₦airaland Forum

Etinosa1234:
boss just rest..that guy Na clown...I just weak...water and non water...but e dey record say Benin get that place by conquest,deposed their olofin and set up an oba for them and even collected tributes till 1851... and this clown dey talk of water and nonwater...
boss abeg no reply their mention again
I've seen brilliant Yoruba but I nor know where dem for pick this one

Him come dey tag Tao make him save am...Tao wey go write like 30 lines of stupidity come end am with I've EDUCATED u all and u HAVE take my word as AUTHORITY...... then fellow zombies wey e be say Tao Na their only source of information abt Benin go dey shout "ride on ma"

Thank you ooo. It’s annoying when someone brings unintelligent and stupid theory to argue about.
I actually think this metaphysical is intentionally trying to embarrass Yorubas because things he says will embarrass anyone..
I don rest for him matter.

Etinosa1234:
boss just rest..that guy Na clown...I just weak...water and non water...but e dey record say Benin get that place by conquest,deposed their olofin and set up an oba for them and even collected tributes till 1851... and this clown dey talk of water and nonwater...
boss abeg no reply their mention again
I've seen brilliant Yoruba but I nor know where dem for pick this one

Him come dey tag Tao make him save am...Tao wey go write like 30 lines of stupidity come end am with I've EDUCATED u all and u HAVE take my word as AUTHORITY...... then fellow zombies wey e be say Tao Na their only source of information abt Benin go dey shout "ride on ma"

My original post was addressed to you. Im sure you saw it but you refused to answer. You know me....I go flog you till you turn black-purple and leave you like a used rag here.

Davidnazee started like he knew what he was talking about but he was quickly deflated. Maybe you can help him.

Refer back to my original 5 points he is struggling to answer. He needs a life saver.

No guess work please.....and no witchery.


Where is edeyoung sef? Ohh, i forgot, thats gregyboy now..

davidnazee:
Thank you ooo. It’s annoying when someone brings unintelligent and stupid theory to argue about.
I actually think this metaphysical is intentionally trying to embarrass Yorubas because things he says will embarrass anyone..
I don rest for him matter.

Ehhn... Unintelligent ke!

You no fit name war.

You no fir dispute Oba na tenant, whether in Lagos or Edo.

You no fit reconstruct your war expedition.

Na so you go just dismiss the query....lazily dismiss this important quest as unintelligent

You owe me answers o! I no go let you get off just easy like that.

MetaPhysical:


[s]My original post was addressed to you. Im sure you saw it but you refused to answer. You know me....I go flog you till you turn black-purple and leave you like a used rag here.

Davidnazee started like he knew what he was talking about but he was quickly deflated. Maybe you can help him.

Refer back to my original 5 points he is struggling to answer. He needs a life saver.

No guess work please.....and no witchery.


Where is edeyoung sef? Ohh, i forgot, thats gregyboy now.. [/s]

All talk no meaning...

y'all overrate ursef too much ...if u can't address any of my answer(with facts like I did) that I gave u ... I'm so sorry... I can't answer

if water and non water was ever a factor..what then made Tao's forefathers to be paying annual tributes to us up till 1851... So if u still think water and non water is a factor ... I'll simply ignore u the way we ignore mad men..

By not replying (incase ur brain can't process it)

MetaPhysical:
We have told you origin of our Sword in Ife.

I separate Bini royalty from Edo slaves like you.

Tell us if Edo has a sword and the origin of it.

I bet since your ancestors were roaming bush nak3d they also carried machette. Machette is not Sword, huge difference between the two.

You can talk about Edo machette but never open your mouth to talk about Bini Sword until you are first permitted by Omo Oba palace to do so.

You can barely get permission to cover your penis in public.....and now you want to talk about Sword.

You freak!

You're making a joke.. The emoji explains that

Anyway my ancestoral linage constantly bleeped the yorubas people up when thier heads were needed for sacrifice....

Maybe thats why you guys call us witches because of the inbuilt anger over the centuries

gregyboy:
You're making a joke.. The emoji explains that

Anyway my ancestoral linage constantly bleeped the yorubas people up when thier heads were needed for sacrifice....

Maybe thats you guys call us witches because of the inbuilt anger over the centuries

Bini kept slave stock. Historical accounts say those stocks were sold and at one point the palace stopped selling them and started using the stock to sacrifice to Yoruba deities. History says Edo were the ethnic stock.

To prove it, history went further to provide evidence that your ancestors, as slaves, were forbidden from wearing clothes unless they were first granted an okay from palace to cover nak3dn3ss.

History says all these, not me.

Etinosa1234:
All talk no meaning...

y'all overrate ursef too much ...if u can't address any of my answer(with facts like I did) that I gave u ... I'm so sorry... I can't answer

if water and non water was ever a factor..what then made Tao's forefathers to be paying annual tributes to us up till 1851... So if u still think water and non water is a factor ... I'll simply ignore u the way we ignore mad men..

By not replying (incase ur brain can't process it)

Make una stop this nonsense abeg!

Name the war you fought in Lagos. Simple!

People no get time for your spits on this thread. Keep it simple, name your war in Lagos.

If you no fit name war then it didnt happen. Your mission in Lagos is not for war.


Also dispute that you are tenant in Lagos and Edo. No surutu abeg, keep it simple!

MetaPhysical:
[s]

Make una stop this nonsense abeg!

Name the war you fought in Lagos. Simple!

People no get time for your spits on this thread. Keep it simple, name your war in Lagos.

If you no fit name war then it didnt happen. Your mission in Lagos is not for war.


Also dispute that you are tenant in Lagos and Edo. No surutu abeg, keep it simple!

[/s]

if u had done ur research..u won't be talking like a retard... people who are not conquered don't pay tributes to people..

My last reply to u kid

Etinosa1234:
if u had done ur research..u won't be talking like a retard... people who are not conquered don't pay tributes to people..

My last reply to u kid

Edo slave, add picture of your ancestor and their penis to Edo blog sites to complete story of your servitude.

Etinosa1234:
(1)ThErE ArE TwO aCCouNts...oh...So u know there are two accounts to a story....So what is the account that looks more true?...The one corroborated by Josua Ulsheimer or the one by impression

(1) You’re obviously so sad to find that that there are, in fact, two (and not just one) traditional accounts of the Lagos historical events. Lol.

Whether you like it or you hate it, the Benin traditional account is only one account of the Lagos events. As is to be normally expected, the Lagos traditional account too rightfully speaks to the events.

And these two accounts differ on important details such as the manner of settling down of the Binis (peaceful infiltration vs. royal conquest), the identity of Ashipa (a Bini vs. a Yoruba), etc. Your reference, R. Smith (1988) also cited the existence of the Lagos position.

Regarding which of the two traditional account is true, I have already discussed the evidence of the truth of the Lagos account and the falsehood of the Benin account (you just need to form the habit of reading before replying).

The Lagos account maintains that the Binis and others settled in Lagos by peaceful infiltration. This is accurate because had the Binis settled otherwise by a royal conquest, the use of Edo languages as the Lagos court language (or in some part of Lagos) would have been found in history. But there is no hint of any such thing in recorded or oral history.

Also, the Lagos account maintains that the first King of the present dynasty, Ashipa, is a Yoruba. This is also accurate because while the name Ashipa is conspicuously absent from Edo names (despite Chief Egheravba’s admirable attempt. Lol), the name Ashipa is found everywhere in Yoruba names, e.g. from 1500 Oyo.

For the umpteenth time, Josua Ulsheimer’s account did NOT corroborate the Benin claim of settling-in by conquest. Nowhere does Ulsheimer's account provide any such corroboration. You may choose to stop fooling yourself by yourself. Lol.

Rather, what Josua Ulsheimer’s account corroborates here is the historical fact of conflicts in Lagos. He noted simply that the Bini side was camped on one of the islands.

Ulsheimer was writing about this in 1603 when he visited, the Binis (and others) had long settled in Lagos before Ulsheimer. In sum, Ulsheimer could not possibly have witnessed the settling-in of the Binis (by conquest or otherwise). He cannot possibly witness and document what had happened prior to him.

Moreover, regarding the word "impression", I had suspected that I will be providing some tuition on the English language (considering how you once equated the word “perhaps” to mean “certainty”.

Anyways, the word “impression”, especially in the context of its use by R. Smith (in the sentence: “The impression given by Lagos tradition”) signifies the following: “conviction”, “notion”, “effect”, “depiction”, “representation”, “portrayal”, , “perception”, “impact”, etc. Gosh!

Self-inflicted ignorance is indeed a terrible thing. Do yourself the big favour of rising above inferiority complex.


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cc: MetaPhysical, lawani, gomojam, RuggedSniper, BabaRamota1980, hayoholla, Babtoundey, Moneywomen17

Etinosa1234:
(2) Nonsense as usual... So u'll even believe the one of impression even when it was proven that they were outflanked and they couldn't put up a prolonged resistance any longer

3) what are ur sources that corroborates this...u can't Jus be telling cock and bull story not supported by any known historian

4) Obviously u lack reading ability... where in the page did u see "one of the island" The Benin conquered the Awori and that's final...if u like cry

(2) I have made life easier for your above regarding the word “impression” and the context of its use.

I have also earlier-on helped you realize the significance of the word “perhaps” as used by R. Smith in connection to the Benin account of "outflanking" the Aworis. In other words, R. Smith himself, whom you cited, doubted this Benin account of "outflanking" the Aworis.

(3) Two sources actually: The first source for this Lagos account may be seen on page 221 of Professor S.A. Akintoye’s “A History of the Yoruba People” where he writes:

“By the late sixteenth century, owing to the growth of the coastal lagoon trade, Lagos and the other small Aworis settlements had come to have a sizeable resident populations of Ijebu, Benin, Ilaje, Ikale, Owo, Egba, Egbado, Aja, and Ijaw traders. In about 1600, conflicts between some of the non-Awori communities on the one hand and the indigenous Awori people ruled by the Olofin on the other, was affecting the trade so much as to attract the attention of the government of Benin.”

From the foregoing historical account, two distinct timelines become obvious. The first (i.e. the late-1500s) speaks to the settling-in of different immigrant group (including the Binis) in Lagos, for trade purpose, without any need to allude to violence.

The second which you actually requested (i.e. c1600) speaks to the post-settling-in trade conflicts which pitched the immigrants (the Binis et al.) against their host (the Aworis).


The second source for this Lagos account is – interestingly enough – a corroboration of this Lagos account by the Andreas Josua Ulsheimer whose writing indicates clearly that at the time of his visit, there was an ongoing conflict in Lagos, and the Binis were a party to it as they camped on one of the islands of the then Lagos.

(4) Again, always endeavor to read what you will be responding to in order to avoid more embarrassing moments as this.

The Bini's camp during the conflicts was only on one of the islands of the then Lagos. Josua Ulsheimer was quite careful when documenting this. He avoided saying that Lagos was the camp of the Binis.

Rather, according to R. Smith’s reference to his account, “the German Josua Ulsheimer, who visited Lagos in 1603 and who described the island as a military camp occupied by the soldiers of the King of Benin and governed by four of his generals.” R. Smith (1988:73).

A contextual reading of this same page of R. Smith (1988) shows clearly that this island is the same part of Iddo island which they had aforetime already settled into (peacefully according to the Lagos account). R. Smith (1988:73).


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Etinosa1234:
(5)hIstOrIanS dOnT kNOw...tell me how many historians supported that the naming of eko was a corrupted word..even Josua Ulsheimer supported it when he said the island was a military camp...what does eko mean in Benin...camp...who made Lagos a military camp? orhorgbua...who named it camp? orhorgbua...
So tell me how u arrived at the conclusion that eko was a corrupted word ,who named it oko..
and the circumstances by which it was named.

(5) You seem pained by the fact that historians do not know, with absolute certainty, what the etymological origin of the name “Eko” for today’s Lagos is.

I am not sure where you got the impression of a name corruption from. Neither am I sure where you got the idea from that some historians support any name corruption.

I made it clear citing Robert Smith (1988) that historians do not know, with absolute certainty, what the etymological origin of the name “Eko” for today’s Lagos is.

For the umpteenth time, R. Smith writes on page 72 as follows expressing the speculative nature of the hypothesized etymologies:

“Its names reflect its past; to the Yoruba it is Eko, deriving PROBABLY from the farm (oko) of the earliest settlers, though alternatively – or additionally – IT MAY BE the Bini word (eko) for a war-camp.”

Moreover, contrary to what you think, there is nowhere in Josua Ulseimer’s account where he discusses this etymology. He simply alludes to the fact that the Binis camped on a part of Iddo Island during the conflict.

He never mentioned anywhere that the Yoruba name of today’s Lagos was derived from the Edo word for “military camp”. No, he never did. If he did, historians like R. Smith would obviously entertain no doubt about the origin of today’s indigenous name of Lagos.

Refer again to my original comment to re-acquaint yourself with my argument on the origin of today’s indigenous name of Lagos. My argument appears to have eluded your grasp the first time, or you simply didn’t read what you’re pretending to be responding to.

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Etinosa1234:
6) Benin account stated that ashipa was a Benin..and it was corroborated by European sources ...see a picture from
G.T. Stride and C. Ifeka, in their book titled Peoples and empires pf West Africa
also an excerpt from Kristin Mann(who is obviously not Benin nor Yoruba) and others that I can't mention.. lemme now see proof that ashipa was of Yoruba descent(full pronunciation of ashipa coming up soon)

(6) Lol. No European source corroborated the Benin account that Ashipa is of Edo descent. They simply state the Benin account and then attribute it accordingly to Benin without passing any judgemennt.

For example, your 3rd attachment, from page 29 of Kristin Mann’s “Slavery and the Birth of an African City”, makes it clear that this is the Benin traditional account. Kristin Mann writes in your own attachment as follows:

“Benin tradition remember the viceroy [i.e. Ashipa] as the son or grandson of Oba Orhogbua; Lagosian ones remember him as a member of the royal family of Isheri who was rewarded with the appointment when he escorted the body of one of the original Benin commanders home for burial. Whatever the origin of its founder, the office gave birth to a new royal dynasty that in time became identified with Lagos, as demonstrated by the local tradition of Awori ancestry.”

It becomes clear from your own attachment that Kristin Mann duly attributed the respective accounts to the respective kingdoms without passing any judgement. Lol.

It is also clear that the Benin account contains an internal doubt as to who Ashipa really is – son or grandson. Lol. You got disgraced as always for lying that Kristin Mann agrees with the Benin account.

Your 2nd attachment which is the preceding page (i.e. page 28) from Kristin Mann’s “Slavery and the Birth of an African City” says absolutely nothing on the question of Ashipa’s identity. Neither does it support any of the weird claims of the Benin account. The most that it does about the Benin account is an expression of doubt and uncertainty.

Similarly, your 4th attachment simply states the Benin account (and identifies it as such), and also states the Lagos account (and identifies it as such) without passing any judgement, apart from its allusion to an internal contradiction within the Binis' own account. Lol.

For some interesting reasons, you decided to cut out (from your screenshot) all these points that disgraces you.

The relevant portion of your 4th attachment reads as follows from page 12 of P. Cole’s “Modern and Traditional Elites in the Politics of Lagos”:

“The Benin version of the myth is simply one of conquest. Oba Orhogbua had established a camp (Eko, which, incidentally, is the Yoruba name for Lagos) as a base for its raids against Dahomey. He placed a viceroy, Aisika-hienbore (we shall not desert this place) over Lagos. … This version although agrees that the Olofin also made Ashipa 'a sort of governor’ in Lagos.”

As always, you got disgraced again by your own attachment for lying that the author upheld the Benin account as historically accurate. Lol.

And finally on this, your 1st attachment as is to be expected turns out to be a 'copy-and-paste' from one of your junky Edo blogs from where you all regurgitate 'super-stories' into each other’s mouths, and then proceed to fraudulently pass them off on Nairaland as academic materials.

Interestingly, your supposed "picture from G.T. Stride and C. Ifeka" is not attached anywhere to your comment here. Is there any reason why you decided to lie about this? Lol.

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Etinosa1234:
(7)Egharevba link is absurd because he is Benin or u lack understanding as shown clearly... Kindly show me account by Lagos that has been corroborated by European witnesses

(8 )Lol...if u Don't know... Josua account most likely support the Benin account as clearly stated in the book but ur blind self has refused to see it... I'll show u clearly

(9) Yeye dey smell.. there is no linguistics indicator but u claim oranmiyan ruled Benin... So tell me...did he speak Benin or he spoke Yoruba to Benin pple...if u can prove what oranmiyan spoke ...u are also stating what ashipa who was a Benin commander spoke to the Awori.

(7) No, Egharevba’s attempt to connection the obvious Yoruba name – “Ashipa” – to Edo language is absurd not simply because Egharevba is himself a Bini, but because (1) the name "Ashipa" is conspicuously absent from Edo names, and (2) the Edo sentence he tried to link this name to cannot logically be someone’s name – “we shall not desert this place” can not possibly be someone's name. Lol.

On the contrary, this name – from all indications (ranging from its antiquity, to its preponderance, to its clarity, and to its meaning) – belongs to the Yorubas. It signifies “the leader” (lit. "one who paves the path for others"). It’s been in use in Yoruba society since at least the 1500s.

This is a strong linguistinc evidence which corroborates the Lagos account that the first King, “Ashipa” is indeed of Yoruba descent.

(8 ) Suddenly your position has shifted from one of certainty to one of "most likely". This sounds like good news of hope to me.

Anyways, I will be waiting to read from you where Josua Ulsheimer’s account describes the settling down of the Binis into Lagos by conquest. Lol.

On the contrary, what Ulsheimer's account here simply says is that the Benin side -- during a time of conflict in Lagos in the early 1600 – was camped somewhere on one of the islands of Lagos.

(9) Again, my argument (at that point (8 ) of my prior set of comments) is that there is no historical evidence (or surviving linguistic evidence) which even suggests that the Lagos palace once used Edo language as its lingua-franca. You seem to have seen the point here.

This is a linguistic knock-out to the Benin account of royal conquest, because if the Binis' settling in Lagos was by some royal conquest, then the palace of Lagos would have been at least bilingual (i.e. Yoruba and Edo speaking) at some point in Lagos' history. But there is no account of anything os such in writing or oral.

Regarding, your straw-clutching point about Oranmiyan’s language when he ruled Benin. Well, even according to the 'revised' Benin account, he is agreed to be born and raised well into adulthood, on the soil of Ile-Ife. So, your guess about his language is as good as mine.

Moreover, his son – even according to Benin account – was born and raised on Edo soil and he is said even by same Benin account to have uttered his first words (on recovering from vocal impairment) in Yoruba language – “Owo mi ka” he said. Lol. So, your guess is as good as mine on the language spoken by the earliest royalties of Benin Kingdom.


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Etinosa1234:
(10)if it was really as a result of peaceful conquest.as u claim..then what led to the village paying tribute to the Benin till early 19th century... clearly u can't pay tributes to a tribe u haven't fought

There is no proof of political alliance.... Ashipa was a Benin commander given the oloriogun title

There is also no proof that Ashipa was married to a Benin princess

Having proved to u , that ur attempt to revise history has been squashed...u can now bring it on at a second attempt...clown

Even the present Oba corroborated this story...So what is ur point

(10) “Peaceful conquest”?? Is that even a phrase in the English language?? Just asking!

Moving on: The Lagos account indicates that Ashipa sought political alliance with the Benin people and government during the Lagos succession tussle between him and other Awori princes.

This indication is obvious in the account of Ashipa’s gracious feat of leading the procession that conveyed Asheru’s corpse back to Benin. R. Smith (1988:74), S. Akintoye (2010:222).

In the light of this background, the actual significance of Ashipa’s remittances to his patron (i.e. the Oba of Benin) – who supported his rightful ambitions during the Lagos succession tussle – therefore becomes manifest.

Neither, “Ashipa” nor “Oloriogun” is an Edo word. This fact corroborates the Lagos account of Ashipa’s Yoruba descent again, and in fact knocks-out the Benin account again.

For an evidence of Ashipa’s marriage to a Benin princess, refer to the source of your own 4th attachment – i.e. where it writes, on the same page 12, as follows:

“Ashipa marries a Bini woman whose son Addo actually lives in Benin and is invited back to rule.”

Regarding your link to a supposed interview with Oba Akiolu, first let me make it clear that I have no problems at all with the Edos if they take their Kings as historians.

But for us Yorubas, our kings are simply kings. Oba Akiolu is a King (+ a former policeman). He has never at anytime paraded himself as a historian.

However, he has the civil right just as anyone else to tell any 'story' he wishes to tell.

Moreover, while it is clear from the Lagos account that Lagos kings of the present dynasty trace their ancestry to Benin (but via Ado’s mother); their strict paternal ancestry does trace back to Ife (through Ashipa – Ado’s father), but later – along the line – to Ilesa (through Ologun Kutere).

Having said that, even your link which was supposed to go to an interview with Oba Akiolu shows that his supposed responses cannot possibly be from an interview context – considering their perfect lexis & structure, as well as their absolute lack of spontaneity. These observations are evidently anomalous to interview responses.

In fact, the delineation between the king’s supposed responses and the author’s own analyses was deliberately blurred. And the reason why the author engaged in this foul-play is not far-fetched at all. He is an Edo man – Gabriel Omonhimin.

Again, I appreciate your strong desire to be a Lagosian, but such desire should not be sought desperately by hook or by crook. Doing that only bares your inferiority even further. Take care of yourself.

MetaPhysical:


My original post was addressed to you. Im sure you saw it but you refused to answer. You know me....I go flog you till you turn black-purple and leave you like a used rag here.

Davidnazee started like he knew what he was talking about but he was quickly deflated. Maybe you can help him.

Refer back to my original 5 points he is struggling to answer. He needs a life saver.

No guess work please.....and no witchery.


Where is edeyoung sef? Ohh, i forgot, thats gregyboy now..

gregyboy:
I need an article from 1475 to 1914 supporting the ownership of ada and eben to ife or archaeological evidence

Bro, why are you ignorantly stubborn? When it seems you've been beaten to a corner, you ask for archeological evidence

hayoholla:
Bro, why are you ignorantly stubborn? When it seems you've been beaten to a corner, you ask for archeological evidence

I call person whicth you come say na stubborn. Aah you sef!
Since i show picture here with their ancestor penis my car no gree start again. Na bus i dey catch upandan. Mechanic no fit diagnose wetin happen. These people don do something to my car. They are wicked.

TAO11:
(1) You’re obviously so sad to find that that there are, in fact, two (and not just one) traditional accounts of the Lagos historical events. Lol.

Whether you like it or you hate it, the Benin traditional account is only one account of the Lagos events. As is to be normally expected, the Lagos traditional account too rightfully speaks to the events.

And these two accounts differ on important details such as the manner of settling down of the Binis (peaceful infiltration vs. royal conquest), the identity of Ashipa (a Bini vs. a Yoruba), etc. Your reference, R. Smith (1988) also cited the existence of the Lagos position.

Regarding which of the two traditional account is true, I have already discussed the evidence of the truth of the Lagos account and the falsehood of the Benin account (you just need to form the habit of reading before replying).

The Lagos account maintains that the Binis and others settled in Lagos by peaceful infiltration. This is accurate because had the Binis settled otherwise by a royal conquest, the use of Edo languages as the Lagos court language (or in some part of Lagos) would have been found in history. But there is no hint of any such thing in recorded or oral history.

Also, the Lagos account maintains that the first King of the present dynasty, Ashipa, is a Yoruba. This is also accurate because while the name Ashipa is conspicuously absent from Edo names (despite Chief Egheravba’s admirable attempt. Lol), the name Ashipa is found everywhere in Yoruba names, e.g. from 1500 Oyo.

For the umpteenth time, Josua Ulsheimer’s account did NOT corroborate the Benin claim of settling-in by conquest. Nowhere does Ulsheimer's account provide any such corroboration. You may choose to stop fooling yourself by yourself. Lol.

Rather, what Josua Ulsheimer’s account corroborates here is the historical fact of conflicts in Lagos. He noted simply that the Bini side was camped on one of the islands.

Ulsheimer was writing about this in 1603 when he visited, the Binis (and others) had long settled in Lagos before Ulsheimer. In sum, Ulsheimer could not possibly have witnessed the settling-in of the Binis (by conquest or otherwise). He cannot possibly witness and document what had happened prior to him.

Moreover, regarding the word "impression", I had suspected that I will be providing some tuition on the English language (considering how you once equated the word “perhaps” to mean “certainty”.

Anyways, the word “impression”, especially in the context of its use by R. Smith (in the sentence: “The impression given by Lagos tradition”) signifies the following: “conviction”, “notion”, “effect”, “depiction”, “representation”, “portrayal”, , “perception”, “impact”, etc. Gosh!

Self-inflicted ignorance is indeed a terrible thing. Do yourself the big favour of rising above inferiority complex.


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I must confess u have the ability to twist words to show what is not to have ever happened...

1)So between the Lagos and Benin account ...u believe the Lagos account to be more rightfully true ...

2) Can u please tell me what makes the Lagos account more accurate than the others..... Inasmuch as u don't like it .. I'll continue to stick it Linto ur head that the Egharevba account was corroborate by Josua Ulsheimer who was present there as a witness...as much as u'll love to deny it... So tell me how many European account corroborate this fairytale

3) Clearly as the name states...it was a camp... Benin didn't come to occupy the land...they came there on a mission extend their control over to the land.. Besides the Former Roman Empire...The conquered countries still kept their language...eg Israel

4)Lol...A Lagos account made to save face...Ur oba of Lagos recently traced his lineage to Benin... Ashipa has been found to be a corrupted word from Benin

5)and for the umpteenth time, u failed to see where it was stated that Egharevba account was corroborate by the Josua Ulsheimer account..... Maybe until u can Understand the difference between in the island and one of the island
I'll post the pic for ur sorry ass to see

6) Wow Ulsheimer was not accurate enough...So what makes u more accurate...When he came ...He found out that the Lagos was a military camp... He saw it... not that he was told...

So tell me ...Can a village set up a military camp in another man's village...if it were not through conquest... why should Benin then have the right to choose and confirm who becomes the next oba of Lagos and also collect tributes...

U can't collect tributes from a country u didn't defeat

7) Teacher wey nor know book...The fact that it's an impression doesn't mean that it's real

TAO11:
(2) I have made life easier for your above regarding the word “impression” and the context of its use.

I have also earlier-on helped you realize the significance of the word “perhaps” as used by R. Smith in connection to the Benin account of "outflanking" the Aworis. In other words, R. Smith himself, whom you cited, doubted this Benin account of "outflanking" the Aworis.

(3) Two sources actually: The first source for this Lagos account may be seen on page 221 of Professor S.A. Akintoye’s “A History of the Yoruba People” where he writes:

“By the late sixteenth century, owing to the growth of the coastal lagoon trade, Lagos and the other small Aworis settlements had come to have a sizeable resident populations of Ijebu, Benin, Ilaje, Ikale, Owo, Egba, Egbado, Aja, and Ijaw traders. In about 1600, conflicts between some of the non-Awori communities on the one hand and the indigenous Awori people ruled by the Olofin on the other, was affecting the trade so much as to attract the attention of the government of Benin.”

From the foregoing historical account, two distinct timelines become obvious. The first (i.e. the late-1500s) speaks to the settling-in of different immigrant group (including the Binis) in Lagos, for trade purpose, without any need to allude to violence.

The second which you actually requested (i.e. c1600) speaks to the post-settling-in trade conflicts which pitched the immigrants (the Binis et al.) against their host (the Aworis).


The second source for this Lagos account is – interestingly enough – a corroboration of this Lagos account by the Andreas Josua Ulsheimer whose writing indicates clearly that at the time of his visit, there was an ongoing conflict in Lagos, and the Binis were a party to it as they camped on one of the islands of the then Lagos.

(4) Again, always endeavor to read what you will be responding to in order to avoid more embarrassing moments as this.

The Bini's camp during the conflicts was only on one of the islands of the then Lagos. Josua Ulsheimer was quite careful when documenting this. He avoided saying that Lagos was the camp of the Binis.

Rather, according to R. Smith’s reference to his account, “the German Josua Ulsheimer, who visited Lagos in 1603 and who described the island as a military camp occupied by the soldiers of the King of Benin and governed by four of his generals.” R. Smith (1988:73).

A contextual reading of this same page of R. Smith (1988) shows clearly that this island is the same part of Iddo island which they had aforetime already settled into (peacefully according to the Lagos account). R. Smith (1988:73).


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I need to sleep now but b4 I go Lemme tell u this

U don't pay annual tributes for up to 200yrs to people u claim peacefully infiltrated into your kingdom

People that are not conquered do not give another village the undisputed right to choose their next oba

Josua clearly states there was a military camp on the island not one of the islands as u are forcing ur self to see...

U Can't set a military camp in an area without having military aims...

U can't even set military camp in someone's land without expecting a fight...

Take this as my potential last reply to you while u bask in the hallucination of winning any debate

Lol so u have the ability to qoute a work written by a Yoruba man but still discard the one of Benin even when it was clearly stated that it was corroborated by an early account...Yeye dey smell

MetaPhysical:
How can you say you fought a war and there is no name for it. War is monumental and a landmark of history.

You went all way from Benin to Lagos to fight a war and you didnt have a name for your mission or a historic marker for your conquest. Are you serious Who does that

If there is no name for it it didnt happen!

Like I said before, you dont have to respond immediately on this. Take your time to dig and come back with a name for this war that Bini fought in Lagos. Stop guessing about it.


Water is a prominent feature in any land. It makes a huge difference your capacity to influence different aspects of trade, execution of defense of homeland and war to foreign land.

Water gave Lagos advantage over Britain in the war of Agidingbi.

Water gave Britain advantage over Argentina in the war over Falklands.

Start reconstructing your journey for me starting from Benin to fight war in Lagos. If you cant do it right away, please go get your material together.

Do a night meeting of witches as is typical of you and get your facts together, then report back here.

Im a patient person!

I know you are trying to sound reasonable but you are not.. since you like to name wars maybe you can tell us the name of the war dahomey defeated Oyo, or Oyo war with Bariba, Oyo war with Nupe..
This your emotional display is not enough to get you anywhere.. you can read the attachment below and get more agitated

MetaPhysical:
Bini kept slave stock. Historical accounts say those stocks were sold and at one point the palace stopped selling them and started using the stock to sacrifice to Yoruba deities. History says Edo were the ethnic stock.

To prove it, history went further to provide evidence that your ancestors, as slaves, were forbidden from wearing clothes unless they were first granted an okay from palace to cover nak3dn3ss.

History says all these, not me.

You left out the part of history that says naked Benin warriors conquered and subjugated the Yorubas for over 500years.. or are you ashamed of that part??

MetaPhysical:
Edo slave, add picture of your ancestor and their penis to Edo blog sites to complete story of your servitude.

why do you want to carry on the pain of your ancestors? they saw the big joysticks of their Edo conquerors for over 500years, now you wan carry on that legacy; looking at Edo warriors big joysticks lol

davidnazee:
why do you want to carry on the pain of your ancestors? they saw the big joysticks of their Edo conquerors for over 500years, now you wan carry on that legacy; looking at Edo warriors big joysticks lol

In 1940, 80 yrs ago, your 25 yr old Edo ancestors were swinging penis around in public and titt1es all around town because they were not eligible to wear clothes. Meanwhile Binis of any age wore clothes.

Yet you say you taught Yoruba about garment. You needed the clothe most. . Yoruba have been dressed in garments centuries before Edo was civilized by Oranmiyan. We have proof.

TAO11:
(1) You’re obviously so sad to find that that there are, in fact, two (and not just one) traditional accounts of the Lagos historical events. Lol.

Whether you like it or you hate it, the Benin traditional account is only one account of the Lagos events. As is to be normally expected, the Lagos traditional account too rightfully speaks to the events.

And these two accounts differ on important details such as the manner of settling down of the Binis (peaceful infiltration vs. royal conquest), the identity of Ashipa (a Bini vs. a Yoruba), etc. Your reference, R. Smith (1988) also cited the existence of the Lagos position.

Regarding which of the two traditional account is true, I have already discussed the evidence of the truth of the Lagos account and the falsehood of the Benin account (you just need to form the habit of reading before replying).

The Lagos account maintains that the Binis and others settled in Lagos by peaceful infiltration. This is accurate because had the Binis settled otherwise by a royal conquest, the use of Edo languages as the Lagos court language (or in some part of Lagos) would have been found in history. But there is no hint of any such thing in recorded or oral history.

Also, the Lagos account maintains that the first King of the present dynasty, Ashipa, is a Yoruba. This is also accurate because while the name Ashipa is conspicuously absent from Edo names (despite Chief Egheravba’s admirable attempt. Lol), the name Ashipa is found everywhere in Yoruba names, e.g. from 1500 Oyo.

For the umpteenth time, Josua Ulsheimer’s account did NOT corroborate the Benin claim of settling-in by conquest. Nowhere does Ulsheimer's account provide any such corroboration. You may choose to stop fooling yourself by yourself. Lol.

Rather, what Josua Ulsheimer’s account corroborates here is the historical fact of conflicts in Lagos. He noted simply that the Bini side was camped on one of the islands.

Ulsheimer was writing about this in 1603 when he visited, the Binis (and others) had long settled in Lagos before Ulsheimer. In sum, Ulsheimer could not possibly have witnessed the settling-in of the Binis (by conquest or otherwise). He cannot possibly witness and document what had happened prior to him.

Moreover, regarding the word "impression", I had suspected that I will be providing some tuition on the English language (considering how you once equated the word “perhaps” to mean “certainty”.

Anyways, the word “impression”, especially in the context of its use by R. Smith (in the sentence: “The impression given by Lagos tradition”) signifies the following: “conviction”, “notion”, “effect”, “depiction”, “representation”, “portrayal”, , “perception”, “impact”, etc. Gosh!

Self-inflicted ignorance is indeed a terrible thing. Do yourself the big favour of rising above inferiority complex.


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cc: MetaPhysical, lawani, gomojam, RuggedSniper, BabaRamota1980, hayoholla, Babtoundey, Moneywomen17

You are obviously troubled by Benin treatment of Lagos.. only a troubled person can distort history so much the way you do..
For the umpteenth time, Ulsheimer served in Great Benin powerful miltary and fought in the campaign against Lagos (Aworis, your tribe).. You can see it in the attachment below and if you like intepret it to mean he was a cassava farmer in Lagos, na your way be that.. or you can even start to insult him for his role in annhilating the Aworis (your tribe)

Who is posting individual opinions as historical fact. Who posted this nonsense? Patrick Cole is not even a Lagosian, he schooled in Lagos but his ancestry is not in Lagos. Similarly for Lawal. In any case the people gave individual opinion.

If you take war from Benin to Lagos the people along the way will have account of the war as well sorrounding areas. More than anyone else, the victim themselves will have account of the war. There are no contentions or conflicts in the bombardment of Lagos. There are no conflicts either in the war between Akintoye and Kosoko. Why are there so many variations of this phantom war that Bini fought in Lagos? The people in this articlegave individual opinion. If we take opinion of 100 individuals we wll end with many versions and contradictory accounts..What does history say?

Whoever you, stop posting individual opinion to substitute for history. Bini did not fight Lagos. The reason of Bini in Lagos is quite different.

Etinosa1234:
I must confess u have the ability to twist words to show what is not to have ever happened...

1)So between the Lagos and Benin account ...u believe the Lagos account to be more rightfully true ...

2) Can u please tell me what makes the Lagos account more accurate than the others..... Inasmuch as u don't like it .. I'll continue to stick it Linto ur head that the Egharevba account was corroborate by Josua Ulsheimer who was present there as a witness...as much as u'll love to deny it... So tell me how many European account corroborate this fairytale.

(1) I have already explained why the Lagos account is true and the Benin account false. All you need do is have the courage to read the argument I have adduced in that regards, and then present any contention you may have about my argument. Stop being dead-scared. See point (2) here.

(2) Your request here again proves that you clearly don't read what you pretend to be responding to. Many comments were addressed to you but you've chosen repeatedly to ignore them. The answer to your question here is found in one of those comments and it goes thus:

Regarding which of the two traditional account is true, I have already discussed the evidence of the truth of the Lagos account and the falsehood of the Benin account (you just need to form the habit of reading before replying).

The Lagos account maintains that the Binis and others settled in Lagos by peaceful infiltration. This is accurate because, had the Binis indeed settled otherwise by a royal conquest, the use of Edo language as the Lagos court language (or in some parts of Lagos) would have been found in history. But there is no hint of any such thing in recorded or oral history.

Also, the Lagos account maintains that the first King of the present dynasty, Ashipa, is a Yoruba. This is also accurate because while the name Ashipa is conspicuously absent from Edo names (despite Chief Egheravba’s admirable attempt. Lol), the name Ashipa is found everywhere in Yoruba names, e.g. from 1500 Oyo.

Regarding your empty insistence on your claim that Ulsheimer's account corroborates the Benin traditions. You have not demonstrated how it does. You have only been repeating a claim. On the contrary, I have already demonstrated how Ulsheimer's account has nothing to do with Benin Tradition of settling down in Lagos by conquest. See my demonstration below one more time:

For the umpteenth time, Josua Ulsheimer’s account did NOT corroborate the Benin claim of settling-in by conquest. Nowhere does Ulsheimer's account provide any such corroboration. You may choose to stop fooling yourself by yourself. Lol.

Rather, what Josua Ulsheimer’s account corroborates here is the historical fact of conflicts in Lagos. He noted simply that the Bini side was camped on one of the islands.

Ulsheimer was writing about this in 1603 when he visited, whereas the Binis (and others) had long settled in Lagos before Ulsheimer. In sum, Ulsheimer could not possibly have witnessed the settling-in of the Binis (by conquest or otherwise). He cannot possibly witness and document what had happened prior to him.

Etinosa1234:
(3) Clearly as the name states...it was a camp... Benin didn't come to occupy the land...they came there on a mission extend their control over to the land.. Besides the Former Roman Empire...The conquered countries still kept their language...eg Israel

(3) You said "it was a camp". What do you refer to as "it"?

I hope you are not referring here to all of the then Lagos of the Aworis – including Isheri, Ebute-Metta, or Isale-Eko. However, to educate you again, Robert Smith noted that according to Ulsheimer himself, the whole of the then "Lagos was the resort of traders coming 'by water and land'." Robert Smith (1988:74).

This makes it clear that different immigrant trading groups occupied different regions of the then Lagos. The Binis (being one of these immigrant trading groups) had occupied a part of the small island now called Iddo. R. Smith (1988:73).

Ulsheimer's account of the Binis' own settlement which "lies on an island and is a frontier town, surrounded by a strong fence" (Adreas Ulshemier's Voyage of 1603-4) is obviously the same small island of Iddo where the Benin immigrant group had settled.

This (Iddo Island) walled-settlement of the Benin group which Ulsheimer noted that "soldiers and four military commanders" lived in is in fact, the oft-repeated military camp, not the whole of the then Lagos obviously.

Regarding your allusion to language, all conquered colonies throughout the world's history must have at some point adopted the language of the conqueror (even if the adopted language later fall into disuse). There is no exception to this. This is never the case with Lagos at any point in its history - a strong confirmation of the truth of the Lagos account.

Etinosa1234:
(4)Lol...A Lagos account made to save face...Ur oba of Lagos recently traced his lineage to Benin... Ashipa has been found to be a corrupted word from Benin

(4) Nope! Only the Lagos account of peaceful infiltration (rather than royal conquest) gels with the historical fact that Edo language was never a court language at any point in time in Lagos' history.

Regarding Oba Akiolu's ancestry, I have addressed this already. All you need do is form the habit of always reading what you will be replying to.

I have already stated that the present dynasty of Lagos' kings trace their ancestry to Benin – but through King Ado's Benin mother.

King Ashipa who is King Ado's father is an Awori royalty from Isheri. Therefore, the Lagos kings also trace their ancestry to Isheri – through King Ado's Awori father.

However, this situation persisted just as depicted here only up to the 5th reign. Something changed – along the line – from the 6th reign till date.

King Kutere (the 6th king) ascended the throne not by virtue of his father (who is an Ijesa 'mystic' of no royal status), but by virtue of his mother who is the daughter of King Ado. After this one-off paternal interruption, the paternal succession continued again uninterrupted from King Kutere till date.

Now, in the light of this background, it is quite understandable why all the kings from King Kutere to King Akiolu ratified the practice of not tracing their ancestry strictly paternally, but rather through the Queen Mother Kuti (daughter of King Ado and mother of King Kutere), and then to King Ado.

From King Ado, the upward line through King Ado's Benin mother is more often emphasized (than the upward line through King Ashipa which simply leads to Isheri) for obvious reasons.

These reasons being that (1) Benin Kingdom is relatively way more influential than the Isheri Kingdom, and (2) Prince Ashipa had formed his alliance with the Benin government/people during the Isale-Eko succession tussle between him and other rightful Awori prince-candidates.

It is not impossible that another rightful Awori prince-candidate had formed a similar alliance with the Isheri Kingdom during this tussle. From all these considerations, Benin Kingdom thus came to be more often emphasized in the tracing of Lagos' kings ancestry.


Regarding your attempt to link the name "Ashipa" to the Edo language (by claiming that it is originally "Esikpa" from the words "Aisika-hienbore"), the meaning of these Edo words does not support this attempt. "We shall not desert this place" can not possibly or logically refer to someone's name. This patchwork therefore falls flat on its nose.

On the other hand, the word "Ashipa" is clearly a Yoruba name which is ancient and widespread among Yoruba culture. This fact is a strong linguistic evidence which corroborates the Lagos account that the first King, “Ashipa” is indeed of Yoruba descent.

Etinosa1234:
(5)and for the umpteenth time, u failed to see where it was stated that Egharevba account was corroborate by the Josua Ulsheimer account..... Maybe until u can Understand the difference between in the island and one of the island
I'll post the pic for ur sorry ass to see

6) (i)Wow Ulsheimer was not accurate enough...So what makes u more accurate...When he came ...He found out that the Lagos was a military camp... He saw it... not that he was told...

(ii)So tell me ...Can a village set up a military camp in another man's village...if it were not through conquest... why should Benin then have the right to choose and confirm who becomes the next oba of Lagos and also collect tributes...

U can't collect tributes from a country u didn't defeat

(5) Again, Ulsheimer's account does not corroborate the Benin tradition of settling down by conquest. The Binis had settled down in Lagos before Ulsheimer's visit. He can not possibly witness what happened before him.

The only aspect of Egharevba's history arguably corroborated by Ulsheimer's are as follows:

(i) That historical fact that there was some ongoing conflicts in Lagos at the time.

(ii) The fact that the Benin fighters lived in a walled camp on an island in the region.

The following is the aspects of Egharevba's account not corroborated by Ulsheimer :

(i) That the Binis had settled in the Lagos region by conquering it.

Regarding your semantic about "the Island" or "one of the islands", I do not blame you for not knowing that the then Lagos settlement of the Aworis was not just one island. Lol.

Contrary to what you're thinking, the Awori settlement of the then Lagos is not one island. Rather, it comprises separate islands, as well as separate hinterlands. These include Isheri, Iddo (a small island), Ebute Meta, Isale-Eko (a larger island), amongst others. R. Smith (1988:73).

R. Smith makes it clear that the Binis occupied one of these islands of the then Lagos. He writes on the same page 73 of your attachment that "the Bini succeeded in establishing themselves on the Iddo Island".

(6) (i) Nope! Stop misrepresenting. I stated clearly that Ulsheimer documented what he witnessed. You on the other are claiming that Ulsheimer witnessed what had happened in Lagos before his own visit to Lagos.

Again, he came in 1603 - years after the Binis had already settled in Lagos. He could, therefore, not have possibly witnessed them settling (either by peace or conquest).

What he witnessed and documented, therefore, are their activities in their camp (which they have already settled in long before he visited) during a time of conflict in Lagos.

This is their war camp context which he documented, rather than some settling-in conquest which is not found anywhere in his account.

(ii) Regarding the background to the confirmation of Lagos kings and the remittances from Lagos to Benin, I have already discussed this in one of my comments which you've fled from. Refer again to the same comment below for your information:

The Lagos account indicates that Ashipa sought political alliance with the Benin government and immigrant group during the Lagos succession tussle between him and some other Awori princes who may have sought similar alliances elsewhere.

This indication is obvious in the account of Ashipa’s gracious feat of leading the procession that conveyed Asheru’s corpse (Asheru is a Bini who died in one of the conflicts) back to Benin. R. Smith (1988:74), S. Akintoye (2010:222).

In the light of this essential background, the actual significance of Ashipa’s remittances to his highly influential patron (i.e. the Oba of Benin) – who supported his rightful ambitions during the Lagos succession tussle – then becomes manifest.

This first practices of aligning with the influential Benin government for support in the course of the Lagos succession tussle (and which is not likely to be without returns) therefore survived into an ascension tradition that is intended to last forever for all reigns in the new Lagos dynasty.

Etinosa1234:
(7) Teacher wey nor know book...The fact that it's an impression doesn't mean that it's real

(7) Nope! I never said that R. Smith agreed with the Lagos account, neither did I say that he disagreed with it.

What I was educating you on is simply about the significance of the word "impression" in that context - viz. “conviction”, “notion”, “effect”, “depiction”, “representation”, “portrayal”, , “perception”, “impact”, etc.

In the light of this understanding, R. Smith’s statement which reads: "The impression given by Lagos tradition is that this was achieved by peaceful infiltration rather than by conquest" is therefore equivalent to saying something like:

"The Lagos tradition depicts that this was achieved by peaceful infiltration rather than by conquest"

And my original point in this regard was that R. Smith states this Lagos account. I never claimed that he passed any judgement on it.

Etinosa1234:
[s]I need to sleep now but b4 I go Lemme tell u this[/s]

(1) U don't pay annual tributes for up to 200yrs to people u claim peacefully infiltrated into your kingdom

(2) People that are not conquered do not give another village the undisputed right to choose their next oba

(3) Josua clearly states there was a military camp on the island not one of the islands as u are forcing ur self to see...

(4) U Can't set a military camp in an area without having military aims...

(5) U can't even set military camp in someone's land without expecting a fight...

(6) Take this as my potential last reply to you while u bask in the hallucination of winning any debate

(7) Lol so u have the ability to qoute a work written by a Yoruba man but still discard the one of Benin even when it was clearly stated that it was corroborated by an early account...Yeye dey smell

(1) Refer to my point (6) of my foregoing comment (as well as many other such comments) for replies to this.

(2) Refer to my point (6) of my foregoing comment (as well as many other such comments) for replies to this.

(3) In fact, the exact phrase used in his account is "an island".

Moreover, I have shown with reference to R. Smith that the specific island referred to here is the small island now called Iddo. There are many separate island making up even the then Lagos. Isale-Eko is another one.

Refer to my points (3) and (5) of my foregoing comment (as well as many other such comments) for replies to this.

(4) I am shocked that you're too blind by hatred to see that I have stated again and again that there was indeed a Bini war camp on Iddo; and that there was indeed lots of conflict going-on between the Binis (et al.) on one hand an the host (the Aworis) on another hand.

My contention which is in line with the historical realities of the time, however, is that this conflict (in relation to which the Binis' Iddo settlement came to be described as a war camp) has nothing to do with any settling-in royal conquest.

The Binis had already settled in peacefully on the Iddo Island of Lagos long before these conflicts (which resulted from trade disputes)

(5) Refer to my point (4) of this comment (as well as many other such comments) for replies to this.

(6) I don't reply to rants!

(7) The work I quoted is of an academic, Professor S. A. Akintoye -- a seasoned professor of Yoruba and African History. That particular work actually enjoyed review inputs by a galaxy of eminent scholars of Yoruba and African History such as Professor Elisee Soumonni (of the University of Benin at Abomey-Calavi), and Professor R.C.C. Law (of Stirling University, Scotland) among other eminent scholars of Yoruba and African History.

Moreover, the link you gave me is not of an academic material, but to a supposed interview with another layperson. As if that was not poor enough, grave foul-play was found in the so-called interview responses. And I pointed out that the reason for the foul play is not far-fetched as the interviewer is himself Edo.

Refer again to the point (10) of that comment to seek further clarification on this.

Contrary to what you intended to do here, I didn't dismiss the supposed interview just for the simple reason that I saw an Edo name. You need to stop straw-maning.


Appendix:
Lastly, I am aware that there are a number of interpretations to the effect that the relationship of Benin with Lagos began with a royal conquest paving way for the settling in of the Binis.

However, this interpretation fails to account for a some resulting historical facts and historical anomalies such as the following:

(a) The 1603 eyewitness account of Ulsheimer which simply describes conflict in Lagos, and with the Binis being on one side of it at their [Iddo] base. Nothing in his account actually described this conflict as an attempt by the Binis to settle in Lagos by a royal conquest.

(b) A settling-in royal conquest of Lagos by Benin would have led the royal palace of Lagos being at least bilingual (Yoruba and Edo speaking court language) at some point in Lagos' history. Whereas there is absolutely nothing of such at any point throughout Lagos history.

(c) The name "Ashipa" does not match Edo names. Ashipa whose name is clearly Yoruba cannot possibly have been a Bini prince.

Professor Akintoye has quite recently shown by a closer look at the evidence and in the light of subsequently clearer understanding that the prior interpretation lack explanatory scope and power such as for the anomalies highlighted above.

He showed that the historical realities and accounts which the Benin traditional account fails to be able to account for are actually accounted for by the Lagos account.

(i) For example, the Lagos account speaks of a peaceful settling down in Lagos by the Benins, Ijebus, the Egbas and many other groups for trade purpose.

This Lagos account is corroborated by the historical fact that Europeans had already established trading activities along much of the cost by the late-1500s. Coastal communities (and others) were attracted to the Lagos which was flourishing with the trade of European items at the time,

The Edos who are notable traders were among the immigrant communities who joined to settle in in order to more part in the coastal trade and in Lagos' particularly.

Ulsheimer's 1603 account also hinted at this when he noted, according to R. Smith, that "Lagos was the resort of traders coming 'by water and land'." Ulsheimer in Robert Smith (1988:74).

The settling down in Lagos by the Benin with the use of violence is obviously without any factor to warrant it in the light of the historical fact of the time as well as the earliest known account.

(ii) The Lagos account states that, after many immigrant trading groups (including the Bini) have long settled permanently in Lagos, some trade conflict broke out between the host and the Bini et al.

This Lagos account matches Ulsheimer's testimony who visited in the 1600 (after the groups had long settled in the 1500s) that there was ongoing conflict in Lagos and the Bini group had their base right there in the island they had apparently long settled in.

Ulsheimer's account here could not possibly be referring to a first-time quest to settle in and conquer Lagos because he was writing in 1603, and trade along the coast which naturally is the impetus for contact between cultures had been going on since the 1500s. In order words the Binis (like others) had already settled in peacefully for trade since the 1500s, and this later 1600 conflict can only possibly refer to the later trade conflict which the Lagos account speaks of.

And so forth...