Chosen1984:
Ok sir.... Rapture will Tell

Chosen1984:
Ok sir.... Rapture will Tell

alBHAGDADI:


Yes, I do. Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Italy that tell people to bow down to statue of Mary which is contrary to God's word?

Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Germany whom Martin Luther rose up against because they were teaching errors and satanic doctrines?

YES, I know more than them and it's all by God's grace.

alBHAGDADI:

Hello,

There's this wrong believe among Christians that the Bible supports drinking alcohol but only in moderation. They say we can drink alcohol but we shouldn't get drunk. Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it. Also, this thread will debunk common lies told to support drinking alcohol e.g Jesus turning water to wine.

The word wine is mentioned 231 times in the Bible. But the mistake we make today is that we think the wine mentioned is just alcholic wine. Half the time wine is mentioned in the Bible, it is about fruit juice.

In the Greek and Hebrew languages in which the Bible was written in, the word translated as wine was used to refer to alcohol and also fruit juice. So when those who translated the Bible into English did so, they had to look for an English word which could mean alcoholic beverage and fruit juice. That word is wine. You might wonder why the translators didn't make things easy for us by just writing fruit juice when the verse is talking of fruit juice and write alcoholic beverage when it's about alcohol. The thing is, doing such would mean they are injecting their own idea into the Bible.

Now, in modern times, we have this believe that wine means an alcoholic drinks. That's why we think the word wine in the Bible is always referring to alcohol. Let's me show you that wine in the Bible doesn't always mean alcoholic beverage but fruit juice.



As seen above, wine is found in the cluster i.e wine still in the cluster of grapes. This is purely fruit juice and not alcoholic.

However, grapes usually have a white powdery film around it called yeast. It is that yeast that is made use of to make alcoholic wine. They crush the grapes and in the process the yeast mixed with the fruit juice that was inside grape cluster. Next fermentation takes place then the result if alcoholic wine. Most times, wine makers add more yeast to attain the desired alcohol level. So you see, wine moved from normal fruit juice before it became alcoholic wine after yeast was added.

Now, there are two types of wine as explained above: The alcoholic and fruit juice. There's a certain type of wine the Bible said we shouldn't even look at, not to talk of touching our lips with it. Read the passage below.



The verse above is talking about alcoholic wine. It even describes fermentation process. It says we shouldn't even look at that type of wine. Yet some folks say we can drink it in moderation.



It describes the feeling one gets after drinking alcohol. It's a horrible feeling.



Have you ever had alcohol such that after taking it, women whom you would never touch with a ten foot poll suddenly start looking attractive to you? The above verse describes it as the effect of alcohol. It also describes how you start saying all sorts of junks which you would not normal say.



Remember when you lie down after taking alcohol and the whole bed seems like you are swimming, and also you feel like you are floating and your eyes being dizzy. That's the feeling described.



After the whole horrible night and you wake up to hangover, what's the cure drunkards usual prescribe? They say to cure hangover, start drinking again. That's what the above passage described.

Yet, some people say we can drink alcohol in moderation and that it only becomes a sin when we get drunk. Sorry buddy, the Bible says don't even look at it.

The Bible doesn't say we should drink alcohol in moderation. It says we should be sober at all times (1 Thessalonians 5:6 Titus 2:3).

Now let's see the common verses people love to twist to try to say we can drink alcohol

The first is found in the passage where Jesus turned water into wine. They fail to realize that it was fruit juice kind of wine, not the alcoholic or fermented one. Let's examine the passage carefully.



According to some people, it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into and gave the people at the wedding to drink. However, a closer look shows that not to be the case.

Pay close attention to verse 10 where the Bible says when men have well drunk. Let's see how the New International Version (NIV) renders that verse.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into, then it basically means he wanted to destroy the guests at the wedding. After they have had too much to drink, Jesus decided to give them more. That means if there were cars back then, many would have accidentally on their way home. Remember the passage in Proverbs 23 which talks about the horrible effects alcohol. If we say these people were already drunk on alcohol, then Jesus just helped them double those effect in their life by giving them more. This means they would start to behold strange women and say perverse things. Now, tell me, who would want to listen to Jesus preach the next morning after the "alcoholic wine" he gave them to drink made some of the men to sleep with their housemaid to the anger of their wives? Made them to saw perverse things to their boss? Made them to sleep in the gutter? Yet you say Jesus gave people alcohol to drink.

Jesus didn't give anybody alcohol to drink. Doing so would mean he's a liar. Remember what he said in the passage below.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into at the wedding in Cana, then he abolished the law and the prophet which spoke against alcoholic wine in Proverbs 23:31. So clearly it wasn't alcoholic wine he turned water into but fruit juice.

Another passage people love to use for an excuse to drink alcohol is seen below.

Mathew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The above passage talks about a false accusations against Jesus who pointed out how they also falsely accused John the Baptist. Yet, some people will say because Jesus was accused of being a drunkard then it means he use to drink alcohol. Was John the Baptist possessed with a devil? No, but he was accused of such. I now wonder why you believe Jesus drank alcohol due to some false accusations. Remember, the accusation is that he was a drunkard. So if you use this verse to justify drinking alcohol, then don't get angry when some tells you that Jesus use to fall into gutter after getting drunk; he use to behold strange women and say perverse things. Can you see how wrong they are with their interpretation of the passage?

Another verse they use is seen below.




They pick the verse out context and say God is telling us that we can buy alcohol and drink it. If you read the previous verses, you will see that the context is about tithing. Those items listed alongside strong drink are to be brought to the temple for sacrifice to God. Some are eating, but it excludes the strong drink because nowhere in the above passage does it say drink the strong drink, same way it doesn't say drink the oil. Now, see what the strong drink is used for.



The strong drink or wine is poured out onto the Lord for a drink offering. It is not to be drank at all. But people have twisted the verse in Deutoronomy 14:26 to mean God is saying we can drink alcohol even when he said in Proverbs 23 that we shouldn't even look at it.

Guys, drinking alcohol is a sin and every Christian should abstain from it. Don't let anybody fool you into think moderation is the key. A little sip sends your good sense of judgment out the window. That's when another glass or bottle won't seem like a bad idea. And note, wine has tripple alcohol content that four bottles of beer. So don't think drinking a glass of wine is sophisticated. You are emore alcoholic than the beer drinker.
It's okay if some people aspire to be holier than God Himself. Good luck to them; but they should endeavour to stop these false exegesis and eisegesis of scripture.
In 1Tim.5:23; St. Paul clearly instructed Timothy to stop drinking only water, but to take a little wine for his abdominal ailment. This prescription was given specifically for the alcoholic content in the wine to serve as an antibiotic against infections. Wonder why the poster did not discuss and try to twist this particular scripture.
In 1Cor.11;20-21; while St Paul was chiding the assembly concerning disorderliness at The Lord's table, he rebuked their impatience to wait for everyone to arrive before eating; whereby some over eat, while some go hungry, and in addition some even get[b] drunk.[/b]
Note that there was no rebuke about what they drank, but about impatience in waiting for others.
Now my question for the poster is; What did the faithfuls usually drink and got drunk on, was it fresh grape juice or ribena?

alBHAGDADI:

Hello,

There's this wrong believe among Christians that the Bible supports drinking alcohol but only in moderation. They say we can drink alcohol but we shouldn't get drunk. Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it. Also, this thread will debunk common lies told to support drinking alcohol e.g Jesus turning water to wine.

The word wine is mentioned 231 times in the Bible. But the mistake we make today is that we think the wine mentioned is just alcholic wine. Half the time wine is mentioned in the Bible, it is about fruit juice.

In the Greek and Hebrew languages in which the Bible was written in, the word translated as wine was used to refer to alcohol and also fruit juice. So when those who translated the Bible into English did so, they had to look for an English word which could mean alcoholic beverage and fruit juice. That word is wine. You might wonder why the translators didn't make things easy for us by just writing fruit juice when the verse is talking of fruit juice and write alcoholic beverage when it's about alcohol. The thing is, doing such would mean they are injecting their own idea into the Bible.

Now, in modern times, we have this believe that wine means an alcoholic drinks. That's why we think the word wine in the Bible is always referring to alcohol. Let's me show you that wine in the Bible doesn't always mean alcoholic beverage but fruit juice.



As seen above, wine is found in the cluster i.e wine still in the cluster of grapes. This is purely fruit juice and not alcoholic.

However, grapes usually have a white powdery film around it called yeast. It is that yeast that is made use of to make alcoholic wine. They crush the grapes and in the process the yeast mixed with the fruit juice that was inside grape cluster. Next fermentation takes place then the result if alcoholic wine. Most times, wine makers add more yeast to attain the desired alcohol level. So you see, wine moved from normal fruit juice before it became alcoholic wine after yeast was added.

Now, there are two types of wine as explained above: The alcoholic and fruit juice. There's a certain type of wine the Bible said we shouldn't even look at, not to talk of touching our lips with it. Read the passage below.



The verse above is talking about alcoholic wine. It even describes fermentation process. It says we shouldn't even look at that type of wine. Yet some folks say we can drink it in moderation.



It describes the feeling one gets after drinking alcohol. It's a horrible feeling.



Have you ever had alcohol such that after taking it, women whom you would never touch with a ten foot poll suddenly start looking attractive to you? The above verse describes it as the effect of alcohol. It also describes how you start saying all sorts of junks which you would not normal say.



Remember when you lie down after taking alcohol and the whole bed seems like you are swimming, and also you feel like you are floating and your eyes being dizzy. That's the feeling described.



After the whole horrible night and you wake up to hangover, what's the cure drunkards usual prescribe? They say to cure hangover, start drinking again. That's what the above passage described.

Yet, some people say we can drink alcohol in moderation and that it only becomes a sin when we get drunk. Sorry buddy, the Bible says don't even look at it.

The Bible doesn't say we should drink alcohol in moderation. It says we should be sober at all times (1 Thessalonians 5:6 Titus 2:3).

Now let's see the common verses people love to twist to try to say we can drink alcohol

The first is found in the passage where Jesus turned water into wine. They fail to realize that it was fruit juice kind of wine, not the alcoholic or fermented one. Let's examine the passage carefully.



According to some people, it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into and gave the people at the wedding to drink. However, a closer look shows that not to be the case.

Pay close attention to verse 10 where the Bible says when men have well drunk. Let's see how the New International Version (NIV) renders that verse.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into, then it basically means he wanted to destroy the guests at the wedding. After they have had too much to drink, Jesus decided to give them more. That means if there were cars back then, many would have accidentally on their way home. Remember the passage in Proverbs 23 which talks about the horrible effects alcohol. If we say these people were already drunk on alcohol, then Jesus just helped them double those effect in their life by giving them more. This means they would start to behold strange women and say perverse things. Now, tell me, who would want to listen to Jesus preach the next morning after the "alcoholic wine" he gave them to drink made some of the men to sleep with their housemaid to the anger of their wives? Made them to saw perverse things to their boss? Made them to sleep in the gutter? Yet you say Jesus gave people alcohol to drink.

Jesus didn't give anybody alcohol to drink. Doing so would mean he's a liar. Remember what he said in the passage below.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into at the wedding in Cana, then he abolished the law and the prophet which spoke against alcoholic wine in Proverbs 23:31. So clearly it wasn't alcoholic wine he turned water into but fruit juice.

Another passage people love to use for an excuse to drink alcohol is seen below.

Mathew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The above passage talks about a false accusations against Jesus who pointed out how they also falsely accused John the Baptist. Yet, some people will say because Jesus was accused of being a drunkard then it means he use to drink alcohol. Was John the Baptist possessed with a devil? No, but he was accused of such. I now wonder why you believe Jesus drank alcohol due to some false accusations. Remember, the accusation is that he was a drunkard. So if you use this verse to justify drinking alcohol, then don't get angry when some tells you that Jesus use to fall into gutter after getting drunk; he use to behold strange women and say perverse things. Can you see how wrong they are with their interpretation of the passage?

Another verse they use is seen below.




They pick the verse out context and say God is telling us that we can buy alcohol and drink it. If you read the previous verses, you will see that the context is about tithing. Those items listed alongside strong drink are to be brought to the temple for sacrifice to God. Some are eating, but it excludes the strong drink because nowhere in the above passage does it say drink the strong drink, same way it doesn't say drink the oil. Now, see what the strong drink is used for.



The strong drink or wine is poured out onto the Lord for a drink offering. It is not to be drank at all. But people have twisted the verse in Deutoronomy 14:26 to mean God is saying we can drink alcohol even when he said in Proverbs 23 that we shouldn't even look at it.

Guys, drinking alcohol is a sin and every Christian should abstain from it. Don't let anybody fool you into think moderation is the key. A little sip sends your good sense of judgment out the window. That's when another glass or bottle won't seem like a bad idea. And note, wine has tripple alcohol content that four bottles of beer. So don't think drinking a glass of wine is sophisticated. You are emore alcoholic than the beer drinker.

alBHAGDADI:


The Bold part is where your problem lie, lazy reader. If you had read the entire write-up, you would have seen that the Bible speaks two kinds of wine: Fruit juice and alcoholic beverage.

Paul didn't advice Timothy to take alcohol. It was fruit juice he advised. Telling Timothy to take alcohol is the same as going against the Book of Proverbs 23:31 that says we shouldn't even look at alcoholic wine not to talk of drinking it, regardless of the amount.


Now, go back and read the OP again, Mr personal encounter with God who throws away the word of God just to operate based on his own conscience.

Frankled:
We understand you're trying to preach the Word. Almost everyone here are Christians just like you.
But the topic you bring is unnecessary if your intentions and discipline is on check.
Have you ever read "lev 10:9". It says;
You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the tent of meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come.
This was God talking to priests not even the congregation. And this means that he said they should drink but not to drink when they go into the tent of meeting in order to really teach and direct people on what is good.
Sometimes wen you are in Christ you don't even force it but to drop some normal behavior which is not sin, everybody's purpose is not the same. Just like paul said that he would prefered for you not to get married at all so that you will fully consentrate on God but if you think you cant, you should marry.
In all thy getting, get Wisdom

Adegbem01:

When it comes to religion and faith, we need to have personal encounter with God and not the "words" only, in order to see "LIFE" in the proper perspective... I don't drink or am I planning to start drinking, but all your qouted verses and explanations are mostly weak arguments, twisted and taking out of context. Faith, Bible and Christianity are more than logic and you trying to prove something this ways give people more reason to believe it is right to "drink". There are many point in your long epistle that when Table logically will work against your point. Let people know the facts, the disadvantages, moral consequence and addiction susceptibility, irresponsibility it's could implies and sorts. Don't twist things to force conviction through people's throats just because you are sure it wrong.

alBHAGDADI:


So because Jews drink alcohol today, we are now to disobey the word of God? And who told you Jews I've God today?

So because there was no refrigerator back then, it now means they didn't see the need to invent fruit juice? Look, refrigerator was invented because people saw the need to preserve things, fruit juice being one of them. Mind you, if you had read the OP, you would have seen that fruit juice existed in the days of the early Jews as stated in Isaiah 65:8 and also Songs of Solomon 8:2. This is contrary to your Mr Historian knowledge.

mastermaestro:


What makes you believe that a rascally and hedonistic generation will hear you? As a mature Christian, there are things you don't discuss with blind pagans, and babyish church goers.
Alcohol is a sin. Those who want to argue should take it else where. Only a person who is not filled with the HOLY GHOST needs to be told this. Sadly, many believers in today's church are empty vessels seeking fun and party music in Christian gatherings.

alBHAGDADI:


Yes, I do. Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Italy that tell people to bow down to statue of Mary which is contrary to God's word?

Or are you not talking about the same bishops in Germany whom Martin Luther rose up against because they were teaching errors and satanic doctrines?

YES, I know more than them and it's all by God's grace.

alBHAGDADI:


The Bold part is where your problem lie, lazy reader. If you had read the entire write-up, you would have seen that the Bible speaks two kinds of wine: Fruit juice and alcoholic beverage.

Paul didn't advice Timothy to take alcohol. It was fruit juice he advised. Telling Timothy to take alcohol is the same as going against the Book of Proverbs 23:31 that says we shouldn't even look at alcoholic wine not to talk of drinking it, regardless of the amount.


Now, go back and read the OP again, Mr personal encounter with God who throws away the word of God just to operate based on his own conscience.

alBHAGDADI:


It's either you shut up or you prove how wrong the OP is.

alBHAGDADI:


I'm glad someone agrees with me. They are lost and have chosen to be lost. That's why I have been hard on them with harsh words just as Jesus was hard on the Jews who rejected him.

The thread was for my fellow Christians, not fakers.

alBHAGDADI:


Yes, smoke weed then step it down with snake venom because God created both.

alBHAGDADI:


You just shared the first picture below which is from the satanic Daddy Freeze. Well, the Catholic pope and Bishop seen in it are the same men who go against the word of God by making idols and bowing down to it, even telling people to do the same. Yet, you believe they are right when they tell you that alcohol is good to be drunk.

Leviticus 26:1
'You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the LORD your God

TVSA:


The guy is only grasping at straws. Anything just to make him win the argument.

Makuos19:
NOW THIS IS THE WHOLE TRUTH... NO MORE ARGUMENT!!!


‎SHOULD WE DRINK?



A man asked me the following question who lives in Africa.



1 Timothy 3:8-13 says that the deacons are not to be given to much wine, does this mean that they can drink little wine without getting drunk, or are they not permitted to drink alcohol at all?



The first thing we must realize is that the meanings of words change through out time. When we think of wine, we think of an intoxicating drink. If you look up wine in a modern day dictionary it will define it as a fermented drink. But, the further you go back in time you will find that the word wine was defined as having two meaning.



1. It was simply fruit of the grape.

2. It was intoxicating.



In the Bible, the Greek Word for wine (oinos) simply means fruit of the vine and has a dual meaning. It could mean grape juice or intoxicating wine. The same thing is true for the word wine in the Hebrew language. Most of the time, we can determine from the context of the verse if the wine being spoken of is mere grape juice or intoxicating wine. A NT example of wine not being intoxicating is found in:



Matthew 9:17 "Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."



New wine is freshly squeezed grape juice.



An OT example that clearly shows the wine being fermented comes from:



Genesis 9:21 Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.



Then we have some verses where you cannot tell whether it is referring to fermented or unfermented such as:



1 Timothy 5:23 No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities.



There is no way of knowing from this context if he was referring to intoxicating or non-intoxication wine because grape juice fermented or unfermented is good for the stomach.



Atheneaus, the Grammarian (200AD) in his book the Banquet recommends for the dyspeptic (someone with digestive problems) “let him take sweet wine, either mixed with water or warmed.. As being good for the stomach, for sweet wine does not make the head heavy”. Notice this was a wine that did not make one heavy headed but was good for the stomach. Welchs also has a pamphlet out that tell how grape juice is good for ailments and one of those listed is stomach problems. Even if Paul was referring to intoxicating wine you will notice that he recommended a little for medicinal purposes. This principle would apply to some of the prescription drugs we take, which can be abused, but taken in the right amount helps our ailments. Medicine like Nyquil has some alcohol in it and it certainly would not be wrong to use this medicine for medicinal purposes.



From our verse (1 Tim. 5:23), it is implied that as Timothy was out setting a good example for those around him that he abstained from any form of wine so that no one could accuse him of being drunk or getting drunk.



As we think about what Paul told the deacons in 1 Tim. 3:8, we must consider what his words would have meant to those in the first century. When we fail to do that and we apply the meaning of words as we use them today, and we look at thing through 21 century eyes it can cause us to arrive at the wrong conclusion.



As I already pointed out the word wine can mean intoxicating or non-intoxicating. Wine was a common drink in the Ancient World. Some have a false idea that they did not have a way to keep their wine from fermenting, but that is not true.



Some of them used filters that would keep the wine from fermenting very much. As the early writer Pliny said:



“Wines are most beneficial when all their potency has been overcome by the strainer.”



They could also boil the grapes, which would remove any chance of fermentation. This was probably one the best methods they used during the first century times.



One more method they used was by keeping the juice cooled below 40 degrees by storing the juice in cool water. This would also keep air from getting to the juice, which also plays its part in fermentation. Again Pliny said:



“As soon as the must is taken from the vat and put into casks, they plunge the cask in water till midwinter passes and regular cold whether sets in.”



While they did have several ways to preserve the grape juice from becoming intoxicating some of it was fermented, but nothing to the degree of what we have today. On top of the wine being lightly fermented, they also diluted the wine with water during that time.



R.L. Harris wrote:



“All the wine was light wine, i.e. not fortified with extra alcohol. Concentrated alcohol was only known in the Middle Ages when the Arabs invented distillation (‘alcohol’ is an Arabic word) so what is not called liquor or strong drink (i.e., whiskey, gin, etc.) and the twenty percent fortified wines were unknown in Bible times.”



He also says:



“The strength of the natural wines is limited by two factors. The percentage of alcohol will be half of the percentage of the sugar is the juice. And if alcoholic content is much above 10 or 11 percent, the yeast cells are killed and the fermentation ceases. Probably ancient wines were 7 to 10 percent … To avoid the sin of drunkenness, mingling of wine with water was practiced. The dilution was specified by the Rabbis in the N.T. times for the wine then customary at Passover.”



Plato wrote:



“Wine was always drunk diluted, and to drink it unmixed was looked on as

barbarism” (Living Soberly, Righteously And Godly p. 20).



Other sources suggest that they would mix six part water with one part wine.



One would have to consume large quantities of watered down wine in order to start becoming intoxicating. So, Paul is not in anyway teaching us that social drinking is acceptable, but this was simply a warning to the deacons to not drink much wine or make it a habit because it could cause them to lose their senses if it was fermented. I want to make it clear this decree was not saying it is ok to drink intoxicating drink as long as you do not get drunk, it was a decree to not have them even drink much fresh grape juice just in case it might be fermented and they not know it. Christian today should not even touch the stuff because nothing ever good comes from it.



John Waddy writes:



“Few things have wreaked as much havoc on personal lives, families, and society as has the beverage alcohol. 39 % of all traffic fatalities involve drinking drivers (over 25,000 annually). Over 50 % of criminal activity involves the use of alcohol. Most domestic violence involves alcohol. 25 % of all divorces can be blamed on alcohol. Add to the above the ravaged lives of those who become addicted to alcohol and you begin to see the destructive nature of this product. ‘Alcohol constitutes the country’s greatest mental health problems. It accounts for about 25 % of the patients in mental hospitals’ (Dr. Karl Menninger).”



Before a deacon or anyone chooses to take one sip of alcohol for social reasons when they have other things they could drink, they should consider what the rest of the Bible says about drinking fermented wine, which would include any intoxicating drink,



Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.



Proverbs 23:20 Do not mix with winebibbers,



Proverbs 23:29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? 30 Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine. 31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things. 34 Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying: 35 "They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?"



Isaiah 5:11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning, That they may follow intoxicating drink; Who continue until night, till wine inflames them!



Isaiah 5:22 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,



Habakkuk 2:15 " Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his unclothedness!



Ephesians 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,



This literally means “do not become drunk” in other words do not even start the process of becoming intoxicated by taking the first sip.



1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.



Sober can mean: “to drink no wine” (LSJ) and it can mean: “Being free from every form of mental and spiritual excess and confusion be self-controlled, be clear-headed, be self-possessed.” No one can be sober in their mind with intoxicating drink in them. The more intoxicated one becomes the less sober minded they become.



1 Peter 4:3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles -- when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.



Notice we are not to be part of drinking parties, which again rules out social drinking. We must also consider the influence we are being on others:



Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.



Some will also use this verse to say, “yes, you should not drink alcohol around the spiritual weak, but there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol around those who are not spiritual weak or by yourself.



Regarding this thought please consider what Robert Taylor say about this:



"Proponents of the acceptability of so-called social or moderate imbibing of alcoholic beverages (in reality nothing is more anti-social and moderation may only be used properly to refer to what is right in and of itself and drinking to ANY degree, is wrong per se) like to OVERPARK at this verse. They smugly and sneeringly contend that social drinking is simply an indifferent matter and is neither right nor wrong as long as other people are not harmed by their practices. However, alcoholic beverages do not fit matters of indifference. They are wrong per se -- in large amounts, in controlled amounts, in minute amounts ... Passages in the New Testament, other than Rom. 14:21, which prohibit alcoholic consumption as a beverage, are 1 Thess. 5:22; 1 Peter 2:11; 4:3, 4. Some might be quick to say, "But Peter said, `excess of wine' and social drinking is not excess!" Peter also said, "excess of riot." Would moderate rioting be all right? Would just a little rioting be all right? Would moderate rioting be acceptable to society? Brother J. D. Tant, colorful preacher of the past, was once asked if he thought it all right to drink a little. He answered that he thought such was all right. But he was quick to say that he thought a little adultery, a little lying, a little murdering, a little stealing, etc., would be all right also. He reduced the matter to total absurdity. He knew a little drinking was wrong."



"Meats and wine are obviously in the same category here. Meats are indifferent; wine is indifferent. But the wine could not be a matter of indifference if alcoholic in content. Therefore it must be unfermented wine about which the apostle made allusion here -- not the hard stuff that turns men into monsters and women into harlots."



Roy C. Deaver made the following observations on this verse:



"I do not accept the view (and I do reject the view) that the word "wine" in this passage refers to intoxicants, and that Paul therefore classes the drinking of intoxicants within the realm of indifference. The word "wine" here is used with the word "meats" (flesh) and must refer to something which stands before God as meat stands. I cannot accept the notion that inspiration would categorize intoxicants with meats. Further, the word "wine" ([@oinos]) does not necessarily mean intoxicant. It may refer to the juice freshly squeezed from the grapes. It may refer to the juice of the grape while it is still in the grape. This is the word used in John 2, and I do not believe for a moment that the Lord made something intoxicating… Millions of broken homes, destitute children, murders on highways, cases of loss of influence for good, and countless other tragedies all declare that the drinking of intoxicants is not a matter of indifference. A Christian will have nothing to do with drinking intoxicants. Cf. 1 Pet. 2:11."



We are also taught to stay away from fleshly lust that war against the soul:



1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,



One who begins to drink alcohol begins to numb their senses and it makes indulging in fleshly lust much easier.



“The higher qualities of the mind are the very first to be rubbed out by alcohol. The delicate capacities of intellectual decisions and choice and discretion and willpower are those faculties which are first dulled and then wiped out by alcohol …” (The Problem: Alcohol-Narcotics, p. 14).



John Waddy writes:



“While I have never known a Christian who made better by drinking, I have known several who have lost their good influence and interest in heavenly things because of alcohol. Christian who do not drink socially never have to apologize for doing so. I have never met a person who regretted not using the beverage alcohol but I have met many who rued the day they took their first drink. About 10 % of those who start drinking become problem drinkers. Most Christians live lives of total abstinence. There example I heartily recommend to you.”



As John said, nothing good comes from drinking alcohol and there is no good reason for us to do so today. So, let us not use passages such as 1 Tim. 3:8 to justify social drinking. Instead, let us view the meaning of that passage through 1st century eyes and see it as warning to them to abstain from much wine so they would not even start becoming intoxicated. There is simply no comparison to the strength of the wine they had back then compared to the strength of our alcoholic beverages today. We need to recognize the evil that alcohol can cause and stay far away from it. As Paul said:



1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.



I would like to close this lesson with these final remarks from Dub McClish:



The justification for "social drinking" that many brethren (even elders and preachers) seek on the basis of this qualification for deacons is non-existent. Who is going to decide how "much" it takes to equal "much wine'? The drinker himself cannot do so, for by the second or third drink his judgment is impaired by alcohol.



If "not given to much wine" means that it is all right to drink moderately, consistency would demand that "Be not over much wicked" (Eccl. 7:17) grants permission to be somewhat wicked. Likewise, when Paul ordered, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body" (Rom. 6:12), one may as well argue he was actually giving license to sin as long as one does not completely yield to it. Would it be all right to steal or commit fornication "moderately" as long as one did not become addicted to those practices? Such is the "reasoning" of those who would defend drinking in any amount from I Timothy 3:8.

Further, if this passage authorizes "moderate" drinking (I deny that there is such a thing), it does not merely justify moderate consumption, but moderate addiction! Notice: If "not given (addicted) to much wine" means that one can drink some, it also means that one can be addicted to some wine. This obviously proves too much and therefore proves nothing.



Any interpretation of this passage which makes it contradict many Scriptures that elsewhere condemn strong drink (Prov. 20:1), those who drink it (I Pet. 4:3), and those who encourage others to drink it (Hab. 2:15-16) is obviously a false interpretation. There is no Scriptural authorization here for consumption of any amount of alcohol as a beverage for a deacon or any other Christian.

Nukilia:
You now know more than the bishops in Germany and Italy . Africans I salute you

alBHAGDADI:

Hello,

There's this wrong believe among Christians that the Bible supports drinking alcohol but only in moderation. They say we can drink alcohol but we shouldn't get drunk. Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it. Also, this thread will debunk common lies told to support drinking alcohol e.g Jesus turning water to wine.

The word wine is mentioned 231 times in the Bible. But the mistake we make today is that we think the wine mentioned is just alcholic wine. Half the time wine is mentioned in the Bible, it is about fruit juice.

In the Greek and Hebrew languages in which the Bible was written in, the word translated as wine was used to refer to alcohol and also fruit juice. So when those who translated the Bible into English did so, they had to look for an English word which could mean alcoholic beverage and fruit juice. That word is wine. You might wonder why the translators didn't make things easy for us by just writing fruit juice when the verse is talking of fruit juice and write alcoholic beverage when it's about alcohol. The thing is, doing such would mean they are injecting their own idea into the Bible.

Now, in modern times, we have this believe that wine means an alcoholic drinks. That's why we think the word wine in the Bible is always referring to alcohol. Let's me show you that wine in the Bible doesn't always mean alcoholic beverage but fruit juice.



As seen above, wine is found in the cluster i.e wine still in the cluster of grapes. This is purely fruit juice and not alcoholic.

However, grapes usually have a white powdery film around it called yeast. It is that yeast that is made use of to make alcoholic wine. They crush the grapes and in the process the yeast mixed with the fruit juice that was inside grape cluster. Next fermentation takes place then the result if alcoholic wine. Most times, wine makers add more yeast to attain the desired alcohol level. So you see, wine moved from normal fruit juice before it became alcoholic wine after yeast was added.

Now, there are two types of wine as explained above: The alcoholic and fruit juice. There's a certain type of wine the Bible said we shouldn't even look at, not to talk of touching our lips with it. Read the passage below.



The verse above is talking about alcoholic wine. It even describes fermentation process. It says we shouldn't even look at that type of wine. Yet some folks say we can drink it in moderation.



It describes the feeling one gets after drinking alcohol. It's a horrible feeling.



Have you ever had alcohol such that after taking it, women whom you would never touch with a ten foot poll suddenly start looking attractive to you? The above verse describes it as the effect of alcohol. It also describes how you start saying all sorts of junks which you would not normal say.



Remember when you lie down after taking alcohol and the whole bed seems like you are swimming, and also you feel like you are floating and your eyes being dizzy. That's the feeling described.



After the whole horrible night and you wake up to hangover, what's the cure drunkards usual prescribe? They say to cure hangover, start drinking again. That's what the above passage described.

Yet, some people say we can drink alcohol in moderation and that it only becomes a sin when we get drunk. Sorry buddy, the Bible says don't even look at it.

The Bible doesn't say we should drink alcohol in moderation. It says we should be sober at all times (1 Thessalonians 5:6 Titus 2:3).

Now let's see the common verses people love to twist to try to say we can drink alcohol

The first is found in the passage where Jesus turned water into wine. They fail to realize that it was fruit juice kind of wine, not the alcoholic or fermented one. Let's examine the passage carefully.



According to some people, it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into and gave the people at the wedding to drink. However, a closer look shows that not to be the case.

Pay close attention to verse 10 where the Bible says when men have well drunk. Let's see how the New International Version (NIV) renders that verse.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into, then it basically means he wanted to destroy the guests at the wedding. After they have had too much to drink, Jesus decided to give them more. That means if there were cars back then, many would have accidentally on their way home. Remember the passage in Proverbs 23 which talks about the horrible effects alcohol. If we say these people were already drunk on alcohol, then Jesus just helped them double those effect in their life by giving them more. This means they would start to behold strange women and say perverse things. Now, tell me, who would want to listen to Jesus preach the next morning after the "alcoholic wine" he gave them to drink made some of the men to sleep with their housemaid to the anger of their wives? Made them to saw perverse things to their boss? Made them to sleep in the gutter? Yet you say Jesus gave people alcohol to drink.

Jesus didn't give anybody alcohol to drink. Doing so would mean he's a liar. Remember what he said in the passage below.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into at the wedding in Cana, then he abolished the law and the prophet which spoke against alcoholic wine in Proverbs 23:31. So clearly it wasn't alcoholic wine he turned water into but fruit juice.

Another passage people love to use for an excuse to drink alcohol is seen below.

Mathew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The above passage talks about a false accusations against Jesus who pointed out how they also falsely accused John the Baptist. Yet, some people will say because Jesus was accused of being a drunkard then it means he use to drink alcohol. Was John the Baptist possessed with a devil? No, but he was accused of such. I now wonder why you believe Jesus drank alcohol due to some false accusations. Remember, the accusation is that he was a drunkard. So if you use this verse to justify drinking alcohol, then don't get angry when some tells you that Jesus use to fall into gutter after getting drunk; he use to behold strange women and say perverse things. Can you see how wrong they are with their interpretation of the passage?

Another verse they use is seen below.




They pick the verse out context and say God is telling us that we can buy alcohol and drink it. If you read the previous verses, you will see that the context is about tithing. Those items listed alongside strong drink are to be brought to the temple for sacrifice to God. Some are eating, but it excludes the strong drink because nowhere in the above passage does it say drink the strong drink, same way it doesn't say drink the oil. Now, see what the strong drink is used for.



The strong drink or wine is poured out onto the Lord for a drink offering. It is not to be drank at all. But people have twisted the verse in Deutoronomy 14:26 to mean God is saying we can drink alcohol even when he said in Proverbs 23 that we shouldn't even look at it.

Guys, drinking alcohol is a sin and every Christian should abstain from it. Don't let anybody fool you into think moderation is the key. A little sip sends your good sense of judgment out the window. That's when another glass or bottle won't seem like a bad idea. And note, wine has tripple alcohol content that four bottles of beer. So don't think drinking a glass of wine is sophisticated. You are emore alcoholic than the beer drinker.

BabaIbo:


I dey tell you...

I think you're the one that made the Greek translation, right?

The best way to understand the meaning of something is to translate it in the original language (i.e the language in which it was coined)

TVSA:

yes

alBHAGDADI:

Hello,

There's this wrong believe among Christians that the Bible supports drinking alcohol but only in moderation. They say we can drink alcohol but we shouldn't get drunk. Well, I will be using Bible verses to show that Christians are not to look at alcohol not to talk of drinking it. Also, this thread will debunk common lies told to support drinking alcohol e.g Jesus turning water to wine.

The word wine is mentioned 231 times in the Bible. But the mistake we make today is that we think the wine mentioned is just alcholic wine. Half the time wine is mentioned in the Bible, it is about fruit juice.

In the Greek and Hebrew languages in which the Bible was written in, the word translated as wine was used to refer to alcohol and also fruit juice. So when those who translated the Bible into English did so, they had to look for an English word which could mean alcoholic beverage and fruit juice. That word is wine. You might wonder why the translators didn't make things easy for us by just writing fruit juice when the verse is talking of fruit juice and write alcoholic beverage when it's about alcohol. The thing is, doing such would mean they are injecting their own idea into the Bible.

Now, in modern times, we have this believe that wine means an alcoholic drinks. That's why we think the word wine in the Bible is always referring to alcohol. Let's me show you that wine in the Bible doesn't always mean alcoholic beverage but fruit juice.



As seen above, wine is found in the cluster i.e wine still in the cluster of grapes. This is purely fruit juice and not alcoholic.

However, grapes usually have a white powdery film around it called yeast. It is that yeast that is made use of to make alcoholic wine. They crush the grapes and in the process the yeast mixed with the fruit juice that was inside grape cluster. Next fermentation takes place then the result if alcoholic wine. Most times, wine makers add more yeast to attain the desired alcohol level. So you see, wine moved from normal fruit juice before it became alcoholic wine after yeast was added.

Now, there are two types of wine as explained above: The alcoholic and fruit juice. There's a certain type of wine the Bible said we shouldn't even look at, not to talk of touching our lips with it. Read the passage below.



The verse above is talking about alcoholic wine. It even describes fermentation process. It says we shouldn't even look at that type of wine. Yet some folks say we can drink it in moderation.



It describes the feeling one gets after drinking alcohol. It's a horrible feeling.



Have you ever had alcohol such that after taking it, women whom you would never touch with a ten foot poll suddenly start looking attractive to you? The above verse describes it as the effect of alcohol. It also describes how you start saying all sorts of junks which you would not normal say.



Remember when you lie down after taking alcohol and the whole bed seems like you are swimming, and also you feel like you are floating and your eyes being dizzy. That's the feeling described.



After the whole horrible night and you wake up to hangover, what's the cure drunkards usual prescribe? They say to cure hangover, start drinking again. That's what the above passage described.

Yet, some people say we can drink alcohol in moderation and that it only becomes a sin when we get drunk. Sorry buddy, the Bible says don't even look at it.

The Bible doesn't say we should drink alcohol in moderation. It says we should be sober at all times (1 Thessalonians 5:6 Titus 2:3).

Now let's see the common verses people love to twist to try to say we can drink alcohol

The first is found in the passage where Jesus turned water into wine. They fail to realize that it was fruit juice kind of wine, not the alcoholic or fermented one. Let's examine the passage carefully.



According to some people, it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into and gave the people at the wedding to drink. However, a closer look shows that not to be the case.

Pay close attention to verse 10 where the Bible says when men have well drunk. Let's see how the New International Version (NIV) renders that verse.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into, then it basically means he wanted to destroy the guests at the wedding. After they have had too much to drink, Jesus decided to give them more. That means if there were cars back then, many would have accidentally on their way home. Remember the passage in Proverbs 23 which talks about the horrible effects alcohol. If we say these people were already drunk on alcohol, then Jesus just helped them double those effect in their life by giving them more. This means they would start to behold strange women and say perverse things. Now, tell me, who would want to listen to Jesus preach the next morning after the "alcoholic wine" he gave them to drink made some of the men to sleep with their housemaid to the anger of their wives? Made them to saw perverse things to their boss? Made them to sleep in the gutter? Yet you say Jesus gave people alcohol to drink.

Jesus didn't give anybody alcohol to drink. Doing so would mean he's a liar. Remember what he said in the passage below.



If it was alcoholic wine Jesus turned water into at the wedding in Cana, then he abolished the law and the prophet which spoke against alcoholic wine in Proverbs 23:31. So clearly it wasn't alcoholic wine he turned water into but fruit juice.

Another passage people love to use for an excuse to drink alcohol is seen below.

Mathew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The above passage talks about a false accusations against Jesus who pointed out how they also falsely accused John the Baptist. Yet, some people will say because Jesus was accused of being a drunkard then it means he use to drink alcohol. Was John the Baptist possessed with a devil? No, but he was accused of such. I now wonder why you believe Jesus drank alcohol due to some false accusations. Remember, the accusation is that he was a drunkard. So if you use this verse to justify drinking alcohol, then don't get angry when some tells you that Jesus use to fall into gutter after getting drunk; he use to behold strange women and say perverse things. Can you see how wrong they are with their interpretation of the passage?

Another verse they use is seen below.




They pick the verse out context and say God is telling us that we can buy alcohol and drink it. If you read the previous verses, you will see that the context is about tithing. Those items listed alongside strong drink are to be brought to the temple for sacrifice to God. Some are eating, but it excludes the strong drink because nowhere in the above passage does it say drink the strong drink, same way it doesn't say drink the oil. Now, see what the strong drink is used for.



The strong drink or wine is poured out onto the Lord for a drink offering. It is not to be drank at all. But people have twisted the verse in Deutoronomy 14:26 to mean God is saying we can drink alcohol even when he said in Proverbs 23 that we shouldn't even look at it.

Guys, drinking alcohol is a sin and every Christian should abstain from it. Don't let anybody fool you into think moderation is the key. A little sip sends your good sense of judgment out the window. That's when another glass or bottle won't seem like a bad idea. And note, wine has tripple alcohol content that four bottles of beer. So don't think drinking a glass of wine is sophisticated. You are emore alcoholic than the beer drinker.

TVSA:
John 2:10 KJV
And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

English is hard for some people. What made the men drunk? is it not the good wine they drank? Or you want to tell us the "drunk" isn't intoxication?

alBHAGDADI:


Weed was created by God, so go smoke it. Snake venom was created by God, so go allow a snake to bite you.

DeKen:


Indeed English is pretty hard. Past participle of drink is drunk. So it doesn't really mean being intoxicated.

However based on other portions of the bible l don't believe taking alcohol is sin even though I don't encourage taking strong drinks but that is mainly for medical reasons.

jojogirlx:
@OP ..I was skeptical to post something but honestly, my humble advice is that you always seek the spirit of God for better understanding when studying the scriptures.
And to enlighten you alittle." Wine" is defined as fermented drink which contains alcohol nd not fruit drink or juice.
And for the record if there was no alcohol, Eli would not hav accused Hannah of being drunk at Shiloh. Read 1 Sam 1: 12-15