missjekyll:
Justwise

I am a bit surprised at you to be honest. A very wise person once said the more I learn ,the more I realise I know nothing.

Stand down please. Everyone is working from home.Websites are not getting updated as frequently. Not everything can be found on the internet anymore. I have it on good authority that the travel documents were perfectly in order. 56 of them had visa waivers. 2 had valid visas.

Learn to leave room for dissenting opinions. Even Priti Patel the home secretary wont argue the way you are arguing here

You can never learn when you believe anything without seeing an evidence, yes people work from home and website get updated from home as well.

1. If their papers were in order as you stated then why were they not allowed to travel?

2. The health care recruitment agent can not give them visa waiver letter as many of you here have stated..only the UKBA can give such letter( Honestly i have never heard of such letter as regards to Nigerians)

3. How can a recruitment agent charter a flight, land in Nigeria to pick up 58 Nigerians without the consent of Nigerian govt or even the immigration authority?

Punch newpaper reported and i quote : The NIS Spokesman, Sunday James, said in a statement on Friday that the doctors claimed to be going for training but had no visas

Does that make sense to you?

fairfora:
you're the one something is wrong with because of your shallow reasoning. . The arrangement under which they wanted to travel was legit. There was an international flight arrangement for them. They had travel documents covering their trip. Do you think a dullard can qualify as a medical doctor? They must have fulfilled all the necessary travel requirements before proceeding to the airport. In this covid-19 era, which embassy would be open to give you visa? The NIS never said they were traveling illegally. They said they might be repatriated on arrival in the UK, which isn't true. The fact remains they never wanted them to leave Nigeria, simple. That would have been a slap in the face of our government and the news would have been a subject of global discussion. Covid-19 related benefits and loans would be cancelled for Nigeria because this it the time the government ought to have recruited more health workers, now that the case is rising and not losing them. I know of 2 Nigerians who travelled recently without valid visa. The ravel documents they possessed were genuine and sent from the home office. One a medical doctor and the other a staff of WHO. They weren't sent back at the port of entry.

One of us , you or me is definitely a shallow thinker or doesn’t think at all.

If the UK government wanted these Doctors to be exempted from visa requirements, it would be easy for the UK immigration service to make this request to the Nigerian Government and I’m sure it would have been honored.

I don’t know why you’re so pained because an international standard operating procedure is upheld.

The fact that you know two Nigerians that travelled without a visa does not make that action valid. You are just in a position to know offenders , that’s all.

They should travel to Ghana and fly out from there since they are sure of getting visas on arrival.

I dont understand how we reason.

If those doctors had traveled, they will shout "NIS/Nigeria is very corrupt. They allowed people travel without travel visas". They did their jobs properly and stopped them from traveling and they are still complaining.

How can a country (or private agency)conspire to take 58 doctors from another country in the midst of a global pandemic.

Dem don see Nigeria finish, i swear.

AnanseK:


One of us , you or me is definitely a shallow thinker or doesn’t think at all.

If the UK government wanted these Doctors to be exempted from visa requirements, it would be easy for the UK immigration service to make this request to the Nigerian Government and I’m sure it would have been honored.

I don’t know why you’re so pained because the an international standard operating procedure is upheld.

The fact that you know two Nigerians that travelled without a visa does not make that action valid. You are just in a position to know offenders , that’s all.

I cannot blame any Nigerian medical professional for fleeing the country. A good number of them are fleeing from mental, psychological and emotional torture as opposed to chasing better renumeration. Many years back, I came to understand what a physician goes through in government owned hospitals in Nigeria. Medical professionals are forced to play God. The power of life and death literally lies in their hands. I had several conversations with physicians who moved to the U.S. many years ago and some of them wept at their experiences. There are no basic facilities, supplies or equipment. Often times, the physician has to pay for or stand as a guarantor for essential supplies like oxygen, medications etc that are needed for a vastly impoverished patient population. Imagine having to make a decision as to who's medications or services you will pay for out of your own pocket, knowing fully well that those that do not get the essential care will die if you don't step up. Their resources are limited and they have their own family to care for. The rich, connected and influential all go to private hospitals or seek medical service abroad. Many of our medical professionals are deeply troubled by what happens at work. A good number have hardened their hearts and don't care anymore due to the endless number of deaths they have to witness. Those that can't stand it have to flee the country or look for another profession.
In the U.S., we have witnessed a number of physician suicides during the covid crises as a result of the high death rates and patient suffering they experienced in that short period of time. Imagine having to experience this on a daily basis.
I wish those 52 physicians the best and hope they succeed in escaping the mental torture they are subject to at their places of work.

Justwise,

You are not feigning this. You won't move on while getting the credits. Let me start with a couple in your Western world from your America, the Continent.

1. Alaska

2. NWT in Canada

3. Mississippi

4. Louisiana

5. Indian Reserves across the Continent.

Actually most of the Southern states. Some Nigerians willing to make less money started Group Practice in some of them.

Justwise please fill in the ones in Britain Indian doctors are fighting for.

I had no intention of going this far with you. Omo Baba Olowo.

justwise:


You are good at making allegations with no evidence to back them up.

Like i said before..mention those remote areas in the UK or western countries where foreign doctors are maltreated as you clamined [/quote

Mancala,

Believe this or not. You could be talking about Canadian doctors too. Many of those that moved to United States relocated back to Canada after a few years. Why?

There are no basic facilities, supplies or equipment. Often times, the physician has to pay for or stand as a guarantor for essential supplies like oxygen, medications etc that are needed for a vastly impoverished patient population. Imagine having to make a decision as to who's medications or services you will pay for out of your own pocket, knowing fully well that those that do not get the essential care will die if you don't step up.

It is even worse right now in the Southern States in the face of covid19. US Doctors come crying on TV.

laiperi:
Justwise,

You are not feigning this. You won't move on while getting the credits. Let me start with a couple in your Western world from your America, the Continent.

1. Alaska

2. NWT in Canada

3. Mississippi

4. Louisiana

5. Indian Reserves across the Continent.

Actually most of the Southern states. Some Nigerians willing to make less money started Group Practice in some of them.

Justwise please fill in the ones in Britain Indian doctors are fighting for.

I had no intention of going this far with you. Omo Baba Olowo.



Mancala,

Believe this or not. You could be talking about Canadian doctors too. Many of those that moved to United States relocated back to Canada after a few years. Why?




It is even worse right now in the Southern States in the face of covid19. US Doctors come crying on TV.

This is what you called an evidence of foreign doctors being maltreated? No wonder it took you this long to come up with.

Dude there is nothing there to see,

Justwise,

I don't blame you.
I actually gave you more attention than you deserve.

Golan007:



Professors invested in MMM.

Tell me another story.

https://punchng.com/nigerian-doctors-stopped-at-lagos-airport-promised-millions-by-uk-firm/?amp=1

An update on this.

I think Nigerians must realize that the grass is greener on the other side is in the eyes of the beholder. American doctors cannot believe what they are going through right now. Most of the doctors that die from covid19 in UK are foreigners.

For those of you that were around in the 80s, while some of us were crying that Nigeria was going down, foreigners from all over the world made Nigeria their home. Even Gowon once boasted that money was not the problem but how to spend it. So money is relative. Canadian doctors found that out the hard way in the States. Nigeria got richer and the people got poorer.

Until the children of the privileged join this fight against their parents that are in charge, it will be difficult to make headway.

Those children of the rich can afford to live anywhere. Even in Nigeria, they live in a different world.

The serious but funny part is their children will not come back and live in Nigeria. When their parents die, those children will come for a few days for burial and go back. Their line of the families will disappear forever.

justwise:
[/b]

So why were they not allowed to travel then since such arrangement were made? NIS not aware of that?

Could be their overzealous behavior. They will still travel soon. Once NIS stops being backward.

blank:


Could be their overzealous behavior. They will still travel soon. Once NIS stops being backward.

How exactly? They should have been allowed to board without visa? Or you believe the visa waiver thing?

Relatively speaking, the practice of medicine in the U.S. is still "luxurious" in the worst of times compared to Nigeria. American docs were overwhelmed at the start of the covid crisis due to situations like insufficient PPE and hospital beds in isolation/negative pressure wards as well as insufficient ventilators, all temporary in nature. These are everyday permanent occurrences in a place like Nigeria. A patient has to provide pretty much everything for themselves. I recall a case where a baby was born prematurely and needed to be in an incubator. The parents had to pay to repair the only available incubator then bring a generator from home to keep it going. A collection was taken everyday to buy gasoline to run it.
"Even Gowon once boasted that money is not the problem but how to spend it" Theirein lies one singular problem of the average Nigerian in power. A lack of foresight and imagination!

Mancala,

You are quite right and on point. But remember that as young doctors cry, poorer Nigerians bleed. Africa is a harder place than ever. We will not solve the problem by running away.

I would like to know how you feel about those who left big money, position and comfort to head home. Money is not everything.

I mentioned in one of my posts how the small towns and villagers shower doctors with kindness to get them to stay after NYSC. Some did, some left.

Then our endurance has a limit. No one should go into medicine without. Actually, that was the reason they used to make young doctors work those crazy hours. It is slave labor and many countries have reduced it.

So I totally agree with you on the arduous tasks of doctors. But paying out of pocket, choice of medicine or none and who gets treated is not limited to Nigeria. Without good insurance, it is the norm in rural areas in the US until OBACARE. Many people saw doctors for the first time or after losing their job until Obamacare.

Mancala:
Relatively speaking, the practice of medicine in the U.S. is still "luxurious" in the worst of times compared to Nigeria. American docs were overwhelmed at the start of the covid crisis due to situations like insufficient PPE and hospital beds in isolation/negative pressure wards as well as insufficient ventilators, all temporary in nature. These are everyday permanent occurrences in a place like Nigeria. A patient has to provide pretty much everything for themselves. I recall a case where a baby was born prematurely and needed to be in an incubator. The parents had to pay to repair the only available incubator then bring a generator from home to keep it going. A collection was taken everyday to buy gasoline to run it.
"Even Gowon once boasted that money is not the problem but how to spend it" Theirein lies one singular problem of the average Nigerian in power. A lack of foresight and imagination!

laiperi:
Mancala,

You are quite right and on point. But remember that as young doctors cry, poorer Nigerians bleed. Africa is a harder place than ever. We will not solve the problem by running away.

I would like to know how you feel about those who left big money, position and comfort to head home. Money is not everything.

I mentioned in one of my posts how the small towns and villagers shower doctors with kindness to get them to stay after NYSC. Some did, some left.

Then our endurance has a limit. No one should go into medicine without. Actually, that was the reason they used to make young doctors work those crazy hours. It is slave labor and many countries have reduced it.

So I totally agree with you on the arduous tasks of doctors. But paying out of pocket, choice of medicine or none and who gets treated is not limited to Nigeria. Without good insurance, it is the norm in rural areas in the US until OBACARE. Many people saw doctors for the first time or after losing their job until Obamacare.

I understand your point of view , but I've learnt to take a dispassionate view on matters concerning Nigeria. Our situation is like that of a drug addict and rehab. It will only work when the entire being is ready and willing to change. No one should be expected to sit around waiting for that to happen. Migration has been happening since ancient times. People moved to new geographies when their location was not working out. The only difference now is that there are borders and formalities to overcome. Our forefathers migrated from someplace else and settled in Nigeria when they faced difficulties where they came from. America, Canada, Australia.... are all countries of immigrants. If you don't like where you're at, move! Life is too short to remain in an untenable situation when you have options. Some of us Nigerians have never seen Nigeria in good shape like it was immediately after independence and somewhat into the 1970's. A lot do not know what it's like to have 24/7 electricity, in-home running water, security and a working government.
If a medical doctor cannot stand going to work to face pain and misery, they are free to excercise their options. I know of lady pediatrician that cried herself to sleep every night because of the misery she experienced at work everyday.
At least, in the U.S., you can walk into a hospital emregency room and get treatment, no questions asked. Not ideal, but people do not die like flies. They would treat and stabilize you before talking money. This pre-exists Obamacare.

Mancala,

You know I heard that anyone can walk into Emergency Room and get treated many times. True but in which states?

If you are talking about New England, true. In Washington and California, true. If you tried that in the Southern states before Obamacare, you are dead!

But then, there are a few counties with religious or non-profit organizations that may accept you. Even then, they will not let you burst their budget. There are certain amount of allocations from Federal or State budgets.

Another way to understand it is to look at states that accept Obamacare and those that did not. Simply put, most Northern states did and most Southern states did not. It is also important that nothing, absolutely free for a few years to the states, yet they refused Obamacare that cost them nada!

Mancala:

.
At least, in the U.S., you can walk into a hospital emregency room and get treatment, no questions asked. Not ideal, but people do not die like flies. They would treat and stabilize you before talking money. This pre-exists Obamacare.

As for the freedom to live where ever is convenient for each individual, fine. But do not live where you are a parasite, looter, money and talents launders. Go out and struggle like everyone else in your country of choice.

I do not want to go deeper. Suffice to say while some people are working and going to school full time, then sending money home to Nigeria, others are laundering more abroad for taxes on humongous houses, exotic cars, their children and girlfriends while the owner of the money and resources laundered, suffer and wallow in poverty in Nigeria.

It is not fair and that is not freedom to live where you want.

HBB1:


Nobody said they didn't write and pass their exams...

They just didn't up and leave!

Ciao!

You cannot qualify from a remote location.

laiperi:
Mancala,

You know I heard that anyone can walk into Emergency Room and get treated many times. True but in which states?

If you are talking about New England, true. In Washington and California, true. If you tried that in the Southern states before Obamacare, you are dead!

But then, there are a few counties with religious or non-profit organizations that may accept you. Even then, they will not let you burst their budget. There are certain amount of allocations from Federal or State budgets.

Another way to understand it is to look at states that accept Obamacare and those that did not. Simply put, most Northern states did and most Southern states did not. It is also important that nothing, absolutely free for a few years to the states, yet they refused Obamacare that cost them nada!


As for the freedom to live where ever is convenient for each individual, fine. But do not live where you are a parasite, looter, money and talents launders. Go out and struggle like everyone else in your country of choice.

I do not want to go deeper. Suffice to say while some people are working andBut do not live where you are a parasite, looter, money and talents launders. Go out and struggle like everyone else in your country of choice. going to school full time, then sending money home to Nigeria, others are laundering more abroad for taxes on humongous houses, exotic cars, their children and girlfriends while the owner of the money and resources laundered, suffer and wallow in poverty in Nigeria.

It is not fair and that is not freedom to live where you want.

Actually, there is a federal law named the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act enacted in 1986 that applies to all states and all hospitals that accept Medicare, which is practically almost all. Hospitals are required to treat and stabilize anyone who walks into an ER regardless of insurance status or ability to pay. I know for a fact that it happens in the southern states. I know of specific examples in Mississippi and Alabama where the ER's were overwhelmed with non insured patients. This predates Obamacare and is still in effect.

Mancala:


Actually, there is a federal law named the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act enacted in 1986 that applies to all states and all hospitals that accept Medicare, which is practically almost all. Hospitals are required to treat and stabilize anyone who walks into an ER regardless of insurance status or ability to pay. I know for a fact that it happens in the southern states. I know of specific examples in Mississippi and Alabama where the ER's were overwhelmed with non insured patients. This predates Obamacare and is still in effect.

Why do you guys get distracted by law that can never be enforced? No be US? Who told you the budget for MEDICAID and MEDICARE can be bursted?

Unfortunately, that is the argument used to kill Obamacare slowly, even in the Supreme Court! Have you ever asked why Americans even in the most progressive states are going without medical treatment and the reason for Obamacare in the first place?

My dear a word of caution. Most people go to US to better themselves, not to become destitute. If you get a good job or buy a house, and they can trace all aliases used to you, MEDICAID will garnish your salary and put a lien on your house. Free eh?

Yes, parents are taken to Emergency for all types of illnesses but they are couched to give false name and addresses while their children stay out of sight in the hospital. Well, you cannot trace them because they go back home in a few months.

As for destitute, who pay for their medication when they leave Emergency? Pray you do not have an illness that need medical management for a few weeks. You die like a dog in the richest country in the world where people die homeless on the streets everyday.

BTW, any foreigner used to visit London and get complete health care until Edward Heath and Margaret Thacher spoiled better thing. How is it now?

You know in United States, there is a law against any form of discrimination? It could not be the place where the poor, black and brown die everyday in front of cell phone camera, is it!

Then it's right for all countries to practise it right? Oponu. It's all a tactic to lure doctors with "green pasture" poor mentality >:

murphyibiam15:

Atleast NHS granted it for the Drs

Golan007:


You cannot qualify from a remote location.

Qualify from a remote location?

What are you talking about?

Doesn't make sense.

laiperi:


Why do you guys get distracted by law that can never be enforced? No be US? Who told you the budget for MEDICAID and MEDICARE can be bursted?

Unfortunately, that is the argument used to kill Obamacare slowly, even in the Supreme Court! Have you ever asked why Americans even in the most progressive states are going without medical treatment and the reason for Obamacare in the first place?

My dear a word of caution. Most people go to US to better themselves, not to become destitute. If you get a good job or buy a house, and they can trace all aliases used to you, MEDICAID will garnish your salary and put a lien on your house. Free eh?

Yes, parents are taken to Emergency for all types of illnesses but they are couched to give false name and addresses while their children stay out of sight in the hospital. Well, you cannot trace them because they go back home in a few months.

As for destitute, who pay for their medication when they leave Emergency? Pray you do not have an illness that need medical management for a few weeks. You die like a dog in the richest country in the world where people die homeless on the streets everyday.

BTW, any foreigner used to visit London and get complete health care until Edward Heath and Margaret Thacher spoiled better thing. How is it now?

You know in United States, there is a law against any form of discrimination? It could not be the place where the poor, black and brown die everyday in front of cell phone camera, is it!

My point remains. You can walk into an emergency room and receive initial treatment to stabilize regardless of ability to pay. This is the law and it works. It has worked so well that it became a disincentive to some to get private medical insurance and hence the advent of Obamacare. The cost of these services is passed on to private medical insurers not the Medicare/Medicaid budget. Education and information is the great divider between the so called privileged and the poor in America. You need knowledge and information to "work the system" to your advantage as many informed people do. The privileged continue to access resources because they know how while the uneducated and underprivileged go without because they don't. Your wages will not be garnished if you access resources according to the law. It is being done regularly. I'm not sure how we got to arguing about the American medical system from physician folks wanting to travel to the U.K., but let me say this. You can be very successful in the U.S. if you understand the system and prepare yourself for success. There are lots of well accomplished Nigerian professionals who are living a peaceable life here and same thing in Nigeria. Life is what you make of it.

Mancala,

Thanks for the discussion with you. Have a lovely day.

They will still go I know so.

Stop generalizing please, simply put, some Nigerians would suffice....

fof1:



Are U Educated at All? What is Flimsy when they don't have Passports, not to talk of Visas. Why are Nigerians such Cheats and Foolish.?

justwise:
[/b]

When they have a proper traveling document e.g tier 2 visa

Experts, however, said the 58 doctors that were stopped last week at the airport by NIS have left the country again.

I guess the Visa office opened this week.

https://guardian.ng/news/uks-new-migration-visa-lures-nigerian-doctors/

Golan007:


You cannot qualify from a remote location.

Leopantro:





I guess the Visa office opened this week.

https://guardian.ng/news/uks-new-migration-visa-lures-nigerian-doctors/

This week or next week? I read 27th some where.