FOLYKAZE:



I have read both magazines.

LordReed:


Go and ask them they will help you.

Maximus69:


But they don't have any idea of what's wrong with me like you!

Moreover you've been my friend for quite some time now chatting with me, so why can't you who knows the ailment and the medicine that's best for it assist me?

At least you should be useful for once!

LordReed:


They are not magicians, you need to be there to be diagnosed and then treated. Go there you need it.

Maximus69:


But you're the one who DIAGNOSED through some remote control to be certain of the ailment!

You should know better than those to whom i must go before they could find something in me!

FOLYKAZE:

This is apt and precise. As a matter of fact, the curious OP only want to know the basis of christian faith. And like you said, the believers are not in about evidence, not because there is a reliable and dependable evidences, but because faith requires no logical or empirical evidences. In your own thinking, believers should accept every dogma without questioning or seeking validation. I wish MuttleyLaff, Maximus69 and emilo2stay can agree with you.

1...
2. The general consensus of most scholars is that the synoptic gospel were copied from Gospel of Mark...
3. The book of John was not written by Apostle John....John 21:24 didn't give identity of the said disciple...
4. The gospel of Luke, like you said is written by Luke the evangelist. Luke 1:1-2 mentions that Luke knows of other written sources of Jesus' life, and that he has investigated in order to gather the most information. The author indicated that he from witness accounts...
5. Gospel of Matthew could not have been written by....
The gospel is largely subjective works of people who ain't direct witness. It is evident that the gospels are largely copies of copies of oral traditions and full of propaganda

The doubt is in 1 Cor 15:3,14,17. Can you deal with those verses please? And by doing that, please keep your emotion asides.

Keep the emotion aside, and take a deep breathe. Most importantly, save the sermon for your sheeple who accept fantasy without seeking for logical and empirical evidence. Thanks.

Finallydead:

I like that you didn't challenge logic when it worshipped God and betrayed you in math(as it will do in all fields of knowledge) but simply ignored it. Says a lot.
When you are able to use your logic to make the number infinity conform to finite math principles, It will justify your search for a logical basis for our infinite faith. Till then, you're only hypocritical to ask any believer to explain faith to fit logic and so you now see why I won't tow that line with you and will probably cease to reply you henceforth.

Finallydead:

Take note that I never claimed to not care for evidence. In fact, I care much about evidence, spiritual and physical, aware of spiritual being the greater. But a billion physical evidences, useful as they may be, can add nothing to my faith, it could only add to my mental knowledge, which has its use.

Finallydead:

To clarify Luke1:1-3 for the genuine inquirers. Luke 1:1-3 must be taken in two parts. v1-2 separate from v3. In v1-2, Luke is saying many had written narratives as had been taught to the whole church by the eyewitnesses from the start, so some important material may have been lost in transit(these second hand narratives were not included in the bible) . In v3, however, he is saying, he has a more privileged position than such to give a narrative because he had firsthand, exact(in the greek) and circumspect knowledge of the matter from the very beginning as other eyewitnesses(which he proved in his being the most detailed) , hence felt the need to write to recover some relevant missing pieces.

KJV
Luke 1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

NASB
Luke 1.1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
1.2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesss and servants of the word,
1.3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent, Theophilous;

Finallydead:

No. I will not condescend to that. If you are a graduate, you must know how to read compositions and not isolating sentences from paragraphs to lie to yourself. Every reader just needs to read the whole composition of 1Cor15 to see your blatant, shameless lies. Thank God Paul never even put chapters or verses.

Finallydead:

The healthy dont need a doctor but the sick. Remeber, as I said before, I'm for evidence. And your own empirical evidence must have proven to you that you will still sin against your conscience, reasoning and God's laws except of course you no longer value your own empirical evidence. So the scripture is proven right, that you need God the Saviour.

EMILO2STAY:
folks like you reject the bible and christ only to subscribe to the theories of big bang and evolution. I can give you archeological evidence. But can you also give me eye witness account of the big band? Or even a tangible evidence of evolution and big bang if not for theories.
If you call it fables, then what about the big bang theory said to happen 14billion years ago? I noticed you are avoiding that question.

LordReed:


I didn't diagnose you, I said you needed help. Learn to read and understand.

FOLYKAZE:


When did I tell you or mentioned on this forum that I subscribe to the theories of big bang and evolution?

FOLYKAZE:


When did I tell you or mentioned on this forum that I subscribe to the theories of big bang and evolution?

Maximus69:


Someone who could sense that another need help should be in the best position to say what type of help!

LordReed:


I told you what type of help you need, that is not a diagnosis.

Maximus69:


One who is fond of accumulating information for no practical benefits and one who selects what type of info is useful for benefits surely need not continue arguing fruitlessly!

Maximus69:

Have you gotten the books?

Just welcome Jehovah's Witnesses and ask for those books, you can make voluntary contributions for the printing but if you can't do that don't bother God's organization only want you to show appreciation for the books by studying them to know more about our Master, Lord and King "Jesus Christ"

God bless you!

EMILO2STAY:
your words here shows you lean towards that angle. There is no middle ground bro. You are either here or there.

FOLYKAZE:
@Maximus69 , I have been unable to get those two books you required I get from jw members. I have met with couple of them but it seem they don't have it available. One promised to get it on request from Benin but not hearing from him again. Is there no soft copy or pdf of the said books?

Maximus69:


You need two more books to read, then i'm sure you'll be able to answer the question yourself and even help others to know more as to what we believe about Jesus of Nazareth!

(1) The greatest man who ever lived!

(2) Jesus the way the truth the life!

FOLYKAZE:


What did he meant when he said 'none has ascended to heaven except he.

FOLYKAZE:
But history wasn't on his side as no one record his ascension when the gospel claim many people witnessed it. How come there is no witness account of the ascension

budaatum:

It is meant that none had acquired the understanding of the things that are Godly and that come from developing the mind which is in your heavenly head.

budaatum:
You can not be asking why someone was not recording Jesus' ascension on iPhone

Maximus69:


Please go to Google play store download {JW Library} then click on the the icon at the top left, you'll see list of options, click on publications, then click on books. You find them there, you can download as many as possible it's free what you just need is data to access it!

FOLYKAZE:


Max, I got a copy of Jesus the way truth and the light about four days ago. But really, I wasted more than 16hrs scrambling for the historicity of Jesus life and much of his miracles but I can't find any. The book, more like Book of my Bible stories, is written for kids. I don't know why you asked me to get it cause it doesn't address the issue on this thread.
Aside from not addressing the historicity, there are loads of misinformation about the authors of the gospels, no out of the bible sources for keypoints, and lacks historical references.
For one, none of the authors who wrote the for gospels witnessed or saw Jesus in his time.
There is no historical references of when Herod ordered the wholesale massacre of young male children. Also Ceasar Augustus didn't start registration of new babies in Jesus time.
The only historical reference mentioned is Tatian who wrote about Jesus in 170CE, about 140yrs after Jesus death. How can one hold such work written over a century and half as primary source data? What happened to historians in Jesus lifetime? Is it that they don't know anything about him or he didn't exist as been told today?
In short, why do you reference these books? What are the points you want to make from them

FOLYKAZE:


Really? I like this new twist. Does this mean Jesus didn't ascend to Heaven; there was no real ascension and any witness of such is allegorical?

Maximus69:


The Bible itself have provided enough reason why secular history from Jesus' contemporaries can't be found.
It's either you carefully read, diligently study and thoroughly meditate on what was written before and after those gospel accounts that you can see the correlation you desire!

The Jewish religious leaders of his time made sure that he was
accused,
arrested,
detained,
tried,
judged,
sentenced and
executed
all on false charges, they made it seem as if he was a criminal that should be totally forgotten, they don't want his historicity to go beyond his days so they ordered (with threat) his followers to stop talking to people about him! Act 5:28

This are the then renoun religious leaders RECOGNIZED by their colonial masters (Rome), and 33 years after his death Jerusalem and it's temple was totally destroyed by the Romans so that any other secular history about his time was totally burnt to ashes apart from the ones taken into exile by his faithful followers!

So how do you expect to get any info about Jesus of Nazareth from his contemporaries apart from what was penned down by his own followers?

Maximus69:
For your information Sir, two of the gospel writers (Matthew and John) were his closest confidants called Apostles {Matthew 10:2-4} while Luke and Mark are part of his numerous followers who also lived as his contemporaries.

Jehovah's Witnesses wrote everything in those books based on the reports found in the Bible, God's word said out of the mouth of TWO or THREE Witnesses should anything be taken as fact and since there were FOUR different individuals who bore Witness to his historicity, true believers have no reason to doubt their records! Deuteronomy 17:6

Maximus69:
His historicity has been made more intense in the hearts of true believers globally when all what was written as prophecies foretold by Jesus is happening in our own eyes today!
He foretold so many things though most of what he predicted could be taken as COINCIDENTAL, but one can't go unnoticed by sincere and honest hearted intellectuals!

Jesus foretold a time when the world will be divided by politics and racism! And today many ethnic groups are clamoring for new states regional and local government of their own all based on RACISM!

Jesus also foretold that during that same time his own followers will be tearing away from those whose hearts and minds are been driven by Politics and Racism, and they will form one big and happy global family of peace loving worshipers! Jehovah's Witnesses is an indisputable evidence of this today!

So that's enough for faithful and true believers {John 4:42} whether other contemporaries of Jesus apart from his followers wrote anything for or against him, what we've heard, seen and felt in the midst of his true followers (Jehovah's Witnesses) today has vindicated the Bible as authentic and TRUE!

Thank you Sir!

budaatum:

That is my own understanding, that Jesus didn't literally ascend to Heaven, but that he is in. Heaven because words we read about him being where most commonly refer to as heaven.

It's like saying Jesus', and everything else written in a book, is to teach how to live a productive life and is to be used as an example or lesson or reason for living it (depending what you read, for some bits show how not to live, and time has significantly passed just as what is required to live today has also evolved). But you need to understand how tp read first, which seems to be beyond most.

LordReed:
I must confess FOLY you have treated this subject with much incisive punch. I was never happier to have my misconceptions dispelled. And not because I agree with what you've written but because that effort you put into it shows.

Kudos.

FOLYKAZE:


It's my pleasure Your highness Reed.

The discourse have exposes more than I had in mind. This week, I took time to read Bible narration on Israel exile, building of the second temple and the action of Cyrus toward their freedom and project. While unraveling the historicity of the account, a transcript of Cyrus cylinder, a clay cylinder text containing writings from Cyrus, shows that Cyrus had nothing to do with Jew or their development of the temple. The texts indicated that Cyrus only decree that Babylon God Marduk temple should be rebuilt. Historian revealed that Nebodial, the preceding king abandoned worshipping Marduk, and enforced Sin, the moon God from the Northern Babylon on the entire empire. Cyrus reversed this. However, the bible and the flocks of believers twisted and distorted the decree for their own purposes. Cyrus Cylinder invalidates everything written in the bible....

I took the issue to church and Pastor subtly jabbed me, warning that he won't tolerate such discussion in his church. Next sunday topic is about Exodus and Joshua ruling as a judge....my hard hit spot, he go hear am

FOLYKAZE:


I know of a guy called Buzugee who share same idea as above, that the bible accounts is majorly allegorical. I don't have issue with that.

But if I may ask, what is your thought on afterlife. Would there not be rapture and sojourn to heaven in the literal sense? Is everything in the bible allegory