TV01:
... However, again, I still don't have a sense of my questions being directly addressed.
As well as considering divine revelation claims at the level of canon, there is also a suggestion that the written canon is somehow distinct to the Holy Spirit?

2 Timothy 3:16- All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The Holy Spirit leads us primarily into the truth of the scripture He inspired. It's illumination of the scriptures unto a revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As I stated, individuals can adopt any position they feel led too - however or by whatever led. This does not answer how the body of Christ is supposed to verify and test claims.

There is clear scriptural direction and instruction, as well as structure and order - inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. Why would we not expect the Holy Spirit to provide illumination first via the scripture He breathed?

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit

How counter-intuitive is it to say we take all non-canonical revelations and then ask the Holy Spirit if they are true or not and, to do so as individuals, when the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures with clear guidance are with us. Is God the author of confusion or the kind disarray this will surely lead to?

I believe I have spoken to this repeatedly above

So God sends those He knows will teach error - so how do we know there is no error that has been canonised? Why can we not be told by some that parts of scripture are wrong, outdated or to be overturned, as indeed some do?

Still on the bolded, even the early church had its controversies, where one of the appointed deacons in Acts - Nicolas went on to propagate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which Jesus warned strongly against in Revelation 2. Guess what, in Acts 6 v 4-6: the early church chose Nicolas amongst the 7, and the Apostles laid hands and prayed on them (Nicolas inclusive). I have studied the Nicolaitian heresy, however, it does not speak to my posers - and how was the heresy forestalled?

First, the Spirit breathed scriptures are always the first and foremost standard for the body. Secondly, your stance on this thread has been anything but neutral, which is why I had questions for you, as you have been clear on your position, which is admirable.

As noted, I have. I does not teach that heresy is countered by individual recourse to the Holy Spirit

I have spoken to this

Then perhaps illumination is required. Contrast that scripture with this;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Firstly, the ultimate standard of the Spirit of God remains the scriptures He breathed, not individual claims of divine revelation. Especially for the body as a whole and moreso for matters wholly captured in scripture.

So, two people, who claim divine revelation, who your spirit bears witness to, make contradictory revelatory claims (revelations which you claim are essentially canonical) there is the possibility of error? Error which the Holy Spirit will clear up given time? if the contradictions are attested to by scripture?

Cheers
TV

You know you've "entered one chance" when again, you still don't have a sense of your questions being directly addressed

TV01:
Thanks again OKCornel. However, again, I still don't have a sense of my questions being directly addressed. As well as considering divine revelation claims at the level of canon, there is also a suggestion that the written canon is somehow distinct to the Holy Spirit?

I am afraid you are missing the point entirely here. Anyone can claim to have a divine revelation. Your responsibility as a believer is to cross-check with the Spirit of God for veracity or otherwise of such claims. The Spirit of God will lead you into ALL TRUTH (unless you are mistaking written truth for the complete truth)

TV01:

2 Timothy 3:16- All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The Holy Spirit leads us primarily into the truth of the scripture He inspired. It's illumination of the scriptures unto a revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That brings me to the question I asked you earlier. What is your understanding of the scripture?

Should the product be focused on at the expense of the source?

When the letter to Timothy was written... are you aware the book of Revelation was not yet in existence...and as such would not have formed part of the ALL SCRIPTURES in 2 Timothy 3 v 16?

I am also further pressed to ask, why didn't Jesus and the Apostles set a limit to the number of books in circulation to be noted as spirit inspired scriptures?

TV01:

As I stated, individuals can adopt any position they feel led too - however or by whatever led. This does not answer how the body of Christ is supposed to verify and test claims.

The main thing is, what is the Spirit of God telling you? Or are you of the opinion the Spirit of God can mislead people?

TV01:

There is clear scriptural direction and instruction, as well as structure and order - inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. Why would we not expect the Holy Spirit to provide illumination first via the scripture He breathed?

Again, what is your definition of the scriptures? 66 books?

TV01:

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit

How counter-intuitive is it to say we take all non-canonical revelations and then ask the Holy Spirit if they are true or not and, to do so as individuals, when the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures with clear guidance are with us. Is God the author of confusion or the kind disarray this will surely lead to?

Who defined and set a limit to what is the Holy Spirit inspired and canonized scriptures? was it God or some men?

TV01:

I believe I have spoken to this repeatedly above

So God sends those He knows will teach error - so how do we know there is no error that has been canonised? Why can we not be told by some that parts of scripture are wrong, outdated or to be overturned, as indeed some do?

The Holy Spirit that leads everyone into ALL TRUTH is the ultimate.

TV01:

Still on the bolded, even the early church had its controversies, where one of the appointed deacons in Acts - Nicolas went on to propagate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which Jesus warned strongly against in Revelation 2. Guess what, in Acts 6 v 4-6: the early church chose Nicolas amongst the 7, and the Apostles laid hands and prayed on them (Nicolas inclusive). I have studied the Nicolaitian heresy, however, it does not speak to my posers - and how was the heresy forestalled?

You earlier brought this up "Someone is divinely commissioned, given specific revelation and suddenly veers of course. Yet the One who commissioned such a one will allow them to continue to preach that which is false - wihtout correcting or replacing them - potentially harming individuals and the body as a whole, not to mention causing His holy name to be blasphemed?"

And I brought up Nicolas the deacon and originator of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans as example to answer you in that regard...so how does it not speak to your poser?

TV01:

First, the Spirit breathed scriptures are always the first and foremost standard for the body. Secondly, your stance on this thread has been anything but neutral, which is why I had questions for you, as you have been clear on your position, which is admirable.
As noted, I have. I does not teach that heresy is countered by individual recourse to the Holy Spirit

First, I need to be clear on what you refer to ask Spirit breathed scriptures...66 books?
Also, saying the Scriptures is the first and foremost standard is tantamount to exalting the product above the source. Without the Holy Spirit, there would be no scriptures in the first place. The ultimate standard remains the Holy Spirit, who is the source and guidance into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten)

TV01:

I have spoken to this

Then perhaps illumination is required. Contrast that scripture with this;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Sorry, how does this scripture relate to testing all Spirits as written by Apostle John?

TV01:

Firstly, the ultimate standard of the Spirit of God remains the scriptures He breathed, not individual claims of divine revelation. Especially for the body as a whole and moreso for matters wholly captured in scripture.

And again, you are elevating the product (scriptures) over and above the source ( Holy Spirit) as the ultimate standard. The Holy Spirit remains the ultimate standard that would guide all believers into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten). Unless you are implying ALL TRUTH is limited to 66 books.

Also, Apostle John's book of revelation was an individual claim of divine revelation so...I guess anyone who lived outside of Bible times but got a divine revelation from the Holy Spirit should be totally discarded right?

TV01:

So, two people, who claim divine revelation, who your spirit bears witness to, make contradictory revelatory claims (revelations which you claim are essentially canonical) there is the possibility of error? Error which the Holy Spirit will clear up given time? if the contradictions are attested to by scripture?

Cheers
TV

Even if both are sent from God, I will rather wait to hear from the Spirit of God before taking a stand. That is my position.

Morning OKCornel, hope all is well. Firstly to advise I will be offline for large parts of today, more readily present later on and moreso from tomorrow. Let me attempt some response in the little time I have.

OkCornel:
^^^ I'll address your response shortly.

Cheers. Seen, will likewise reply - trying to keep things sequential.

OkCornel:
TV01, what is your understanding of the scriptures?

Scripture is the canon - the faith delivered;

Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

OkCornel:
What do you refer to as the Scriptures?

The bible - and apart from a few modern-day translations, I am not too fussed about which one a person or denomination use. Perhaps a better question here would have been what is the essence of the scriptures?

To me that is the marvelous light of the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation. As long as it contains that and nothing that compromises that, no real problem.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

OkCornel:
1 John 2 v 26-27 clearly mentioned the Spirit of God will lead a believer into ALL TRUTH. Can all TRUTH be documented?

Perhaps it would be good to define terms. Your use of the term "ALL TRUTH" appears to me all-encompassing in a way that scripture does not teach. But let me allow you to define that first ahead of commenting further.

Best
TV

TV01:
Morning OKCornel, hope all is well. Firstly to advise I will be offline for large parts of today, more readily present later on and moreso from tomorrow. Let me attempt some response in the little time I have.

Cheers. Seen, will likewise reply - trying to keep things sequential.

Scripture is the canon - the faith delivered;

Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

The bible - and apart from a few modern-day translations, I am not too fussed about which one a person or denomination use. Perhaps a better question here would have been what is the essence of the scriptures?

Which of the Bibles are you referring to specifically? The one limited to 66 books? or the ones with more than 66 books...

TV01:

To me that is the marvelous light of the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation. As long as it contains that and nothing that compromises that, no real problem.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Again, I ask... what is the scriptures? and is there a limit to the scriptures? Can ALL TRUTH be documented in a set of books? Even John clearly mentioned if all the acts of Jesus were recorded, there would be no space in this world to contain all the writings. So the issue is this, are you mistaking WRITTEN TRUTH for the COMPLETE TRUTH?

TV01:

Perhaps it would be good to define terms. Your use of the term "ALL TRUTH" appears to me all-encompassing in a way that scripture does not teach. But let me allow you to define that first ahead of commenting further.

Best
TV

My next post will clearly explain what I meant by ALL TRUTH.

Truth in its purest form is observable and unwritten. It proves its authenticity with the passage of time.


LEVELS OF TRUTH

In life...there are four levels of TRUTH that determines your level of wisdom and intelligence;

1) Written and Known Truth: Can be deciphered by logic. Anybody with an open mind to learn starts from here
2) Unwritten and Known Truth: Can be deciphered by a combination of logic and creativity. Geniuses operate at this level
3) Written and Unknown Truth: These are documented mysteries that can only be deciphered at the right time. Genuine Prophets and Seers operate at this level.
4) Unwritten and Unknown Truth: This can be deciphered by a combination of intuition and total dependence on the Spirit of TRUTH i.e. Master of the Universe and Multiverse. Only Sages operate on the 4th level of TRUTH having passed the previous levels.




TV01, Lemme ask you, how and where did Peter get the insight to say this in Matthew 16 v 15-16...when Jesus asked everyone who He was?
Which written truth (scriptures) did Peter refer to at that point in time before knowing Jesus was the Son of God? Whereas others were calling Jesus...John the Baptist, Elijah, Prophet Jeremiah or one of the prophets?

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


Now look at Jesus' response in Matthew 16 v 17;
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Don't mistake written truth for complete truth. Written truth is only a subset of the complete truth. The Holy Spirit is the ultimate source and guidance into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten)

MuttleyLaff:
Glad to know you had a good laugh at yourself

You just couldnt help not getting sucked into stepping into the gutter and bringing up unrelated mentions into this conversation erhn?

It's you who needs to reduce your sugar intake,making you high. Glad you realise its not our topic of discussion

Stick to the program, stick to the scope and remit of the question. The question focused on Jesus, period.

Jesus was what the question Ginalex asked about, not interested in your "aronda" questions

That wasnt hard after all, was it. Thank you. I dont think any of the apostles and disciples did either too.

Nobody asked you to follow anything, but only to give information specifically asked

Just pointing out the truth that your first response wasnt not truthful. Why say something that is not completely true, just in order to achieve an aim. Why couldnt you in the first place, had said to Ginalex's question, that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't specifically mentioned demon names and ranks. I guess it was convenient for you to bury that information and gainful for you to advance something completely different to the actual question asked, erhn? Wasting phone ink on and over unsolicited info, smh. Learn and have the self-discipline to first answer questions before going on a whim and caprices

Is it true that you support homosexuality ?

I sent you an e-mail twice, but it bounced back.
kindly change that email

where have you been all this while,pls you can't just afford to do this to me,pls reply me asap when you get this

Mariangeles:
Is it true that you support homosexuality?

"Wrongdoers eagerly listen to gossip;
liars pay close attention to slander."
- Proverbs 17:4

It is not true Mariangeles. If you had got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles.

Gossip is usually shared and spread by the misinformed. Nothing good, is ever achieved from spreading, carrying or listening to gossip. Gossip is gossip because it is not always the truth. Never entertain gossip, because it kills the soul and wounds another's heart. Right now, my heart bleeds at this misunderstanding of yours and from the feeling sense of me being wrongly judged by you. It is well sha.

Mariangeles, if the bible is known to be with certain words distorted, known to have words changed from their original meaning, known to have new words added that has no meaning related to the original words they are replacing, then people also are bound to be free and come on here, to distort and/or begin distorting my comments, as much as they please.

Gossip reflects the insecurity of those who initiate it. It is a very dangerous tool, and one should be more wary of the gossiper(s) and not the gossips he is trying so hard to relay to you or others

Mariangeles, I beg you, dont spread with your fingers, what your eyes personally didnt see and/or read. Surround yourself with people who enjoy spreading the Gospel, good news and not any spreading hate or gossip!

Mariangeles:

Is it true that you support homosexuality ?

Look at these comments from that same guy in the link & screenshots below and connect the dots for yourself. He supports "consensual, monogamous homosexuality"

https://www.nairaland.com/5254435/leviticus-18-22-20-13/1#82037607

https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult#78961004

Maybe OLAADEGBU or TV01 can shed more light on the matter.

MuttleyLaff:
"Wrongdoers eagerly listen to gossip;
liars pay close attention to slander."
- Proverbs 17:4

It is not true Mariangeles. If you had got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles.

Gossip is usually shared and spread by the misinformed. Nothing good, is ever achieved from spreading, carrying or listening to gossip. Gossip is gossip because it is not always the truth. Never entertain gossip, because it kills the soul and wounds another's heart. Right now, my heart bleeds at this misunderstanding of yours and from the feeling sense of me being wrongly judged by you. It is well sha.

Mariangeles, if the bible is known to be with certain words distorted, known to have words changed from their original meaning, known to have new words added that has no meaning related to the original words they are replacing, then people also are bound to be free and come on here, to distort and/or begin distorting my comments, as much as they please.

Gossip reflects the insecurity of those who initiate it. It is a very dangerous tool, and one should be more wary of the gossiper(s) and not the gossips he is trying so hard to relay to you or others

Mariangeles, I beg you, dont spread with your fingers, what your eyes personally didnt see and/or read. Surround yourself with people who enjoy spreading the Gospel, good news and not any spreading hate or gossip!

If it isn't true, then denounce it once and for all and I will believe you .
Remember when the pharisees accused Jesus Christ of being possessed by the devil, He denounced it by saying "I hath not the devil..."

Mariangeles:
If it isn't true, then denounce it once and for all and I will believe you.
Remember when the pharisees accused Jesus Christ of being possessed by the devil, He denounced it by saying "I hath not the devil..."

I already have said, it is not true Mariangeles and that if you had maturely and wisely got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles or to now denounce anything

I have no need of you believing me or not believing me, but I staunchly and humbly need you, to believe the Bible, believe the Bible in all its originality, in all its genuineness, in all its honest-to-goodness and in all its truthfulness

OkCornel:
I am afraid you are missing the point entirely here. Anyone can claim to have a divine revelation. Your responsibility as a believer is to cross-check with the Spirit of God for veracity or otherwise of such claims. The Spirit of God will lead you into ALL TRUTH (unless you are mistaking written truth for the complete truth)

Firstly the Spirit of God has already inspired scriptural truth as a first point of reference. Secondly, the scriptures contain the fullness of the gospel truth - they are complete. Thirdly, I await your definition of what "ALL TRUTH" encompasses

Fourth, your narrative already seems to lack an internal coherence. If, as you claim, the "Spirit of God" leads you into all truth, what need have you of 3rd parties? Why not hear "ALL TRUTH" direct? Why is there a need for you to hear from others and then go back "to source" to ratify when you are directly connected "to source"?

Fifth, your position effectively falsifies or makes the scriptures redundant. If there is continuing general revelation outside the scripture, which is being revealed by those "sent" even today, then we are working with an incomplete canon. How are the updates published to the body? If indeed there is truth pertaining to salvation, righteousness and worship of God not found in biblical scripture

OkCornel:
That brings me to the question I asked you earlier. What is your understanding of the scripture?
Should the product be focused on at the expense of the source?

I believe I answered this in my previous response. In as much as you utilise the terms product and source, what leads you to believe their is a need for such a distinction?

OkCornel:
When the letter to Timothy was written... are you aware the book of Revelation was not yet in existence...and as such would not have formed part of the ALL SCRIPTURES in 2 Timothy 3 v 16?

I am also further pressed to ask, why didn't Jesus and the Apostles set a limit to the number of books in circulation to be noted as spirit inspired scriptures?

My posers above speak to this. If you do not subscribe to the completeness of the gospel message and the sufficiency of the truth therein for salvation and the fullness of the Christian life, simply say so. That is a huge departure from what would be considered Christian orthodoxy, so much so as to not be considered Christian, but you have a right to your beliefs.

OkCornel:
The main thing is, what is the Spirit of God telling you? Or are you of the opinion the Spirit of God can mislead people?

The Holy Spirit has inspired scripture and has breathed all that is required in the sense I noted immediately above

OkCornel:
Again, what is your definition of the scriptures? 66 books?
Who defined and set a limit to what is the Holy Spirit inspired and canonized scriptures? was it God or some men?

I have pointed you to the fullness of the message - outlined above

OkCornel:
The Holy Spirit that leads everyone into ALL TRUTH is the ultimate.

I not sure the thinking behind this particular statement, but from am orthodox Christian perspective it is riddled with error - to put it politely. The Holy Spirit does not lead "everyone". And the truth the Holy Spirit is concerned with is as I've outlined it above.

OkCornel:
You earlier brought this up "Someone is divinely commissioned, given specific revelation and suddenly veers of course. Yet the One who commissioned such a one will allow them to continue to preach that which is false - wihtout correcting or replacing them - potentially harming individuals and the body as a whole, not to mention causing His holy name to be blasphemed?"

And I brought up Nicolas the deacon and originator of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans as example to answer you in that regard...so how does it not speak to your poser?

Please show how it was someone sent by God with a foundational message or continuing revelation, who veered into error and was outed by individuals going direct to the Holy Spirit to enquire - and not by reference to already revealed scripture.

OkCornel:
First, I need to be clear on what you refer to ask Spirit breathed scriptures...66 books?
Also, saying the Scriptures is the first and foremost standard is tantamount to exalting the product above the source. Without the Holy Spirit, there would be no scriptures in the first place. The ultimate standard remains the Holy Spirit, who is the source and guidance into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten)

I have answered what I consider to be scripture. Surely you can see that you are attempting to at once use the scripture to anchor your position, whilst at the same time falsifying what the scripture says about itself?

OkCornel:
And again, you are elevating the product (scriptures) over and above the source ( Holy Spirit) as the ultimate standard. The Holy Spirit remains the ultimate standard that would guide all believers into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten). Unless you are implying ALL TRUTH is limited to 66 books.

It is you who is trying to introduce non-Christian notions, such as "written & unwritten" into the Christian orthodoxy. All the gospel truth as it pertains to the gospel, Jesus as the way, the truth and the life and the worship of God in spirit and truth is there.

One of the glaringly odd notions you present is the one of "ALL TRUTH", within which you nest another of "written and unwritten" truths. As I stated you have every right to your beliefs, but they are simply not Christian ones.

OkCornel:
Also, Apostle John's book of revelation was an individual claim of divine revelation so...I guess anyone who lived outside of Bible times but got a divine revelation from the Holy Spirit should be totally discarded right?

Nobody will receive a divine revelation which adds anything - or takes anything away - from the faith already delivered to the saints. Otherwise how do we contend for it, if we cannot tell for sure what it is. Not to mention the clear biblical warnings against attempting to do so.

OkCornel:
Even if both are sent from God, I will rather wait to hear from the Spirit of God before taking a stand. That is my position.

As noted why then are you not simply led into all truth directly? Plus you falsify your own fore-witnessing of both as sent and given divine revelation, if you then have to verify your own witness from the Spirit of God, with the Spirit of God.


Cheers
TV

MuttleyLaff:
I already have said, it is not true Mariangeles and that if you had maturely and wisely got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles or to now denounce anything

I have no need of you believing me or not believing me, but I staunchly and humbly need you, to believe the Bible, believe the Bible in all its originality, in all its genuineness, in all its honest-to-goodness and in all its truthfulness

It is well .

TV01:
Firstly the Spirit of God has already inspired scriptural truth as a first point of reference. Secondly, the scriptures contain the fullness of the gospel truth - they are complete.

I need you to clearly tell us what the inspired scriptures are. Are the scriptures limited at 66 books of the Bible? Or does the scriptures include more than 66 books.

By now you should know there is no general consensus in the Christendom as to what the number of books makes up the scriptures.
1) The first version of the KJV Bible (The 1611 KJV Bible) contains more than 66 books.
2) The Ethiopian Bible (which is one of the oldest bibles in existence today) contains more than 80 books, are the books outside the 66 books not inspired of the Holy Spirit?

I need a clear answer along these lines.

TV01:

Thirdly, I await your definition of what "ALL TRUTH" encompasses

I have answered what ALL TRUTH is here;
https://www.nairaland.com/5252047/cultism-spiritual-consequences-deliverance-through/78#82029437

TV01:

Fourth, your narrative already seems to lack an internal coherence. If, as you claim, the "Spirit of God" leads you into all truth, what need have you of 3rd parties? Why not hear "ALL TRUTH" direct? Why is there a need for you to hear from others and then go back "to source" to ratify when you are directly connected "to source"?

1. Let me give you another instance. Which scripture did Peter read, or which additional witness or internal coherence did Peter need to expose the lies of Ananias and Sapphira? These were believers as well.

2. You have also left the initial question I asked you on Peter unanswered. Which scriptures/internal coherence did Peter obtain to get the revelation Jesus is the Son of God in Matthew 16 v 15-16...when Jesus asked everyone who He was?
Which written truth (scriptures) did Peter refer to at that point in time before knowing Jesus was the Son of God? Whereas others were calling Jesus...John the Baptist, Elijah, Prophet Jeremiah or one of the prophets?

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Now look at Jesus' response in Matthew 16 v 17;
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

TV01:

Fifth, your position effectively falsifies or makes the scriptures redundant. If there is continuing general revelation outside the scripture, which is being revealed by those "sent" even today, then we are working with an incomplete canon. How are the updates published to the body? If indeed there is truth pertaining to salvation, righteousness and worship of God not found in biblical scripture

The scriptures are not redundant. It is a written form of the truth. Truth first exists in an unwritten form before it is written. Again, please go and check what I defined as ALL TRUTH. Christendom has mistaken and taken written truth for complete truth. The complete truth can never be documented in a set of books.

Even the acts of Jesus alone, if all were to be recorded...the world will not contain it. Unless you are telling us the unrecorded acts of Jesus are also not part of the TRUTH.

TV01:

I believe I answered this in my previous response. In as much as you utilise the terms product and source, what leads you to believe their is a need for such a distinction?

Because going through the product without any guidance or understanding from the source will leave you susceptible to confusion and deceit.
It's like trying to use a complex gadget without going through the user guide.

TV01:

My posers above speak to this. If you do not subscribe to the completeness of the gospel message and the sufficiency of the truth therein for salvation and the fullness of the Christian life, simply say so. That is a huge departure from what would be considered Christian orthodoxy, so much so as to not be considered Christian, but you have a right to your beliefs.

I have asked you again, what the general consensus in Christian orthodoxy accept as inspired scriptures;
1. Are they pegged at 66 books? or are they more than 66 books?
2. Why didn't the Jesus and the Apostles at a particular point in time limit the scriptures to a set of books in their lifetime? Knowing fully well the Holy Spirit is still in the business of revealing THE TRUTH to everyone rooted in Him?

TV01:

The Holy Spirit has inspired scripture and has breathed all that is required in the sense I noted immediately above

I have pointed you to the fullness of the message - outlined above

I not sure the thinking behind this particular statement, but from am orthodox Christian perspective it is riddled with error - to put it politely. The Holy Spirit does not lead "everyone". And the truth the Holy Spirit is concerned with is as I've outlined it above.

Perhaps, I'll be more specific to use the word believers... rather than "everyone". Again, refer to 1 John 2 v 26-27.

TV01:

Please show how it was someone sent by God with a foundational message or continuing revelation, who veered into error and was outed by individuals going direct to the Holy Spirit to enquire - and not by reference to already revealed scripture.

1. In Acts 6, Nicolas one of the selected deacons who believed in Jesus was appointed and commisioned
2. He was prayed upon by the Spirit-filled Apostles
3. He later on propagated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which taught Christianity can be mixed with participating in Pagan rites.
4. John got a direct revelation from Jesus in the letters written to the churches warning about that. That direct revelation later came to form part of the scriptures as we know it today. But at that point in time, there was no scripture talking specifically against the deed of the Nicolaitans prior to when John got the revelation.

TV01:

I have answered what I consider to be scripture. Surely you can see that you are attempting to at once use the scripture to anchor your position, whilst at the same time falsifying what the scripture says about itself?

I am sorry, you have not been specific enough on what the scripture is precisely. Is the Bible with 66 books or those with more than 66 books.

TV01:

It is you who is trying to introduce non-Christian notions, such as "written & unwritten" into the Christian orthodoxy. All the gospel truth as it pertains to the gospel, Jesus as the way, the truth and the life and the worship of God in spirit and truth is there.

1. Are you trying to tell us ALL TRUTH can be tied down and limited to a set of books?
2. Does it mean the undocumented deeds of Jesus do not form part of the TRUTH as well?
3. Again I ask you, what written truth did Peter rely on to expose Ananias & Sapphira as liars...or to get the revelation that Jesus is the son of God?

TV01:

One of the glaringly odd notions you present is the one of "ALL TRUTH", within which you nest another of "written and unwritten" truths. As I stated you have every right to your beliefs, but they are simply not Christian ones.

Nobody will receive a divine revelation which adds anything - or takes anything away - from the faith already delivered to the saints. Otherwise how do we contend for it, if we cannot tell for sure what it is. Not to mention the clear biblical warnings against attempting to do so.

Again, I will repeat this. The Holy Spirit is the source of ALL TRUTH and will guide every believer into ALL TRUTH. Well unless you have mistaken written truth to be complete truth.

TV01:

As noted why then are you not simply led into all truth directly? Plus you falsify your own fore-witnessing of both as sent and given divine revelation, if you then have to verify your own witness from the Spirit of God, with the Spirit of God.

Cheers
TV

Please tell me, how else can one know if one who was truly sent, later veers off into error without checking with the Holy Spirit for witness?
Is it through the same scriptures that can be twisted by anyone to suit their narratives?

Either way you look at it, you cannot isolate the Holy Spirit from the verification process. He is the revealer and confirmer of ALL TRUTH.

OkCornel:
^^^ I'll address your response shortly.


TV01, what is your understanding of the scriptures?

What do you refer to as the Scriptures?

1 John 2 v 26-27 clearly mentioned the Spirit of God will lead a believer into ALL TRUTH. Can all TRUTH be documented?

See questions.

Anas09:

See questions.

yes? you got the answers?

I still recall our unfinished business on the Churches of Thyatira and Pergamos...

as well as these pictures and link below;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAe19Jn0UU


I am having a discussion with TV01 right now. You can chill for your turn on this thread.

OkCornel:
I need you to clearly tell us what the inspired scriptures are. Are the scriptures limited at 66 books of the Bible? Or does the scriptures include more than 66 books.

By now you should know there is no general consensus in the Christendom as to what the number of books makes up the scriptures.
1) The first version of the KJV Bible (The 1611 KJV Bible) contains more than 66 books.
2) The Ethiopian Bible (which is one of the oldest bibles in existence today) contains more than 80 books, are the books outside the 66 books not inspired of the Holy Spirit? I need a clear answer along these lines. .

I have responded to this previously, but again; as long as the canon contains the gospel and a true representation of Jesus Christ - his divinity, his death, his resurrection, his perfect and completed work - along with instruction for the fullness of Christian life and conduct, with nothing that contradicts or otherwise compromises, I have no problem with some variation in what differing denominations consider as canon.

In the same way I have little issue with most of the bible version available. Even the ones I would typically steer far clear off can be compared against a plethora of others for balance.

I have read a number of ex-canonical works - I loved Jasher - including Enoch, but in as much as they did not in anyway contradict the gospel, I have no problem with them.

The fact that there is not 100% agreement on what represents canon in no way falsifies the gospel. And it is reaching to suggest there are other texts or claimed revelations that must be considered canon or equivalent to canon, just because they are true or even inspired.

OkCornel:
I have answered what ALL TRUTH is here;
https://www.nairaland.com/5252047/cultism-spiritual-consequences-deliverance-through/78#82029437 .

I asked for the boundaries of all truth. You provided a taxonomy of sorts, which, is no way attested to by the scriptures.Actually it is, in that it falls into the "Greek" box.

Is there knowledge and truth outside the scriptures? certainly. Is the knowledge and truth required for a revelation of Gods redemptive purpose, the salvific work of Christ and the fullness of the Christian life within the scriptures, absolutely. One does not need the latter to avail of the former.

It smacks of gnosis, hence my reference to the "Greek seeking for wisdom/knowledge". One need not need be a genius, a prophet or a seer. Indeed the NT amply falsifies all such notion for all who put their faith in Christ.

OkCornel:
1. Let me give you another instance. Which scripture did Peter read, or which additional witness or internal coherence did Peter need to expose the lies of Ananias and Sapphira? These were believers as well. .

An instance of a verified Apostle being led by the spirit? Yet non of your submissions have really addressed my initial question regards verification in any detsil. Further, this was immediate action by the Holy Spirit, not something proven true "with the passage of time" which is another notion you frequently resort to. What happened was a move of the Holy Spirit and is now canonised.

OkCornel:
2. You have also left the initial question I asked you on Peter unanswered. Which scriptures/internal coherence did Peter obtain to get the revelation Jesus is the Son of God in Matthew 16 v 15-16...when Jesus asked everyone who He was?
Which written truth (scriptures) did Peter refer to at that point in time before knowing Jesus was the Son of God? Whereas others were calling Jesus...John the Baptist, Elijah, Prophet Jeremiah or one of the prophets?

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Now look at Jesus' response in Matthew 16 v 17;
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. .

Exactly as I responded above. Further, the fact that many failed to recognise Jesus from the scriptures does not mean He could not be, as He himself testified - "...these are they which speak of Me". And, it was a testimony of the Gospel truth and of Jesus being whom He claimed to be - now canonised.

OkCornel:
The scriptures are not redundant. It is a written form of the truth. Truth first exists in an unwritten form before it is written. Again, please go and check what I defined as ALL TRUTH. Christendom has mistaken and taken written truth for complete truth. The complete truth can never be documented in a set of books.

Au contraire; the truth of the gospel can be and is. Gods unfolding plan of redemption, the saving work of Jesus Christ and the fullness of Christian living and conduct. That is the truth of the gospel.

Needless taxonomies and boasting in prowess is exactly why God has - glory hallelujah - chosen the lowly, the weak, the despised and the things that are not to bring to nowt the things that think they are. God will make foolish those that prate about intellect, genius and their own supposed prudence.

OkCornel:
Even the acts of Jesus alone, if all were to be recorded...the world will not contain it. Unless you are telling us the unrecorded acts of Jesus are also not part of the TRUTH. .

But we have a sufficiency of the truth for the purpose of the gospel. You that are privy to "ALL TRUTH", or even some of this non-documented truth, please share some of it that in any way changes or otherwise falsifies the gospel.

OkCornel:
Because going through the product without any guidance or understanding from the source will leave you susceptible to confusion and deceit. It's like trying to use a complex gadget without going through the user guide.

No, what will lead you susceptible to confusion and deceit if believing in an open-ended canon, and divine general revelation that is uncapped and from unverified sources - not to mention not universally published.

OkCornel:
I have asked you again, what the general consensus in Christian orthodoxy accept as inspired scriptures;
1. Are they pegged at 66 books? or are they more than 66 books?
2. Why didn't the Jesus and the Apostles at a particular point in time limit the scriptures to a set of books in their lifetime? Knowing fully well the Holy Spirit is still in the business of revealing THE TRUTH to everyone rooted in Him? .

have clearly responded to this. If it is a conundrum, it remains one of your own intellect. The Truth revealed by The Holy Spirit is the glorious light of the marvellous gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God to salvation.

The work of the Holy Spirit is not to teach everyone all truth about everything. not least because that would take a thousand lifetimes. Nor is the Holy Spirit "leading everyone", nor necessarily illuminating text He did not inspire, whatever claims are made for such writings.

OkCornel:
Perhaps, I'll be more specific to use the word believers... rather than "everyone". Again, refer to 1 John 2 v 26-27. .

Another area where the error is clear. Contrast with John 16 per the bolded, the truth The Holy Spirit illuminates is that of Christ Jesus, He glorifies the Son. Re-read your quoted verse from 24. The anointing and leading are to illuminate and re-enforce what they had heard, not some endless leading into anything that qualifies as true - it was specifically gospel truth.

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

OkCornel:

1. In Acts 6, Nicolas one of the selected deacons who believed in Jesus was appointed and commisioned
2. He was prayed upon by the Spirit-filled Apostles
3. He later on propagated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which taught Christianity can be mixed with participating in Pagan rites.
4. John got a direct revelation from Jesus in the letters written to the churches warning about that. That direct revelation later came to form part of the scriptures as we know it today. But at that point in time, there was no scripture talking specifically against the deed of the Nicolaitans prior to when John got the revelation.

So what, it's canonised now?

OkCornel:
I am sorry, you have not been specific enough on what the scripture is precisely. Is the Bible with 66 books or those with more than 66 books. .

I believe I have been consistently specific and detailed. Now pray tell us exactly how you receive validation of those sent with hot off the press divine general revelation.

OkCornel:

1. Are you trying to tell us ALL TRUTH can be tied down and limited to a set of books?
2. Does it mean the undocumented deeds of Jesus do not form part of the TRUTH as well?
3. Again I ask you, what written truth did Peter rely on to expose Ananias & Sapphira as liars...or to get the revelation that Jesus is the son of God? .

1. All required gospel truth can
2. Are those documented not sufficient for us to grasp and apprehend the fullness of the gospel? Please share some that change the gospel in a material way. Your points lack follow through - assertions without substance. Trite sounding from an over-sabi perspective, but mostly baseless.
3. The Holy Spirit moved to witness the Apostles and at the same time inspire scripture in that era/age. What witness do your modern day Apostles have regards their claims of divine revelation?

OkCornel:

Again, I will repeat this. The Holy Spirit is the source of ALL TRUTH and will guide every believer into ALL TRUTH. Well unless you have mistaken written truth to be complete truth. .

Repeat it as often as you feel led, it changes nothing - which of the deeds of Jesus not documented in the scriptures has been revealed to you? After all, they are true right? But we have enough of His works, signs, and testimonies within what is written.

If you can indeed lay claim to having being led to just one undocumented truth, pray tell how it changes the gospel as it stands. Alternatively, name one truth, that is not in the canon/gospel as historically revealed, by someone you bear witness too that materially changes the gospel as we have it, or changes/falsifies the faith as it has been delivered. If you are able I may find cause to reconsider, otherwise, all I hear is a mish-mash of baseless assertions grounded in - to put it politely "over-thougth" theology.

OkCornel:
Please tell me, how else can one know if one who was truly sent, later veers off into error without checking with the Holy Spirit for witness? Is it through the same scriptures that can be twisted by anyone to suit their narratives?

Either way you look at it, you cannot isolate the Holy Spirit from the verification process. He is the revealer and confirmer of ALL TRUTH.

Anyone can claim office or divine revelation and being sent or led, but the scripture is clear on how to test and verify them. And The Holy Spirit revealed the truth of the scripture as our first reference point


Cheers
TV

TV01:
I have responded to this previously, but again; as long as the canon contains the gospel and a true representation of Jesus Christ - his divinity, his death, his resurrection, his perfect and completed work - along with instruction for the fullness of Christian life and conduct, with nothing that contradicts or otherwise compromises, I have no problem with some variation in what differing denominations consider as canon.

In the same way I have little issue with most of the bible version available. Even the ones I would typically steer far clear off can be compared against a plethora of others for balance.

I have read a number of ex-canonical works - I loved Jasher - including Enoch, but in as much as they did not in anyway contradict the gospel, I have no problem with them.

The fact that there is not 100% agreement on what represents canon in no way falsifies the gospel. And it is reaching to suggest there are other texts or claimed revelations that must be considered canon or equivalent to canon, just because they are true or even inspired.

In other words, you cannot tell us the number of books the scriptures is limited to.

TV01:

I asked for the boundaries of all truth. You provided a taxonomy of sorts, which, is no way attested to by the scriptures.Actually it is, in that it falls into the "Greek" box.

The boundaries of ALL TRUTH lies in God. He is the only being with the absolute monopoly of truth.

TV01:

Is there knowledge and truth outside the scriptures? certainly. Is the knowledge and truth required for a revelation of Gods redemptive purpose, the salvific work of Christ and the fullness of the Christian life within the scriptures, absolutely. One does not need the latter to avail of the former.

It smacks of gnosis, hence my reference to the "Greek seeking for wisdom/knowledge". One need not need be a genius, a prophet or a seer. Indeed the NT amply falsifies all such notion for all who put their faith in Christ.

And yet knowledge and prophecy are some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Gnosticism is soul led. If you are led of the Spirit of God, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH (be it written or unwritten). Do you know the difference between soul led knowledge and spirit led knowledge? It is what is leading you that makes the difference i.e. your soul or the spirit of God.

TV01:

An instance of a verified Apostle being led by the spirit? Yet non of your submissions have really addressed my initial question regards verification in any detsil. Further, this was immediate action by the Holy Spirit, not something proven true "with the passage of time" which is another notion you frequently resort to. What happened was a move of the Holy Spirit and is now canonised.

1. Are you disputing the fact that Truth proves itself with the passage of time?
2. Per the bolded, does the Holy Spirit still move today? If he does...and yet such moves are not canonized...does it make it not the word of God?

TV01:

Exactly as I responded above. Further, the fact that many failed to recognise Jesus from the scriptures does not mean He could not be, as He himself testified - "...these are they which speak of Me". And, it was a testimony of the Gospel truth and of Jesus being whom He claimed to be - now canonised.

My question remains unanswered. Which scripture or written truth did Peter refer to in his time to receive insight that Jesus is the son of God?

TV01:

Au contraire; the truth of the gospel can be and is. Gods unfolding plan of redemption, the saving work of Jesus Christ and the fullness of Christian living and conduct. That is the truth of the gospel.
Needless taxonomies and boasting in prowess is exactly why God has - glory hallelujah - chosen the lowly, the weak, the despised and the things that are not to bring to nowt the things that think they are. God will make foolish those that prate about intellect, genius and their own supposed prudence.

So that means John was wrong to mention all the acts of Jesus could not be written?

TV01:

But we have a sufficiency of the truth for the purpose of the gospel. You that are privy to "ALL TRUTH", or even some of this non-documented truth, please share some of it that in any way changes or otherwise falsifies the gospel.

I will share some of my experiences as time goes on. Although, it does not in anyway invalidate the written gospel.

TV01:

No, what will lead you susceptible to confusion and deceit if believing in an open-ended canon, and divine general revelation that is uncapped and from unverified sources - not to mention not universally published.

You mean just as the early believers between 33 AD to 96 AD were susceptible to confusion and deceit?

1. If Jesus capped the words of God to His acts and miracles in His lifetime...what becomes of the writings of the Apostles?
2. If the Apostles capped the words of God to letters written in their lifetime... what becomes of the Epistles of early church fathers like Polycarp, Irenaeus, Origen e.t.c. or you mean those men were not inspired by the Holy Spirit as well?

TV01:

have clearly responded to this. If it is a conundrum, it remains one of your own intellect. The Truth revealed by The Holy Spirit is the glorious light of the marvellous gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God to salvation.

Please how does the lie of Ananias and Sapphira revealed by the Holy Spirit to Peter fit in this context?

TV01:

The work of the Holy Spirit is not to teach everyone all truth about everything. not least because that would take a thousand lifetimes. Nor is the Holy Spirit "leading everyone", nor necessarily illuminating text He did not inspire, whatever claims are made for such writings.

Lemme ask you, are all text outside of the Bible uninspired by the Holy Spirit?
And isn't your message here contradicting John's admonition of the Holy Spirit leading believers into ALL TRUTH?

TV01:

Another area where the error is clear. Contrast with John 16 per the bolded, the truth The Holy Spirit illuminates is that of Christ Jesus, He glorifies the Son. Re-read your quoted verse from 24. The anointing and leading are to illuminate and re-enforce what they had heard, not some endless leading into anything that qualifies as true - it was specifically gospel truth.

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

Please read verse 13 again. Did it say the Spirit of Truth will lead you into some truths?

TV01:

So what, it's canonised now?

No, you are missing the point. Which scripture spoke specifically against the Nicolaitans prior to the revelation John got? If indeed all scriptures were supposed to be capped and canonized at a particular point in time?

TV01:

I believe I have been consistently specific and detailed. Now pray tell us exactly how you receive validation of those sent with hot off the press divine general revelation.

1. All required gospel truth can
2. Are those documented not sufficient for us to grasp and apprehend the fullness of the gospel? Please share some that change the gospel in a material way. Your points lack follow through - assertions without substance. Trite sounding from an over-sabi perspective, but mostly baseless.
3. The Holy Spirit moved to witness the Apostles and at the same time inspire scripture in that era/age. What witness do your modern day Apostles have regards their claims of divine revelation?

1. Does the Holy Spirit still move people to witness?
2. What witness do modern day Apostles have? The fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know these or don't you...
And TV01, so I take it that everything on the TRUTH is limited to what is written isn't it? This is a classic case of mistaking the written TRUTH for complete TRUTH. Every written truth you have today was once upon a time unwritten.

Truth in its purest form is unwritten, observable and proves its authenticity over time. You cannot dispute this. Call me over-sabi if you like...but that's what the Truth is. Lol...after all, even Paul got similar remarks in Acts 26 v 24.

TV01:

Repeat it as often as you feel led, it changes nothing - which of the deeds of Jesus not documented in the scriptures has been revealed to you? After all, they are true right? But we have enough of His works, signs, and testimonies within what is written.

If you can indeed lay claim to having being led to just one undocumented truth, pray tell how it changes the gospel as it stands. Alternatively, name one truth, that is not in the canon/gospel as historically revealed, by someone you bear witness too that materially changes the gospel as we have it, or changes/falsifies the faith as it has been delivered. If you are able I may find cause to reconsider, otherwise, all I hear is a mish-mash of baseless assertions grounded in - to put it politely "over-thougth" theology.

I guess you have shifted the goal post to imply unwritten truth counters written truth. Please I am still looking for where I mentioned unwritten truth automatically invalidates the gospel TV01.

TV01:

Anyone can claim office or divine revelation and being sent or led, but the scripture is clear on how to test and verify them. And The Holy Spirit revealed the truth of the scripture as our first reference point


Cheers
TV

You keep on emphasizing on the product (scriptures) as the first point of reference rather than the source (the Holy Spirit).
That is tantamount to placing the cart before the horse.

After all, Satan still quoted scriptures to Jesus in the temptation at the wilderness. I pray tell, how did Jesus overcome except by the help of the Holy Spirit providing guidance. Or was it not the Holy Spirit that led Jesus to fast in the wilderness in the first place?

I'll give you another poser.

1. What scriptures did the likes of Adam or Enoch consult in their walk with God?
2. What scriptures did the likes of those that lived in the days of Enosh consult in order to call upon the name of the Lord in Genesis 4 v 26?

jesusjnr:
Now something happened prior to my leaving this thread at the time, and it was this comment made by Liquidwords on this thread:

This his comment particularly the bolded had to do with a thread I had opened to reveal the appearance of Jesus to me for the first time in a long while. So that was what he said he was willing to bet that it was false.

So he questioned my claim of the appearance of Jesus to me on this very thread, but to be honest that didn't bother me much since I knew it was borne out of ignorance of the Truth.

But it seemed that Someone had taken that particular comment made on this thread personal, and He made sure that appearance of Jesus to me was verified on this same thread where it was questioned, by the Op.

And this was how He did it according to EnthronedbyGod account:



This was the OP's response to my question concerning on what brought him to that particular thread that very day and just moments after I had just confirmed the image @Okcornel had brought to me to verify if it was the face of Jesus who had appeared to me.

Although I had plans to later bring it to the OP to do same and confirm the Image since Jesus had also appeared to him before, but i was shocked to find him there already even before I had left the thread. And it was there and then he confirmed that as the image of Jesus he had seen, and requested me to post it on this very thread for him, which of course I gladly obliged.

So again it was the Holy Ghost that answered for me on that particular occasion, as the Op was led by the Holy Ghost while speaking in tongues to that particular thread of mine where the image of Jesus who appeared to me was .

So that was the second time the Holy Ghost has intervened on my behalf on this thread, but credit should also go to the Op for being led by the Holy Ghost and not the opinions of men, for that to me is what distinguishes him from the others.

However this led to the demonizing and persecution of the Op by several christians here, especially anas09 who called the Op a charlatan for yielding himself to the leading of the Holy Spirit in my respect, as her attacks on the Op had absolutely nothing to do with her excuse of him preaching about Satan, but all about him being led of the Holy Ghost concerning me.

But I know for a certainly that the Holy Ghost shall surely vindicate EnthronedbyGod for choosing to go with the Voice of God and not that of men.

To be continued.

Hence God used EnthronedbyGod to confirm my claim of Jesus' appearance to me on this same thread where it was questioned.

But that now led to some christians questioning the image of Jesus which appeared to the Op (that's inclusive of those who initially believed the Op claims of visions where Jesus appeared to him and had no qualms about), just because it was the same image of Jesus that I said appeared to me, because several here cannot believe that Jesus who they "believe" in, could not possibly appear to me as the guy that first questioned it here.

Not knowing that the appearance of Jesus was nothing compared to what God has already entrusted me with, and that if seeing Jesus was so factorial, He would have appeared to me many times and over. But the reason He had not appeared to me before now was because He saw me as like a replica of Himself on Earth, hence didn't see the need for it.

And that He only appeared to me was as mere formality because my appointed time was at the doors, that why when He appeared just this once, He yet ensured that His once appearance was confirmed to this extent.

And to illustrate my point, i know someone who is very close to me spiritually, who Jesus had appeared to severally, despite that He had not appeared to me. But there's something she said long time ago that God had said to her, which is, that I was strong, but that she was in His hand.

So the reason Jesus never appeared to me since I started walk at the level of the Spirit could be drawn from that saying I suppose of God, because that's the same impression I have gotten severally ever since I began to abide by the Words of Jesus.

Because that was the same impression the first Satanist I had ever remembered meeting, held of me after he came across me in a bus park about sixteen years ago. Despite that it was the first time I was meeting him, he already knew who I was, and he asked me if I didn't see how he looked at me the first time?

And from then on he began to tell me how he was just coming back from a meeting held at the top of Zuma rock in Abuja from midnight to four, that can't I see how sleepy his eyes were, as he had not slept through out the night.

And he tried to lure me to join their group(can't recall the exact name he called it now) using the same baits that are being used by some Satanists here, inclusive of one who came to this thread, how most of the church leaders were also part of their group, calling the names of some of the most prominent, that they made them so. Also citing his own instance and some of his riches, etc., that they would also make me same if I joined.

So from what he said concerning me, despite that I was just meeting him for the first time, and yet "unknown" to the world, made know of the effect my efforts in the closet was already yielding in the spiritual real and an idea of what was to come.

To be continued.

^^^^^
@Smh lol.

1 John 5 v 5-9;

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


Cc: TV01

All they that parade themselves as replicas of God, see, forget what you heard, the LORD is swift to act, the I AM is a jealous God and will never share his glory with filthy worms working deceit by vain words. See how your fellow shaman was thrust out by the ever potent, living word of God, even so, you will be totally disgraced.

Let every hand writing blasphemous epistles be withered!
Ise!!!

Mariangeles:

It is well .

To clear his position once and for all.. ask him to simply type these words HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN

jeraw:
To clear his position once and for all.. ask him to simply type these words HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN

Thank you very much.

That guy is very evasive.

When someone tells you God is not against two consenting monogamous homosexuals...what else is he doing except for supporting homosexuality?


The link below has all the juicy details;
https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult

OkCornel:
In other words, you cannot tell us the number of books the scriptures is limited to.

The essence of the scripture is the gospel. As long as that is captured whole in the canon, why does this question arise? Please make a concise point here.

OkCornel:
The boundaries of ALL TRUTH lies in God. He is the only being with the absolute monopoly of truth.

From the POV of Gods unfolding plan of redemption, the saving work of The Lord Jesus Christ, do we need truth outside the "Gospel Truth". Or put anther way, is there "truth" outside the gospel that is required to make our calling and election sure?

Yes God knows everything, do we need to know everything likewise? And specifically, do we need to know in order to apprehend the gospel. The "All Truth" from the scriptures has a context and application. Yet you would use that from the scripture to render the same scripture void?

Please make your points substantive. Give examples of truth not revealed in scripture which would materially change the gospel message or Christian orthodoxy. Kindly detail some of this unwritten truth for us to consider

OkCornel:
And yet knowledge and prophecy are some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Gnosticism is soul led. If you are led of the Spirit of God, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH (be it written or unwritten). Do you know the difference between soul led knowledge and spirit led knowledge? It is what is leading you that makes the difference i.e. your soul or the spirit of God.

And any such knowledge or prophecy will perfectly accord with the gospel as revealed. If it is a "personal" intimation, then it has no need to be "generally published" or a concern of the body, and will not materially change the gospel or orthodoxy.

Further, there are other spirits out there that a person can be led by. Your insistence that The Holy Spirit leads people into general revelation that is yet unwritten needs to be supported by evidence.

OkCornel:

1. Are you disputing the fact that Truth proves itself with the passage of time?
2. Per the bolded, does the Holy Spirit still move today? If he does...and yet such moves are not canonized...does it make it not the word of God?

1. Another statement in which I struggle to see any substance? Yes, truth does prove itself over time, does that mean it cannot be immediate. The proclamation of Jesus' divinity by Peter which you love to point to - did that have to incubate? Unction was given, it was spoken and it has endured. Has the truth of the gospel in any part been falsified at any point?
2. Yes the Holy Spirit moves. Case in point, convicted me and revealed Christ to me, does that need to be canonised?

What is the point of insisting on canonical additions or changes or expanding the canon if the gospel is not materially changed? And, if you have any "truth" - written or unwritten - which does just that, please share, or this whole exercise becomes rather pointless - for it's own sake

OkCornel:
My question remains unanswered. Which scripture or written truth did Peter refer to in his time to receive insight that Jesus is the son of God?

I did answer. It was unction given by the Holy Spirit and uttered in that age, during that time of Gods unfolding purpose. It is now canonised as scripture. You are attempting to make a point for extra-canonical scripture, by referring to something that is canonised? I also pointed out that Jesus could be discerned from the scripture extant at the time.

OkCornel:
So that means John was wrong to mention all the acts of Jesus could not be written?

The acts that were written were comprehensive, if not exhaustive. Note the point in scripture about the huge effort that would be required to record all The Lords acts. It did not need to be an exhaustive record. That which was captured details all we require.

The prophecies about The Lord said inter-alia, he would heal, set free etc. Multiple instances of all those things are captured. Again, what is your point?

If John records the truth of Z number of miracles, yet The Lord actually did 70 x Z, are we somehow missing truth? Is the gospel patchy or otherwise insufficient. Please present something substantive.

OkCornel:
I will share some of my experiences as time goes on. Although, it does not in anyway invalidate the written gospel.

And like I said, if it doesn't invalidate the gospel or materially add to it, then it's not-canonical. If you claim there are sent apostles and prophets in this age who have material general revelation, then please provide evidence for us to consider.

Kindly share some of this unwritten truth with those of us who hold dearly to the written truth of the gospel - let's see practical application of the "truth" framework you provided, otherwise it remains baseless and merely assertive

OkCornel:

You mean just as the early believers between 33 AD to 96 AD were susceptible to confusion and deceit?

1. If Jesus capped the words of God to His acts and miracles in His lifetime...what becomes of the writings of the Apostles?
2. If the Apostles capped the words of God to letters written in their lifetime... what becomes of the Epistles of early church fathers like Polycarp, Irenaeus, Origen e.t.c. or you mean those men were not inspired by the Holy Spirit as well?

That susceptibility would have been in part due to the lack of an authoritative canon
1. I made no such claim - more later.
2. That is besides the point. They early church father writings are here, we can read them. Do they contain anything that materially changes the gospel? Then they do not need to be included. Do they edify?? Then they can be read. Where they inspired. Did they claim inspiration? And even if they were, does every inspired utterance or writing have to be canonised?

OkCornel:
Please how does the lie of Ananias and Sapphira revealed by the Holy Spirit to Peter fit in this context?

Asked and answered - exactly the same as Peters proclamation about The Lord Jesus Christ.

OkCornel:
Lemme ask you, are all text outside of the Bible not inspired by the Holy Spirit?

If by all text you mean all Christian type text, or all claimed holy text I don't know, and from a gospel perspective I don't believe I need to.

OkCornel:
And isn't your message here contradicting John's admonition of the Holy Spirit leading believers into ALL TRUTH?

I see the error here as thinking all truth means "everything about everything". The angel proclaimed to Zacharias whom he was and how he "stood in the presence of God" and had been sent.

Now, I suppose that through time, there have been numerous instructions from God to Angel Gabriel and a number of significant events as a result. Do I need to be led into the truth of them all? Do I as a gospel believer, as a Christian need to see the meeting minutes. Will they be in any way instructive or guide my walk?

Your use of "ALL TRUTH" is nebulous at best Substantiate what import this usage has, if any, with real detail.

OkCornel:
Please read verse 13 again. Did it say the Spirit of Truth will lead you into some truths?

Kindly read through to verse 15, there are clearly parameters to what the "all" consisted of. And as always, you are invited to show otherwise.

OkCornel:
No, you are missing the point. Which scripture spoke specifically against the Nicolaitans prior to the revelation John got? If indeed all scriptures were supposed to be capped and canonized at a particular point in time?

I shouldn't have to, but for expediencies sake; The NT canon is essentially the life of he Lord and the acts and experience of the Apostles. When The Lord was here on earth and when the Apostles were around the canon was essentially with us (and being played out, filmed in a sense) but not all written. Those who could refute the heresy with direct testimony where as it were, on ground. Now they are not and we have a completed canon. This is no longer that very specific apostolic and foundation era.

OkCornel:

1. Does the Holy Spirit still move people to witness?
2. What witness do modern day Apostles have? The fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know these or don't you...
And TV01, so I take it that everything on the TRUTH is limited to what is written isn't it? This is a classic case of mistaking the written TRUTH for complete TRUTH. Every written truth you have today was once upon a time unwritten.

1. Yes
2. Indeed, I woul dthat you would first show how we witness to those claiming to be "modern day apostles. As for the gifts and fruit, Again yes. Indeed the gifts for the church are clearly outlined and the fruits are evidentiary/testing tools

I don't mistake anything. My point is that the written truth of the gospel is sufficient for the Christian apprehension of Gods redemptive purpose in Christ Jesus.

OkCornel:
Truth in its purest form is unwritten, observable and proves its authenticity over time. You cannot dispute this. Call me over-sabi if you like...but that's what the Truth is. Lol...after all, even Paul got similar remarks in Acts 26 v 24.

I was being polite calling you over-sabi . And kind when I term this another unsubstantiated statement

OkCornel:
I guess you have shifted the goal post to imply unwritten truth counters written truth. Please I am still looking for where I mentioned unwritten truth automatically invalidates the gospel TV01.

No I haven't. I am asking you to demonstrate your claim to unwritten truth. Specifically where it materially alters the gospel. Either by yourself or one of "the modern day apostles" you bear witness to. This should not be too onerous and present an end to all discussion .

OkCornel:
You keep on emphasizing on the product (scriptures) as the first point of reference rather than the source (the Holy Spirit).

For your individual walk with God, by all means go direct - that is my byword. But for family of potentially billions, separated by a number of things, how would you present a unified message to them all? What nation has a leader who alone knows the constitution and presents it to each citizen individually?

OkCornel:
That is tantamount to placing the cart before the horse.

As you please

OkCornel:
After all, Satan still quoted scriptures to Jesus in the temptation at the wilderness. I pray tell, how did Jesus overcome except by the help of the Holy Spirit providing guidance. Or was it not the Holy Spirit that led Jesus to fast in the wilderness in the first place?

And the guidance that The Holy Spirit gave was scriptural references. The leading into the wilderness was about The Lords personal mission. Are all believers required to go into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil as part of their walks?

OkCornel:

I'll give you another poser.

1. What scriptures did the likes of Adam or Enoch consult in their walk with God?
2. What scriptures did the likes of those that lived in the days of Enosh consult in order to call upon the name of the Lord in Genesis 4 v 26?

1. Really . Let me put it like this - when I am physically present with my wife, I am not reading the letters she has written me
2. The pre-flood patriarchs lived vast ages. There was much generational overlap and there would have been a strong oral tradition. From the beginning, the presence and knowledge of God was real and known.

Adam communed with God and all his immediate descendants would have learnt about this. They couldn't not know who God was. Even Cain and Abel conversed directly? They understood what led to the post-fall state.

See, I read non-canonical writings and appreciate some non-scriptural truths, hoping to glean insights that can be woven together .

Unless you have something that clearly demonstrates the truth of your assertions, I believe we are all but done here. I possibly have a further note on some of my observations here and that should be it for me. I no get stamina for 80 pagers again jor.


Cheers
TV

Lol TV01, lemme summarize something to you.

Truth whether written or unwritten complements one another...rather than contradict it.

I am not against the gospel. It is the truth.

Any progressive revelation outside of the scriptures ( capped at Revelation in most Bibles carried around today) inconsistent with the Holy Spirit and the Gospel of Salvation and the Kingdom of God is heresy.

A very basic example of unwritten truth are prophecies spoken in our time and in Nigeria for example that came to pass. Revelations on solutions to problems gotten via dreams. Are these not truths simply because they are not written black and white in the Bible?


I will address your response later today (after working hours) , because it seems you imply unwritten truth counters written truth from all my responses all the while.

The source of all TRUTH remains the Spirit of God... irrespective of how that TRUTH exists either written or unwritten.

jesusjnr:


Hence God used EnthronedbyGod to confirm my claim of Jesus' appearance to me on this same thread where it was questioned.

But that now led to some christians questioning the image of Jesus which appeared to the Op (that's inclusive of those who initially believed the Op claims of visions where Jesus appeared to him and had no qualms about), just because it was the same image of Jesus that I said appeared to me, because several here cannot believe that Jesus who they "believe" in, could not possibly appear to me as the guy that first questioned it here.

Not knowing that the appearance of Jesus was nothing compared to what God has already entrusted me with, and that if seeing Jesus was so factorial, He would have appeared to me many times and over. But the reason He had not appeared to me before now was because He saw me as like a replica of Himself on Earth, hence didn't see the need for it.

And that He only appeared to me was as mere formality because my appointed time was at the doors, that why when He appeared just this once, He yet ensured that His once appearance was confirmed to this extent.

And to illustrate my point, i know someone who is very close to me spiritually, who Jesus had appeared to severally, despite that He had not appeared to me. But there's something she said long time ago that God had said to her, which is, that I was strong, but that she was in His hand.

So the reason Jesus never appeared to me since I started walk at the level of the Spirit could be drawn from that saying I suppose of God, because that's the same impression I have gotten severally ever since I began to abide by the Words of Jesus.

Because that was the same impression the first Satanist I had ever remembered meeting, held of me after he came across me in a bus park about sixteen years ago. Despite that it was the first time I was meeting him, he already knew who I was, and he asked me if I didn't see how he looked at me the first time?

And from then on he began to tell me how he was just coming back from a meeting held at the top of Zuma rock in Abuja from midnight to four, that can't I see how sleepy his eyes were, as he had not slept through out the night.

And he tried to lure me to join their group(can't recall the exact name he called it now) using the same baits that are being used by some Satanists here, inclusive of one who came to this thread, how most of the church leaders were also part of their group, calling the names of some of the most prominent, that they made them so. Also citing his own instance and some of his riches, etc., that they would also make me same if I joined.

So from what he said concerning me, despite that I was just meeting him for the first time, and yet "unknown" to the world, made know of the effect my efforts in the closet was already yielding in the spiritual real and an idea of what was to come.

To be continued.

Be quiet Nicolai, be quiet.

OkCornel:


yes? you got the answers?

I still recall our unfinished business on the Churches of Thyatira and Pergamos...

as well as these pictures and link below;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAe19Jn0UU


I am having a discussion with TV01 right now. You can chill for your turn on this thread.

Yes, and I can see how you're evading TV's questions. Do you even understand his questions?

Him dey talk another thing, you dey respond to another thing.

MuttleyLaff:
^^^^^
@Smh lol.

Don't shake it too hard. The guy is dead anyways.

michaelkaroh:
All they that parade themselves as replicas of God, see, forget what you heard, the LORD is swift to act, the I AM is a jealous God and will never share his glory with filthy worms working deceit by vain words. See how your fellow shaman was thrust out by the ever potent, living word of God, even so, you will be totally disgraced.

Let every hand writing blasphemous epistles be withered!
Ise!!!

Ah, who be shaman?

jeraw:
To clear his position once and for all.. ask him to simply type these words HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN

lol

Anas09:

Yes, and I can see how you're evading TV's questions. Do you even understand his questions?

Him dey talk another thing, you dey respond to another thing.

Because you are being willfully blind to my responses. Just as you have been willfully blind to the testimonies on this thread. After all, you earlier stated you only read posts you are mentioned in, rather than all the updates on this thread.

And also evasive on the matters below;

1. Going to watch the video of an ex-satanist exposing the secrets of darkness...yet turning around to castigate the OP on the same matter, after encouraging him initially to do so (screenshot 1).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAe19Jn0UU

2. The blasphemy of your mentor below (screenshot 2);