You are welcome to your opinions, it's been nice engaging in this discussion. I see you came prepared to debate, which is a good thing. You might have been practising for a while.

I trust we all learned something. If not, well it's a free world.

I could return to the thread later, dunno. I do suspect you are not Yoruba, but if you insist you are, then I should take you at your word until proven otherwise.

yes, I am tpiar, justaposed ids because I opened a thread with the other one. Sometimes the nairaland server limits topics, rather worrisome but it is what it is.

Tell me if "OMO" (CHILD) is a loanword because its constituent parts has no obvious meaning to you.

What about "OJÚ" (EYE(s)), IMÚ" (NOSE), etc. among uncountable others.

Check the meaning of noun, it's not different in English than it is in Yoruba. Describing body parts is not applicable to your argument because you keep bringing in unrelated words and issues that derail the discussion. It's like jumping everywhere without a solid base.

If you say idi (buttocks) should be an indigenous word as opposed to a loan word, on what basis are you making your claim? Are you saying you dont believe Yorubas can come up with words of their own making in a scientifically acceptable context such as naming body parts?

I did not say every Yoruba word can or should be broken into constituent parts, I said a test to determine the foreign-ness or otherwise of a word can be applied by breaking it into smaller units for analysis.

Do you understand what I am saying? Dont just argue for argument's sake or because you were being hailed by your friends.

Actually think about things.

But, since you seem to be a typical nler, I am not surprised. The arguments always tend to be circular and restricted in scope.

y3mi:
Na wa OK!

No be small thing.

The content of this thread, just as hundred like it on this forum, is terribly uninformed and therefore misleading.

I am not in the mood to start typing lengthy arguments to debunk many of the distortions stated here.

Let me summon a historical daemon; macof s_b_gos

You shouldn't be dissapointed, you should be discomfitted! A true scholar who genuinely seeks to understand, and share by discuss an opinion about the protology of their ancestral history should know better than to stay clear off external sources whose view are generally bias and demeaning and set to out to debase the most ancient and surviving civilization of the human race: the Yoruba Karøójirés'. The more reason one must lean on their vast oracular compendium of all human history, culture, language, science, philosophy, technology etc: Ifá.


@bolded:

Same people who for a long time coming have been and are still heavily influenced by the Judeo-Islamic cosmogony molded from Abrahamic mytheology and lecturers whose interpretations reeks of bias traced to their Islamic and Christian leanings. So I dare say Fvck 'em both.

Ifá remains the only true source to learn, confirm, verify the authenticity of claims, stated or written by anyone. And only from the real Babalawos not from any of the many fake and religion affected ones who are inclined to dilute their explanations with mentioning of words, terms, places associated with Christianity and Islam just to appeal to their clients, students or pupils.

First of all it is called kootuojire and not kaarojire, many of you claim to know but still don't know. Does the religion some one picks distort his history...

macof:


I have suspected this for a few years now but would still do some research on it to get some assurance for this theory. Or do you have some more information on this?

Because Okanbi is not known in Ife but seems to be a popular name in Oyo

Please visit Ile Ife, to have a balanced authentic history of Ogun/Okanbi... Yorubas are notorious of starting stories that never happened in other to spite other kings and towns especially during war. These stories when spread for too long is now accepted by descendants of the creators as history

nlPoster:


Awosonmo is ancient Yoruba, ofurufu is recent Yoruba.

And no , it does not appear to be a loan word since it is descriptive (skin or cover of the expanse).

It's like saying oorun (sun) is from Horus. Or osan (afternoon) was derived from the English word sun. Also note oorun/oru meaning sun and darkness, both referring to the condition of the sky. And also included in Y oru ba.

Awo in Yoruba typically applies to ancient secrets eg wizard, skin, cover, conceal, etc in certain contexts.

A word like alubosa could be considered a loan word since you cannot break it into constituent parts, it would have no meaning.

I concur slightly but at times,most of you did underestimated ancient Yoruba people because a lot of people thought Yoruba borrowed words largely from others while ignorantly ridiculed the Yoruba lexicon. There is no iota of doubt that some limited words are loaned word into Yoruba language while some developed at point in time alongside in history.

However, Alubosa or abosa isn't loaned from Hausa lexicon into Yoruba lexicon because this is a word that came from Near East. Interestingly, Islam existed in Yoruba land before Hausa were indoctrinated to Arabic language . Thus, Albosa,Alibosa,Alubosa,Abosa is indigenous to Yoruba people through their migration to their present abode.

Do you also know name like, ‘Dodo' is also a name in Near East from Ancient Semitic language known as dod? Dodmeans; beloved, in Semitic ! Did Yoruba also borrowed this word from Semitic language?

Apart from Ancient Semitic people, The Arab dont use this name and so also Hausa people don't use this name either ! The Arabic name ‘dawud' and Hebrew's ḏā·w·yiḏ /dā·wiḏ dā·wîḏ/ ḏā·wiḏ /ḏā·wîḏ / dā·wîḏ- /daVid dāwiḏ dāwîḏ /ḏāwiḏ /ḏāwîḏ /dāwîḏ/- ḏāwyiḏ is also in Yoruba lexicon as dawaodu,Daodu, Dauda and most times, people interchange it with Odudawa! This name was anglicised as ‘David' through transliteration and translation?

Horus(Egypt),Ooru/Oru (Yoruba), Ore ( ancient Hebrew) can actually developed alongside once the meaning is cognate.The last two are absolute cognate), while Horus is a godman in ancient Egypt. In the same vein Ra; Ram headed man(Egypt),era( Yoruba's name for ram or herds) can also developed alongside.In the same vein to bleed Yoruba(sheje) is also blood in some European languages such as French(sang ),Italian(sangue),Portuguesesangue). Did Yoruba loaned this word too? The point here is that don't underestimate Yoruba's glorious fit in the ancient era.

tpiar:
Your posts are too lengthy for me to want to analyze in detail, so I just pick points here and there to respond to.



Afefe is recent because an older Yoruba word for wind is ategun.

One easy way to guess which words are recent and which are not likely to be loaned are break it down into it's constituent parts and see if it still has a meaning.

Afefe (fluff) is difficult to explain in Yoruba because it's a whole word and has vowels inserted between the consonants, meaning it could be a loan word from another language.

Ategun on the other hand, is descriptive (remember this is important because most subsaharan Africans do not have a written language therefore they store their history via oratory, among other things. You can analyze ategun (wind) by breaking it into smaller units and it still makes sense. Ate could be to step or we step (on), referring to the far reaches of the wind which goes everywhere. Long refers to the same. Te can mean spread as in a long or wide spread.

The clusters of ofurufu, afefe, efulefu and fluff which all have similar descriptive contexts (wind, emptiness, etc), indicates the Yoruba words are recent additions. Recent could mean anything up to 200 years, minus or plus.

I wonder if you actually post the root word and descriptive word of Ategun. While, I will do justiceto,Afefe is!

Afe-fe ( that which is movement of atmospheric air).

As far as I am concern with my knowledge on ancient inscription, Yoruba had written ideograms. Kindly don't compare Yoruba people's written language and subsahara.
Please, answer these questions:

1.Can you show me any ethnic group Subsahara Africa that has nails inserted on Ivory?

2.Can you interprete what the Ivory in Ileife ,known as Opa Oranmiya?

3.Can you interprete Opa Ogun?

4.Can interpret the Eyes found in Ore grove ?

5. Can you interpret Bronze Sculpture of 12th century Ooni holding the horn of a ram on his hand?

Kindly compare the meaning with Subsahara ethnic Africans, Kemt(Egypt), Amun(Amon) alongside Near East to see clearer! I rest my case

cbrass:


First of all it is called kootuojire and not kaarojire, many of you claim to know but still don't know. Does the religion some one picks distort his history...

Na wa oooo! Omo Kaaro O jire has become Kootu ojire? What dialect is that?

nlPoster:
You are welcome to your opinions, it's been nice engaging in this discussion. I see you came prepared to debate, which is a good thing. You might have been practising for a while.

I trust we all learned something. If not, well it's a free world.

I could return to the thread later, dunno. I do suspect you are not Yoruba, but if you insist you are, then I should take you at your word until proven otherwise.

yes, I am tpiar, justaposed ids because I opened a thread with the other one. Sometimes the nairaland server limits topics, rather worrisome but it is what it is.

I am presenting factual information before you not my opinion or anyone else's.

And you're very funny about a lot of things here like me coming prepared for you, having been practicing, or even not being Yoruba. Lol.

I guess someone found me a new cultural identity ... I can't wait to hear from you, sir, what my latest cultural identity is.

TAO11:


I am presenting factual information before you not my opinion or anyone else's.

And you're very funny about a lot of things here like me coming prepared, having been practicing, or even not being Yoruba. Lol.

I guess someone found me a new cultural identity ... I can't wait to hear from you, sir, what my latest cultural identity is.

I did not say I had anything to do with your preparations.

I said you came prepared to debate. Nothing to do with me.

nlPoster:


Check the meaning of noun, it's not different in English than it is in Yoruba. Describing body parts is not applicable to your argument because you keep bringing in unrelated words and issues that derail the discussion. It's like jumping everywhere without a solid base.

If you say idi (buttocks) should be an indigenous word as opposed to a loan word, on what basis are you making your claim? Are you saying you dont believe Yorubas can come up with words of their own making in a scientifically acceptable context such as naming body parts?

I did not say every Yoruba word can or should be broken into constituent parts, I said a test to determine the foreign-ness or otherwise of a word can be applied by breaking it into smaller units for analysis.

Do you understand what I am saying? Dont just argue for argument's sake or because you were being hailed by your friends.

Actually think about things.

But, since you seem to be a typical nler, I am not surprised. The arguments always tend to be circular and restricted in scope.

You keep making up strange grammatical and linguistic rules as you go.

You had made up a grammatical and linguistic rule saying:

"One easy way to guess which words are recent and which are not likely to be loaned are break it down into it's constituent parts and see if it still has a meaning."

But once your rule became subjected to the test with certain words (since your rule plainly says "... words ..."), then suddenly comes the interesting u-turn and exception --- namely:

BoDy PaRtS iS nOt ApPlIcAbLe

So, to refresh your mind again, I did not come up with the linguistic rule or any such argument ---- you did.

My examples of the words "OJU", "IMU", etc. are simply to put your rule to the test, to see how well your made up linguistic rule will fare. And it did pretty badly.

So, stop putting forward the weird impression that I came up with the grammatical rule or similar claims, e.g. where you wrote:

"If you say idi (buttocks) should be an indigenous word as opposed to a loan word, on what basis are you making your claim? Are you saying you dont believe Yorubas can come up with words of their own making in a scientifically acceptable context such as naming body parts".

No I didn't come up with any such rules or claims, you did. And your strange grammatical rule was simply been put to test with examples of Yoruba words.

Do not attempt to disingenuously spin the narrative on me, just because your grammatical rule failed the test, by presenting an untrue imagery to the untrained reader.

Moreover, you claim not to have said that your grammatical rule is general. Well, I must add that you also, aforetime, did not warn about any exceptions.

In such situations, it is only natural that a general understanding holds sway, until you come out to clarify after been called out.

And such clarification cannot possibly be spun to be the fault of others. You must be willing to take responsibility.

In all, your eventual clarification still doesn't help nothing as there are hundreds upon thousands of Yoruba words (that aren't body parts ) which will similarly render your strange linguistic rule nonsensical.

nlPoster:


I did not say I had anything to do with your preparations.

I said you came prepared to debate. Nothing to do with me.

That you feel that way (i.e. that I came prepared) doesn't make it true.

It's my usual style to be consistent with whatever I know to be truth or fact, etc.

If you knew anything about my comments on nairaland, then you probably may have realized how wrong you are on that assumption.

I'm not prepared for you about nothing. I'm just doing my thing effortlessly.

TAO11:


True!

Also, I think nlPoster 's interpretation of the Edo "ISO" (meaning "SKY" ) through the Yoruba lens of "AWOSONMO" doesn't quite capture the sense of the word.

And my reason for this is quite simple and straightforward ---- the Yoruba word "AWOSONMO" (or simply "SONMO" ) is a relatively recent loanword from the Arabic "SAMA' " i.e. "سماء" (meaning "SKY" ).

I am inclined to thinking of the Edo word "ISO" along the lines of the Yoruba word "ÌSO" (with the actual diacritics still being "do-re" ).

And the Yoruba word "ÌSO" conveys the following sense:

"Tie", "Hang", as well as "Suspend" (as in suspend up in the air by been hung or tied).

This last significance brings the Edo "ISO" close to the Yoruba "ÌSO".

Having said that, I have updated the video of the interview by the 'yesterday' Ooni on the events around the first visit of an Ooni outside Ife.

100% accurate that Sanmo is loaned from Arabic lexicon. The indigenous word for Orú (sun) is derived from ọrún(sky) which is interwoven with Orù(heat), conveying relationship of the place of origin,sky and heat that emanates from it. The ideology behind Yoruba names and words is separated through diacritics, which makes Yoruba language to be extremely descriptive when conveying information about a thing, place or name etc.

Secondly, Iso is as you affirm it to be in Yoruba's lexicon,which has always been my position that the way English language arrived, is the same way Yoruba language arrived earlier in this part of the world with knowledge of God in Ifaodu. So, finding true cognate and false cognate in Edo land, Iboland,Nupeland, Igala land,Hausa land etc showed a contact existed while Yoruba language always come forth as been interchangeable with aboriginals that Ifaodu is well rooted or partly rooted.This is foundation of sppken words of Yoruba finding itself a across some places.

I notice many false cognate between Ibo and Yoruba language but I will share one today.For instance:

Ibo's ‘Ishi'/eshi' is (tomorrow)

Yoruba's, ẹshi (previous year, last season etc).

It is obvious, that intermingling established loaned words across board.While certain words couldn't be adopted and stays within the users of such lexicon.

I'd like to correct a little mistake on the op post that there's no gobiri tribe in borno. I believe that your referring to the kanuri tribe in borno. the gobiri/gobobiri tribe are a Hausa speaking tribe in kano state.

macof:



You just sent some Binis to school with this

You're Yoruba and you dont know omonoba means child or descendants of the Oba (referring to royal lineage possibly from the Yoruba side)? Ie people of the Oba. Omo which translates as Umu in eastoid languages?

Can you explain how Ba means shine.

Olu317:
Na wa oooo! Omo Kaaro O jire has become Kootu ojire? What dialect is that?

If i tell you I am not some one you can argue with, I know what I am saying. The original pronunciation is Kootu and not Kaaro.. Eku Aro is the right pronunciation and not Ekaaro. These were bastardization of Yoruba words. Why did you think the Portuguese called us the *Ku* people.

Olu317:
100% accurate that Sanmo is loaned from Arabic lexicon. The indigenous word for Orú (sun) is derived from ọrún(sky) which is interwoven with Orù(heat), conveying relationship of the place of origin,sky and heat that emanates from it. The ideology behind Yoruba names and words is separated through diacritics, which makes Yoruba language to be extremely descriptive when conveying information about a thing, place or name etc.

Secondly, Iso is as you affirm it to be in Yoruba's lexicon,which has always been my position that the way English language arrived, is the same way Yoruba language arrived earlier in this part of the world with knowledge of God in Ifaodu. So, finding true cognate and false cognate in Edo land, Iboland,Nupeland, Igala land,Hausa land etc showed a contact existed while Yoruba language always come forth as been interchangeable with aboriginals that Ifaodu is well rooted or partly rooted.This is foundation of sppken words of Yoruba finding itself a across some places.

I notice many false cognate between Ibo and Yoruba language but I will share one today.For instance:

Ibo's ‘Ishi'/eshi' is (tomorrow)

Yoruba's, ẹshi (previous year, last season etc).

It is obvious, that intermingling established loaned words across board.While certain words couldn't be adopted and stays within the users of such lexicon.

Good and deep analysis.

I especially love the part about "Eshi" (i.e. Previous Year or Previous Time) because I have an Ijebu connection.

The word "Eshi" brought me some nostalgic memories about my grandma and other things. It gave me goosebumps .

Many previously widespread ancient Yoruba words which are now generally lost to many people are still preserved in the Ijebu dialect. Thanks to the diverse nature of the Yoruba language.

But I must add that the diacritics for the "E" in the Yoruba word "Eshi" is NOT as the "E" in the word "Ebi" (family); but rather as the "E" in the word "Egun" (curse).

In other words, there should be no dot under the letter "E".

Nisai , please come and bear me witness on this. Lol.

In sum, your general diacritics (top diacritics especially) is usually inaccurate. And I do not say this with an iota of pride, or to demean you ---- just for learning sake.

For example:

The (top) diacritics for "SUN" is NOT "re, mi" ---- that is, "ORÚN" (no apparent meaning from the Yoruba lexicon) ---- as you've indicated here.

Rather, it is "do, do" ---- that is, "ÒRÙN".


Also, the (top) diacritic for "SKY" is also NOT "re, mi" ---- that is, "ỌRÚN" (meaning: "Five Days Time" ) ---- as you've indicated here.

Rather, it is "do, re" ---- that is, "Ọ̀RUN"


Similarly, the (top) diacritic for "HEAT" is NOT "re, do" --- that is, "ORÙ (the name of a town in Yorubaland) ---- as you've indicated here.

Rather, it is "re, re" ---- that is, "ORU" ---- with no apparent diacritics at all.

Lastly, the diacritic for "ESHI" is "do, mi" ---- that is, "ÈSHÍ".

And with a more standardized spelling becomes: "ÈṢÍ".

Cheers!

TAO11:
I thought I should share this interesting piece of historical information on the first time an Ooni of Ife will set foot 'outside' of his palace:

It was in the year 1903 when the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Adelekan Olubuse 1, was invited to Lagos by the then Governor General of the Southern Protectorate, Sir William MacGregor.

The Ooni was invited as a last resort measure to settle an important and fast escalating supremacy feud between certain Yoruba OBAs (I believe the Elepe and the Akarigbo --- I'm not 100% certain at the moment who and who it was) in the Lagos region.

The issue had evaded several resolution attempts by the British Government representatives until the British Government thought it was time that the Ooni himself stepped in.

Now, it must have been a really serious issue to warrant the Ooni to vacate his throne. No Ooni had done that before --- It was a pseudo-sacrilege.

Many sacrifices were offered en-route Lagos and in the whole process of his vacating his revered and imperial throne. The British Government bore all the cost of the sacrifices.

The Ooni quenched the duel as if it never happened, and as if no one ever attempted to solve the issue.

The most interesting aspect of all these, for me, is as follows:

As soon as the news reached all the kings in Southern Nigeria (from Warri, through Asaba, and down to the Yoruba interior --- including the Oba of Benin, the Alaafin of Oyo, and the Elékò) that the Ooni vacated his palace; they independently left their thrones and lived outside of their palace walls until the news reached them that the Ooni was back in Ife.

As if they informed each other, they considered it sacrilegious to continue residing in their respective palaces while the Ooni had vacated his (although temporarily and for good cause).


All these information is well documented in more details in the Government Gazette for the Colony of Lagos published on Saturday, February 28, 1903.

Also attached below is a video interview of the 'yesterday' Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade Olubuse II which speaks to the same issues:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDvDXkkXUMY&t=603s

You are very right, it was the Elepe and Akarigbo of Remo.. In fact The ancestral crown of Akarigbo of Remo was sieZed by the Ooni... The crown later found it self at the British museum. Don't mind all those trying to distort history

cbrass:

If i tell you I am not some one you can argue with, I know what I am saying. The original pronunciation is Kootu and not Kaaro.. Eku Aro is the right pronunciation and not Ekaaro. These were bastardization of Yoruba words. Why did you think the Portuguese called us the *Ku* people.

Olu317, Yes "Kootu-Ojire is also correct.

But what I often have issues with regarding discourse like this is the oft-repeated dichotomous idea and impression that one must be false because the other is true.

No! Why can't both be true? There isn't one Yoruba language afterall. There is a variety of the Yoruba language. They are called dialects. All legitimate.

"Kaaro-Ojire" is also correct and widely used among diverse Yoruba subgroups. And "KAARO" is not a "bastardization" bro. Elisions and contractions are essential and natural parts of All SPOKEN languages.

The technical Yoruba term in academia is "ÌPAJẸ Ọ̀RỌ̀".

It is perfectly legit Yoruba to SPEAK (or even write) of the "KING's WIFE" as "AYABA".

Cheers!

TAO11:


Olu317, Yes "Kootu-Ojire is also correct.

But what I often have issues with regarding discourse like this is the oft-repeated dichotomous idea and impression that one must be false because the other is true.

No! Why can't both be true? There isn't one Yoruba language afterall. There is a variety of the Yoruba language. They are called dialects. All legitimate.

"Kaaro-Ojire" is also correct and widely used among diverse Yoruba subgroups. And "KAARO" is not a "bastardization" bro. Elisions and contractions are essential and natural parts of All SPOKEN languages.

The technical Yoruba term in academia is "ÌPAJẸ Ọ̀RỌ̀".

It is perfectly legit Yoruba to SPEAK (or even write) of the "KING's WIFE" as "AYABA".

Cheers!

Well maybe I was too hash and thanks for the correction on that

cbrass:

If i tell you I am not some one you can argue with, I know what I am saying. The original pronunciation is Kootu and not Kaaro.. Eku Aro is the right pronunciation and not Ekaaro. These were bastardization of Yoruba words. Why did you think the Portuguese called us the *Ku* people.

The Portuguese never called Yorubas ku people.

Some Yorubas were referred to as Eku due to their greeting patterns which extensively say aku.

Ku means die.

Eku is a greeting which sounds like you die but it actually means are you enjoying, or enjoy.

TAO11:


Olu317, Yes "Kootu-Ojire is also correct.

But what I often have issues with regarding discourse like this is the oft-repeated dichotomous idea and impression that one must be false because the other is true.

No! Why can't both be true? There isn't one Yoruba language afterall. There is a variety of the Yoruba language. They are called dialects. All legitimate.

"Kaaro-Ojire" is also correct and widely used among diverse Yoruba subgroups. And "KAARO" is not a "bastardization" bro. Elisions and contractions are essential and natural parts of All SPOKEN languages.

The technical Yoruba term in academia is "ÌPAJẸ Ọ̀RỌ̀".

It is perfectly legit Yoruba to SPEAK (or even write) of the "KING's WIFE" as "AYABA".

Cheers!

King's wife is Olori.


Ayaba refers to a biblical context.

What exactly are you folks doing that you need nairaland for? Who is your misinformation directed at, I mean which country or countries nationals?

cbrass:


First of all it is called kootuojire and not kaarojire, many of you claim to know but still don't know. Does the religion some one picks distort his history...

It's enough, stop trying to appear knowledgeable on these topics when it's clearly you are not. The more you keep trying to, the more you appear ignorant and perhaps mischievous. Dissemination of knowledge is an intellectual descipline owed to historical posterity not the reckless presumptions you keep culling from the most reachable source(s) available to you, unfortunately they constitute the most, but are generally run-of-the-mill, cheap imitations of the real masters who are a trio of combinations, while I leave you to go figure that out, let me school you a bit my brother from the Twon-Brass people of the Nembe kingdom, do you know that Eledumaré and Olodumaré are one and the same in meaning as both refers to the poly/heno-theistic God name of the Yoruba, it's just a dialectical difference just as you might hear osala-chi and isala-chi and ibola-chi in Igbo or kini-dé and kilo-dé in Yoruba, all attributing to the exact meaning and same expected response. So, before your source makes you feel he/she is an authority by fooling you that it's not Éledumaré but Ólódumaré, ask him/her what's the difference between kootuojire and kaarojire, if not a matter of dialectical preference.

cbrass:

You are very right, it was the Elepe and Akarigbo of Remo.. In fact The ancestral crown of Akarigbo of Remo was sieZed by the Ooni... The crown later found it self at the British museum. Don't mind all those trying to distort history

Yes, I was right about the royal titles of the OBAs involved. Thank you for also confirming that.

I just found a relevant page from Professor R. C. C. Law's "The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba". Published in The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2 (1973).

Quoting him from the last lines of page 210, he writes:

"In some of the derivative kingdoms, the dynastic link with Ile Ife was given institutional expression, in the rituals accompanying the installation of their kings. For example, when a new Alafin, or king of Oyo was installed, the sword which is believed to have belonged to Oranyan, the son of Oduduwa who founded the Oyo dynasty, was sent to Ile Ife for reconsecration before being used in the ceremony. At Benin, parts of the bodies of the deceased kings were sent to Ile Ife for burial.

The principal importance of the dynastic link with Ile Ife lay in the fact that descent from a son or grandson of Oduduwa was considered necessary to validate a king's claim to the right to wear an ade, or crown with a beaded fringe.

In 1903 this principle was given official recognition by the British authorities, who brought the Oni, or king, of Ife to Lagos to give judgement on the claim of the Elepe of Sagamu, a minor Ijebu ruler, to wear an ade: the Oni gave a list of twenty-one kings with the right to wear ade, not including the Elepe."

Refer to pp. 210-211.


So, it wasn't the Olu-Epe of Epe (in today's Lagos State) contrary to what I had in mind. It was actually the Elepe of Epe in Sagamu (in today's Ogun State).

And it was between him and the Akarigbo of Remoland (which includes Shagamu itself) when the Akarigbo challenged him that he was not entitled to wear a beaded crown of the type deriving from Ife.

It turns out that the Akarigbo was right as evidenced by the judgement of the Ooni from his list of the twenty-one legitimate kings which of course included the Akarigbo.

So, the judgement was not against the Akarigbo.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers!

nlPoster:


King's wife is Olori.


Ayaba refers to a biblical context.

What exactly are you folks doing that you need nairaland for? Who is your misinformation directed at, I mean which country or countries nationals?

Calm down. Olori is a title for the king's wife.

My point which you missed is about:

If you want to translate the words "KING'S WIFE" word-for-word into Yoruba.

And surely a translation is "AYA OBA" which in spoken Yoruba contracts to "AYABA".

Elisions and contractions are legitimate elements of spoken language.

And "KAARO" (or EKAARO" ) is not a bastardization. It is perfectly legitimate, just as "KU ARO" (or "EKU ARO" ).

y3mi:
It's enough, stop trying to appear knowledgeable on these topics when it's clearly yoy are not. The more you try to the more you appear ignorant and perhaps mischievous. Dissemination of knowledge is an intellectual descipline owed to historical posterity not the reckless presumptions you keep culling from the most reachable source(s) available to you, unfortunately they constitute the most but are generally run-of-the-mill, cheap imitations of the real masters who are trio of combinations, while I leave you to go figure that out, let me school you a bit my brother from the Twon-Brass people of the Nembe kingdom,do you know that Eledumaré and Olodumaré are one and the same in meaning as both refers to the poly/heno-theistic God name of the Yoruba, it's just a dialectical difference just as you might hear osala-chi and isala-chi and ibola-chi in Igbo or kini-dé and kilo-dé in Yoruba, all attributing to the exact meaning and same expected response. So, before your source makes you feel he/she is an authority by fooling you that it's not Éledumaré but Ólódumaré, ask him/her what's the difference between kootuojire and kaarojire, if not a matter of dialectical preference.

Thank you oo

TAO11:


I should calm down. Olori is a title for the king's wife.

My point which you missed is about:

If you want to translate the words "KING'S WIFE" word for word into Yoruba.

And surely a translation is "AYA OBA" which in spoken Yoruba contracts to "AYABA".

Elisions and contractions are legitimate elements of spoken language.

And "KAARO" (or EKAARO" ) is not a bastardization. It is perfectly legitimate, just as "KU ARO" (or "EKU ARO" ).

Like I said, Olori is king's wife.

Ayaba is used for biblical contexts.

tpiar:


Like I said, Olori is king's wife.

Ayaba is used for biblical contexts.

Smiles.

Thanks for merely been repititive without any argument, evidence, proof, or reason to butress your claim.

Cheers!

TAO11:


Olu317, Yes "Kootu-Ojire is also correct.

But what I often have issues with regarding discourse like this is the oft-repeated dichotomous idea and impression that one must be false because the other is true.

No! Why can't both be true? There isn't one Yoruba language afterall. There is a variety of the Yoruba language. They are called dialects. All legitimate.

"Kaaro-Ojire" is also correct and widely used among diverse Yoruba subgroups. And "KAARO" is not a "bastardization" bro. Elisions and contractions are essential and natural parts of All SPOKEN languages.

The technical Yoruba term in academia is "ÌPAJẸ Ọ̀RỌ̀".

It is perfectly legit Yoruba to SPEAK (or even write) of the "KING's WIFE" as "AYABA".

Cheers!

Yoruba's Kutu is also shared lexicon with Ancient Egypt. Perhaps, loaned into Yoruba language. This is because, the ancient Egypt's,‘Kut', is transliterate and translated as ‘sunrise' in English language and Yoruba's ‘Kutu' is mostly translated as,‘ morning' or ‘ rise of day light.' At times, to convey how early the period is,Yoruba say, kutu+kutu{ very early in the morning}

The reason I digress a bit about Kutu is that, Yoruba says, Aro kutu or Aro kutu+kutu. I find it shocking because of the use of two synonym. Aro is early morning so also is Kutu is also early morning. You can get my grip on this from, ‘Ecology of Language by Einar Haugen', to understand my point . So,also if you can get more knowledge on Ancient Semitic language, then you will see my position on the ancient speakers of Yoruba language and place of origin.

TAO11:


Smiles.

Thanks for merely been repititive without any argument, evidence, proof, or reason to butress your claim.

Cheers!

Reduce your overly sentimental postings, it's not necessary.

Excessive use of emoticons, using words like "remain calm", "smiles", "cheers", etc during serious discussions, is silly. You seem excitable, perhaps that's your nature.

Are you upset? I know Nigerians generally do not like it when they are not flattered.

Also, are you liking and sharing your posts as another id or someone is on standby to do that?

Olu317:
Yoruba's Kutu is also shared lexicon with Ancient Egypt. Perhaps, loaned into Yoruba language. This is because, the ancient Egypt's,‘Kut', is transliterate and translated as ‘sunrise' in English language and Yoruba's ‘Kutu' is mostly translated as,‘ morning' or ‘ rise of day light.' At times, to convey how early the period is,Yoruba say, kutu+kutu{ very early in the morning}

The reason I digress a bit about Kutu is that, Yoruba says, Aro kutu or Aro kutu+kutu. I find it shocking because of the use of two synonym. Aro is early morning so also is Kutu is also early morning. You can get my grip on this from, ‘Ecology of Language by Einar Haugen', to understand my point . So,also if you can get more knowledge on Ancient Semitic language, then you will see my position on the ancient speakers of Yoruba language and place of origin.

Early morning is Aaro, not aro.

Aro is mental illness and is not a Yoruba word.

Seriously, these are basic Yoruba semantics, why is it you discuss Yoruba language on many threads but seem to be unaware of some simplest things? Just wondering, could you give a clue?

In addition (@ discussion)

Eku is a Yoruba greeting which when transliterated, could be mistaken to mean you die, but that's not it's actual meaning.

It could also be a derivative of the word Ekun referring to leopard, if we're looking at possible sources of the expression.

This is not a debate about loan or root words please.

nlPoster:


The Portuguese never called Yorubas ku people.

Some Yorubas were referred to as Eku due to their greeting patterns which extensively say aku.

Ku means die.

Eku is a greeting which sounds like you die but it actually means are you enjoying, or enjoy.

Where do you people read your own history from sef... so Mr what were we called... Aku ko Akpu ni... Who doesn't know the meaning of ku