TAO11:


(1) Made-up because it says what you dislike. Even your favorite Olfert Dapper confirms it. Lol.

Independent attestentations are made up, even as this claim is unsubstantiated. Isn't God wonderful?

(2) I'm no beginning to think Latin was the indigenous language of all European cultures for them to all have adopted it at some point.

Even now I'm beginning to think that piding-English is originally part of the ancient indigenous culture of Southern Nigeria. lnteresting!

(3) You're right. It's not easy. If not, we would have been typing these comments in a foreign language like English.

Oh wait, are we typing in English already?

(4) Going by the official listing of Benin Kings, it's a certain Oba Ohuan

(5) Was there a civil unrest when all Europe adopted Latin as their language?

Was their a civil unrest when Allada and Whydah preferred and esteem the Yoruba languave over their own native tongue, as documented in the same report?

(6) Except that it is known, but it is usually given a public spin.

Think about the circumstance surrounding the name "Eweka" of Eweka the first.

(7) Histories of Benin with focus on all languages spoken

im the Kingdom?

If yes, bring them on.

(8 ) Yes, except that a 380-years-later assumption of mistake can not possibly override a 1640 eyewitness report just like that.

(9) No! It is true for other reasons as have been explained again and again.

(10) This is the very thing you're out to prove. So prove it.

Guy
..There is no clear evidence as to it... Even BBC didn't deem it fit for it to be there

It's not easy to learn a language that u are not brought up in..

Majority of our population were brought up in English and their indigenous languages..

How did the language become the lingua franca?
Did the Yoruba set up a class for all of them to be taught the language..

Since there are reports on the language being the lingua franca there, there should have been complimentary report on the decline of the language in the palace...

U know that its Oba ohuan ..why was it not included in the report? were dey scared

TAO11:


Notice that I didn't say that the populace of the Benin Kingdom are Yoruba people.

No, they aren't. They are Edos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, the point I'm making is that the Kingdom of Benin (and its palace) adopted the Yoruba langugae as its lingua-franca.

Now, did I just wake up to say this without any evidence? Of course no.

There are eye witness European documentions around the 1600s which attest to this fact.

This is different from the claim (you noted that you can wake to begin making someday) that the "lingua franca of the Oyo Empire was Hausa."

However, be rest assured that there are no historical documentations to support those statements you've promised to make in case you eventually wake up to begin making them just as promised.

Just hear yourself!

How is it possible that the oba of Benin and his palace administrators adopted yoruba language and relegated their mother tongue?

Does it make sense?


If you believe this, then you must also believe that Oduduwa climbed down from the sky using a chain.

You gonna believe it because that belief has been passed down orally and even documented from generation to generation without evidence nor proof.


To whom brain is given, sense is expected.

Etinosa1234:


(1)Guy ...There is no clear evidence as to it... Even BBC didn't deem it fit for it to be there

(2) It's not easy to learn a language that u are not brought up in..

(3) Majority of our population were brought up in English and their indigenous languages..

(4) How did the language become the lingua franca? Did the Yoruba set up a class for all of them to be taught the language..

(5) Since there are reports on the language being the lingua franca there, there should have been complimentary report on the decline of the language in the palace...

(6) U know that its Oba ohuan ..why was it not included in the report? were dey scared

(1) This is like saying there is no evidence that Benin Kingdom had any historical event at all in the 1600s, etc.

This is because the only eyewitness evidence we have of past historical events in Benin was from the reports of these visitors.

We didn't write those accounts ourselves. Lol.

So, you have a lot of things to illogicaly reject, and by the time you are done with your illogical rejection, historical Benin Kingdom will be non-existent, at least in your mind.

(2) Probably that's why the visiting Europeans and the local Binis never communicated with each other since their first contact in the year c.1490. Lol.

(3) What about our ancestors who were not "brought up" in these foreign languages, but yet learnt them to communicate during the early years of their first contacts with these foreign visitors?

May be they never communicated. Who knows!? Lol.

(4) How did Latin become the lingua-franca of all of Europe? Did the Latins set up a class to teach all Europeans Latin?

Again, think about "Eweka" from "Owo mi ka" -- the young lad's first words. Your answer may lie here. Don't ignore.

(5) The same report does not talk about the decline of Latin throughout Europe, hence Latin was never once the lingua-franca of Europe.

Moreover, if I'm writing today as an eyewitness of the prevalence of English as a lingua-franca in Nigeria, I can't possibly document an eyewiness account of the decline of same lingua-franca.

Such decline will perhaps happen only in the future, centuries from now. Any such report I give about decline is not an eyewitness report but a prophesy.

Hmmm! The kind of reasoning we see from you guys is so pathetic to say the least.

Yet you indicated somewhere that you're different from the normal Binis who "can't reason critically".

Sighs!

(6) "Scared" to include things that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual purpose of the report??

Again, the report was a note, by this church Father, to the higher authorities back in France -- explaining to them that "climate" and "language" is not even a barrier for settling in Benin for missionary purposes.

He said their climate is "good" unlike in other parts of the Guinea, and their lingu-franca "is easy".

How is the name of the then ruler supposed to be one of such essential factors to be included in his note to the church leaders?

So that the leaders back in France may pray over the ruler's name before coming?

sotall:


(1) Just hear yourself!

How is it possible that the oba of Benin and his palace administrators adopted yoruba language and relegated their mother tongue?

Does it make sense?

(2) If you believe this, then you must also believe that Oduduwa climbed down from the sky using a chain.

You gonna believe it because that belief has been passed down orally and even documented from generation to generation without evidence nor proof.

(3) To whom brain is given, sense is expected.

(1) How do different cultures throughout the world's history adopt a different language from theirs as a lingua-franca?

Can you explain to me the circumstances surrounding Eweka 1's name?

The answer to your question here may lie in this. Consider it carefully.

(2) Of course only a sane person will accept an eyewitness account in the year 1640, over an unsubstantiated contrary position by someone living more than 300 years later.

Also, only a sane person will understand that the claim by the Binis that Ogiso Igodo dived from heaven into Benin City round-about is no more than mythology.

Just like an account mentioned by Omo N'Oba N'Edo, Oba Erediauwa that the first Oba of Benin was given birth to by God Almighty himself as his last born son.

(3) From my replies above, it becomes clear that you obviously need this advice of yours.

lawani:
we speak English today because English was the lingua franca of the British empire. There is no empire in world history without a lingua franca and your edo language does not pass Benin city.

So the other part of edo speaks swahili

TAO11:


Emotional outbursts, after been exposed as a dummy, is all I see here.

Mumu, lol e pain her....


My words are like thorns on your skin

gregyboy:


[s]Mumu, lol e pain her....

My words are like thorns on your skin[/s]

Another emotional outburst after disgracing the gayboy as empty-headed.

sotall:



Just hear yourself!

How is it possible that the oba of Benin and his palace administrators adopted yoruba language and relegated their mother tongue?

Does it make sense?


If you believe this, then you must also believe that Oduduwa climbed down from the sky using a chain.


To whom brain is given, sense is expected.

And that is how you win an argument.

sotall:



Just hear yourself!

How is it possible that the oba of Benin and his palace administrators adopted yoruba language and relegated their mother tongue?

Does it make sense?


If you believe this, then you must also believe that Oduduwa climbed down from the sky using a chain.

You gonna believe it because that belief has been passed down orally and even documented from generation to generation without evidence nor proof.


To whom brain is given, sense is expected.

Leave the fool.......



The first screenshot explains the second screenshot.....

The lucumies were slaves in the benin palace, the lucumies in the oba palace spoke edo language the language of thier lords
According to the explanation in TAO11 screenshot it highlighted that lucumies was a distinct language an the lucumies language was spoken even around foreign areas they found themselves
The language lucumies was oyo dialect (no white man had been there), it was a lingua franca around edo territories Itsekiris, ondo and neighboring edo areas and not benin

TAO11:


Another emotional outburst after disgracing the gayboy as empty-headed.

She-male

TAO11:


(1) This is like saying there is no evidence that Benin Kingdom had any historical event at all in the 1600s, etc.

This is because the only eyewitness evidence we have of past historical events in Benin was from the reports of these visitors.

We didn't write those accounts ourselves. Lol.

So, you have a lot of things to illogicaly reject, and by the time you are done with your illogical rejection, historical Benin Kingdom will be non-existent, at least in your mind.

(2) Probably that's why the visiting Europeans and the local Binis never communicated with each other since their first contact in the year c.1490. Lol.

(3) What about our ancestors who were not "brought up" in these foreign languages, but yet learnt them to communicate during the early years of their first contacts with these foreign visitors?

May be they never communicated. Who knows!? Lol.

(4) How did Latin become the lingua-franca of all of Europe? Did the Latins set up a class to teach all Europeans Latin?

Again, think about "Eweka" from "Owo mi ka" -- the young lad's first words. Your answer may lie here. Don't ignore.

(5) The same report does not talk about the decline of Latin throughout Europe, hence Latin was never once the lingua-franca of Europe.

Moreover, if I'm writing today as an eyewitness of the prevalence of English as a lingua-franca in Nigeria, I can't possibly document an eyewiness account of the decline of same lingua-franca.

Such decline will perhaps happen only in the future, centuries from now. Any such report I give about decline is not an eyewitness report but a prophesy.

Hmmm! The kind of reasoning we see from you guys is so pathetic to say the least.

Yet you indicated somewhere that you're different from the normal Binis who "can't reason critically".

Sighs!

(6) "Scared" to include things that has absolutely nothing to do the actual purpose of the report??

Again, the report was a note, by this church Father, to the higher authorities back in France -- explaining to them that "climate" and "language" is not even a barrier for settling in Benin for missionary purposes.

He said their climate is "good" unlike in other parts of the Guinea, and their lingu-franca "is easy".

How is the particular name of the ruler supposed to be one of such essential factors to be included in his note to the church leaders?

So that the leaders back in France can pray over the ruler's name before coming?

Let's analyze the documents leading to your assertion.

From the documents you posted, did you read and understand that there are up to four variants of the word "lukumi" and each with different meanings depending on the region?


Now let's take a look at the second paragraph of the document you posted. Here the writer says "Lucumi doesn't appear to have been used of Yoruba speakers with one exception" . The exception is that a small Yoruba group calls itself " onukumi" which certainly looks like a variant of the word " lukumi" .

And then the writer concluded that paragraph by saying " It is conceivable that it represents a survival of a usage formally more widespread in west Africa ".

This means the word "lucumi" had many variants with different meanings and wasn't exclusive to the small Yoruba people who called themselves " Onukumi" (another variant).


In the third and fourth paragraph the writer layed emphasis on the meaning and usage of the different variants of the word.

It was used to refer to a place or region. (with reference to west Africa, no European has ever visited where the word was used to refer to a place).

He also mentioned that lucumi was used to refer to certain people and that is where the Benin kingdom came in.
Now the writer says " Lucumies were employed in the palace administration of the Benin kingdom " .


Now, where is the connection between the lucumies that were employed in the Oba's palace and the "Onukumi" (the Yoruba group)?

That wasn't mentioned at all. The discrepancies in the word and its corresponding meanings should have guided in your spurious assertion that Yoruba language was used in the palace administration of Benin kingdom.


If you read your supporting documents very well, you will see where the writer emphasized the word was widespread and popular at that time. The word even has a variant in the Americas.


In conclusion, I believe proper understanding of the text you uploaded is all you need.

The Benin kingdom had a variant of the word with a corresponding specific meaning while other groups in west Africa had theirs including the eastern Yoruba group who called themselves Onukumi.

The facts and statements in those documents is not enough for you and your revisionists to make such spurious assertions.

gregyboy:



Leave the fool.......

The first screenshot explains the second screenshot.....

The lucumies were slaves in the benin palace, and spoke they spoke edo the language of thier lords

According to the explanation in TAO11 screenshot it highlighted that lucumies was a distinct language around areas non indigenous areas lucumies were found and it was a lingua franca they used as communication in any area they found themselves

The language lucumies was oyo dialect (no white man had been there), it was a lingua franca around edo territories Itsekiris, ondo and neighboring edo areas and not benin

Finally, a Bini boy is advicing the Binis to trust these reports in good faith.

So now let me expose the latest deception here by the gayboy.

The same account you posted (your 1st screenshot) makes it clear that those so-called slaves are not necessarily people whose ethnicity is Yoruba, but rather people who are not Yorubas ethnically but have also themselves adopted the language of the Yorubas -- e.g., the Bariabs.

You have to learn to read your own screenshots before posting them to the public and getting yourself disgraced like this.

In the light of these, it then becomes clear that those slaves who themselves are not Yorubas ethnically -- but non-Yoruba speakers of the language -- are not the same people running the show of Benin Kingdom.

How could slaves possibly enslave the King, the Chiefs, and the whole Kingdom; and then imposing a different language.

No, a slave cannot possibly do that. The imposition of Yoruba language over Benin Kingdom (as the report -- which gregyboy suggests we must trust -- shows) is by noble freeborns who are Yorubas ethnically.

gregyboy:


She-male

gayboy = gregyboy

We get it already!

TAO11:


Finally, a Bini boy is advicing the Binis to trust these reports in good faith.

So now let me expose the latest deception here by the gayboy.

The same account you posted (your 1st screenshot) makes it clear that those so-called slaves are not necessarily people whose ethnicity is Yoruba, but rather people who are not Yorubas ethnically but have also themselves adopted the language of the Yorubas -- e.g., the Bariabs.

You have to learn to read your own screenshots before posting them to the public and getting yourself disgraced like this.

In the light of these, it then becomes clear that those slaves who themselves are not Yorubas ethnically -- but non-Yoruba speakers of the language -- are not the same people running the show of Benin Kingdom.

How could slaves possibly enslave the King, the Chiefs, and the whole Kingdom; and then imposing a different language.

No, a slave cannot possibly do that. The imposition of Yoruba language over Benin Kingdom (as the report -- which gregyboy suggests we must trust -- shows) is by noble freeborns who are Yorubas ethnically.

You left the most important message in the screenshot that talks about the lucumies that were employed in the Benin kingdom and started beating around the bush.

Just like he said the Lucumies were the king's slaves.

They work to serve the king. It even goes on to tell you why the king had to employ them to serve him . So that if they commit an offense, he wouldn't hesitate to punish them.

You wonder why they spoke foreign language? Because they are most likely part of the spoils of war.

Dont tell me you are pained because the document says some of those slaves maybe from Oyo (a yoruba land).

It's all history now. Cheer up.

Now the essence of this thread has been defeated.


The creator of the thread should bow out in shame

bright007:


Let's analyze the documents leading to your assertion.

From the documents you posted, did you read and understand that there are up to four variants of the word "lukumi" and each with different meanings depending on the region?


Now let's take a look at the second paragraph of the document you posted. Here the writer says "Lucumi doesn't appear to have been used of Yoruba speakers with one exception" . The exception is that a small Yoruba group calls itself " onukumi" which certainly looks like a variant of the word " lukumi" .

And then the writer concluded that paragraph by saying " It is conceivable that it represents a survival of a usage formally more widespread in west Africa ".

This means the word "lucumi" had many variants with different meanings and wasn't exclusive to the small Yoruba people who called themselves " Onukumi" (another variant).


In the third and fourth paragraph the writer layed emphasis on the meaning and usage of the different variants of the word.

It was used to refer to a place or region. (with reference to west Africa, no European has ever visited where the word was used to refer to a place).

He also mentioned that lucumi was used to refer to certain people and that is where the Benin kingdom came in.
Now the writer says " Lucumies were employed in the palace administration of the Benin kingdom " .


Now, where is the connection between the lucumies that were employed in the Oba's palace and the "Onukumi" (the Yoruba group)?

That wasn't mentioned at all. The discrepancies in the word and its corresponding meanings should have guided in your spurious assertion that Yoruba language was used in the palace administration of Benin kingdom.


If you read your supporting documents very well, you will see where the writer emphasized the word was widespread and popular at that time. The word even has a variant in the Americas.


In conclusion, I believe proper understanding of the text you uploaded is all you need.

The Benin kingdom had a variant of the word with a corresponding specific meaning while other groups in west Africa had theirs including the eastern Yoruba group who called themselves Onukumi.

The facts and statements in those documents is not enough for you and your revisionists to make such spurious assertions.

I think your motive shouldn't be to win an argument but ro learn.

Having said that, I shouldn't actually have replied this given that your reply shows you do not know certain basics yet.

But I consider it a moral duty to reply. And I can understand why you may be feeling the way you feel about this.

Lucumi, Lukumi, Olukumi, Onukumi, Alkomi, and endless variant spelling of it are in reference to the same people of a known region.

Your argument (which I think you're making here) is that each of these variant spellings relate to different ethnic group. This is is at best laughable.

It is like saying that the different variant spellings of Benin (such as Beny, etc.) by the Europeans --refer to different ethnic groups.

If you've ever read a book on early West African history, you would have come accross such variant spelling by Europeans of African names.

What I will advice is that first get that article and read through its pages first to ground yourself in the basics before replying.

But to say something specifically in reply to your comment:

(1) The 4th paragraph uses the words "Lucumi" and "Lucamee" interchangeably in reference to on and the same thing.

Again, this shows that the variants are simply spelling variants in reference to one and the same thing.

But more than that, the region of "Lucumi" (aka "Lucamee", etc.) was specifically delineated on the map of WestAfrica in that same paragraph.

It says Alladah and Whyday are to its southwest, and Benin Kingdom is to its southeast.

Grab your map of West Africa and show me where this is. Lol!

(2) The same page you're looking at says the the language of this nation often serve "as a lingua franca outside its homeland" while citing its use in Benin Kingdom, Alladah, and Whydah as examples of its foreign use


But strangely, your conclusion from the same article is that its use in Benin Kingdom is an indication of it being indigenous language of the Binis and thus not foreign.

Interesting!

bright007:


You left the most important message in the screenshot that talks about the lucumies that were employed in the Benin kingdom and started beating around the bush.

Just like he said the Lucumies were the king's slaves.

They work to serve the king. It even goes on to tell you why the king had to employ them to serve him . So that if they commit an offense, he wouldn't hesitate to punish them.

You wonder why they spoke foreign language? Because they are most likely part of the spoils of war.

Dont tell me you are pained because the document says some of those slaves maybe from Oyo (a yoruba land).

It's all history now. Cheer up.

Refere to my reply to your brother whom you got that from -- gayboy, oh sorry gregyboy.

You seem to have missed it. Lol. See link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846948/benin-yoruba-empire/5#89957911

bright007:
Now the essence of this thread has been defeated.


The creator of the thread should bow out in shame

Benin had always been influencing yorubas in the
Past both ijebus and Itsekiris and the others used to come to the ughoton River to trade with the Europeans were benins and oba took control

bright007:
Now the essence of this thread has been defeated.

The creator of the thread should bow out in shame

There is no need deleting the thread. If that's what you meant.

What are you worried about?

TAO11:


I think your motive shouldn't be to win an argument but ro learn.

Having said that, I shouldn't actually have replied this given that your reply shows you do not know certain basics yet.

But I consider it a moral duty to reply. And I can understand why you may be feeling the way you feel about this.

Lucumi, Lukumi, Olukumi, Onukumi, Alkomi, and endless variant spelling of it are in reference to the same people of a known region.

Your argument (which I think you're making here) is that each of these variant spellings relate to different ethnic group. This is is at best laughable.

It is like saying that the different variant spellings of Benin (such as Beny, etc.) by the Europeans --refer to different ethnic groups.

If you've ever read a book on early West African history, you would have come accross such variant spelling by Europeans of African names.

What I will advice is that first get that article and read through its pages first to ground yourself in the basics before replying.

But to say something specifically in reply to your comment:

(1) The 4th paragraph uses the words "Lucumi" and "Lucamee" interchangeably in reference to on and the same thing.

Again, this shows that the variants are simply spelling variants in reference to one and the same thing.

But more than that, the region of "Lucumi" (aka "Lucamee", etc.) was specifically delineated on the map of WestAfrica in that same paragraph.

It says Alladah and Whyday are to its southwest, and Benin Kingdom is to its southeast.

Where is that?

Learn to read and understand, that will make teaching you easier.

Did you read the part where variants of the word are used to refer to people? E.g Onukumi


Did you read that there are variants of the word in America according to the writer? I guess according to you that variant also refers to a group of people in west Africa.


Did you also read the letter by the French missionary saying the language is called "locomin" ?

Isnt that different from lucumi being used to refer to a group of people?

That's what I was pointing out to you.

gregyboy:


Benin had always been influencing yorubas in the
Past both ijebus and Itsekiris and the others used to come to the ughoton River to trade with the Europeans were benins and oba took control

Yeah the Ijebus clothed the Binis via some of such trade. Thanks to the Ijebus for such trade.

See attachment below for one of such European accounts which reminds us of how the Binis were still largely roaming stark n@ked in about the late-1890s.

bright007:
Now the essence of this thread has been defeated.


The creator of the thread should bow out in shame

we know the lingua franca of the British empire, oyo empire and etc. Tell us the lingua franca of the Benin empire, be reminded that edo language does not pass Benin city.

TAO11:


There is no need deleting the thread. If that's what you meant.

What are you worried about?

Worried? Why should I be worried when your propaganda has been disbanded?


Anyone following this thread should get the full gist now and know where to stand in this debate

lawani:
we know the lingua franca of the British empire, oyo empire and etc. Tell us the lingua franca of the Benin empire, be reminded that edo language does not pass Benin city.

You dont deserve a reply because your question reeks of embryonic intellectual redundancy.

Dont bother replying @Tao11

The spam bot is tired of your propaganda.

bright007:


You dont deserve a reply because your question reeks of embryonic intellectual redundancy.

Pls if you can not be polite, do stop commenting on my post. The Benin palace had a palace language and that language was Yoruba. Deal with it.

lawani:
Pls if you can not be polite, do stop commenting on my post. The Benin palace had a palace language and that language was Yoruba. Deal with it.

Yes the language was spoken by Yoruba slaves. I hope your ancestors weren't among the spoils of war that served the Benin Oba

TAO11:


Yeah the Ijebus clothed the Binis via some of such trade. Thanks to the Ijebus for such trade.

See attachment below for one of such European accounts which reminds us of how the Binis were still largely roaming stark n@ked in about the late-1890s.

I want to believe its a guy behind this moniker if its a lady you're finshed......

A lady should have limit and dignity you lack any makes me believe you are a Fraustrated hamaphrodite who got nothing to loose

See your fellow females....

Please TAO11 tell, me your are a man

lawani:
Pls if you can not be polite, do stop commenting on my post. The Benin palace had a palace language and that language was Yoruba. Deal with it.

Proof it......


Author lawani