked like magnesium deficiency. Tried to correct it but it didn't work. Then I saw an article on cucurbits yellows(try reading up on seminis.com) and I realised it was similar.
MY SOLUTION
I dont use npk again
I use more of manure
If I have to use synthetic fertilizer I dissolve very little amount in water and apply (crude fertigation)
I started spraying insecticides from week one. Now that its flowering and fruiting havent sprayed. Will use beauveria next and hope it works
If it is downy mildew the leaves will brown,dry up and die but it won't cause wilting, so I rule out downy mildew.
Will suggest you make more research yourself on the internet on causes and solution since you have all the pertinent info

Wizs2019:


Bro it is designed exactly for large scale farming. It is simple, just multiply by the number of plants you have to get total to apply, dissolve together in large barrel and fertigate all the plants at the same time. You are not meant to apply one by one to each plant .

Thanks.. So can I apply the fertilisers through the venturi?

Please guys...how long should tomatoes stay in nursery

okoroemeka:
from what I have read and learnt now, it seems potassium nitrate will be a better option for fruiting cukes,I will really like to try that out but one of the problems we are having in the East is that most of this specialised fertilizers are hard to find,pls if anyone has any dealer or knows we're we can get it, pls he or she should help out with the contact, we have an emerging cukes farm I will like to try it on.

Hello, we have most of the aforementioned fertilizers and we can waybill them to you anywhere within Nigeria

ifedola28:



Hello, we have most of the aforementioned fertilizers and we can waybill them to you anywhere within Nigeria

Where's your location?
Drop your phone number

Good morning good people!
Mr Okoro, any update for us sir from your Okra project.
I wish to start planting tomorrow but this constant rain this period is scary me. What was the germination rate?
I know that excess rain will surely affect germination.
Waiting for you responds soon. Thanks!

funsoul:

I had problems with some plants similar to what you had. Won't claim to know the cause but I did notice that it(wilting)started shortly after I applied fertilizer. I read somewhere that the fungal causing wilt can be aggravated by using excessive fertilizer(nitrogen in particular).
Prior to the wilting I also had some plants with yellowing and looked like magnesium deficiency. Tried to correct it but it didn't work. Then I saw an article on cucurbits yellows(try reading up on seminis.com) and I realised it was similar.
MY SOLUTION
I dont use npk again
I use more of manure
If I have to use synthetic fertilizer I dissolve very little amount in water and apply (crude fertigation)
I started spraying insecticides from week one. Now that its flowering and fruiting havent sprayed. Will use beauveria next and hope it works
If it is downy mildew the leaves will brown,dry up and die but it won't cause wilting, so I rule out downy mildew.
Will suggest you make more research yourself on the internet on causes and solution since you have all the pertinent info

Thank you so much. I'm on the second phase now, it's 3wks old, but may I ask, how many weeks will a cucumber fruit spend fruiting all things being equal

gbengaoa:


Thank you so much. I'm on the second phase now, it's 3wks old, but may I ask, how many weeks will a cucumber fruit spend fruiting all things being equal

The longest for me has been 6 weeks of harvest(2 harvests every week).

Idemujoseph:
Good morning good people!
Mr Okoro, any update for us sir from your Okra project.
I wish to start planting tomorrow but this constant rain this period is scary me. What was the germination rate?
I know that excess rain will surely affect germination.
Waiting for you responds soon. Thanks!

the okra farm is coming up slowly but surely,it loved sunlight like pepper,these periods of cold,damp and overcast weather is telling.but will post pics when my workers finishs weeding the farm.

Ok Sir!

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BECALMBECALM:
Thank you Mr Okroemeka. That is exactly what I was thinking.But I am considering availability of cheap farm land in Akwa ibom.I do not know if one can easily get cheap farmland to buy in Akwa ibom.For ilorin land is not an issue.Again thanks for answering my question (Chukwu gozie gi nwanne mmadu).

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There was a time I wanted to buy farmland in akwaibom, the village head I met said he could sell 1 hectare for 400k in Ini LGA, you can work with this price, go directly to the village heads