₦airaland Forum

davidnazee:
[s]Like I said earlier, You are a liar and only accept what you think supports your arguement.
Yufi is not Ife.. Its only you yorubas that claim it to be Ife. Scholars have already agreed that it is not Ife.
Because you are foolish you failed to realize that the paper you are refering to says that there are supposedly two Yufi (one that is real and located in ancient Zimbabwe empire and one that is mythical and assumed to be Ife.) Nobody accepts myths as reality because its always false.[/s]

ghostwon:
[s]Good job bro.
The yar.iba dwells in myths because he has no actual history.
It seems the Nile passes through Yufi someone tell me: does the Nile pass through ife ?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24328593?seq=1[/s]

Hahahaha!

He has seen his public disgrace in p.160. of the same paper where the same author rubbishes his emotions.

No where did the paper say one Yufi is real and one is mythical. It's only voices in your Benin head that told you that.

Let me join the author to rubbish you.

(1) The Western Yufi is the much talked about Yufi.
---- See line 6 and 7 of the summary page where it says:

"There has been more discussion of Yufi's western face which was in contact with Mali and located by ibn Battuta towards the lower Niger."

This western face is obviously no South Africa --- otherwise you will have to upgrade a screenshot of your Geography WAEC result.

(2) "...But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."


This is a big slap on your face davidnazee. From "your" own reference?? What a pity!??

Thank God, unlike you, most neutral observer here can read and complete sentences.

Try again, you may be lucky!


I really understand why "Yufi" drives you Binis crazy.

If I was a Bini, I may go bunkers like you all as well.

TAO11:
Hahahaha!

He has seen his public disgrace in p.160. of the same paper where rhe same author rubbishes his emotions.

No where did the paper say one Yufi is real and one is mythical. It's only voices in your Benin head that told you that.

Let me join the author to rubbish you.

(1) The Western Yufi is the much talked about Yufi.
---- See line 6 and 7 of the summary page where it says:

"There has been more discussion of Yufi's western face which was in contact with Mali and located by ibn Battuta towards the lower Niger."

This western face is obviously no South Africa --- otherwise you will have to upgrade a screenshot of your Geography WAEC result.

(2) "...But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."


This is a big slap on your face davidnazee. From "your" own reference?? What a pity!??

Thank God, unlike you, most neutral observer here can read and complete sentences.

Try again, you may be lucky!


I really underatand why "Yufi" drives you Binis crazy.

If I was a Bini, I may go bunkers like you all as well.

Do you even think or reason properly before u write?
Scholars agree that Yufi didn’t exist in both south-eastern and Western Africa but only in one.. now scholars agree on the location and timeline of Yufi in southeastern Africa but in Ife’s case as Yufi it is all assumptions based on myths.
Can’t u reason beyond your nose and understand simple logic? Ife is not Yufi Ibn Battuta talked about.

Thank God I’m Edo.

davidnazee:
[s]Do you even think or reason properly before u write?
Scholars agree that Yufi didn’t exist in both south-eastern and Western Africa but only in one.. now scholars agree on the location and timeline of Yufi in southeastern Africa but in Ife’s case as Yufi it is all assumptions based on myths.
Can’t u reason beyond your nose and understand simple logic? Ife is not Yufi Ibn Battuta talked about.

Thank God I’m Edo.[/s]

Yes that's in the first page. And it is clearly stated to be an assumption by commentators. Only a fool finishes primary one and claims to have all there is to Western education.

But after combing through all the evidence, he submits in his final summary that:

There are indeed two faces of Yufi. One in Southern Africa, and the other in West Africa.

He noted that the West Africa Yufi is the much talked about. And he identified it as Ife.

A very sad, depressing, painful, and life-threatening fact for Edo liars like gregyboy, davidnazee, and ghostwon.

Sane people, please see attachment below.

TAO11:
Yes that's in the first page. And it is clearly stated to be an assumption by commentators. Only a fool finishes primary one and claims to have all there is to Western education.

But after combing through all the evidence, he submits in his final summary that:

There are indeed two faces of Yufi. One in Southern Africa, and the other in West Africa.

He noted that the West Africa Yufi is the much talked about. And he identified it as Ife.

A very sad, depressing, painful, and life-threatening fact for Edo liars like gregyboy, davidnazee, and ghostwon.

Sane people, please see attachment below.

You are still a learner.. I don't know what your understanding of a sane person is.
The document you posted is just an assumption (with no credible evidence) of a Yufi in Nupe/Ife, it doesn't say Ibn Battuta had any discussion with anybody about Yufi in Nupe/Ife or trade with them.
Ibn Battuta in his own testimonies describes interactions with sailors and traders about Yufi and trade in gold he had with Yufi located in Southeastern Africa as you can see in the documents below.

Your document's argument about Yufi being Ife is based on myths about Ife's artwork, which doesn't add up when comparing it to Ibn Battuta's own testimonies about Yufi to determine which Yufi he was talking about. wether there is 2 Yufi is not my argurment but which one Ibn Battuta was referring to and that is the Yufi in Southeastern Africa.
So stop using Ibn Battuta to support your argument about Ife being Yufi because Ibn Battuta didn't even know if Ife existed. The only place Ibn Battuta mentioned in Nigeria area was central nigeria and Ife is not located around there.

davidnazee:
[s]You are still a learner.. I don't know what your understanding of a sane person is.
The document you posted is just an assumption (with no credible evidence) of a Yufi in Nupe/Ife, it doesn't say Ibn Battuta had any discussion with anybody about Yufi in Nupe/Ife or trade with them.
Ibn Battuta in his own testimonies describes interactions with sailors and traders about Yufi and trade in gold he had with Yufi located in Southeastern Africa as you can see in the documents below.

Your document's argument about Yufi being Ife is based on myths about Ife's artwork, which doesn't add up when comparing it to Ibn Battuta's own testimonies about Yufi to determine which Yufi he was talking about. wether there is 2 Yufi is not my argurment but which one Ibn Battuta was referring to and that is the Yufi in Southeastern Africa.
So stop using Ibn Battuta to support your argument about Ife being Yufi because Ibn Battuta didn't even know if Ife existed. The only place Ibn Battuta mentioned in Nigeria area was central nigeria and Ife is not located around there.[/s]

Sane people go with scholars' conclusions, and not with the Benin voices in davidnazee's head.

There is nothing you've said here that has not been debunked in my foregoing comment.

The only assumption mentioned in the authors conclusion is the Nupe misidentification.

For Ife on the other hand, it is said to fit nicely into the geographical, political, and economic realities lf the western phase of Yufi.

A very sad and life-threatening fact for Edo liars like you.

Wake me up when you come up with an argument (rather than you already refuted repitition). Facts dey pepper am for body. You go hear wehn!!

Sane readers, see attachment below:

TAO11:
I insult you because you are willfully dvmb. You are simply too dvmb to be alive, as you deny what is blatantly obvious before your eyes.

You simply can't believe your eyes and your mind that your newly found slavemaster land (Nupe) was debunked, while your ancestral slavemaster land (Ife) was upheld.

The text clearly reads, Yufi "is normally taken to mean Nufe (Nupe) on the supposition of a mislection of Arabic n as y. But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."

Now to spoonfeed your kindergerten brain as you obviously can't read for yourself:

(1) "Supposition" :-- For the sake of your rusty brain, the simple equivalnece of this word is "assumption".

In other words, the widespread rendering of "Yufi" as "Nufe (Nupe)" is an assumption.

(2) "But" :-- For the purpose of your clogged brain, this word is a conjuction which shows a contrast between the Nufe (Nupe) assumption, and the Ufe (Ife) reading.

(3) The Ife reading is said clearly by the text, in black and white, to be "a more faithful reading" in contrast to "Nupe" which is based on a mere assumption. Note that the word "faithful" here signify "accurate" unlike "assumption".

(4) In addition to being "accurate", the Ife rendering of "Yufi" is said to match the "geography" as described by Ibn Battûta.

(5) In addition to being "accurate" and matching in "geography", the "Ife" rendering of "Yufi" is also said to match "the political and economic realities of that time" as described by Ibn Battûta.


This is how to catch self-imposed fools like gregyboy --- that is, by breaking it down to their clogged brain kindergaten level such that there is no where else for them to take cover.

Nigga so very pained when i quote him because i always burst is liars


Bigotry has blinded

TAO11


Dont quote me such work you know me i will pay no attention to it

Point 1 But more faithfully reading will be ufe pronunced as ife,this is acceptable geographical and its fit nicely the the political and economic realities at that time


Point 2: nupe lands remain important for this argument since there are artistic and linguistic clues that it serves as the link between ife and mali empire


The author didnt come to conclusions on both point.....

Stop quoting such works here..... You dummy

Even if you want to let a nupe person be present to defend thier point

Your brothers know you are fooling yourself they have all left leaving you to fight your lies

gregyboy:
[s]Nigga so very pained when i quote him because i always burst is liars


Bigotry has blinded

TAO11


Dont quote me such work you know me i will pay no attention to it

Point 1 But more faithfully reading will be ufe pronunced as ife,this is acceptable geographical and its fit nicely the the political and economic realities at that time


Point 2: nupe lands remain important for this argument since there are artistic and linguistic clues that it serves as the link between ife and mali empire


The author didnt come to conclusions on both point.....

Stop quoting such works here..... You dummy

Even if you want to let a nupe person be present to defend thier point

Your brothers know you are fooling yourself they have all left leaving you to fight your lies [/s]

You are the reason why dvmmies are called dvmmies.

davidnazee:
You are still a learner.. I don't know what your understanding of a sane person is.
The document you posted is just an assumption (with no credible evidence) of a Yufi in Nupe/Ife, it doesn't say Ibn Battuta had any discussion with anybody about Yufi in Nupe/Ife or trade with them.
Ibn Battuta in his own testimonies describes interactions with sailors and traders about Yufi and trade in gold he had with Yufi located in Southeastern Africa as you can see in the documents below.

Your document's argument about Yufi being Ife is based on myths about Ife's artwork, which doesn't add up when comparing it to Ibn Battuta's own testimonies about Yufi to determine which Yufi he was talking about. wether is 2 Yufi is not my argurment but which one Ibn Battuta was referring to and that is the Yufi in Southeastern Africa.
So stop using Ibn Battuta to support your argument about Ife being Yufi because Ibn Battuta didn't even know if Ife existed. The only place Ibn Battuta mentioned in Nigeria area was central nigeria and Ife is not located around there.

If the Yorubas don't want their recently created Ife historical myth to die a natural death and be destroyed by the Benin who are armed with real, authentic and credible history and logic, the Yorubas must avoid debating history with the Benins.

The Benin have repeatedly shown with logic and evidences that Yoruba have no history but myths.

Almost all Yoruba debaters have thrown in the towel and run away but TAO11 has stubbornly remained, allowing the Benin to be doing incalculable damages to the Ife/Yoruba project.

There was nothing concrete about Ife on ground by way of a thriving village let alone town not to talk of a city before 1930.

The Yoruba have tried to link Ife to Benin through one mythical Ogane, who lived in a town east of Benin, at a distance of 900 miles that took 20 moons or 20 months or 1 year 8 months to travel.

This was dismissed as nonsense because Ife is not east but west of Benin and Ife is only 171 miles from Benin and not 900 miles.

Haven't failed to convince anyone with Ife being Ogane, the Yoruba came up with another place called Ufi and produced a document that have now placed the said Ufi in Zimbabwe and not even in Nigeria. If there was any Ufi in Nigeria it was nothing but myths.

The Yoruba have not been able to answered the simple question of whether there:

1. Were the names, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Ife in existence between 1475 to 1897.

2. If these names were in existence, why were they not recorded in the history of Benin that was
documented by the European at this period.

3. How would the Yoruba explain the fact that, every people that had any form of relationship with Benin during this period of Benin history was documented, referenced and mentioned in the thousands of pages of Benin history except these names, of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Ife.

4. It's inconceivable and implausible that Ife would have been in existence and a thriving town and not have been mentioned in the first four hundred years of Benin history.

5. Every thriving towns, rulers and people that was worth their names, were mentioned in the first four hundred years of Benin history...towns, people and rulers in western, eastern, south south and middle belt were all recorded and documented in Benin history but Ife, Ooni and Oduduwa are missing from the history books.

Everything being said about Ife now are stories wrapped around archeological discoveries, this is not history.

There are no written documentation of an Ooni saying something between 1475 to 1897.

There are no documented eye witness accounts of people living in Ife between 1475 to 1897.

Yorubas are only relying on archeological and anthropological interpretations of remains of some dug up dirt and materials to explain the lack of history of Ife.

If they don't stop debating the Benin, their Ife myth is going to be destroyed beyond repair. They can carry on deceiving other tribes and themselves but not the Benin.

Benin is the home of the oldest, most comprehensive and authentic eye witness written accounts and documentation of history in Nigeria.

The Benin people are very much at home with real history and they can easily spot and recognise any fabricated myth being presented as history and destroy it, so it's for the good of the Yoruba to avoid the Benin at all cost when it comes to debating history.

1. Ife have been discredited as not being Ogane with evidence and logic.

2. Ife have been discredited as not being Yufi in Zimbabwe with evidence.

3. Ife as been shown as not having any physical relationship with Benin between 1475 and 1897

4. Ife have been shown not to have been mentioned as a thriving village or town between 1475 and 1897.

5. It has been shown that the names Ife, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ooni didn't enter Benin history and lexicon until 1930.

Ife is nothing but a recently created myth that archeologists and anthropologists are trying to find evidence to solve and support.

TAO11 is undoing and destroying the works of countless Yoruba professors of history and their foreign archeologist and anthropologists by continuing to debate the Benin.

These debates is only showing Ife history to be a myth.

I think we should be more scholastical in our approach rather than playing to the gallery of smear criticism
Your references are valid but am still trying to see the gap in literature viz-a-viz your findings?
Lets make more references pls.....

TAO11:
Yes, Ife has been documented into writings by the most travelled explorer of all time --- the Arab Ibn Battuta --- for about a century before Benin will ever get noticed by some Europeans who were seeking a route to Asia through West Africa.

Ibn Battuta in the early and mid1300s documented on "Yufi" just like the Portuguese in the late 1400s documented on "Benin"

The difference is that we did not timidly accept the brown man's mis-rendering of "Ufe/Ife" as "Yufi", unlike the Edo people who timidly accepted the white man's misrendering of "Ubini/Ibini" as "Benin".

Moreover, it is not skin tone which dictates our history. I am not sure the Binis can say the same considering how they sheepishly accepted the mis-rendering "Benin".

However, I know of a "white" missionary, David Hinderer documenting on Ife, et al. in the 1850s. Leo Frobenius in 1910.

[These are just by the way though since y'all want to see a "white man" in the picture. Hence, debunking samuk's myth of "1930/40"]

See the attachment below for the scholarly identification of Ibn Battuta's Yufi:


Reference:
J. E. G. Sutton: "Ibn Battuta's Yufi - Bronze and Gold in Mid-Iron-Age Africa", Transafrican Journal of History, Vol. 10, No. 1/2 (1981), p.160.

Pusyiter:
I think we should be more scholastical in our approach rather than playing to the gallery of smear criticism
Your references are valid but am still trying to see the gap in literature viz-a-viz your findings?
Lets make more references pls.....

Ibn Battuta in the early and mid1300s documented on "Yufi" just like the Portuguese in the late 1400s documented on "Benin"

Except the Ufi in reference was in Zimbabwe, southern Africa. The description of the place on the referenced document presented as evidence shows the place to be southern Africa. River Nile doesn't runs through Nigeria.

If there was another Ufi in Nigeria, it was a myth not the one referenced.

This only lends further credence to Ife/Ogane/Ufi as being myth.

samuk:
If the Yorubas don't want their recently created Ife historical myth to die a natural death and be destroyed by the Benin who are armed with real, authentic and credible history and logic, the Yorubas must avoid debating history with the Benins.

The Benin have repeatedly shown with logic and evidences that Yoruba have no history but myths.

Almost all Yoruba debaters have thrown in the towel and run away but TAO11 has stubbornly remained, allowing the Benin to be doing incalculable damage to the Ife/Yoruba project.

There was nothing concrete about Ife on ground in way of a thriving village let alone town not to talk of a city before 1930.

The Yoruba have tried to link Ife to Benin through one mythical Ogane, who lived in a town east of Benin, at a distance of 900 miles that took 20 moons or 20 months or 1 year 8 months to travel.

This was dismissed as nonsense because Ife is not east but west of Benin and Ife is only 171 miles from Benin and not 900 miles.

Haven't failed to convince anyone with Ife being Ogane, the Yoruba came up with another place called Ufi and produced a document that have now placed the said Ufi in Zimbabwe and not even in Nigeria. If there was any Ufi in Nigeria it was nothing but myths.

The Yoruba have not been able to answered the simple question of whether there:

1. Were the names, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Ife in existence between 1475 to 1897.

2. If these names were in existence, why were they not recorded in the history of Benin documented be the European at this period.

3. Why was it that every people, that Benin had any form of relationship with during this period of Benin history was documented, referenced and mentioned in the thousands of pages of Benin history except these names, of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Ife.

4. It's inconceivable and implausible that Ife would have been in existence and a thriving town and not have been mentioned in the first four hundred years of Benin history.

5. Every thriving towns, rulers and people that was worth their names, were mentioned in the first four hundred years of Benin history...towns, people and rulers in western, eastern, south south and middle belt were all recorded and documented in Benin history but Ife, Ooni and Oduduwa are missing from the history books.

Everything being said about Ife now are stories wrapped around archeological discoveries, this is not history.

There are no written documentation of an Ooni saying something between 1475 to 1897.

There are no documented eye witness accounts of people living in Ife between 1475 to 1897.

Yorubas are only relying on archeological and anthropological interpretations of remains of some dug up dirt and materials to explain the lack of history of Ife.

If they don't stop debating the Benin, their Ife myth is going to be destroyed beyond repair. They can carry on deceiving other tribes and themselves but not the Benin.

Benin is the home of the oldest, most comprehensive and authentic eye witness written accounts and documentation of history in Nigeria.

The Benin people are very much at home with real history and they can easily spot and recognise any fabricated myth being presented as history and destroy it, so it's for the good of the Yoruba to avoid the Benin at all cost when it comes to debating history.

1. Ife have been discredited as not being Ogane with evidence and logic.

2. Ife have been discredited as not being Yufi in Zimbabwe with evidence.

3. Ife as been shown as not having any physical relationship with Benin between 1475 and 1897

4. Ife have been shown not to have been mentioned as a thriving village or town between 1475 and 1897.

5. It has been shown that the names Ife, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ooni didn't enter Benin history and lexicon until 1930.

Ife is nothing but a recently created myth that archeologists and anthropologists are trying to find evidence to solve and support.

TAO11 is undoing and destroying the works of countless Yoruba professors of history and their foreign archeologist and anthropologists by continuing to debate the Benin.

These debates is only showing Ife history to be a myth.

Provide only one --- just one --- shred of evidence (academic, expert submission, scholarly statement, or archaeological result, etc.) to back up any single one of the many clams in your comment above, I challenge you.

Wake up me up only when you're able to help yourself, otherwise your comments (I mean your lies) amount to nothing but your usual audio rants.

I battered your image here on Nairaland so much that everyone is now beyond convinced that you are a Janus-faced fatuous deluded liar.

You are only struggling to salvage whatever pieces is left of your shattered image.

Well, people's mind have been made up on you --- including pusyiter who, on the basis of how badly I exposed you yesterday, forsook you and fled.

You have a point

samuk:

Ibn Battuta in the early and mid1300s documented on "Yufi" just like the Portuguese in the late 1400s documented on "Benin"

Except the Ufi in reference was in Zimbabwe, southern Africa. The description of the place on the referenced document presented as evidence shows the place to be southern Africa. River Nile doesn't runs through Nigeria.

If there was another Ufi in Nigeria, it was a myth not the one referenced.

This only lends further credence to Ife/Ogane/Ufi as being myth.

TAO11:
Provide only one --- just one --- shred of evidence (academic, expert submission, scholarly statement, or archaeological result, etc.) to back up any single one of the many clams in your comment above, I challenge you.

Wake up me up only when you're able to help yourself, otherwise your comments (I mean your lies) amount to nothing but your usual audio rants.

I battered your image here on Nairaland so much that everyone is now beyond convinced that you are a Janus-faced fatuous deluded liar.

You are only struggling to salvage whatever pieces is left of your shattered image.

Well, people's mind have been made up on you --- including pusyiter who, on the basis of how badly I exposed you yesterday, forsook you and fled.

Nothing you say makes any sense even if it was a dot

I never forsook anybody
I am on the part of a robust academic debate/deliberation
I still believe there is a missing link which I want us to fill?

TAO11:
Provide only one --- just one --- shred of evidence (academic, expert submission, scholarly statement, or archaeological result, etc.) to back up any single one of the many clams in your comment above, I challenge you.

Wake up me up only when you're able to help yourself, otherwise your comments (I mean your lies) amount to nothing but your usual audio rants.

I battered your image here on Nairaland so much that everyone is now beyond convinced that you are a Janus-faced fatuous deluded liar.

You are only struggling to salvage whatever pieces is left of your shattered image.

Well, people's mind have been made up on you --- including pusyiter who, on the basis of how badly I exposed you yesterday, forsook you and fled.

TAO11:
Provide only one --- just one --- shred of evidence (academic, expert submission, scholarly statement, or archaeological result, etc.) to back up any single one of the many clams in your comment above, I challenge you.

Wake up me up only when you're able to help yourself, otherwise your comments (I mean your lies) amount to nothing but your usual audio rants.

I battered your image here on Nairaland so much that everyone is now beyond convinced that you are a Janus-faced fatuous deluded liar.

You are only struggling to salvage whatever pieces is left of your shattered image.

Well, people's mind have been made up on you --- including pusyiter who, on the basis of how badly I exposed you yesterday, forsook you and fled.

For some reasons, you think all these insults will undo and repair the colossal damages you have caused and continue to cause the Ife/Yoruba historical myth by continuing to debate the Benin people who are armed to the teeth with real eye witness historical accounts, written, recorded and documented not opinions of archeologists and anthropologists that can easily be disputed and refuted.

If you want to continue to cause more damages to the Yorubas/Ife brand by allowing the Benin to be exposing your lies for all to see, it's your call, you can continue, but be reminded, you are not doing the Yoruba history any good with your lies that are being exposed daily on this thread.

davidnazee:
Nothing you say makes any sense even if it was a dot

The problems with these Yoruba people is that they don't read through their sources and thoroughly understand and comprehend what their sources are saying before they present them as evidences to support their arguments, living rooms for exposure of their lies and serious bashing by the Benin.

1. The four hundred years arguments of Benin not having any relationship with Ife came from Ryder's documents presented by TAO11 herself.

2. The evidences of Ogane being east of Benin, in a distance of 900 miles with travelling time of 20 moons or 20 months or 1 year 8 months was from a document presented by Metaphysical.

3. Again TAO11 has referenced another document that have shown her Ufi to be in southern Africa.

Not only are their arguments lame and indefensible but they continue to add to the ammunitions of the Benin that are already well armed by presenting these references that work against their arguments.

I don't know if I should just laugh or feel sorry for their stupidity.

You must be clever enough to know when you lost the argument and throw in the towel, every account you are submitting are being used against you and you are continuing and not see any problem with that.

Those that were formerly applauding you have all run away in shame.

TAO11 is carrying on as if there is a medal to be won.

She has tried her best, no one will say she didn't put up a good fight, even her Male Yoruba counterparts have all since run away.

Hope she and other of her likes would have learnt a vital lesson that real history is different from myths.

If you try to steal other people's history, you should be ready to face the consequences.

samuk:
The problems with these Yoruba people is that they don't read through their sources and thoroughly understand and comprehend what their sources are saying before they present them as evidences to support their arguments, living rooms for exposure of their lies and serious bashing by the Benin.

1. The four hundred years arguments of Benin not having any relationship with Ife came from Ryder's documents presented by TAO11 herself.

2. The evidences of Ogane being east of Benin, in a distance of 900 miles with travelling time of 20 moons or 20 months or 1 year 8 months was from a document presented by Metaphysical.

3. Again TAO11 has referenced another document that have shown her Ufi to be in southern Africa.

Not only are their arguments lame and indefensible but they continue to add to the ammunitions of the Benin that are already well armed by presenting these references that work against their arguments.

I don't know if I should just laugh or feel sorry for their stupidity.

You must be clever enough to know when you lost the argument and throw in the towel, every account you are submitting are being used against you and you are continuing and not see and problems with that.

Those that were formerly applauding you have all run away in shame.

TAO11 is carrying on as if there is a medal to be won.

She has tried her best, no one will say she didn't put up a good fight, even her Male Yoruba counterparts have all since run away.

Hope she and other of her likes would have learnt a vital lesson that real history is different from myths.

If you try to steal other people's history, you should be ready to face the consequences.

Right now she is desperately looking for another nonsense myths and assumptions she want to use to support her foolish argument lol

Pusyiter:
I think we should be more scholastical in our approach rather than playing to the gallery of smear criticism
Your references are valid but am still trying to see the gap in literature viz-a-viz your findings?
Lets make more references pls.....

[

He is the only yoruba person here he want to rewrite yoruba history over night.... In so doing they always attach we benins to make it authentic,


TAO11, wants to also claim nupe historical record as ife......

His obsession, with rewriting yoruba history is something else that amazes even is fellow
yoruba people


Benin-ife never existed,we keep singing it to him he wont listen because, there is so much gain if they can link benin-to ife

History recorded no relationship with between benin and ife even when other yorubas states were documented by Europeans who came to visit benin, ife was omitted, they came up with orun oba ado cooked up story were the benins goes to bury the benin oba heads in ife, the Portuguese and other European saw so many oba demise but they never recorded that the oba heads were been taking to ife for burial......


The benin-ife relationships who only came up during the time benin were in the former western region, the Oduduwa myth was originated to unite the all western tribe to one ancestory benins thinking it will do them good accepted it, upon the acceptance we benin were still marginalize When we left the western region the benin historian had rewriting a counter story of Oduduwa to favour them, but that was the biggest mistake they made till today , instead of debunking the entire claims and that it was a made up stunt, through the years the lies have been made to cover up more lies instead of telling the truth there was never a connection btw both party

gregyboy:
[

He is the only yoruba person here he want to rewrite yoruba history over night.... In so doing they always attach we benins to make it authentic,


TAO11, wants to also claim nupe historical record as ife......

His obsession, with rewriting yoruba history is something else that amazes even is fellow
yoruba people


Benin-ife never existed,we keep singing it to him he wont listen because, there is so much gain if they can link benin-to ife

History recorded no relationship with between benin and ife even when other yorubas states were documented by Europeans who came to visit benin, ife was omitted, they came up with orun oba ado cooked up story were the benins goes to bury the benin oba heads in ife, the Portuguese and other European saw so many oba demise but they never recorded that the oba heads were been taking to ife for burial......


The benin-ife relationships who only came up during the time benin were in the former western region, the Oduduwa myth was originated to unite the all western tribe to one ancestory benins thinking it will do them good accepted it, upon the acceptance we benin were still marginalize When we left the western region the benin historian had rewriting a counter story of Oduduwa to favour them, but that was the biggest mistake they made till today , instead of debunking the entire claims and that it was a made up stunt, through the years the lies have been made to cover up more lies instead of telling the truth there was never a connection btw both party

I agree with you 100% on this one. Doesn't mean I will agree with your next comments, but on this one comment we share the same view.

I got curious about Benin history when I first settled in Paris, you see I had studied in several French universities spread all over France. When I got to Paris, I often studied in the "Bibliothèque nationale de France" (BnF), one day I was passing by one of the ancient globes which were being exposed in the BnF, and I saw (for the first time in my life) what Africa looked like before colonisation. I looked at West Africa and I saw a huge country named Benin whose capital is Benin city.

davidnazee:
Right now she is desperately looking for another nonsense myths and assumptions she want to use to support her foolish argument lol

Hopefully she has finally realised her foolery and run away, unless she wants to continue to entertain us and other readers of this thread with more fairytales.

These Yoruba people are terrible when it comes to history.

The Benin will tell you real history and provide you easy to understand evidences.

For example, when Benin tell the history of Benin/Idah or Igala war,

1. They will tell you the year because there was a Portuguese that was resident in Benin at that time, that documented the war and sent a letter about the war back to his king in Portugal in 1515.

2. Benin can point to the Emue-mue statue at Ikpoba hill which was erected to commemorate the war.

3. They point to the Queen Idia mask now referred to as FESTAC mask which was created to commemorate queen Idia, the mother of Oba Esigie who fought in the war and being remembered as the first Benin woman to command and lead an army into war.

4. Benin can point to the same queen Idia mask being worn by every Atta of Igala around their necks, including the current Attah.

In telling this piece of history, the Benin doesn't have to employ the service of foreign professors of archeologists, anthropologists, geologists, geographers and hermaphrodites to come to Benin to start digging the ground for soil samples to test and experiment on, just to confirm that the war really happened.

This is the reason Benin history is different from Yoruba myths.

ghostwon:
I got curious about Benin history when I first settled in Paris, you see I had studied in several French universities spread all over France. When I got to Paris, I often studied in the "Bibliothèque nationale de France" (BnF), one day I was passing by one of the ancient globes which were being exposed in the BnF, and I saw (for the first time in my life) what Africa looked like before colonisation. I looked at West Africa and I saw a huge country named Benin whose capital is Benin city.

When I first visited the British museum in early 1990s , I was amazed to see that a whole section was dedicated to Benin artworks, of all the artworks in the black African section, Benin artworks were the most impressive and most significant.

Few years back, the city of Liverpool was adored with different photos of Benin artworks to celebrate the museum collections.

During the centenary of the fall of Benin in 1997, countless newspapers articles and editorials most by black African descendants in the UK were written to celebrate and remember great Benin. The tube stations and underground were covered in photos of different Benin artworks.

Recently when the auction house sothebys put up a small idia mask pendant which was from a private collection for sale for £2.5 million, countless petition and protests were made by Africans, and it resulted in the sale being withdrawn.

Those back home have no idea about the sort of respect old Benin have abroad.

samuk:
When I first visited the British museum in early 1990s , I was amazed to see that a whole section was dedicated to Benin artworks, of all the artworks in the black African section, Benin artworks were the most impressive and most significant.

Few years back, the city of Liverpool was adored with different photos of Benin artworks to celebrate the museum collections.

During the centenary of the fall of Benin in 1997, countless newspapers articles and editorials most by black African descendants in the UK were written to celebrate and remember great Benin. The tube station and underground were covered in photos of different Benin artworks.

Recently when the auction house sothebys put up a small idia mask pendant which was from a private collection for sale for £2.5 million, countless petition and protests were made by Africans, and it resulted in the sale being withdrawn.

Those back home have no idea about the sort of respect old Benin have abroad.

Yes, indeed.

Tao11 you want to bring ife to light through false history never not when benin is always attached to such account ......

We thankgod benins are not just educational exposed but also internationally exposed, if it was other minor tribe you all would have succeeded without sweat
we will never leave without a fight not even from the most deadliest rival if our forefathers wouldn't run from guns blazing, then we the
New generations we won't run from mere
Words....

Never!!! the more you try the more we expose the lies and the more people hate yorubas for that single reasons

TAO11 you amaze me the most, due to the fact you're a female and your act of desperation to rewrite yoruba undocumented history

Forgodsake scholars are yet to find the location of yufi it is still a debate around different areas, nupe, ife, Zimbabwe but you TAO11 hijacked it and concluded his ife how desperate you can be

Just bcus someone told you ife was never recorded in history you brought a counter claim
That is yet to be fully proven if a nupe was on this thread it will be an hot debate....


AGAIN benin-ife never had a connection

Am still waiting for someone to disprove me

gregyboy:
Tao11 you want to bring ife to light through false history never not when benin is always attached to such account ......

We thankgod benins are not just educational exposed but also internationally exposed, if it was other minor tribe you all would have succeeded without sweat
we will never leave without a fight not even from the most deadliest rival if our forefathers wouldn't run from guns blazing, then we the
New generations we won't run from mere
Words....

Never!!! the more you try the more we expose the lies and the more people hate yorubas for that single reasons

TAO11 you amaze me the most, due to the fact you're a female and your act of desperation to rewrite yoruba undocumented history

Forgodsake scholars are yet to find the location of yufi it is still a debate around different areas, nupe, ife, Zimbabwe but you TAO11 hijacked it and concluded his ife how desperate you can be

Just bcus someone told you ife was never recorded in history you brought a counter claim
That is yet to be fully proven if a nupe was on this thread it will be an hot debate....


AGAIN benin-ife never had a connection

Am still waiting for someone to disprove me

About the Benin-Ife connection, Ryder wasn’t the only scholar that have argued against it. Other scholars have published research work against that connection ever existing.
Most suggests that if there was a connection it probably happened long after the Benin Kingdom and the present dynasty had been established.

Hi—just wanted to point out that I’m still very much here (and will keep trying to participate as long as this global quarantine permits! )

For those trying to bait me into an aimless war of words over claims of superiority, dem go tayah. I’d recommend spending the time to fully read the materials referenced in this thread and others.

For others who are interested in prior discussions that summarize some of the well-known literature on this topic, please refer to the threads below from 8 or 9 years ago. I’d recommend reading the whole discussions if you have time but I’m linking to some posts that contain information on Ife/Ufe/Yufi/Ryder/Thornton/Ibn Battuta/D’Aveiros etc.

The poster PhysicsQED/MHD etc is the same person as SilverSniper, and you’ll see why I respect him so much due to his detailed and well-informed responses:

https://www.nairaland.com/797242/bbcs-documentary-bronze-cast-head/5#9534334

https://www.nairaland.com/1253380/maps-kingdoms-peoples-states-cities/2#15674765

There was another poster by the name of Negro_Ntns (I’m not sure if he is the same person as Dudu_Negro and MetaPhysical or whether he still participates here) whom I vehemently disagreed with on some religious or spiritual (metaphysical!) interpretations that he proposed all those years ago. I’m humbled to say that he may have been more correct and insightful than I knew at the time. A belated apology wherever you are, Negro_Ntns (although there are still many positions of yours that I disagree with).

TerraCotta:
Hi—just wanted to point out that I’m still very much here (and will keep trying to participate as long as this global quarantine permits! )

For those trying to bait me into an aimless war of words over claims of superiority, dem go tayah. I’d recommend spending the time to fully read the materials referenced in this thread and others.

For others who are interested in prior discussions that summarize some of the well-known literature on this topic, please refer to the threads below from 8 or 9 years ago. I’d recommend reading the whole discussions if you have time but I’m linking to some posts that contain information on Ife/Ufe/Yufi/Ryder/Thornton/Ibn Battuta/D’Aveiros etc.

The poster PhysicsQED/MHD etc is the same person as SilverSniper, and you’ll see why I respect him so much due to his detailed and well-informed responses:

https://www.nairaland.com/797242/bbcs-documentary-bronze-cast-head/5#9534334

Don't you find it amazing that any sort of talk about ife heads must involve Benin bronze and a claim that Benin oral tradition states Benin learnt it's art from ife ? You don't realize that the guys in that so called documentary are fooling you ?
First of all, the so called oral tradition which is being quoted is unknown to us the Edo whom are supposed to be the ones who told about that same oral tradition. Basically the charlatans on your so called documentary are putting words into our mouths.

Basically, to give ife art any sort of importance, which would be a necessity for anybody whom is involved in any sort of excavation in ife ( because they need funds, don't they ?), you must attach Benin to it. You must attach the magnificent bronzes of Benin to ife.

Out of a sudden, artefacts plundered from the palace of the Oba and which had not been seen in centuries by commoners are interpreted by some unnamed ghosts. Only the Oba of Benin and few nobles and palace guards and a few visitors actually had the privilege of seeing these artefacts before they were plundered.

Charlatanism doesn't have a nationality.
Why won't you focus on actual historical documents.
Documents produced by eye witnesses. And forget the charlatans ?

The misconceptions of many Yoruba is that the Edo will believe anything so long it is said by a white man.
This is how the yoruba misread the meaning of the word history itself.
Indeed, the Edo are attached to actual history: documents written by eyewitnesses !
It is only coincidental that most of the eye witnesses who could write were white.
If they had been blue, or yellow or black. It wouldn't make a difference ! So long it was written by an eyewitness.

While the Yoruba believe that if they have managed to hoodwink a white man and have him parrot a Yoruba-centric tale, then they have successfully rewritten history and the Edo would have to swallow the yoruba lies.
I believe this very strategy comes from the yoruba slave returnees who sought to take advantage of colonisation by their those they called the colonial masters and whom they previously just called masters.

ghostwon:
Don't you find it amazing that any sort of talk about ife heads must involve Benin bronze and a claim that Benin oral tradition states Benin learnt it's art from ife ? You don't realize that the guys in that so called documentary are fooling you ?
First of all, the so called oral tradition which is being quoted is unknown to us the Edo whom are supposed to be the ones who told about that same oral tradition. Basically the charlatans on your so called documentary are putting words into our mouths.

Basically, to give ife art any sort of importance, which would be a necessity for anybody whom is involved in any sort of excavation in ife ( because you need funds, don't you ?), you must attach Benin to it. You must attach the magnificent bronzes of Benin to ife.

Out of a sudden, artefacts plundered from the palace of the Oba and which had not been seen in centuries by commoners are interpreted by some unnamed ghosts. Only the Oba of Benin and few nobles and palace guards and a few visitors actually had the privilege of seeing these artefacts.

Charlatanism doesn't have a nationality.
Why won't you focus on actual historical documents.
Documents produced by eye witnesses. And forget the charlatans ?

Why must these people always wrap Ife history around Metaphysical, mystical, archeological and anthropological interpretations.

You are required to consults the gods to understand Ife history.

They provide no physical eyewitness evidence to support their Ife story.

If Benin says they owned and ruled Lagos as far back as 1600s.

They will provide you with an independent eyewitness accounts of European who visited Lagos in 1603 and documented what he saw, that the place was filled with no one else but Benin armies with their commanders, four of whom come together every morning to form a court and their reports are despatched to their ruler in Benin daily by two messagers.

This is simple and direct verifiable history. No mysticism, archeology and anthropology involve.

samuk:
Why must these people always wrap Ife history around Metaphysical, mystical, archeological and anthropological interpretations.

You are required to consults the gods to understand Ife history.

They provide no physical eyewitness evidence to support their Ife story.

If Benin says they owned and ruled Lagos as far back as 1600s.

They will provide you with an independent eyewitness accounts of European who visited Lagos in 1603 and documented what he saw, that the place was filled with no one else but Benin armies with there commanders, four of whom come together every morning to form a court and their reports are despatched to their ruler in Benin daily by two messagers.

This is simple and direct verifiable history. No mysticism, archeology and anthropology involve.

That Froebenius who is said to have excavated the first ife head, also said he had discovered Atlantis in ife. This is what these guys do to hype their discoveries and gain funds and fame.

ghostwon:
The misconceptions of many Yoruba is that the Edo will believe anything so long it is said by a white man.
This is how the yoruba misread the meaning of the word history itself.
Indeed, the Edo are attached to actual history: documents written by eyewitnesses !
It is only coincidental that most of the eye witnesses who could write were white.
If they had been blue, or yellow or black. It wouldn't make a difference ! So long it was written by an eyewitness.

While the Yoruba believe that if they have managed to hoodwink a white man and have him parrot a Yoruba-centric tale, then they have successfully rewritten history and the Edo would have to swallow the yoruba lies.
I believe this very strategy comes from the yoruba slave returnees who sought to take advantage of colonisation by their those they called the colonial masters and whom they previously just called masters.

Their European supporters are usually those they feed their lies and just regurgitating what they were told in the titles of archeologists and anthropologists.

The Yoruba will now say there is an archeological and anthropological links. This is all there is to their history.

No physical documented eyewitness accounts to the event they are linking.

I really have to focus on my work now, I will soon deactivate my account.

I can be reached at ghostwonwon@gmail.com