₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
The one and only spirit that doesn't have a body of it's own is God's active force "Holy Spirit" this one serves only the purpose for which it's sent out. God sits in his majestic throne in the heavens and sends this force out to accomplish whatever he purposes, so it has no mind of it's own unlike the angels! John 14:26

MaxInDHouse:
Excellent!


@ Jude 9 we read about Michael having a dispute with the devil (fallen angel) and despite the fact that Michael is now in human form as Jesus the fallen angels still recognize him! Mark 1:24




The word Spirit is used to describe so many things but in this context the difference is like saying "human and human body" you can sence the presence of a human in a place even when you've not seen the body.

So spirit have their own forms of body and they can see one another but our own eyes was designed to see only physical bodies. Remember when the two demons begged Jesus to allow them enter into the swine, at the sight of these two powerful spirits all those animals ran, fell of the cliff and drowned! Matthew 8:31-32
WHY?
Because God designed their own eyes in a way that they can see spirit bodies! Numbers 22:23

MuttleyLaff:
I asked you to explain what the glory of God means according to your knowledge and understanding, why are you turning and throwing the question back at me?

MightySparrow:
I am asking question because want to know.

shadeyinka:
A spirit with emotion, will and intellect. A spirit that is a personality!

haddeylium:
If this means a SPIRIT PERSON.
Yes!..They are an intelligent creature, they posses a spirit body with freewill(ex:Angels!)

MaxInDHouse:
I have a earthly hope Sir, so i'm not going to heaven!

AkinwaleJJ:
No sir, unlike the 144,000 who are going to rule with Jesus in heaven, my own hope is to live as a sister, wife and mother on earth!

shadeyinka:
The characteristics of any personality including having a Will, Emotion and Intellect.

If I get you right, are you saying that the Holy Spirit is NOT a personality?
(He doesn't have a will, nor emotion nor intellect?).

Janosky:
Braggadocio
Puffed up with pride

You shared with us what JWs taught you ( you try I must say), na JW teachings you take dey brag about, if to say na pastpreneurs teach you, NL no go hear word.

shadeyinka:
In other words every spirit being must have a spirit body just like every human being must have a human body. Is this okay?

shadeyinka:
So back to the same question
1. Is there a difference between a Spirit person and a Spirit Body?
2. Can you please define by the term Resurrection?

shadeyinka:
A spirit with emotion, will and intellect. A spirit that is a personality!

shadeyinka:
The characteristics of any personality including having a Will, Emotion and Intellect.

If I get you right, are you saying that the Holy Spirit is NOT a personality?
(He doesn't have a will, nor emotion nor intellect?).

Haddeylium:

All these effort you put into this Epistles just to prove nothing.

So, this is all your 'I'll be back , I'll be back you into since' grin

That summary is yours not mine

This is my word!

They will be like angels in that, they will be having a spiritual body with immortality

They will rule with Jesus as King on the Earth for 1000yrs! [l


https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200608/Do-Humans-Become-Angels-When-They-Die/

That's is the link to the article posted out of context for others to verify.

You need to be humble for Jw to make you understand all these. No joke



Matt 12:25)For when they rise from the dead, neither do men nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in the heavens.



*. Even though they're like Angels as against their old. They're quite distinct from other Angels...why



1.this 144,000 will ruling as immortal kings and priests with Christ. (Not the others Angels)(1 Corinthians 6:3)

2.They have authority as judges , Even they are judging some fallen Angels too sef (Revelation 20:6)
Do you now see why I said you need a Jw to make you understand this?

Holy scriptures: The world to come is not subjected to any angelic creature or creatures

Jesus was make better than other Angels and exulted above his peers? (Heb 1:4,9)
who are his peers?

Jehovah has elevated Jesus position to be the king of God's kingdom (These is not given to other angels)...So. Rest!

1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 5:28,29 is still your nightmare.

All others there hold no water

You've been avoiding this question...

So, what's Jesus position in heaven as the non-trinitarian you claimed to be?...Curve it

Blabbermouth:
Emí ìka, hahahahahahaha. In your mind you thought you've finally got a breathing space and a cave where you can hide - in fact, you are exactly where I want you to be.

Now you said, the summary I gave you was not your belief, that the only thing you stated was that the heavenly ressurected are like angels, you never called them angelic creatures like Gabriel.
On the other hand, your brother max didn't see this bobby trap he fell for it and he is going about saying the heavenly ressurected will become angelic creatures just like Gabriel Any difference? Yes, Max said the only difference is their position is higher.
Smiles, I thought you said all of you believe the same thing.

Well Haddey, you can't go forward anymore (to call them angelic creatures just like Gabriel) and you can't go back (well, provided you still prefer falsehood to truth)

Now declare if you have wisdom, since these beings are just like angels and not angelic creatures, what are they?
Tell me, what kind of being are the heavenly ressurected? Yes, they are like Gabriel in some aspect but have higher position, what exactly are they?

You can't run, it's the truth chasing you, you can't just escape.


You've stopped shadowboxing (since it's sinking) and jumped to cherrypicking and false eisegesis, anywhere you go, I will whip you silly.

Hebrews 2
5. For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak
6. But one in a certain place testified saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him.
7. Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and first set him over the works of thy hands
8. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him

The one who was made a little lower than the angels was also the same man that GOD subjected everything to, gave honor and set him over the works of his hands -
Who was that?
*****
Man! Christ Jesus! The son of man!
I don't care what he was before he came to earth, when he was glorified, he was glorified as a son of man not an angel!
Except you will argue that the Son of man is not a man but an angel - that is to say, Christ Jesus never came to earth as a man but an angel.
Go on, take shelter there, hahahahahahaha
*******
.


Bartimus!
Luke 22:69
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God
This was post ressurection! What kind of being was sitting at the right hand of the power of God? A Man!

Perhaps, you can say Jesus was joking or he drank too much wine when he made that statement, here is Stephen confirming that it was son of man that was sitting at the right hand of God
Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the son of man standing on the right hand of God.

When was that? After ressurection or during his time on earth?

Let me open your eyes again, even at his second coming, he is coming back as a man, not an angel!
Matthew 24:30
"And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

I don't care if he was angel Michael before his time on earth, but after ressurection, the being he became cannot be an angel!
Go ahead, tell me Jesus never became man.
Go ahead, declare if you have wisdom in you.
Like I said, in this quest for truth, you are going to be needing a lot of wisdom.

Christ Jesus never functioned as high priest until the new covenant was made (after he died and ressurected), he is not to perform his high priest duty as an angel!

1 Tim 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus
Go ahead, tell me if our mediator and high priest is an angel.

Let me see how much wisdom you've got and the source it came from.
Let me see if you will prefer to write a new bible than accept the truth.

By the way, kiss this again!
Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne

Who is your God? The GB or Jehovah?
Go ahead and test your wisdom against Jehovah's.
Go ahead and say He never swore the oath.


Is this your last resort?
Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha, be humbled by the above first, you will hold the truth soon.

Clown.

The spirit of wisdom has enlightened you - He is a new man, the King to sit on the throne of Israel forever.

PS: The heavenly ressurected will also be a new creation, a new man, with higher glory and honor than any Angel - that includes the archangel Michael.

The apple of God's eye in all his creations is man - that was what amused David.

Humble yourself and learn - Many angels also needed redemption! If Angelic creatures were the deal, the savior would have become an angel, if he was already one (perhaps Michael), he will remain an angel and just go on with the works of salvation.

However, it was written in the scriptures - He took not the nature of an angel but flesh-and-blood.....

shadeyinka:
In other words every spirit must have a spirit body just like every human must have a human body. Is this okay?

Janosky:
******
Bros , don't be too dogmatic about this.
John 7:16 Anyone sent by God is a messenger, a delegate, envoy of God. In that sense, whether a human or spirit being, he is still God's angel in the sense that he was given a mission to accomplish.

In a broad sense he is an Angel, na his Father's assignment he is doing in heaven as High Priest.
*******

Blabbermouth:
Shush! Did he become a man or did he not?
By the way, I was 100% clear on my use of word "angel" - you see me always use the phrase "angelic creature just like Gabriel".
Hahahahahahaha, you want to run.

Like I said - I was very clear with my use of the word "angel".

You are an angel yourself. You have an assignment to take the good news to unbelievers and preach the Gospel.

However, that's not what we are on about. For the last time ,I was clear about my use of the word " angels ".

shadeyinka:
Now, the Question:
For the 144,000 who will be in Heaven after their resurrection.
1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?

3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Like I said: I just want to know your response as I do not intend to prove or disprove anything you say.

Janosky:
In that case, Christ was an angel on earth just as Janosky is now

Blabbermouth:
Correct.

Janosky:
We shall continue to learn and grow in wisdom.
John 16:16-18 . Luke 24:25-27,45 , Jesus Christ continued to teach the disciples until his ascension.
Man and his limitations.
Learning never ends.

MuttleyLaff:
"Mal'ak" or "malaika", is the Hebrew, while the angel word, comes from the Greek word, which is "angelos" Each words, whether Hebrew/English/Greek, simply means someone sent on an errand or sent to give a messenger. Case in point, Angel Gabriel, lmso.

Angels, in short, actually and simply just means messengers, and vice versa.

As a matter of fact, in the Bible, angels can be either human beings on earth or extra-terrestrial beings from the heavens on earth, lmso, (i.e. angelic beings) and so both human being messengers and extra-terrestrial beings messenger are often described using the same word angels.

Now, all non human beings MESSENGERS are extra-terrestrial beings, but not all extra-terrestrial beings are MESSENGERS. Same way, as a flesh and blood messengers are human beings, but not all human beings are messengers, lmso

In fact, interestingly enough, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, appeared on earth at least four times, as the Angel of the Lord, lmso.

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I Myself stepped in to save them with My strong arm, and My wrath sustained Me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So My right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for Me, my raging anger drove Me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

Of course, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, is an Angel, Malachi 3:1 confirms Him being a Messenger. This is God, à la carte Ezekiel 22:30, Isaiah 59:16 and Isaiah 63:5 verses above, sending Himself on an errand. Praise God! Alleluia!!

MuttleyLaff:
"Who is like God" does not equate to "who is God", the two dont have the same meaning, they are mutually exclusive. He is either God or He isn't God. He cant be like Himself, God.

Besides, of course, the name Michael, means "who is like God", and we are told that Micheal is a person who looked like a human in appearance, though has spiritual characteristics like God

You spoiled a good response with saying "Jesus cannot be an angel". Why did you have say that when you know what an Angel/messengers means, hmm?

---

---

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“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me.
Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple
—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight
—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.”
- Malachi 3:1

“The LORD says,
"The time is coming when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.”
- Jeremiah 31:31

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, too is an Angel, lmso, albeit is not He is not Archangel Michael. He made various visits to earth, in the capacity of the Angel of the Lord, (i.e. as Messenger of God/Yahweh/YHWH) prior to the incarnation circa 4000 years ago.

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, according to Malachi 3:1, seen above, is the Messenger/Angel of the Jeremiah 31:31 promised covenant

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, too is an Angel, lmso, albeit is not He is not Archangel Michael. He made various visits to earth, in the capacity of the Angel of the Lord, (i.e. as Messenger of God/Yahweh/YHWH) prior to the incarnation circa 4000 years ago.

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, according to Malachi 3:1, seen above, is the Messenger/Angel of the Jeremiah 31:31 promised covenant. He is a Messenger/Angel but He isn't Archangel Michael.

Janosky:
Bros , don't be too dogmatic about this.
John 7:16 Anyone sent by God is a messenger, a delegate, envoy of God. In that sense, whether a human or spirit being, he is still God's angel in the sense that he was given a mission to accomplish.
Even in heaven , post resurrection, Jesus Christ was given a mission to accomplish.
In a broad sense he is an Angel, na his Father's assignment he is doing in heaven as High Priest

Blabbermouth:
Shush! Did he become a man or did he not?
By the way, I was 100% clear on my use of word "angel" - you see me always use the phrase "angelic creature just like Gabriel".
Hahahahahahaha, you want to run.

Like I said - I was very clear with my use of the word "angel".

You are an angel yourself. You have an assignment to take the good news to unbelievers and preach the Gospel.

However, that's not what we are on about. For the last time, I was clear about my use of the word " angels ".

Janosky:
In that case, Christ was an angel on earth just as Janosky is now

Blabbermouth:
Correct.

Blabbermouth:
Answer this please - there is an angel called the ANGEL OF THE LORD'S PRESENCE, what do you know of Him?

Blabbermouth:
Blessed art thou shadeyinka, men did not reveal this to you but the wisdom of God.

Another one! Oh, you deserve a bottle of Odeku.

They've made it unfruitful, you should have taken it up for essence, not just to listen to them.

MuttleyLaff:
I think Vanna Bonta RIP, is her name, who said:
"The body knows no pain, not like the soul. At least a nerve has limits, a body part, a name. But the soul... the soul... There is no bandage ..."

I can imagine how much Eve must have felt in her soul, and intensely she grieved, after she instantaneously spiritually died and then she realised that she and Adam have lost their glorified body, that on top on fallen from grace to grass, they are now vulnerably nakedly to the harsh, hostile, fierce and ravaging elements of nature without so much of any measurable protection.

I can imagine her nostalgia for Eden, its perks and benefits, lost, but then this her feeling of intense sorrow was told her, will worsen, get worse, as in meaning the sorrow will increase. The redeeming grace of God in all this, 4000 years later after that garden of Eden ignominy event, is that the glorified body, the spiritual death, that A&E died in the garden of Eden, is what God with the intervention of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ archetypically came on earth for to resurrect. Praise God! Alleluia!!

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ is the first born from the spiritually dead. For, as in Adam, all die, so also in Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, shall all be made alive. But there is an order to this resurrection: The Mashiach/Messiah was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to the Mashiach/Messiah will be spiritually raised with glorified bodies when He comes back (i.e. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23)

People keep mistaking spirit for soul. The two are distinct and different from each other. We are not human beings on a spiritual journey. We are souls, infused with the breath ruach of God, that makes us spiritual beings on a human journey. We are spiritual beings, having a human being experience on earth. Other spiritual beings, like celestial beings or extra terrestrial beings aka angelic hosts of heaven, do not have privilege of having a human being experience on earth, like we do or like how Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ for 33¹/₂ years on earth did, lmso.

"And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul.
Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
- Matthew 10:28

Your soul is you. Your soul is also the most important part of you, worthy enough to be sought after by the devil and worthy enough for God to die for, in place of you.

The spirit of God instilled/ breathed in you, comes and goes back to God after death. Your spirit, is your conduit that connects and/or tunes you, in with the Spirit, which God is. You see, the life of the soul is in the spirit, just as the life of body, is in the blood. It is the soul, and not the spirit, that is going to be destroyed.

That word "Gehenna" in Matthew 10:28 as seen above, is used as a symbolic designation for the final place of punishment of the ungodly. What's Gehenna sef? Well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse or rubbish site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of Fire (i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things, just as Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem)

Your human body is an earth suit, when you snuff it, the spirit returns back to its Owner but your soul goes to rest and a waiting place, pending the day of judgment when you will come forward to give account for every careless word spoken, you'll have to explain the reason(s) for your every word, thought and deed. For the spirit breathed into man goes back to God after death, the soul however goes a place to await judgement at the appointed time. On that day, during that time, by your words, you will be acquitted, and by your words, you will be condemned, lmso. May God have mercy on hardened souls, lmso. These simples, should be enough for now, lmso.

PS: Regarding MightySparrow "How is glorious body different from those of spirits? Luke 24:39, are spirits entities also?" question
MightySparrow, in the beginning, A&E, the first circa 6000 years ago terrestrial beings, unlike other spiritual beings like the celestial beings or extra terrestrial beings aka angelic hosts of heaven, had glorified bodies.

Spirits are incorporeal entities, however, spirits, just as the Luke 24:39 you quoted MightySparrow above, provided/provides clear evidence that spirits, don't have flesh and bones, lmso. I am sensing saying too much and running the risk of causing information overload, so will pause here

shadeyinka:
I have stopped my conversation with you on this topic. The scripture you quoted is simple to understand by any english speaker.

MaxInDHouse:
To shadeyinka!

I really appreciate the way we discussed at length on the issue of spirit, though we may not agree on so many things, it's important we know that there is freedom of expression, speech and worship.
So there's no need forcing our beliefs on others, it's best to tell our neighbours what we believe regarding their disposition towards our FAITH.
Jehovah our God will destroy all none JWs when he comes to judge the world, but that doesn't mean we must start treating people badly, the choice is left to them. If they feel the need to join us in the worship of our God we'll tell them the benefit and if they choose not to we'll tell them why we keep going out all the time to sound the warning. But that doesn't mean we should be hostile towards our fellow man, it's just things having to do with sacred services that will not bring us together, as for all other things, we can share as neighbours.
So i really appreciate the way and manner we had this discussion, of course you may object to many of our beliefs just as we also do towards yours but let's just conclude that everyone has what appeals to them, Jehovah's Witnesses finds pleasure in the same line of thought with our fellow believers. That's what brought us together as a global family, anyone who despises oneness in thought can never be or fancy JWs!
God bless you!

Barristter07:
Yes simple to understand , God's nature is Spirit (John 4:24). For Jesus to be in God's nature. He can't be flesh and bones. Cos Spirit don't have flesh and bones.

MaxInDHouse:
To Shadeyinka!

[color=blue]Jehovah our God will destroy all none JWs when he comes to judge the world....
God bless you!

Barristter07:
Yes simple to understand , God's nature is Spirit (John 4:24). For Jesus to be in God's nature. He can't be flesh and bones. Cos Spirit don't have flesh and bones.
You can clap for yourself now