Gregyboy, you are not the right person to tell anybody anything "bluntly". But since you insist on telling things bluntly to your brother.
Let me tell you things bluntly: you are not very smart and many times what you say are an embarrassment to Edo.

Although you are right when you say there was never an oduduwa nor an oranmiyan, there was also never an ogiso.

You need to consult with others like Samuk and Davidnazee before some of your comments. They are smarter than you and on the same team as you !
That is me saying things bluntly.

Yea there was never ogiso, i just figured that out not too long, it was always oba from the start

But i believe ekaladeran lived and died at ughoton tho he didnt have any history with ife as it was assumed......


Ekaladeran existed tho he found ughoton and rituals are still be conducted at ughoton till date

There was never ogiso i believed that too

Ile binu was given by the itsekiri which Portuguese converted to benin

There was no oranmiyan, Areafada is a smart guy, but I don't know why he keeps on believing in the existence of oranmiyan or oduduwa.

I dont believe there was oromiyan am replying a guy who said oromiyan existed

Your are been hyperactive right now

Gregyboy, you need to contrôle yourself.
Obaseki is originally an Anioma family.
Closed.

Nope

Obseki ancestors left benin to rule the anioma people obaseki who was not heir to the throne left to his ancestoral land benin to seek for a better life......


So Obaseki is benin

Or lets say benin-anioma like akure benin chiefs

If he wasnt benin the oba wouldn't give him a royal title

gregyboy:



Yea there was never ogiso, i just figured that out not too long, it was always oba from the start

But i believe ekaladeran lived and died at ughoton tho he didnt have any history with ife as it was assumed......


Ekaladeran existed tho he found ughoton and rituals are still be conducted at ughoton till date

There was never ogiso i believed that too

Ile binu was given by the itsekiri which Portuguese converted to benin

See you driving forth and back. Now there was Ekaladeran. But yesterday and the day before he didn't exist. Why is it that you cannot be consistent and assertive for once? Now, you have thrown another bombshell: There was never Ogiso. it had always been Oba right from the beginning.

Believe me, if you keep on like this, no sane person will take you serious. In fact, I have stopped reading most of your comments (particular those that relate to Benin/Ife and even Benin itself).

Why don't just take your time compile your facts make it whole and come back to tell us how it is this and not that. Presenting a work that is badly researched, badly compiled and awfully done will not win you a medal. I'm sure tomorrow (This I have said before) you have the tendency of coming back and telling us your findings have shown all you present today to be hearsays. Be consistent. If you want to lie, table a complete, plausible, constant and defendable lies. Not the kind that changes colour like a chameleon.

babtoundey:


See you driving forth and back. Now there was Ekaladeran. But yesterday and the day before he didn't exist. Why is that you cannot be consistent and assertive for once?. Now, you're,be thrown another bombshell: There was never Ogiso. it had always been Oba right from the beginning.

Believe me, if you keep on like this, no sane person wl take you serious. In fact, I have stopped reading most of your comments (particular those that relate to Benin/Ife and even Benin itself).

Why don't just take your time compile your facts make it whole and come back to tell us how it has is this and not that. Presenting a work that is badly researched, badly compiled and awfully done will not win you a medal. I'm am sure tomorrow (This I have said before) you have the tendency of coming back and telling us your findings have shown all you present today to be hearsays. Be consistent. If you want to lie, table a complete, plausible, constant and defendable lies. Not the kind that changes colour like a chameleon.

I don't take the clown serious any longer. Reading should be his priority right now, not instigating a debate with a poorly researched 'evidence' which in turn makes people wonder if Benin is an intellectually barren land.

His yeye attempt at Benin/Ife debate so far has not done good but a great disservice to the kingdom of Benin. He is just too dull, imbecillic and ego driven to see that.

babtoundey:


See you driving forth and back. Now there was Ekaladeran. But yesterday and the day before he didn't exist. Why is it that you cannot be consistent and assertive for once? Now, you have thrown another bombshell: There was never Ogiso. it had always been Oba right from the beginning.

Believe me, if you keep on like this, no sane person will take you serious. In fact, I have stopped reading most of your comments (particular those that relate to Benin/Ife and even Benin itself).

Why don't just take your time compile your facts make it whole and come back to tell us how it is this and not that. Presenting a work that is badly researched, badly compiled and awfully done will not win you a medal. I'm sure tomorrow (This I have said before) you have the tendency of coming back and telling us your findings have shown all you present today to be hearsays. Be consistent. If you want to lie, table a complete, plausible, constant and defendable lies. Not the kind that changes colour like a chameleon.

The truth is am not far from the truth i never intended to create any of this thread because my research are still on going but you yorubas kept pushing me to, i have really not created an official thread for this benin and ife relationship they are more info i reserved for the official thread............ Am giving this unofficial thread for the yorubas to have room to debate my ascertion

It logical and laughable but ogiso never existed it was made to support the myth

Skygod kings..... (myth alert alert)


And again i never said ekaladeran didnt exist all i said was ekaladeran - Oduduwa never existed what existed was ekaladeran who died in ughoton village in benin


Benin had always had the oba title from creation
There was never ogiso

gomojam:
I don't take the clown serious any longer. Reading should be his priority right now, not instigating a debate with a poorly researched 'evidence' which in turn makes people wonder if Benin is an intellectually barren land.

His yeye attempt at Benin/Ife debate so far has not done good but a great disservice to the kingdom of Benin. He is just too dull, imbecillic and ego driven to see that.

TAO11 had gone oblivion for research you should
Do thesame
TAO11 is a lady forgodsake you yoruba guys should be ashamed letting a female do all the work, when she gets back you all males will start wetingon her findings

Lazy tribe thats why benin conquered you all

gregyboy:



The truth is am not far from the truth i never intended to create any of this thread because my research are still on going but you yorubas kept pushing me to, i have really not created an official thread for this benin and ife relationship they are more info i reserved for the official thread............ Am giving this unofficial thread for the yorubas to have room to debate my ascertion

It logical and laughable but ogiso never existed it was made to support the myth

Skygod kings..... (myth alert alert)


And again i never said ekaladeran didnt exist all i said was ekaladeran - Oduduwa never existed what existed was ekaladeran who died in ughoton village in benin


Benin had always had the oba title from creation
There was never ogiso

Who is pushing to create thread for your groundless and unverifiable claims? Yorubas or your determination to refute, rubbish and efface every facts that establishes Benin Ife onnection, and express your dissatisfaction on a subject that identify you and link you with people you don't like?

You may get to walk and do concrete research because I am tired of you originating a claim one day and countering it the next day.

babtoundey:


Who is pushing to create thread for your groundless and unverifiable claims? Yorubas or your determination to refute, rubbish and efface every facts that establishes Benin Ife onnection, and express your dissatisfaction on a subject that identify you and link you with people you don't like?

You may get to walk and do concrete research because I am tired of you originating a claim one day and countering it the next day.

Is that all you can say....

I thought you were bringing proof benin-ife existed

I can show you prove of benin and other yorubas

gregyboy:



TAO11 had gone oblivion for research you should
Do thesame
TAO11 is a lady forgodsake you yoruba guys should be ashamed letting a female do all the work, when she gets back you all males will start wetingon her findings

Lazy tribe thats why benin conquered you all

Pained looney.

Our female is already dealing with you yet you want males to join in so that you can then accuse of bullying. No. She is more than capable to hold it against you all.

I will take you serious whenever you are able to engage her in intellectual debate, with facts and good logics, not barrage of emotions and "them say them say" gibberish you are known for.

No wonder you wanna hook up and beg her to stop exposing your lies.

gomojam:
Pained looney.

Our female is already dealing with you yet you want males to join in so that you can then accuse of bullying. No. She is more than capable to hold it against you all.

I will take you serious whenever you are able to engage her in intellectual debate, with facts and good logics, not barrage of emotions and "them say them say" gibberish you are known for.

No wonder you wanna hook up and beg her to stop exposing your lies.

Hahaha! I think we should stop "maltreating" these Edos.

The unending denial & confusion they've been engulfed in recently is enough vindication of our cause.

They've denied almost every single aspect of their heritage, such as: "No connection with Ife"; "No Oduduwa"; "No Oranmiyan"; "Benin is from Birnin-Kebbi and also from Itsekiri".

Their latest denial & confusion is: "No Ogiso", and perhaps "No Ekaladerhan", and most likely "No Igodomigodo".

Their denial & confusion seem to be endless. Some of them have been caught committing the sacrilege of hurling insults at their Obas.

Their upcoming denials will perhaps be denial of the most obvious stuffs --- where one of them will come on Nairaland to type stuffs like: "Nairaland does not exist, it's all lies."

And the slow gregyboy will create a thread (using his "gregyboy" moniker) and entitle it: "gregyboy does not exist. I just found out".

I think we should allow them enjoy their confusion & denial while it last before they get back into the real-world.

However, we may choose to sometimes momentarilly interrupt their delusions whenever they appear to be going haywire.

Cheers!

samuk:


I initially avoided your compatriots massaging each others egos and calling Benin people names until one of them invited me in, otherwise I would have just ignored you guys and allow you to enjoy yourselves because we the Benin are not faced by many of you and what you have to say because like I said before, we know the Omoluabi Yorubas.

Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

Sewgon79:


Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

Bro! Stop joining forces with ignorant ones to repeat this Mecca nonsense. Oduduwa is not a Meccan.

There is no such account in Meccan writings or tradition.

Oduduwa has no meaning in Arabic.

Such account of Meccan origin of Oduduwa is alien to our history and unheard of prior to the late 19th century.

Stop parroting it. It's pseudohistory.

Learn history, not story.

Sewgon79:


Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

1. Nothing concerns oduduwa with mecca.
2. I'm still asking people who like talking about Lamurudu to explain how this person fits into Meeca history
3. Oduduwa had many sons not just Okanbi... Infact I doubt there is any Okanbi, because the only time you hear this name is in reference to him as the only son of oduduwa when we know that oduduwa had many sons
The whole Kisra - Lamurudu - Oduduwa - Okanbi genealogy is just nonsense in my opinion

TAO11:


Bro! Stop joining forces with ignorant ones to repeat this Mecca nonsense. Oduduwa is not a Meccan.

There is no such account in Meccan writings or tradition.

Oduduwa has no meaning in Arabic.

Such account of Meccan origin of Oduduwa is alien to our history and unheard of prior to the late 19th century.

Stop parroting it. It's pseudohistory.

Learn history, not story.

Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

macof:


1. Nothing concerns oduduwa with mecca.
2. I'm still asking people who like talking about Lamurudu to explain how this person fits into Meeca history
3. Oduduwa had many sons not just Okanbi... Infact I doubt there is any Okanbi, because the only time you hear this name is in reference to him as the only son of oduduwa when we know that oduduwa had many sons
The whole Kisra - Lamurudu - Oduduwa - Okanbi genealogy is just nonsense in my opinion

Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

TAO11:


Bro! Stop joining forces with ignorant ones to repeat this Mecca nonsense. Oduduwa is not a Meccan.

There is no such account in Meccan writings or tradition.

Oduduwa has no meaning in Arabic.

Such account of Meccan origin of Oduduwa is alien to our history and unheard of prior to the late 19th century.

Stop parroting it. It's pseudohistory.

Learn history, not story.

Even as a born Muslim while I was studying Arabic when I was young. There was a story of a man called Lamurudun, who is idol worshiper and IFA ORACLE that was consult to help use OPELE to search for where Prophet Muhammad was hiding when the Koraish tribe were pursuing him into the mountain.

According to description, he is lame, he can't work and he is aborigènes, which means he is not an Arab. Also describes him as a black man.

So there have always been correlate stories that the real aborigines of mecca are blacks before some run away and other were taken as a slave by Arabs.

Sewgon79:


Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

Smh.
For you to tell me to do my research and study well

What do you study /studied? What's your profession? What research have you conducted? What institute did you submit your research work to /is affiliated with your research?

macof:


Smh.
For you to tell me to do my research and study well

What do you study /studied? What's your profession? What research have you conducted? What institute did you submit your research work to /is affiliated with your research?

I am very sorry for the tone of my language. What I meant is that maybe you should do more finding so as to clarify. I hope you didn't find it insultive cuz I am just trying to clarify things I read about Yoruba.

Sorry for my early expression.

Sewgon79:


Even as a born Muslim while I was studying Arabic when I was young. There was a story of a man called Lamurudun, who is idol worshiper and IFA ORACLE that was consult to help use OPELE to search for where Prophet Muhammad was hiding when the Koraish tribe were pursuing him into the mountain.

According to description, he is lame, he can't work and he is aborigènes, which means he is not an Arab. Also describes him as a black man.

So there have always been correlate stories that the real aborigines of mecca are blacks before some run away and other were taken as a slave by Arabs.

Name me ANY Islamic source --- be it the Qur'anic documents, the Hadith literature, or the Sirâh & Maghâzi literature --- which mentions the so-called "Lamurudun" let alone relate "him" to any "Oduduwa", or Africa, or Yorubaland.

I'll be waiting patiently.

Sewgon79:


Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

Don't worry about disappointing me or not. That's okay.

(1) There is no such thing as some tribes living in Mecca before the Arabs.

(2) There is no such thing as Mecca being invaded.

Even from your Muslim sources (as you claim to have some of such knowledge), the story of Mecca began as an unoccupied vast desert that served merely as a caravan trade route.

Its first human habitation is said to have began with mommy Hajar & baby Ismail and subsequent slow settling of caravan traders who all became the stock that formed the Meccans' first ancestors of old.
For reference, you may see:
M. H. Haykal's "The Life of Muhammad" (حياة محمد) --- I have a hard copy of it back in Nigeria. I will cite you quotes and page numbers as soon as I can retrieve my soft copy.

(3) Lol. The problem with the story of associating this noble "Bilikis" (of Ijebu-Ode) with the Queen of Sheba is that archaeological evidence puts them at thousands of years apart.

They can only possibly have met if at least one of them is a time traveller.

Also, Wikipedia is not where historians turn to for historical sources. I have personally contributed to Wikipedia more than once.

(4) Hmmm! Interesting similarity between Turkish (ìṣ) and Yoruba (ìṣe). Yorubas must indeed have been aboriginal to Turkey. /s Lol.

Wait a minute, I found another one:

English (Me) and Yoruba (Èmi) ... wait, another one ... English (Our) and Yoruba (Àwa). Wow!! This certainly means that we Yorubas are originally Anglo-Saxons (and perhaps original Americans) too. /s Lol.

The late Professor Afolabi Olabode once went to teach the Yoruba language in Japan many years ago.

Some of the findings he returned with was that there are many Japanese words which align in both sound and meaning with Yoruba words.

Hmmm! I guess we found another one. We Yorubas are the aboriginals of Japan too. /s Lol.

Sewgon79:


Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

The sound "du" is both spiritual and phenomenal. It can be combined in many ways to express ideas. It is never a stand alone, always in a combination. If it occurs alone anywhere it is informal, meaning other parts combined with it were stripped off to give softness in its expression.

Why is it spiritual?
There are different types of clay. A particular type that existed in primordial beginning is the "du" type. It is hard!

To soften and make it pliable for construct it was put into "m", an equivalently spiritual primordial water with flow (rhythym).

The "Dum" product thus became the first man, according to creation story.
This man history called Adam. In Yoruba spirituality he is called Odumila. His cult is called Adimu or Adamu.


Why is it phenomenal?
The color of that primordial "du" was the original black. Its essence is parceled into human consciousness so that we are constantly in awe of its organic state and purity. Humans will always yearn to return to it....to reunite and concile with that beginning.

A desire for reunification to the "du" is given context in various aspects of doctrines for social evolution. As we progress forward in time and newness, we remain attached to "du" and wish that our evolution will land us back to that pure organic beginning.


"Eve" is a principal identity. From it derivatives were created - Life, Love, Live, and so on.

Eve is actually Efe! Eve is also the polar opposite of Dum. While "dum" consist of clay and water, "eve" consist of fire and air. Each exist as a separate creation. When the two energies combine a new creation is produced and we call this emerging product "Life".

So the ground zero, the centerpiece where energies of creation combine to produce Life....we call Ile Ife!

Gelede, the Yoruba masquerade celebrates the essence of feminine energy. One of the masquerades of Gelede is the Efe.

------------------------------------------------------
Break
-------------------------------------------------------

Ile Ife has an indigeneous people and a migrant people.

The indigeneous people possessed the "gn" consciousness. The migrants possessed the "du" consciousness.

The natural colors of the indigeneous was red (crimson). For the migrants it was blue (indigo).

Ile Ife was not an indigeneous name, the migrants brought that name with them when they settled into the Niger-Benue valley. Old Ile Ife was on the bank of River Niger. The new Ife was a relocation.

Ogun was an indigeneous deity and the principal god and protector of Niger-Benue civilization.

The rulers of the Niger Benue civilizations and the migrants from Afro Asia began a new partnership of conquest and dynastic ruling in Old Ife.

The indigeneous deity worship was a synergy with the belief system of the migrants, who were mostly driven out of Afro Asia due to political and religious tumults. Therefore a hybrid worship and integration of cult practices evolved.


Amongst the indigenous of Niger-Benue you will see words like "ogun", "igunu", "ginua", "ogene", "ogoni", "gona", "gana", and so on. They all derived from Ogun the ancestral deity of Old Ife, and the protector of iron mining, a primary mineral resource in the valley.

The Niger-Benue valley has red clay, opposed to "du" of the migrants. Their red clay is the "gn" consciousness.

This consciousness gave formation to the prominence of color red in their social affairs. The kings of "gn" consciousness wear red hats or crowns. They and their priests wear red robes in official engagements.


I will end this here. Some other time I will discuss Oduduwa and Mecca.

Sewgon79:


I am very sorry for the tone of my language. What I meant is that maybe you should do more finding so as to clarify. I hope you didn't find it insultive cuz I am just trying to clarify things I read about Yoruba.

Sorry for my early expression.

and what makes you think I've not looked into the Lamurudu and mecca claims? Who hasn't heard that? Even schools were teaching that for decades before more competent historians dedunked it
The question of study should be directed to you, because you rely too much on story not history
I can give you a list of historians whose books you can buy if you are really interested in Yoruba history

PS. No offence taken at all

TAO11:


Bro! Stop joining forces with ignorant ones to repeat this Mecca nonsense. Oduduwa is not a Meccan.

There is no such account in Meccan writings or tradition.

Oduduwa has no meaning in Arabic.

Such account of Meccan origin of Oduduwa is alien to our history and unheard of prior to the late 19th century.

Stop parroting it. It's pseudohistory.

Learn history, not story.

See who is advicing fhe other to desist from myth


TAO11 is now fighting is kinsmen



Make una go find who Oduduwa be first before any argument with benin

macof:


1. Nothing concerns oduduwa with mecca.
2. I'm still asking people who like talking about Lamurudu to explain how this person fits into Meeca history
3. Oduduwa had many sons not just Okanbi... Infact I doubt there is any Okanbi, because the only time you hear this name is in reference to him as the only son of oduduwa when we know that oduduwa had many sons
The whole Kisra - Lamurudu - Oduduwa - Okanbi genealogy is just nonsense in my opinion

Interesting Oduduwa is a myth he never existed all yorubas have thier own version of Oduduwa
If indeed Oduduwa really existed and he was the father to the entire yoruba people,
i dont know why a part of his children will identify thier father as a different person from what his other brothers identify him to be

Sewgon79:


Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

Yea, i agree TAO11 is always full of lies Oduduwa his from mecca all evidence acknowledged this fact even the benin history

gregyboy:

See who is advicing fhe other to desist from myth

TAO11 is now fighting is kinsmen

Make una go find who Oduduwa be first before any argument with benin

gregyboy:

Yea, i agree TAO11 is always full of lies Oduduwa his from mecca all evidence acknowledged this fact even the benin history

Hurray!!!!!

Finally, dvmb gregyboy cites a scholar to support his views.

macof:
and what makes you think I've not looked into the Lamurudu and mecca claims? Who hasn't heard that? Even schools were teaching that for decades before more competent historians dedunked it
The question of study should be directed to you, because you rely too much on story not history
I can give you a list of historians whose books you can buy if you are really interested in Yoruba history

PS. No offence taken at all

It is common knowledge that Yoruba had a library of written historical accounts prior to our entry into English colonization and the language of missionaries.

There were written records in Portuguese that documented trade and politics between Yoruba and Portugal, Spain and even Dutch.

Religion was never part of it.

Our history got fvckd up when English missionaries started teaching Bible. Anything contrary to Jesus and Christianity was deleted or suppressed and our customary belief system turned upside down on itself.

So you cannot denounce Yoruba's claim to Mecca when in fact Christian missionaries are on record denouncing our indigeneous holy worship and practices as "heathenism". The same missionaries that said Yoruba is not from Mecca are also the ones that said ESU is devil.


Check this out, this was before missionaries. Where are the Yoruba records of trade and political exchange with Portugal? The second is from a work archived in Johns Hopkins. It is an indictment on Yoruba historians laxity for scholarship.

Our historians are not interested in originality, they only go after works already pioneered and archived as history by English white men...much of which is counter to oral history told by custodians of the records.

English is the mainstream of our knowledge and societal living styles, hence it is the authority which now speaks for our history also. If any author writes of the Meccan story he is immediately attacked.

Meanwhile we dont have historians taking initiatives to explore the history of Yoruba trade with Portugal in 1700s or 1600s because it is not in mainstream language and missionaries took no interest in it. They simply collected them and dumped in their repositories back in England and locked up.

We do not have honest and objective historians. What we have are mouthpieces for English religion and authority on Yoruba beginnings.



https://muse.jhu.edu/article/593137/summary

TAO11:




Hurray!!!!!

Finally, dvmb gregyboy cites a scholar to support his views.

MetaPhysical:


It is common knowledge that Yoruba had a library of written historical accounts prior to our entry into English colonization and the language of missionaries.

There were written records in Portuguese that documented trade and politics between Yoruba and Portugal, Spain and even Dutch.

Religion was never part of it.

Our history got fvckd up when English missionaries started teaching Bible. Anything contrary to Jesus and Christianity was deleted or suppressed and our customary belief system turned upside down on itself.

So you cannot denounce Yoruba's claim to Mecca when in fact Christian missionaries are on record denouncing our indigeneous holy worship and practices as "heathenism". The same missionaries that said Yoruba is not from Mecca are also the ones that said ESU is devil.


Check this out, this was before missionaries. Where are the Yoruba records of trade and political exchange with Portugal? The second is from a work archived in Johns Hopkins. It is an indictment on Yoruba historians laxity for scholarship.

Our historians are not interested in originality, they only go after works already pioneered and archived as history by English white men...much of which is counter to oral history told by custodians of the records.

English is the mainstream of our knowledge and societal living styles, hence it is the authority which now speaks for our history also. If any author writes of the Meccan story he is immediately attacked.

Meanwhile we dont have historians taking initiatives to explore the history of Yoruba trade with Portugal in 1700s or 1600s because it is not in mainstream language and missionaries took no interest in it. They simply collected them and dumped in their repositories back in England and locked up.

We do not have honest and objective historians. What we have are mouthpieces for English religion and authority on Yoruba beginnings.



https://muse.jhu.edu/article/593137/summary

Lol.. Mecca claim has nothing to do with religion yet all the sources of mecca claim were Muslims

OK. What is the Yoruba name for mecca?
Don't even get me started on the historical inconsistency of the story.
Lets say OK Yoruba have no traditional history and we must allow foreign influences dictate our history. What about the history of mecca? Is the claim consistent with what we know of mecca?

There's nothing like originality in history. Historians aren't creative inventors. It seems you can never understand this

That is why you claim fantasies because you invent while
Historians deal with already available sources
Why not let historians do their job, they already face a lot of challenges from the huge work of debunking old false narratives to finding new sources.

The issue you raised about records of the Dutch and Portuguese is not a bad one at all. But that's more work, finding records and then learning the language to study it and then investigate it's authenticity. Some are already into that but it's not mainstream due to some obvious factors

Funny how those educated by the English you claim are responsible for attacking the mecca claim are the ones who made it popular by putting it in their books.
Funny how all the recaptives/missionaries who dived into Yoruba historiography were connecting Yoruba to mecca, Egypt, Israel not England
What interest did the missionaries have for history in Ifa? How many of those who said oduduwa came from mecca asked the Obadio (oduduwa custodian) first?
How many were initiated?
Answer is none! So stop making silly excuses
If you want to propagate the idea of mecca which is already dying (thank goodness) you need to provide evidence for it... Good luck though because after over 150 years of this claim we haven't seen any evidence

macof:


Lol.. Mecca claim has nothing to do with religion yet all the sources of mecca claim were Muslims

OK. What is the Yoruba name for mecca?
Don't even get me started on the historical inconsistency of the story.
Lets say OK Yoruba have no traditional history and we must allow foreign influences dictate our history. What about the history of mecca? Is the claim consistent with what we know of mecca?

There's nothing like originality in history. Historians aren't creative inventors. It seems you can never understand this

That is why you claim fantasies because you invent while
Historians deal with already available sources
Why not let historians do their job, they already face a lot of challenges from the huge work of debunking old false narratives to finding new sources.

The issue you raised about records of the Dutch and Portuguese is not a bad one at all. But that's more work, finding records and then learning the language to study it and then investigate it's authenticity. Some are already into that but it's not mainstream due to some obvious factors

Funny how those educated by the English you claim are responsible for attacking the mecca claim are the ones who made it popular by putting it in their books.
Funny how all the recaptives/missionaries who dived into Yoruba historiography were connecting Yoruba to mecca, Egypt, Israel not England
What interest did the missionaries have for history in Ifa? How many of those who said oduduwa came from mecca asked the Obadio (oduduwa custodian) first?
How many were initiated?
Answer is none! So stop making silly excuses
If you want to propagate the idea of mecca which is already dying (thank goodness) you need to provide evidence for it... Good luck though because after over 150 years of this claim we haven't seen any evidence

Is there any quarter or historical fact in Ile Ife that says Awori was in Ife? None. So how did modern historians connected Awori with Ife?

They followed footsteps.

If they were looking for evidence of Awori in Ife they would never find it.

The footsteps they followed is oral history, cults, names.

History is not absolute! In fact history is nothing more than a dashboard. If you look in dashboard in your car and it says you are running low on fuel, then you trust it to be accurate and stop for fuel. You dont go grab a stick to dip in your tank to see if fuel is low. If dashboard says your engine oil is low...you trust it. The guages and dials have been calibrated to show certain things. What happens when the calibration fails....what do you do to operate the car? You return to your native sense and follow with practical checks. Simple!


Historians have conflicting stories of Yoruba history. When their calibration fails they default to anthropology. But anthropology itself is an approximation, not a precise and incontrovertible fact. How does one explain carbon dating that says a jug is 1000yrs old? It is approximate based on a artificial calibration or standard.

So dashboards are just that....aids and tools, not absolute.

Therwfore we must not close the door to other valid and convincing inputs which native sense offers.

MetaPhysical:


The sound "du" is both spiritual and phenomenal. It can be combined in many ways to express ideas. It is never a stand alone, always in a combination. If it occurs alone anywhere it is informal, meaning other parts combined with it were stripped off to give softness in its expression.

Why is it spiritual?
There are different types of clay. A particular type that existed in primordial beginning is the "du" type. It is hard!

To soften and make it pliable for construct it was put into "m", an equivalently spiritual primordial water with flow (rhythym).

The "Dum" product thus became the first man, according to creation story.
This man history called Adam. In Yoruba spirituality he is called Odumila. His cult is called Adimu or Adamu.


Why is it phenomenal?
The color of that primordial "du" was the original black. Its essence is parceled into human consciousness so that we are constantly in awe of its organic state and purity. Humans will always yearn to return to it....to reunite and concile with that beginning.

A desire for reunification to the "du" is given context in various aspects of doctrines for social evolution. As we progress forward in time and newness, we remain attached to "du" and wish that our evolution will land us back to that pure organic beginning.


"Eve" is a principal identity. From it derivatives were created - Life, Love, Live, and so on.

Eve is actually Efe! Eve is also the polar opposite of Dum. While "dum" consist of clay and water, "eve" consist of fire and air. Each exist as a separate creation. When the two energies combine a new creation is produced and we call this emerging product "Life".

So the ground zero, the centerpiece where energies of creation combine to produce Life....we call Ile Ife!

Gelede, the Yoruba masquerade celebrates the essence of feminine energy. One of the masquerades of Gelede is the Efe.

------------------------------------------------------
Break
-------------------------------------------------------

Ile Ife has an indigeneous people and a migrant people.

The indigeneous people possessed the "gn" consciousness. The migrants possessed the "du" consciousness.

The natural colors of the indigeneous was red (crimson). For the migrants it was blue (indigo).

Ile Ife was not an indigeneous name, the migrants brought that name with them when they settled into the Niger-Benue valley. Old Ile Ife was on the bank of River Niger. The new Ife was a relocation.

Ogun was an indigeneous deity and the principal god and protector of Niger-Benue civilization.

The rulers of the Niger Benue civilizations and the migrants from Afro Asia began a new partnership of conquest and dynastic ruling in Old Ife.

The indigeneous deity worship was a synergy with the belief system of the migrants, who were mostly driven out of Afro Asia due to political and religious tumults. Therefore a hybrid worship and integration of cult practices evolved.


Amongst the indigenous of Niger-Benue you will see words like "ogun", "igunu", "ginua", "ogene", "ogoni", "gona", "gana", and so on. They all derived from Ogun the ancestral deity of Old Ife, and the protector of iron mining, a primary mineral resource in the valley.

The Niger-Benue valley has red clay, opposed to "du" of the migrants. Their red clay is the "gn" consciousness.

This consciousness gave formation to the prominence of color red in their social affairs. The kings of "gn" consciousness wear red hats or crowns. They and their priests wear red robes in official engagements.


I will end this here. Some other time I will discuss Oduduwa and Mecca.

Thanks for this piece of work. It is very broad