Kobojunkie:

Abraham was the father of Israel, not the father of faith.

The covenant God made with Abraham did not include the tithing you suggest. Please go and re-read the covenant God made with Abraham. No where does God stipulate tithing of any sort to be included

You need to read and understand paul's assertion to the Hebrews again to understand what Paul really was saying, instead of trying desperately to re-write scripture to fit the narrative you have in your mind there. God does not make mistakes and He does not change His mind on what He has set in motion. Paul knew of this even when He was speaking to the Hebrews where He mentioned Abraham's one time payment of 10% of his booty from war to Melchizedek, King of Salem

And please where exactly did you find that God modified the existing principle for them under levitical priesthood? He established the priesthood(was that modified as well)?

P.S. God's Tithing law was essentially as sort of taxation system set up for the nation of Israel at that time.

petra1:


He is the father of everyone who is of faith .




It’s from Abrahamic under abrahamic covenant we first learned of tithing . It came before the law . We are not children of law but children of Faith of Abraham .

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,




The book of Hebrews only emphasized that the priesthood of Melchizedek in the days of Abraham was higher than the priesthood of Levi .



He added 2 more tithes for the Jews making it 3



Tithe and offerings are spiritual Oblations

petra1:

He is the father of everyone who is of faith .

petra1:

It’s from Abrahamic under abrahamic covenant we first learned of tithing . It came before the law . We are not children of law but children of Faith of Abraham .
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

petra1:

The book of Hebrews only emphasized that the priesthood of Melchizedek in the days of Abraham was higher than the priesthood of Levi .
He added 2 more tithes for the Jews making it 3
Tithe and offerings are spiritual Oblations

Kobojunkie:

Abraham was the father of everyone in the Jewish Faith i.e. the Hebrews

But, We gentiles are not descendants of Abraham, and have faith too.

The verse above mentions nothing of us learning of the laws or of tithing under abrahamic covenant. And in no way does it build on your association of the law of Sin and Death with the Abraham Convenant.

Abraham paid a tenth of his spoils of war, once to King Melchizedek...

there is no record of them ever meeting again.

So, what happened to this claim of tithing being established when God's Law of tithing was a regular duty?
Who added two more tithes for the jews? Where?

Where in the Bible does God state that Tithes and Offering are Spiritual Oblations?

petra1:

Where did the Bible day so

Matthew 1 vs 1- 2
1 This is the family history of Jesus the Messiah. He came from the family of David, who was from the family of Abraham.
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac.
Isaac was the father of Jacob.
Jacob was the father of Judah and his brothers.

petra1:

Prove it from scripture

petra1:

Tithing did not originate in the law of Moses . It was already a practice of faith under Abraham

petra1:

And what is that tenth called ?

petra1:

Record or no record does it matter . Abraham prayed only once or twice by record does it mean he never prayed. Again ?

petra1:

Under the law he added The tithe of feast and
The tithe for the poor

petra1:

Do you understand the meaning of oblation

Genesis 14 vs 16-24
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16 Then Abram brought back everything the enemy had stolen, as well as the women and servants, his nephew Lot, and everything Lot owned.
17 Then Abram went home after he defeated Kedorlaomer and the kings with him. On his way home, the king of Sodom went out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh. (This is now called King’s Valley.)
18 Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, also went to meet Abram. He brought bread and wine.
19 He blessed Abram and said,
“Abram, may you be blessed by God Most High,
the one who made heaven and earth.
20 And we praise God Most High,
who helped you defeat your enemies.”
Abram gave Melchizedek one-tenth of everything he had taken during the battle.
21 Then the king of Sodom told Abram, “Give me my people who were captured. But you can keep everything else.”
22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I promise to the Lord, the God Most High, the one who made heaven and earth.
23 I promise that I will not keep anything that is yours—not even a thread or a sandal strap! I don’t want you to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’
24 The only thing I will accept is the food that my young men have eaten, but you should give the other men their share. Take what we won in battle and give some to Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre. These men helped me in the battle.”

Kobojunkie:

The verse above shows that the gentiles are not necessarily of the Abrahamic tree. Do we have faith? Well, since faith applies to all men, then yes, we do have faith.

I see I made an error there. I meant the Hebrews whom Paul addressed there in his letter to the Hebrews of his time.

what faith under abraham? Please provide information to back up this claim of faith that existed under Abraham, preferably from the book of Genesis were Abraham's story is detailed.

If I paid a 10th of the money I had at a given time to the pizza man after his delivering my pizza order, are we to assume that I must have tithed -- fulfilled the covenant of God, even according to the law of tithing?

Oh it does matter, because you state that tithing has been in existence since before God even put together his law on tithing. And the one record that you suppose supports your claim has no suggestion that the loot given by Abraham to Melchizedek had anything to do with tithing -- i

So, unless you are willing to accept that my example above(paying 1/10th for pizza) is also tithing, you would need to do a lot more in proving that what Abraham did was tithing, and it was not a one time act by Him.

By the way, Paul, in Hebrews does state that it was a 1-time act for Abraham.

Yeah, that is still part of the same Law of tithing.. remember how I stated that the law is spread about all 4 books(Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), each piece a part of the whole. The so-called "Tithe of the poor", and the "tithe of the feast" you refer to are both detailed in Deuteronomy 14, and 26, which I have posted numerous times at this point. These laws were not added anywhere else in the bible cause they were part of the very Law of tithing that God created for His people to obey as part of the Law of Moses.

. If you read your bible, rather than continue to chase after your notes from your bibles and preachers, you would realize that this was less of a spiritual exercise.

petra1:


You May Need to study more About who Abraham is God’s plan for salvation for mankind was cut in Abrahamic covenant. Abraham was not a Jew . He’s the father of faith , father of the world .



My quotation was not from Hebrew but romans It’s important for you to also note that the book of Romans was not written to Jews but the gentile church yet he called Abraham our father and not the father of jews

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all



God chose Abraham to bless the entire world through him . He was God’s point of contact for planet earth . His Relationdhip with God , offering , tithe , righteousness , justification was not based on the law but faith . The high priestHood of his generation was Melchizedek order. tithing was a principle till the time of Jacob until they went into Egypt’ and could not practice their faith . God brought them out to worship him . And gave them laws and instituted tithing again .



No , except your pizza man is a high priest of God who cane to have communion with you




It’s not honor to dilute the word of God as you try to do . You know it’s a tithe Abraham Gave , God also demanded the tithe from Jacob . Let’s be sincere , leave argument apart . Tithe is given to God as a spiritual offering



the fact that only one incidence is recorded doesn’t mean it occur once , secondly It doesnt matter how many times Abraham did it . Monthly weekly , yearly , or once in a lifetime . Tithe and offerings are principles which pre existed the law



That’s the record in the manuscript found , not all things are detailed and not all manuscript are found . his emphasis was not about Abraham but how great Melchizedek is something like “ he is so great a high priest that he blessed Abraham , he is so great a high priest that Abraham Paid tithes to him. Let us not miss the big picture .



firstly tithing did not originate under the law . secondly We are not under the law . The law is only a reference . Tithes and offerings are eternal kingdom principles . As long as there is a high priest tithes and offerings are valid , worship is valid , prayer is valid and other principles which pre existed the law.

God testified of Abraham that he trusted him to teach his household the oracle of God. He passed the knowledge of tithing to his family and it’s in that ground I saac pass it to Jacob and Jacob made the afirmation.

Genesis 28:21-22
. . and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Tithe is a spiritual oblation to God .



If you start being insultive I may stop responding to you

genkins:

I cant believe an adult wrote this baldadash.

petra1:


I quoted scriptures. Kindly study it again with open mind .

tope777:
Pay your tithe as you're lead by holy spirit.
If your spirit direct you to pay to church, do it cheerfully.
If your spirit also direct you to pay to needy/orphan/fatherless or widows, do it cheerfully too.

tope777:
Most important thing I believe is that, do not eat your 10%, let it be your financial Spiritual Insurance.
Shalom.

EmmyDJourno:
Paying your Tithe in my opinion is in the aid of God's work. If a widow or less privileged thanks God cause of your Tithe, then God's work is done through you. Some have to go to the work of God in the Church, but giving it to those in need outside the Church doesn't water it down

UndauntedYOCA:
Well, once in a while I am moved to use my tithe to but things for those that are less privileged and I believe God accepts it that way as well.

valentineuwakwe:
bro, see follow your mind and pay your tithes where ever your hearts leads you....as for me i stop paying my tithes to the church as far back 2010, instead gives it to widows, beggars and those i no that are in need.....and am still doing fine and progressing in the vineyard of God both spiritually and financially!

kingigwe1:
you don't even know the origin of store house, where it was first mentioned and reason for a store house. Go back to that Deuteronomy and read fully about tithe.

Store house was cos of isreal steady war...then the king requested that the priest should concentrate on praying and sacrifice. Let the community try and send what to eat to the Levites.... At a point king Solomon asked them how they are doing and hope they are not lacking anything, they replied, they even have enough which the village do bring for them....now they were instructed ok if so build a store house( first place store Hosur was mentioned) , build a store house and place ten percent as they bring you something inside the store house.... Since some within the village don't even have, thus so the priest or those incharge can be feeding the community also from that store House.... What happened at the end? The same happening today...the priest at a point stop taking the 10 percent to the store house( read me, the priest and not the people)... Then Malachi shouted you are robbing God.... Malachi was talking to the priest not the isrealites..... You need to read your bible very well... Don't just follow quotes

Elizersalifu:


You quoted scriptures yes but out of context. You made the scriptures say what they are not saying.

God has never DEMANDED Tithe from anyone....whether before the law or under the law.

Abraham GAVE 1/10th of spoils not PAID. God did not DEMAND the 1/10th from Abraham. He did based on his volition according to his faith

While under the law of Moses, it was an obligation. Moses was the one who gave them this instruction.

If you observe very carefully, neither Jesus nor his disciples observed or taught tithing. The reason is because under the new testament, we are asked to give generously and without grudge.

petra1:


And what was his faith based upon? . Gods word to him .



Under the law Was Offering not and obligation as well , was honoring your father not an obligation as well? Why is it tithe some of tou single out? That only tells me there is something spiritual about the tithe that satan is terrified about.



Wrong, jesus encouraged tithing

Matthew 23:23
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

Kobojunkie:

You seek the counsel of your own mind to decide on whether to obey God or not?

EmmyDJourno:

Yes
But first God must have a place in your heart and mind
Then the Spirit counsels you through the word and actions of Jesus
#comprender

Kobojunkie:

And this Spirit , not your mind, is now the reason for you paying tithes in aid of God's work?
You are serious that the Spirit of God, not your mind, told you that paying your tithe aids the work of the Spirit of God?

Even back in the old covenant days, tithes were not just as an aid in the doing of the work of God, did you know that? The Tithing laws were set up as a tax system for the state of Israel, and it provided for more than just the pay for those who worked in the temple.

Elizersalifu:


1. Only one account in the entire Genesis where Abraham GAVE 1/10th after he returned from war. Observe very carefully that he did not tithe his income but spoils of war.

You don't build doctrine from a single scripture in the Bible.

2. Keeping an obligation does not really require faith. The law themselves are not of faith and are meant for the unrighteous (Gal 3v12 and 1 Tim 1v9). That's why none of the apostle taught tithing as practised under the law of Moses. Rather, they gave clear instructions on how we should give to support the work of our Father and also to help the needy amongst us.

3.Why do you observe only the law on tithing while ignoring the others??

Have you not read that if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all

4. In Mt 23, Jesus rebuked the hypocritical pharisees who thought by tithing would attain righteousness. Are you a pharisee? Why did Jesus not teach His followers tithing starting from the sermon on the mount to the last 40days seminar with his disciples after He rose from the dead ?

5. Jesus did not instruct any of his disciples or followers to PAY tithe. Provide scriptures if you think otherwise.

6. No Apostle PAID Tithe in the new testament. Show proof if you think otherwise. This should mean something to you if you are a good bible student. Rather, they GAVE THEMSELVES to the work of God.

7. We are born of the Spirit and our giving should not be limited by percentages. Better to give as led by the spirit than to give under an obligation or by law.

8. Our blessings in Christ are not based on tithing. He finished the work 2000yrs ago and blessed us with all spiritual blessings in Christ even before we entered the world.

9. Today, we don't give because we want God to bless us. We give because we are blessed.

EmmyDJourno:

Bro u are confused abeg
Today's Christianity is of the Spirit, the same Spirit that inspired the new and old testament
If that Spirit ain't guiding you, one begins to argue like you are doing
Seek the Spirit for guidance and stop constituting on my timeline

petra1:


It rather shows that If he could tithe of the spoil of war he must have been a regular tither . The only reason they could have met there was because . He didn’t want to go home with the spoil do the tithe collector has to meet him . If not he ought to have taken it to the priest .



It’s not one bible verse. tithing was a practice God revealed to Abraham . God himself testified thst Abraham will teach his family his principles

Genesis 18:19
For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him.

It was not only Abraham that practice tithing but his household and generation even to the time of Jacob .

Genesis 28:22
. . .and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.



We dont tithe because of the law . But because it’s a principle revealed to our father of faith . God only re enacted it under the Sinai covenant for the people of Israel because they lost it in Egypt .



Tithes And offerings are eternal principles Just as prayer, worship , offering etc



Why do you give offerings , alms and why honor your parents and neglect the tithe



Jesus may not make tithing a Major topic neither offering . He himself had said they are lesser things . But he still said men should tithe .And he didn’t condemn it as he did of sabbath keeping



Mathew 23:23 TLB
. . .You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.



Then welfare of the ministers in the terbernscle comes from tithes and offerings . Paul let’s us know that the principles still applies

Numbers 18:21-25
21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.




We could have said we are born of the spirit water baptism and communion and fasting are unnecessary . Why do we honor parents ? and still give alms ? The law is only a guide to a principle which already in existence .thats the reason you can find Paul even quoting the law . Principles are constant.



True , we give as act of worship and honor .



Yes , but that doesn’t take away the fact that we lay hold on blessing by our act of obedience and faith , there is grace we access and unlock by actions of faith and obedience . Law of sowing and reaping .

chinebu:

You are trying so hard to defend tithing with your brain explanation

. If Christ said tithe is not important which means it's insignificant which also means even if you don't pay tithe it means nothing No consequences at all right.

Then remember he said that knowing that his sacrifice on the cross will bring an end to things like the law of tithes. That's why he called it laser matter

petra1:


Not hard at all . Just accept the scriptures




That’s not what he said but you’re doing what you tried to accuse me of.

He never said tithe is insignificant . He said they should tithe and not neglect other weightier matters . Just give God his tithe




He didn’t say so . Why do you give offerings then?
Tithes and offerings are eternal principles .

Malachi 3:8
. . Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.

chinebu:

From all these back and forth deliberations I can confidently say that you are a beneficiary of tithe

Kobojunkie:

Today's Christianity is of the Spirit? You think I am the one who is confused?

How can the very Spirit of God be the one guiding you into doing that which is against God's command for you? Did Jesus die in vain?

petra1:


. Go to scriptures and study my post again . If you find anything unscriptural kindly point it out by scriptures . Launching attacks or insults is uncalled for . It shows weakness in defence . Pastors are mostly volunteers. They have jobs like every other person . They put their monies in ministry rather . Except few who are general overseers

chinebu:


big lie most pastor live large on tithes and offerings ok. I wonder why you are not bringing the whole teaching on tithing and sacrifices from the book of deutronomy to the table. I will love that part too

EmmyDJourno:
Argue with yourself, I am out

petra1:
Wrong , ask redeem, deeper life or cec members . You will know that to even qualify as a Pastor in such churches you must have a good job. As a banker or oil worker or business man etc . They are not paid for the pastoral work . They are volunteers and rather put their monies in the work.