₦airaland Forum

DrWillie:
Only you quoting Proverbs 23.31 'we shouldn't look at alcohol.
Then you come to Deuteronomy 14.26 and say we can bring strong drinks to God. That's we have to set our eyes on the alcohol now shey? Guy please stop. Just go and be good follow Christ leave all this distractions.

"Don't look at it" means don't look at it with the desire to drink it. It's the same as Jesus saying we shouldn't look at a woman with lust in our eyes. Does that mean we shouldn't look at women? No, we can look at women, but when we start to have lust for what we are looking at, it becomes sin.

So, God is not tempting you by saying you should bring alcohol to offer to him. Same way he's not tempting men by creating women. Once you remove lust from your heart, you won't have issues with alcohol and women.

Shut up you mouth. Rapture ko. Rapture ni.

Chosen1984:
Ok sir.... Rapture will Tell

alBHAGDADI:
The Bold part is where your problem lie, lazy reader. If you had read the entire write-up, you would have seen that the Bible speaks two kinds of wine: Fruit juice and alcoholic beverage.

Paul didn't advice Timothy to take alcohol. It was fruit juice he advised. Telling Timothy to take alcohol is the same as going against the Book of Proverbs 23:31 that says we shouldn't even look at alcoholic wine not to talk of drinking it, regardless of the amount.


Now, go back and read the OP again, Mr personal encounter with God who throws away the word of God just to operate based on his own conscience.

Oga you made no point in that your thread. Take it or leave it.

MrPresident1:
Asteroid is coming, asteroid is coming, protect your skulls in Jesus.
Before 30th September 2019

Must u quote a whole page Monkey!

alBHAGDADI:
Yes, I do. Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Italy that tell people to bow down to statue of Mary which is contrary to God's word?

Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Germany whom Martin Luther rose up against because they were teaching errors and satanic doctrines?

YES, I know more than them and it's all by God's grace.

Lol. god the judge. Keep deceiving yourself.

What's the name of the asteroid?

MrPresident1:
Today is not the day to be discussing whether to drink wine or not. Today is the day to be stridently warning the people to protect their skulls by hiding it in Jesus.

Asteroid is coming before 30th September 2019

MrCEO69:
The proverb is a word of wisdom from Solomon so, it like an advice, now a law, and getting drunk is not a sin, but it leads to sin that is why. I dnt drink nor tasted it except palm wine, even kunu has alcohol in it. There is a verses u miss to mention that wine should be given to the person in pain so he forgets his pain, I don't wish a friend or brother to be a drunker, I hate it but, ur though on calling it a sin is some how, even holy communion we have in church is alcohol wine.

The Book of Proverbs is the law of God used for correction and instructions just as every other scripture.

2Tim.3 Verses 16 to 17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


The passage you are talking about is for fools who want to perish. They are in poverty but think strong drink will erase it. No, it will only make them forget about their poverty while they are drunk. As soon as the drunkenness disappears, they realize that they are still poor. Such people ought to work to get out of poverty, not take the route of alcohol.

Proverbs 31:6-7 King James Version (KJV)
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

biggerboyc:
How many times have you been drunk of water, and please how does it feel

Empty a tank into your belly, then come back and tell me.

Buckubuck:
This ur theory would imply that God expressly told Israelites not to drink alcoholic wine in the old testament. There is no evidence to prove this though. Conversely, there's ample evidence to prove wine being drunk in those times were alcoholic. A look at Jeremiah and the Rechabites is another prime example. Even till now, most wine produced in the Mediterranean are alcoholic. If you've seen wine from Israel, you'll know.
The express command on drunkenness is found in the NY only

Go and read Porverbs 23:31 and beyond to see God telling people not to drink wine, not to even look at it

echibuogwu:
You see how confuse u are now... we should stay away from alcohol in beer and wine but we cam take the ones in medicines and soft drink. OP, u are completely insane.

What's the percentage of alcohol in soft drink and fruit juice? Can you call it alcohol at all? Can a +18 be placed on them? No

... Christianity is a personal encounter with God. When you do encounter God, you will be living by his directions. If He tells you to drink, you do. If otherwise, don't.


THESE WORDS OF YOURS SHOULD BE ENGRAVED IN MARBLE.

"...Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you..."

obstead200:
bro, u are sounding stupid. The bible encourage moderation in everything

Yes, moderation in fornication, adultery and gay sex, right?

sammycashly:
Bro there is nothing called fruit wine....anything called wine is alcoholic... the wine the Israelite drank in the bible were alcoholic...any wine you drink that that you non alcoholic its Nevers a wine its a fruit juice packaged in a wine bottle....you see in the olden days there is no unalcoholic wine...wine is wine and its toxic.. any wine you drink that's not alcoholic is a fruit juice...so the water Jesus turn to wine is alcoholic OK?...but am not saying drink or don't drink

Do you eat grapes? Do you know that the content in the cluster is called wine according to Isaiah 65:8? Such wine is not alcoholic. The alcoholic one is made by crushing the grapes and adding yeast to it.

Awol1:
Quiet an epistle you have here. I admit I couldn't read all. But I went through your bible quotations looking for 2nd letter of St. Paul to Timothy where Paul advised Timothy to take little wine because it's good for his stomach.

You conspicuously left that aspect of the bible out ( that's if you know of it's existence at all) and chose the passages that support your thrashy talk.

Jesus himself turned water into wine at the wedding of Cana.

St. Paul then advised Timothy to take little wine because it's good for his stomach.

At last the bible says too much of everything is bad. That should be your guiding principle. Even too much of food is bad.

Christianity is not as hard as you gods of men make it.

Las las, true Christianity is a personal encounter with God. When you do encounter God, you will be living by his directions. If He tells you to drink, you do. If otherwise, don't.

Enough of this lengthy corrugation on wine plz.

Gbam, spot on bro, u just said it all in a nutshell.

safarigirl:
I have never read one intelligent post from this OP

Congrats bro, you never disappoint

His moniker is albhagdadi for starters

samonak:
Here comes the question:

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT ALCOHOLIC CONSUMPTION?

Many religious people believe that God has forbidden any use of alcoholic beverages — that any use of alcohol is wrong and sinful. They claim that the Bible supports this prohibition, just like you claim too. Wine/alcoholic drinks are frequently mentioned in the Bible. If something sinful or beneficial exists about these beverages, then the Bible will show it. What does the Bible really say about wine and alcohol?

WINE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
One of the first mentions of wine in Scripture is by Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God at Salem (Jerusalem) during the time of Abram, whose name was later changed to Abraham. Melchizedek “brought forth bread and wine” for Abram and his companions (Genesis 14:18). Since the scriptures was born out of the Jewish context, it is better we consider the "sitz im leben" (life setting or cultural context) of the words of the scriptures in relation to the Jewish culture in order to aid better understanding. In this vein, language comes into play. From the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), the Hebrew word for wine in Genesis 14:18 is "yayin". This word is used over 130 times in the Hebrew Bible to mean "FERMENTED WINE", not grape juice as you may think. This same beverage (yayin or alcoholic wine), when used excessively, causes drunkenness. Genesis 9:21 says that Noah drank too much yayin and became drunk. Lot also became drunk on this beverage (Genesis 19:30-36), and so did Nabal (1 Samuel 25:36).

Nevertheless, God told his people to enjoy yayin at the yearly festivals (Deuteronomy 14:26). In addition to using wine as a beverage, God also commanded the Levitical priests to include in the sacrifices a portion of wine (yayin) as a drink offering (Exodus 29:40). These scriptural passages make it clear that there can be a right and a wrong use of wine.
Naturally fermented wine is between 10 percent and 14 percent alcohol. Higher alcoholic wines are fortified wines. On special occasions, God even allowed use of what is translated as “strong drink.” This term comes from a different Hebrew word — "shekar" — which is used 22 times in the Old Testament, and refers to alcoholic drinks made from dates and other fruit. The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad (Psalm 104:15). Why have some people turned this blessing of God into a curse? The answer is that many people do not follow God’s instructions. A blessing of wine was prophesied as a heritage to the chosen people in Genesis 27:28: “May God give you heaven’s dew and earth’s richness — an abundance of grain and new wine (tirosh).” The Hebrew word tirosh, meaning “new wine”. People sometimes conclude that this word means grape juice, or fresh-pressed juice of the vine. However, Hosea 4:11 states: “Old wine (yayin) and new wine (tirosh) take away their understanding." Grape-juice do not possess this effect. Put differently, Tirosh is an intoxicating wine if used in excess.

Having journeyed through the Old Testament, let us take a look at the new Testament.

WINE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
While the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament on the other hand was entirely written in Greek. Hence, we shall focus our mind on the Greek language in which the New testament was written. John the Baptist did not drink wine (oinos in the Greek) or any other form of alcohol because it was prophesied that he wouldn’t (Luke 1:15). However, Jesus Christ drank oinos (wine) (cf. Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he drank like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking, and was one of the principal beverages at that time — as it is today.

According to the Greek Bible, Jesus’ first miracle was to change water into wine (oinos) NOT grape juice. Some people who preach total abstinence claim that this miracle was to turn water into grape juice. LOL… This is because, they tend to interpret the Scriptures based on their "myopic understanding". Can you imagine a Jewish wedding banquet where everyone drank only grape juice?! (which is very difficult to imagine). The ancients did not have refrigeration or any other method of preventing grape juice from fermenting. On this occasion, Christ turned six jars of 20 or 30 gallons each into wine (oinos). This was no small miracle. This wine was of the finest quality — “You have saved the best wine till now” (John 2:10). At wedding feasts, the hosts normally started with the best wine, and they would bring out lesser-quality wines later.
Jesus gave a parable involving the fermenting process of oinos (alcoholic wine) in Matthew 9:17. At that time, instead of having metal or glass bottles to enclose wine, the skins of animals were used. The fermentation of the wine could burst an old skin, but it would not break a new stretchable skin. Another proof that oinos is fermented wine is the fact that the apostle Paul said, “Do not get drunk on wine (oinos)” (Ephesians 5:18). Paul did not mean to avoid getting drunk on grape juice! Paul instructed Timothy, “Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine (oinos) because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses” (1 Timothy 5:23). He said to use only a little wine, not a whole lot. The purpose of this wine was Timothy’s frequent stomach ailments; small amounts of wine can help some stomach problems.

Some of the Corinthian Christians were getting drunk at the Lord’s Supper (1 Corinthians 11:21). They were using fermented wine, following the example that Christ had set for them. Paul did not tell them that they were using the wrong kind of wine. He simply told them to eat and drink at home, and to participate in the Lord’s Supper in a respectful way. In Romans 14:21, Paul says that it is good not to drink wine or eat meat if it offends a weak brother. He is referring to fermented wine; grape juice wouldn’t offend anyone. The implication is that there’s nothing wrong with the wine in itself, except when it is abused.

However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol, like the beer Pope Benedict XVI (emeritus) drank on his 90th birthday.
Alcohol, consumed in moderation, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of alcohol in moderation is a matter of CHRISTIAN FREEDOM.
If you're weak, then do not consider drinking it. Drunkenness and addiction are sinful; and this is exactly what the Bible condemns.

Above all, I am not proposing that alcohol must be consumed by all; if you maintain that intake of alcohol is bad for you, ok! That is simply your opinion; as pointed out, It is a matter of "Christian Freedom", hence, do not look with disdain on someone who consumes alcohol in moderation or consider him/her a sinner. Besides, not only excessive intake of alcohol is a sin, the bible also condemns gluttony (such as excessive intake of food etc.) Hence, if you consume an excessive amount of soft drinks or other foods, it is also a sin!

you simply helped the OP out without manipulating the the word like the op attempted to do. I have heard this from many ignorant pastors trying hard to disrupt the truth in the Bible just because they want to discourage alcohol usage. what is the problem with Africans with this fake morals?

alBHAGDADI:
What's the percentage of alcohol in soft drink and fruit juice? Can you call it alcohol at all? Can a +18 be placed on them? No

Shut up, even if it’s 0.0001%, it’s still an alcohol. What may be strong for you may not be strong for me. Stop spilling rubbish all in the name to cover ur foolishness, the Bible is just against drinking too much alcohol because of what it may do to you and how addictive it is, the Bible is also against eatin too much but it doesn’t mean it’s a sin. It’s just good morals.

What of the simple things the Bible commanded that we don't ever do.

Like... Loving our neighbours

alBHAGDADI:
"Don't look at it" means don't look at it with the desire to drink it. It's the same as Jesus saying we shouldn't look at a woman with lust in our eyes. Does that mean we shouldn't look at women? No, we can look at women, but when we start to have lust for what we are looking at, it becomes sin.

So, God is not tempting you by saying you should bring alcohol to offer to him. Same way he's not tempting men by creating women. Once you remove lust from your heart, you won't have issues with alcohol and women.

Thank you for this piece of watery answer.
Did you see the contradiction in it compared with what you said at the beginning of your epistle? Let me quote you:

"Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it"

How do you prepare alcohol as offering to God, when God himself forbids you not to go near alcohol? Does this make any sense to you?
Admit to yourself that what God forbids, He won't ask you to PREPARE it, and then offer it to him. Alcohol doesn't flow naturally in streams or rivers. It doesn't fall from the skies like rain. It is produced by man.
Now, why would God ask man to ferment fruits and produce alcohol if it is forbidden by God?
See, I stopped listening to god of men long ago. The scripture has been subjected to much misinterpretations. Yours right here is one of them.

What God forbids, He won't ask you to produce it and offer it to Him!
Why didn't God tell man to offer the idols and graven images man made to God? He didn't because he forbids them. He clearly told man not to create or worship other gods.
If God allows man to ferment and produce alcohol, and then offer it to him in worship, what argument are you making here? In other words, you're trying to tell us God loves alcohol, but He doesn't want us to drink it?

Once you understand this very simple logic, then you will realize that all that lengthy sermon of yours doesn't wash.
See your comparison with women. God created women, and he clearly admonished us to get married if we can't keep from sexual sin (especially for priests).
God didn't create alcohol directly like He did women. Man did. Man discovered the process of producing alcohol. God saw it and didn't rebuke man. Rather, God accepted it as offering. Do you understand something simple and basic as that?

alBHAGDADI:
Weed was created by God, so go smoke it. Snake venom was created by God, so go allow a snake to bite you.

weed is created and use for medicinal purposes!! But people abuses. Snake venom is use to fight poison! Go do research and say more.

Tosinex:
weed is created and use for medicinal purposes!! But people abuses. Snake venom is use to fight poison! Go do research and say more.

Yes, smoke weed then step it down with snake venom because God created both.

Kryto:
OK, that's really good to know. So what about weed? Since it was never mentioned in the Bible also considering the fact it's natural, devil didn't create it. As a Christian weed is allowed na. Abi?

Of course weed is allowed, just like any other medicine, as long as it is not abused.
Marijuana is actually a medicine. You can google the drug Dronabinol, made from weed, used to stimulate appetite.
Personally, as a Christian, I am against smoking weed for recreation. That should be classified as drug abuse. A good Christian should not be in the business of abusing drugs.

you are saying most of the Bible passages that encourage drinking of wine is referring to fruit juice. then why is it that the juice are made only from grape that is used in making "alcoholic wine" not any other fruits like orange or pineapple?

whirlwind7:
Thank you for this piece of watery answer.
Did you see the contradiction in it compared with what you said at the beginning of your epistle? Let me quote you:

"Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it"

How do you prepare alcohol as offering to God, when God himself forbids you not to go near alcohol? Does this make any sense to you?
Admit to yourself that what God forbids, He won't ask you to PREPARE it, and then offer it to him. Alcohol doesn't flow naturally in streams or rivers. It doesn't fall from the skies like rain. It is produced by man.
Now, why would God ask man to ferment fruits and produce alcohol if it is forbidden by God?
See, I stopped listening to god of men long ago. The scripture has been subjected to much misinterpretations. Yours right here is one of them.

What God forbids, He won't ask you to produce it and offer it to Him!
Why didn't God tell man to offer the idols and graven images man made to God? He didn't because he forbids them. He clearly told man not to create or worship other gods.
If God allows man to ferment and produce alcohol, and then offer it to him in worship, what argument are you making here? In other words, you're trying to tell us God loves alcohol, but He doesn't want us to drink it?

Once you understand this very simple logic, then you will realize that all that lengthy sermon of yours doesn't wash.
See your comparison with women. God created women, and he clearly admonished us to get married if we can't keep from sexual sin (especially for priests).
God didn't create alcohol directly like He did women. Man did. Man discovered the process of producing alcohol. God saw it and didn't rebuke man. Rather, God accepted it as offering. Do you understand something simple and basic as that?

What is wrong with you?

Didn't I just showed you that "Look not at" means don't lust after it? Don't Christians see alcohol placed on shelves along the road? But looking at it then lusting and craving for it, such attitude is what the Bible warns against. You are making it sound as if the Bible says we should pluck out our eyes so as not to see alcohol.

Same way the Bible warns against looking at a woman with lust in our eyes is the same way we are not to look at alcohol.

alBHAGDADI:
The Bold part is where your problem lie, lazy reader. If you had read the entire write-up, you would have seen that the Bible speaks two kinds of wine: Fruit juice and alcoholic beverage.

Paul didn't advice Timothy to take alcohol. It was fruit juice he advised. Telling Timothy to take alcohol is the same as going against the Book of Proverbs 23:31 that says we shouldn't even look at alcoholic wine not to talk of drinking it, regardless of the amount.


Now, go back and read the OP again, Mr personal encounter with God who throws away the word of God just to operate based on his own conscience.

Read 1timothy 3:8 likewise must the Deacon be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; are you telling me Paul meant not given to much fruit juice here?

echibuogwu:
Shut up, even if it’s 0.0001%, it’s still an alcohol. What may be strong for you may not be strong for me. Stop spilling rubbish all in the name to cover ur foolishness, the Bible is just against drinking too much alcohol because of what it may do to you and how addictive it is, the Bible is also against eatin too much but it doesn’t mean it’s a sin. It’s just good morals.

Any food with sugar contains trace amount of alcohol. When alcohol is heightened, that's where the problem lies.

When we eat such food, we don't even have alcohol in mind. But when drink alcohol, you have it mind to do so.

alBHAGDADI:
So because Jews drink alcohol today, we are now to disobey the word of God? And who told you Jews I've God today?

So because there was no refrigerator back then, it now means they didn't see the need to invent fruit juice? Look, refrigerator was invented because people saw the need to preserve things, fruit juice being one of them. Mind you, if you had read the OP, you would have seen that fruit juice existed in the days of the early Jews as stated in Isaiah 65:8 and also Songs of Solomon 8:2. This is contrary to your Mr Historian knowledge.

You guys never cease to amaze me you hinge all you beliefs on the old covenants but yet you wont do d whole law deut 14 vs 26 nko abet no be dia una get the tithe teaching? So y now the booze aspect na other story. HYPOCRITE!!

Paul left instructions for being a deacon that he should not drink TOO MUCH wine. Oga wine back in d days had alcohol. Nothing like fruit wine. He told Timothy to use a little wine even till today a little alcohol can help your stomach upset. The point is drinking and not getting drunk. Even too much food is sin

Drinking alcohol is a sin.paul didn't tell Timothy to drink alcoholic wine.read the Bible with understanding.

oludavis123:
Read 1timothy 3:8 likewise must the Deacon be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; are you telling me Paul meant not given to much fruit juice here?

Stop quoting wrong translation. The Bible didn't say too much wine. It simply says not to drink wine.


1 Timothy 3:2-3 (KJV)
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;


Stay away from all these other Bible versions, they will lead you to hell. Stick with the King James Version. Read link below to see why.


https://www.nairaland.com/4957299/bible-sword-butter-knife-why

oludavis123:
Read 1timothy 3:8 likewise must the Deacon be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; are you telling me Paul meant not given to much fruit juice here?

Dont mind all this legalistic spiritual charlatans. They neither know God nor the scriptures. But are perverted like their spiritual criminal fathers. god of men. His here playing heavens gateman that how d other theif said if you dont pay tithe you wont make heaven.

I drink alcohol in moderation and never get drunk and yes I'm spirit filled. Atleast spirit filled enough to recognize wolves in sheep clothing

because it is written in the Bible that doesn't mean it is directly from God... you backed up your point with some Bible verses in which some of these passages are just different men of God expressing their different points of view and not directly from God

We are still saying the same thing. Alcohol becomes a problem when taking too much, stop confusing urself and misquoting the Bible.

alBHAGDADI:
Any food with sugar contains trace amount of alcohol. When alcohol is heightened, that's where the problem lies.

When we eat such food, we don't even have alcohol in mind. But when drink alcohol, you have it mind to do so.