₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
(1) You've rightly defined the TRUTH by saying "it shouldn't have versions", meaning all those claiming they have the TRUTH must be in agreement! Where you missed it slightly is the PROGRESSIVE understanding of God's word, Jesus said God's word is TRUTH{John 17:17}, No generation of God's servants is equal in the understanding of his words and purposes with their predecessors! At Exodus 6:2-3, God told Moses "I dealt with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but they never knew me by my name". Of course Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew God's name but it's his purposes that they never understood as what he is about to display with Moses!
Before Christianity came God told Daniel (a faithful prophet) that the prophesy he is penning down is NOT FOR HIS GENERATION to understand so Daniel shouldn't bother to peer into such deep things! Daniel 12:8-13

Please are all these people worshiping the same God? Then how come they aren't expected to have the same understanding?

In the first century this same Jesus said something in the presence of his 12 Apostles, what he said was misunderstood by all the first century Christians, most people believed that Apostle John will not die until Jesus return {John 21:20-23} surely this misconception came from the Apostles who were the ONLY ones present when Jesus made this statement. It was at 98 ad after John had written the Bible book of Revelation that God's holy spirit directed him to pen down his own gospel account so that he could use that medium to correct the misconception.
Jesus uttered that statement around 33 ad and the correction came around 98 ad, now how many do you think would have carried that wrong idea to their graves?

(2) You rightly quoted a verse that's noteworthy!
(Matthew 24:45) Here the faithful and discrete slave is to continue giving Jesus' domestics their portion of food AT THE PROPER TIME! So what should be expected if you're feeding your domestics properly? Definitely they should be well fed and performing their normal duties!
I think the Watchtower's performance in this respect is excellent considering the manner adherents are zealously, industriously and joyously preaching and teaching people in their neighborhood the message of God's Kingdom globally!

(3) I told you initially that Charles and his team never got the clear picture of what will happen in 1914, but world war 1 is enough evidence that something happened in heaven that year! {Revelations 12:7-12} So Charles and his team surely saw something coming in 1914 through their thorough research, just as watchmen on the Watchtower will see something coming in the dark but they never got the clear picture!

(4)Charles never intended forming another religion, all he was doing back then was to find the one and only true Christian group and work with them. But since most religion back then are not ready for PROGRESSIVE understanding of God's purposes, Charles and few other men came together and continue on their research, until what we now have today. That's i told you that Jehovah's Witnesses have that heritage of PROGRESSIVE understanding so don't expect us to be stagnant in anything but LOVE! 1Corinthians 13:1-13

(5) Hmmmmmmmmm please you've been asking questions like a sincere observer, don't mix things up by turning around to deceit!
We are talking of a group known for their house to house evangelizing GLOBALLY, you and i know that if you ask people from all the parts of the earth regarding this, the only answer we will get consistently is JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

The point I can deduce from your response are two:

(1) You claim JWs are the only group that do house to house preaching.... But that's not true. Long before Watch tower came into existence Christian missionaries brought Christianity to the most distant part of the earth including Africa. Today JWs are not the only bible preachers, the fact JWs refuse to adapt to modern communication technology in dissemination of the gospel does not grant them any approval. To make it clearer, JWs have a website (jw.org), a lovely mobile app, and use of projectors in kingdom halls, but for some reason unknown to many, they tactfully avoid use of TV stations, radio stations and newspapers just to stick to the door to door preaching?

I call that hypocrisy (just like the Pharisees in Jesus's day who like to pray in street corners while putting on the appearance of godliness) because of the manner in which your preaching work is done, your leaders make every witness register the number of hours they go out there preaching, they even go as far as making it appear like a competition among members to show off by reporting many hours per month. These records don't end up in kingdom halls, they go as far as the branch offices and even up to your HQ in America.

Why appraise people on earth for doing God's work when the bible made it clear in Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be (KJV). Is the governing body (a word that can't be found in the bible) now having to power to keep record of people's work to reward them in some way?

That is the reason why your so called preaching work is an eye service activity to please elders and governing body and other members in order to appear godly and just.

(2) the second point I can deduce is the idea of progressive understanding of scriptures. Can you at least support this theory with scriptures? And does this apply to only JWs and not others? Because since your understanding is progressive as you claim, how come you can't give non JWs benefit of doubt that their doctrines are also progressive? If you can't apply this progressive understanding to all doctrines then that's a double standard.

maximunimpact:
The point I can deduce from your response are two:

(1) You claim JWs are the only group that do house to house preaching.... But that's not true. Long before Watch tower came into existence Christian missionaries brought Christianity to the most distant part of the earth including Africa. Today JWs are not the only bible preachers, the fact JWs refuse to adapt to modern communication technology in dissemination of the gospel does not grant them any approval. To make it clearer, JWs have a website (jw.org), a lovely mobile app, and use of projectors in kingdom halls, but for some reason unknown to many, they tactfully avoid use of TV stations, radio stations and newspapers just to stick to the door to door preaching?

I call that hypocrisy (just like the Pharisees in Jesus's day who like to pray in street corners while putting on the appearance of godliness) because of the manner in which your preaching work is done, your leaders make every witness register the number of hours they go out there preaching, they even go as far as making it appear like a competition among members to show off by reporting many hours per month. These records don't end up in kingdom halls, they go as far as the branch offices and even up to your HQ in America.

Why appraise people on earth for doing God's work when the bible made it clear in Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be (KJV). Is the governing body (a word that can't be found in the bible) now having to power to keep record of people's work to reward them in some way?

That is the reason why your so called preaching work is an eye service activity to please elders and governing body and other members in order to appear godly and just.

(2) the second point I can deduce is the idea of progressive understanding of scriptures. Can you at least support this theory with scriptures? And does this apply to only JWs and not others? Because since your understanding is progressive as you claim, how come you can't give non JWs benefit of doubt that their doctrines are also progressive? If you can't apply this progressive understanding to all doctrines then that's a double standard.

Well the records were to keep everything well DOCUMENTED as God's people always do in times past, that's how we have the Bible today!
As for the house to house evangelizing work, if you feel others are doing the same it's OK, i'm sure people out there know those coming to visit them UNINVITED IN THEIR HOMES in God's name! Romans 10:13-15 compared to Malachi 3:16-18

We are also making technological advancements but we must TEACH by examples {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} this means as teachers of God's word our students need to learn by watching and imitating us in doing God's will! Hebrew 13:7

Progressive understanding of God's word shouldn't be taken as a crime, yet there must be a distinction between God's people and unbelievers.
Whenever i hear people complain about Jehovah's Witnesses and their prophecies i just pity them, because Jesus said "NO SIGN WILL BE GIVEN TO THIS GENERATION EXCEPT THE SIGN OF JONAH" Matthew 16:4

Jesus repeated this same statement more than three times!
So i carefully studied the story of Jonah. This prophet was sent to deliver a message of doom on Nineveh, he first ran away but after spending three day in the belly of a whale Jonah returned to deliver the message but what Jonah prophesy didn't happen until much later WHEN JONAH THE PROPHET IS NO MORE!
Jehovah's Witnesses declared dates yet thousands are getting baptized as their members on yearly bases, so the question that comes to my mind is "if these people's prophecy had come in an earlier DATE, what would have happened to millions who later join them in zealously preaching and teaching globally now be?"

The Bible book of Jonah ended with JEHOVAH'S question saying "how do you expect me to bring the destruction upon this people in the DATE I TOLD YOU after seeing the way they repented?"

My conclusion: The DATES may be real and may not but one thing is sure, God's Kingdom is coming just as Jesus proclaimed almost 2000 years ago, and Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully gathered OBEDIENT, PEACE LOVING, FAITHFUL, MILD TEMPERED, GENTLE, and EVER JOYFUL people from different races all over the earth in anticipation of that Kingdom, whereas all the other religions are thinking they're all going to heaven! Psalms 37:7-11, 29 compared to Proverbs 2:20-22

God bless you Sir!

maximunimpact:
The point I can deduce from your response are two:

(1) You claim JWs are the only group that do house to house preaching.... But that's not true. Long before Watch tower came into existence Christian missionaries brought Christianity to the most distant part of the earth including Africa. Today JWs are not the only bible preachers, the fact JWs refuse to adapt to modern communication technology in dissemination of the gospel does not grant them any approval. To make it clearer, JWs have a website (jw.org), a lovely mobile app, and use of projectors in kingdom halls, but for some reason unknown to many, they tactfully avoid use of TV stations, radio stations and newspapers just to stick to the door to door preaching?

I call that hypocrisy (just like the Pharisees in Jesus's day who like to pray in street corners while putting on the appearance of godliness) because of the manner in which your preaching work is done, your leaders make every witness register the number of hours they go out there preaching, they even go as far as making it appear like a competition among members to show off by reporting many hours per month. These records don't end up in kingdom halls, they go as far as the branch offices and even up to your HQ in America.

Why appraise people on earth for doing God's work when the bible made it clear in Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be (KJV). Is the governing body (a word that can't be found in the bible) now having to power to keep record of people's work to reward them in some way?

That is the reason why your so called preaching work is an eye service activity to please elders and governing body and other members in order to appear godly and just.

(2) the second point I can deduce is the idea of progressive understanding of scriptures. Can you at least support this theory with scriptures? And does this apply to only JWs and not others? Because since your understanding is progressive as you claim, how come you can't give non JWs benefit of doubt that their doctrines are also progressive? If you can't apply this progressive understanding to all doctrines then that's a double standard.

And this your post up there is what one should call MAXIMUMIMPACT. .......


........To make it clearer, JWs have a website (jw.org), a lovely mobile app, and use of projectors in kingdom halls, but for some reason unknown to many, they tactfully avoid use of TV stations, radio stations and newspapers just to stick to the door to door preaching?

Maximumimpact: Why appraise people on earth for doing God's work.

Achorladey: it's not appraisal ALONE. it's a CONTROL MECHANISM as well as a TOOL in CHECKING SPIRITUALITY and INTEGRITY of ADHERENTS.


Maximumimpact: Because since your understanding is PROGRESSIVE as you claim, how come you can't give non JWs benefit of doubt that their doctrines are also progressive?

Achorladey: Keyword "PROGRESSIVE UNDERSTANDING" a question well DIRECTED TOO.

Maximus69:
Well the records were to keep everything well DOCUMENTED as God's people always do in times past, that's how we have the Bible today!
As for the house to house evangelizing work, if you feel others are doing the same it's OK, i'm sure people out there know those coming to visit them UNINVITED IN THEIR HOMES in God's name! Romans 10:13-15 compared to Malachi 3:16-18

We are also making technological advancements but we must TEACH by examples {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} this means as teachers of God's word our students need to learn by watching and imitating us in doing God's will! Hebrew 13:7

Progressive understanding of God's word shouldn't be taken as a crime, yet there must be a distinction between God's people and unbelievers.
Whenever i hear people complain about Jehovah's Witnesses and their prophecies i just pity them, because Jesus said "NO SIGN WILL BE GIVEN TO THIS GENERATION EXCEPT THE SIGN OF JONAH" Matthew 16:4

Jesus repeated this same statement more than three times!
So i carefully studied the story of Jonah. This prophet was sent to deliver a message of doom on Nineveh, he first ran away but after spending three day in the belly of a whale Jonah returned to deliver the message but what Jonah prophesy didn't happen until much later WHEN JONAH THE PROPHET IS NO MORE!
Jehovah's Witnesses declared dates yet thousands are getting baptized as their members on yearly bases, so the question that comes to my mind is "if these people's prophecy had come in an earlier DATE, what would have happened to millions who later join them in zealously preaching and teaching globally now be?"

The Bible book of Jonah ended with JEHOVAH'S question saying "how do you expect me to bring the destruction upon this people in the DATE I TOLD YOU after seeing the way they repented?"

My conclusion: The DATES may be real and may not but one thing is sure, God's Kingdom is coming just as Jesus proclaimed almost 2000 years ago, and Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully gathered OBEDIENT, PEACE LOVING, FAITHFUL, MILD TEMPERED, GENTLE, and EVER JOYFUL people from different races all over the earth in anticipation of that Kingdom, whereas all the other religions are thinking they're all going to heaven! Psalms 37:7-11, 29 compared to Proverbs 2:20-22

God bless you Sir!

How I wish you REALLY UNDERSTAND the " THE SIGN OF JONAH" as it relates with the SIGN of THE SON OF MAN.

achorladey:
How I wish you REALLY UNDERSTAND the "THE SIGN OF JONAH" as it relates with the SIGN of THE SON OF MAN.

Jesus uttered this statement when the Jew were confused about what to do, whether to continue with their former religious beliefs or to JOIN Jesus and his group?

Jonah was sent to a foreign pagan nation who knew NOTHING about God's laws, these people have their own Gods and prophets (priests) who supposed to give them timely information about what God requires from humans, when Jonah entered their city to proclaim a message of doom, their priests supposed to refute what he was saying but they feared saying "he is from Israel, their God can fight his own battle without a military"

After Jesus' death and resurrection, many Jews began realising that their God is no more in support of the worship going on in their Temple but now operates in the midst of Jesus' followers (Christians)

So the understanding of the sign of Jonah is not confusing Sir, it's a sign to help honest hearted Jews RECOGNISE the group practicing pure worship in the first century!

maximunimpact:
The Watch Tower have a habit of stretching the scriptures to suite whatever plan they have, first they overstretched Nebuchadnezzar's dream to mean more than his 7yrs madness which landed the sect into the 1914 controversy, till date that has become their biggest error.

Secondly they read more into Jesus's words (Matthew 24:34 [King James Bible]
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.) to the Jews concerning the Roman invasion that ended the Jewish nation in the first century, every bible student understands that to mean the invasion will happen while the generation listening to the sermon are still alive.

The Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed much of the Temple in Jerusalem fulfilled Jesus's prophesy, but just like the Watch Tower read more into Nebuchadnezzar's dream, they also made same mistake twice by over stretching the scripture which always put them into thesame mess, which is: "the 1914 controversy"

Revelation 22:18 says: [King James Bible]
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Clearly the over zealous men in your organisation have added to the scriptures more than once which means they'll receive their plague in due time.

The only defense most of JWs have to justify their doctrines is the fact they claim to be the only group going door to door to preach, but what good does it do for Christ to go house to house teaching errors?

The Watch Tower checks all the boxes of a false prophet which is: consistently lying and trying to cover up with another lie

maximumimpact: "the 1914 controversy"

Achorladey: The above catch my attention and in essence the summary of what you are TRYING to PASS across is the BELOW........

This" means THIS. I think we all know what "this" means. This does not mean "that". Nor does it mean 'those'. I could own several houses, and I do, but if I was in the house in particular in which I reside, and I was speaking to a realtor about selling "this" house, would the realtor come to believe that I intend to sell one of my other houses? Or perhaps several of my other houses? (thank you overlapping houses teaching)
I think not.

When Jesus said "this generation" he meant what he said. To hear individuals or organizations try to twist that simple phrase into a dark hole to suit their inclination for fairytale myths is saddening.

Jesus said "this generation " not 'that generation' or 'those generations' and "this generation" was his own generation. History demonstrates his words were true.

Maximus69:
Jesus uttered this statement when the Jew were confused about what to do, whether to continue with their former religious beliefs or to JOIN Jesus and his group?

Jonah was sent to a foreign pagan nation who knew NOTHING about God's laws, these people have their own Gods and prophets (priests) who supposed to give them timely information about what God requires from humans, when Jonah entered their city to proclaim a message of doom, their priests supposed to refute what he was saying but they feared saying "he is from Israel, their God can fight his own battle without a military"

After Jesus' death and resurrection, many Jews began realising that their God is no more in support of the worship going on in their Temple but now operates in the midst of Jesus' followers (Christians)

So the understanding of the sign of Jonah is not confusing Sir, it's a sign to help honest hearted Jews RECOGNISE the group practicing pure worship in the first century!

My point clearly made, I wish you understand WHAT the SIGN of JONAH is as it relates with the SIGN of the SON of MAN.

Concerning whether it's CONFUSING or NOT is not my point of DISCUSSION.

achorladey:
My point clearly made, I wish you understand WHAT the SIGN of JONAH is as it relates with the SIGN of the SON of MAN.

Concerning whether it's CONFUSING or NOT is not my point of DISCUSSION.

SIGN to help honest hearted observers IDENTIFY the GROUP whose worship has gained divine approval!

Maximus69:
(1)The Watchtower have made it open to all members of the organization that "they are infallible so they can make mistakes in organizational directions". That means if you're a member of this organization, you should be alert to the changes so that when all the members globally get timely information regarding what we were taught initially that must be readjusted, all members switch to the new understanding.
So it's none members that are complaining outside the camp NOT those inside the camp fully prepared to take instructions!
(2)Based on what i explained in the first response, the Watchtower needed not such because all members are aware that new instructions can come anytime to invalidate the old order.
So who are those demanding apology from the Watchtower, bonafide members fully prepared to welcome new developments or none members who never thought of obeying instructions given to members of the Watchtower?

Maximus69: So it's NONE MEMBERS that are complaining outside the camp NOT those inside the camp fully prepared to take instructions!



Achorladey: "OUR READERS ASK" those QUESTIONS raised in the watchtower study editions are RAISED and ASKED by WHO? Atleast you know it's not MEANT for the PUBLIC?

Maximus69:
SIGN to help honest hearted observers IDENTIFY the GROUP whose worship has gained divine approval!

Oga don't worry yourself about attempting to answer it. It has NOTHING to do WITH your GROUP THINKING.

maximunimpact:
(1) John 8:32 reads: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free [King James Bible] Mark the phrase “the truth”…. Which means truth cannot have versions, something like “NEW development” to the truth as you put it. If truth changes like you want people to accept, what then will happen to those who believed and died in your “former understanding”? You said “the Watchtower family have declared themselves as NOT inspired”, but they still maintain that they’re the faithful and discrete slave Jesus talked about, who provides spiritual meal in due season. If these same faithful slave(s) have been wrong in their previous understanding of the scripture which have necessitated the “new light”, how can you prove the current understanding is in fact the truth?

(2) The generation doctrine has been “reviewed” more than 10 times since 1975, As early as the mid 1960's, the Watchtower had strongly suggested that the 1914 generation would end by the Fall of 1975, this is 2019 and Armageddon is yet to happen. Isn’t that enough reason to discard the whole idea that “That is why this case needed extra care to handle”? (Quoting your eloquence). Not all prophesies need human interpretation, especially the ones no one can predict, like the Armageddon the Watch Tower have consistently failed in all their predictions with regards to DATE.

(3) World war 1 was never what Pastor Charles Tazz Russel predicted to happen in 1914, what he predicted was Armageddon – the end of the present system of things! Obviously that didn’t happen and when the war broke out, he and his fellow travelers quickly held onto it as a significant event to validate their publications and predictions. The world war war was a coincidence at best – it was equally followed by the more devastating world war II, why did the watch tower not make a big deal from that too? A gain notice how it was convenient for the watch tower to hold onto the acclaimed invisible presence of Christ in 1914 and the invisible ousting of Satan from heaven, why would anyone believe that when all predictions that eyes could have seen failed to occur?

(4) The funniest fact about JWs is that everything they accuse “Christendom” of doing is exactly what they end up doing. You said “It's the additions that's causing confusion globally in all the religions claiming Christians, instead of them to come together to resolve what's causing the division (which is the added doctrines) these religionists concluded that they're all DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS of the same religion” - Russell left the Presbyterian Church to join the Congregational Church, he ended up founding an entire religious organization that today claims to be the only “true Christians” on earth. Not to mention the failed predictions over the years which the watch tower says are the characteristics of fake prophets.

(5) You said Jehovah's Witnesses are globally known for their house to house evangelizing, that much is true, but they are not the only group doing that – the following Christian group also do house to house preaching:

• Bible Studies Fellowship, headquarters in San Diego, Ca.
• Bible Way Publications, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
• Christian Millennial Fellowship, Hartford, Conn. Publishes the New Creation magazine.
• Christian Renewal Ministry, Saratoga, Ca.
• Church of God of Abraham, Wenatchee, Wa. Publishes Notes for Bible Students newsletter
• Dawn Bible Students, East Rutherford, N.J. One of the original splinter groups formed after Joseph Rutherford became president.

All these are splinter groups from the watch tower organization.

The DATES highlighted captured my attention and you could add the below to it......



Watchtower August 2019 study edition, study article 1 paragraph 9 has this concerning 1914.......

Postponed expectations. We naturally long for the good things that Jehovah has promised. In fact, when Jehovah’s prophet Habakkuk expressed a yearning for Jehovah to bring an end to the wicked conditions in Judah, Jehovah instructed him to “keep in expectation.” (Hab. 2:3) However, when the fulfillment of our expectations APPEARS to be DELAYED, it may dampen our enthusiasm. We could even lose heart. (Prov. 13:12) This happened at the beginning of the 20th century. At that time, many ANOINTED CHRISTIANS EXPECTED to receive their HEAVENLY reward in 1914. When that did not happen, how did faithful ones deal with their delayed expectations?


one can only ask, who told the ANOINTED CHRISTIANS that they would RECEIVED their HEAVENLY reward in 1914. Who DELAYED their EXPECTATIONS?

achorladey:
Oga don't worry yourself about attempting to answer it. It has NOTHING to do WITH your GROUP THINKING.

SIGN should be for a purpose Sir, SIGNS aren't needed if everyone will grasp something.

So the SIGN mentioned is to help people IDENTIFY or NOTICE something Sir!

My own opinion, it's the GROUP practicing pure worship that God will help honest hearted observers to IDENTIFY/NOTICE/RECOGNISE by a SIGN!

That's why Jesus said no SIGN will be given to a wicked generation. Of course Pharisees asked Jesus to show them a SIGN to prove that God is now using him as a replacement to dispense spiritual food to the Jews!

So whenever you see me discussing with someone, just stay away if you're NOT ready for the TRUTH!

maximunimpact:
at bolded, watch tower have no moral justification to accuse anyone of shallowness in understanding of the scriptures, not even you! Reason is because there's no guarantee your today's understanding will be regarded as truth 10yrs from now even within your organisation....

Typical example below....

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/

Maximus69:
SIGN should be for a purpose Sir, SIGNS aren't needed if everyone will grasp something.

So the SIGN mentioned is to help people IDENTIFY or NOTICE something Sir!

My own opinion, it's the GROUP practicing pure worship that God will help honest hearted observers to IDENTIFY/NOTICE/RECOGNISE by a SIGN!

That's why Jesus said no SIGN will be given to a wicked generation. Of course Pharisees asked Jesus to show them a SIGN to prove that God is now using him as a replacement to dispense spiritual food to the Jews!

So whenever you see me discussing with someone, just stay away if you're NOT ready for the TRUTH!

Maximus69: That's why Jesus said no SIGN will be given to a wicked generation.

Achorladey: I told you earlier, don't worry about trying to ATTEMPT the POSER. Did Jesus give the SIGN to the wicked GENERATION or NOT. You have not attempted that you want to teach me the TRUTH.

Maximus69: So whenever you see me discussing with someone, just stay away if you're NOT ready for the TRUTH

Achorladey: As if there can be any truth GREATER than the CHRIST.

Concerning your TRUTH, are we TALKING about the PRESENT truth, PAST truth or FUTURE truth?

achorladey:
Typical example below....

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/

After your beating about the bush, please don't forget to direct/present/show/tell/point out the GROUP that's teaching you God's word for others to learn from such a GROUP, since you're learning how to apply God's word somewhere too!

All your posts will amount to nothing if at the end you can't tell your audience how to be equally informed like you Sir!

GROUP REALLY MATTERS! Matthew 13:30

achorladey:
Maximus69: That's why Jesus said no SIGN will be given to a wicked generation.

Achorladey: I told you earlier, don't worry about trying to ATTEMPT the POSER. Did Jesus give the SIGN to the wicked GENERATION or NOT. You have not attempted that you want to teach me the TRUTH.

Maximus69: So whenever you see me discussing with someone, just stay away if you're NOT ready for the TRUTH

Achorladey: As if there can be any truth GREATER than the CHRIST.

Concerning your TRUTH, are we TALKING about the PRESENT truth, PAST truth or FUTURE truth?

According to the Bible, God's people have continued to progress in the light of TRUTH {Proverbs 4:18} otherwise John who baptized Jesus wouldn't teach his followers something that Jesus never taught his own followers! Luke 5:33

My question Sir, is it the same God who sent John that also send Jesus?

If so whose idea is past and whose idea is present or future truth, since they're both contemporaries?

Maximus69:
Well the records were to keep everything well DOCUMENTED as God's people always do in times past, that's how we have the Bible today!
As for the house to house evangelizing work, if you feel others are doing the same it's OK, i'm sure people out there know those coming to visit them UNINVITED IN THEIR HOMES in God's name! Romans 10:13-15 compared to Malachi 3:16-18

We are also making technological advancements but we must TEACH by examples {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} this means as teachers of God's word our students need to learn by watching and imitating us in doing God's will! Hebrew 13:7

Progressive understanding of God's word shouldn't be taken as a crime, yet there must be a distinction between God's people and unbelievers.
Whenever i hear people complain about Jehovah's Witnesses and their prophecies i just pity them , because Jesus said "NO SIGN WILL BE GIVEN TO THIS GENERATION EXCEPT THE SIGN OF JONAH" Matthew 16:4

Jesus repeated this same statement more than three times!
So i carefully studied the story of Jonah. This prophet was sent to deliver a message of doom on Nineveh, he first ran away but after spending three day in the belly of a whale Jonah returned to deliver the message but what Jonah prophesy didn't happen until much later WHEN JONAH THE PROPHET IS NO MORE!
Jehovah's Witnesses declared dates yet thousands are getting baptized as their members on yearly bases, so the question that comes to my mind is "if these people's prophecy had come in an earlier DATE, what would have happened to millions who later join them in zealously preaching and teaching globally now be?"

The Bible book of Jonah ended with JEHOVAH'S question saying "how do you expect me to bring the destruction upon this people in the DATE I TOLD YOU after seeing the way they repented?"

My conclusion: The DATES may be real and may not but one thing is sure, God's Kingdom is coming just as Jesus proclaimed almost 2000 years ago, and Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully gathered OBEDIENT, PEACE LOVING, FAITHFUL, MILD TEMPERED, GENTLE, and EVER JOYFUL people from different races all over the earth in anticipation of that Kingdom, whereas all the other religions are thinking they're all going to heaven! Psalms 37:7-11, 29 compared to Proverbs 2:20-22

God bless you Sir!

You always avoid the obvious questions with another spin of a coin... Instead of pitying others, direct it to whoever believes the watch tower have the sole power to interpret scriptures. You haven't supported your progressive understanding of scriptures with any scriptures, instead you have diverted to Jonah. I don't belong to those who seek signs and wonders, besides its still the watch tower that is obsessed with SIGNS of the last days.

Maximus69:
After your beating about the bush, please don't forget to direct/present/show/tell/point out the GROUP that's teaching you God's word for others to learn from such a GROUP, since you're learning how to apply God's word somewhere too!

All your posts will amount to nothing if at the end you can't tell your audience how to be equally informed like you Sir!

GROUP REALLY MATTERS! Matthew 13:30

Hahahahaha, Don't bother yourself anymore about seeking answer to my POSER.

Some of the audience, contributors and many others HERE made me far better in terms of how to REASON well enough. To ju ba farabale daadaa a ri mu.

If your mindset is to MARKET a GROUP na MARKET you come sell, sell it WELL. But some will walk up to you and tell you straight, whatever you think YOU are SELLING I am not BUYING. some came to NAIRALAND not to SELL market they are on the platform SIMPLY for DISCUSSION and they LEARN as they do so.

Jesus didn't MARKET any GROUP, it's CLEAR, I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE. John 14:6....... and not the GROUP is the WAY..........

maximunimpact:
You always avoid the obvious questions with another spin of a coin... Instead of pitying others, direct it to whoever believes the watch tower have the sole power to interpret scriptures. You haven't supported your progressive understanding of scriptures with any scriptures, instead you have diverted to Jonah. I don't belong to those who seek signs and wonders, besides its still the watch tower that is obsessed with SIGNS of the last days.

So if you're truthfully not a seeker of signs and wonders, then you need to focus on the overall performance of each group claiming Christians!

Jesus said BY THEIR FRUIT YOU WILL KNOW THEM, because PEOPLE DON'T GATHER GRAPES FROM THORNS NOR FIGS FROM THISTLES, A GOOD TREE WILL NOT BEAR ROTTEN FRUIT NEITHER WILL A BAD TREE BEAR FINE FRUIT! Matthew 7:16-18

Instead of concentrating on reports that never occurred in your own time, you should be more concerned about what you're SEEING with your own eyes! Matthew 5:14-16

Maximus69:
According to the Bible, God's people have continued to progress in the light of TRUTH {Proverbs 4:18} otherwise John who baptized Jesus wouldn't teach his followers something that Jesus never taught his own followers! Luke 5:33

My question Sir, is it the same God who sent John that also send Jesus?

If so whose idea is past and whose idea is present or future truth, since they're both contemporaries?

Proverbs 4:18 is about the TRUTH getting BRIGHTER?

But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning lightThat grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.

Read that chapter A to Z nothing like truth getting brighter.


Did John not preach about the TRUTH.

Luke 5:33 Hahahahahahah did you read Luke 5:35. I was even thinking it was something related to who CHRIST HIS.

achorladey:
Hahahahaha, Don't bother yourself anymore about seeking answer to my POSER.

Some of the audience, contributors and many others HERE made me far better in terms of how to REASON well enough. To ju ba farabale daadaa a ri mu.

If your mindset is to MARKET a GROUP na MARKET you come sell, sell it WELL. But some will walk up to you and tell you straight, whatever you think YOU are SELLING I am not BUYING. some came to NAIRALAND not to SELL market they are on the platform SIMPLY for DISCUSSION and they LEARN as they do so.

Jesus didn't MARKET any GROUP it's CLEAR, I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE. John 14:6....... and not the GROUP is the WAY..........

Jesus didn't market any GROUP shey?
Please what did he meant by saying "by this all will know that you are my disciples if you have love amongst yourselves" John 13:34-35

"You are the light of the world, a city situated on a hill cannot be hidden" Matthew 5:14

Perhaps he meant there will be NO SPECIFIC GROUP but what is there to IDENTIFY when there is no outstanding GROUP?

achorladey:
Achorladey: The above catch my attention and in essence the summary of what you are TRYING to PASS across is the BELOW........

This" means THIS. I think we all know what "this" means. This does not mean "that". Nor does it mean 'those'. I could own several houses, and I do, but if I was in the house in particular in which I reside, and I was speaking to a realtor about selling "this" house, would the realtor come to believe that I intend to sell one of my other houses? Or perhaps several of my other houses? (thank you overlapping houses teaching)
I think not.

When Jesus said "this generation" he meant what he said. To hear individuals or organizations try to twist that simple phrase into a dark hole to suit their inclination for fairytale myths is saddening.

Jesus said "this generation " not 'that generation' or 'those generations' and "this generation" was his own generation. History demonstrates his words were true.

** Matt 24:3-34,
Achorladey, you too sabi lie lie...
*Matt 24:14, "Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw "the good news of God's kingdom preached in ALL the nations"

**verse30 Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw " all the tribes of the earth beat themselves when they see Jesus coming in a cloud..."

***
vers31,
Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw the angels blow a great trumpet & gather his chosen ones from four corners of the earth"
*** Achorladey wayo man.

Maximus69:
Jesus didn't market any GROUP shey?
Please what did he meant by saying "by this all will know that you are my disciples if you have love amongst yourselves" John 13:34-35

"You are the light of the world, a city situated on a hill cannot be hidden" Matthew 5:14

Perhaps he meant there will be NO SPECIFIC GROUP but what is there to IDENTIFY when there is no outstanding GROUP?

Did you SEE this "MY DISCIPLES" in John 14:6? Is HIS DISCIPLES the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE? Was he MARKETING his DISCIPLES as the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE? Hahahahaha.

Maximus69:
So if you're truthfully not a seeker of signs and wonders, then you need to focus on the overall performance of each group claiming Christians!

Jesus said BY THEIR FRUIT YOU WILL KNOW THEM, because PEOPLE DON'T GATHER GRAPES FROM THORNS NOR FIGS FROM THISTLES, A GOOD TREE WILL NOT BEAR ROTTEN FRUIT NEITHER WILL A BAD TREE BEAR FINE FRUIT! Matthew 7:16-18

Instead of concentrating on reports that never occurred in your own time, you should be more concerned about what you're SEEING with your own eyes! Matthew 5:14-16

Speaking of fruits that prove who is doing God's will on earth today....that's a very tricky matter. The JWs family that tried to convert me is a case study. I don't want to generalise based on few witnesses I have met, but I have this to say:

An average witness girl can easily commit immorality and take in, go for several ABORTIONS but will NEVER take blood transfusion. Do you want to know why? Its because within themselves they try as much as possible to keep the APPEARANCE of godliness. I am talking from experience!

Several others will rather visit witch doctors than seek miracle through prayers, again this is from what I have seen.

Its all about keeping the APPEARANCE! Everyone wants to belong.

Again I don't mean all JWs are like that, but just that they care more about what people will say than living to please God.

maximunimpact:
The point I can deduce from your response are two:

(1) You claim JWs are the only group that do house to house preaching.... But that's not true. Long before Watch tower came into existence Christian missionaries brought Christianity to the most distant part of the earth including Africa. Today JWs are not the only bible preachers, the fact JWs refuse to adapt to modern communication technology in dissemination of the gospel does not grant them any approval. To make it clearer, JWs have a website (jw.org), a lovely mobile app, and use of projectors in kingdom halls, but for some reason unknown to many, they tactfully avoid use of TV stations, radio stations and newspapers just to stick to the door to door preaching?

I call that hypocrisy (just like the Pharisees in Jesus's day who like to pray in street corners while putting on the appearance of godliness) because of the manner in which your preaching work is done, your leaders make every witness register the number of hours they go out there preaching, they even go as far as making it appear like a competition among members to show off by reporting many hours per month. These records don't end up in kingdom halls, they go as far as the branch offices and even up to your HQ in America.

Why appraise people on earth for doing God's work when the bible made it clear in Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be (KJV). Is the governing body (a word that can't be found in the bible) now having to power to keep record of people's work to reward them in some way?

That is the reason why your so called preaching work is an eye service activity to please elders and governing body and other members in order to appear godly and just.

(2) the second point I can deduce is the idea of progressive understanding of scriptures. Can you at least support this theory with scriptures? And does this apply to only JWs and not others? Because since your understanding is progressive as you claim, how come you can't give non JWs benefit of doubt that their doctrines are also progressive? If you can't apply this progressive understanding to all doctrines then that's a double standard.

JWs are the pioneers of using the broadcast media to preach the good news, because you are LYING & deluded, you are not well informed.
In the 1920s ,we did it. Today, we have JW TV broadcast.. we are still doing house to house preaching till tomorrow..

(2). Your point 2 shows that you refused to receive sense even though you read
Luke 19:11. John16:16-18. Luke 24:44,45 in my previous post.
Further proof you have shallow understanding of the holy Scriptures.

Your fallacies here:
"That is the reason why your so called preaching work is an eye service activity to please elders and governing body and other members in order to appear godly and just."

This is proof of your gross disrespect for Jesus Christ preaching ministry (Mark 1:13-15. Luke 4:43,44 "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth". Matt 24:14.
You no know shishi about Jesus Christ.... & his Father. John 17:3.

quirus:
Okay continue to delude yourself with your religion of errors. You also, like Taze Russell (your sect founder), will know better when you get to heaven and the Truth is revealed to you. But by then it will be too late.

Meanwhile before then, why not keep an open mind, shunning sect adherence, and visit spiritlessons.com site. There you will find books of people whom the LORD Himself took to explore Heaven, such as Ann Rountree's "The Heavens Opened" or Rick Joyner's "The Final Quest". Believe me my brother your eyes will become open. More so they are very interesting read for all Christians, where true doctrines were explicitly expounded by the Master Himself.

You claim to know the Truth, yet you are been schooled on how Kjv said holy spirit is an " IT " . do you agree with KJV that holy spirit is an IT ?

maximunimpact:
The Watch Tower have a habit of stretching the scriptures to suite whatever plan they have, first they overstretched Nebuchadnezzar's dream to mean more than his 7yrs madness which landed the sect into the 1914 controversy, till date that has become their biggest error.

Secondly they read more into Jesus's words (Matthew 24:34 [King James Bible]
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.) to the Jews concerning the Roman invasion that ended the Jewish nation in the first century, every bible student understands that to mean the invasion will happen while the generation listening to the sermon are still alive.

The Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed much of the Temple in Jerusalem fulfilled Jesus's prophesy, but just like the Watch Tower read more into Nebuchadnezzar's dream, they also made same mistake twice by over stretching the scripture which always put them into thesame mess, which is: "the 1914 controversy"

Revelation 22:18 says: [King James Bible]
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Clearly the over zealous men in your organisation have added to the scriptures more than once which means they'll receive their plague in due time.

The only defense most of JWs have to justify their doctrines is the fact they claim to be the only group going door to door to preach, but what good does it do for Christ to go house to house teaching errors?

The Watch Tower checks all the boxes of a false prophet which is: consistently lying and trying to cover up with another lie

You are a big liar for saying Jesus statement only refer to roman destruction of Jerusalem. Christ made that statement in verse 34, mr Read from 29-31 , Has those things occur as well ?

I deliberately Underlined the point " Till ALL these things be fulfilled "

Is verse 29-31 not part of the ALL these things ?

achorladey:
maximumimpact: "the 1914 controversy"

Achorladey: The above catch my attention and in essence the summary of what you are TRYING to PASS across is the BELOW........

This" means THIS. I think we all know what "this" means. This does not mean "that". Nor does it mean 'those'. I could own several houses, and I do, but if I was in the house in particular in which I reside, and I was speaking to a realtor about selling "this" house, would the realtor come to believe that I intend to sell one of my other houses? Or perhaps several of my other houses? (thank you overlapping houses teaching)
I think not.

When Jesus said "this generation" he meant what he said. To hear individuals or organizations try to twist that simple phrase into a dark hole to suit their inclination for fairytale myths is saddening.

Jesus said "this generation " not 'that generation' or 'those generations' and "this generation" was his own generation. History demonstrates his words were true.

And did the generation of Jesus day experience verse 29-31 ??

Janosky:
** Matt 24:3-34,
Achorladey, you too sabi lie lie...
*Matt 24:14, "Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw "the good news of God's kingdom preached in ALL the nations"

**verse30 Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw " all the tribes of the earth beat themselves when they see Jesus coming in a cloud..."

***
vers31,
Jesus said "this generation of Jesus own " that saw the angels blow a great trumpet & gather his chosen ones from four corners of the earth"
*** Achorladey wayo man.

Thumb's up

maximunimpact:
Speaking of fruits that prove who is doing God's will on earth today....that's a very tricky matter. The JWs family that tried to convert me is a case study. I don't want to generalise based on few witnesses I have met, but I have this to say:

An average witness girl can easily commit immorality and take in, go for several ABORTIONS but will NEVER take blood transfusion. Do you want to know why? Its because within themselves they try as much as possible to keep the APPEARANCE of godliness. I am talking from experience!

Several others will rather visit witch doctors than seek miracle through prayers, again this is from what I have seen.

Its all about keeping the APPEARANCE! Everyone wants to belong.

Again I don't mean all JWs are like that, but just that they care more about what people will say than living to please God.

Any JW who choose to "chop & clean mouth" ,so to speak, is simply deceiving him/her self.
Nobody can mock Jehovah's standards Galatians 6:7.

JWs discipline unrepentant ones , you know that very well (1 Cor 5:1-13), unlike the iniquity being covered up by your Pastorpreneurs you pay membership fees to..
that one the wife divorced, till tomorrow none of una get liver ask am to proof his innocence to the former wife's allegations against him....
(Prophet Nathan no call David to account for his sin ?)
The guy man still maintains official business policy of separation of his junior pastorpreneurs from their wives and family, dey carry on him side attraction,nothing mega...
Yet una get "Independent thinking".... Bunch of slaves in bondage !!

quirus:
No. Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is a living being and the personal Spirit of the ALMIGHTY GOD. Though invisible, even in the Heaven, but you can feel his presence when he is near. I have felt his presence many times and it is
sweet.

The "it" used in Rm.8:26 ("Spirit itself maketh intersection for us" is just English semantics or grammatical usage. Remember the "Spirit" was written in capital letter throughout the book, indicating that he lives.

Going further, in Rm.8:27 "he" was used for the same Spirit ("what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints".

Like I said it was just semantics.

The third person wey David no see (Ps 110:1,2).
* Stephen the martyr no see am..
Acts 7:56
* Peter no see am... 1Peter 3:22.
Paul no see am. Colossians 3:1
Na where 'it' go,Jesus Christ no see am? Matt 22:43. Mark12:36

maximunimpact:
In that case you are d ignorant fellow here, u fell for some bunch of Americans who told u they were selected as faithful and desecrate slave in 1919 based on Jesus coming in 1914 which never happened. Who is ignorant here?

All are figment as none of what you said was true. Jesus coming cannot be predicted by anyone. Neither was. It predicted for 1914. Read your Bible and meditate on it daily and wisdom will come. Don't depend too much on pastors and false prophets who only preach sensationality to force money out of your pocket. Only for the wise.