TAO12:
Continuation 2:

First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.

Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard and “official” traditional Benin account.

So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.

Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.

If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.

Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.

If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.

What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.

So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.

In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation.
.
.
.
Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.

Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?

. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.

First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.

Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.

This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.

Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?

Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.

But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.

How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.

In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.

It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.

Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.

You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.

Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:

(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.

(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Eware existed, even though the Europeans didnt see him rule
The esan fleeing from benin was from the result of Ewaure, the towns he conquered are still much
Are alive, his grave site is still at isi in benin,

And i never stated that oduduwa never existed or ogun never existed because Europeans never had contact with them, atleast they must be something tangible to refrence is existence to,
Unlike the yorubas who never kept any records of their people, ooni was a priest in ife, untill recently he started assuming the title of a king, and caused political unification of the yoruba people


Babe i dont even want to go inside the myth of ife, because it is a myth on his own, so as ife kinglist

gregyboy:
Lol , samuel johson untied yorubas with the mythical ife, when he wrote the history of the yorubas in 1897, but that couldn't hold them because most of the yorubas couldn't read his book or have access to it, awolowo who read the book, finally achieved samuel johson aim.... To frictional unite the yoruba into one ancestory in a bid to stop the yoruba civil war and the enemity it created,
Samuel johson saw that all yorubas spoke a similar language tho not from the same ancestory
All he did was to unite them under some mythical history of a diety from ife, Oduduwa was a diety at ife he was worshiped as a god, and not the newly invented eledumare guy, the eledumare was brought in recently to accompany
That oduduwa existed as a king on earth TAO11 clap for me i be guru

No you're a dummy. Refer to the attached for your refutation.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Hurry up and begin a search for someone else. Your Awolowo and Samuel Johnson Straws have been shattered before your very eyes.

Tinubu?? ?? ??

gregyboy:
Eware existed, even though the Europeans didnt see him rule
The esan fleeing from benin was from the result of Ewaure, the towns he conquered are still much Are alive

You're not a bright person obviously. Just like my prior explanations, the Esan fleeing Bini itself is based on oral account. The Esan alive today are not the very same people who supposedly fled (if anyone fled Benin in the first pkace). The Esans of today must resort to an oral account in order to uphold the position that their fore parents fled from Benin -- It goes back again to oral account.

Also, the supposition that Ewuare is the reason why they fled (if they fled from Benin at all) is also based on oral traditions. So everything -- no matter how dumb you are not to see it -- goes back to be based on oral tradition.

,his grave site is still at isi in benin,

I have refuted you on multiple times. A grave by itself proves nothing. The grave (which is presumably made in a pre-literate setting) doesn't by itself inform you about the name and life of the person supposedly buried (if anyone was buried there in the first place). One would still have to resort to an oral account which would say that it is indeed Ewuare that was buried at so and so place. It goes back again to oral account.

So, you're stuck with oral accounts apparently.

And i never stated that oduduwa never existed or ogun never existed because Europeans never had contact with them, atleast they must be something tangible to refrence is existence to, Unlike the yorubas who never kept any records of their people,

All the exploits of Oduduwa, et al. from the unification of all the primordial settlement under one political rule, to the commissioning of the city wall, among innumerable others are all based on oral account just as in the case of your Ewuare I.

So, you must explain why you will adopt a double-standard of accepting oral accounts when it's convenient for you.

ooni was a priest in ife, untill recently he started assuming the title of a king, and caused political unification of the yoruba people

Really!? What date did Ooni change from priest to King? And who changed him? Remember that your JoHnSon straw has been shattered. Just as your AwOlOwO straw which you've now fled from.

Babe i dont even want to go inside the myth of ife, because it is a myth on his own, so as ife kinglist

You mean the myth of how Benin City was founded by the last born son of God??

Or the myth of how your Ogisos sky-dived into Benin City round about without any parachute??

Or the myth of how a European supplanted the last Ogiso to establish himself as the first Oba of Benin??

Which myth exactly??

Moreover, I have already exposed your fraud on the screenshot you attached here. I think you should do yourself the good of always reading what you reply to. It makes you appear less dumb. Here is the reply to it which I have given earlier:

First of all, your attachment refers specifically to post-1800 kings and not all the kings from the beginning. This therefore excludes the era of King Ogun.

Secondly, nowhere does the author of your attachment say anything to the effect that these four lists of post-1800 kings “shouldn’t be taken seriously”. This is simply your Edo lying nature kicking in.

On the contrary however, the author of your attachment finds it “impressive” that these independent lists coming originally from a semi-literate context shows “an absolute consistency” in general.


Having said that, the issue of the ifs-king list here is no where near the mess of the Benin kinglists where Captain Roupell was originally informed by the Benin palace historians and others tin 1897 that there are twenty-three (23) Benin Obas between from Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.

Today however, the Benin kinglists now feature thirty-five (35) Benin Obas between Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.

Where did the extra twelve (12) audio Obas pop out from??

TAO12:
Another Reminder:

Your replies reeks simply of sorrows, tears and misery.

It is my pleasure to have wiped the floor with your face. Next time you know your class.

Moreover, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.

Also, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’re on the run till date.

Find another means of saving face from this disgrace which I’m forcing you and your 2by2 kingdom to go through publicly.

Moreover, there isn’t one single thread that you’ve created which I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.

I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t disgrace you and chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.

Lol, mouthful lady..... Visit my thread were i placed a price worth of 10,000 naira cash price, to whom ever can prove benin-ife connection from the Europeans arrival till the end of the empir 15 century to 1897, with archeological evidence backing to support it too


Would you ever give up even if you see the truth glaring at you, and i know ife is a myth but you still using it to sustain your yorubaistic ego and also fooling your brothers into it,

For you to admit i defeated you, you rather take sniper like awolowo and die like rat, i would be glad to present you a calabash like the ogboni to hang yourself, many times i have destroyed your lies, instead of you to keep shut and accept fact you go behind my back on an igbo thread to claim benin ties with yorubas, so to prove your point there, that's why am here to disprove such fallacious claims of yours and
Your foolish yoruba brothers acknowledge you for your deceit

Tao11 you went behind my back without tagging me to support your egoistic claims of the benin-ife myth, i constantly tell you desist from it, you still went ahead to post it, to support your points against igbos, and you didnt mention me to be aware, you must be a coward lije your brothers who gave you numerous likes for it,
You and your brother are morons and cowards for doing such if yorubas can claim benin with their false myth, then we will allow any tribe to do same, afterall the yorubas did it aswell even when we know the stroy of their connection to benin was made up and untrue ,
If you wont allow that, then go back and erase those useless point of yours and apologize abd tell your brothers to do the same


Note
tao11 you run from threads when debating me, i know you so well, when your not running, you will bring a different topic to serves as distraction, and if you cant escape you pray another party joins the argument till, you bore us out the threads, the only power you had was when we use to argue on the ownership of oduduwa, then i also use to beat you at it too


Follow on this thread, bring your brothers along too

https://www.nairaland.com/5835965/prove-benin-ife-connection-archeological

Come with the relevance


TAO11 you still have not proved to me why is the
Whydmn guy the only one on the king list claiming ogun ruled ife as a priest not as a king tho, because in the past ife was not having king but priest

You still have not prove to me why you believe ogun is a Yoruba idol and not benin

And you also said the author of the article agreed that ogun and Obalufon abi obamakin was the sane person as ogun and not different people

OmoOlofin:
You're not a bright person obviously. Just like my prior explanations, the Esan fleeing Bini itself is based on oral account. The Esan alive today are not the very same people who supposedly fled (if anyone fled Benin in the first pkace). The Esans of today must resort to an oral account in order to uphold the position that their fore parents fled from Benin -- It goes back again to oral account.

Also, the supposition that Ewuare is the reason why they fled (if they fled from Benin at all) is also based on oral traditions. So everything -- no matter how dumb you are not to see it -- goes back to be based on oral tradition.

I have refuted you on multiple times. A grave by itself proves nothing. The grave (which is presumably made in a pre-literate setting) doesn't by itself inform you about the name and life of the person supposedly buried (if anyone was buried there in the first place). One would still have to resort to an oral account which would say that it is indeed Ewuare that was buried at so and so place. It goes back again to oral account.

So, you're stuck with oral accounts apparently.

All the exploits of Oduduwa, et al. from the unification of all the primordial settlement under one political rule, to the commissioning of the city wall, among innumerable others are all based on oral account just as in the case of your Ewuare I.

So, you must explain why you will adopt a double-standard of accepting oral accounts when it's convenient for you.


Really!? What date did Ooni change from priest to King? And who changed him? Remember that your JoHnSon straw has been shattered. Just as your AwOlOwO straw which you've now fled from.


You mean the myth of how Benin City was founded by the last born son of God??

Or the myth of how your Ogisos sky-dived into Benin City round about without any parachute??

Or the myth of how a European supplanted the last Ogiso to establish himself as the first Oba of Benin??

Which myth exactly??

Moreover, I have already exposed your fraud on the screenshot you attached here. I think you should do yourself the good of always reading what you reply to. It makes you appear less dumb. Here is the reply to it which I have given earlier:

First of all, your attachment refers specifically to post-1800 kings and not all the kings from the beginning. This therefore excludes the era of King Ogun.

Secondly, nowhere does the author of your attachment say anything to the effect that these four lists of post-1800 kings “shouldn’t be taken seriously”. This is simply your Edo lying nature kicking in.

On the contrary however, the author of your attachment finds it “impressive” that these independent lists coming originally from a semi-literate context shows “an absolute consistency” in general.


Having said that, the issue of the ifs-king list here is no where near the mess of the Benin kinglists where Captain Roupell was originally informed by the Benin palace historians and others tin 1897 that there are twenty-three (23) Benin Obas between from Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.

Today however, the Benin kinglists now feature thirty-five (35) Benin Obas between Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.

Where did the extra twelve (12) audio Obas pop out from??

Not to draw this discussion too long, i accept the king list of roupell was the correct one, since you insist it must be, the list included ewuare and excluded oromiyan am i right........ but why exclude oromiyan if he indeed rule, if he didnt rule did Roupell's state it there was a king who didnt rule.....in his article


Are we also going to accept the first king list of ife kings, just to be correct too, because the first kinglist didnt involve ogun ruling as king more so Roupell's king list informants were fewer compared to thomas informants, talbots who collect is list of kings after 1924 and included oromiyan we don't kniw who were is evil informants he decided not to say who ia informants wee, because it was a distortion to include oromiyan into benin history as a whole egharevba also worked with talbots list too,


I never said oral tradition is not accepted, only if it is not a myth atleast the oral traditions must be traceable with various account,
UnLike the story of oduduwa were samuel Johnson used is pen to give him life,and,forcing him to come from mecca, sky, and lastly the revise version you support oke era

See am not you, who dwell on myth am the one trying to cure you from your insanely love over mythology over facts, i descredited the benin ogun story as a god king son, because i know it is a myth and i never used it to claim ownership, i also personal disagreed on ogiso ruling as rulers in benin but you TAO11, the great dweler and queens of mytg disagreed with me ogiso ruled benin and Oronmiyan came saudi arabia to displace them inother to prove your point oromiyan really came to benin just to uplift your dead ego, you finally accepted ogiso was a benin mythology... Tao11 the wise lady, D

gregyboy:


Not to draw this discussion too long, i accept the king list of roupell was the correct one, since you insist it must be, the list included ewuare and excluded oromiyan am i right........ but why exclude oromiyan if he indeed rule, if he didnt rule did Roupell's state it there was a king who didnt rule.....in his article


Are we also going to accept the first king list of ife kings, just to be correct too, because the first kinglist didnt involve ogun ruling as king more so Roupell's king list informants were fewer compared to thomas informants, talbots who collect is list of kings after 1924 and included oromiyan we don't kniw who were is evil informants he decided not to say who ia informants wee, because it was a distortion to include oromiyan into benin history as a whole egharevba also worked with talbots list too,


I never said oral tradition is not accepted, only if it is not a myth atleast the oral traditions must be traceable with various account,
UnLike the story of oduduwa were samuel Johnson used is pen to give him life,and,forcing him to come from mecca, sky, and lastly the revise version you support oke era

See am not you, who dwell on myth am the one trying to cure you from your insanely love over mythology over facts, i descredited the benin ogun story as a god king son, because i know it is a myth and i never used it to claim ownership, i also personal disagreed on ogiso ruling as rulers in benin but you TAO11, the great dweler and queens of mytg disagreed with me ogiso ruled benin and Oronmiyan came saudi arabia to displace them inother to prove your point oromiyan really came to benin just to uplift your dead ego, you finally accepted ogiso was a benin mythology... Tao11 the wise lady, D

First of all, at no point did I tell you that Oranmiyan managed to be installed as Oba. I dare you to point out where I stated that Oranmiyan was installed as Oba, you huge dunce.

Instead, I stated the precise opposite which was that his son became the first Oba, and that was because the pocket of resistance to Oranmiyan from some of the elders were sufficient enough to dispirit the original plan that he should be formally installed as Oba.

Extant Yoruba and Benin accounts recognize his son (Eweka 1) as the first Oba of Benin.

Secondly, I you lied as usual when you noted that the list included Ewuare 1. That’s a huge Edo lie. Ewuare 1 never feature on the kinglist of Roupell which happens to be the first Benin kinglist.

So, my question still stands tall: Where did the extra twelve audio Oba of Benin (including Ewuare) in today’s kinglists pop out from??

Important Information: Learn to type in English language going forward.

gregyboy:
Lol, mouthful lady..... Visit my thread were i placed a price worth of 10,000 naira cash price, to whom ever can prove benin-ife connection from the Europeans arrival till the end of the empir 15 century to 1897, with archeological evidence backing to support it too

Would you ever give up even if you see the truth glaring at you, and i know ife is a myth but you still using it to sustain your yorubaistic ego and also fooling your brothers into it,
For you to admit i defeated you, you rather take sniper like awolowo and die like rat, i would be glad to present you a calabash like the ogboni to hang yourself, many times i have destroyed your lies, instead of you to keep shut and accept fact you go behind my back on an igbo thread to claim benin ties with yorubas, so to prove your point there, that's why am here to disprove such fallacious claims of yours and
Your foolish yoruba brothers acknowledge you for your deceit

Tao11 you went behind my back without tagging me to support your egoistic claims of the benin-ife myth, i constantly tell you desist from it, you still went ahead to post it, to support your points against igbos, and you didnt mention me to be aware, you must be a coward lije your brothers who gave you numerous likes for it,
You and your brother are morons and cowards for doing such if yorubas can claim benin with their false myth, then we will allow any tribe to do same, afterall the yorubas did it aswell even when we know the stroy of their connection to benin was made up and untrue ,
If you wont allow that, then go back and erase those useless point of yours and apologize abd tell your brothers to do the same


Note
tao11 you run from threads when debating me, i know you so well, when your not running, you will bring a different topic to serves as distraction, and if you cant escape you pray another party joins the argument till, you bore us out the threads, the only power you had was when we use to argue on the ownership of oduduwa, then i also use to beat you at it too


Follow on this thread, bring your brothers along too

https://www.nairaland.com/5835965/prove-benin-ife-connection-archeological

Come with the relevance

TAO11 you still have not proved to me why is the
Whydmn guy the only one on the king list claiming ogun ruled ife as a priest not as a king tho, because in the past ife was not having king but priest

You still have not prove to me why you believe ogun is a Yoruba idol and not benin

And you also said the author of the article agreed that ogun and Obalufon abi obamakin was the sane person as ogun and not different people

Rants and tears of my drowning slave

If you are ready to address any of my arguments then wake me up.

When I put forward an argument, what you must do is to engage such argument by raising specific contentions regarding it.

What you do instead as a dummy is to repeat the same rants that you had raised prior to my argument which refutes them.

You never point out what contentions you see with the latest argument. I didn’t expect too much from my slave though.

Lastly, if you must a claim about some other threads then do so by posting a link of the said thread, and I will reply you with a screenshot/link of the specific page where you gazed-out and got disgraced by my humble self.

And for the particular link which which you’ve unashamedly posted here, the attached screenshot shows your final comment to me where I disgraced you and magnified your ignorance.

You gazed-out only on page 2. Here is a link to the page where you were disgraced:

https://www.nairaland.com/5835965/prove-benin-ife-connection-archeological/1#89298903


Here is another one of your propaganda threads where my refutation of your “no Ife-Benin” rant got you running away till date:

https://www.nairaland.com/5839972/post-evidence-benin-ife-connection-prior#89664642

I literally disgrace and chase you away using facts from the propaganda threads that you yourself created.

I dare you to continue posting links to your propaganda threads, and I will continue to magnify your shame by highlighting where you fled after being disgraced. I double dare you.

You got whipped on every single one of your propaganda threads. Keep them coming, there is more than one of them. Nothing should be holding you back, right?

Name me one person on the whole of Nairaland who thinks you are mentally fit. There is absolutely none. I ‘rubbished’ you to that point where you’re you regarded by virtually everyone as trash.

Your brother @ghostwon literally said that you lacked the ability to use your brain. It is my pleasure to have reduced you to a Nairaland rag.

OmoOlofin:
No you're a dummy. Refer to the attached for your refutation.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Hurry up and begin a search for someone else. Your Awolowo and Samuel Johnson Straws have been shattered before your very eyes.

Tinubu?? ?? ??

Lol, mumu you only brought accounts of oyo people, go check my previous statement, i said only oyo people and some part of western yorubas recognized ife as an idolatary center, as i quoted religious centre..... And the great samuel johson brought the idol oduduwa into life with his pen


Can we see account of the various yorubas admitting to this facts too before 1897 because i know the ijebu in contact with the whitemen so as itsekiris so why post only oyo


My stance is samuel johson was the guy who united all yorubas into one canopy during the yorubas civil war, and before then ife was recognize as a religious centre to only the oyo yorubas and not the entire yorubas,
Awolowo who happens to be a fan of samuel johson for his political aspirations renforced Samuel's Johnson desires untill yorubas were fully united, the ooni was seen before now as a chief priest, awolowo uplifted him from chief priest to a king and demoted alafin who the British made Chairman of kings council

My stance is still well standing with no disproval


Samuel j, brought both ife and oduduwa into life... Disprove

OmoOlofin:
Rants and tears of my drowning slave

If you are ready to address any of my arguments then wake me up.

When I put forward an argument, what you must do is to engage such argument by raising specific contentions regarding it.

What you do instead as a dummy is to repeat the same rants that you had raised prior to my argument which refutes them.

You never point out what contentions you see with the latest argument. I didn’t expect too much from my slave though.

Lastly, if you must a claim about some other threads then do so by posting a link of the said thread, and I will reply you with a screenshot/link of the specific page where you gazed-out and got disgraced by my humble self.

And for the particular link which which you’ve unashamedly posted here, the attached screenshot shows your final comment to me where I disgraced you and magnified your ignorance.

You gazed-out only on page 2. Here is a link to the page where you were disgraced:

https://www.nairaland.com/5835965/prove-benin-ife-connection-archeological/1#89298903


Here is another one of your propaganda threads where my refutation of your “no Ife-Benin” rant got you running away till date:

https://www.nairaland.com/5839972/post-evidence-benin-ife-connection-prior#89664642

I literally disgrace and chase you away using facts from the propaganda threads that you yourself created.

I dare you to continue posting links to your propaganda threads, and I will continue to magnify your shame by highlighting where you fled after being disgraced. I double dare you.

You got whipped on every single one of your propaganda threads. Keep them coming, there is more than one of them. Nothing should be holding you back, right?

Name me one person on the whole of Nairaland who thinks you are mentally fit. There is absolutely none. I ‘rubbished’ you to that point where you’re you regarded by virtually everyone as trash.

Your brother @ghostwon literally said that you lacked the ability to use your brain. It is my pleasure to have reduced you to a Nairaland rag.

And your brothers said your writeups are always meaningless and still lengthy... Lol

Yea ghostwon said i was not thinking deeper because i support the benin-ife myth, but your brothers have always seen you as a foilish lady


TAO11 am coming to resurface the thread

gregyboy:
Lol, mumu you only brought accounts of oyo people, go check my previous statement, i said only oyo people and some part of western yorubas recognized ife as an idolatary center, as i quoted religious centre..... And the great samuel johson brought the idol oduduwa into life with his pen

Can we see account of the various yorubas admitting to this facts too before 1897 because i know the ijebu in contact with the whitemen so as itsekiris so why post only oyo

My stance is samuel johson was the guy who united all yorubas into one canopy during the yorubas civil war, and before then ife was recognize as a religious centre to only the oyo yorubas and not the entire yorubas,
Awolowo who happens to be a fan of samuel johson for his political aspirations renforced Samuel's Johnson desires untill yorubas were fully united, the ooni was seen before now as a chief priest, awolowo uplifted him from chief priest to a king and demoted alafin who the British made Chairman of kings council

My stance is still well standing with no disproval

Samuel j, brought both ife and oduduwa into life... Disprove

You are obviously a retard ignoramus. I have already demolished you AwoLowo straw and Johnson straw

I cited you four different early references to Yoruba groups including Ijebu and Oyo acknowledging the imperial primacy of Ife/Oduduwa.

It is your now your duty to provide evidence of where Samuel Johnson invented Oduduwa as well as evidence for every claim you make.

He who makes a claim have the burden of proving it. And what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. So, help yourself.

gregyboy:

And your brothers said your writeups are always meaningless and still lengthy... Lol

They couldn’t say that and yet gave me all those likes that brings out your tears.

Yea ghostwon said i was not thinking deeper because i support the benin-ife myth, but your brothers have always seen you as a foilish lady

Yes, he said you lacked the ability to use your brain.

And you later proved that he was correct by ingesting his words even when you had no evidence.

TAO11 am coming to resurface the thread

You’re coming just as Atiku is cuoming??

OmoOlofin:
First of all, at no point did I tell you that Oranmiyan managed to be installed as Oba. I dare you to point out where I stated that Oranmiyan was installed as Oba, you huge dunce.

Instead, I stated the precise opposite which was that his son became the first Oba, and that was because the pocket of resistance to Oranmiyan from some of the elders were sufficient enough to dispirit the original plan that he should be formally installed as Oba.

Extant Yoruba and Benin accounts recognize his son (Eweka 1) as the first Oba of Benin.

Secondly, I you lied as usual when you noted that the list included Ewuare 1. That’s a huge Edo lie. Ewuare 1 never feature on the kinglist of Roupell which happens to be the first Benin kinglist.

So, my question still stands tall: Where did the extra twelve audio Oba of Benin (including Ewuare) in today’s kinglists pop out from??

Important Information: Learn to type in English language going forward.

The issues is not oromiyan coming to benin or both party agreeing to it, if they put fact and myth for you to choose you will whole heartedly embrace myth,that's my point your lover of myth

The issue is did oromiyan come to benin at all..?
Was there ogiso oromiyan displace, and eweka formed the first Oba... Lol


How true is the ife and benin tales, if you belive ogiso was displaced by invited oromiyan prove it with evidence dating from 15c to 1897


Do you believe ogiso ruled or even if they existed in benin?

And benin that benin was later replaced by oba from ife


Answer this quickly

gregyboy:
The issues is not oromiyan coming to benin or both party agreeing to it, if they put fact and myth for you to choose you will whole heartedly embrace myth,that's my point your lover of myth

The issue is did oromiyan come to benin at all..?
Was there ogiso oromiyan displace, and eweka formed the first Oba... Lol


How true is the ife and benin tales, if you belive ogiso was displaced by invited oromiyan prove it with evidence dating from 15c to 1897


Do you believe ogiso ruled or even if they existed in benin?

And benin that benin was later replaced by oba from ife

Answer this quickly

(1) In relation to your bogus claims here: What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

(2) In relation to Ife-Benin connection, refer to the links below from some of your propaganda threads from where you’ve fled for many months now never to look back till date:

https://www.nairaland.com/5839972/post-evidence-benin-ife-connection-prior#89664642

https://www.nairaland.com/6026680/quick-fact-benin-ife-controversy-stared#92308698

https://www.nairaland.com/5857722/post-samuel-j-article-written/1#89740621

https://www.nairaland.com/5894619/benin-influence-yorubas/1

And so forth.

The last link here actually relates to a thread you created using you @Edeyoung moniker.

(3) In relation to your screenshot, Roupell clearly wrote “Ebowani”. There is no way this is “Ewuare” by any stretch of the imagination.

The fact that “Ebowani” appears on the same line with “Ewuare” in the other list is not proof that “Ebowani” is “Ewuare”.

Just as “Ezoti” in Roupell’s list is not one and the same as “Orobieu” or “Egbeka” even though they appear on the same line.

Or just as “Olua” is not one and the same person as ”Uwafa-Ekene”/ “Uwaifokun” even though they appear on the same line.

And so forth.

Moreover, the presence of the name of any supposedly pre-1800 Oba on that Roupell’s list is not evidence of the existence of such Oba.

Roupell’s list was compiled in 1897, so whatever name you see on that list of a supposedly pre-1800 Oba is again nothing but oral account.

So you’re back again to oral account. There is actually no escaping for from it.

It is a valid source of historical information, but which is to be adopted with caution — just as any source of historical information actually.

See attached for @gregyboy while receiving the flogging of his life.

TAO11:
(1) In relation to your bogus claims here: What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

(2) In relation to Ife-Benin connection, refer to the link below of one of your propaganda threads from where you’ve fled for many months now never to look back till date:

https://www.nairaland.com/5839972/post-evidence-benin-ife-connection-prior#89664642

https://www.nairaland.com/6026680/quick-fact-benin-ife-controversy-stared#92308698

(3) In relation to your screenshot, Roupell clearly wrote “Ebowani”. There is no way this is “Ewuare” by any stretch of the imagination.

The fact that “Ebowani” appears on the same line with “Ewuare” in the other list is not proof that “Ebowani” is “Ewuare”.

Just as “Ezoti” in Roupell’s list is not one and the same as “Orobieu” or “Egbeka” because they appear on the same line.

Or just as “Olua” is not one and the same person as ”Uwafa-Ekene”/ “Uwaifokun” because they appear on the same line.

And so forth.

Moreover, the presence of the name of any supposedly pre-1800 Oba on that Roupell’s list is not evidence of the existence of such Oba.

Roupell’s list was compiled in 1897, so whatever name you see on that list of a supposedly pre-1800 Oba is again nothing but oral account.

So you’re back again to oral account. There is actually no escaping for from it.

It is a valid source of historical information, but which is to to be adopted with caution — just any any source of historical information actually.

You have gone blinded by me,...... Lol i will drown you.. More that you cant see again

It is already showing... Lol, nor be me b gregyboy lol....
You can't even see the screenshot again... The hate towards me have blinded you.... To this extent

After you argued that the kinglist list was altered after Roupell's kinglist, so it is not a true list,
and i told you forget the other people's kinglist lets use Roupell's list, you came again that ewaure was never there on Roupell's list, so it is a fake kinglist, i took my time again to point it out to you, but this time you became completely blinded by hate towards me

Now youre saying since the king list is from oral accounts then it is also not correct.

Lol, mugu... Skip the rest kings before esigie and above since the Europeans came to benin during esigies rein so there is an eye witness is not TAO11

Lol, so eweka and oromiyan you're killing yourself self on is now a myth since they didnt exist, mugu

OmoOlofin:
They couldn’t say that and yet gave me all those likes that brings out your tears.

Yes, he said you lacked the ability to use your brain.

And you later proved that he was correct by ingesting his words even when you had no evidence.

You’re coming just as Atiku is cuoming??

They gave yoy those kijsa for tribalistic sakw not because you madd sense... So get sense


A child could be called a fool by his parents but when an outsider does that to that same child the so parents would revoke it.......


I know you got my parable abi na, it was an igbo thread, which yoruba loves masturbating on so what did you expect


Mugu

gregyboy:

You have gone blinded by me,...... Lol i will drown you.. More that you cant see again

It is already showing... Lol, nor be me b gregyboy lol....
You can't even see the screenshot again... The hate towards me have blinded you.... To this extent

After you argued that the kinglist list was altered after Roupell's kinglist, so it is not a true list,
and i told you forget the other people's kinglist lets use Roupell's list,

you came again that ewaure was never there on Roupell's list, so it is a fake , i took my time again to point it out to you, but this time you became completely blinded by hate towards me

Now youre saying since the king list is from oral accounts then it is also not correct.

Lol, mugu... Skip the rest kings before esigie and above since the Europeans came to benin during esigies rein so there is an eye witness is not TAO11

Lol, so eweka and oromiyan you're killing yourself self on is now a myth since they didnt exist, mugu

(1) Yes, the other modern kinglist that came after Roupell’s list contain twelve audio Obas.

I never said anywhere that Roupell’s list is incorrect. Rather, I have repeated the opposite.

(2) I never said Roupell’s list is fake. That must your hallucination kicking in.

I simply said Ewuare is not on the list, and that Ewuare appeared on later lists as an audio Oba (just like the other eleven audio Oba). /s


(3) Similarly, my point about the list being from oral account is that Roupell collected it in 1897 when almost all of the supposed Obas are not in existence.

So. my point is that the list is (rather than based on Eyewitness written account) is based on oral account.

And I never discredited oral account, instead I was doing the opposite of educating on the importance of oral accounts; while also demonstrating your double-standard of accepting oral accounts (knowingly or unknowingly) only when it is helps your propaganda.

(4) The Europeans who visited Bini in the late-1400/early-1500 never compiled a single kinglist.

The first kinglist to be complied of Benin Ibas was by Roupell in 1897.

And his list shows only 23 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovonramwen.

Whereas, the modern list now show 35 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovoranmwen.

Where did these modern lists manufacture the 12 audio Obas from??

(5) Eweka 1 and Oranmiyan exist because several oral traditional accounts of both the Binis and the Yorubas confirm their existence.

Oral account is a valid source of historical information, so Eweka and his father exist. Or don’t you agree because of no EyEwitNess EUrOPEaN Writing on Eweka??

Tao11 Inferiority and low self esteem has now gotten to the point of manufacturing fake likes to feel good

Lord have mercy!!!

gregyboy:
They gave yoy those kijsa for tribalistic sakw not because you madd sense... So get sense

Retype this in English language. I don’t understand Edo.

A child could be called a fool by his parents but when an outsider does that to that same child the so parents would revoke it.......

See how I reduced you to miming Pete Odeche

What a pity!?

I know you got my parable abi na, it was an igbo thread, which yoruba loves masturbating on so what did you expect

No I got your “parabola” and it’s “directrix”, and “focus” ni. Nonsense and Obaseki.

In case you were wondering, I came here simply to burst both your delusion and theirs.

And it is my pleasure to have dragged you all back into the real world of sanity.

Mugu

I am glad you signed your nickname “Mugu” as a complimentary close at the end of your comment. You may cry me the world’s oceans if you please.

OmoOlofin:
You are obviously a retard ignoramus. I have already demolished you AwoLowo straw and Johnson straw

I cited you four different early references to Yoruba groups including Ijebu and Oyo acknowledging the imperial primacy of Ife/Oduduwa.

It is your now your duty to provide evidence of where Samuel Johnson invented Oduduwa as well as evidence for every claim you make.

He who makes a claim have the burden of proving it. And what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. So, help yourself.

Were is the refrence from ijebu.... I remember seeing properly

TAO11:
Retype this in English language. I don’t understand Edo.

See how I reduced you to miming Pete Odeche

What a pity!?

No I got your “parabola” and it’s “directrix”, and “focus” ni. Nonsense and Obaseki.

In case you were wondering, I came here simply to burst both your delusion and theirs.

And it is my pleasure to have dragged you all back into the real world of sanity.

I am glad you signed your nickname “Mugu” as a complimentary close at the end of your comment. You may cry me the world’s oceans if you please.

Mugu pain am... Lol mugu

gregyboy:

Mugu pain am... Lol

mugu

Your fuel seems to have been exhausted.

Is this the best you can do to save Benin kingdom from my destructive grip??

Please don’t let Benin kingdom down. Do something my slave.

Why did you feel the need to open and close your comment here with your nick-name? Just asking.

So, Tao11 didn't get off 'distracting nairaland' after her emotional farewell speech.

She is now doing copy and paste as full time job.


This thread is burial ground for wanna be historians. The hammer is landing from left right centre.

@gregyboy while receiving flogging as his Igbo friends cheer him not to give up against all odds.

Evil Igbo friends

TAO11:


(1) Yes, the other modern kinglist that came after Roupell’s list contain twelve audio Obas.

I never said anywhere that Roupell’s list is incorrect. Rather, I have repeated the opposite.

(2) I never said Roupell’s list is fake. That must your hallucination kicking in.

I simply said Ewuare is not on the list, and that Ewuare appeared on later lists as an audio Oba (just like the other eleven audio Oba). /s


(3) Similarly, my point about the list being from oral account is that Roupell collected it in 1897 when almost all of the supposed Obas are not in existence.

So. my point is that the list is (rather than based on Eyewitness written account) is based on oral account.

And I never discredited oral account, instead I was doing the opposite of educating on the importance of oral accounts; while also demonstrating your double-standard of accepting oral accounts (knowingly or unknowingly) only when it is helps your propaganda.

(4) The Europeans who visited Bini in the late-1400/early-1500 never compiled a single kinglist.

The first kinglist to be complied of Benin Ibas was by Roupell in 1897.

And his list shows only 23 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovonramwen.

Whereas, the modern list now show 35 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovoranmwen.

Where did these modern lists manufacture the 12 audio Obas from??

(5) Eweka 1 and Oranmiyan exist because several oral traditional accounts of both the Binis and the Yorubas confirm their existence.

Oral account is a valid source of historical information, so Eweka and his father exist. Or don’t you agree because of no EyEwitNess EUrOPEaN Writing on Eweka??

You cleared that part that Roupell's list wasnt fake.......but you still remained blind to see ewuare on the list, that one problem you also need to solve yourself too


Eweka existed good,


So did ogiso exist..... Because eweka displaced ogiso, so did they exist

gregyboy:
Were is the refrence from ijebu.... I remember seeing properly

I am not sure you see though. Tears seem to have covered you up.

I cited the 1901 declaration of the Ijebu man on the primacy of Ife hence debunking your Awolowo-straw.

Here is another where the Seriki of Ijebu, Chief Ogunsigun informs the British agents in 1886 that:

“Even the English King can be shown the spot at Ile-Ife from where his ancestors went out”.

Reference: “Report of the Special Commissioners”, Parliamentary Papers 1887, C.4957, cited in S.A. Akintoye, 2010, p.2.

How did Johnson manage to pull this stunt again by time traveling his book into the mind of these people prio to 1897??

You’re are nothing but a grand moronic insecure dunce.

Below is the essence of this thread. We are on a mission as a people to fill in the gaps created by great dependence on oral history by our fore bears. Without written works to reference and with the interruption of that oral history by colonisation to a larger extent. We have a rich cultural heritage which is yet to be fully explored.

Historical records about migration among Igbo clans and villages is still very much intact preserved by oral traditions. But our interaction with outside culture is what needed to be torchlighted as oral tradition amight point towards a truth but facts are needed to make such truths valid.

Igbos love to explore their world. Information is power.


[b]
It's not a mystery that within the African continent that Igbo history, stretching for millenia is rich and awe-inspiring.
The oldest instruments, glass/carnelian jewellery, bronze antiques and clothing in west Africa were all found in Igboland. Similarly, the oldest iron-smelting areas in Africa has also been found there.

But the terrible thing is that there are still so many blanks in Igbo history that must be filled in order to present to our future generations and very few Igbo groups are taking the initiative to uncover it. There is still so, so [/b]much to be found.
Archaeology in this country is so lacking that Nigerians don't realise the gold they have literally buried underneath their feet. Just by doing routine research on some of the more popular smelting sites in the SE, archaeologists have already they found pieces of pottery dating back to millenia as well as evidence of activities stretching back to around 3000bc.

Igbos are a group distinct from the Nigerian project and can no longer continue to rely on the whims of the Nigerian government to promote indigenous archaeology, it is something that Igbos have to grasp themselves.

When Igbo history is uncovered and intensively researched , it will strengthen the Igbo national pride, and I am very confident, will catapault Igbo history to centrestage along with well-known civlisations such as Egypt, Japan, Mayan, etc, etc.

gregyboy:
You cleared that part that Roupell's list wasnt fake.

There was no point in time when I said Roupell’s list is fake.

The only list which is fake (according to your own inane standard) is the present-day Benin list.

And that is because it has an extra 12 audio Obas between Eweka1 and Ovanrami

but you still remained blind to see ewuare on the list, that one problem you also need to solve yourself too

No it is you who are hallucinated into seeing the name “Ewuare” on a list that doesn’t have the name on it. Go to the hospital quick.

Eweka existed good,

Eweka existed not because he witnessed by any EUrOPEaN, but because the oral traditional account of Benin and Yoruba affirm that he exists.

The same oral traditional account affirm the existence of his father — Oranmiyan.

It is high time you explained why one criterion makes you accept Eweka and the same criterion isn’t sufficient for affirming the existence of Oranmiyan his father’.

Talking about loud and grand insecurity and inferiority complex.

So did ogiso exist..... Because eweka displaced ogiso, so did they exist

Ogiso exist for the same reason why Eweka exist, and the same reason why Oranmiyan exist, namely: oral traditional accounts.

Moreover: Contrary to your self-delusion, no account mentions Eweka as supplanting the Ogiso system — that was his father’s job.

Eweka simply became the first Obas when the stage was set for that.

Fun fact for insecure folks:

The human bones found at Iwo-Elewu [around Akure], dated to about 7000 BC, are the oldest human remains found yet in the whole of West Africa.

Hahaha

Modified:
I have just found that a more recent study has actually found — with the aid of a more accurate dating technique (uranium-thorium) — that the Iwo-Eleru human bones are dated to circa 14000 BC.

The Nsude Pyramids.

Igbo civilization is far older than we thought. There are so much to learn.

The Lejja iron smelting site in present day Nsukka Enugu state is the oldest iron smelting site anywhere in Nigeria!!

This slags were arranged here around 4000yrs ago by an early group of Igbos that were expert iron workers