Ginalex:
What names and ranks did Jesus mention again?

The ranks are the texts you bolded. For more clarification they include;
1. Demons that go by fasting and prayer only.

2. Demons that go by just simple command.

3. Demons that go and bring seven other demons.

4. Demons that forms legion in their host.

5. Demons that tried to announce you before your time.

6. Principalities and powers.

7. Rulers of darkness.

8. Spiritual wickedness. etc.


Some names in the Bible include;
1. Behemoth.

2. Leviathan.

3. Dagon.

4. Molech.

5. Chemosh.

6. Baal. etc.

Thanks.

God bless.

Ginalex:
What names and ranks did Jesus mention again?

CaveAdullam:
The ranks are the texts you bolded. For more clarification they include;
1. Demons that go by fasting and prayer only.

2. Demons that go by just simple command.

3. Demons that go and bring seven other demons.

4. Demons that forms legion in their host.

5. Demons that tried to announce you before your time.

6. Principalities and powers.

7. Rulers of darkness.

8. Spiritual wickedness. etc.


Some names in the Bible include;
1. Behemoth.

2. Leviathan.

3. Dagon.

4. Molech.

5. Chemosh.

6. Baal. etc.

Thanks.

God bless.

Hmm, are you sure, you actually did answer the lady's question? Why have you let Satan fill your heart?

MuttleyLaff:


Hmm, are you sure, you actually did answer the lady's question? Why have you let Satan fill your heart?

The Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the one in the Old Testament, New Testament and even in this Era. Is the Bible no longer our focus point? Are all scriptures not given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

Thanks.

God bless

And the naysayers & detractors will still harden their hearts and put a wool over their eyes.

What a pity.

CaveAdullam:
The Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the one in the Old Testament, New Testament and even in this Era. Is the Bible no longer our focus point? Are all scriptures not given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

Thanks.

God bless

Nwanne, the question the lady asked was specifically about Jesus and what demon names and ranks did He mention nah. Ginalex never said anything about the Bible being a focus point, nor whether or not the scripture are given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but you derived pleasure in giving unsolicited information when all Ginalex was just interested in is, if at all, Jesus mentioned or not, the rank and file of demons. Stick to the program. Biko. Jor.

MuttleyLaff:
Nwanne, the question the lady asked was specifically about Jesus and what demon names and ranks did He mention nah. Ginalex never said anything about the Bible being a focus point, nor whether or not the scripture are given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but you derived pleasure in giving unsolicited information when all Ginalex was just interested in is, if at all, Jesus mentioned or not, the rank and file of demons

Lol.......Kikikikikikikiki. u nor go kill me with laff o oga.

So you are looking for where Jesus specifically mentioned demons and their ranks but you have been gladly preaching homosexuality everywhere you go as if Jesus even branch that side at all. Oga calm down!! Anyway that's not our topic of discussion.

The ranks and names I mentioned, are they in the Bible based on your Bible reading and understanding?

Where in the Bible are we advice to go to school and learn science or improve our education? Don't Christians have the Spirit of Wisdom to teach them or guide them in all things?

The Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks but shed light on the topic and it is my duty to investigate it, not to start worshipping them but know how to go about them during times of deliverance and also as a source of testimony and hope to others.

No scripture is of its own interpretation, scripture must explain scripture muttleylaff. If we must insist to follow only the words of Jesus Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John what about His revelations and words in other books of the bible? Should we do away with them?

Please let's call a spade a spade oga.

Whether you guys accept it or not, truth is truth and false is false, your opinion does not change anything but gives you a proper understanding of a better foundation on which to stand.

Remember I don't like wasting my phone ink over arguments.

Thanks.

God bless.

CaveAdullam:
Lol.......Kikikikikikikiki. u nor go kill me with laff o oga.

Glad to know you had a good laugh at yourself

CaveAdullam:
So you are looking for where Jesus specifically mentioned demons and their ranks but you have been gladly preaching homosexuality everywhere you go as if Jesus even branch that side at all.

You just couldnt help not getting sucked into stepping into the gutter and bringing up unrelated mentions into this conversation erhn?

CaveAdullam:
Oga calm down!! Anyway that's not our topic of discussion

It's you who needs to reduce your sugar intake,making you high. Glad you realise its not our topic of discussion

CaveAdullam:
The ranks and names I mentioned, are they in the Bible based on your Bible reading and understanding?

Stick to the program, stick to the scope and remit of the question. The question focused on Jesus, period.

CaveAdullam:
Where in the Bible are we advice to go to school and learn science or improve our education? Don't Christians have the Spirit of Wisdom to teach them or guide them in all things?

Jesus was what the question Ginalex asked about, not interested in your "aronda" questions

CaveAdullam:
The Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks but shed light on the topic and it is my duty to investigate it, not to start worshipping them but know how to go about them during times of deliverance and also as a source of testimony and hope to others.

CaveAdullam:
No scripture is of its own interpretation, scripture must explain scripture muttleylaff. If we must insist to follow only the words of Jesus Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John what about His revelations and words in other books of the bible? Should we do away with them?

Nobody asked you to follow anything, but only to give information specifically asked

CaveAdullam:
Please let's call a spade a spade oga.

Whether you guys accept it or not, truth is truth and false is false, your opinion does not change anything but gives you a proper understanding of a better foundation on which to stand.
Remember I don't like wasting my phone ink over arguments.
Thanks.

God bless.

Just pointing out the truth that your first response wasnt not truthful. Why say something that is not completely true, just in order to achieve an aim. Why couldnt you in the first place, had said to Ginalex's question, that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. I guess it was convenient for you to bury that information and gainful for you to advance something completely different to the actual question asked, erhn? Wasting phone ink on and over unsolicited info, smh.

CaveAdullam:
Lol.......Kikikikikikikiki. u nor go kill me with laff o oga.

Glad to know you had a good laugh at yourself

CaveAdullam:
So you are looking for where Jesus specifically mentioned demons and their ranks but you have been gladly preaching homosexuality everywhere you go as if Jesus even branch that side at all.

You just couldnt help not getting sucked into stepping into the gutter and bringing up unrelated mentions into this conversation erhn?

CaveAdullam:
Oga calm down!! Anyway that's not our topic of discussion

It's you who needs to reduce your sugar intake,making you high. Glad you realise its not our topic of discussion

CaveAdullam:
The ranks and names I mentioned, are they in the Bible based on your Bible reading and understanding?

Stick to the program, stick to the scope and remit of the question. The question focused on Jesus, period.

CaveAdullam:
Where in the Bible are we advice to go to school and learn science or improve our education? Don't Christians have the Spirit of Wisdom to teach them or guide them in all things?

Jesus was what the question Ginalex asked about, not interested in your "aronda" questions

CaveAdullam:
The Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks but shed light on the topic and it is my duty to investigate it, not to start worshipping them but know how to go about them during times of deliverance and also as a source of testimony and hope to others.

That wasnt hard after all, was it. Thank you. I dont think any of the apostles and disciples did either too.

CaveAdullam:
No scripture is of its own interpretation, scripture must explain scripture muttleylaff. If we must insist to follow only the words of Jesus Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John what about His revelations and words in other books of the bible? Should we do away with them?

Nobody asked you to follow anything, but only to give information specifically asked

CaveAdullam:
Please let's call a spade a spade oga.

Whether you guys accept it or not, truth is truth and false is false, your opinion does not change anything but gives you a proper understanding of a better foundation on which to stand.
Remember I don't like wasting my phone ink over arguments.
Thanks.

God bless.

Just pointing out the truth that your first response wasnt not truthful. Why say something that is not completely true, just in order to achieve an aim. Why couldnt you in the first place, had said to Ginalex's question, that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. I guess it was convenient for you to bury that information and gainful for you to advance something completely different to the actual question asked, erhn? Wasting phone ink on and over unsolicited info, smh. Learn and have the self-discipline to first answer questions before going on a whim and caprices

MuttleyLaff:
Glad to know you had a good laugh at yourself

You just couldnt help not getting sucked into stepping into the gutter and bringing up unrelated mentions into this conversation erhn?

It's you who needs to reduce your sugar intake,making you high. Glad you realise its not our topic of discussion

Stick to the program, stick to the scope and remit of the question. The question focused on Jesus, period.

Jesus was what the question Ginalex asked about, not interested in your "aronda" questions

That wasnt hard after all, was it. Thank you. I dont think any of the apostles and disciples did either too.

Nobody asked you to follow anything, but only to give information specifically asked

Just pointing out the truth that your first response wasnt not truthful. Why say something that is not completely true, just in order to achieve an aim. Why couldnt you in the first place, had said to Ginalex's question, that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. I guess it was convenient for you to bury that information and gainful for you to advance something completely different to the actual question asked, erhn? Wasting phone ink on and over unsolicited info, smh. Learn and have the self-discipline to first answer questions before going on a whim and caprices

OK I Don hear you.

The truth is left for anyone to examine.

Have a nice day.

Thanks.

God bless.

Bye.

CaveAdullam:
OK I Don hear you.

The truth is left for anyone to examine.

Have a nice day.

Thanks.

God bless.

Bye.

Not truth diluted, not truth omitted, as in, not first telling or admitting that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. It wasnt until after I laid into you that you practically was forced to admit that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks

MuttleyLaff:
Not truth diluted, not truth omitted, as in, not first telling or admitting that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. It wasnt until after I laid into you that you practically was forced to admit that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks

At least you can't protest that the information I shared are outside the Bible.

Have a nice day muttleylaff.

CaveAdullam:
At least you can't deny that the information I shared are outside the Bible.

Have a nice day muttleylaff.

This is beside the point. Nobody asked you about any poxy information, especially when you never in the first instance addressed the question originally asked by Ginalex. You completely just ignored the question and went on your own merry go round errand, talking about what no one asked you about and no one told you they are interested to know about.

I am pleased to know, you, though forced, confirmed that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. It is good to know that none of any of the apostles and disciples neither too specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. Guess they had better things to do

MuttleyLaff:
This is beside the point. Nobody asked you about any poxy information, especially when you never in the first instance addressed the question originally asked by Ginalex. You completely just ignored the question and went on your own merry go round errand, talking about what no one asked you about and no one told you they are interested to know about.

I am pleased to know, you, though forced, confirmed that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. It is good to know that none of any of the apostles and disciples neither too specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. Guess they had better things to do

ok

CaveAdullam:
ok

Arent you meant to be concentrating on lectures than responding to mentions on your phone hmm? Tsk, tsk tsk.

Ginalex:
What names and ranks did Jesus mention again?

According to the Bible, names or names...Jesus did teach his disciples on the subject matter of demons. There's no denying that.

On a side note, I want to hear from you if indeed you think Jesus revealed the operations of Demons to Kenneth Hagin or not?

And whether this book eventually written from such encounter, The Triumphant Church - Kenneth E. Hagin is unscriptural.

jesusjnr:
I leave it to God to prove if I be His servant or not, for that's not my job but His alone, for I have done my own job, so I leave Him to do His.

The above comment is the one before I left the thread at the time, and I quoted it because believe it is very relevant to what brought me back here, which can be drawn from this comment made by EnthronedbyGod:

EnthronedbyGod:
I never knew him, before I came to this forum, so how could I have known all the stuff about him.

I told thesame person who told me to caution him earlier something, which I haven't said here before, but I'll say it now.


I told the person that Jesusjnr was one of the reasons I came to this forum, because God made me realise that He wanted to rescue and restore him, and I tried to do what I was led to do , but I was rejected.

The most shocking part of all this is that, even while I was speaking in tongues today, I noticed I was still praying for him, this is to show you that God still loves him.

So the sentiments of the op which he shared with my attackers concerning me continued in this comment of his, so obviously that was not what brought me back. What brought me back was the bolded part of his comment, which is tongues.

And who gives utterances for tongues but the Holy Ghost?

So it was God doing His own job, and proving that I was truly His servant on this thread just as I had said before departing, since it wasn't my own job but His alone to do so.

And I believe that message was also intended to inform EnthronedbyGod concerning His thoughts towards me.

So that was what brought me back to this thread, it was not man but the Holy Ghost!

Therefore after God had brought me back to this thread via the Holy Ghost, especially considering what happened with those blasphemous threads which made a return to the religion page after I had left, I decided that no man was ever going to make me leave this thread again, not even the Op, because despite that he was the one that opened this thread, this thread belonged to God, and not to any man.

Moreover after i came back here by the Holy Ghost, I noticed that those numerous blasphemous threads on the religion section page had gone under once again, glory be to God!

To be continued.

https://www.nairaland.com/5252047/cultism-spiritual-consequences-deliverance-through/77#82001728

OkCornel:


According to the Bible, names or names...Jesus did teach his disciples on the subject matter of demons. There's no denying that.

On a side note, I want to hear from you if indeed you think Jesus revealed the operations of Demons to Kenneth Hagin or not?

And whether this book eventually written from such encounter, The Triumphant Church - Kenneth E. Hagin is unscriptural.

I asked about the names of demons Jesus mentioned and their ranks sir. Scriptural references please and not Kenneth E Hagin. Thanks in anticipation.

Ginalex:
I asked about the names of demons Jesus mentioned and their ranks sir. Scriptural references please and not Kenneth E Hagin. Thanks in anticipation.

My dear, I told you what the focus is. Names or no names, are you disputing the fact Jesus taught His disciples on the operations of Demons?

Yes or No.

Are you also in doubt Jesus revealed the operations of Demons to Kenneth Hagin? Yes or No



Even at that, even if Jesus taught His disciples names of Demons...we can never really know; afterall -

John 21 v 25;
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were recorded one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

OkCornel:


My dear, I told you what the focus is. Names or no names, are you disputing the fact Jesus taught His disciples on the operations of Demons?

Yes or No.

Are you also in doubt Jesus revealed the operations of Demons to Kenneth Hagin? Yes or No

I don't remember mentioning any name apart from the name of Jesus in the question I asked... Why do you assume everyone knows about Kenneth Hagin or believe in his ministry... I don't understand... Can't you to answer the question I asked without bringing in something I didn't ask about? If you can't, then please leave my question unanswered...

Again, I asked, what names of demons and ranks did Jesus mention?

Ginalex:
I don't remember mentioning any name apart from the name of Jesus in the question I asked... Why do you assume everyone knows about Kenneth Hagin or believe in his ministry... I don't understand... Can't you to answer the question I asked without bringing in something I didn't ask about? If you can't, then please leave my question unanswered...

Again, I asked, what names of demons and ranks did Jesus mention?

My dear, check where you quoted me on this thread. Did Jesus teach His disciples on the operations of Demons? Yes or No

And if you're looking for where exactly in the Bible He told His Apostles the names, unfortunately... Apostle John has this to tell you
John 21 v 25;
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were recorded one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

The Bible itself is not comprehensive enough to tell you everything Jesus did in His lifetime...so that brings me to Kenneth Hagin.

Did Jesus teach Hagin about Demons or not?
Connect the dots and get your answer to where Jesus revealed such. Unless your next line of argument is Jesus never revealed such to Hagin.

OkCornel:


My dear, check where you quoted me on this thread. Did Jesus teach His disciples on the operations of Demons? Yes or No

And if you're looking for where exactly in the Bible He told His Apostles the names, unfortunately... Apostle John has this to tell you
John 21 v 25;
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were recorded one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

The Bible itself is not comprehensive enough to tell you everything Jesus did in His lifetime...so that brings me to Kenneth Hagin.

Did Jesus teach Hagin about Demons or not?
Connect the dots and get your answer to where Jesus revealed such. Unless your next line of argument is Jesus never revealed such to Hagin.

k

Now something happened prior to my leaving this thread at the time, and it was this comment made by Liquidwords on this thread:

Liquidwords:


I willing to bet that you have never seen any vision of Jesus. Whatever it is you saw it wasn't The Lord Jesus Christ who gave himself for us. There are many false spirits in the world with strange voices and you are in their hold.

I am willing to bet you have never had an encounter with God. A man may preach for 50 years and never encounter God. From Genesis to Revelation every single soul who did great things for God did it on the wings of an encounter. No Christian outgrows spiritual encounter. Whatever "Level of Walk with the spirit" you have is a BIG figment of your imagination.

You have clearly never been caught up in heavenly visions, you don't know the voice of the Holy Spirit, you have never even healed someone with a headache.

This his comment particularly the bolded had to do with a thread I had opened to reveal the appearance of Jesus to me for the first time in a long while. So that was what he said he was willing to bet that it was false.

So he questioned my claim of the appearance of Jesus to me on this very thread, but to be honest that didn't bother me much since I knew it was borne out of ignorance of the Truth.

But it seemed that Someone had taken that particular comment made on this thread personal, and He made sure that appearance of Jesus to me was verified on this same thread where it was questioned, by the Op.

And this was how He did it according to EnthronedbyGod account:

EnthronedbyGod:


I can't say if this your question came at the right time or wrong, cos of the accusations that have been flying around, however I'm not moved by popular opinion, so I'll reply you.


A young man asked me if Jesus looked like most of the Jesus pics and I told him no, cos I had never seen any close to it.

The night before I came across the pics, I lay down speaking in tongues and it was as if I was feeling sleepy, suddenly I saw myself with my phone on nairaland on that exact thread where the pics was.


I logged in the next morning before 11am and came straight to the thread and it was what I saw the previous night, that was why I told you to post it here before I came back online in the evening , and I logged off immediately.

That was the only thing I came to do online that morning of thesame day when I logged in.

You can confirm through my posts and you'll see that it was the only post I made that morning of same day.


God bless

This was the OP's response to my question concerning on what brought him to that particular thread that very day and just moments after I had just confirmed the image @Okcornel had brought to me to verify if it was the face of Jesus who had appeared to me.

Although I had plans to later bring it to the OP to do same and confirm the Image since Jesus had also appeared to him before, but i was shocked to find him there already even before I had left the thread. And it was there and then he confirmed that as the image of Jesus he had seen, and requested me to post it on this very thread for him, which of course I gladly obliged.

So again it was the Holy Ghost that answered for me on that particular occasion, as the Op was led by the Holy Ghost while speaking in tongues to that particular thread of mine where the image of Jesus who appeared to me was .

So that was the second time the Holy Ghost has intervened on my behalf on this thread, but credit should also go to the Op for being led by the Holy Ghost and not the opinions of men, for that to me is what distinguishes him from the others.

However this led to the demonizing and persecution of the Op by several christians here, especially anas09 who called the Op a charlatan for yielding himself to the leading of the Holy Spirit in my respect, as her attacks on the Op had absolutely nothing to do with her excuse of him preaching about Satan, but all about him being led of the Holy Ghost concerning me.

But I know for a certainly that the Holy Ghost shall surely vindicate EnthronedbyGod for choosing to go with the Voice of God and not that of men.

To be continued.

https://www.nairaland.com/5252047/cultism-spiritual-consequences-deliverance-through/78#82054810

Very insightful thread. As much for the character dynamics as the differing theological positions and doctrinal persuasions. Mostly happy to read and reason. I do have some questions though.

OKCornel, you have been prominent on this thread. I wonder if you would be so kind as to share your thoughts and clarify your position on some issues? No problem if you cannot or do not feel so inclined for any reason.

From your submissions on the thread it appears that you believe that Mr. Hagin was sent by God, heard directly from The Lord and, that the revelation he claimed to receive are to be considered as near canonical.

Could you explain how you determine that 1, he (or anyone who claims to be) was indeed sent and 2, he (or anyone who claims to have) did actually hear from The Lord direct as claimed. Are there any objective criteria, especially scriptural pointers, for determining who, in this age, has an apostolic or prophetic mandate?

OkCornel:
Did Jesus teach Hagin about Demons or not?
Connect the dots and get your answer to where Jesus revealed such. Unless your next line of argument is Jesus never revealed such to Hagin.

By way of disclosure, I personally don't "follow" or even believe Mr. Hagin. Not to say that that necessarily falsifies his claims. More pertinently, I would never guide my own walk with God by what he claims was revealed to him.

However, please note, this is not about Mr. Hagin per se, but more about the underlying principles - I would hope we did not get bogged down in discussing personalities as opposed to precepts.

Cheers
TV

TV01, I'll reply your post later tonight.

Had a long day today. Need to get some rest.

Thanks.

Sleep is not forthcoming, so I'll do the needful.

TV01:
Very insightful thread. As much for the character dynamics as the differing theological positions and doctrinal persuasions. Mostly happy to read and reason. I do have some questions though.

OKCornel, you have been prominent on this thread. I wonder if you would be so kind as to share your thoughts and clarify your position on some issues? No problem if you cannot or do not feel so inclined for any reason.

From your submissions on the thread it appears that you believe that Mr. Hagin was sent by God, heard directly from The Lord and, that the revelation he claimed to receive are to be considered as near canonical.

Could you explain how you determine that 1, he (or anyone who claims to be) was indeed sent and 2, he (or anyone who claims to have) did actually hear from The Lord direct as claimed. Are there any objective criteria, especially scriptural pointers, for determining who, in this age, has an apostolic or prophetic mandate?


By way of disclosure, I personally don't "follow" or even believe Mr. Hagin. Not to say that that necessarily falsifies his claims. More pertinently, I would never guide my own walk with God by what he claims was revealed to him.

However, please note, this is not about Mr. Hagin per se, but more about the underlying principles - I would hope we did not get bogged down in discussing personalities as opposed to precepts.

Cheers
TV

TV01, the answers to your questions lies in what the Holy Spirit bears witness to you.

1) There are those who are truly sent, started well and went astray along the way and started preaching half-truths.

2) There are those who are truly sent, started well, and finished well.

What's the difference between those two? Choosing to either obey or neglect the Spirit of God.


The scriptural pointer I can give you is 1 John 2 v 26-27;

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him




TV01, if you are one with the Holy Spirit, you will clearly know within your Spirit between the two as the Spirit of God bears witness to you.


Look at where 1 John 2 v 27 states that the anointing shall teach you ALL THINGS and is the TRUTH.

You really want to hear my story and why this topic has been of interest to me?

Thanks for your response. However I don't get a sense that my questions have been addressed.

OkCornel:
TV01, the answers to your questions lies in what the Holy Spirit bears witness to you.

And, I do not have a witness to Mr. Hagin, but that in itself does not faslify his claims. It could be my witness that is faulty/wrong. And whilst it's fine for individuals to take any position they feel "led" to - what of the body as a whole?

Afterall, your position is that his utterances as posted are a direct revelation and near canonical. How as a body do we verify any claims to calling or allegations of divine revelation?

OkCornel:
1) There are those who are truly sent, started well and went astray along the way and started preaching half-truths.

Again, there is some presumption here;

- Someone is divinely commissioned, given specific revelation and suddenly veers of course. Yet the One who commissioned such a one will allow them to continue to preach that which is false - wihtout correcting or replacing them - potentially harming individuals and the body as a whole, not to mention causing His holy name to be blasphemed?

- How in the first instance do we validate any claims to being "sent"? What man sent of God in the NT followed this trajectory?

OkCornel:
2) There are those who are truly sent, started well, and finished well.

Same here, regards my comments above. You have an a priori assumption of them being "sent"

OkCornel:
What's the difference between those two? Choosing to either obey or neglect the Spirit of God.

In a sense, it's a false dichotomy - all are sent, some miss road? Not all are sent. False prophets and the like are not those truly sent who fall into error are they?

OkCornel:

The scriptural pointer I can give you is 1 John 2 v 26-27;
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

There are abundant scriptural pointers that speak to testing, requirements for office and the like that guide the body of Christ as a whole. Is the discernment here to be solely spirit-led? Is there no recourse to scripture?

OkCornel:
TV01, if you are one with the Holy Spirit, you will clearly know within your Spirit between the two as the Spirit of God bears witness to you.

My position regards many of the prominent "MOGs" out there is that they are not sent in the first instance. You present 2 options which both assume an a priori divine calling. What of those that are outright false?

The scripture speaks mostly to falsehood of wolves than the error of sheep. I am sure I am personally in doctrinal error on some points

OkCornel:
You really want to hear my story and why this topic has been of interest to me?

Happy for you to share, but like I said, I wouldn't want this to be about personalities, but about precepts.

I had a sequence of questions I intended to ask, which has all but been derailed at the off. However, let me persevere. You have attested to OP and to Mr. Hagin. What if two people you witness too make contradictory claims?

Cheers
TV

TV01:
Thanks for your response. However I don;t get a sense that my questions have been directly answered.

And, I do not have a witness to Mr. Hagin, but that in itself does not faslify his claims. It could be my witness that is faulty/wrong. And whilst it's fine for individuals to take any position they feel "led" to - what of the body as a whole?

As long as it is the Spirit of God leading a man to take decisions, rather than the soul of man leading him to make decisions...there is no cause for concern. Anyone led of the Spirit of God can never be wrong. The passage of time eventually vindicates such a person

TV01:

Afterall, your position is that his utterances as posted are a direct revelation and near canonical. How as a body do we verify any claims to calling or allegations of divine revelation?

The answer again is this. The witness of the Spirit of God to your Spirit. Ask Him, and He will lead you to the Truth. In addition, just like the Berean Christians studied the scriptures (a product of the Spirit of God) before accepting the teachings of Paul. Do same, but obviously with the guidance of the Spirit of God, rather than the thoughts and ideologies of your soul.

TV01:

Again, there is some presumption here;

- Someone is divinely commissioned, given specific revelation and suddenly veers of course. Yet the One who commissioned such a one will allow them to continue to preach that which is false - wihtout correcting or replacing them - potentially harming individuals and the body as a whole, not to mention causing His holy name to be blasphemed?
- How in the first instance do we validate any claims to being "sent"? What man sent of God in the NT followed this trajectory?

The bolded is an unfortunate reality. But no genuine believer has an excuse to be misled. It simply means they are listening to the voice of men, rather than the Spirit of God. Before anything from the altar is believed, cross check with the Spirit of God for validation. Again, 1 John 2 v 26-27. If every believer sees the Spirit of God as even more important than the oxygen he or she breathes, the church which has degenerated to a mockery of the version of the church in Acts of Apostles wouldn't have degenerated this bad.

Still on the bolded, even the early church had its controversies, where one of the appointed deacons in Acts - Nicolas went on to propagate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which Jesus warned strongly against in Revelation 2. Guess what, in Acts 6 v 4-6: the early church chose Nicolas amongst the 7, and the Apostles laid hands and prayed on them (Nicolas inclusive).

TV01:

Same here, regards my comments above. You have an a priori assumption of them being "sent"

I don't have an a priori assumption. The Spirit of God is my standard. If I hear nothing, sorry. I maintain a neutral stand.

TV01:

In a sense, it's a false dichotomy - all are sent, some miss road? Not all are sent. False prophets and the like are not those truly sent who fall into error are they?

Refer to example of deacon Nicolas and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans in the early church.

TV01:

There are abundant scriptural pointers that speak to testing, requirements for office and the like that guide the body of Christ as a whole. Is the discernment here to be solely spirit-led? Is there no recourse to scripture?

The Spirit of God is the source, the scriptures are the product. The Spirit of God gives you a clear answer, the scripture (if comprehensive enough) shows you the written truth to validate that. In the absence of the written truth, the passage of time will validate what the Spirit of God told you earlier. The Truth (either written or unwritten) can be witnessed and observed with the passage of time.



As regards the scripture regarding test all Spirits, this is what it says;

1 John 4 v 1-3;

1. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

Any Spirit that does not confess Jesus came in flesh and blood, and is not from God is a lying spirit. Clearly, the OP and Kenneth Hagin aren't in that category. Unless you think otherwise. I don't know of any other scriptural reference on testing Spirits, would be glad if you could show me.

TV01:

My position regards many of the prominent "MOGs" out there is that they are not sent in the first instance. You present 2 options which both assume an a priori divine calling. What of those that are outright false?
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There are obviously those called by their bellies and selfish interest. Didn't include them in my earlier illustration. The point I was passing across there was that, the Spirit of God remains THE ULTIMATE STANDARD to reveal the Truth to you.

TV01:

The scripture speaks mostly to falsehood of wolves than the error of sheep. I am sure I am personally in doctrinal error on some points

Definitely, John, James, Peter, Jude amongst other church leaders wrote well on this subject matter.

TV01:

Happy for you to share, but like I said, I wouldn't want this to be about personalities, but about precepts.

I had a sequence of questions I intended to ask, which has all but been derailed at the off. However, let me persevere. You have attested to OP and to Mr. Hagin. What if two people you witness too make contradictory claims? What if two people you witness too make contradictory claims?
Cheers
TV

Again, the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Truth will eventually reveal the Truth to you IF YOU ASK, AND IF YOU ARE STILL (QUIET) IN SPIRIT TO LISTEN TO HIS ANSWER. It could even be possible for both men to be wrong, or have different perspectives on the matter, whilst you have a holistic 360 degree view on the matter after getting revelation from the Spirit of God...thus reconciling seeming contradictions in the first place.

ASK, AND YE SHALL FIND. KNOCK AND THE DOOR WILL OPEN.

Thanks again OKCornel. However, again, I still don't have a sense of my questions being directly addressed. As well as considering divine revelation claims at the level of canon, there is also a suggestion that the written canon is somehow distinct to the Holy Spirit?

2 Timothy 3:16- All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The Holy Spirit leads us primarily into the truth of the scripture He inspired. It's illumination of the scriptures unto a revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

OkCornel:
As long as it is the Spirit of God leading a man to take decisions, rather than the soul of man leading him to make decisions...there is no cause for concern. Anyone led of the Spirit of God can never be wrong. The passage of time eventually vindicates such a person.

As I stated, individuals can adopt any position they feel led too - however or by whatever led. This does not answer how the body of Christ is supposed to verify and test claims.

There is clear scriptural direction and instruction, as well as structure and order - inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. Why would we not expect the Holy Spirit to provide illumination first via the scripture He breathed?

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit

How counter-intuitive is it to say we take all non-canonical revelations and then ask the Holy Spirit if they are true or not and, to do so as individuals, when the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures with clear guidance are with us. Is God the author of confusion or the kind disarray this will surely lead to?

OkCornel:
The answer again is this. The witness of the Spirit of God to your Spirit. Ask Him, and He will lead you to the Truth. In addition, just like the Berean Christians studied the scriptures (a product of the Spirit of God) before accepting the teachings of Paul. Do same, but obviously with the guidance of the Spirit of God, rather than the thoughts and ideologies of your soul.

I believe I have spoken to this repeatedly above

OkCornel:
The bolded is an unfortunate reality. But no genuine believer has an excuse to be misled. It simply means they are listening to the voice of men, rather than the Spirit of God. Before anything from the altar is believed, cross check with the Spirit of God for validation. Again, 1 John 2 v 26-27. If every believer sees the Spirit of God as even more important than the oxygen he or she breathes, the church which has degenerated to a mockery of the version of the church in Acts of Apostles wouldn't have degenerated this bad.

So God sends those He knows will teach error - so how do we know there is no error that has been canonised? Why can we not be told by some that parts of scripture are wrong, outdated or to be overturned, as indeed some do?

Still on the bolded, even the early church had its controversies, where one of the appointed deacons in Acts - Nicolas went on to propagate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which Jesus warned strongly against in Revelation 2. Guess what, in Acts 6 v 4-6: the early church chose Nicolas amongst the 7, and the Apostles laid hands and prayed on them (Nicolas inclusive). I have studied the Nicolaitian heresy, however, it does not speak to my posers - and how was the heresy forestalled?

OkCornel:
I don't have an a priori assumption. The Spirit of God is my standard. If I hear nothing, sorry. I maintain a neutral stand.

First, the Spirit breathed scriptures are always the first and foremost standard for the body. Secondly, your stance on this thread has been anything but neutral, which is why I had questions for you, as you have been clear on your position, which is admirable.

OkCornel:
Refer to example of deacon Nicolas and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans in the early church.

As noted, I have. I does not teach that heresy is countered by individual recourse to the Holy Spirit

OkCornel:
The Spirit of God is the source, the scriptures are the product. The Spirit of God gives you a clear answer, the scripture (if comprehensive enough) shows you the written truth to validate that. In the absence of the written truth, the passage of time will validate what the Spirit of God told you earlier. The Truth (either written or unwritten) can be witnessed and observed with the passage of time.

I have spoken to this

OkCornel:

As regards the scripture regarding test all Spirits, this is what it says;

1 John 4 v 1-3;

1. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

Any Spirit that does not confess Jesus came in flesh and blood, and is not from God is a lying spirit. Clearly, the OP and Kenneth Hagin aren't in that category. Unless you think otherwise. I don't know of any other scriptural reference on testing Spirits, would be glad if you could show me.

Then perhaps illumination is required. Contrast that scripture with this;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

OkCornel:
There are obviously those called by their bellies and selfish interest. Didn't include them in my earlier illustration. The point I was passing across there was that, the Spirit of God remains THE ULTIMATE STANDARD to reveal the Truth to you.

Firstly, the ultimate standard of the Spirit of God remains the scriptures He breathed, not individual claims of divine revelation. Especially for the body as a whole and moreso for matters wholly captured in scripture.

OkCornel:
Again, the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Truth will eventually reveal the Truth to you IF YOU ASK, AND IF YOU ARE STILL (QUIET) IN SPIRIT TO LISTEN TO HIS ANSWER. It could even be possible for both men to be wrong, or have different perspectives on the matter, whilst you have a holistic 360 degree view on the matter after getting revelation from the Spirit of God...thus reconciling seeming contradictions in the first place.

So, two people, who claim divine revelation, who your spirit bears witness to, make contradictory revelatory claims (revelations which you claim are essentially canonical) there is the possibility of error? Error which the Holy Spirit will clear up given time? if the contradictions are attested to by scripture?

Cheers
TV

^^^ I'll address your response shortly.


TV01, what is your understanding of the scriptures?

What do you refer to as the Scriptures?

1 John 2 v 26-27 clearly mentioned the Spirit of God will lead a believer into ALL TRUTH. Can all TRUTH be documented?

TV01:
... However, again, I still don't have a sense of my questions being directly addressed.
As well as considering divine revelation claims at the level of canon, there is also a suggestion that the written canon is somehow distinct to the Holy Spirit?

2 Timothy 3:16- All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The Holy Spirit leads us primarily into the truth of the scripture He inspired. It's illumination of the scriptures unto a revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As I stated, individuals can adopt any position they feel led too - however or by whatever led. This does not answer how the body of Christ is supposed to verify and test claims.

There is clear scriptural direction and instruction, as well as structure and order - inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. Why would we not expect the Holy Spirit to provide illumination first via the scripture He breathed?

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit

How counter-intuitive is it to say we take all non-canonical revelations and then ask the Holy Spirit if they are true or not and, to do so as individuals, when the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures with clear guidance are with us. Is God the author of confusion or the kind disarray this will surely lead to?

I believe I have spoken to this repeatedly above

So God sends those He knows will teach error - so how do we know there is no error that has been canonised? Why can we not be told by some that parts of scripture are wrong, outdated or to be overturned, as indeed some do?

Still on the bolded, even the early church had its controversies, where one of the appointed deacons in Acts - Nicolas went on to propagate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which Jesus warned strongly against in Revelation 2. Guess what, in Acts 6 v 4-6: the early church chose Nicolas amongst the 7, and the Apostles laid hands and prayed on them (Nicolas inclusive). I have studied the Nicolaitian heresy, however, it does not speak to my posers - and how was the heresy forestalled?

First, the Spirit breathed scriptures are always the first and foremost standard for the body. Secondly, your stance on this thread has been anything but neutral, which is why I had questions for you, as you have been clear on your position, which is admirable.

As noted, I have. I does not teach that heresy is countered by individual recourse to the Holy Spirit

I have spoken to this

Then perhaps illumination is required. Contrast that scripture with this;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Firstly, the ultimate standard of the Spirit of God remains the scriptures He breathed, not individual claims of divine revelation. Especially for the body as a whole and moreso for matters wholly captured in scripture.

So, two people, who claim divine revelation, who your spirit bears witness to, make contradictory revelatory claims (revelations which you claim are essentially canonical) there is the possibility of error? Error which the Holy Spirit will clear up given time? if the contradictions are attested to by scripture?

Cheers
TV

You know you've "entered one chance" when again, you still don't have a sense of your questions being directly addressed