Maximus69:


Jesus was called the last Adam {1Corinthians 15:45} does that makes Jehovah Adam?

You want to confuse Pastor Live now

He won't know where to start from again

Peacefullove:

.



@Highlighted , YOU LIED !!! ... Nowhere is Jesus called Almighty. I think you finally roped yourself.

Hahahaha! Another learner shows up. He says nowhere was Jesus called Almighty. Did I not tell you all to answer my simple questions so you can learn. Now answer no 2 and go back and learn.


****I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles with God. Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.




Again, watch!
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

****If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it

Peacefullove:



Again you are been mischievous , after been cornered that two people sharing titles doesnt make them of equal power, you now make a U- turn and rant above.


Jesus use of First and Last is not close to that of his Father , Let me ask : Why is Jesus and Adam called " Son of God " ??

A Son of God is a created being!!!! If a created being says He is First and last . Does that not tell a thinking human that he didnt meant Uncreated ??


I challenge you to show me where the Father is called Son of anyone.

See this learner, LMAO.
You and Maximus69, have you not heard that Jesus left his Godhead privileges and came out from the bosom of the Father where He had been hidden as one with Him since before existence, to become a son of Man like Adam.
You people should stop mixing up what he did in created existence with what He was before existence.
Only one Being, an Uncreated, can have the number First (before existence) and Last(After existence is dissolved)

Bwahahaha! People, he just said Jesus "First and Last" is different from the Father's "First and Last". LMAO.


Learner go and read my thesis #1 below and all the others to #4 so you can learn that Jesus and YAHWEH are one Being.




#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

We see that God calls himself by this number, "First and Last" and also the "Who is, was and is to come". He further calls himself, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YAHWEH is Almighty/Omnipotent. Now watch!

Rev 11:17-18 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Who is and was and is to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned

We see here that it is the same YAHWEH Almighty who sits on the throne worshipped by the same title "Who is, was and is to come". So, comparing the OT text and also the two verses in the Apocalypse, It is clear that YAHWEH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now let us find out who is this YAHWEH Almighty, The First and Last, Who is, was and is to come?
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that this same YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.


Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.


Now don't come back here until you have answers to all my three questions which must agree unanimously together.

Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD

DappaD:
I don't really blame you dumb trinitarians! Really I don't!
I blame your churches and religious groups that have chosen to adhere to ancient Babylonian doctrines and practices that started right after the construction of the Tower of Babel.
Check you'll see, all the beliefs and traditions you guys hold dear today all have roots in the false and pagan traditions of ancient Babylon.

1. Trinity - the people of ancient Babylon believed in a triune/triad of gods while Jehovah's people believed and worshiped only ONE TRUE GOD (Deuteronomy 6:4)

2. Immortality of the soul - the people of ancient Babylon believed that the human soul survives death. People carried such teachings to go and establish their own religions in other parts of the world, meanwhile the Bible clearly teaches that man is mortal and when he dies, he returns to dust (Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 , Ezekiel 18:4)

3. Spiritism which includes communicating with the dead, casting of spells etc
Among other practises in ancient Babylon, divination and sorcery were prominent facets. Today you can see people who claim to serve God consulting “Babalawo” to heal them after they claim they “prayed to God”.
Likely even, since the churches claim to have power to heal the sick and perform miracles and we know such power is not from God since the gifts of the holy spirit were done away with in the first century (1Corinthians 13:8 ) . Then it is very possible that so called pastors and healers consult other means to heal and perform miracles for their members, which will include spiritism.

The Bible clearly stated at Deuteronomy 18:9-11,

“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations.  There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead.”
So what will a supposed Christian be doing consulting native doctors and still say it's God that healed him?

4. Use of images in worship
The people of ancient Babylon did use images in worship as is confirmed at Daniel 3:1-3.
Today, we see people making images of crosses and of their “Mary the mother of God” and using such in worship. In other churches and religious groups too, you find people using stickers and pictures of their religious fathers in worship as well and hoping that such will protect them from harm.


While God's true worshipers will know that we worship Jehovah God alone and no one else.(Exodus 20:4-5, Deuteronomy 6:13-15)

There are several other false beliefs but I've named just a few

My point is, you and all the rest of your trinity cohorts have this conditioned mind. So it doesn't surprise true worshipers of God when you lot keep defending worthless beliefs and traditions.

DrLiveLogic please read the above and see where all your beliefs were derived from.
Whether you like it or not, the truth about Jehovah God is absolute. Your opinions DO NOT matter.

Peacefullove:


The issue with that Voice is , it states that when he descend with that voice , The dead will rise , question : Whose voice will the dead hear , Jesus or Another person ?

This is where it get trickier

As for Everlasting Father ... Its a title . Jesus had no children . he is our brother.

As for Mighty God , it says " He shall be called " ... Meaning he has not always been God, so you agree ? This is not the true God. Humans are also called El Gibboa

What you picked up is not my question and it's just a single case out of over 100 cases in the scriptures. That isn't my question. When my questions are answered, we will proceed to treat those verses according. Before then answer my questions.

1. Who preached Jesus as angel in the 1st or 2nd century Christians. In all existing literature and texts, show or quote one person who preaches Jesus as Angel. Let's be sure whether such ordinance was handled over by the apostles.

2. State where Jesus is called an angel in the bible. Where the bible says Jesus is an angel. He

These are my questions. Leave the others for later.

I await.

DrLiveLogic:


Hahahaha! Another learner shows up. He says nowhere was Jesus called Almighty. Did I not tell you all to answer my simple questions so you can learn. Now answer no 2 and go back and learn.


****I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles with God. Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.




Again, watch!
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

****If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it




See this learner, LMAO.
You and Maximus69, have you not heard that Jesus left his Godhead privileges and came out from the bosom of the Father where He had been hidden as one with Him since before existence, to become a son of Man like Adam.
You people should stop mixing up what he did in created existence with what He was before existence.
Only one Being, an Uncreated, can have the number First (before existence) and Last(After existence is dissolved)

Bwahahaha! People, he just said Jesus "First and Last" is different from the Father's "First and Last". LMAO.


Learner go and read my thesis #1 below and all the others to #4 so you can learn that Jesus and YAHWEH are one Being.




#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

We see that God calls himself by this number, "First and Last" and also the "Who is, was and is to come". He further calls himself, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YAHWEH is Almighty/Omnipotent. Now watch!

Rev 11:17-18 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Who is and was and is to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned

We see here that it is the same YAHWEH Almighty who sits on the throne worshipped by the same title "Who is, was and is to come". So, comparing the OT text and also the two verses in the Apocalypse, It is clear that YAHWEH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now let us find out who is this YAHWEH Almighty, The First and Last, Who is, was and is to come?
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that this same YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.


Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.


Now don't come back here until you have answers to all my three questions which must agree unanimously together.

Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD

My guy you just keep jumping from texts to text but instead of learning to know more about the personality of Jesus you just feel you've gotten it right shey!

Well i've told you to stop tagging me if you don't want to discuss on points. All what you typed up there is like child's play.

First of all, know that the book of Revelations is not just what people read like a novel, it's deeper than what you see in it.

There are many characters and each keep acting and speaking, it's only those with insight that can tell you who is who in the characters.

So if you want to prove that you understand the characters speaking in the book then you must first identify all the characters in the book, distinguish who is who then you can prove you know the voice of each one speaking as written in the book.

The quoted texts in Revelations saying i'm the first and the last, the beginning and the end is Jesus, but the one referred to as the Almighty is Jehovah not Jesus.

All these will continue to lead into more arguments, so instead of wasting people's times why not explain the symbols mentioned in the Bible book of Revelations to prove you know which character the writer is referring to with the titles?

Maximus69:


My guy you just keep jumping from texts to text but instead of learning to know more about the personality of Jesus you just feel you've gotten it right shey!

Well i've told you to stop tagging me if you don't want to discuss on points. All what you typed up there is like child's play.

First of all, know that the book of Revelations is not just what people read like a novel, it's deeper than what you see in it.

There are many characters and each keep acting and speaking, it's only those with insight that can tell you who is who in the characters.

So if you want to prove that you understand the characters speaking in the book then you must first identify all the characters in the book, distinguish who is who then you can prove you know the voice of each one speaking as written in the book.

The quoted texts in Revelations saying i'm the first and the last, the beginning and the end is Jesus, but the one referred to as the Almighty is Jehovah not Jesus.

All these will continue to lead into more arguments, so instead of wasting people's times why not explain the symbols mentioned in the Bible book of Revelations to prove you know which character the writer is referring to with the titles?

Dont you get tired my SD? don't let them drain you ooo.lol

Maximus69:


Jesus is angel Michael!

©Jesus is the only begotten son of God {John 3:16} all angels are sons of God {Job 38:7} but one is singled out as the archangel (Michael) Revelations 12:7

©Jesus is the one that came to die for our sins {Isaiah 11:10 compare to Isaiah 15:2} because he loved humans out of all the creatures God made through him {Proverbs 8:31} and the only angel mentioned to have stood for God people is called (Michael)! Daniel 12:1

©Jesus is the one God's word said will lead the heavenly armies against Satan and his forces! Revelations 12:7 compare to Matthew 25:31

©Jesus will speak with the voice of the archangel! 1Thessalonians 4:16

©Jesus always revere Jehovah as his God and Father so Michael who is the only one referred to as the archangel must be the first and greatest of all the sons of God, no other person could have such glory apart from Jesus whom the Bible referred to as God's only begotten son (Jesus)

If anyone is still in doubt of this, let him point to any peaceful and united organization on planet earth because God's word called Jesus "the Prince of Peace" {Isaiah 9:6} there is no doubt that the group having this spirit person in their midst must be known globally for their LOVE {John 13:34-35} JOY {John 15:11} and finally PEACE {John 14:27}

I hope this is all the defence you can put up.

I will take each of your defence and scriptures one by one and explain why your submission cant be right.

Rozz:
Dont you get tired my SD? don't let them drain you ooo.lol

My SB all these are just to help you if it's for them, they've proved to be deceivers of their own souls.

Whoever wants to prove anything must be ready to entertain questions, not just presenting your opinion and telling others not to question you!

hoopernikao:


I hope this is all the defence you can put up.

I will take each of your defence and scriptures one by one and explain why your submission cant be right.

My friend there are thousands of proofs that Jesus is angel Michael but when you want to learn there are certain things someone will put you through, the rest will have to be learnt through personal experience!

That Jesus is angel Michael can only be explained in few texts from the Bible, the greatest evidence is here now!

hoopernikao:


What you picked up is not my question and it's just a single case out of over 100 cases in the scriptures. That isn't my question. When my questions are answered, we will proceed to treat those verses according. Before then answer my questions.

U wanna run ?
Its actually vital. And key !!!

Whose voice will raise the dead ?

1. Who preached Jesus as angel in the 1st or 2nd century Christians. In all existing literature and texts, show or quote one person who preaches Jesus as Angel. Let's be sure whether such ordinance was handled over by the apostles.

Early church Father's like Justin Matry teach that the Angel of the Lord is the pre incarnate Christ .

" The early Fathers of the Church, such as Justin Martyr, identify the angel of the Lord as the pre-incarnate Christ whose appearance, i.e. Christophany, is recorded in the Hebrew Bible. " Wikipedia .

2. State where Jesus is called an angel in the bible. Where the bible says Jesus is an angel. He

These are my questions. Leave the others for later.

I await.

" Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts." Malachi 3:1 Darby

Who is the Angel of the covenant ?

DrLiveLogic:

[s]
Hahahaha! Another learner shows up. He says nowhere was Jesus called Almighty. Did I not tell you all to answer my simple questions so you can learn. Now answer no 2 and go back and learn.


****I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles with God. Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.




Again, watch!
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

****If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it

[/s]

Noise maker
Produce where Jesus is called Almighty, is that hard ?

See this learner, LMAO.
You and Maximus69, have you not heard that Jesus left his Godhead privileges and came out from the bosom of the Father where He had been hidden as one with Him since before existence, to become a son of Man like Adam.
You people should stop mixing up what he did in created existence with what He was before existence.
Only one Being, an Uncreated, can have the number First (before existence) and Last(After existence is dissolved)

Bwahahaha! People, he just said Jesus "First and Last" is different from the Father's "First and Last". LMAO.


Learner go and read my thesis #1 below and all the others to #4 so you can learn that Jesus and YAHWEH are one Being.




#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

We see that God calls himself by this number, "First and Last" and also the "Who is, was and is to come". He further calls himself, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YAHWEH is Almighty/Omnipotent. Now watch!

Rev 11:17-18 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Who is and was and is to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned

We see here that it is the same YAHWEH Almighty who sits on the throne worshipped by the same title "Who is, was and is to come". So, comparing the OT text and also the two verses in the Apocalypse, It is clear that YAHWEH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now let us find out who is this YAHWEH Almighty, The First and Last, Who is, was and is to come?
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that this same YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.


Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.


Now don't come back here until you have answers to all my three questions which must agree unanimously together.

Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD

Adam is a Son of God because he was created by God.

If Jesus is UNCreated , He cant be a Son of God . when a Created being used First and Last , a thinking brain knows its totally different from the Father..


I challenge you to show me where the Father is called Son of anyone.

Maximus69:


Jesus is angel Michael!

©Jesus is the only begotten son of God {John 3:16} all angels are sons of God {Job 38:7} but one is singled out as the archangel (Michael) Revelations 12:7

WHO ARE THOSE CALLED SONS OF GOD IN SCRIPTURES
Firstly, being called the son of God isnt a strange thing in the bible. Note that even though you pointed out that angels were called sons of God, you refused to also show us that there are other instances when other creatures were called son.

1. Adam was called "son of God" Luke 3:38 38 ... which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

We cant from this conclude that Adam was an angel nor say Adam was Jesus.

2. The Psalmist referred to some humans as "sons of God"
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

These arent angels, neither were they Jesus. So, stating that Jesus is called son of God means he is an angel is just an error of interpretation.

3. Christians/Believers were called "sons of God". Based on your submission, can we also conclude that every believer is an angel in heaven? since they are sons of God?

The phrase "sons of God" were not exclusive but must be interpreted in context.

Observe that the usage of "sons of God" for angels ended in OT. There is a reason for that. In NT we have the true light.

Hebrews says, God has not at anytime called ANY ANGEL SON.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

That stand in contradiction to the writers of the OT, yet not contradiction but better light. No angel has been called or referred to as son by God, Hence, that remove Jesus from that list of angels because he was called "son"


Why Are These Called The Sons of God?
The statement "sons of God" does not always mean a birth. It simply implies that these "comes from God". It is a term that identify those that are known to be sent from God. In OT context, this is the reason it was used for angels. Same as used for Adam.

For Believers, it refers to being come from God due to our identification with Christ. This also signify a birth from the spirit just as Jesus (John 3:5)


WHY WAS JESUS CALLED THE SON OF GOD

When you called Jesus son of God, you must understand its context. The context of Jesus as son of God is always referring from his humanity not his divinity.

Luke 1:31-32
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Observe verse 34-35
He is called son because he was to be born. That isnt a name from heaven, but signifying that he was born by the HolyGhost.
He came from God.


WHY THE ONLY BEGOTTEN?
The word "only begotten" is a single word from the Greek word "monogenes". Referring to only child. Note that this comes from two words:

"mono" which means only, one., alone
"genes" from "ginomai" The word "ginomai" implies to come from, to come into existence.

Hence, monogenes will implies "the only one who came into existence from God", i.e. the one who came to being from God, referring to his birth.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

Observe that later in the epistles, Jesus was now referred mostly to as "first begotten", typifying that there are others which refers to believers in Christ.

Hence, in birth he was the only begotten, in resurrection, he was the first begotten.

In conclusion. there is no platform of justifying Jesus as angel in this context of "son of God". If we are to take everyone called sons of God in the bible as angels, then we will take Adam as angel, Children of Israelite as angels, believers as angels and that will mean we are all angels moving about on earth. This premise is false and such a an error of doctrine.

Peacefullove:

Noise maker
Produce where Jesus is called Almighty, is that hard ?
Adam is a Son of God because he was created by God.
If Jesus is UNCreated , He cant be a Son of God . when a Created being used First and Last , a thinking brain knows its totally different from the Father..
I challenge you to show me where the Father is called Son of anyone.

Jesus said "I'm using earthly things (that you're used to) to teach you yet you failed to grasp it, how do you expect to grasp heavenly things (that you've never seen before)?" John 3:12

Father and Son that we humans know perfectly well that they're never of the same ranking!

God's word never used words like twins or triplets to describe the relationship between Jehovah and Jesus because we know that twins or triplets are born the same day, so they regard themselves as equals.

But Father and Son, na wa o!

hoopernikao:


WHO ARE THOSE CALLED SONS OF GOD IN SCRIPTURES
Firstly, being called the son of God isnt a strange thing in the bible. Note that even though you pointed out that angels were called sons of God, you refused to also show us that there are other instances when other creatures were called son.

1. Adam was called "son of God" Luke 3:38 38 ... which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

We cant from this conclude that Adam was an angel nor say Adam was Jesus.

2. The Psalmist referred to some humans as "sons of God"
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

These arent angels, neither were they Jesus. So, stating that Jesus is called son of God means he is an angel is just an error of interpretation.

3. Christians/Believers were called "sons of God". Based on your submission, can we also conclude that every believer is an angel in heaven? since they are sons of God?

The phrase "sons of God" were not exclusive but must be interpreted in context.

Observe that the usage of "sons of God" for angels ended in OT. There is a reason for that. In NT we have the true light.

Hebrews says, God has not at anytime called ANY ANGEL SON.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

That stand in contradiction to the writers of the OT, yet not contradiction but better light. No angel has been called or referred to as son by God, Hence, that remove Jesus from that list of angels because he was called "son"


Why Are These Called The Sons of God?
The statement "sons of God" does not always mean a birth. It simply implies that these "comes from God". It is a term that identify those that are known to be sent from God. In OT context, this is the reason it was used for angels. Same as used for Adam.

For Believers, it refers to being come from God due to our identification with Christ. This also signify a birth from the spirit just as Jesus (John 3:5)


WHY WAS JESUS CALLED THE SON OF GOD

When you called Jesus son of God, you must understand its context. The context of Jesus as son of God is always referring from his humanity not his divinity.

Luke 1:31-32
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Observe verse 34-35
He is called son because he was to be born. That isnt a name from heaven, but signifying that he was born by the HolyGhost.
He came from God.


WHY THE ONLY BEGOTTEN?
The word "only begotten" is a single word from the Greek word "monogenes". Referring to only child. Note that this comes from two words:

"mono" which means only, one., alone
"genes" from "ginomai" The word "ginomai" implies to come from, to come into existence.

Hence, monogenes will implies "the only one who came into existence from God", i.e. the one who came to being from God, referring to his birth.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

Observe that later in the epistles, Jesus was now referred mostly to as "first begotten", typifying that there are others which refers to believers in Christ.

Hence, in birth he was the only begotten, in resurrection, he was the first begotten.

In conclusion. there is no platform of justifying Jesus as angel in this context of "son of God". If we are to take everyone called sons of God in the bible as angels, then we will take Adam as angel, Children of Israelite as angels, believers as angels and that will mean we are all angels moving about on earth. This premise is false and such a an error of doctrine.

In a nutshell, when we hear the word Father and Son it simply means one caused the birth of the other! Proverbs 8:22

So angels o, humans o all are God's children because we all came into existence because of his will.
Also Jesus referred to as God's Son simply means he was born (created){Colossians 1:15} by the same father!

Maximus69:


Jesus is angel Michael!

©Jesus is the one that came to die for our sins {Isaiah 11:10 compare to Isaiah 15:2} because he loved humans out of all the creatures God made through him {Proverbs 8:31} and the only angel mentioned to have stood for God people is called (Michael)! Daniel 12:

How you saw Jesus in Proverb 8:31 will be a mystery and an error of not staying to what is written. No single reference in this verse to Jesus. If we all take scriptures like this, we will all be in un-redeemable error.

Always stay in context of discussion. The greatest of all error are birthed from eisegesis like this. Proverb 8:31 is not referring to Jesus.

Likewise, your explanation here is with all scriptures you quoted are just juxtaposing as your brothers said i should do earlier.

Take note of this VERY IMPORTANTLY, there is no scriptures that refer to "love of Jesus, or Jesus loves the world" when speaking about his sacrifice and death. What scripture teaches is "God loves", "The love of God" is what gave the sacrifice. John 3:16, 1 John 4:19-21, Ephes 2:4-8, Romans 5:8.

All speaks about God's love and sacrifice of Jesus. You must understand the difference.

So, your above submission seems to be most out of context in all you listed. It doesnt even have a basis for discussion.

hoopernikao:


How you saw Jesus in Proverb 8:31 will be a mystery and an error of not staying to what is written. No single reference in this verse to Jesus. If we all take scriptures like this, we will all be in un-redeemable error.

Always stay in context of discussion. The greatest of all error are birthed from eisegesis like this. Proverb 8:31 is not referring to Jesus.

Likewise, your explanation here is with all scriptures you quoted are just juxtaposing as your brothers said i should do earlier.

Take note of this VERY IMPORTANTLY, there is no scriptures that refer to "love of Jesus, or Jesus loves the world" when speaking about his sacrifice and death. What scripture teaches is "God loves", "The love of God" is what gave the sacrifice. John 3:16, 1 John 4:19-21, Ephes 2:4-8, Romans 5:8.

All speaks about God's love and sacrifice of Jesus. You must understand the difference.

So, your above submission seems to be most out of context in all you listed. It doesnt even have a basis for discussion.

So who was Proverbs 8:22-31 referring to?

You guys just like arguing blindly!

So if you read the OT texts the disciples quoted and applied to Jesus you will read from the chapter from beginning to the end shey?
OK try to read Isaiah 9 from the beginning to the end and try to correlate everything to see if you will be able to convince a Pharisee in the first century that verse 6 refers to the carpenter's son!

Maximus69:


In a nutshell, when we hear the word Father and Son it simply means one caused the birth of the other! Proverbs 8:22

So angels o, humans o all are God's children because we all came into existence because of his will.
Also Jesus referred to as God's Son simply means he was born (created){Colossians 1:15} by the same father!

Firstly, read my last submission. Usage of Proverb 8:22 to refer to Jesus is a big error of doctrine. It simply means lifting scriptures out of its context. Let us stay with bible context in explanation.

Secondly, i am not sure you read what i wrote properly. It is well explained there. I guess you are reading what you want to read.

I have pointed you to where the essence of calling Jesus son of God came from. It isnt referring to creation but his humanity.

If i go by your premise, it simply means anything God created is son, angels, Adam, evil man, good man, even animals, Satan etc. We are all God;'s creation. This will be error. A word in a text should derive its meaning from surrounding text. No where does the usage of Son for Jesus referring to his creation or his divinity but his birth in the flesh only. He became son (humanity) for you and I.

Maximus69:


My SB all these are just to help you if it's for them, they've proved to be deceivers of their own souls.

Whoever wants to prove anything must be ready to entertain questions, not just presenting your opinion and telling others not to question you!

ok but don't let them stress you for me ooo

hoopernikao:


Firstly, read my last submission. Usage of Proverb 8:22 to refer to Jesus is a big error of doctrine. It simply means lifting scriptures out of its context. Let us stay with bible context in explanation.

Secondly, i am not sure you read what i wrote properly. It is well explained there. I guess you are reading what you want to read.

I have pointed you to where the essence of calling Jesus son of God came from. It isnt referring to creation but his humanity.

If i go by your premise, it simply means anything God created is son, angels, Adam, evil man, good man, even animals, Satan etc. We are all God;'s creation. This will be error. A word in a text should derive its meaning from surrounding text. No where does the usage of Son for Jesus referring to his creation or his divinity but his birth in the flesh only. He became son (humanity) for you and I.

The first born of all creations means he was born (created) before anything else Sir! Colossians 1:15

Peacefullove:

U wanna run ?
Its actually vital. And key !!!

Whose voice will raise the dead ?



Early church Father's like Justin Matry teach that the Angel of the Lord is the pre incarnate Christ .

" The early Fathers of the Church, such as Justin Martyr, identify the angel of the Lord as the pre-incarnate Christ whose appearance, i.e. Christophany, is recorded in the Hebrew Bible. " Wikipedia .



" Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts." Malachi 3:1 Darby

Who is the Angel of the covenant ?

Are you aware the Angel of the Lord in the old testament is Yahweh

Maximus69:


So who was Proverbs 8:22-31 referring to?

You guys just like arguing blindly!

So if you read the OT texts the disciples quoted and applied to Jesus you will read from the chapter from beginning to the end shey?
OK try to read Isaiah 9 from the beginning to the end and try to correlate everything to see if you will be able to convince a Pharisee in the first century that verse 6 refers to the carpenter's son!

You are the one that will need to read again and again while also staying with Bible naration. You cant be assuming for the bible. You were the one assuming Prov 8 speaking about Jesus, and it is obvious that its to defend your stand.

Like i told you Proverb 8 never mentioned Jesus, you read that in. Or is it there? You read it in to support your point. That is exactly what is called eisegesis.


Who was Proverbs 8:22-31 referring to? No you should ask, what is Proverbs 8:22-31 saying.

The fact that you are seeing who there will always affect your interpretation. Giving human attribute to abstract thing doesnt mean it turned to who.


The word[b] wisdom[/b] was used about 222 times in the bible, by context it wasnt called human anywhere, but a virtue. Why will you get to Proverb and turn it to Jesus when he was not even mentioned.

What you read in Prov 8 is called Personification in English.

Personification: the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something non-human, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form.

The writer is using language of literature to explain God's wisdom in creation. That isnt a person except you put it to be one.

We have examples of personification in the Bible.

Sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you. (Gen. 4:7) Who is sin then?
Sin wrought in me. (Rom. 7:
Sin is a Master. (Rom. 6:14) Is sin a person?
Law of Sin waging war. (Rom. 7:23)
Let not Sin reign in your body, that ye should obey it. (Rom. 6:12)

Jesus called money Master Matthew 6:24

Personification are part of literature and you wont take each time it is used to mean a person or human. We shouldnt lose our reading mind when reading the Bible. The text are simple and easy, dont let us complicate it.

Rozz:
ok but don't let them stress you for me ooo

They're just dancing round the circus!

The most important questions they're all running away from is still there unanswered!

Where do you worship?

Or

Where do you learn what you're saying?

This question is important because it will help others to know where they can become better Bible students like you.

The second question:

What is your own Church definition of TRINITY?

So that we can learn from you. PERIOD

It's not about what JWs believe against what all the other religions claiming Christians believe, that's another topic entirely not TRINITY!

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if he was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?

John 1:1–3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Colossians 1:15–16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Psalm 2:6, 7
“Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You.’”
Hebrews 1:5, 6
For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “ I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
Off the cuff, the first thing that needs to be established is that Christ is the Creator God as these passages reveal. Otherwise, Christ would have been the uncreated creator of the resultant created being, which is obviously illogical!

The alleged contradiction results from an improper understanding of the phrase “firstborn over all of creation” and the meaning and date of the “begetting.” Do these really mean the “first created entity” at a time near Creation, which some claim is implied here? Absolutely not. A Christian apologist has even pointed out that there is a Greek word for “first created,” and it was not used in this instance.1

The context of the Psalms and Hebrews passages is clearly of the time of Jesus’ ministry on earth, indicating his incarnation some 2000 years ago, not the Beginning or not an alleged beginning to His actual existence.

And consider this passage:

Psalm 89:20, 27
I have found My servant David; With My holy oil I have anointed him. . . . Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.
Take notice how David has been allotted the position of firstborn! However, David was the youngest—and not the firstborn—of Jesse, his father; the firstborn was Eliab as indicated in 1 Samuel 17:13. Take notice in Psalm 89:27 how God assigns this title. Consider also Ephraim’s inheritance of the title of firstborn (Jeremiah 31:9), even though he was the younger (Genesis 41:51–52).

Like David and Ephraim, Jesus also received this title. David and Ephraim were obviously not the first created entities, and so it would be illogical to make the claim that Jesus was created due merely to the endowment of this titleship. Hence, there is no contradiction. Jesus is both the Creator and the One who inherited this elite title.

hoopernikao:


You are the one that will need to read again and again while also staying with Bible naration. You cant be assuming for the bible. You were the one assuming Prov 8 speaking about Jesus, and it is obvious that its to defend your stand.

Like i told you Proverb 8 never mentioned Jesus, you read that in. Or is it there? You read it in to support your point. That is exactly what is called eisegesis.


Who was Proverbs 8:22-31 referring to? No you should ask, what is Proverbs 8:22-31 saying.

The fact that you are seeing who there will always affect your interpretation. Giving human attribute to abstract thing doesnt mean it turned to who.


The word[b] wisdom[/b] was used about 222 times in the bible, by context it wasnt called human anywhere, but a virtue. Why will you get to Proverb and turn it to Jesus when he was not even mentioned.

What you read in Prov 8 is called Personification in English.

Personification: the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something non-human, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form.

The writer is using language of literature to explain God's wisdom in creation. That isnt a person except you put it to be one.

We have examples of personification in the Bible.

Sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you. (Gen. 4:7) Who is sin then?
Sin wrought in me. (Rom. 7:
Sin is a Master. (Rom. 6:14) Is sin a person?
Law of Sin waging war. (Rom. 7:23)
Let not Sin reign in your body, that ye should obey it. (Rom. 6:12)

Jesus called money Master Matthew 6:24

Personification are part of literature and you wont take each time it is used to mean a person or human. We shouldnt lose our reading mind when reading the Bible. The text are simple and easy, dont let us complicate it.

Walahi Talahi TRINITY is worse than Covid19!

So the one saying what we read from Proverbs 8:22-31 is not a person shey?

Well thanks for your explanation Sir, fa fa fa foul!

Proverbs 8:22-31 fully explains what we found in the Bible book of John 1:1-3

In the beginning WAS the word, and the word WAS with God and the word WAS God. This is the same person that was with God from the beginning. All things were created through him and apart from his involvement nothing was created

Verse 31 says of all that God created through this person, he loves humans most, so when God said in the heavens amongst his children "who will go for us?" It was this person that responded "here i am, send me" because of the love he had for humans from the beginning! Isaiah 6:8-10
Of course you may like to ask how does this verse relate with Jesus, so read what Jesus said in the Bible book of Matthew 13:15

So when we quote Bible verses regarding our Master, Lord and King. Forget that level Sir, we are learning from the right source so we can show you what we believe in the scriptures. Granted you may not agree but that's not our cup of coffee.
Go and make use of what you're learning and let the world see the fruitage in your gathering! Matthew 7:16-18

people are just twisting and misinterpreting verses to suit their belief.May God guide us all.

solite3:
How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if he was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?

John 1:1–3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Colossians 1:15–16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Psalm 2:6, 7
“Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You.’”
Hebrews 1:5, 6
For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “ I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
Off the cuff, the first thing that needs to be established is that Christ is the Creator God as these passages reveal. Otherwise, Christ would have been the uncreated creator of the resultant created being, which is obviously illogical!

The alleged contradiction results from an improper understanding of the phrase “firstborn over all of creation” and the meaning and date of the “begetting.” Do these really mean the “first created entity” at a time near Creation, which some claim is implied here? Absolutely not. A Christian apologist has even pointed out that there is a Greek word for “first created,” and it was not used in this instance.1

The context of the Psalms and Hebrews passages is clearly of the time of Jesus’ ministry on earth, indicating his incarnation some 2000 years ago, not the Beginning or not an alleged beginning to His actual existence.

And consider this passage:

Psalm 89:20, 27
I have found My servant David; With My holy oil I have anointed him. . . . Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.
Take notice how David has been allotted the position of firstborn! However, David was the youngest—and not the firstborn—of Jesse, his father; the firstborn was Eliab as indicated in 1 Samuel 17:13. Take notice in Psalm 89:27 how God assigns this title. Consider also Ephraim’s inheritance of the title of firstborn (Jeremiah 31:9), even though he was the younger (Genesis 41:51–52).

Like David and Ephraim, Jesus also received this title. David and Ephraim were obviously not the first created entities, and so it would be illogical to make the claim that Jesus was created due merely to the endowment of this titleship. Hence, there is no contradiction. Jesus is both the Creator and the One who inherited this elite title.

Ogbeni, what is the result of the TRINITY confusion between you and your cohort DrLiveLogic?

You said "Jesus is not the same person as Jehovah"

Your cohort said "Jesus is the same person called Jehovah"

So let's settle that first before you come up with another confusion!

Peacefullove:

Noise maker
Produce where Jesus is called Almighty, is that hard ?

Do you realize you're making a fool of yourself before everyone. Is it blindness or inability to comprehend things? Can you read no 2 slowly now..

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) We can see from the above that Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty?

Peacefullove:

Adam is a Son of God because he was created by God.

If Jesus is UNCreated , He cant be a Son of God . when a Created being used First and Last , a thinking brain knows its totally different from the Father..


I challenge you to show me where the Father is called Son of anyone.

Did you not read this before, oga stop going in circles.

....have you not heard that Jesus left his Godhead privileges and came out from the bosom of the Father where He had been inside as one with Him since before existence, to become a son of Man like Adam.
You people should learn to distinguish what he did in created existence as son of Man from who He was before existence as God/Logos of God.
Clearly, Only one Being, the Uncreated, can have the number First (before existence) and Last(After existence is dissolved) at the same time.

Listen, chap! If you know you don't have the answers to my three questions, let's wait for your friends to come help you. Don't waste people's time with rigmaroles.
My 3 questions are simply meat for you all to chew so I can test the strength of your teeth and so far you're all tripping over yourselves. I am still coming with other questions that are like bones when you finally can chew the meat. LMAO.

Rozz:
people are just twisting and misinterpreting verses to suit their belief.May God guide us all.

Hello. If you wanted God to guide us all, why open a thread? And if you said you want to just learn, why are you yet to answer my question on the three states of water? Did you not see it?




Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, Peacefullove, DappaD

Rozz:
people are just twisting and misinterpreting verses to suit their belief.May God guide us all.

My dear it's very easy to expose their hide out!

The title "GOD" simply means "Supreme Being", so for humans to prove they're worshipers of God there must be unity in thought, that's the only way they can be orderly. Because the one who is Supreme supposed to set the standard so that all his worshipers can be identified as they're living in harmony with the standards set by their GOD.

That's why none of them is bold enough to say "this is the name of my church" because with that you'll know exactly what to ask them regarding the standard of the God they worship.

So because they're all workers of iniquity, they can't mention the name of their Church, so that you won't bring their useless doctrines to the light! John 3:19

Maximus69:


Ogbeni, what is the result of the TRINITY confusion between you and your cohort DrLiveLogic?

You said "Jesus is not the same person as Jehovah"

Your cohort said "Jesus is the same person called Jehovah"

So let's settle that first before you come up with another confusion!

Hopeless diversions. I ain't that dumb.

DrLiveLogic:

I have told him by persons can be meant different individual states/aspects of one Being (substance).
But Maximus69 is desperately looking for how he can divert the thread from three innocent questions I asked him. LMAO

solite3:
they know what they are doing, they are not ready to hear the truth but just to mislead others.

DrLiveLogic:

Yes he didn't. Let me clarify that. He gave up his privileges of Omnipotence is what I mean while retaining His nature/character as God.
Thnx.

solite3:
yes of course, he limited himself to his human nature but his disciples and others could still see his divinity.

Now go back and answer the three questions without further ado and distractions. Face me and stop all your running. LMAO

Maximus69:


The first born of all creations means he was born (created) before anything else Sir! Colossians 1:15

You may need to check record and history of our chat. You and I with your brethren have discussed this at lenght before. I wouldnt be giving such indepth explanation here as distraction, you can revisit the thread "Jesus Is God.See" by preciousgirl.


To paraphrase the conclusion.

Always read and explain in context, you like giving meaning to words out of its context. I told you that the word firstborn "protopokos", will not always be referring to creation or birth. It simply means to bring forth.

Note also, that context of Col 1:15 must be read together from 14 -18. Verse 18 also used the same word "firstborn" referring to him resurrection. First from the dead.

Verse 15 set out the essence by first stating "He is the image of the invisible God".

When image is used understand what it means. It is to carry thoughts, likeness, the very essence of God usually in natural. The firstborn in 15 cannot be interpreted outside that first phrase "image of".

Note that image will represent the physical symbol of what is not seen. E.g image of idols, image of Satan etc. A representative, that others can see and take to. The image of the invisible God, that is, the one and only one who others will take to. The reason he used firstborn.

Observe that in all usage of firstborn for Jesus, it refers to a model, refers to his existence in human.

Col 1:18 the firstborn from the dead
Heb 1:6 when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world
Heb 12:23 general assembly and church of the firstborn
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead

See also Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

A model son, the first to come from God referring to humanity, Firstborn, first to come from. The word "of every" in verse 15 is "over all".

Reading to verse 18, showed you he is firstborn from the dead. Death didnt gave birth, it means he came from. The first to came from place of the dead.

So, read well in context, it speaks about his humanity as per God's plan, his divinity as per creation and then his humanity as per resurrection.

You shouldnt be interpreting out of context of explanation. Always read at least the paragraph of discussion.

DrLiveLogic:

Hopeless diversions. I ain't that dumb.Now go back and answer the three questions without further ado and distractions. Face me and stop all your running. LMAO

Wetin concern me for your shamelessness?

Guy, you and your cohorts have been often ashamed of your lawless shrines you call Church so we've helped you to keep that one inside the cooler.
But your arrogance can't save you from the quagmire you're in right now.

In your own definition of TRINITY you said

"Jesus is Jehovah"

But your brother Solite3 said
"Jesus is not the same person as Jehovah"

So let's know the outcome of your family meeting on your TRINITY God before further noisemaking Sir, or stop mentioning me.

And stop mentioning my SB (Rozz) you can't drag her along with your shameless show of hypocrisy, she never claim to be a pastor but a learner. So present your totori and allow her use her God's given brains to discern what to do!

hoopernikao:


You may need to check record and history of our chat. You and I with your brethren have discussed this at lenght before. I wouldnt be giving such indepth explanation here as distraction, you can revisit the thread "Jesus Is God.See" by preciousgirl.


To paraphrase the conclusion.

Always read and explain in context, you like giving meaning to words out of its context. I told you that the word firstborn "protopokos", will not always be referring to creation or birth. It simply means to bring forth.

Note also, that context of Col 1:15 must be read together from 14 -18. Verse 18 also used the same word "firstborn" referring to him resurrection. First from the dead.

Verse 15 set out the essence by first stating "He is the image of the invisible God".

When image is used understand what it means. It is to carry thoughts, likeness, the very essence of God usually in natural. The firstborn in 15 cannot be interpreted outside that first phrase "image of".

Note that image will represent the physical symbol of what is not seen. E.g image of idols, image of Satan etc. A representative, that others can see and take to. The image of the invisible God, that is, the one and only one who others will take to. The reason he used firstborn.

Observe that in all usage of firstborn for Jesus, it refers to a model, refers to his existence in human.

Col 1:18 the firstborn from the dead
Heb 1:6 when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world
Heb 12:23 general assembly and church of the firstborn
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead

See also Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

A model son, the first to come from God referring to humanity, Firstborn, first to come from. The word "of every" in verse 15 is "over all".

Reading to verse 18, showed you he is firstborn from the dead. Death didnt gave birth, it means he came from. The first to came from place of the dead.

So, read well in context, it speaks about his humanity as per God's plan, his divinity as per creation and then his humanity as per resurrection.

You shouldnt be interpreting out of context of explanation. Always read at least the paragraph of discussion.

Ogbeni me i hate long story for TV o~ Acadia (Startime)

Just go straight to the point.

The title "firstBORN" is self explanatory, so this person remains a creature as long as the word BORN is applied!