samuk:


In stead of all these grammars and copying and paste of irrelevant documents.

All you should do is to cite just one single instance where the name Oduduwa, Ife and Ooni were specifically mentioned in Benin history between 1480 to 1897.

There are thousands of pages of Benin history mentioning various tribes spanning the first four hundred years and no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni. It's like writing everything about yourself and forget to mention the name of your father, town you or your father comes from, it's even worse if you have do this writing repeatedly for four hundred years without revealing these vital information about yourself.

Don't tell me how historians dug up some stones in Ife and link it to Benin.

My question is why was Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni not mentioned in specific terms in Benin history between 1480 to 1897 the way other places were mentioned, even other Yoruba tribes and towns were mentioned.

Hahaha! Poor cop-out.

A scholarly article mentions European documentions showing Ife-Benin relationship since as early as the 1500s.

But then samuk wants to see the name "Oduduwa", etc. and not just a scholarly journal article from D. M. Bondarenko stating clearly that 1500 European documentations shows Ife-Benin relationship.

my tummy ooo

Good one
Hmmmm, sounds interesting

TAO11:


Notice how he quickly hijacked your questions, but without answering it, quickly attempted to trivialize it by turning it into a joke.

You know why he did that?

He did that because he knows that Oduduwa is not an Edo word and therefore does not have any meaning in Edo language.

He did that because because I already trashed his Mecca and heaven straw-clutching and face-saving distraction here:


Now to answer your question. I will break it down to its pieces so every component is clear.

"Oduduwa".

Breaking this into its component parts and words that make it up.

Odu t'o du uwa!

So taking this components one after another:

"Odu" is the Yoruba word which is, for instance, seen in one attribute of God in Yoruba language, viz. "Olodumare".

"Odu" therefore literally means: "fullness", "totality", "wholesome", or "power".

"t'o" refers literally and simply to the pronoun "who".

"du" here refers literally and simply to the verb "contest".

"Uwa" here refers literally to "grandeur", "honour", "glory".

I know this particularly ancient Yoruba word because I am very familiar with one of the few Yoruba dialects that still preserves it till date.

There we see names of noble families till date like: (A)tewogbuwa (One who has honour, grandeur, and glory gently placed in his hands); (A)gbelegbuwa (One to whom honour, grandeur, and glory came to meet at home); etc.

In an Ijebu community in Lagos with which I am very familiar, during some annual ritual festival, the King (who is rarely or never seen in public) comes out to the open town square as a required rite just for the purpose of been beheld by the public in his full glory while traditional activities go on.

This act of his public appearance (as simple as it may sound) is no minor thing. It is something of great joy and ecstasy, especially as he will "dance" to the sounds of the town's ancient tradition gbedu drums preserved only for that purpose.

The locals describe this act of his public appearance, dance, rites, etc. by the phrase: "Oba 'n gun uwa" (The King is set or stationed receiving honour and glory).

In sum:

Oduduwa --- Odu t'o du uwa --- means: "The wholesome one who contested for honour and glory".


The name "Oduduwa" from its meaning is obviously a cognomen he got having emerged king of unified Ife.

Having known the meaning of Oduduwa in Benin and yoruba dialects, the question is, where did he originate from?
Thereafter, who are his children?

Pusyiter:
Having known the meaning of Oduduwa in Benin and yoruba dialects, the question is, where did he originate from?
Thereafter, who are his children?

Notice that he didn't give thw meaning of the name "Oduduwa".

That's simply because the name "Oduduwa" does not exist in Edo language.

He instead gave a different word "Izoduwa". Don't be deceived. He his very cunning. You ask for "Oduduwa". Lol.

Moreover, The "Izoduwa" character has been debunked by historians as a deliberately unauthentic, pseudohistorical, and apocryphal character.

I can provide you evidence for this debunking by historians.

Well, names can be pronounced differently based on the accent of the people thus, conscripted as such
For instance a yoruba man pronounces 'Champion' as 'sampion' this does not remove the fact that he refers to one thing, but pronounced as another.
Another instance is the spelling of the tribe 'Ibo' by the Whiteman instead of 'Igbo'
Same can be said of Oduduwa to be Izoduwa, Idoduwa etc.....
Lets go to the next research question which is: Oduduwa's origin and Children?

TAO11:


Notice that he didn't give thw meaning of the name "Oduduwa".

That's simply because the name "Oduduwa" does not exist in Edo language.

He instead gave a different word "Izoduwa". Don't be deceived. He his very cunning. You ask for "Oduduwa". Lol.

Moreover, The "Izoduwa" character has been debunked by historians as a deliberately unauthentic, pseudohistorical, and apocryphal character.

I can provide you evidence for this debunking by historians.

Pusyiter:
Well, names can be pronounced differently based on the accent of the people thus, conscripted as such
For instance a yoruba man pronounces 'Champion' as 'sampion' this does not remove the fact that he refers to one thing, but pronounced as another.
Another instance is the spelling of the tribe 'Ibo' by the Whiteman instead of 'Igbo'
Same can be said of Oduduwa to be Izoduwa, Idoduwa etc.....
Lets go to the next research question which is: Oduduwa's origin and Children?

But the most powerful argument against the "Izoduwa" is that historians have rejected it as completely false and deliberately unauthentic. [If you want the evidence]

That's the bigger issue than his giving us the name "Izoduwa".

Moreover, the ancient Binis celebrate "Oduduwa" festival till date. [If you want the evidence]

They can very well pronounce "Odudduwa" it just doesn't have any meaning in their Edo language, as it is a Yoruba word.


Having clarified that, to answer your question:
Oduduwa is an Ife-Yoruba man whose descendants established kingdoms till date such as the Owu kingdom, the Ketu kingdom (in Benin Republic), the Benin kingdom, the Ila kingdom, the Sabe kingdom (Benin Republic), the Popo kingdom (Benin Republic), the Oyo kingdom, the Ilesa kingdom, the Ijebu-Ode kingdom, the Owo kingdom, the Ado kingdom, the Ode-Ondo kingdom, etc. (not necessarily in this order).

Pusyiter:
Well, names can be pronounced differently based on the accent of the people thus, conscripted as such
For instance a yoruba man pronounces 'Champion' as 'sampion' this does not remove the fact that he refers to one thing, but pronounced as another.
Another instance is the spelling of the tribe 'Ibo' by the Whiteman instead of 'Igbo'
Same can be said of Oduduwa to be Izoduwa, Idoduwa etc.....
Lets go to the next research question which is: Oduduwa's origin and Children?

The most famous of all Oduduwa children was Oranmiyan, who according to Benin royal history was sent for, to return back to Benin after the last Ogiso died without a son.

The story was, the Benin actually wanted the banished prince, now Oduduwa to return himself, but he was too old and couldn't make the long journey back to Benin, so he sent his son, Oranmiyan that was born and brought up in Ife.

TAO11:


Notice that he didn't give thw meaning of the name "Oduduwa".

That's simply because the name "Oduduwa" does not exist in Edo language.

He instead gave a different word "Izoduwa". Don't be deceived. He his very cunning. You ask for "Oduduwa". Lol.

Moreover, The "Izoduwa" character has been debunked by historians as a deliberately unauthentic, pseudohistorical, and apocryphal character.

I can provide you evidence for this debunking by historians.

The meaning you gave was for the name Odu-to-du-wa not Oduduwa. Go back to your post.

Without the to, your Oduduwa will literally mean powercontestglory. Does this make sense to anyone

Like every answer you Yoruba give to simple questions, you go all over the place to gather pieces of information to formulate your answers.

You just can't give a simple answer to a simple question.

samuk:


The most famous of all Oduduwa children was Oranmiyan, who according to Benin royal history was sent for, to return back to Benin after the last Ogiso died without a son.

The story was, the Benin actually wanted the banished prince, now Oduduwa to return himself, but he was too old and couldn't make the long journey back to Benin, so he sent his son, Oranmiyan that was born and brought up in Ife.

Exactly! The bolded is what historians have deemed to be a deliberately unauthentic, apocryphal, pseudo-historical joke.

samuk:


The meaning you gave was for the name Odu-to-du-wa not Oduduwa. Go back to your post.

Without the to, your Oduduwa will literally mean powercontestglory. Does this make sense to anyone

Like every answer you Yoruba give to simple questions, you go all over the place to gather pieces of information to formulate your answers.

You just can't give a simple answer to a simple question

Exactly, because that's what "Oduduwa" literally is. And that's how names are.

For example "Olawale" means "Ola wa si Ile". There is no way you can stretch "Olawale" to mean for example "Izowale"

Moreover, your powercontestglory tantrum is your "stupidestest" attempt at slyness you've ever made.

Anyways sane people know better than reading or writting translated words together without space (even though your "translation" was deliberately inaccurate). --- my belle oo.

"Izoduwa", on the other hand, (which is a joke to begin with according to historians) does not break down to "Oduduwa" no matter how hard you try.

TAO11:


Exactly! The bolded is what historians have deemed to be a deliberately unauthentic, apocryphal, pseudo-historical joke.

It that the answer to the question you were asked

samuk:


It that the answer to the question you were asked

I answered the question.

And also exposed your lie.

Can't I do two things again?? ??

TAO11:


Exactly, because that's what Oduduwa literally is. And that's how names are.

For example "Olawale" means "Ola wa si Ile". There is no way you can stretch "Olawale" to mean for example "Izowale"


"Izoduwa", on the other hand, (which is a joke to begin with according to historians) does not break down to "Oduduwa" no matter how hard you try.

Before the little distractions. I am still waiting for the answers to the below questions. If the guy wants to know more about Benin/Ife relationship there are enough material on the internet for him to read.

Back to where we stop......

In stead of all these grammars and copying and paste of irrelevant documents.

All you should do is to cite just one single instance where the name Oduduwa, Ife and Ooni were specifically mentioned in Benin history between 1480 to 1897.

There are thousands of pages of Benin history mentioning various tribes spanning the first four hundred years and no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni. It's like writing everything about yourself and forget to mention the name of your father, town you or your father comes from, it's even worse if you have do this writing repeatedly for four hundred years without revealing these vital information about yourself.

Don't tell me how historians dug up some stones in Ife and link it to Benin.

My question is why was Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni not mentioned in specific terms or by names in Benin history between 1480 to 1897 the way other places were mentioned, even other Yoruba tribes and towns were mentioned.

Ok
Good research question
Also, was there any trace to Ife relations with the international communities (Whitemen)

samuk:



Before the little distractions. I am still waiting for the answers to the below questions. If the guy wants to know more about Benin/Ife relationship there are enough material on the internet for him to read.

Back to where we stop......

In stead of all these grammars and copying and paste of irrelevant documents.

All you should do is to cite just one single instance where the name Oduduwa, Ife and Ooni were specifically mentioned in Benin history between 1480 to 1897.

There are thousands of pages of Benin history mentioning various tribes spanning the first four hundred years and no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni. It's like writing everything about yourself and forget to mention the name of your father, town you or your father comes from, it's even worse if you have do this writing repeatedly for four hundred years without revealing these vital information about yourself.

Don't tell me how historians dug up some stones in Ife and link it to Benin.

My question is why was Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni not mentioned in specific terms or by names in Benin history between 1480 to 1897 the way other places were mentioned, even other Yoruba tribes and towns were mentioned.

Pusyiter:
Ok
Good research question
Also, was there any trace to Ife relations with the international communities (Whitemen)

No, Ife history was created in 1930/40

The white man has been writing about Benin history for almost 600 years, since about 1475.

Pusyiter:
Ok
Good research question
Also, was there any trace to Ife relations with the international communities (Whitemen)

samuk:



Before the little distractions. I am still waiting for the answers to the below questions. If the guy wants to know more about Benin/Ife relationship there are enough material on the internet for him to read.

Back to where we stop......

In stead of all these grammars and copying and paste of irrelevant documents.

All you should do is to cite just one single instance where the name Oduduwa, Ife and Ooni were specifically mentioned in Benin history between 1480 to 1897.

There are thousands of pages of Benin history mentioning various tribes spanning the first four hundred years and no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni. It's like writing everything about yourself and forget to mention the name of your father, town you or your father comes from, it's even worse if you have do this writing repeatedly for four hundred years without revealing these vital information about yourself.

Don't tell me how historians dug up some stones in Ife and link it to Benin.

My question is why was Ife, Oduduwa and Ooni not mentioned in specific terms or by names in Benin history between 1480 to 1897 the way other places were mentioned, even other Yoruba tribes and towns were mentioned.

I have already debunked your pretentious question with which you seek to deceive your gullible Benin audience.

You keep yapping that no European documention of Ife and Benin relationship exist, when exactly scholars say the precise opposite.

I have cited you the following from D. M. Bondarenko which states clearly that Europeans writings document relationships between Ife and Benin since as early as the 1500s and 1600s:

"Historically, ethnographic sources and EUROPEAN WRITINGS of the early and mid-sixteenth century [i.e. early/mid 1500s] (based on relations from Benin of the late fifteenth century) and of the early seventeenth century, also testify to the Second Benin Dynasty's links with Ife."

Reference:
Dmitri M. Bondarenko; "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30, Cambridge University Press, (2003), p.71.


Having said that, your question of which European documents, and what is its specific contents (such as the names of the people in the document, etc.) becomes a red-herring.

To clarify further, you do not know what 1500s and 1600s European writtings D. M. Bondarenko was talking of. So, stop pretending to know what names it contains or does not contain.

What has been established and which debunks your oft-repeated myth, however, is that early Europeans writings from the 1500s and 1600s document relationship between Ife and Benin (regardless of the names of the specific Oonis, Obas, etc. in the document).

Now I know you've gotten all I just explained.

samuk:


No Ife history was created in 1930/40

The white man has been writing about Benin history for almost 600 years, since about 1475.

Pusyiter:
Ok
Good research question
Also, was there any trace to Ife relations with the international communities (Whitemen)

Yes, Ife has been documented into writings by the most travelled explorer of all time --- the Arab Ibn Battuta --- for about a century before Benin will ever get noticed by some Europeans who were seeking a route to Asia through West Africa.

Ibn Battuta in the early and mid1300s documented on "Yufi" just like the Portuguese in the late 1400s documented on "Benin"

The difference is that we did not timidly accept the brown man's mis-rendering of "Ufe/Ife" as "Yufi", unlike the Edo people who timidly accepted the white man's misrendering of "Ubini/Ibini" as "Benin".

Moreover, it is not skin tone which dictates our history. I am not sure the Binis can say the same considering how they sheepishly accepted the mis-rendering "Benin".

However, I know of a "white" missionary, David Hinderer documenting on Ife, et al. in the 1850s. Leo Frobenius in 1910.

[These are just by the way though since y'all want to see a "white man" in the picture. Hence, debunking samuk's myth of "1930/40"]

See the attachment below for the scholarly identification of Ibn Battuta's Yufi:


Reference:
J. E. G. Sutton: "Ibn Battuta's Yufi - Bronze and Gold in Mid-Iron-Age Africa", Transafrican Journal of History, Vol. 10, No. 1/2 (1981), p.160.

TerraCotta:


A perfect example of why I save my responses for worthwhile people and topics. I sincerely don’t even know what you mean by this, but if these references to Suzanne Preston Blier’s work have interested you, please delve into her bibliography here: https://scholar.harvard.edu/blier/biocv

You will see her upcoming book (titled “1325: How Medieval Africa Made the World Modern”) mentioned, which I expect will cover her research on Ife arts and this export economy I referenced in greater detail.

Her 2015 book that I have mentioned here (and in years past) is available from Cambridge University Press here: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/art-and-risk-in-ancient-yoruba/1D8136F1682FC0244F690903B437653D#fndtn-information (not sure how easily available it is in Nigeria itself, unfortunately)

Suzanne Blier lecture in French (coincidentally on her research on Vodun in Benin Republic, in case that somehow clarifies your question above):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9VYFlJbRo

Suzanne Blier lecture on African trade routes and putative links between the roots of the Prester John concept, historical Coptic Christian centers in medieval West Africa and the global trading networks I alluded to in my other posts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HTZsaksh84

Edit: Silver Sniper—please refer to 10:00 - 15:00 of the last video for the information on wadis and important references that tally with my earlier post.

Hi SilverSniper (and TAO and others of course)—I realize there’s a lot of material in my earlier posts, but I’ll take the risk of overwhelming readers with material and provide a few more supportive primary sources on this idea of Ife’s trans-Saharan trading connection with Coptic Christian centers in Egypt and the Sudan.

As you might recall from prior years, I’ve been skeptical of attempts to tie Ife (and West African cultures more broadly) to “ancient Egypt”, “Nubia” etc in the past, despite some tantalizing references and points of cultural conversion that suggested ties.

The upcoming Blier book I mentioned in an earlier post will cover the material she discusses in the video above—namely, that Ife’s connection to global trade may have come through trading networks of Coptic Christians that flourished in this 14th-century period—, but the material inspired me to re-read some books with a closer eye towards details that might confirm or refute her uniquely original insights. Consider this passage from Resident H.L Ward-Price’s “Dark Subjects”, the insightful memoir that contains the endlessly-quoted reference to the Oba of Benin’s prayer for the Oni of Ife:

“The late Oni of Ife, who died in 1930, was one of the old types of African chiefs, whose mind was rooted in the traditions of the past. He will, no doubt, prove to be the last of that kind, now that money-making and education have become the main objects in the life of the people. Many a time have I watched him, sitting on a leather pouffs, clothed in three or four thick robes, even on a hot day, his waist bulging with charms to keep off every conceivable kind of evil, and in his hands a long white ram’s tail, fixed to a leather handle. With this he would acknowledge the salutations from the continuous stream of his subjects prostrating themselves before him. His principal topic of conversation, repeated again and again, was the relationship of the city of Ife and the crown he wore to the rest of the world. While he vigorously expounded the story, his attendants cooled him with strong gusts of air from the long-handled circular fans of leather, decorated with ostrich feathers; others sopped the sweat from his face or sponged his hot skin under the many-coloured velvets he wore.

Ife, he used to say, is the most ancient place of human habitation in the world. It was the birthplace of all mankind. White men, who were nothing more than ‘peeled’ black men, were, he declared, his own ‘sons,’ he being the direct descendant of Oduwa, the founder of the human race. Tears would flow as he complained that the ancient authority and dignity of his crown were rapidly passing away under the British regime, which showed no interest in the great traditions of Ife...”

NOTE: for other readers not named SilverSniper , please don’t draw me into a discussion on the merits of a mythological claim on the role of Ife as the birthplace of humanity—that is an old and well-worn subject, and you will find similar claims in many other ancient cultures. Despite the title of the thread, I’m also not particularly interested in discussing the seniority/status etc of the Ooni re: other Nigerian monarchs beyond what has been said here as that discussion has been held endlessly and people can come to any conclusion they wish. I’ve written on here in earlier years that I am less interested in the careers of monarchs and so on and more interested in the dynamics of cultural development, social evolution and economic interaction. I’m focused here on the new and illuminating connections between Ife and related polities like Benin to the global economy of the medieval world. The bolded portions include the material I find most impressive and interesting, including the reference to the ostrich feathers and leather in the regalia of the Ooni.

A few pages earlier, Ward-Price writes the following relevant passages after providing a variant of the foundational myth of Ife with Oduduwa (which he spells Oduwa):

“One point is universally acknowledged to be true, that all the hundreds of towns and villages now scattered over the face of Yorubaland trace their descent from the Mother City of Ife. Wherever they might have migrated from originally, and some say they came from Egypt, it was at Ife that the pioneers first settled and where they created a complicated, but efficient, system of government. There are signs of a high state of civilization having been attained there perhaps over three thousand years ago. Ancient stone images of men and women stand in sacred groves on the outskirts of the city. Some were unearthed by Frobenius, a German traveler, in 1911. Heads with African features, made in bronze and terracotta, have been described by experts as equal to the best in the world of sculpture. A few have been exhibited in London.

There is another survival at Ife which may be worthy of comment. In numerous places can still be seen patches of burnt-clay, standing on their edges. This is part of the paving of old streets, paths, and gutters. The earth studded in this manner was not easily washed away by the rain; nor did it become muddy. This work was done at the order of one of the few ‘Queens’ who have occupied the throne of Ife. She was a great personality, possessing boundless energy. In the course of her reign she acquired a large number of slaves whom she made use of to improve the amenities of the city. One of their tasks was to pave the streets, walks, and gutters with these bits of baked clay. Though this was done hundreds of years ago, the paving still remains in places where it has not been deliberately disturbed. Scores of times my two-ton lorry, fully loaded, has passed over a patch of it near the Ife rest-house without leaving an impression ... Of the two-hundred-and-one shrines dotted about the town, one is called Yesu, and seems to be a relic of the Christianity introduced by European priests five hundred years ago. There is a small hill near the king’s house at Ife, now covered with buildings, which is called the ‘Hill of the Promise.’ On an occasion long past, the townsfolk gathered there and vowed among themselves that they would for evermore renounce the Christian religion, as it interfered too much with their habits and customs,; but when the missionaries again opened up in Ife prior to the Great War [NOTE: World War I], they were, nevertheless, able to collect some adherents.

The official hats still worn to-day by the more important chiefs of Ife are made in a shape closely resembling a bishop’s mitre; they were adopted in olden times when Christianity flourished, and the leaders of religion were also the rulers of the town. But the old gods were not neglected. Almost daily at Ife there is still a feast to some god or other, or a ceremony is performed to celebrate some outstanding event in the people’s history.”

Quoted passages were culled from Ward-Price, H.L. Dark Subjects. Jarrolds Publishers (London), 1939, p. 133-137

Suzanne Blier’s book obviously hasn’t been published yet, but I anticipate that this and similar passages in other works I’ve since re-read might form part of the foundation of her book on the medieval trading networks. As an aside, it reinforces my view that a simplistic reading of these polities as “kingdoms” (or empires or what-have-you) might give us the wrong impression as to how government and society worked in medieval West Africa.

I think trade and the inextricable role of religion—with sodalities like the Ogboni mediating as a combined priesthood, senate and a form of trade union—might be the more fruitful avenue. I have mentioned a few years ago that Obayemi’s work was influential in my thinking, as he proposed the “mini-state” and “mega-state” taxonomy some scholars have used. I’ve developed the ideas in a little more detail but they’re basically from that route and I think would be useful to others trying to understand the political and religious roles of groups like the Igala Mela, Uzama in Benin, Oyo Mesi etc.

TAO11:




Yes, Ife has been documented into writings by the most travelled explorer of all time --- the Arab Ibn Battuta --- at least a century before Benin will ever get noticed by some Europeans who were seeking a route to Asia through West Africa.

Ibn Battuta in the early and mid1300s documented on "Yufi" just like the Portuguese in the late 1400s documented on "Benin"

The difference is that we did not timidly accept the brown man's mis-rendering of "Ufe/Ife" as "Yufi", unlike the Edo people who timidly accepted the white man's misrendering of "Ubini/Ibini" as "Benin".

Moreover, it is not skin tone which dictates our history. I am not sure the Binis can say the same considering how they sheepishly accepted the mis-rendering "Benin".

However, I know of a "white" missionary, David Hinderer documenting on Ife, et al. in the 1850s. Leo Frobenius in 1910.

[These are just by the way though since y'all want to see a "white man" in the picture. Hence, debunking samuk's myth of "1930/40"]

See the attachment below for the scholarly identification of Ibn Battuta's Yufi:


Reference:
J. E. G. Sutton: "Ibn Battuta's Yufi - Bronze and Gold in Mid-Iron-Age Africa", Transafrican Journal of History, Vol. 10, No. 1/2 (1981), p.160.

The nupe people are not here to claim what is theirs but the yorubas are quick to claim it for them....

Nupe which is more closer to mali have not raises a voice but tao11 is raising the voice for the yorubas claiming yufi is ife

The writer didnt come to conclusions but you TAO11 already did, debunking the fact it could also be nupe


You shouldn't even cite an article like this, even if you want to atleast both a yoruba man and a nupe man should be present at the debate.....

But no tao11 will remain unrest

All other yorubas have left with shame and saw no need to patch up thier history any longer but tao11 would remain

Pusyiter
Samuk

TAO11 if we are going to accept this article fod citation a nupe man must be present atleast one
The author didnt conclude it was ife so you shouldn't cite it


I know you will hate me more with this


Ife never had any relationship with benin

When Portuguese asked about the benin sovereignty if there was ife, Oduduwa, oromiyan
The wouldn't have omitted it

gregyboy:

[s]The nupe people are not here to claim what is theirs but the yorubas are quick to claim it for them....

Nupe which is more closer to mali have not raises a voice but tao11 is raising the voice for the yorubas claiming yufi is ife

The writer didnt come to conclusions but you TAO11 already did, debunking the fact it could also be nupe


You shouldn't even cite an article like this, even if you want to atleast both a yoruba man and a nupe man should be present at the debate.....

But no tao11 will remain unrest

All other yorubas have left with shame and saw no need to patch up thier history any longer but tao11 would remain

Pusyiter
Samuk

TAO11 if we are going to accept this article fod citation a nupe man must be present atleast one
The author didnt conclude it was ife so you shouldn't cite it


I know you will hate me more with this


Ife never had any relationship with benin

When Portuguese asked about the benin sovereignty if there was ife, Oduduwa, oromiyan
The wouldn't have omitted it

I noticed you're slow. I already debunked you when I wrote the following on the other thread from where you copied and pasted thus here:

Scholars won't just do some kindagerton sh!t like you did above to come to the conclusion that Yufi is Ife.

They won't write several pages of articles and tons of publications simply repeatedly writting yufi = ufi.

No they don't think with their anvs like you.

The scholarly article debunks your newly found slave-master land, "Nupe", as the referent of "Yufi", while affirming "Ife".

I advice that you read the article. Oh, my bad --- you can't read. I forgot.



Crawl back into your hole and let your Oga talk to me. You're presenting the Benin sides of this discussion as dvmb folks. They won't openly tell you this.

TAO11:


I noticed you're slow. I already debunked you when I wrote the following on the other thread from where you copied and pasted thus here:

Scholars won't just do some kindagerton sh!t like you did above to come to the conclusion that Yufi is Ife.

They won't write several pages of articles and tons of publications simply repeatedly writting yufi = ufi.

No they don't think with their anvs like you.

The scholarly article debunks your newly found slave-master land, "Nupe", as the referent of "Yufi", while affirming "Ife".

I advice that you read the article. Oh, my bad --- you can't read. I forgot.



Crawl back into your hole and let your Oga talk to me. You're presenting the Benin sides of this discussion as dvmb folks. They won't openly tell you this.

In my writeup i didnt even mention one insult

But, everything you wrote was 40% insult and 60% nonsense



The article didnt come to a conclusion on both side but mumuboy already concluding is ife

Your brothers have all left....
I will advise you to do thesame because you're speaking like you're drunk

gregyboy:



[s]In my writeup i didnt even mention one insult

But, everything you wrote was 40% insult and 60% nonsense

The article didnt come to a conclusion on both side but mumuboy already concluding is ife

Your brothers have all left....
I will advise you to do thesame because you're speaking like you're drunk[/s]

I insult you because you are willfully dvmb. You are simply too dvmb to be alive, as you deny what is blatantly obvious before your eyes.

You simply can't believe your eyes and your mind that your newly found slavemaster land (Nupe) was debunked, while your ancestral slavemaster land (Ife) was upheld.

The text clearly reads, Yufi "is normally taken to mean Nufe (Nupe) on the supposition of a mislection of Arabic n as y. But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."

Now to spoonfeed your kindergerten brain as you obviously can't read for yourself:

(1) "Supposition" :-- For the sake of your rusty brain, the simple equivalnece of this word is "assumption".

In other words, the widespread rendering of "Yufi" as "Nufe (Nupe)" is an assumption.

(2) "But" :-- For the purpose of your clogged brain, this word is a conjuction which shows a contrast between the Nufe (Nupe) assumption, and the Ufe (Ife) reading.

(3) The Ife reading is said clearly by the text, in black and white, to be "a more faithful reading" in contrast to "Nupe" which is based on a mere assumption. Note that the word "faithful" here signify "accurate" unlike "assumption".

(4) In addition to being "accurate", the Ife rendering of "Yufi" is said to match the "geography" as described by Ibn Battûta.

(5) In addition to being "accurate" and matching in "geography", the "Ife" rendering of "Yufi" is also said to match "the political and economic realities of that time" as described by Ibn Battûta.


This is how to catch self-imposed fools like gregyboy --- that is, by breaking it down to their clogged brain kindergaten level such that there is no where else for them to take cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itPcIS2q3sE

Entering a Train In This Part Of Nigeria for The First Time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m516h4nqvU

TAO11:


I insult you because you are willfully dvmb. You are simply too dvmb to be alive, as you deny what is blatantly obvious before your eyes.

You simply can't believe your eyes and your mind that your newly found slavemaster land (Nupe) was debunked, while your ancestral slavemaster land (Ife) was upheld.

The text clearly reads, Yufi "is normally taken to mean Nufe (Nupe) on the supposition of a mislection of Arabic n as y. But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."

Now to spoonfeed your kindergerten brain as you obviously can't read for yourself:

(1) "Supposition" :-- For the sake of your rusty brain, the simple equivalnece of this word is "assumption".

In other words, the widespread rendering of "Yufi" as "Nufe (Nupe)" is an assumption.

(2) "But" :-- For the purpose of your clogged brain, this word is a conjuction which shows a contrast between the Nupe (Nupe) assumption, and the Ufe (Ife) reading.

(3) The Ife reading is said clearly by the text, in black and white, to be "a more faithful reading" in contrast to "Nupe" which is based on a mere assumption. Note that the word "faithful" here signify "accurate" unlike "assumption".

(4) In addition to being "accurate", the Ife rendering of "Yufi" is said to match the "geography" as described by Ibn Battûta.

(5) In addition to being "accurate" and matching in "geography", the "Ife" rendering of "Yufi" is also said to match "the political and economic realities of that time" as described by Ibn Battûta.


This is how to catch self-imposed fools like gregyboy --- that is, by breaking it down to their clogged brain kindergaten level such that there is no where else for them to take cover.

You TAO11 are the worst of Yoruba liars.
Regarding Yufi, Ibn Battuta never said or even thought Ife was Yufi. It is Yorubas that likes to claim everything that called Yufi to be Ife. Ibn Battuta was refering to Zimbabwe and its gold when he talked about Yufi.
Please stop twisting the facts..

davidnazee:


You TAO11 are the worst of Yoruba liars.
Regarding Yufi, Ibn Battuta never said or even thought Ife was Yufi. It is Yorubas that likes to claim everything that called Yufi to be Ife. Ibn Battuta was refering to Zimbabwe and its gold when he talked about Yufi.
Please stop twisting the facts..

It is hard to understand why the Yoruba just lie and lie and lie...non stop. But it is a trait of their personality which everybody must be aware of.
Anyway, on an other topic, here is a cool video about China in 1935:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuetuYD-3Vg

samuk:


The meaning you gave was for the name Odu-to-du-wa not Oduduwa. Go back to your post.

Without the to, your Oduduwa will literally mean powercontestglory. Does this make sense to anyone

Like every answer you Yoruba give to simple questions, you go all over the place to gather pieces of information to formulate your answers.

You just can't give a simple answer to a simple question.

Lol @"powercontestglory"

davidnazee:


You TAO11 are the worst of Yoruba liars.
Regarding Yufi, Ibn Battuta never said or even thought Ife was Yufi. It is Yorubas that likes to claim everything that called Yufi to be Ife. Ibn Battuta was refering to Zimbabwe and its gold when he talked about Yufi.
Please stop twisting the facts..

Half education they say is worst than none!

You're an olodo who attains education only up to J.S.S. 3 level, and then proclaim himself as equal to university graduates.

I have read the whole paper (not just its first few pages) and I have cited it repeatedly.

Go to page 160 of the same paper where he summarised the findings, and then return here to apologize.

Learn to read what you will be replying to. But I can understand your frustration tho.

In case you're just too shy to return here: For the sake of sane observers, it reads:

Yufi, mentioned in the fourteenth century by ibn Battu ta in both south-eastern and western Africa, represented two important kingdoms which he imagined were one and the same, owing to his contracted vision of the geography of black Africa. The sourth-eastern face of Yufi was Zimbabwe with its gold (connecting with Kilwa and the Indian Ocean trade). There has been more discussion of Yufi's western face which was in contact with Mali and located by ibn Battuta towards the lower Nigeanyways for the sake of the public."


The paper then proceeds to identify this much discussed West African Yufi as Ife.

Refer to the schooling I gave gregyboy above if you also need to be spoonfeed to see Ife as this paper's identification of Ife.

TAO11:


Half education they say is worst than none!

You're an Olodo, one who attains education to J.S.S. 3 and then proclaim himself as equal to university graduates.

I have read the whole paper (not just its firat few pages) and I have cited it repeatedly.

Go to page 160 of the same paper where he summarised the findings, and then return here to apologize.

Learn to read what you will be replying to. But I can understand your frustration tho.

Like I said earlier, You are a liar and only accept what you think supports your arguement.
Yufi is not Ife.. Its only you yorubas that claim it to be Ife. Scholars have already agreed that it is not Ife.
Because you are foolish you failed to realize that the paper you are refering to says that there are supposedly two Yufi (one that is real and located in ancient Zimbabwe empire and one that is mythical and assumed to be Ife.) Nobody accepts myths as reality because its always false.

davidnazee:


Like I said earlier, You are a liar and only accept what you think supports your arguement.
Yufi is not Ife.. Its only you yorubas that claim it to be Ife. Scholars have already agreed that it is not Ife.
Because you are foolish you failed to realize that the paper you are refering to says that there are supposedly two Yufi (one that is real and located in ancient Zimbabwe empire and one that is mythical and assumed to be Ife.) Nobody accepts myths as reality because its always false.

Good job bro.
The yar.iba dwells in myths because he has no actual history.
It seems the Nile passes through Yufi someone tell me: does the Nile pass through ife ?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24328593?seq=1

ghostwon:


Good job bro.
The yar.iba dwells in myths because he has no actual history.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24328593?seq=1

Thanks bro.. These Yorubas are irritating..

davidnazee:


Thanks bro.. These Yorubas are irritating..

I know.