FOLYKAZE:


I do not want to take on so as not to derail the thread. What is peace when you don't respect life, thereby you brutally kill animals and feed on their flesh, and also deny life saving blood transfusion to the sick. The gospel quoted jesus saying that he didn't come to bring peace to earth but sword? What is sword used for? Peacemaking right? It went further saying no one can follow Jesus without HATING his father, mother and extended family. Is HATRED part of your brotherhood? You can deceive triplechoice but not me.

That aside, can you for once prove Jesus existed and walked on earth? Or should we summarily conclude in the absence of evidence that there is no Jesus and what ever syroy and messahe ascribed to him is baseless?

"Wisdom is justified by her children" says the young man from Nazareth.

If you feel it's OK not to eat meat, fine!

And if you believe (trust) in blood transfusion to save life, it's OK!

The SWORD(WEAPON) Jesus meant is not physical but spiritual that's why he himself never used it, never thought his followers how to use it nor supported his followers to make use of physical SWORDS!
The SWORD he meant is God's word (the Bible) Ephesians 6:17

Bible has helped 8.7 million individuals from different races and tongues to become one global family of peace loving worshipers, yet it's this same message that led Russia to call us TERRORISTS!

So Jesus was 100% correct!

The spiritual SWORD he brought has helped in uniting millions of people from different races yet some hate us intensely! John 13:34-35, 17:20-23 compare to Matthew 10:22; John 17:14

If you're not convinced with what you're hearing and seeing presently, even if Jesus should speak from the sky you will not be convinced! Luke 16:37-31

This year on the 7th of April 2020, his TRUE followers will commemorate his death globally!

You are also invited, my brothers and sisters will visit you within the next two weeks with a special invitation!

Never mind we appreciate the research you are making to uncover the facts behind Jesus' historicity, but you can still join us to witness the event.

It's done once a year, you're cordially invited Sir!

Maximus69:
Bible has helped 8.7 million individuals from different races and tongues to become one global family of peace loving worshipers, yet it's this same message that led Russia to call us TERRORISTS!

I thought you said it's 9 million the other day, how come it has reduced to 8.7 million? Are you the one lying or watchtower again?


So Russia persecuting JWs, yet JWs are still in Russia and you were shouting the other day that the commandment Jesus gave was to FLEE.

So why are there still JWs in Russia despite the persecution?

Can you see your hypocrisy life outside now

Emusan:


I thought you said it's 9 million the other day, how come it has reduced to 8.7 million? Are you the one lying or watchtower again?


So Russia persecuting JWs, yet JWs are still in Russia and you were shouting the other day that the commandment Jesus gave was to FLEE.

So why are there still JWs in Russia despite the persecution?

Can you see your hypocrisy life outside now

You're back Mr Runaway!

Almost 9,000,000 and 8.6 million?

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia presently are trapped Sir!

Any opportunity to leave that country they will leave the next minute, no JW is happy when he's not allowed to go preaching and teaching!

Maximus69:
Almost 9,000,000 and 8.6 million?

A liar doesn't have an iota of shame....

You said JWs are about 9million not ALMOST

You can even see how you reduce 8.7million to 8.6million in just one breath of a thread...to tell you how lies full your head.

Is that how fast people are leaving the evil hall?

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia presently are trapped Sir!

Any opportunity to leave that country they will leave the next minute, no JW is happy when he's not allowed to go preaching and teaching!

Can you tell us what trapped them there?

Are there still kingdom hall in Russia?

Emusan:


A liar doesn't have an iota of shame....

You said JWs are about 9million not ALMOST

You can even see how you reduce 8.7million to 8.6million in just one breath of a thread...to tell you how lies full your head.

Is that how fast people are leaving the evil hall?



Can you tell us what trapped them there?

Are there still kingdom hall in Russia?

Keep crying!

Maximus69:

Keep crying!

Shameless liar....
keep lying for your demonic organization

Maximus69:


I heard of someone and everything i heard about him seems unbelievable, so i wish there could be proof of his existence.
But i learnt that apart from all what i heard, he also predicted some events and said his own followers will be doing something extraordinary during the time when those things are having their fulfilment.
OK i still feel that's not enough, then what he said began happening in my own eyes, and not only that i can see some people claiming to be his followers DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN A UNIQUE WAY AND ACCOMPLISHING WHAT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE!

My uncle used to say "a warrior returned from battle, explaining how many people he killed during the war, but due to his display of how the war goes 8 life goats died as he was matching up and down" If i couldn't witness the casualties at the battle field, am i still blind to the casualties here at home?

My friend, you can continue looking for the evidence to prove whether Jesus truly existed or not, we are looking for those who believe this is not how things will continue to be so that we can inculcate in them a brighter future that Jesus promised, we're seeing it's fulfilment already and we are busy teaching them how it will become a reality.
So keep searching for the proof backing Jesus' historicity, i wish you success in your search!

Isn't it weird, that an adult fraternize and bury all senses of reasoning because you found a prophecy without questioning the veracity of the prophet.

Didn't JW, the organisation you hold onto your chest, used Daniel's prophecy to explain world powers and the restoration of God's kingdom? I need to let you know that they used the Daniel prophecy to predict the end of the current world government and the coming of God's kingdom. Do I need to inform you that Daniel is fictional figure and do not exist? The character Daniel appears in the Ugarit, saw vision, had prophecy and protested against Governments. Daniel like figure also appear in different cultures with almost same dream and vision that JW and larger Christian bodies celebrate.

Jesus's alleged prophecy is nothing different from the prediction of pigs, fishes and monkeys that accurately predicted who would win in the last American election. Since their predictions were accurate, would you have become a disciple of animals? Nostradamus did better than Jesus, why ain't you worshipping Nostradamus today for accurately predicting incidents correctly?

However, the predictions of pigs, fishes, monkeys and Nostradamus is plausible more than that of Jesus because they do exist, the existence of Jesus is questionable and even you don't even know for sure if he existed.

The existence of Jesus is paramount. And lack of evidences to prove he existed makes the whole attributions to him invalid and vain just like Apostle Paul argued.

So far so good, you can prove Jesus existence, you can keep his messages in your head, as it worth nothing more than the preaching of Tortoise and Yannibo in African folktale

FOLYKAZE:


The message is less important, the focus of this thread is to establish the existence of the messenger. The veracity of the messenger authenticate the message. And inability to prove the messenger exist, the message worths nothing.

This is doublespeak.

You claim "The message is less important", and that your focus is to "establish the existence of the messenger", yet claim an "inability to prove the messenger exists" makes the "message worths nothing".

It makes me wonder if you never grew up reading [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesop%27s_Fables?wprov=sfla1]the Aesopica[/url] and fiction in general or just refused to learn anything from fiction because they are made up fables. Or perhaps you are just being disingenuous with your argument hoping readers are too dumb to see through you.

Please tell, have you read any of the fictitious dialogues written by Plato? Did they teach you nothing because they are fictitious? Is it worth nothing to teach you to love others? Do you know what the world would be like if 'love others' was never taught, to you and to others around you?

On the prophecy aspect though, it's an error to see Scripture as prophecy par se. Karl Popper's The Poverty of Historicism explains how it is dangerous and bankrupt.

Emusan:


Shameless liar....

keep lying for your demonic organization

FOLYKAZE:


Isn't it weird, that an adult fraternize and bury all senses of reasoning because you found a prophecy without questioning the veracity of the prophet.

Didn't JW, the organisation you hold onto your chest, used Daniel's prophecy to explain world powers and the restoration of God's kingdom? I need to let you know that they used the Daniel prophecy to predict the end of the current world government and the coming of God's kingdom. Do I need to inform you that Daniel is fictional figure and do not exist? The character Daniel appears in the Ugarit, saw vision, had prophecy and protested against Governments. Daniel like figure also appear in different cultures with almost same dream and vision that JW and larger Christian bodies celebrate.

Jesus's alleged prophecy is nothing different from the prediction of pigs, fishes and monkeys that accurately predicted who would win in the last American election. Since their predictions were accurate, would you have become a disciple of animals? Nostradamus did better than Jesus, why ain't you worshipping Nostradamus today for accurately predicting incidents correctly?

However, the predictions of pigs, fishes, monkeys and Nostradamus is plausible more than that of Jesus because they do exist, the existence of Jesus is questionable and even you don't even know for sure if he existed.

The existence of Jesus is paramount. And lack of evidences to prove he existed makes the whole attributions to him invalid and vain just like Apostle Paul argued.

So far so good, you can prove Jesus existence, you can keep his messages in your head, as it worth nothing more than the preaching of Tortoise and Yannibo in African folktale

Please why are you so disturbed about what i CHOSE to believe (trust) in?

I think tolerance is about freedom of speech, expression and worship!

Since i've tolerated your unbelief and take you as my well meaning neighbour, i think you too should just tolerate my beliefs and take me as a well meaning neighbour too, it's not by force you accept my Jesus and you're not to force me to abandon my Jesus either!

Please it's OK, just live and let live my friend!

I will tame all you atheists/freethinkers to believe in the existence of the Supreme Being!

If truthfully you guys believe in freethinking, let's see who is pestering the other to agree with his line of thought here!

See atheist/freethinker o, i was chatting jejeje with someone else he called me out to question me on my beliefs, and after i've humbly, politely and respectfully given him reasons why i believe, he has become so restless, trying to convince me that what i CHOOSE to believe in is worthless.

OK i tried to excuse myself so as to avoid unnecessary arguments, but he's becoming more and more aggressive!

Yet himself and his cohorts will say there is no God who wants humans to have the same line of thought!

Please why can't my atheist/freethinker friend just take me for what i choose to be, since i posed no threat to his existence torí Olórun!

budaatum:
On the prophecy aspect though, it's an error to see Scripture as prophecy par se. Karl Popper's The Poverty of Historicism explains how it is dangerous and bankrupt.

The indisputable TRUTH is that Jesus is a real historical figure, whether some people like it or not there is nothing they can do about the fact.

The only motivating spirit behind those doubting the authenticity of the story of Jesus is rebelliousness and disobedience!

They just don't want anyone or anything to dictate how they should live their lives, but what baffles me is the fact that when they now found someone who wholeheartedly subjected himself or herself to some forms of standards in the name of God (a Supreme Being) they become agitated, and they can't wait to start pestering such a person to conform to their rebellious spirit!

budaatum:

This is doublespeak.

You claim "The message is less important", and that your focus is to "establish the existence of the messenger", yet claim an "inability to prove the messenger exists" makes the "message worths nothing".

It makes me wonder if you never grew up reading [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesop%27s_Fables?wprov=sfla1]the Aesopica[/url] and fiction in general or just refused to learn anything from fiction because they are made up fables. Or perhaps you are just being disingenuous with your argument hoping readers are too dumb to see through you.

Please tell, have you read any of the fictitious dialogues written by Plato? Did they teach you nothing because they are fictitious? Is it worth nothing to teach you to love others? Do you know what the world would be like if 'love others' was never taught, to you and to others around you?

On the first note Budaa, I don't have issue with fiction. It is part of every culture out there, Yoruba inclusive. If you noticed, I applauded when you came out and accept the Jesus stories ain't literal and shouldn't be taken as one. I read and heard many fiction stories, howeer, the narrator must indicate the account is fiction, hence there would be confusion.

If the narrator however inform his listeners that the figures in his account are historic and real, there lies the problem, deceit and distrust. The whole message becomes irrelevant since it is based on lies. And any promises embedded in the message becomes hot air.

In Yoruba culture, message are conveyed as tales. Ethics and morality are personified also. However, the narrator would inform his listeners the account is fable, and would never mix or paint it as fact.

Ifa and Orunmila tells more than 200,000 fables. But every listener acknowledge the stories for what it is, fables. When the narrator say the character in the stories are real, then there are problems.

If Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff coud admit Jesus is fictional, then we could handle his message without worrying about the person of Jesus cuz we acknowledged he doesn't exist. But when they claim and insist he existed, they have to prove their claim to show they ain't selling hot air to us

Maximus69:


The indisputable TRUTH is that Jesus is a real historical figure, whether some people like it or not there is nothing they can do about the fact.

The only motivating spirit behind those doubting the authenticity of the story of Jesus is rebelliousness and disobedience!

They just don't want anyone or anything to dictate how they should live their lives, but what baffles me is the fact that when they now found someone who wholeheartedly subjected himself or herself to some forms of standards in the name of God (a Supreme Being) they become agitated, and they can't wait to start pestering such a person to conform to their rebellious spirit!

Don't just tell us he is real, prove it with evidence. If you are sure he existed, whyis it difficult to prove your claim?

Maximus69:


Please why are you so disturbed about what i CHOSE to believe (trust) in?

I think tolerance is about freedom of speech, expression and worship!

Since i've tolerated your unbelief and take you as my well meaning neighbour, i think you too should just tolerate my beliefs and take me as a well meaning neighbour too, it's not by force you accept my Jesus and you're not to force me to abandon my Jesus either!

Please it's OK, just live and let live my friend!

Did I say I have problem with your belief? After all some people belief Mohammed flew up and cut the moon into half. It is all believe, abject illusion and opium, and those who are intoxicated with it should enjoy their hopelessness.

Isn't it weird. An adult believed a man who didn't exist would come and rule over the earth. He has hope and keep it alive. In the end, he drive into nothingness and all the hope becomes vanity. Wake up Max

LordReed, isn't it weird that Daniel, the popular figure in the bible who dream and had vision that many Christians believe today is fictional? Joshua too is fiction. What exactly is real in the bible?

FOLYKAZE:


Did I say I have problem with your belief? After all some people belief Mohammed flew up and cut the moon into half. It is all believe, abject illusion and opium, and those who are intoxicated with it should enjoy their hopelessness.

Isn't it weird. An adult believed a man who didn't exist would come and rule over the earth. He has hope and keep it alive. In the end, he drive into nothingness and all the hope becomes vanity. Wake up Max

LordReed, isn't it weird that Daniel, the popular figure in the bible who dream and had vision that many Christians believe today is fictional? Joshua too is fiction. What exactly is real in the bible?

I am continually astounded by what I didn't know about this book called the Bible. The way I used to think about it was as if there was sufficient evidence at least for the historical veracity of the key figures. Guess what nobody ever showed me that evidence I just assumed it was there. I am sure many Christians likewise just assume the evidence is there but have never bother to actually look nor has anyone really presented them with evidence, they just believe.

LordReed:


I am continually astounded by what I didn't know about this book called the Bible. The way I used to think about it was as if there was sufficient evidence at least for the historical veracity of the key figures. Guess what nobody ever showed me that evidence I just assumed it was there. I am sure many Christians likewise just assume the evidence is there but have never bother to actually look nor has anyone really presented them with evidence, they just believe.

It's so funny how you people will just be shouting show us evidence, without defining the type of evidence that is sufficient for you.

FOLYKAZE:


On the first note Budaa, I don't have issue with fiction. It is part of every culture out there, Yoruba inclusive. If you noticed, I applauded when you came out and accept the Jesus stories ain't literal and shouldn't be taken as one. I read and heard many fiction stories, howeer, the narrator must indicate the account is fiction, hence there would be confusion.

If the narrator however inform his listeners that the figures in his account are historic and real, there lies the problem, deceit and distrust. The whole message becomes irrelevant since it is based on lies. And any promises embedded in the message becomes hot air.

In Yoruba culture, message are conveyed as tales. Ethics and morality are personified also. However, the narrator would inform his listeners the account is fable, and would never mix or paint it as fact.

Ifa and Orunmila tells more than 200,000 fables. But every listener acknowledge the stories for what it is, fables. When the narrator say the character in the stories are real, then there are problems.

If Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff coud admit Jesus is fictional, then we could handle his message without worrying about the person of Jesus cuz we acknowledged he doesn't exist. But when they claim and insist he existed, they have to prove their claim to show they ain't selling hot air to us

First, I do not have to admit a story I tell you is fiction. It would in fact be rather unusual to admit such a thing if you are not able to work that out yourself. Its like asking mummy and daddy to admit father christmas is unreal when you are not mature enough to work it out yourself, which is part of your development, the working it out, that is.

Second, why would you require others to admit a thing is fiction if they don't see it as fiction? Is it that you undervalue the effort you may have put in to work it out and expect others to be at the stage you might be at without doing the work you've done? Or is it that you can not just accept that you might be at a different developmental stage to the one they are at?

Perhaps listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.[/url] It means each receives (understands) as much as they require (are able or willing to understand).

Paul further advised that [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A11&version=NIV]when people are children, they will talk and reason like children, but when they grow up, as in grow in understanding, they will put the ways of childhood behind them[/url].

You, perhaps, should learn love and compassion for those who do not understand what you are trying to do and perhaps seek understanding yourself instead of that which you seem hell bent on doing here, which is, open peoples' eyes but with no understanding of how the Chief Eye Opener is written to have opened peoples' eyes. In a sense, it's like you playing God trying to create Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff in your own image and with your own understanding, or trying to ram calculus down a non-maths student's throat. Both sides are, in fact trying to create each other to become like one another, with max and muttley trying to make you see what they see with no consideration, you two, that perhaps Christ has not spat in mud and rubbed it in FOLYKAZE's like He has in your own eyes! Could you both explain to me why you'd expect the blind to see what the non-blind see?

Fools undervalue themselves by thinking others should understand and reason like they do. Arrogant fuqs go about rubbing their own understanding, nay! beliefs in the face of children. And smart people learn from those who have done what they wish to do so they can be better at doing it. It is what is meant when it is written [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A11-12&version=NIV]Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”[/url] It means one will be saved (free from the agony of existence), if one understands about Christ.

You might note that John called him [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A1-5&version=NIV]The Word[/url], which means one should therefore learn to read and gain understanding and then wisdom, which would have meant quite a lot in the days it was written when most did not have the opportunity or the ability to read at all.

As to whether Jesus existed or not, you choose to believe he didn't. Some choose to believe he did. Some just learn the lessons regardless since there is really insufficient evidence to point either way with both sides having facts to prove their position sufficiently for themselves. And some just believe, like you do, because that is the level they are at.

Maximus69:


The indisputable TRUTH is that Jesus is a real historical figure, whether some people like it or not there is nothing they can do about the fact.

The only motivating spirit behind those doubting the authenticity of the story of Jesus is rebelliousness and disobedience!

And your job is to dictate how the rebellious and disobedient should live their lives, why?

Does your own Bible say "at the name of Maximus69 their knees shall bow", and not, "Christ alone saves"? Or do you have something to gain in making others an image of yourself against their will?

Why Max, do you seem hell bent in forcing the poor to accept your treasure when you have been warned about [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A6&version=NKJV]pearl eating swines[/url]? Surely, even if you do want others to be an image of you, you ought to first [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A16&version=KJV]make your light so shine before those others so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven[/url]. Or is it that your intention is to glorify something else and not your Father?

Perhaps you too should listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said "[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]the good news is for the poor[/url]". It is the poor that ought to admit their own poverty and reach out for the "good news", and not for one to go about screaming, "you are poor", as some do. To those who don't know they are poor are you are not advised to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A14&version=NIV]shake the dust off your feet and leave them[/url]?

I strongly advise you accept Christ into your life, as in gain understanding and wisdom instead of lacking understanding and believing as a child, and as [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A19&version=NIV]satan, who also believes and shudders![/url]

Emusan:


It's so funny how you people will just be shouting show us evidence, without defining the type of evidence that is sufficient for you.

The type of evidence required here has been repeatedly defined, confirmation of the historicity of biblical figures and events. This includes archeological evidence, geological evidence, biological evidence, contemporary historic accounts, etc.

budaatum:
First, I do not have to admit a story I tell you is fiction. It would in fact be rather unusual to admit such a thing if you are not able to work that out yourself. Its like asking mummy and daddy to admit father christmas is unreal when you are not mature enough to work it out yourself, which is part of your development, the working it out, that is.

Second, why would you require others to admit a thing is fiction if they don't see it as fiction? Is it that you undervalue the effort you may have put in to work it out and expect others to be at the stage you might be at without doing the work you've done? Or is it that you can not just accept that you might be at a different developmental stage to the one they are at?

Perhaps listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.[/url] It means each receives (understands) as much as they require (are able or willing to understand).

Paul further advised that [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A11&version=NIV]when people are children, they will talk and reason like children, but when they grow up, as in grow in understanding, they will put the ways of childhood behind them[/url].

You, perhaps, should learn love and compassion for those who do not understand what you are trying to do and perhaps seek understanding yourself instead of that which you seem hell bent on doing here, which is, open peoples' eyes but with no understanding of how the Chief Eye Opener is written to have opened peoples' eyes. In a sense, it's like you playing God trying to create Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff in your own image and with your own understanding, or trying to ram calculus down a non-maths student's throat. Both sides are, in fact trying to create each other to become like one another, with max and muttley trying to make you see what they see with no consideration, you two, that perhaps Christ has not spat in mud and rubbed it in FOLYKAZE's like He has in your own eyes! Could you both explain to me why you'd expect the blind to see what the non-blind see?

Fools undervalue themselves by thinking others should understand and reason like they do. Arrogant fuqs go about rubbing their own understanding, nay! beliefs in the face of children. And smart people learn from those who have done what they wish to do so they can be better at doing it. It is what is meant when it is written [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A11-12&version=NIV]Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”[/url] It means one will be saved (free from the agony of existence), if one understands about Christ.

You might note that John called him [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A1-5&version=NIV]The Word[/url], which means one should therefore learn to read and gain understanding and then wisdom, which would have meant quite a lot in the days it was written when most did not have the opportunity or the ability to read at all.

As to whether Jesus existed or not, you choose to believe he didn't. Some choose to believe he did. Some just learn the lessons regardless since there is really insufficient evidence to point either way with both sides having facts to prove their position sufficiently for themselves. And some just believe, like you do, because that is the level they are at

budaatum:
And your job is to dictate how the rebellious and disobedient should live their lives, why?

Does your own Bible say "at the name of Maximus69 their knees shall bow", and not, "Christ alone saves"? Or do you have something to gain in making others an image of yourself against their will?

Why Max, do you seem hell bent in forcing the poor to accept your treasure when you have been warned about [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A6&version=NKJV]pearl eating swines[/url]? Surely, even if you do want others to be an image of you, you ought to first [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A16&version=KJV]make your light so shine before those others so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven[/url]. Or is it that your intention is to glorify something else and not your Father?

Perhaps you too should listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said "[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]the good news is for the poor[/url]". It is the poor that ought to admit their own poverty and reach out for the "good news", and not for one to go about screaming, "you are poor", as some do. To those who don't know they are poor are you are not advised to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A14&version=NIV]shake the dust off your feet and leave them[/url]?

I strongly advise you accept Christ into your life, as in gain understanding and wisdom instead of lacking understanding and believing as a child, and as [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A19&version=NIV]satan, who also believes and shudders![/url]

[img]https://s5/images/tenorb2f44ea9662323f1.gif[/img]

LordReed:


I am continually astounded by what I didn't know about this book called the Bible. The way I used to think about it was as if there was sufficient evidence at least for the historical veracity of the key figures. Guess what nobody ever showed me that evidence I just assumed it was there. I am sure many Christians likewise just assume the evidence is there but have never bother to actually look nor has anyone really presented them with evidence, they just believe.

That is the problem, they just believe without verifying their facts. There is a popular korean sayings, 'the truth you know, how true is it?' Had christians questioned their popularly held truth, had they scrutinize the bible narration, they would have come to term that it is all work of fictions. So many archeological findings, chronicle of ancient Kingdom and documents exposes the falsity of the Bible accounts.

Pastor would stand on the pulpit, preaching that Israelite were enslaved in Egypt, crossed the red sea and captured Canaan through military campaign...the preacher is ignorant of facts, and the listeners are also misled. I wonder how they could so much keep the hope of paradise alive when the whole accounts are made up.

budaatum:

First, I do not have to admit a story I tell you is fiction. It would in fact be rather unusual to admit such a thing if you are not able to work that out yourself. Its like asking mummy and daddy to admit father christmas is unreal when you are not mature enough to work it out yourself, which is part of your development, the working it out, that is.

Second, why would you require others to admit a thing is fiction if they don't see it as fiction? Is it that you undervalue the effort you may have put in to work it out and expect others to be at the stage you might be at without doing the work you've done? Or is it that you can not just accept that you might be at a different developmental stage to the one they are at?

Perhaps listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.[/url] It means each receives (understands) as much as they require (are able or willing to understand).

Paul further advised that [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A11&version=NIV]when people are children, they will talk and reason like children, but when they grow up, as in grow in understanding, they will put the ways of childhood behind them[/url].

You, perhaps, should learn love and compassion for those who do not understand what you are trying to do and perhaps seek understanding yourself instead of that which you seem hell bent on doing here, which is, open peoples' eyes but with no understanding of how the Chief Eye Opener is written to have opened peoples' eyes. In a sense, it's like you playing God trying to create Maximus69 and MuttleyLaff in your own image and with your own understanding, or trying to ram calculus down a non-maths student's throat. Both sides are, in fact trying to create each other to become like one another, with max and muttley trying to make you see what they see with no consideration, you two, that perhaps Christ has not spat in mud and rubbed it in FOLYKAZE's like He has in your own eyes! Could you both explain to me why you'd expect the blind to see what the non-blind see?

Fools undervalue themselves by thinking others should understand and reason like they do. Arrogant fuqs go about rubbing their own understanding, nay! beliefs in the face of children. And smart people learn from those who have done what they wish to do so they can be better at doing it. It is what is meant when it is written [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A11-12&version=NIV]Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”[/url] It means one will be saved (free from the agony of existence), if one understands about Christ.

You might note that John called him [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A1-5&version=NIV]The Word[/url], which means one should therefore learn to read and gain understanding and then wisdom, which would have meant quite a lot in the days it was written when most did not have the opportunity or the ability to read at all.

As to whether Jesus existed or not, you choose to believe he didn't. Some choose to believe he did. Some just learn the lessons regardless since there is really insufficient evidence to point either way with both sides having facts to prove their position sufficiently for themselves. And some just believe, like you do, because that is the level they are at.

Shoo! I offend you? Why are you turning the table against me when I am not the original writer of the bible? You should take it on the bible writer who deliberately wrote his plot as historic rather call it what it is, fiction.

I said in my previous post that nothing is wrong with fiction, it is a universal thing. What is important is that the narrator must be iron out the whole facts instead of distorting, twisting facts and outrightly lying. The Yoruba people came out that the stories in Ifa are fictions, esoteric and metaphor. This is the reason Orunmila, the divination spirit, is called 'erigi alo', meaning that fables teller. Many awo argued that the stories are cryptic, an encoded form of information. Yinyu Yinyu la n lu ilu agidibo, ologbon lo mo n, olumoran ni n jo (the agidibo drum voiced cryptic tones, the wise understand and the inteligent dance to it). Ifa messages convey more than literal meaning. Conveys history, science, philosophy, symbols, spirituality, traditions, etc. But we all understand and agree that Ifa stories are majorly fictions. And Orunmila is known from the Genesis as erigi alo.

The Father Christmas, parent and kid is out of the path. In that case, the parent knew and were only fanning the kid hope of having new gifts. They know the truth, that father Christmas is fantasy, and specially use it for the kids who couldn't think the facts out for themselves.

However, the narrator in the bible do not know the truth, the Pastors do not know the truth either, and the believers thrown deep into fantasies of delusion. Findings have shown that the Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy and much of the old testament books were copied from Urgarit texts of the canaanites during the period of King Josiah. The prophets, judges, kings until king josiah were imaginative figures, they do not exist.

Beyond the fact that most of the old testament books were copied, the divinities were also copied and reconstructed from Canaan spirituality. Yahweh is Canaan spirituality is the son of El. Yahweh had a consort Asherah, and was member of the council of Gods. Bible reveal the Israelite worship the 70 children of El until monotheism was introduced about 3500yrs ago.

Aside that, the archeological findings have exposes that the account of Israel exile in Babylon and return to zion under king Nebukadnezar and Cyrus respectively were distorted and exaggerated. King Nebukadnezar didn't meet Daniel, another fictional figure, and the king didn't feed on scrub for 7yrs. That is fabrication. The cyrus tablet also exposed that king cyrus didn't decree the freedom of Israelite and building of the second temple. Till date, there is no evidence of the first temple.

The gospel writers did not witness what they wrote. They all penned down popularly held belief and tradition then. The believers today too are robed with ignorance and fantasy, having illusion of hope.

Had the writer had known that the account is fictional, had the preacher know too, the analogy of Father Christmas, Parents and kids would have click. The writer copied from Urgarit texts, adopted divinity there and heavily fabricate stories to suit their agenda. The agenda was later popularized and sold as dummy to MuttleyLaff, Maximus69, EMILO2STAY and every Christians out there.

This goes beyond Christianity though. Even the Buddhist believe Buddha mother conceived him without intercourse, was delivered by elephant and walked after 4days. But unlike the Christians, they admit openly that the birth account is fictional. With that admission, people leave aside the historicity of Buddha birth and focuses on his philosophy. Unless maybe Christians could admit the figures in the bible do not exist just like you do, we will focus more on the messages embedded in the stories. But why insisting the account are historical, they have the responsibility of proving their claim. After all, no one would disturb them to prove fiction, we only demand prove of alleged historical accounts in the bible.

On another round, max, Muttley and emilo habe refused to tell us how much they trust the hope in second life. You told us you don't know, but our interest is on them since they believe the accounts are historic.

MuttleyLaff:

Agbo to tadi m'eyin.

Welcome

FOLYKAZE:
... The writer copied from Urgarit texts, adopted divinity there and heavily fabricate stories to suit their agenda. The agenda was later popularized and sold as dummy to MuttleyLaff, Maximus69, EMILO2STAY and every Christians out there ...

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]

FOLYKAZE:
Agbo to tadi m'eyin.
Welcome

[img]https://s5/images/MuttleyLaffVieraaf2a252940cab251.png[/img]
"O ja mi lara jẹ, nobi small", that I havent been opportuned to jump in and contribute, except than just make due, staying in the background, doing the quiet watching and muted reading.

FOLYKAZE:


Don't just tell us he is real, prove it with evidence. If you are sure he existed, whyis it difficult to prove your claim?

How many of you out there are waiting for the evidence?

My guy, you've got all the time to choose what you will believe (trust) nobody gives a bleep about whatever you choose to believe.
So it's you that's having problems with the beliefs of others which makes you the one suffering silently!
Live your life the way you want and leave others to whatever they choose to (trust) believe!

budaatum:

And your job is to dictate how the rebellious and disobedient should live their lives, why?

Does your own Bible say "at the name of Maximus69 their knees shall bow", and not, "Christ alone saves"? Or do you have something to gain in making others an image of yourself against their will?

Why Max, do you seem hell bent in forcing the poor to accept your treasure when you have been warned about [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A6&version=NKJV]pearl eating swines[/url]? Surely, even if you do want others to be an image of you, you ought to first [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A16&version=KJV]make your light so shine before those others so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven[/url]. Or is it that your intention is to glorify something else and not your Father?

Perhaps you too should listen to Christ solve the difficulty you are having when he said "[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A2-6&version=NIV]the good news is for the poor[/url]". It is the poor that ought to admit their own poverty and reach out for the "good news", and not for one to go about screaming, "you are poor", as some do. To those who don't know they are poor are you are not advised to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A14&version=NIV]shake the dust off your feet and leave them[/url]?

I strongly advise you accept Christ into your life, as in gain understanding and wisdom instead of lacking understanding and believing as a child, and as [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A19&version=NIV]satan, who also believes and shudders![/url]

More grease to your elbow Ma!

FOLYKAZE:


Did I say I have problem with your belief? After all some people belief Mohammed flew up and cut the moon into half. It is all believe, abject illusion and opium, and those who are intoxicated with it should enjoy their hopelessness.

Isn't it weird. An adult believed a man who didn't exist would come and rule over the earth. He has hope and keep it alive. In the end, he drive into nothingness and all the hope becomes vanity. Wake up Max

LordReed, isn't it weird that Daniel, the popular figure in the bible who dream and had vision that many Christians believe today is fictional? Joshua too is fiction. What exactly is real in the bible?

The problem you guys have is obvious when you find it so difficult to ignore!

The secret behind the concept of God is to determine right and wrong for intelligent creatures, you people are saying there is nothing as such yet when someone choose to be unquestionably stupid (from your point of view) you failed woefully to maintain your stance!

If truthfully there is no God, why can't you just live your life without having to correct adults like you who have chosen what they will like to do with their lives?

Come on, these people aren't snatching your bread, butter or cup of tea, so why are you people agitating?

MuttleyLaff:
Where are they all now? Where is Enki now? Where are etcetera now, lol?

Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons. God has all the time in the world and so isnt fazed or bothered that something has got a head start

FOLYKAZE, my dearest friend, ọrẹ mi atata, do you know how long it took God to legally come down to earth as a bonafide human being? Yeah 4000 years

As before mentioned with the earlier reference to Exodus 33:17-23, it was as if, Moses was watching a rewound video tape

I'll like you to rewind your memory to Genesis Chapter 1, and tell, how many goodness (i.e. how many ''... it was good'') in there. Seven in total. There are seven numbers of completeness and achievements, lol.

When God said to Moses:
"I will cause all My goodness to pass in front of you,
and I will proclaim the name Yahweh before you.
I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

It was God, telling Moses about goodness #1, and checkmarking it with putting a tick mark, with, I AM, as in meaning, its Me, who did it, that goodness #1 up to goodness #7, and checkmarking each with putting tick marks with, I AM, as in meaning, yeah, its Me again, who did those

God, showed Moses, with those series of flashbacks in Exodus 33:17-23, how He went about and did His creation

The tetragrammaton YHWH or Yahweh, serves its purpose and so is enough name, for God, to give out. I think can guess why God didnt tell Jacob and Moses, what His real name is

It makes sense die to me. God hardening the mind of Pharoah, makes sense squared die to me

Anyway, butterflylion left you off the hook and saved your bacon for you on this "God hardening the mind of Pharoah" one. Follow butterflylion's sign post, if you are interested in "God hardening the mind of Pharoah" things and holler me from there

I can bet my bottom dollar, that your understanding of "holy" is flawed

Fyi FOLYKAZE, as you're reading and/or read, you get the sense from the above quote taken from another discussion similar to this topic you've raised, that nobi nah today yansh don tay for fowl back. So what the copied Urgarit texts, adopted divinity etcetera. Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons enduring forever, mehn, lol.

FOLYKAZE:


On another round, max, Muttley and emilo habe refused to tell us how much they trust the hope in second life. You told us you don't know, but our interest is on them since they believe the accounts are historic.

My guy, you people are problems to your own souls!
The Bible says "The foolish says in his heart 'there is no God's'" Psalms 10:4

If you guys aren't foolish, what has the beliefs of other intelligent creatures like you got to do with your very existence?

Most of you have spent years on Nairaland trying to refute what you said is false, wasting your time, energy, and resources, yet if someone ask you WHY?

The answer is "we are trying to refute the idea of a God"

And what's your motive?

Answer "to turn everyone to freethinkers"

Yet you're terribly worried about what others are thinking! Job 5:13

Isn't that preposterous?