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Biodun Fatoyinbo Was Rusticated At UNILORIN Over Cultism - Aliu Bolakale / You Are A Saint Through Christ. / Deliverance Through Speaking In Tongues (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 11:43pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
TV01:You know you've "entered one chance" when again, you still don't have a sense of your questions being directly addressed |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 12:16am On Sep 08, 2019 |
TV01: I am afraid you are missing the point entirely here. Anyone can claim to have a divine revelation. Your responsibility as a believer is to cross-check with the Spirit of God for veracity or otherwise of such claims. The Spirit of God will lead you into ALL TRUTH (unless you are mistaking written truth for the complete truth) TV01: That brings me to the question I asked you earlier. What is your understanding of the scripture? Should the product be focused on at the expense of the source? When the letter to Timothy was written... are you aware the book of Revelation was not yet in existence...and as such would not have formed part of the ALL SCRIPTURES in 2 Timothy 3 v 16? I am also further pressed to ask, why didn't Jesus and the Apostles set a limit to the number of books in circulation to be noted as spirit inspired scriptures? TV01:The main thing is, what is the Spirit of God telling you? Or are you of the opinion the Spirit of God can mislead people? TV01:Again, what is your definition of the scriptures? 66 books? TV01: Who defined and set a limit to what is the Holy Spirit inspired and canonized scriptures? was it God or some men? TV01:The Holy Spirit that leads everyone into ALL TRUTH is the ultimate. TV01: You earlier brought this up "Someone is divinely commissioned, given specific revelation and suddenly veers of course. Yet the One who commissioned such a one will allow them to continue to preach that which is false - wihtout correcting or replacing them - potentially harming individuals and the body as a whole, not to mention causing His holy name to be blasphemed?" And I brought up Nicolas the deacon and originator of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans as example to answer you in that regard...so how does it not speak to your poser? TV01: First, I need to be clear on what you refer to ask Spirit breathed scriptures...66 books? Also, saying the Scriptures is the first and foremost standard is tantamount to exalting the product above the source. Without the Holy Spirit, there would be no scriptures in the first place. The ultimate standard remains the Holy Spirit, who is the source and guidance into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten) TV01:Sorry, how does this scripture relate to testing all Spirits as written by Apostle John? TV01:And again, you are elevating the product (scriptures) over and above the source ( Holy Spirit) as the ultimate standard. The Holy Spirit remains the ultimate standard that would guide all believers into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten). Unless you are implying ALL TRUTH is limited to 66 books. Also, Apostle John's book of revelation was an individual claim of divine revelation so...I guess anyone who lived outside of Bible times but got a divine revelation from the Holy Spirit should be totally discarded right? TV01: Even if both are sent from God, I will rather wait to hear from the Spirit of God before taking a stand. That is my position. |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by TV01(m): 7:40am On Sep 08, 2019 |
Morning OKCornel, hope all is well. Firstly to advise I will be offline for large parts of today, more readily present later on and moreso from tomorrow. Let me attempt some response in the little time I have. OkCornel:Cheers. Seen, will likewise reply - trying to keep things sequential. OkCornel:Scripture is the canon - the faith delivered; Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. OkCornel:The bible - and apart from a few modern-day translations, I am not too fussed about which one a person or denomination use. Perhaps a better question here would have been what is the essence of the scriptures? To me that is the marvelous light of the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation. As long as it contains that and nothing that compromises that, no real problem. John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. OkCornel:Perhaps it would be good to define terms. Your use of the term "ALL TRUTH" appears to me all-encompassing in a way that scripture does not teach. But let me allow you to define that first ahead of commenting further. Best TV |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 10:09am On Sep 08, 2019 |
TV01: Which of the Bibles are you referring to specifically? The one limited to 66 books? or the ones with more than 66 books... TV01: Again, I ask... what is the scriptures? and is there a limit to the scriptures? Can ALL TRUTH be documented in a set of books? Even John clearly mentioned if all the acts of Jesus were recorded, there would be no space in this world to contain all the writings. So the issue is this, are you mistaking WRITTEN TRUTH for the COMPLETE TRUTH? TV01: My next post will clearly explain what I meant by ALL TRUTH. 2 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 10:19am On Sep 08, 2019 |
Truth in its purest form is observable and unwritten. It proves its authenticity with the passage of time. LEVELS OF TRUTH In life...there are four levels of TRUTH that determines your level of wisdom and intelligence; 1) Written and Known Truth: Can be deciphered by logic. Anybody with an open mind to learn starts from here 2) Unwritten and Known Truth: Can be deciphered by a combination of logic and creativity. Geniuses operate at this level 3) Written and Unknown Truth: These are documented mysteries that can only be deciphered at the right time. Genuine Prophets and Seers operate at this level. 4) Unwritten and Unknown Truth: This can be deciphered by a combination of intuition and total dependence on the Spirit of TRUTH i.e. Master of the Universe and Multiverse. Only Sages operate on the 4th level of TRUTH having passed the previous levels. TV01, Lemme ask you, how and where did Peter get the insight to say this in Matthew 16 v 15-16...when Jesus asked everyone who He was? Which written truth (scriptures) did Peter refer to at that point in time before knowing Jesus was the Son of God? Whereas others were calling Jesus...John the Baptist, Elijah, Prophet Jeremiah or one of the prophets? 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Now look at Jesus' response in Matthew 16 v 17; 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Don't mistake written truth for complete truth. Written truth is only a subset of the complete truth. The Holy Spirit is the ultimate source and guidance into ALL TRUTH (both written and unwritten) 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Mariangeles(f): 4:14pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Is it true that you support homosexuality ? 2 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by thekoko007: 4:22pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
where have you been all this while,pls you can't just afford to do this to me,pls reply me asap when you get this |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 4:27pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
Mariangeles:"Wrongdoers eagerly listen to gossip; liars pay close attention to slander." - Proverbs 17:4 It is not true Mariangeles. If you had got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles. Gossip is usually shared and spread by the misinformed. Nothing good, is ever achieved from spreading, carrying or listening to gossip. Gossip is gossip because it is not always the truth. Never entertain gossip, because it kills the soul and wounds another's heart. Right now, my heart bleeds at this misunderstanding of yours and from the feeling sense of me being wrongly judged by you. It is well sha. Mariangeles, if the bible is known to be with certain words distorted, known to have words changed from their original meaning, known to have new words added that has no meaning related to the original words they are replacing, then people also are bound to be free and come on here, to distort and/or begin distorting my comments, as much as they please. Gossip reflects the insecurity of those who initiate it. It is a very dangerous tool, and one should be more wary of the gossiper(s) and not the gossips he is trying so hard to relay to you or others Mariangeles, I beg you, dont spread with your fingers, what your eyes personally didnt see and/or read. Surround yourself with people who enjoy spreading the Gospel, good news and not any spreading hate or gossip! |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 4:29pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
Mariangeles: Look at these comments from that same guy in the link & screenshots below and connect the dots for yourself. He supports "consensual, monogamous homosexuality" https://www.nairaland.com/5254435/leviticus-18-22-20-13/1#82037607 https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult#78961004 Maybe OLAADEGBU or TV01 can shed more light on the matter.
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Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Mariangeles(f): 5:50pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:If it isn't true, then denounce it once and for all and I will believe you . Remember when the pharisees accused Jesus Christ of being possessed by the devil, He denounced it by saying "I hath not the devil..." |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 6:02pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
Mariangeles:I already have said, it is not true Mariangeles and that if you had maturely and wisely got the facts right first, you wouldnt have fallen into the trap of needing to ask me if anything is true Mariangeles or to now denounce anything I have no need of you believing me or not believing me, but I staunchly and humbly need you, to believe the Bible, believe the Bible in all its originality, in all its genuineness, in all its honest-to-goodness and in all its truthfulness |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by TV01(m): 7:17pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
OkCornel:Firstly the Spirit of God has already inspired scriptural truth as a first point of reference. Secondly, the scriptures contain the fullness of the gospel truth - they are complete. Thirdly, I await your definition of what "ALL TRUTH" encompasses Fourth, your narrative already seems to lack an internal coherence. If, as you claim, the "Spirit of God" leads you into all truth, what need have you of 3rd parties? Why not hear "ALL TRUTH" direct? Why is there a need for you to hear from others and then go back "to source" to ratify when you are directly connected "to source"? Fifth, your position effectively falsifies or makes the scriptures redundant. If there is continuing general revelation outside the scripture, which is being revealed by those "sent" even today, then we are working with an incomplete canon. How are the updates published to the body? If indeed there is truth pertaining to salvation, righteousness and worship of God not found in biblical scripture OkCornel:I believe I answered this in my previous response. In as much as you utilise the terms product and source, what leads you to believe their is a need for such a distinction? OkCornel:My posers above speak to this. If you do not subscribe to the completeness of the gospel message and the sufficiency of the truth therein for salvation and the fullness of the Christian life, simply say so. That is a huge departure from what would be considered Christian orthodoxy, so much so as to not be considered Christian, but you have a right to your beliefs. OkCornel:The Holy Spirit has inspired scripture and has breathed all that is required in the sense I noted immediately above OkCornel:I have pointed you to the fullness of the message - outlined above OkCornel:I not sure the thinking behind this particular statement, but from am orthodox Christian perspective it is riddled with error - to put it politely. The Holy Spirit does not lead "everyone". And the truth the Holy Spirit is concerned with is as I've outlined it above. OkCornel:Please show how it was someone sent by God with a foundational message or continuing revelation, who veered into error and was outed by individuals going direct to the Holy Spirit to enquire - and not by reference to already revealed scripture. OkCornel:I have answered what I consider to be scripture. Surely you can see that you are attempting to at once use the scripture to anchor your position, whilst at the same time falsifying what the scripture says about itself? OkCornel:It is you who is trying to introduce non-Christian notions, such as "written & unwritten" into the Christian orthodoxy. All the gospel truth as it pertains to the gospel, Jesus as the way, the truth and the life and the worship of God in spirit and truth is there. One of the glaringly odd notions you present is the one of "ALL TRUTH", within which you nest another of "written and unwritten" truths. As I stated you have every right to your beliefs, but they are simply not Christian ones. OkCornel:Nobody will receive a divine revelation which adds anything - or takes anything away - from the faith already delivered to the saints. Otherwise how do we contend for it, if we cannot tell for sure what it is. Not to mention the clear biblical warnings against attempting to do so. OkCornel:As noted why then are you not simply led into all truth directly? Plus you falsify your own fore-witnessing of both as sent and given divine revelation, if you then have to verify your own witness from the Spirit of God, with the Spirit of God. Cheers TV 3 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Mariangeles(f): 7:53pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:It is well . |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 8:57pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
TV01: I need you to clearly tell us what the inspired scriptures are. Are the scriptures limited at 66 books of the Bible? Or does the scriptures include more than 66 books. By now you should know there is no general consensus in the Christendom as to what the number of books makes up the scriptures. 1) The first version of the KJV Bible (The 1611 KJV Bible) contains more than 66 books. 2) The Ethiopian Bible (which is one of the oldest bibles in existence today) contains more than 80 books, are the books outside the 66 books not inspired of the Holy Spirit? I need a clear answer along these lines. TV01: I have answered what ALL TRUTH is here; https://www.nairaland.com/5252047/cultism-spiritual-consequences-deliverance-through/78#82029437 TV01: 1. Let me give you another instance. Which scripture did Peter read, or which additional witness or internal coherence did Peter need to expose the lies of Ananias and Sapphira? These were believers as well. 2. You have also left the initial question I asked you on Peter unanswered. Which scriptures/internal coherence did Peter obtain to get the revelation Jesus is the Son of God in Matthew 16 v 15-16...when Jesus asked everyone who He was? Which written truth (scriptures) did Peter refer to at that point in time before knowing Jesus was the Son of God? Whereas others were calling Jesus...John the Baptist, Elijah, Prophet Jeremiah or one of the prophets? 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Now look at Jesus' response in Matthew 16 v 17; 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. TV01: The scriptures are not redundant. It is a written form of the truth. Truth first exists in an unwritten form before it is written. Again, please go and check what I defined as ALL TRUTH. Christendom has mistaken and taken written truth for complete truth. The complete truth can never be documented in a set of books. Even the acts of Jesus alone, if all were to be recorded...the world will not contain it. Unless you are telling us the unrecorded acts of Jesus are also not part of the TRUTH. TV01: Because going through the product without any guidance or understanding from the source will leave you susceptible to confusion and deceit. It's like trying to use a complex gadget without going through the user guide. TV01: I have asked you again, what the general consensus in Christian orthodoxy accept as inspired scriptures; 1. Are they pegged at 66 books? or are they more than 66 books? 2. Why didn't the Jesus and the Apostles at a particular point in time limit the scriptures to a set of books in their lifetime? Knowing fully well the Holy Spirit is still in the business of revealing THE TRUTH to everyone rooted in Him? TV01:Perhaps, I'll be more specific to use the word believers... rather than "everyone". Again, refer to 1 John 2 v 26-27. TV01:1. In Acts 6, Nicolas one of the selected deacons who believed in Jesus was appointed and commisioned 2. He was prayed upon by the Spirit-filled Apostles 3. He later on propagated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which taught Christianity can be mixed with participating in Pagan rites. 4. John got a direct revelation from Jesus in the letters written to the churches warning about that. That direct revelation later came to form part of the scriptures as we know it today. But at that point in time, there was no scripture talking specifically against the deed of the Nicolaitans prior to when John got the revelation. TV01: I am sorry, you have not been specific enough on what the scripture is precisely. Is the Bible with 66 books or those with more than 66 books. TV01: 1. Are you trying to tell us ALL TRUTH can be tied down and limited to a set of books? 2. Does it mean the undocumented deeds of Jesus do not form part of the TRUTH as well? 3. Again I ask you, what written truth did Peter rely on to expose Ananias & Sapphira as liars...or to get the revelation that Jesus is the son of God? TV01: Again, I will repeat this. The Holy Spirit is the source of ALL TRUTH and will guide every believer into ALL TRUTH. Well unless you have mistaken written truth to be complete truth. TV01: Please tell me, how else can one know if one who was truly sent, later veers off into error without checking with the Holy Spirit for witness? Is it through the same scriptures that can be twisted by anyone to suit their narratives? Either way you look at it, you cannot isolate the Holy Spirit from the verification process. He is the revealer and confirmer of ALL TRUTH. 2 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 10:42pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
OkCornel:See questions. |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 10:48pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
Anas09: yes? you got the answers? I still recall our unfinished business on the Churches of Thyatira and Pergamos... as well as these pictures and link below; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAe19Jn0UU I am having a discussion with TV01 right now. You can chill for your turn on this thread. 2 Likes 1 Share
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Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by TV01(m): 11:40pm On Sep 08, 2019 |
OkCornel:I have responded to this previously, but again; as long as the canon contains the gospel and a true representation of Jesus Christ - his divinity, his death, his resurrection, his perfect and completed work - along with instruction for the fullness of Christian life and conduct, with nothing that contradicts or otherwise compromises, I have no problem with some variation in what differing denominations consider as canon. In the same way I have little issue with most of the bible version available. Even the ones I would typically steer far clear off can be compared against a plethora of others for balance. I have read a number of ex-canonical works - I loved Jasher - including Enoch, but in as much as they did not in anyway contradict the gospel, I have no problem with them. The fact that there is not 100% agreement on what represents canon in no way falsifies the gospel. And it is reaching to suggest there are other texts or claimed revelations that must be considered canon or equivalent to canon, just because they are true or even inspired. OkCornel:I asked for the boundaries of all truth. You provided a taxonomy of sorts, which, is no way attested to by the scriptures.Actually it is, in that it falls into the "Greek" box. Is there knowledge and truth outside the scriptures? certainly. Is the knowledge and truth required for a revelation of Gods redemptive purpose, the salvific work of Christ and the fullness of the Christian life within the scriptures, absolutely. One does not need the latter to avail of the former. It smacks of gnosis, hence my reference to the "Greek seeking for wisdom/knowledge". One need not need be a genius, a prophet or a seer. Indeed the NT amply falsifies all such notion for all who put their faith in Christ. OkCornel:An instance of a verified Apostle being led by the spirit? Yet non of your submissions have really addressed my initial question regards verification in any detsil. Further, this was immediate action by the Holy Spirit, not something proven true "with the passage of time" which is another notion you frequently resort to. What happened was a move of the Holy Spirit and is now canonised. OkCornel:Exactly as I responded above. Further, the fact that many failed to recognise Jesus from the scriptures does not mean He could not be, as He himself testified - "...these are they which speak of Me". And, it was a testimony of the Gospel truth and of Jesus being whom He claimed to be - now canonised. OkCornel:Au contraire; the truth of the gospel can be and is. Gods unfolding plan of redemption, the saving work of Jesus Christ and the fullness of Christian living and conduct. That is the truth of the gospel. Needless taxonomies and boasting in prowess is exactly why God has - glory hallelujah - chosen the lowly, the weak, the despised and the things that are not to bring to nowt the things that think they are. God will make foolish those that prate about intellect, genius and their own supposed prudence. OkCornel:But we have a sufficiency of the truth for the purpose of the gospel. You that are privy to "ALL TRUTH", or even some of this non-documented truth, please share some of it that in any way changes or otherwise falsifies the gospel. OkCornel:No, what will lead you susceptible to confusion and deceit if believing in an open-ended canon, and divine general revelation that is uncapped and from unverified sources - not to mention not universally published. OkCornel:have clearly responded to this. If it is a conundrum, it remains one of your own intellect. The Truth revealed by The Holy Spirit is the glorious light of the marvellous gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ, which is the power of God to salvation. The work of the Holy Spirit is not to teach everyone all truth about everything. not least because that would take a thousand lifetimes. Nor is the Holy Spirit "leading everyone", nor necessarily illuminating text He did not inspire, whatever claims are made for such writings. OkCornel:Another area where the error is clear. Contrast with John 16 per the bolded, the truth The Holy Spirit illuminates is that of Christ Jesus, He glorifies the Son. Re-read your quoted verse from 24. The anointing and leading are to illuminate and re-enforce what they had heard, not some endless leading into anything that qualifies as true - it was specifically gospel truth. 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. OkCornel:So what, it's canonised now? OkCornel:I believe I have been consistently specific and detailed. Now pray tell us exactly how you receive validation of those sent with hot off the press divine general revelation. OkCornel:1. All required gospel truth can 2. Are those documented not sufficient for us to grasp and apprehend the fullness of the gospel? Please share some that change the gospel in a material way. Your points lack follow through - assertions without substance. Trite sounding from an over-sabi perspective, but mostly baseless. 3. The Holy Spirit moved to witness the Apostles and at the same time inspire scripture in that era/age. What witness do your modern day Apostles have regards their claims of divine revelation? OkCornel:Repeat it as often as you feel led, it changes nothing - which of the deeds of Jesus not documented in the scriptures has been revealed to you? After all, they are true right? But we have enough of His works, signs, and testimonies within what is written. If you can indeed lay claim to having being led to just one undocumented truth, pray tell how it changes the gospel as it stands. Alternatively, name one truth, that is not in the canon/gospel as historically revealed, by someone you bear witness too that materially changes the gospel as we have it, or changes/falsifies the faith as it has been delivered. If you are able I may find cause to reconsider, otherwise, all I hear is a mish-mash of baseless assertions grounded in - to put it politely "over-thougth" theology. OkCornel:Anyone can claim office or divine revelation and being sent or led, but the scripture is clear on how to test and verify them. And The Holy Spirit revealed the truth of the scripture as our first reference point Cheers TV |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 12:33am On Sep 09, 2019 |
TV01:In other words, you cannot tell us the number of books the scriptures is limited to. TV01:The boundaries of ALL TRUTH lies in God. He is the only being with the absolute monopoly of truth. TV01: And yet knowledge and prophecy are some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Gnosticism is soul led. If you are led of the Spirit of God, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH (be it written or unwritten). Do you know the difference between soul led knowledge and spirit led knowledge? It is what is leading you that makes the difference i.e. your soul or the spirit of God. TV01: 1. Are you disputing the fact that Truth proves itself with the passage of time? 2. Per the bolded, does the Holy Spirit still move today? If he does...and yet such moves are not canonized...does it make it not the word of God? TV01: My question remains unanswered. Which scripture or written truth did Peter refer to in his time to receive insight that Jesus is the son of God? TV01: So that means John was wrong to mention all the acts of Jesus could not be written? TV01: I will share some of my experiences as time goes on. Although, it does not in anyway invalidate the written gospel. TV01:You mean just as the early believers between 33 AD to 96 AD were susceptible to confusion and deceit? 1. If Jesus capped the words of God to His acts and miracles in His lifetime...what becomes of the writings of the Apostles? 2. If the Apostles capped the words of God to letters written in their lifetime... what becomes of the Epistles of early church fathers like Polycarp, Irenaeus, Origen e.t.c. or you mean those men were not inspired by the Holy Spirit as well? TV01:Please how does the lie of Ananias and Sapphira revealed by the Holy Spirit to Peter fit in this context? TV01:Lemme ask you, are all text outside of the Bible uninspired by the Holy Spirit? And isn't your message here contradicting John's admonition of the Holy Spirit leading believers into ALL TRUTH? TV01: Please read verse 13 again. Did it say the Spirit of Truth will lead you into some truths? TV01: No, you are missing the point. Which scripture spoke specifically against the Nicolaitans prior to the revelation John got? If indeed all scriptures were supposed to be capped and canonized at a particular point in time? TV01: 1. Does the Holy Spirit still move people to witness? 2. What witness do modern day Apostles have? The fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know these or don't you... And TV01, so I take it that everything on the TRUTH is limited to what is written isn't it? This is a classic case of mistaking the written TRUTH for complete TRUTH. Every written truth you have today was once upon a time unwritten. Truth in its purest form is unwritten, observable and proves its authenticity over time. You cannot dispute this. Call me over-sabi if you like...but that's what the Truth is. Lol...after all, even Paul got similar remarks in Acts 26 v 24. TV01: I guess you have shifted the goal post to imply unwritten truth counters written truth. Please I am still looking for where I mentioned unwritten truth automatically invalidates the gospel TV01. TV01: You keep on emphasizing on the product (scriptures) as the first point of reference rather than the source (the Holy Spirit). That is tantamount to placing the cart before the horse. After all, Satan still quoted scriptures to Jesus in the temptation at the wilderness. I pray tell, how did Jesus overcome except by the help of the Holy Spirit providing guidance. Or was it not the Holy Spirit that led Jesus to fast in the wilderness in the first place? I'll give you another poser. 1. What scriptures did the likes of Adam or Enoch consult in their walk with God? 2. What scriptures did the likes of those that lived in the days of Enosh consult in order to call upon the name of the Lord in Genesis 4 v 26? 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 7:32am On Sep 09, 2019 |
jesusjnr: Hence God used EnthronedbyGod to confirm my claim of Jesus' appearance to me on this same thread where it was questioned. But that now led to some christians questioning the image of Jesus which appeared to the Op (that's inclusive of those who initially believed the Op claims of visions where Jesus appeared to him and had no qualms about), just because it was the same image of Jesus that I said appeared to me, because several here cannot believe that Jesus who they "believe" in, could not possibly appear to me as the guy that first questioned it here. Not knowing that the appearance of Jesus was nothing compared to what God has already entrusted me with, and that if seeing Jesus was so factorial, He would have appeared to me many times and over. But the reason He had not appeared to me before now was because He saw me as like a replica of Himself on Earth, hence didn't see the need for it. And that He only appeared to me was as mere formality because my appointed time was at the doors, that why when He appeared just this once, He yet ensured that His once appearance was confirmed to this extent. And to illustrate my point, i know someone who is very close to me spiritually, who Jesus had appeared to severally, despite that He had not appeared to me. But there's something she said long time ago that God had said to her, which is, that I was strong, but that she was in His hand. So the reason Jesus never appeared to me since I started walk at the level of the Spirit could be drawn from that saying I suppose of God, because that's the same impression I have gotten severally ever since I began to abide by the Words of Jesus. Because that was the same impression the first Satanist I had ever remembered meeting, held of me after he came across me in a bus park about sixteen years ago. Despite that it was the first time I was meeting him, he already knew who I was, and he asked me if I didn't see how he looked at me the first time? And from then on he began to tell me how he was just coming back from a meeting held at the top of Zuma rock in Abuja from midnight to four, that can't I see how sleepy his eyes were, as he had not slept through out the night. And he tried to lure me to join their group(can't recall the exact name he called it now) using the same baits that are being used by some Satanists here, inclusive of one who came to this thread, how most of the church leaders were also part of their group, calling the names of some of the most prominent, that they made them so. Also citing his own instance and some of his riches, etc., that they would also make me same if I joined. So from what he said concerning me, despite that I was just meeting him for the first time, and yet "unknown" to the world, made know of the effect my efforts in the closet was already yielding in the spiritual real and an idea of what was to come. To be continued. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 8:31am On Sep 09, 2019 |
^^^^^ @Smh lol. 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 9:43am On Sep 09, 2019 |
1 John 5 v 5-9; 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. Cc: TV01 |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 10:43am On Sep 09, 2019 |
All they that parade themselves as replicas of God, see, forget what you heard, the LORD is swift to act, the I AM is a jealous God and will never share his glory with filthy worms working deceit by vain words. See how your fellow shaman was thrust out by the ever potent, living word of God, even so, you will be totally disgraced. Let every hand writing blasphemous epistles be withered! Ise!!! 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by jeraw: 10:56am On Sep 09, 2019 |
Mariangeles:To clear his position once and for all.. ask him to simply type these words HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 11:07am On Sep 09, 2019 |
jeraw: Thank you very much. That guy is very evasive. When someone tells you God is not against two consenting monogamous homosexuals...what else is he doing except for supporting homosexuality? The link below has all the juicy details; https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult 2 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by TV01(m): 11:43am On Sep 09, 2019 |
OkCornel:The essence of the scripture is the gospel. As long as that is captured whole in the canon, why does this question arise? Please make a concise point here. OkCornel:From the POV of Gods unfolding plan of redemption, the saving work of The Lord Jesus Christ, do we need truth outside the "Gospel Truth". Or put anther way, is there "truth" outside the gospel that is required to make our calling and election sure? Yes God knows everything, do we need to know everything likewise? And specifically, do we need to know in order to apprehend the gospel. The "All Truth" from the scriptures has a context and application. Yet you would use that from the scripture to render the same scripture void? Please make your points substantive. Give examples of truth not revealed in scripture which would materially change the gospel message or Christian orthodoxy. Kindly detail some of this unwritten truth for us to consider OkCornel:And any such knowledge or prophecy will perfectly accord with the gospel as revealed. If it is a "personal" intimation, then it has no need to be "generally published" or a concern of the body, and will not materially change the gospel or orthodoxy. Further, there are other spirits out there that a person can be led by. Your insistence that The Holy Spirit leads people into general revelation that is yet unwritten needs to be supported by evidence. OkCornel:1. Another statement in which I struggle to see any substance? Yes, truth does prove itself over time, does that mean it cannot be immediate. The proclamation of Jesus' divinity by Peter which you love to point to - did that have to incubate? Unction was given, it was spoken and it has endured. Has the truth of the gospel in any part been falsified at any point? 2. Yes the Holy Spirit moves. Case in point, convicted me and revealed Christ to me, does that need to be canonised? What is the point of insisting on canonical additions or changes or expanding the canon if the gospel is not materially changed? And, if you have any "truth" - written or unwritten - which does just that, please share, or this whole exercise becomes rather pointless - for it's own sake OkCornel:I did answer. It was unction given by the Holy Spirit and uttered in that age, during that time of Gods unfolding purpose. It is now canonised as scripture. You are attempting to make a point for extra-canonical scripture, by referring to something that is canonised? I also pointed out that Jesus could be discerned from the scripture extant at the time. OkCornel:The acts that were written were comprehensive, if not exhaustive. Note the point in scripture about the huge effort that would be required to record all The Lords acts. It did not need to be an exhaustive record. That which was captured details all we require. The prophecies about The Lord said inter-alia, he would heal, set free etc. Multiple instances of all those things are captured. Again, what is your point? If John records the truth of Z number of miracles, yet The Lord actually did 70 x Z, are we somehow missing truth? Is the gospel patchy or otherwise insufficient. Please present something substantive. OkCornel:And like I said, if it doesn't invalidate the gospel or materially add to it, then it's not-canonical. If you claim there are sent apostles and prophets in this age who have material general revelation, then please provide evidence for us to consider. Kindly share some of this unwritten truth with those of us who hold dearly to the written truth of the gospel - let's see practical application of the "truth" framework you provided, otherwise it remains baseless and merely assertive OkCornel:That susceptibility would have been in part due to the lack of an authoritative canon 1. I made no such claim - more later. 2. That is besides the point. They early church father writings are here, we can read them. Do they contain anything that materially changes the gospel? Then they do not need to be included. Do they edify?? Then they can be read. Where they inspired. Did they claim inspiration? And even if they were, does every inspired utterance or writing have to be canonised? OkCornel:Asked and answered - exactly the same as Peters proclamation about The Lord Jesus Christ. OkCornel:If by all text you mean all Christian type text, or all claimed holy text I don't know, and from a gospel perspective I don't believe I need to. OkCornel:I see the error here as thinking all truth means "everything about everything". The angel proclaimed to Zacharias whom he was and how he "stood in the presence of God" and had been sent. Now, I suppose that through time, there have been numerous instructions from God to Angel Gabriel and a number of significant events as a result. Do I need to be led into the truth of them all? Do I as a gospel believer, as a Christian need to see the meeting minutes. Will they be in any way instructive or guide my walk? Your use of "ALL TRUTH" is nebulous at best Substantiate what import this usage has, if any, with real detail. OkCornel:Kindly read through to verse 15, there are clearly parameters to what the "all" consisted of. And as always, you are invited to show otherwise. OkCornel:I shouldn't have to, but for expediencies sake; The NT canon is essentially the life of he Lord and the acts and experience of the Apostles. When The Lord was here on earth and when the Apostles were around the canon was essentially with us (and being played out, filmed in a sense) but not all written. Those who could refute the heresy with direct testimony where as it were, on ground. Now they are not and we have a completed canon. This is no longer that very specific apostolic and foundation era. OkCornel:1. Yes 2. Indeed, I woul dthat you would first show how we witness to those claiming to be "modern day apostles. As for the gifts and fruit, Again yes. Indeed the gifts for the church are clearly outlined and the fruits are evidentiary/testing tools I don't mistake anything. My point is that the written truth of the gospel is sufficient for the Christian apprehension of Gods redemptive purpose in Christ Jesus. OkCornel:I was being polite calling you over-sabi . And kind when I term this another unsubstantiated statement OkCornel:No I haven't. I am asking you to demonstrate your claim to unwritten truth. Specifically where it materially alters the gospel. Either by yourself or one of "the modern day apostles" you bear witness to. This should not be too onerous and present an end to all discussion . OkCornel:For your individual walk with God, by all means go direct - that is my byword. But for family of potentially billions, separated by a number of things, how would you present a unified message to them all? What nation has a leader who alone knows the constitution and presents it to each citizen individually? OkCornel:As you please OkCornel:And the guidance that The Holy Spirit gave was scriptural references. The leading into the wilderness was about The Lords personal mission. Are all believers required to go into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil as part of their walks? OkCornel:1. Really . Let me put it like this - when I am physically present with my wife, I am not reading the letters she has written me 2. The pre-flood patriarchs lived vast ages. There was much generational overlap and there would have been a strong oral tradition. From the beginning, the presence and knowledge of God was real and known. Adam communed with God and all his immediate descendants would have learnt about this. They couldn't not know who God was. Even Cain and Abel conversed directly? They understood what led to the post-fall state. See, I read non-canonical writings and appreciate some non-scriptural truths, hoping to glean insights that can be woven together . Unless you have something that clearly demonstrates the truth of your assertions, I believe we are all but done here. I possibly have a further note on some of my observations here and that should be it for me. I no get stamina for 80 pagers again jor. Cheers TV 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 11:56am On Sep 09, 2019 |
Lol TV01, lemme summarize something to you. Truth whether written or unwritten complements one another...rather than contradict it. I am not against the gospel. It is the truth. Any progressive revelation outside of the scriptures ( capped at Revelation in most Bibles carried around today) inconsistent with the Holy Spirit and the Gospel of Salvation and the Kingdom of God is heresy. A very basic example of unwritten truth are prophecies spoken in our time and in Nigeria for example that came to pass. Revelations on solutions to problems gotten via dreams. Are these not truths simply because they are not written black and white in the Bible? I will address your response later today (after working hours) , because it seems you imply unwritten truth counters written truth from all my responses all the while. The source of all TRUTH remains the Spirit of God... irrespective of how that TRUTH exists either written or unwritten. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 2:45pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
jesusjnr:Be quiet Nicolai, be quiet. 2 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 2:47pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
OkCornel:Yes, and I can see how you're evading TV's questions. Do you even understand his questions? Him dey talk another thing, you dey respond to another thing. 3 Likes |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 2:53pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Don't shake it too hard. The guy is dead anyways. 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 2:57pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
michaelkaroh:Ah, who be shaman? |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Anas09: 2:57pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
jeraw:lol 1 Like |
Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by OkCornel(m): 3:38pm On Sep 09, 2019 |
Anas09: Because you are being willfully blind to my responses. Just as you have been willfully blind to the testimonies on this thread. After all, you earlier stated you only read posts you are mentioned in, rather than all the updates on this thread. And also evasive on the matters below; 1. Going to watch the video of an ex-satanist exposing the secrets of darkness...yet turning around to castigate the OP on the same matter, after encouraging him initially to do so (screenshot 1). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAe19Jn0UU 2. The blasphemy of your mentor below (screenshot 2); 2 Likes 1 Share
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