₦airaland Forum

fortran12:
I said people who believe in God went to Abraham's bossom until Jesus came. So after Jesus died and rose John 3 vs 16 is applicable

Those before Abraham went where?

fortran12:
So if God sent messengers to their people according to you, why was mohammed killing people who are not muslims or forcing them to pay jizyah?

Jizya is a tax paid by non Muslims for protection in a Muslim state.
When non Muslims accepts Islam, they don't pay jizya but must fight when the state comes under attack as all Muslims must fight to defend the state.

Xposed2020:
Jizya is a tax paid by non Muslims for protection in a Muslim state.
When non Muslims accepts Islam, they don't pay jizya but must fight when the state comes under attack as all Muslims must fight to defend the state.

That is not the purpose of the jizyah. The pact of umar says otherwise

fortran12:
That is not the purpose of the jizyah. The pact of umar says otherwise

So if you already believed something, why ask me?
My Questions haven't been answered.

Xposed2020:
Those before Abraham went where?

Before Abraham people went to paradise and not heaven where God is. An example is when the thief was on the cross and accepted Jesus. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise. It was after Jesus died and rose that access to heaven became a reality.

fortran12:
Before Abraham people went to paradise and not heaven where God is. An example is when the thief was on the cross and accepted Jesus. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise. It was after Jesus died and rose that access to heaven became a reality.

Good.

fortran12:
Before Abraham people went to paradise and not heaven where God is. An example is when the thief was on the cross and accepted Jesus. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise. It was after Jesus died and rose that access to heaven became a reality.

fortran12:
I said people who believe in God went to Abraham's bossom until Jesus came. So after Jesus died and rose John 3 vs 16 is applicable

Please explain these two statements.

Xposed2020:
So if you already believed something, why ask me?
My Questions haven't been answered.

This is the reason for the Jizyah

Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, (Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/9.28

Its to disgrace the people muslims attacked and took over their lands

Xposed2020:
quote author=fortran12 post=90419456]
[b]I said people who believe in God went to Abraham's bossom until Jesus came. [/b]So after Jesus died and rose John 3 vs 16 is applicable

Please explain these two statements.

After Jesus rose you need him to get to heaven , before him no one entered heaven cos there was no sacrifice.

Xposed2020:
Jizya is a tax paid by non Muslims for protection in a Muslim state.
When non Muslims accepts Islam, they don't pay jizya but must fight when the state comes under attack as all Muslims must fight to defend the state.

You mean after the muslims do jihad against a place, they will now force people to pay tax for protection of their lives. That is after the muslims have taken some of the people as slaves and sex slaves

fortran12:
This is the reason for the Jizyah

Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, (Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/9.28

Its to disgrace the people muslims attacked and took over their lands

Jizya was paid for protection by non muslims and if any one does contrary to that, he will be held accountable for his deeds on the day of resurrection.
I was waiting for Qur'anic verses and you brought tafsir

Xposed2020:
Jizya was paid for protection by non muslims and if any one does contrary to that, he will be held accountable for his deeds on the day of resurrection.
I was waiting for Qur'anic verses and you brought tafsir

So the tafsir is wrong right?

fortran12:
You mean after the muslims do jihad against a place, they will now force people to pay tax for protection of their lives. That is after the muslims have taken some of the people as slaves and sex slaves

Prisoners of War just like in Abu ghraib prison or Guantanamo bay but then it was more humane than what western Christians do now.

fortran12:
So the tafsir is wrong right?

Tasfir means preaching.
It depends whether the preacher is a hardliners, moderate just like in Christianity.

Xposed2020:
So if you already believed something, why ask me?
My Questions haven't been answered.

Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace

How about this? This is also part of the pact

Xposed2020:
Tasfir means preaching.
It depends whether the preacher is a hardliners, moderate just like in Christianity.

So Ibn Kathir was a radical islamist? or he was narrating what happened during the time

fortran12:
You mean after the muslims do jihad against a place, they will now force people to pay tax for protection of their lives. That is after the muslims have taken some of the people as slaves and sex slaves

Similar to Christian crusade that over 1.5million innocent souls were massacred.
Or Israel after 1948 and the six day surprise attack against its neighbors.
But in Islam the POW is treated with dignity unlike Christianity & Jewish wise.

Xposed2020:
Prisoners of War just like in Abu ghraib prison or Guantanamo bay but then it was more humane than what western Christians do now.

So part of it was to enslave the people and choose the girls as sex slaves (mohammed did these by the way). Also the muslims initieated these wars, just cos the other peoples did not embrace islam. What kind of evangelism is that?

Xposed2020:
Similar to Christian crusade that over 1.5million innocent souls were massacred.
Or Israel after 1948 and the six day surprise attack against its neighbors.
But in Islam the POW is treated with dignity unlike Christianity & Jewish wise.

the christian crusades were a response to the islamic jihads. The muslims killed and enslaved much more. They burnt libraries all over, in india, Persia etc

fortran12:
Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace

How about this? This is also part of the pact

Are you avoiding answering me?

Xposed2020:
Are you avoiding answering me?

What is the question, cos i know you ignored me also

fortran12:
the christian crusades were a response to the islamic jihads. The muslims killed and enslaved much more. They burnt libraries all over, in india, Persia etc

So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

Xposed2020:
So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

I thought Christians never killed a fly.
Thought you were asked to turn ur left cheek instead.
Why did Jesus want to murder a man of God in the Bible?

Xposed2020:
So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

The crusades were wrong, but it was a response to the jihad undertaken by the muslims. The muslims conquered spain, turkey, italy until the crusades pushed them back. All these countries did nothing, muslims just fought them to expand their religion, Also the pope does not speak for Christians

fortran12:
The crusades were wrong, but it was a response to the jihad undertaken by the muslims. The muslims conquered spain, turkey, italy until the crusades pushed them back. All these countries did nothing, muslims just fought them to expand their religion, Also the pope does not speak for Christians

Who does the leader of the Vatican speaks for?
Muslims or pagans?

Xposed2020:
So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

But i know mohmmaed asked his guys to kill, he even promised them heaven with sex and wine, just to ginger them

Xposed2020:
Who does the leader of the Vatican speaks for?
Muslims or pagans?

roman catholics, they are do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

fortran12:
But i know mohmmaed asked his guys to kill, he even promised them heaven with sex and wine, just to ginger them

From Jesus' testimony, he was a violent "God" (Luke 22:36; Matthew 10:34).

fortran12:
But i know mohmmaed asked his guys to kill, he even promised them heaven with sex and wine, just to ginger them

He did not spare Sodom & Gomorrah for exercising their civil rights & expressing their sexual orientation.

fortran12:
But i know mohmmaed asked his guys to kill, he even promised them heaven with sex and wine, just to ginger them

Jesus wanted to murder moses because of ordinary circumcision when "he" knows baptism will overturn it later.

Xposed2020:
Jesus wanted to murder moses because of ordinary circumcision when "he" knows baptism will overturn it later.

So you agree with me that Mo' killed lots of people!

Xposed2020:
He did not spare Sodom & Gomorrah for exercising their civil rights & expressing their sexual orientation.

God made the law he is the creator and has every right to do as he wills, he did not create anyone with perverse sexual preferences. What is civil right when you are confronted with your creator?