FOLYKAZE:

Fact is, the bible is not written to provide historical information. It is designed to propagate theology and understanding of divinity of Israelis, however, this account is founded on fiction. Nothing is wrong with fiction, it is universal, and shouldn't be mixed with reality. Budaatum, MrPresident and Buzugee admitted the accounts ain't literal incidences. Many churches admitted incidents in Garden of Eden are not literal. It is you, Mr Max and many Christians out there who want to straighten this fictional accounts with historic realities, and in si doing, history is bend and heavily distorted.
A quick look at the account you gave up there, any student of history would understand the account is a reconstruction and revision course which had truth bended and misdirected.
For one, the face-off between Jew and Roman predate Jesus. The Jew wanted a national identity, culture and belief in their own independent state; Romans want political, economical and social dominance. So you see sir, the rancour is based on political differences, and has nothing to do with Christianity.
History accounted that Herod is known as the king of the Jew, a declaration which is provocative to the Jew.
History accounted that Pontious Pilate, the premier of Judea, forcefully put the image of Emperor in the temple, another form of provocation.
History accounted that Gessius Florus seized the funds from the sacred temple treasury, an action that made Jew provoked.
History recorded that some Jewish soldiers called Scirii attacked and killed roman garrison and declared independence.
And war broke out between the state of Rome and Jewish Rebels in 66CE that cost the destruction of the temple in 70CE by Titus.
Mr Max sir, looking at the account above, one would see that the rancour is between Jew and Rome. Christians only distorted this stories to affix Jesus into it. Something you are doing here.
The only historical information depicting persecution of Christians is Emperor Nero clampdown, a retaliation after the roman city was burned allegedly by Christians. The larger war that broke out which led to destruction of the temple has nothing to do with Jesus.
It is important we tell history as it is, without infusing any character into it. Provide the historicity of Jesus, proving he is historical figure and we kick. I would advise you submit historical records and facts from eye witness to buttress your point.
Mr Max sir, I am glad you cited the Bible on what should constitute as FACT. The verse states that a evidence from two or three witnesses should be taken as fact. You have refused to prove any of the gospel authors is a witness of Jesus's life and his miracles.
We need a common ground on what a witness is, and what witness is tenable.
Firstly, witness is defined, in my own understanding, one who sees or have personal knowledge of an event. This knowledge can be attained through experience in real time. And only eye witness attestation is tenable, hearsay isn't acceptable.
The four gospel writers didn't see Jesus in real-time or bare witness to his activities in his lifetime.
1. Gospel of Mark is the first manuscript and the oldest, written by Mark the Evangelist in 68AD This person called Mark is the disciple of Apostle. His writings is fondly from secondary sources and not tenable.
2. The Gospel of Luke is written by Luke the evangelist, a disciple of Apostle Paul. He is also the author of Acts of Apostle. In Luke 1:1-3, he indicated that he compiled the accounts from the eye-witness, he isn't the eye witness. Findings shows he copied from the Gospel of Mark, Q and L sources.
3. Gospel of Matthew isn't written by Apostle Matthew. In fact, the book was written many years after Apostle Matthew had died. The author is likely Matthew the evangelist, one of the 70 disciples.
4. Gospel of John was written in 110AD, 80yrs after Jesus had purportedly died, by the unknown disciple Jesus loved. Infusing his own agenda, he spelt out Jesus commissioned 70 disciples instead of 12. And also put himself in Jesus life when other writers do not mention these.
I understand sir, that the church tradition is that the authors are apostle of Jesus 12 disciples. However, evidences have revealed that none of these authors are eye witness to Jesus life and activities. They all wrote majorly on hearsay, not witness, and as such their accounts are not acceptable as facts.
Lol....
Political differences, war and racism is as old as man, and would be here ever. Politics, war and racism can be found among animals. So Jesus prophecy is nothing new. I think we should focus on the historicity rather than prophetic works which can easily be designed and assigned to anyone.

It's good when you come out plainly to say what you know about something than hiding under pretext as if you're searching for proof!

If you don't want to hear anything about Christ or Christianity, just go ahead and say that. There are resource materials from which Jehovah's Witnesses gathered all the information regarding the gospel writers, but this is not the appropriate medium for that.

I've told you how the Bible got to us and the historical evidence of why his contemporaries who aren't his followers never mentioned him.

Since you've made up your mind on what to believe i think there is no need wasting much time on the discussion, but if you still feel like knowing about our resource materials regarding the gospel writers, feel free to welcome Jehovah's Witnesses to your home and ask for it!

Below is the table indicating the writer of the book, times, dates, duration and events surrounding the time of writing.

So don't underestimate the knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses like your misinformed churchgoer friends!

FOLYKAZE:


I took the issue to church and Pastor subtly jabbed me, warning that he won't tolerate such discussion in his church.

Many underestimate their own learning thinking their Pastor ought to know more. It's like they disregard the amount of work they personally did to acquire the knowledge that they have acquired and think their pastor ought to have done more work to know more.

Such people have likely not read how Balaam's ass was smarter than Balaam so they value their pastor more than themselves. No wonder their love for others is as little as the little love they have for themselves, I think.

If only they could understand that their own task/calling might be different to their pastor's calling. But typically of humans, they want everyone to be created in their own image, and be just like they are and understand as they do, as if knowledge, wisdom and understanding falls freely from the heavens on everyone's head like rain does.

May you gain insight into thyself, I say, instead of seeking the insight of thy Pastor.

Maximus69:


It's good when you come out plainly to say what you know about something than hiding under pretext as if you're searching for proof!

If you don't want to hear anything about Christ or Christianity, just go ahead and say that. There are resource materials from which Jehovah's Witnesses gathered all the information regarding the gospel writers, but this is not the appropriate medium for that.

I've told you how the Bible got to us and the historical evidence of why his contemporaries who aren't his followers never mentioned him.

Since you've made up your mind on what to believe i think there is no need wasting much time on the discussion, but if you still feel like knowing about our resource materials regarding the gospel writers, feel free to welcome Jehovah's Witnesses to your home and ask for it!

Below is the table indicating the writer of the book, times, dates, duration and events surrounding the time of writing.

So don't underestimate the knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses like your misinformed churchgoer friends!

Mr Max sir, I think you should calm your nerves. The tone you are exhibiting here isn't that a christian or the jw. I implore you to remain calm and respectful.

Go through the OP, from onset I made my understanding on the subject that the narratives in the bible is parallel to it's historicity well known. So sir, do not take offense if I retort these stories over and over, as a counter to your own submission.

The history of the early and first century Christians are well known. The brewing crisis that lead to the destruction of Jewish temple is also known. While the accounts do not correlate, you are the one painting the pictures with one brush.

Telling us sir, that there is no contemporary accounts about Jesus life and his activities is tantamount to saying what we know of him today, writing many decades after he is dead, is fictional. Please listen to yourself sir, the people he performed miracles on would have written something about the incident. The people he resurrected could have written about their experience. There were massive rises of the dead, coming back alive, after Jesus died; a significant incident like this would have been documented by people and close relatives of the zombies. Those he gave wine to in the wedding, the 5000+ he fed on different occasions would have written about him. The resurrection was witnessed by about 550 folks, the ascension was seen worldwide, but no one wrote about it? Not even none jew/Christians who saw the unusual? Is that possible? But hey, the earliest document we have about him was written 40yrs after he died. Does this make sense to you? So it is not that they necessarily do not want to write about this incidents. Maybe it didn't happen, just like the enslavement of Jew in Egypt and the Exodus, none of these incident truly occurred.

Mankind search for God, a book published by Jw, argued that the evidence of the global flooding in Noah days is truth because there are global flooding myth. How does one affirm historic reality with myth?

The author of the gospels are not witnesses. The Gospel was not written and does not claim to be written by direct witnesses to the reported events. Luke mentions that he knows of other written sources of Jesus' life, and that he has investigated in order to gather the most information. The sources of their information is not from original sources, but largely secondary and in some cases tertiary. From the legal standpoint, secondary source data are not admissible, especially when the primary source is unavailable. Tertiary data are thrown out without second look. With this, I implore you to provide only eye witness account that the gospel writers drawn their writing from. Moreso, account in real time would be much accepted. You see, I have given you expo on what I need.

And if you have information on the author of the gospels, please do not hoard them. Post them here and let us learn. Thanks

budaatum:

I have no evidence for an afterlife or a heaven nor do I concern myself about such things, for Christ wisely advised that "[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A26-34&version=NKJV]Sufficient for the day is its own trouble", and I can't add "one cubit to my stature"[/url] by worrying. What I do know is that some are in heaven right here on earth, and some are definitely in hell.

And no, everything in the Bible is not allegory. Some is historical - though bad history mostly, some is mythical, some made up, some corrupted, some of it is to make one think and so on and the whole of it is to make one a living human being.

That said, the devil does not rest, so one must be diligent in one's reading while bearing in mind what the message is.

That above is brilliant. It only takes big heart to admit the reality of the Bible.

Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff, una agree with budaa?

budaatum:

Many underestimate their own learning thinking their Pastor ought to know more. It's like they disregard the amount of work they personally did to acquire the knowledge that they have acquired and think their pastor ought to have done more work to know more.

Such people have likely not read how Balaam's ass was smarter than Balaam so they value their pastor more than themselves. No wonder their love for others is as little as the little love they have for themselves, I think.

If only they could understand that their own task/calling might be different to their pastor's calling. But typically of humans, they want everyone to be created in their own image, and be just like they are and understand as they do, as if knowledge, wisdom and understanding falls freely from the heavens on everyone's head like rain does.

May you gain insight into thyself, I say, instead of seeking the insight of thy Pastor.

Lol.

The Pastor was on my neck for like two months asking me to worship in his church. I told him pointblank I am not a Christian and do not have interest in religion, but he won't bulge. I have raised many objections during service and he thought i be bad market. One of his evangelist wanted to attack me when I asked them to prove existence of God and exhibit the power of God before me. He caused it though. Will continue pulling the string until he pronounce that I should stop coming to his church.

FOLYKAZE:


Mr Max sir, I think you should calm your nerves. The tone you are exhibiting here isn't that a christian or the jw. I implore you to remain calm and respectful.

Go through the OP, from onset I made my understanding on the subject that the narratives in the bible is parallel to it's historicity well known. So sir, do not take offense if I retort these stories over and over, as a counter to your own submission.

The history of the early and first century Christians are well known. The brewing crisis that lead to the destruction of Jewish temple is also known. While the accounts do not correlate, you are the one painting the pictures with one brush.

Telling us sir, that there is no contemporary accounts about Jesus life and his activities is tantamount to saying what we know of him today, writing many decades after he is dead, is fictional. Please listen to yourself sir, the people he performed miracles on would have written something about the incident. The people he resurrected could have written about their experience. There were massive rises of the dead, coming back alive, after Jesus died; a significant incident like this would have been documented by people and close relatives of the zombies. Those he gave wine to in the wedding, the 5000+ he fed on different occasions would have written about him. The resurrection was witnessed by about 550 folks, the ascension was seen worldwide, but no one wrote about it? Not even none jew/Christians who saw the unusual? Is that possible? But hey, the earliest document we have about him was written 40yrs after he died. Does this make sense to you? So it is not that they necessarily do not want to write about this incidents. Maybe it didn't happen, just like the enslavement of Jew in Egypt and the Exodus, none of these incident truly occurred.

Mankind search for God, a book published by Jw, argued that the evidence of the global flooding in Noah days is truth because there are global flooding myth. How does one affirm historic reality with myth?

The author of the gospels are not witnesses. The Gospel was not written and does not claim to be written by direct witnesses to the reported events. Luke mentions that he knows of other written sources of Jesus' life, and that he has investigated in order to gather the most information. The sources of their information is not from original sources, but largely secondary and in some cases tertiary. From the legal standpoint, secondary source data are not admissible, especially when the primary source is unavailable. Tertiary data are thrown out without second look. With this, I implore you to provide only eye witness account that the gospel writers drawn their writing from. Moreso, account in real time would be much accepted. You see, I have given you expo on what I need.

And if you have information on the author of the gospels, please do not hoard them. Post them here and let us learn. Thanks

Your thinking is catapulted towards one goal "EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT"

But you forgot to note that people are moved to pen down things that's strange NOT thing that has happened and recorded before!

For instance, what can you make out of a rape issue when it has been heard of in many places?
Or what do you think about ritualism when people have heard lots of it?

My friend we are talking about the Israelites here!
There has been lots of miraculous events happening in their midst for ages, so Jesus coming to perform miracles can be strange only to races who never experienced such NOT amongst the Israelites who have had similar experiences with different prophets in the past! Matthew 16:13-14

Today how many documents have you personally made and preserved for up coming generation about corrupt politicians, electricity black outs, bribery everywhere, underaged prostitution, terrorism and so on all happening in our society during your lifetime?

Of course you wouldn't because it has become like unavoidable thorns in the flesh of Nigerians, so we're already used to the system. But imagine if students from the army school should get weapons, kill all corrupt politicians and establish a new government where nobody is allowed to own more than a house, a car or earn above/below N100,000!
Of course no Nigerian will ever forget to pass such information to the coming generation!

Only Jesus' followers penned down the events because he commissioned them to tell it to the world! Matthew 28:19-20

The gap between the time of event and writing is logical, because they began writing down all what they heard and saw after all what this young man prophesied had happened during their own lifetime!

It was God's holy spirit that reminded them all what this young man did and told them decades after his ascension! John 14:26

That's why i said "if you don't believe in all these it's OK, other individuals will put faith in what they've heard and seen with their own eyes"

I for my part became a Christian NOT because i had interest in the records of their so called miracles, but because of one single word " Christian Soldiers"

I read the story several times and i couldn't find anyway a Christian (follower of a Jewish carpenter turned preacher, who never learnt nor raised a weapon to kill anyone) could be a soldier (armed men using weapons and force to accomplish their goal).

So i began studying all the religious groups claiming Christians around me until i found the Jehovah's Witnesses!

This group will never raise a weapon, in fact it's totally against their norms to be a military officer or force man, yet they're zealously conquering villages, towns, cities and countries.
Even in the stronghold of world renoun racist nations, these people have penetrated and initiated members who have vowed never to participate in politics or racism again!

Well that's when i now concluded that this Jesus who made that prophecy regarding people coming out from different races to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers once lived on this planet, and all what was written about him is TRUE! Isaiah 2:1-4 compare to John 13:34-35;17:20-23

Maximus69:


Your thinking is catapulted towards one goal "EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT"

But you forgot to note that people are moved to pen down things that's strange NOT thing that has happened and recorded before!

For instance, what can you make out of a rape issue when it has been heard of in many places?
Or what do you think about ritualism when people have heard lots of it?

My friend we are talking about the Israelites here!
There has been lots of miraculous events happening in their midst for ages, so Jesus coming to perform miracles can be strange only to races who never experienced such NOT amongst the Israelites who have had similar experiences with different prophets in the past! Matthew 16:13-14

Today how many documents have you personally made and preserved for up coming generation about corrupt politicians, electricity black outs, bribery everywhere, underaged prostitution, terrorism and so on all happening in our society during your lifetime?

Of course you wouldn't because it has become like unavoidable thorns in the flesh of Nigerians, so we're already used to the system. But imagine if students from the army school should get weapons, kill all corrupt politicians and establish a new government where nobody is allowed to own more than a house, a car or earn above/below N100,000!
Of course no Nigerian will ever forget to pass such information to the coming generation!

Only Jesus' followers penned down the events because he commissioned them to tell it to the world! Matthew 28:19-20

The gap between the time of event and writing is logical, because they began writing down all what they heard and saw after all what this young man prophesied had happened during their own lifetime!

It was God's holy spirit that reminded them all what this young man did and told them decades after his ascension! John 14:26

That's why i said "if you don't believe in all these it's OK, other individuals will put faith in what they've heard and seen with their own eyes"

I for my part became a Christian NOT because i had interest in the records of their so called miracles, but because of one single word " Christian Soldiers"

I read the story several times and i couldn't find anyway a Christian (follower of a Jewish carpenter turned preacher, who never learnt nor raised a weapon to kill anyone) could be a soldier (armed men using weapons and force to accomplish their goal).

So i began studying all the religious groups claiming Christians around me until i found the Jehovah's Witnesses!

This group will never raise a weapon, in fact it's totally against their norms to be a military officer or force man, yet they're zealously conquering villages, towns, cities and countries.
Even in the stronghold of world renoun racist nations, these people have penetrated and initiated members who have vowed never to participate in politics or racism again!

Well that's when i now concluded that this Jesus who made that prophecy regarding people coming out from different races to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers once lived on this planet, and all what was written about him is TRUE! Isaiah 2:1-4 compare to John 13:34-35;17:20-23

You seem to take great pride in always mentioning that your group does not carry arms or is not interested in arms conflict and for this your are promoting peace. Good and very good
But my friend , there are crazy people in the world. These set of humans, no matter where you find, derive pleasure in doing evil. Force is the only thing that can stop them. Not your watch tower and awake magazine.

What is even more annoying for me is that you are completely blind to the fact that Nigerians soldiers fighting Boko Haram, with some of them getting killed, are doing so to protect you and I. You people are not making peace but living in denial

If not for the effort of the military, Boko Haram would have extended to the southern part of the country and no where would be safe. Then what would you do ? of course you will run to cotonou or Ghana (that's your usual advice) to continue your pretentious peace making nonsense. Bunch of cowards!

I am beginning to understand why the Russian government that depends on the size and strength of it's military don't want you.

You claim to be a former military intelligence officer but it's difficult to see this in any of your post.

Maximus69:


Your thinking is catapulted towards one goal "EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT"

But you forgot to note that people are moved to pen down things that's strange NOT thing that has happened and recorded before!

For instance, what can you make out of a rape issue when it has been heard of in many places?
Or what do you think about ritualism when people have heard lots of it?

My friend we are talking about the Israelites here!
There has been lots of miraculous events happening in their midst for ages, so Jesus coming to perform miracles can be strange only to races who never experienced such NOT amongst the Israelites who have had similar experiences with different prophets in the past! Matthew 16:13-14

Today how many documents have you personally made and preserved for up coming generation about corrupt politicians, electricity black outs, bribery everywhere, underaged prostitution, terrorism and so on all happening in our society during your lifetime?

Of course you wouldn't because it has become like unavoidable thorns in the flesh of Nigerians, so we're already used to the system. But imagine if students from the army school should get weapons, kill all corrupt politicians and establish a new government where nobody is allowed to own more than a house, a car or earn above/below N100,000!
Of course no Nigerian will ever forget to pass such information to the coming generation!

Only Jesus' followers penned down the events because he commissioned them to tell it to the world! Matthew 28:19-20

The gap between the time of event and writing is logical, because they began writing down all what they heard and saw after all what this young man prophesied had happened during their own lifetime!

It was God's holy spirit that reminded them all what this young man did and told them decades after his ascension! John 14:26

That's why i said "if you don't believe in all these it's OK, other individuals will put faith in what they've heard and seen with their own eyes"

I for my part became a Christian NOT because i had interest in the records of their so called miracles, but because of one single word " Christian Soldiers"

I read the story several times and i couldn't find anyway a Christian (follower of a Jewish carpenter turned preacher, who never learnt nor raised a weapon to kill anyone) could be a soldier (armed men using weapons and force to accomplish their goal).

So i began studying all the religious groups claiming Christians around me until i found the Jehovah's Witnesses!

This group will never raise a weapon, in fact it's totally against their norms to be a military officer or force man, yet they're zealously conquering villages, towns, cities and countries.
Even in the stronghold of world renoun racist nations, these people have penetrated and initiated members who have vowed never to participate in politics or racism again!

Well that's when i now concluded that this Jesus who made that prophecy regarding people coming out from different races to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers once lived on this planet, and all what was written about him is TRUE! Isaiah 2:1-4 compare to John 13:34-35;17:20-23

Would you have expected me to require from you accounts based on HEARSAY or made up illusion of someone?

No, darling Max, don't bamboozle me with excuses that Israelite had seen so many miracles hence couldn't write about their experiences in Jesus lifetime, the line is tasteless. The same converted jew and gentle penned down their popular belief
, attesting to other writeups, what was the motive of their writings? Commonalities? how is the general jew community different here?

Your focus is on the Jew. However, we had many non jew like Samaritans and gentiles who had contacts with Jesus. How come none of these people wrote anything about him? Have they seen numerous miracles from their own messiah too?

You see, an incident like ascension without propulsion is not common like you stated. The massive resurrection of zombies is nothing common. The incident happened in judea under the control of elite Romans. How come not a single record from Rome have the info?

Need to tell you sir, that the civil war in Nigeria was recorded by so many people who witnessed it. Chinual Achebe book is a good example of eye witness account. Everything he wrote in the book happened in his time. His work isn't based on hearsay or popular held belief.

My own personal life experiences are jotted in diary. And so many people do this too. On the larger scale incidents in the nation, the report is always everywhere, and achieved for future purposes.

Christians held that Jesus life isn't a common life as many significant things happened in his days. Resurrection isn't common, feeding of 10,000 folks without having food reserve isnt common, people were on the sea fishing and saw Peter catwalking on the water...this isn't common, ascension isn't also common. When he was been baptised, a voice came from heaven and many people across the province heard it...this too isn't common. The roman soldier he glue his ear, he isn't jew and such act should be strange. All these incidents ain't common and very strange. There should be a document recording it from the contemporaries.

Even if it is records confirming just one of the incidents, it will authenticate the others. An absence of any record is same as saying it didn't happen.


If I may ask, how did you trust a secondary source data in the gospels?

triplechoice:


You seem to take great pride in always mentioning that your group does not carry arms or is not interested in arms conflict and for this your are promoting peace. Good and very good
But my friend , there are crazy people in the world. These set of humans, no matter where you find, derive pleasure in doing evil. Force is the only thing that can stop them. Not your watch tower and awake magazine.

What is even more annoying for me is that you are completely blind to the fact that Nigerians soldiers fighting Boko Haram, with some of them getting killed, are doing so to protect you and I. You people are not making peace but living in denial

If not for the effort of the military, Boko Haram would have extended to the southern part of the country and no where would be safe. Then what would you do ? of course you will run to cotonou or Ghana (that's your usual advice) to continue your pretentious peace making nonsense. Bunch of cowards!

I am beginning to understand why the Russian government that depends on the size and strength of it's military don't want you.

You claim to be a former military intelligence officer but it's difficult to see this in any of your post.

Tell him to read about Jainism if he wants peaceful and non violence religion system. JW claiming peaceful and non violent but violently killing animals, denying animal right and eating meat, even when the bible said “For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.” Eccl. 3:19-20

Apt response though

FOLYKAZE:


Tell him to read about Jainism if he wants peaceful and non violence religion system. JW claiming peaceful and non violent but violently killing animals, denying animal right and eating meat, even when the bible said “For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.” Eccl. 3:19-20

Apt response though

His usual counter is the Jains don't go round preaching their peace. And he won't see the irony of it.

triplechoice:


You seem to take great pride in always mentioning that your group does not carry arms or is not interested in arms conflict and for this your are promoting peace. Good and very good
But my friend , there are crazy people in the world. These set of humans, no matter where you find, derive pleasure in doing evil. Force is the only thing that can stop them. Not your watch tower and awake magazine.

What is even more annoying for me is that you are completely blind to the fact that Nigerians soldiers fighting Boko Haram, with some of them getting killed, are doing so to protect you and I. You people are not making peace but living in denial

If not for the effort of the military, Boko Haram would have extended to the southern part of the country and no where would be safe. Then what would you do ? of course you will run to cotonou or Ghana (that's your usual advice) to continue your pretentious peace making nonsense. Bunch of cowards!

I am beginning to understand why the Russian government that depends on the size and strength of it's military don't want you.

You claim to be a former military intelligence officer but it's difficult to see this in any of your post.

I'm sorry if i've offended you in any way, please i tender an apology!

Let's talk about taking part in the military.

First and foremost, you need to know that any organized army is targeted at disarming their opponents NOT killing them. If you carry your weapons on your head or white flag it simply means you've surrendered for peacemaking, and any soldier who aim at you will definitely be sentenced to death.
For your information, that's why the Nigerian armies aren't killing the insurgents as many civilians like you would have suggested. Those insurgents knows the rules, so whenever they're captured, the next thing is to carry their weapons on their head meaning they've surrendered any no soldier has the right to aim at them anymore!

But we're talking about PEACE here, so how do you go about peace making?

I want you to understand that the first step is to meet one on one with your neighbor to iron out your differences through dialogue. That's exactly what Jesus of Nazareth introduced.
If your neighbor said he won't live by the same standard as you do, then you find a common ground so as to cohabit in peace.
What you're seeing those terrorists doing today didn't begin with Islam, it was the Romans that brought the idea of using religion to blur the sense of their captives.
Go and read the history of the Roman Catholic Church and you'll see that it's what they laid down that triggered the Muslims to start fighting religious wars up and down!
The Muslims believe that Christians have used the crusades to steal most of their lands and now they're fighting to have it back, but more to that they now feel they can dominate the world if they did not relent in their effort.

So if Christianity was practiced the way Jesus commissioned it WITHOUT the use of force, Muhammad who later claim to be a prophet have no option than to adopt the same peaceful program, but by the time Muhammad walked this planet, it was the Roman Catholic Crusaders that were conquering villages, towns and cities in Jesus name that he met claiming Christians!

So Jesus never taught his followers to force their beliefs on others or fight with swords to conquer people for him just as those white colonial masters came to do back then in Africa. They did the same thing to the Arabs back then that's why the Arabs are now coming back to do the same thing thinking anyone carrying Bible is for the Catholic Crusaders!

FOLYKAZE:


Would you have expected me to require from you accounts based on HEARSAY or made up illusion of someone?

No, darling Max, don't bamboozle me with excuses that Israelite had seen so many miracles hence couldn't write about their experiences in Jesus lifetime, the line is tasteless. The same converted jew and gentle penned down their popular belief
, attesting to other writeups, what was the motive of their writings? Commonalities? how is the general jew community different here?

Your focus is on the Jew. However, we had many non jew like Samaritans and gentiles who had contacts with Jesus. How come none of these people wrote anything about him? Have they seen numerous miracles from their own messiah too?

You see, an incident like ascension without propulsion is not common like you stated. The massive resurrection of zombies is nothing common. The incident happened in judea under the control of elite Romans. How come not a single record from Rome have the info?

Need to tell you sir, that the civil war in Nigeria was recorded by so many people who witnessed it. Chinual Achebe book is a good example of eye witness account. Everything he wrote in the book happened in his time. His work isn't based on hearsay or popular held belief.

My own personal life experiences are jotted in diary. And so many people do this too. On the larger scale incidents in the nation, the report is always everywhere, and achieved for future purposes.

Christians held that Jesus life isn't a common life as many significant things happened in his days. Resurrection isn't common, feeding of 10,000 folks without having food reserve isnt common, people were on the sea fishing and saw Peter catwalking on the water...this isn't common, ascension isn't also common. When he was been baptised, a voice came from heaven and many people across the province heard it...this too isn't common. The roman soldier he glue his ear, he isn't jew and such act should be strange. All these incidents ain't common and very strange. There should be a document recording it from the contemporaries.

Even if it is records confirming just one of the incidents, it will authenticate the others. An absence of any record is same as saying it didn't happen.


If I may ask, how did you trust a secondary source data in the gospels?

I've told you my friend, we are not to quarrel over this issue.
If you don't believe in the gospels well i do and i'm not forcing my beliefs on you.
During the time Jesus walked the earth many nations around the Mediterranean knew very well that there is a God in Israel that is invincible! So when Jesus began performing miracles it was not difficult to believe.
Chinua Achebe's writing whether being an eyewitness or not will still fade away in the minds of Nigerians who have witnessed killings more intense than a face off battle. Many Nigerians have died not because they were prepared for war like the Biafrans but just to wake up in the middle of the night been attacked by fully armed men whereas they themselves are harmless and helpless.
But we are talking about events that happened almost two thousand years ago, all the eyewitness and their contemporaries are no more but what the man from Nazareth prophesied is now happening for real in our own generation!

You wanted to dismiss his prophecy by saying people have always fight wars, but there has never been a global war when all the countries on planet earth is involved!
And the reason sounds preposterous, just because two or three persons had issues!
What about food shortages? Well despite all the technological advancement we have, people continue to die in millions due to malnutrition whereas we've developed mechanized farming to the point where we can meet the demands of the tenth generations to come!
Pestilences!
The advancement of pharmacy in our age has gone beyond what a contemporary of Jesus could imagine, one could think that with all the gadgets we have today, there shouldn't be any form of disease that can take mankind unaware but look thousands are dying on daily basis due to diseases!
Hatred amongst humans!
Despite the influence of communication in the world today, people are still clamoring for DIVISION, i grew up to meet Nigeria having 12 states, my dad said it was just three but today we're now having 36 states in the same Nigeria and the people are still agitating for more states!

With all of these, Jesus foretold that a group of people will begin to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers globally, and everyone will notice that the bond is stronger than ever. Yes! People have come from different races and countries to form one family in my own eyes!
So my friend, i'm not pestering you to join me, if you don't believe in Jesus of Nazareth, well i do!

Maximus69:


I'm sorry if i've offended you in any way, please i tender an apology!

Let's talk about taking part in the military.

First and foremost, you need to know that any organized army is targeted at disarming their opponents NOT killing them. If you carry your weapons on your head or white flag it simply means you've surrendered for peacemaking, and any soldier who aim at you will definitely be sentenced to death.
For your information, that's why the Nigerian armies aren't killing the insurgents as many civilians like you would have suggested. Those insurgents knows the rules, so whenever they're captured, the next thing is to carry their weapons on their head meaning they've surrendered any no soldier has the right to aim at them anymore!

But we're talking about PEACE here, so how do you go about peace making?

I want you to understand that the first step is to meet one on one with your neighbor to iron out your differences through dialogue. That's exactly what Jesus of Nazareth introduced.
If your neighbor said he won't live by the same standard as you do, then you find a common ground so as to cohabit in peace.
What you're seeing those terrorists doing today didn't begin with Islam, it was the Romans that brought the idea of using religion to blur the sense of their captives.
Go and read the history of the Roman Catholic Church and you'll see that it's what they laid down that triggered the Muslims to start fighting religious wars up and down!
The Muslims believe that Christians have used the crusades to steal most of their lands and now they're fighting to have it back, but more to that they now feel they can dominate the world if they did not relent in their effort.

So if Christianity was practiced the way Jesus commissioned it WITHOUT the use of force, Muhammad who later claim to be a prophet have no option than to adopt the same peaceful program, but by the time Muhammad walked this planet, it was the Roman Catholic Crusaders that were conquering villages, towns and cities in Jesus name that he met claiming Christians!

So Jesus never taught his followers to force their beliefs on others or fight with swords to conquer people for him just as those white colonial masters came to do back then in Africa. They did the same thing to the Arabs back then that's why the Arabs are now coming back to do the same thing thinking anyone carrying Bible is for the Catholic Crusaders!

You have not offended me in anyway. But it's annoying to hear you continue to talk of peace making that's not felt by anyone.

The question is how do you disarm the mindless terrorist who have been ravaging the nothern part of this country. is it through dialogue? You have said yes. Then why has your group not gone there to dialogue with them to make peace? What is stopping you from entering sambisa forest ? Please I need reasonable answers and not your usual evasive response

triplechoice:


You have not offended me in anyway. But it's annoying to hear you continue to talk of peace making that's not felt by anyone.

The question is how do you disarm the mindless terrorist who have been ravaging the nothern part of this country. is it through dialogue? You have said yes. Then why has your group not gone there to dialogue with them to make peace? What is stopping you from entering sambisa forest ? Please I need reasonable answers and not your usual evasive response

You missed a point there Sir!

Intelligent individuals takes the step to make peace when you and the next person are still living as Neighbours, NOT after they've been provoked! Proverbs 15:1, 17:14

For your information Sir, every individuals nursing contrary opinion to yours is a prospective emeny in the making!

So going to pay them a courtesy visit when you're not invited is the best way to show that you're for peace. After you've rubbed minds with them, they'll feel their is no danger coming from your side and so they'll be ever ready to PROTECT you not EXTERMINATE you.

But when you go out on the broad way cursing them with megaphones in the name of preaching, they'll not feel safe around you, and according to the military intelligence the best form of DEFENSE is to ATTACK.

Jesus sent us to teach people all these ideas but when they turned against us thinking it's nonsense, we will leave their territories for them {Matthew 10:23} time will tell whether we are right or wrong!

The secret of this is that Satan (an intelligent spirit being) and his cohorts knew through all the events happening now that God's kingdom will come soon and they don't want any human to survive into God's kingdom, so they're the ones instigating people into killing one another.

So what you're seeing in the northern part of Nigeria today will soon become a global phenomenon, gradually people are developing intense hatred for their fellow man, the only way to prove your innocence is the house to house preaching and teaching that Jesus commissioned.
Of course it's not the solution but it's the only way to prove you're guiltless in all of these!
Thanks!

FOLYKAZE:


That above is brilliant. It only takes big heart to admit the reality of the Bible.

It also takes big understanding gained from big objective research.

People get crucified for it, as we learn from the stories of very highly learned Jesus and as Plato taught it in his cave.

Maximus69:


You missed a point there Sir!

Intelligent individuals takes the step to make peace when you and the next person are still living as Neighbours, NOT after they've been provoked! Proverbs 15:1, 17:14

For your information Sir, every individuals nursing contrary opinion to yours is a prospective emeny in the making!

So going to pay them a courtesy visit when you're not invited is the best way to show that you're for peace. After you've rubbed minds with them, they'll feel their is no danger coming from your side and so they'll be ever ready to PROTECT you not EXTERMINATE you.

But when you go out on the broad way cursing them with megaphones in the name of preaching, they'll not feel safe around you, and according to the military intelligence the best form of DEFENSE is to ATTACK.

Jesus sent us to teach people all these ideas but when they turned against us thinking it's nonsense, we will leave their territories for them {Matthew 10:23} time will tell whether we are right or wrong!

The secret of this is that Satan (an intelligent spirit being) and his cohorts knew through all the events happening now that God's kingdom will come soon and they don't want any human to survive into God's kingdom, so they're the ones instigating people into killing one another.

So what you're seeing in the northern part of Nigeria today will soon become a global phenomenon, gradually people are developing intense hatred for their fellow man, the only way to prove your innocence is the house to house preaching and teaching that Jesus commissioned.
Of course it's not the solution but it's the only way to prove you're guiltless in all of these!
Thanks!

You continue to avoid the real issue.There are evil people everywhere.They can be your neighbors without you knowing it.These are the armed robbers , kidnappers and ritualist .how do you deal with these people or deter them? is it through dialogue ? how do you dialogue with people who hide true identity to perpetrate evil?

As for the Boko Haram terrorist, the number of people they have killed or continue to kill does not bother you? and it's non of your business if the killings continue since your organization is against the use of arms to fight or deter them?

Where is the love that you preach if you are not bothered about what is happening to your neighbors? and according to Jesus, who are your neighbors?

See, I don't have anything against jw since I know most of members are to a large extent well behaved and can hardly be found engaged in any criminal activity.So you are less of a touble to any community that you live in.But you can do more by at least supporting those who put their lives at risk to ensure that those who plan to rob or kidnap you are deterred from doing so.
At night when you sleep and snore there are security personnels who patrol the streets to ensure you are safe ,Some of them even lose their lives when they encounter this evil people Any security personel killed in these encounters has made a sacrifice with his life for you and I.You don't use watch tower or awake magazines to deal with these people if you are unfortunate to meet with them.They only dialogue they understand is force





[/quote]

triplechoice:






You continue to avoid the real issue.There are evil people everywhere.They can be your neighbors without you knowing it.These are the armed robbers , kidnappers and ritualist .how do you deal with these people or deter them? is it through dialogue ? how do you dialogue with people who hide true identity to perpetrate evil?

As for the Boko Haram terrorist, the number of people they have killed or continue to kill does not bother you? and it's non of your business if the killings continue since your organization is against the use of arms to fight or deter them?

Where is the love that you preach if you are not bothered about what is happening to your neighbors? and according to Jesus, who are your neighbors?

See, I don't have anything against jw since I know most of members are to a large extent well behaved and can hardly be found engaged in any criminal activity.So you are less of a touble to any community that you live in.But you can do more by at least supporting those who put their lives at risk to ensure that those who plan to rob or kidnap you are deterred from doing so.
At night when you sleep and snore there are security personnels who patrol the streets to ensure you are safe ,Some of them even lose their lives when they encounter this evil people Any security personel killed in these encounters has made a sacrifice with his life for you and I.You don't use watch tower or awake magazines to deal with these people if you are unfortunate to meet with them.They only dialogue they understand is force

Why the mention.?

Unfortunate:

Why the mention.?

Sorry was a mistake. The reply was for maximus. Pls ignore

triplechoice:


Sorry was a mistake. The reply was for maximus. Pls ignore

Alright.
Go in peace.

Maximus69:


I've told you my friend, we are not to quarrel over this issue.
If you don't believe in the gospels well i do and i'm not forcing my beliefs on you.
During the time Jesus walked the earth many nations around the Mediterranean knew very well that there is a God in Israel that is invincible! So when Jesus began performing miracles it was not difficult to believe.
Chinua Achebe's writing whether being an eyewitness or not will still fade away in the minds of Nigerians who have witnessed killings more intense than a face off battle. Many Nigerians have died not because they were prepared for war like the Biafrans but just to wake up in the middle of the night been attacked by fully armed men whereas they themselves are harmless and helpless.
But we are talking about events that happened almost two thousand years ago, all the eyewitness and their contemporaries are no more but what the man from Nazareth prophesied is now happening for real in our own generation!

You wanted to dismiss his prophecy by saying people have always fight wars, but there has never been a global war when all the countries on planet earth is involved!
And the reason sounds preposterous, just because two or three persons had issues!
What about food shortages? Well despite all the technological advancement we have, people continue to die in millions due to malnutrition whereas we've developed mechanized farming to the point where we can meet the demands of the tenth generations to come!
Pestilences!
The advancement of pharmacy in our age has gone beyond what a contemporary of Jesus could imagine, one could think that with all the gadgets we have today, there shouldn't be any form of disease that can take mankind unaware but look thousands are dying on daily basis due to diseases!
Hatred amongst humans!
Despite the influence of communication in the world today, people are still clamoring for DIVISION, i grew up to meet Nigeria having 12 states, my dad said it was just three but today we're now having 36 states in the same Nigeria and the people are still agitating for more states!

With all of these, Jesus foretold that a group of people will begin to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers globally, and everyone will notice that the bond is stronger than ever. Yes! People have come from different races and countries to form one family in my own eyes!
So my friend, i'm not pestering you to join me, if you don't believe in Jesus of Nazareth, well i do!

Need I remember you we are discussing about Jesus's historicity, not his messsge?

Can you prove Jesus walked on this earth 2000yrs ago?

FOLYKAZE:


Tell him to read about Jainism if he wants peaceful and non violence religion system. JW claiming peaceful and non violent but violently killing animals, denying animal right and eating meat, even when the bible said “For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.” Eccl. 3:19-20

Apt response though

He does not want to come to terms with the short comings of his group. .JW always believe they are infallible. They will never agree to anything that you say even if you present them with hard evidence. It's only what they're taught and made to accept as truth that they know
Though I must have to admit that,despite my criticism, they hardly cause trouble or engaged in criminal activities wherever you find them.That's one of the good things about this group. If other religious groups in this country can emulate them , then crime would be greatly reduced. Yahoo boys are active members in most of these Churches you see around and they pay tithe regularly from the proceeds of what they do

triplechoice:

You continue to avoid the real issue.There are evil people everywhere.They can be your neighbors without you knowing it.These are the armed robbers , kidnappers and ritualist .how do you deal with these people or deter them? is it through dialogue ? how do you dialogue with people who hide true identity to perpetrate evil?

As for the Boko Haram terrorist, the number of people they have killed or continue to kill does not bother you? and it's non of your business if the killings continue since your organization is against the use of arms to fight or deter them?

Where is the love that you preach if you are not bothered about what is happening to your neighbors? and according to Jesus, who are your neighbors?

See, I don't have anything against jw since I know most of members are to a large extent well behaved and can hardly be found engaged in any criminal activity.So you are less of a touble to any community that you live in.But you can do more by at least supporting those who put their lives at risk to ensure that those who plan to rob or kidnap you are deterred from doing so.
At night when you sleep and snore there are security personnels who patrol the streets to ensure you are safe ,Some of them even lose their lives when they encounter this evil people Any security personel killed in these encounters has made a sacrifice with his life for you and I.You don't use watch tower or awake magazines to deal with these people if you are unfortunate to meet with them.They only dialogue they understand is force

The underlined is where i will comment on.

Today we're numbering 8.7 millions globally and everywhere you find us, it's the same way we behave. One thing i'll like you to know is that most of us were worse than those people you called "EVIL", but how come we have changed into what you know today?
Well Jehovah's Witnesses in our neighborhood came to knock on our doors, many of them we insulted, abused, cursed even assaulted physically!
But they persisted with their mild presentation until our stony hearts were melted.
Had it been they have used force on us, i for one would have loved that it will give me the guts to show them the stuff i'm made of.
But NO, they remained calm, cool and collected.
For your information, there is nothing as in NOTHING anyone can do to stop the menace Satan is bringing on the human race!
Jesus said it will continue to worsen than this. We have NO LIFE NOW, all we have is the opportunity to prove to God that we're spotless and guiltless in the blood of innocent people!
If the next minute means our life, so be it our running from one place to another is not to live comfortably but to get the message across if possible to others who might need to hear it!
This world is doomed Sir!
Only God's Kingdom is the lasting solution, if the people like let them gather more weapons for their security personnels, the next minute the same security personnel may turn against the ones he is paid to protect all because he wants what they are protecting "material things of life"
So we fully understand what you are thinking Sir, but the truth is it's not going to work. Satan is winning more people to his side than ever, the only way to play your part is to join Jehovah's Witnesses to PREACH and TEACH perhaps to snatch some away from Satan and make them Jehovah's Witnesses, i'm sure you now know what it means if you're able to do that!

FOLYKAZE:


Need I remember you we are discussing about Jesus's historicity, not his messsge?

Can you prove Jesus walked on this earth 2000yrs ago?

There is no time for that now Sir {Ephesians 5:15-16} if you don't believe Jesus' historicity it's OK!

Our message is not for people who want to argue, it's for those who feels bad about what's happening on planet earth and wants to know what will be the end of all these.

You've said your mind, you feel things will never change and it's humans that can make the needed changes if possible.

So go and do what you feel is worthwhile Sir, i'm a Christian and my business is to search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6, 15:24} meaning those who believe in God's ability to restore things to order.
You're not of that sort so there is no need wasting our time on fruitless arguments! Philippians 2:14; Colossians 2:4; 1Timothy 6:4; Titus 3:9

Thanks Sir!

triplechoice:


[u]He does not want to come to terms with the short comings of his group. .JW always believe they are infallible. They will never agree to anything that you say even if you present them with hard evidence. It's only what they're taught and made to accept as truth that they know[/b]
Though I must have to admit that,despite my criticism, they hardly cause trouble or engaged in criminal activities wherever you find them.That's one of the good things about this group. If other religious groups in this country can emulate them , then crime would be greatly reduced. Yahoo boys are active members in most of these Churches you see around and they pay tithe regularly from the proceeds of what they do

The underlined!

That's what it means to be a Christian Sir.

Jesus is God's only begotten son, means there is no better idea elsewhere apart from what Jesus taught us to do!

So we're not misinformed churchgoers who are tossed about here and there with all sorts of human philosophy, our mind is fixed on what we learnt from Jesus!

You yourself have born a thorough witness to the fact of Jesus' ability by saying "if all those claiming Christians are like Jehovah's Witnesses, there will be PEACE" 1Peter 2:12

Well i want you to know that our Master Lord and King is the Prince of Peace that's why you can testify to the efficacy of his works on us. Isaiah 9:6
Remember that we did not fall from the sky, we were born, bread and brought up in your midst so think deeply about what could have made us so unique in virtuous deeds! Matthew 5:14-16

Thanks!

Maximus69:


The underlined is where i will comment on.

Today we're numbering 8.7 millions globally and everywhere you find us, it's the same way we behave. One thing i'll like you to know is that most of us were worse than those people you called "EVIL", but how come we have changed into what you know today?
Well Jehovah's Witnesses in our neighborhood came to knock on our doors, many of them we insulted, abused, cursed even assaulted physically!
But they persisted with their mild presentation until our stony hearts were melted.
Had it been they have used force on us, i for one would have loved that it will give me the guts to show them the stuff i'm made of.
But NO, they remained calm, cool and collected.
For your information, there is nothing as in NOTHING anyone can do to stop the menace Satan is bringing on the human race!
Jesus said it will continue to worsen than this. We have NO LIFE NOW, all we have is the opportunity to prove to God that we're spotless and guiltless in the blood of innocent people!
If the next minute means our life, so be it our running from one place to another is not to live comfortably but to get the message across if possible to others who might need to hear it!
This world is doomed Sir!
Only God's Kingdom is the lasting solution, if the people like let them gather more weapons for their security personnels, the next minute the same security personnel may turn against the ones he is paid to protect all because he wants what they are protecting "material things of life"
So we fully understand what you are thinking Sir, but the truth is it's not going to work. Satan is winning more people to his side than ever, the only way to play your part is to join Jehovah's Witnesses to PREACH and TEACH perhaps to snatch some away from Satan and make them Jehovah's Witnesses, i'm sure you now know what it means if you're able to do that!

You and your group advocates that people should not carry arms to confront criminal elements. But do you deny the fact those who carry arms(security personnels) are indirectly doing so on your behalf by protecting you with it.

If you say they are on their own and you don't want to be a party to it, then just like your group members abstain from blood, you should let the government of each country where you have your kingdom Hall know that you don't need armed men protecting you since it's against what Jesus says Infact that was what Jesus did when he stopped his disciples from fighting back with swords as he was about to be arrested by the Roman soldiers So please obey Jesus by telling the government that on no account should any armed security personnel try to protect your members whenever they see that you're under any form attack. Then people will truly know that you serious about it.untill then, you should accept that armed men are currently protecting you.And please don't deny this

triplechoice:


You and your group advocates that people should not carry arms to confront criminal elements. But do you deny the fact those who carry arms(security personnels) are indirectly doing so on your behalf by protecting you with it.

If you say they are on their own and you don't want to be a party to it, then just like your group members abstain from blood, you should let the government of each country where you have your kingdom Hall know that you don't need armed men protecting you since it's against what Jesus says Infact that was what Jesus did when he stopped his disciples from fighting back with swords as he was about to be arrested by the Roman soldiers So please obey Jesus by telling the government that on no account should any armed security personnel try to protect your members whenever they see that you're under any form attack. Then people will truly know that you serious about it.untill then, you should accept that armed men are currently protecting you.And please don't deny this

There is no legal job JWs won't participate except TWO.
Politics
Military
Apart from these two we are ready to do everything within our capability to serve people and make life easy for ourselves and our neighbours.
Jesus asked us to give Caesar his things and that is paying our TAXES, let them do whatever pleases them with it.
But to participate in the use of weapons, he strictly warned us saying "all those who lead by the sword, will perish by the sword" Matthew 26:52
Of course we lead by examples, showing everyone that all we need is to make peace with people around us instead of forcing our intentions on them with weapons!
Let everyone be given equal right in everything we do on planet earth, each person deserves a house, a car and all other necessarily things of life EQUALLY including the same salary for everyone from the age of 18, and see if we will need weapons for any reason again.

But i'm sure you'll say "that's not possible!"
Well it's possible just that humans are fund of subjecting their fellow man to ridicule, intimidation, humiliation, deprivation and by the end of the day they will distribute weapons for the same deprived ones only to ask them to protect them and their stolen material things from the same deprived people.
That's why we are saying "humans are deceiving themselves, there can never be PEACE without equal right and justice".

That's what God's Kingdom is coming to do!

Maximus69:


There is no time for that now Sir {Ephesians 5:15-16} if you don't believe Jesus' historicity it's OK!

Our message is not for people who want to argue, it's for those who feels bad about what's happening on planet earth and wants to know what will be the end of all these.

You've said your mind, you feel things will never change and it's humans that can make the needed changes if possible.

So go and do what you feel is worthwhile Sir, i'm a Christian and my business is to search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6, 15:24} meaning those who believe in God's ability to restore things to order.
You're not of that sort so there is no need wasting our time on fruitless arguments! Philippians 2:14; Colossians 2:4; 1Timothy 6:4; Titus 3:9

Thanks Sir!

There is always time to do the right thing. Investing much time on the wrong thing, just like you are doing, is baseless.

The thread isn't designed for arguement but an establishment of fact, creation of a reality, and provision of evidence which put away every reasonable doubt. But you want to put the cart before the horse, a total waste of time and effort.

The message is less important, the focus of this thread is to establish the existence of the messenger. The veracity of the messenger authenticate the message. And inability to prove the messenger exist, the message worths nothing.

Think about it, you came preaching to me about how God loved me, and I responded that I know nothing about God. My respond has put the initial God's love message to rest, what should come on board is establishment of God existence and essentisl evidence to buttress he does exist. Forcing the initial God's love message is useless if you can't prove God exist first.

In the bible, apostle Paul had to come in when his followers were having doubt if a Man called Jesus could be dead and truly ressurected. 1 Cor 15 clearly shows Paul followers had doubt about the historicity of the resurrection, not the message Paul wanted to pass through resurrection.

I want us to focus more on the historicity of Jesus's life and activities. I understand you believe this man existed, he walked and preached in Galilee, and that he ascended into heaven. But how true are these things historically? Did it happened literally or it is allegory? If it is the formal, where is your evidence?

triplechoice:


He does not want to come to terms with the short comings of his group. .JW always believe they are infallible. They will never agree to anything that you say even if you present them with hard evidence. It's only what they're taught and made to accept as truth that they know
Though I must have to admit that,despite my criticism, they hardly cause trouble or engaged in criminal activities wherever you find them.That's one of the good things about this group. If other religious groups in this country can emulate them , then crime would be greatly reduced. Yahoo boys are active members in most of these Churches you see around and they pay tithe regularly from the proceeds of what they do

Jains are better than jw in term of peaceful coexistence and upholding ultimate sacredness of life

Maximus69:


The underlined is where i will comment on.

Today we're numbering 8.7 millions globally and everywhere you find us, it's the same way we behave. One thing i'll like you to know is that most of us were worse than those people you called "EVIL", but how come we have changed into what you know today?
Well Jehovah's Witnesses in our neighborhood came to knock on our doors, many of them we insulted, abused, cursed even assaulted physically!
But they persisted with their mild presentation until our stony hearts were melted.
Had it been they have used force on us, i for one would have loved that it will give me the guts to show them the stuff i'm made of.
But NO, they remained calm, cool and collected.
For your information, there is nothing as in NOTHING anyone can do to stop the menace Satan is bringing on the human race!
Jesus said it will continue to worsen than this. We have NO LIFE NOW, all we have is the opportunity to prove to God that we're spotless and guiltless in the blood of innocent people!
If the next minute means our life, so be it our running from one place to another is not to live comfortably but to get the message across if possible to others who might need to hear it!
This world is doomed Sir!
Only God's Kingdom is the lasting solution, if the people like let them gather more weapons for their security personnels, the next minute the same security personnel may turn against the ones he is paid to protect all because he wants what they are protecting "material things of life"
So we fully understand what you are thinking Sir, but the truth is it's not going to work. Satan is winning more people to his side than ever, the only way to play your part is to join Jehovah's Witnesses to PREACH and TEACH perhaps to snatch some away from Satan and make them Jehovah's Witnesses, i'm sure you now know what it means if you're able to do that!

I do not want to take on so as not to derail the thread. What is peace when you don't respect life, thereby you brutally kill animals and feed on their flesh, and also deny life saving blood transfusion to the sick. The gospel quoted jesus saying that he didn't come to bring peace to earth but sword? What is sword used for? Peacemaking right? It went further saying no one can follow Jesus without HATING his father, mother and extended family. Is HATRED part of your brotherhood? You can deceive triplechoice but not me.

That aside, can you for once prove Jesus existed and walked on earth? Or should we summarily conclude in the absence of evidence that there is no Jesus and what ever syroy and messahe ascribed to him is baseless?

FOLYKAZE:


There is always time to do the right thing. Investing much time on the wrong thing, just like you are doing, is baseless.

The thread isn't designed for arguement but an establishment of fact, creation of a reality, and provision of evidence which put away every reasonable doubt. But you want to put the cart before the horse, a total waste of time and effort.

The message is less important, the focus of this thread is to establish the existence of the messenger. The veracity of the messenger authenticate the message. And inability to prove the messenger exist, the message worths nothing.

Think about it, you came preaching to me about how God loved me, and I responded that I know nothing about God. My respond has put the initial God's love message to rest, what should come on board is establishment of God existence and essentisl evidence to buttress he does exist. Forcing the initial God's love message is useless if you can't prove God exist first.

In the bible, apostle Paul had to come in when his followers were having doubt if a Man called Jesus could be dead and truly ressurected. 1 Cor 15 clearly shows Paul followers had doubt about the historicity of the resurrection, not the message Paul wanted to pass through resurrection.

I want us to focus more on the historicity of Jesus's life and activities. I understand you believe this man existed, he walked and preached in Galilee, and that he ascended into heaven. But how true are these things historically? Did it happened literally or it is allegory? If it is the formal, where is your evidence?

I heard of someone and everything i heard about him seems unbelievable, so i wish there could be proof of his existence.
But i learnt that apart from all what i heard, he also predicted some events and said his own followers will be doing something extraordinary during the time when those things are having their fulfilment.
OK i still feel that's not enough, then what he said began happening in my own eyes, and not only that i can see some people claiming to be his followers DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN A UNIQUE WAY AND ACCOMPLISHING WHAT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE!

My uncle used to say "a warrior returned from battle, explaining how many people he killed during the war, but due to his display of how the war goes 8 life goats died as he was matching up and down" If i couldn't witness the casualties at the battle field, am i still blind to the casualties here at home?

My friend, you can continue looking for the evidence to prove whether Jesus truly existed or not, we are looking for those who believe this is not how things will continue to be so that we can inculcate in them a brighter future that Jesus promised, we're seeing it's fulfilment already and we are busy teaching them how it will become a reality.
So keep searching for the proof backing Jesus' historicity, i wish you success in your search!

Maximus69:


There is no legal job JWs won't participate except TWO.
Politics
Military
Apart from these two we are ready to do everything within our capability to serve people and make life easy for ourselves and our neighbours.
Jesus asked us to give Caesar his things and that is paying our TAXES, let them do whatever pleases them with it.
But to participate in the use of weapons, he strictly warned us saying "all those who lead by the sword, will perish by the sword" Matthew 26:52
Of course we lead by examples, showing everyone that all we need is to make peace with people around us instead of forcing our intentions on them with weapons!
Let everyone be given equal right in everything we do on planet earth, each person deserves a house, a car and all other necessarily things of life EQUALLY including the same salary for everyone from the age of 18, and see if we will need weapons for any reason again.

But i'm sure you'll say "that's not possible!"
Well it's possible just that humans are fund of subjecting their fellow man to ridicule, intimidation, humiliation, deprivation and by the end of the day they will distribute weapons for the same deprived ones only to ask them to protect them and their stolen material things from the same deprived people.
That's why we are saying "humans are deceiving themselves, there can never be PEACE without equal right and justice".

That's what God's Kingdom is coming to do!

There is no point continuing this argument as we are going to be derailling this thread

You have been rambling and have not been able to provide any reasonable answer to any of my questions . You are only concern with what you believe you are doing right. This is the game you have been playing with Folykaze. Instead of providing an appropriate response to his query , you always find a way to chip in your "peace making" as if that would answer the question asked
And I believe I just worsen it by praising your group.
Good day Maximus ,the peace making expert

triplechoice:


There is no point continuing this argument as we are going to be derailling this thread

You have been rambling and have not been able to provide any reasonable answer to any of my questions . You are only concern with what you believe you are doing right. This is the game you have been playing with Folykaze. Instead of providing an appropriate response to his query , you always find a way to chip in your "peace making" as if that would answer the question asked
And I believe I just worsen it by praising your group.
Good day Maximus ,the peace making expert

Please i'm really sorry if my responses has been evasive all along Sir!

Our motive is NOT to argue but to tell whoever asks for the reason of the hope in us what we believe!

I guess that's why i've been misunderstood by the way i make my presentation.

Please i never mean to argue Sir!