blueAgent:
You claim that the law was not known to Abraham,Noah and the ancient people before Sinai.

You were insinuating that Abraham did not keep the sabbath because it was not written literally.

But the fact is that, how did Abel and Cain know that they were suppose to sacrifice to God if they were not told by God?

If we agree that God gave them the instruction even though it was not clearly written, then while is it impossible and illogical for you to believe that Adam, Eve, Abraham, Noah and all others kept the sabbath day and obeyed all of God's commandments?

Maximus69:
(1) Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden, their children can see the two angels standing right there at the entrance of the garden with the flaming sword turning itself speedily, their parents no doubt would have told them why they were thrown out of the Paradisiac garden.
Of course the children would always think of what they can do to reconcile with the owner of the garden! The Bible never recorded any further discussion between God and the first human couple after the event in Eden, therefore Cain and Abel used their instinct to think of how they can regain what their parents lost! That's why they both presented gifts before the owner of the garden. The Bible never mentioned anything about a Sabbath or whether the gifts were offered on a Sabbath!

"¹And Adam had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain.
“With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man,” she said.
²Later she gave birth to Cain’s brother Abel.
Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, while Cain was a tiller of the soil.
³So in the course of time, Cain brought some of the fruit of the soil as an offering to the LORD,
⁴while Abel brought the best portions of the firstborn of his flock. And the LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
⁵but He had no regard for Cain and his offering. So Cain became very angry, and his countenance fell.
⁶“Why are you angry,” said the LORD to Cain, “and why has your countenance fallen?
⁷If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires you, but you must master it.”
- Genesis 4:1-7

Open doors discussions between God and the first two children, Cain and Abel would have happened and be regular thing because the Bible in Genesis 4:7, records of God telling Cain, that Cain knows, probably from previous discussions, whats right to do, in order for him obtain acceptance, but Cain because of his nature wasn't ready for getting with the program and/or not genetically inclined to do the right thing

Both Cain and Abel, respectively and/or individually exercised either doing it "my way" and wrong or "God's way" and right. It is no secret that Abel was bullseye, spot-on, right on target, bang on the money, in exercising faith (i.e. Hebrews 11:4) He Nike, just do it, "God's way" and right.

Maximus69:
Since it wasn't WRITTEN, and people from all the nations do worship one way or another, it's evident that God created us with the desire to worship. So it's doesn't necessarily mean it must be on a Sabbath, but one thing is certain:- God is pleased when his worshipers are ORGANIZED!

How do you mean "... God created us with the desire to worship?"
What in that context of yours is the meaning of "worship"?
How then, is this worship carried out? Is it a song of praises done, with hymns, dancing etcetera?
Was God pleased with people getting organized and then deciding to build a tower which was to reach to heaven, to make a name for themselves?

blueAgent:
Stop dragging us back with your long story.

The purpose of the sabbath has not changed, which is the creation of the Universe so therefore its function cannot also change.

A 1 Timothy 3:16 smart worker reflects on the long story he/she has received and doesnt does not give in to impatience and/or impudence

Just as I figured that the substance of the post would go swoosh, flying over your head, as if, like its a Naija airforce fighter jet, lol.

The purpose of the sabbath is to teach resting. Not the creation of the Universe as you just up there erroneously allude to brother.

1/ How many types and/or kind of sabbaths, do you know and are aware of of, lol?
2/ Name and describe the sabbaths you know
3/ What does sabbath mean and/or signify.
4/ What purpose is sabbath made for?

Maximus69:
The quotations you add to your comments are always out of context!

Christians in the first century are hiding from Judaists who want them dead by all means!

So it's not safe to meet together all of them at once after the order that the Sanhendrin (Jewish high court) gave them to stop preaching, teaching or worshiping in Jesus name! Act 5:28

The Jews only have time to search for the Christians on the Sabbath day when everyone is less busy with daily transactions, so the Christians can't be that stupid to organize themselves for worship exactly that same day!

They meet back then in smaller groups and they make sure Jews don't know this until when the persecution was intense and they have to run away from JERUSALEM leaving only the Apostles behind!

So when they get to other countries, they only organize themselves for worship not necessarily on a Sabbath day!

They try to ascertain the days and times convenient for each person so that the day that's convenient for you will be the day and time of your meeting with your Christian brothers and sisters will be scheduled. And so it was easy for them to continue with their meetings UNNOTICED!

You concluded your response with Jesus' comment regarding what the Jewish community has turned the place of worship to, please did he say anything about Sabbath there? Jesus never mandated any day in particular for Christian meetings!
In fact he ruled out the Sabbath when his followers started plucking grains and eating which is a complete violation of the Sabbath that the Jews know from time immemorial! Luke 6:1-2

How do you mean, He ruled out the Sabbath? What is that suppose to mean?

blueAgent:




Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.


Ezekiel 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

[u]Even in Heaven the Sabbath will still remain a day set outside for worship[/u.

If God blesses anything that thing remains blessed forever.

1 Chronicles 17:27 Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The underlined is your PERSONAL assumption my friend![quote][/quote]

Christians are no longer under the old covenant!

But if you still want to continue with the old covenant, it's OK.

Continue with it. What Apostle Paul (the Apostle chosen by Jesus himself to connect Gentiles to Christianity) said is "NOBODY should mandate any particular day for us, neither festival, celebration of the moon or SABBATH DAY" Colossians 2:16

We worship our own God not grudgingly but from a pure heart, and we CHOOSE the day and time convenient for us because we fully understand the person we worship "JEHOVAH" and he himself understands us!

Maximus69:


(1) Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden, their children can see the two angels standing right there at the entrance of the garden with the flaming sword turning itself speedily, their parents no doubt would have told them why they were thrown out of the Paradisiac garden.
Of course the children would always think of what they can do to reconcile with the owner of the garden! The Bible never recorded any further discussion between God and the first human couple after the event in Eden, therefore Cain and Abel used their instinct to think of how they can regain what their parents lost! That's why they both presented gifts before the owner of the garden. The Bible never mentioned anything about a Sabbath or whether the gifts were offered on a Sabbath!

Since it wasn't WRITTEN, and people from all the nations do worship one way or another, it's evident that God created us with the desire to worship. So it's doesn't necessarily mean it must be on a Sabbath, but one thing is certain:- God is pleased when his worshipers are ORGANIZED!

You claim The law of God the 10commandments were not know to men until mount Sinai.

Then explain to me how Jacob knew that Idol worship was Sin against God

Genesis 35:2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: Genesis 35:4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which were in their hand, and all their earrings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem. Genesis 35:5 And they journeyed: and the terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them, and they did not pursue after the sons of Jacob.

Maximus69:


The underlined is your PERSONAL assumption my friend!

Christians are no longer under the old covenant!

But if you still want to continue with the old covenant, it's OK.

Continue with it. What Apostle Paul (the Apostle chosen by Jesus himself to connect Gentiles to Christianity) said is "NOBODY should mandate any particular day for us, neither festival, celebration of the moon or SABBATH DAY" Colossians 2:16

We worship our own God not grudgingly but from a pure heart, and we CHOOSE the day and time convenient for us because we fully understand the person we worship "JEHOVAH" and he himself understands us!

Which old covenant? You think the new covenant will save you?
Even in the New covenant the law still applies to all Christians.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Stop misquoting Paul, when you read that Bible verse and its entire context you will understand that Paul is referring to fastings and Sabbaths days which were ceremonial feasts and not the weekly sabbath day.


The same Paul spoke about a sabbath rest for all Christians.


Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

You think you can enter Heaven without keeping the commandments?


1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Maximus69:


The underlined is your PERSONAL assumption my friend!

Christians are no longer under the old covenant!

But if you still want to continue with the old covenant, it's OK.

Continue with it. What Apostle Paul (the Apostle chosen by Jesus himself to connect Gentiles to Christianity) said is "NOBODY should mandate any particular day for us, neither festival, celebration of the moon or SABBATH DAY" Colossians 2:16

We worship our own God not grudgingly but from a pure heart, and we CHOOSE the day and time convenient for us because we fully understand the person we worship "JEHOVAH" and he himself understands us!

Tell me how Christains will be righteous without walking in God's commandments?

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.



John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

blueAgent:




The Sabbath was meant for the worship God.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD


Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.


The reason why we should worship God is because he is the o e that made the Heavens,Earth and the waters.

And the sabbath is a sign or evidence of that, been also the longest commandment.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You've come again with this your multiple response to a single post!

Can't you just take your time to assimilate before responding?

Well i've told you, Christians aren't under a Sabbath, we choose between the days and times scheduled for our meetings!

Jesus said WISDOM is justified by her children! Luke 7:35

Whatever God mandated will yield positive results, so let's see the result of your insistence on Sabbath day!

Maximus69:


The underlined is your PERSONAL assumption my friend!

Christians are no longer under the old covenant!

But if you still want to continue with the old covenant, it's OK.

Continue with it. What Apostle Paul (the Apostle chosen by Jesus himself to connect Gentiles to Christianity) said is "NOBODY should mandate any particular day for us, neither festival, celebration of the moon or SABBATH DAY" Colossians 2:16

We worship our own God not grudgingly but from a pure heart, and we CHOOSE the day and time convenient for us because we fully understand the person we worship "JEHOVAH" and he himself understands us!

Here is evidence that Noah,Abraham,Jacob and the ancient World all knew Gods law.

Apostle John says it has been existing from the beginning.
commandments has been existing since the beginning of the World.


2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Maximus69:


You've come again with this your multiple response to a single post!

Can't you just take your time to assimilate before responding?

Well i've told you, Christians aren't under a Sabbath, we choose between the days and times scheduled for our meetings!

Jesus said WISDOM is justified by her children! Luke 7:35

Whatever God mandated will yield positive results, so let's see the result of your insistence on Sabbath day!

Its obvious you cannot refute my points or evidence, neither can you prove your claims.

blueAgent:
Here is evidence that Noah, Abraham,Jacob and the ancient World all knew God's law.

Apostle John says it has been existing from the beginning.
commandments has been existing since the beginning of the World.

2 John 1:6
"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

Noah, Abraham, Jacob and the ancient World all knew God's law. About commandments that have been existing since the beginning of the World, that Apostle John confirms has been existing from the beginning.

The law of aerodynamics has been existing since the beginning of the world. When the Wright brothers took advantage of this law, it defied, nullified, made inoperative and made it look useless, another law that says, what goes up, must come crashily down.

Without proof-texting with 2 John 1:6, like you've attempted to do, let it be known that, if you know love, if you understand what love is, if you love yourself. You would rest and not work to the full, all out and flat out until drop dead.

Maximus69, is coaxing and corralling you, but despite all that, you're headstrong and obstinate to the extent of digging in your heels to not bulge.

Let me ask you these questions:
1/ Do you flick on the electric switches in your home providing electricity coming from the national grid and managed or supplied by the local Electricity Distribution Company (DISCO), hmm?
2/ Have you considered that if you believe Saturday is Sabbath, and so is a sin to work on that day, then you're complicit in breaking the Sabbath through your making use of electricity generated by another working on Saturday, erhn?

blueAgent:


sanc​ti​fy

verb

sanc·​ti·​fy

 | \ ˈsaŋ(k)-tə-ˌfī  \

sanc​ti​fied; sanc​ti​fy​ing

Collegiate Definition

transitive ​verb

1: to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : CONSECRATE

2: to free from sin : PURIFY

3a: to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to

b: to give moral or social sanction to

4: to make productive of holiness or pietyobserve the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it— Deuteronomy 5:12 (Douay Version)

Synonyms & Antonyms

Synonyms

bless, consecrate, hallow, sacralize

Antonyms

deconsecrate, desacralize, desanctify

Examples

The priest sanctified their marriage.

The constitution sanctified the rights of the people.

First Known Use

14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1

History and Etymology

Middle English seintefien, sanctifien, from Anglo-French seintefier, sanctifier, from Late Latin sanctificare, from Latin sanctus sacred — more at SAINT


verb

\ ˈbles  \

blessed \ ˈblest  \ also blest \ ˈblest  \ ; bless​ing

Collegiate Definition

transitive ​verb

1religion : to hallow or consecrate by religious rite or wordasked the priest to bless their marriageBless this home.

2religion : to hallow with the sign of the crossHe blessed himself before liftoff.

3: to invoke divine care forbless your heart—used in the phrase bless you to wish good health especially to one who has just sneezed

4a: PRAISE, GLORIFYbless his holy name

b: to speak well of : APPROVE

5: to confer prosperity or happiness uponGod has blessed us with four children.

6archaic : PROTECT, PRESERVEBless me from marrying a usurer!— Shakespeare

7: ENDOW, FAVORblessed with athletic ability

Synonyms & Antonyms

Synonyms

carol, celebrate, emblazon, exalt, extol (also extoll), glorify, hymn, laud, magnify, praise, resound

We all know that God blessed and Sanctified the Sabbath day.

Is there any other day that is written that it was blessed and sanctified other than the Sabbath day?

I have added the meaning of blessed and sanctified to make the point clearer.

I had to switch off because you stopped being civil in your discuss. Check the bolded: there was no warranty for that in brotherly conversations

blueAgent:



Here is evidence that Noah,Abraham,Jacob and the ancient World all knew Gods law.

Apostle John says it has been existing from the beginning.
commandments has been existing since the beginning of the World.


2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

From the beginning surely means, from the garden of Eden!

But God as a loving father only gave his beloved children Adam and Eve just one single Law.

Don't eat of the forbidden tree!

It was rebelliousness that led humans into facing numerous laws!

If your child is loyal, faithful and obedient, will you give him countless dos and donts?
Will you be anxious to become overly protective of a loving child?

Listen to wisdom my friend! It's a disloyal, unfaithful and disobedient child that will not give you rest of mind Sir, but for a good child, you only warn him/her against danger. NO lengthy rules!

That's what happened to Adam and Eve but by the time of the Israelites, God was dealing with sinful descendant of a rebellious couple, who needs constant monitoring to be sure if they will not take after their disobedient parents. Hence the numerous laws with death penalty.

But as for Christians who willingly subject themselves without any threat or fierce punishment, God dropped it to just four!

Abstain from

(1) Things sacrificed to idols.
(2) Meat that was strangled.
(3) Blood.
(4) Casual sex. Act 15:26-29

When we get back to Paradise like in the beginning, God will drop it to just one single rule again!

blueAgent:



Its obvious you cannot refute my points or evidence, neither can you prove your claims.

Wisdom is justified by her children Sir!

Maximus69:


From the beginning surely means, from the garden of Eden!

But God as a loving father only gave his beloved children Adam and Eve just one single Law.

Don't eat of the forbidden tree!

It was rebelliousness that led humans into facing numerous laws!

If your child is loyal, faithful and obedient, will you give him countless dos and donts?
Will you be anxious to become overly protective of a loving child?

Listen to wisdom my friend! It's a disloyal, unfaithful and disobedient child that will not give you rest of mind Sir, but for a good child, you only warn him/her against danger. NO lengthy rules!

That's what happened to Adam and Eve but by the time of the Israelites, God was dealing with sinful descendant of a rebellious couple, who needs constant monitoring to be sure if they will not take after their disobedient parents. Hence the numerous laws with death penalty.

But as for Christians who willingly subject themselves without any threat or fierce punishment, God dropped it to just four!

Abstain from

(1) Things sacrificed to idols.
(2) Meat that was strangled.
(3) Blood.
(4) Casual sex. Act 15:26-29

When we get back to Paradise like in the beginning, God will drop it to just one single rule again!

When get to Hell you tell God that.

Maximus69:


From the beginning surely means, from the garden of Eden!

But God as a loving father only gave his beloved children Adam and Eve just one single Law.

Don't eat of the forbidden tree!

It was rebelliousness that led humans into facing numerous laws!

If your child is loyal, faithful and obedient, will you give him countless dos and donts?
Will you be anxious to become overly protective of a loving child?

Listen to wisdom my friend! It's a disloyal, unfaithful and disobedient child that will not give you rest of mind Sir, but for a good child, you only warn him/her against danger. NO lengthy rules!

That's what happened to Adam and Eve but by the time of the Israelites, God was dealing with sinful descendant of a rebellious couple, who needs constant monitoring to be sure if they will not take after their disobedient parents. Hence the numerous laws with death penalty.

But as for Christians who willingly subject themselves without any threat or fierce punishment, God dropped it to just four!

Abstain from

(1) Things sacrificed to idols.
(2) Meat that was strangled.
(3) Blood.
(4) Casual sex. Act 15:26-29

When we get back to Paradise like in the beginning, God will drop it to just one single rule again!

See story telling.....


The same God that says he does not change is the one you are claiming that changed his laws to suit you.

If thats the case than why did Jesus die?

Maximus69:


From the beginning surely means, from the garden of Eden!

But God as a loving father only gave his beloved children Adam and Eve just one single Law.

Don't eat of the forbidden tree!

It was rebelliousness that led humans into facing numerous laws!

If your child is loyal, faithful and obedient, will you give him countless dos and donts?
Will you be anxious to become overly protective of a loving child?

Listen to wisdom my friend! It's a disloyal, unfaithful and disobedient child that will not give you rest of mind Sir, but for a good child, you only warn him/her against danger. NO lengthy rules!

That's what happened to Adam and Eve but by the time of the Israelites, God was dealing with sinful descendant of a rebellious couple, who needs constant monitoring to be sure if they will not take after their disobedient parents. Hence the numerous laws with death penalty.

But as for Christians who willingly subject themselves without any threat or fierce punishment, God dropped it to just four!

Abstain from

(1) Things sacrificed to idols.
(2) Meat that was strangled.
(3) Blood.
(4) Casual sex. Act 15:26-29

When we get back to Paradise like in the beginning, God will drop it to just one single rule again!

Be careful of what you are saying about God, while trying to justify your false teaching.

God's law is eternal it can never change. instead it will change Heaven and Earth will pass away.

To prove the eternal nature of God's law the Ark of testimony that God asked Moses to make and to put the law (10commandments) inside
was also revealed to John in the book of Revelation containing the same testament(10commandments) showing there unchangeable nature.


Exodus 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 26:33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.



Read and learn to please God not your Church and there false doctrine.

That day of judgment been a member of any denomination will not save you from God's wrath.

shadeyinka:

I had to switch off because you stopped being civil in your discuss. Check the bolded: there was no warranty for that in brotherly conversations

You should take more time and study and pray to God to reveal the truth concerning this matter.

MuttleyLaff:
Noah, Abraham, Jacob and the ancient World all knew God's law. About commandments that have been existing since the beginning of the World, that Apostle John confirms has been existing from the beginning.

The law of aerodynamics has been existing since the beginning of the world. When the Wright brothers took advantage of this law, it defied, nullified, made inoperative and made it look useless, another law that says, what goes up, must come crashily down.

Without proof-texting with 2 John 1:6, like you've attempted to do, let it be known that, if you know love, if you understand what love is, if you love yourself. You would rest and not work to the full, all out and flat out until drop dead.

Maximus69, is coaxing and corralling you, but despite all that, you're headstrong and obstinate to the extent of digging in your heels to not bulge.

Let me ask you these questions:
1/ Do you flick on the electric switches in your home providing electricity coming from the national grid and managed or supplied by the local Electricity Distribution Company (DISCO), hmm?
2/ Have you considered that if you believe Saturday is Sabbath, and so is a sin to work on that day, then you're complicit in breaking the Sabbath through your making use of electricity generated by another working on Saturday, erhn?

Go through my previous post on the page before this and find my opinion on this case.

Maximus69:


You've come again with this your multiple response to a single post!

Can't you just take your time to assimilate before responding?

Well i've told you, Christians aren't under a Sabbath, we choose between the days and times scheduled for our meetings!

Jesus said WISDOM is justified by her children! Luke 7:35

Whatever God mandated will yield positive results, so let's see the result of your insistence on Sabbath day!

This is the evidence.

https://www.adventistmission.org/ellen-whites-the-great-hope-unscathed-in-nigerian-fire


100yrs after the author who is a servant of God wrote this book "the Great hope" the power of God is still great and present on it.

blueAgent:


When get to Hell you tell God that.

There you go again misinformed churchgoer!

"Hell" means "Grave" until God's kingdom come, everyone who dies goes there!

Only those God wanted to come back to life will be resurrected from Hell!

blueAgent:

Be careful of what you are saying about God, while trying to justify your false teaching.

God's law is eternal it can never change. instead it will change Heaven and Earth will pass away.

To prove the eternal nature of God's law the Ark of testimony that God asked Moses to make and to put the law (10commandments) inside
was also revealed to John in the book of Revelation containing the same testament(10commandments) showing there unchangeable nature.


Exodus 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 26:33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.



Read and learn to please God not your Church and there false doctrine.

That day of judgment been a member of any denomination will not save you from God's wrath.

Everything in the old covenant becomes USELESS including the ark and the laws inside, the moment Jesus gave up his life to seal a new covenant! John 19:30

For your information Sir, that's why the large curtain signifying sacredness of the old arrangement got ripped apart at Jesus' last breath! Matthew 27:51

The Bible book of Revelations is not to be interpreted with canal minds my friend, otherwise everything WRITTEN in the Revelation should equally be expected as it is penned down.

If you read carefully you'll notice that so many things that has been cancelled in the new covenant still appear as if it's still operative in the Bible book of Revelations, for instance animal sacrifice, lampstands, incense, altars and so on!

If you want to know the meaning of what's written there we will TEACH you, but if you feel you're OK fine!

blueAgent:



This is the evidence.

https://www.adventistmission.org/ellen-whites-the-great-hope-unscathed-in-nigerian-fire


100yrs after the author who is a servant of God wrote this book "the Great hope" the power of God is still great and present on it.

If you're seeing the BENEFITS of your so called SABBATH law, then chill my friend.

Let others SEE it too.

Paul told us there is nothing like that again for TRUE Christians! Colossians 2:16

The evidence of delusion in the ideology of most Churchgoers like you is threatening people with Hellfire!

All the Churches of Christendom are the same in this yet your teachings and doctrines are contradicting. But after saying all the gibberish your religious Yahoo big boys infused in your brains, the next thing is

"If you don't agree with my interpretation, God will roast you alive forever in Hell"

Whereas LOOK!

You and your cohorts have been arguing profusely all these while on doctrinal issues.

So which doctrine exactly out of all the ones you've been arguing to support is to be the basis for judgment for people not to be roasted by your sadist god!

blueAgent:


See story telling.....
The same God that says he does not change is the one you are claiming that changed his laws to suit you.

(If thats the case than then why did Jesus die?)

I should be asking you that question!

It was WRITTEN in the Bible that God gave Adam (his first human son) just one single rule, and it is just to protect him from danger!

It was rebellious descendants of Adam who inherited sin that God gave numerous laws.

Jesus' death is for reconciliation between God and sinful but obedient humans so that we can return to been favoured as his children once again!

After we have been totally forgiven, none of us will need to monitor his neighbour to be sure whether you're obeying God's laws or not {Jeremiah 31:34} because Jesus would have connected us back our father in heaven and each person will be dealing DIRECTLY with God again. Even at that time, Jesus will have to step back so as not to interfair in the dealings between Jehovah and any of his earth children {1Corinthians 15:28} until them only Jesus and God's holy spirit (NOT you) can teach us through his thoughts, words and actions the necessary rules we need to connect back to our heavenly father! 1Corinthians 15:25

That supposed to be Adam's duty NOT Jesus, but Adam became a dead man due to his rebelliousness and transferred sin and death to all of us! Romans 5:12 JEHOVAH is not the God of the dead but of the living {Luke 20:38} that's why Jesus bought us with his own blood so that whoever amongst us is willing to continue living must do so through learning how to be obedient from our new father/ teacher/ counselor Jesus Christ! 1Corinthians 15:45

Now imagine if each person is to carry the over 600 rules on his/her head everywhere we go, how boring do you think life will be then?

That's why i told you "when we get back to Paradise, God will compress the numerous rules back to just one as it was in the beginning" because all what God want is how to prevent his obedient, Loving, Joyous, Peaceful, Kind, Good, Gentle, Faithful, Mild and Considerate{Galatians 5:22-23} children from anything that could harm us!

Never mind all this efficacious explanation my friend, i humbed myself to learn it all from Jesus' brothers whom he assigned to feed his sheep. Matthew 24:45

But if you feel you know better, please let's hear your own explanation!

Maximus69:


If you're seeing the BENEFITS of your so called SABBATH law, then chill my friend.

Let others SEE it too.

Paul told us there is nothing like that again for TRUE Christians! Colossians 2:16

The evidence of delusion in the ideology of most Churchgoers like you is threatening people with Hellfire!

All the Churches of Christendom are the same in this yet your teachings and doctrines are contradicting. But after saying all the gibberish your religious Yahoo big boys infused in your brains, the next thing is

"If you don't agree with my interpretation, God will roast you alive forever in Hell"

Whereas LOOK!

You and your cohorts have been arguing profusely all these while on doctrinal issues.

So which doctrine exactly out of all the ones you've been arguing to support is to be the basis for judgment for people not to be roasted by your sadist god!

You are either a liar or you are brainwashed.

Here is the signs that Jesus said will fellow them.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

A book "the Great Hope" was the only thing that was not burned in a house by a fire that burnt everything and even melt iron in the same house, but that same fire could not burn a book written by an author who died about 100years ago, which other miracle is higher than this?

That shows that the God of the sabbath was the God of the author and was present with his word(book) 100years after it was published.

Stop deceiving yourself on what Paul said, Paul never abolished the sabbath, no man has power to do that.

Paul was speaking on fasting and eating habits of Christians and not about the weekly sabbath, the sabbath he mentioned was that of the feasts and conventions.
Compare Colossians2:16 and Romans 14:1-end.

I have told you several times that your religeous movement is a cult and not a church, any your doctrines are anti-Gods word.

Your doctrine on Hell is a further proof.

Maximus69:


I should be asking you that question!

It was WRITTEN in the Bible that God gave Adam (his first human son) just one single rule, and it is just to protect him from danger!

It was rebellious descendants of Adam who inherited sin that God gave numerous laws.

Jesus' death is for reconciliation between God and sinful but obedient humans so that we can return to been favoured as his children once again!

After we have been totally forgiven, none of us will need to monitor his neighbour to be sure whether you're obeying God's laws or not {Jeremiah 31:34} because Jesus would have connected us back our father in heaven and each person will be dealing DIRECTLY with God again. Even at that time, Jesus will have to step back so as not to interfair in the dealings between Jehovah and any of his earth children {1Corinthians 15:28} until them only Jesus and God's holy spirit (NOT you) can teach us through his thoughts, words and actions the necessary rules we need to connect back to our heavenly father! 1Corinthians 15:25

That supposed to be Adam's duty NOT Jesus, but Adam became a dead man due to his rebelliousness and transferred sin and death to all of us! Romans 5:12 JEHOVAH is not the God of the dead but of the living {Luke 20:38} that's why Jesus bought us with his own blood so that whoever amongst us is willing to continue living must do so through learning how to be obedient from our new father/ teacher/ counselor Jesus Christ! 1Corinthians 15:45

Now imagine if each person is to carry the over 600 rules on his/her head everywhere we go, how boring do you think life will be then?

That's why i told you "when we get back to Paradise, God will compress the numerous rules back to just one as it was in the beginning" because all what God want is how to prevent his obedient, Loving, Joyous, Peaceful, Kind, Good, Gentle, Faithful, Mild and Considerate{Galatians 5:22-23} children from anything that could harm us!

Never mind all this efficacious explanation my friend, i humbed myself to learn it all from Jesus' brothers whom he assigned to feed his sheep. Matthew 24:45

But if you feel you know better, please let's hear your own explanation!

See more story!!!!

When will you ever say something that can be proved from the Bible?

Read and comprehend.

Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Maximus69:


Everything in the old covenant becomes USELESS including the ark and the laws inside, the moment Jesus gave up his life to seal a new covenant! John 19:30

For your information Sir, that's why the large curtain signifying sacredness of the old arrangement got ripped apart at Jesus' last breath! Matthew 27:51

The Bible book of Revelations is not to be interpreted with canal minds my friend, otherwise everything WRITTEN in the Revelation should equally be expected as it is penned down.

If you read carefully you'll notice that so many things that has been cancelled in the new covenant still appear as if it's still operative in the Bible book of Revelations, for instance animal sacrifice, lampstands, incense, altars and so on!

If you want to know the meaning of what's written there we will TEACH you, but if you feel you're OK fine!

Gosh!!!!! You are amazing.

So the throne of God has become Useless?

And let them make me a sanctuary, that I may
dwell in their midst. Exactly as I show you
concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and of all
its furniture, so you shall make it . . . And see that
you make them after the pattern for them, which is
being shown you on the mountain. Exodus 25:8-9,
40 (ESV)


But what did Moses see?


Where did this pattern exist? Hebrews
8:5 answers that question by telling us that the tabernacle Moses
was told to build is like something that exists in heaven.
They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly
things. For when Moses was about to erect the
tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that
you make everything according to the pattern that
was shown you on the mountain.”


Hebrews 8:5
(ESV)
Hebrews 9:23 further tells us that the tabernacle is a copy of
something in heaven.
Thus it was necessary for the copies of the
heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but
the heavenly things themselves with better
sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:23 (ESV)
Also, Acts 7:44 says,
Our fathers had the tabernacle of testimony in the
wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses
directed him to make it according to the pattern
which he had seen.


Acts 7:44 (ESV)
These verses teach that Exodus 25:8-16, 40 refers to the
instructions that God gave Moses for building the Ark of the
Covenant. Exodus 25:10-16 does not describe the actual building
of the Ark.

Presently Jesus is our high priest in the Heavenly court advocating for us, just as the Earthly court was entered by the earthly high priest to cleanse people of their sins.

blueAgent:




You are either a liar or you are brainwashed.

Here is the signs that Jesus said will fellow them.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

A book "the Great Hope" was the only thing that was not burned in a house by a fire that burnt everything and even melt iron in the same house, but that same fire could not burn a book written by an author who died about 100years ago, which other miracle is higher than this?

That shows that the God of the sabbath was the God of the author and was present with his word(book) 100years after it was published.

Stop deceiving yourself on what Paul said, Paul never abolished the sabbath, no man has power to do that.

Paul was speaking on fasting and eating habits of Christians and not about the weekly sabbath, the sabbath he mentioned was that of the feasts and conventions.
Compare Colossians2:16 and Romans 14:1-end.

I have told you several times that your religeous movement is a cult and not a church, any your doctrines are anti-Gods word.

Your doctrine on Hell is a further proof.

Let everyone see the LIAR nah, by going to LAY YOUR HAND ON Covid19 patients and get them cured.

You and your cohorts need no further pain taken preaching to prove you're TRUE Christians!

I told you something you said it's a lie, hen nah go and cure Covid19 patients, are they not also SICK?

Keep deceiving yourself!

Maximus69:


Everything in the old covenant becomes USELESS including the ark and the laws inside, the moment Jesus gave up his life to seal a new covenant! John 19:30

For your information Sir, that's why the large curtain signifying sacredness of the old arrangement got ripped apart at Jesus' last breath! Matthew 27:51

The Bible book of Revelations is not to be interpreted with canal minds my friend, otherwise everything WRITTEN in the Revelation should equally be expected as it is penned down.

If you read carefully you'll notice that so many things that has been cancelled in the new covenant still appear as if it's still operative in the Bible book of Revelations, for instance animal sacrifice, lampstands, incense, altars and so on!

If you want to know the meaning of what's written there we will TEACH you, but if you feel you're OK fine!

The Ark of Covenant is a replica of God's throne.



2 Chronicles 3:13 The wings of these cherubims spread themselves forth twenty cubits: and they stood on their feet, and their faces were inward.

2 Chronicles 3:14 And he made the vail of blue, and purple, and crimson, and fine linen, and wrought cherubims thereon.


2 Chronicles 5:7 And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, to the oracle of the house, into the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims:

2 Chronicles 5:8 For the cherubims spread forth their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.

Psalms 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.


Psalms 99:1 The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.


Isaiah 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.


Ezekiel 10:20 This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims.

Hebrews 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

Maximus69:


Let everyone see the LIAR nah, by going to LAY YOUR HAND ON Covid19 patients and get them cured.

You and your cohorts need no further pain taken preaching to prove you're TRUE Christians!

I told you something you said it's a lie, hen nah go and cure Covid19 patients, are they not also SICK?

Keep deceiving yourself!

Even if we do that, it will still not convince stiffnecked people like you.

blueAgent:



See more story!!!!

When will you ever say something that can be proved from the Bible?

Read and comprehend.

Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

WISDOM IS JUSTIFIED BY HER CHILDREN! Luke 7:35

A TRUE Christian has passed that stage my friend, because we've learnt a perfect way to be guiltless of all those obsolete rules you're keeping in your head!

By studying Jesus' thoughts, words and actions we've overcome all these elementary things.

It's like trying to drag a professor in the field back to Kindergarten, simply because you heard that his teacher started teaching him directly from JSS 1. So even while discussing with him you and hearing him saying all what the KG wanted to achieve, you're still arguing that he supposed to attend the KG first!

My friend, a TRUE Christian will observe all those in a much easier and excellent way than Moses who was given those laws.

WHY?

Because we have the greatest counselor of all time "Jesus Christ" {Isaiah 9:6} perhaps you need to go back and learn what the title COUNSELOR means then add WONDERFUL to it!

Maximus69:


There you go again misinformed churchgoer!

"Hell" means "Grave" until God's kingdom come, everyone who dies goes there!

Only those God wanted to come back to life will be resurrected from Hell!

Another crap from this false cult called JW.


The Word Hell is translated from four words that mean different things.
(Hades,and Sheol meaning the grave, Tartarus( darkness) and
Gehanna(Hell fire),

Their is abundance evidence in the Bible to prove that Gehanna which Is Hellfire will exist at the time of the end of the world and wicked people shall burn in it.

Any teaching that is contrary to this like yours is from the pit of Hell.



Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


Mark 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Maximus69:


WISDOM IS JUSTIFIED BY HER CHILDREN! Luke 7:35

A TRUE Christian has passed that stage my friend, because we've learnt a perfect way to be guiltless of all those obsolete rules you're keeping in your head!

By studying Jesus' thoughts, words and actions we've overcome all these elementary things.

It's like trying to drag a professor in the field back to Kindergarten, simply because you heard that his teacher started teaching him directly from JSS 1. So even while discussing with him you and hearing him saying all what the KG wanted to achieve, you're still arguing that he supposed to attend the KG first!

My friend, a TRUE Christian will observe all those in a much easier and excellent way than Moses who was given those laws.

WHY?

Because we have the greatest counselor of all time "Jesus Christ" {Isaiah 9:6} perhaps you need to go back and learn what the title COUNSELOR means then add WONDERFUL to it!

Keep deceiving yourself with wishfull thinking.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of
heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

blueAgent:



Even if we do that, it will still not convince stiffnecked people like you.

You said Jesus promised that you will lay your hands and cure sick people, right?

Go and cure Covid19 nah, leave people whether they will believe or not!

When Jehovah's Witnesses said they're not here to cure but PREACH and TEACH people God's word and to unite people from all over the earth to form a global family of peace loving worshipers, they aren't waiting for you to believe before they did justice to what they claim Jesus asked them to do!

At least go and do what Jesus asked you to do first, leave unbelievers with their own palavah!

You LIAR!