TAO11:
LMAO!

First of all, your reply (despite a torturous search) fails to support your claim.

Rather than support your claim, you instead committed a logical fallacy — particularly “argumentum ex silentio”.

In other words, I can’t see it there, hence the Yorubas didn’t use it. Lol.

Turning the tables may help you see your logical fallacy even more clearly:

The traditional royal title of Benin kings, viz. “Omonoba” does not appear in that same listing you provided.

Does this then imply that this particular traditional Bini royal title was made up post 1938 — alluding to your own interesting logic? Lol.

In sum, you have simply borne testament, so far, to your failure to substantiate your bogus claim that Yoruba rulers do not use “oba” until in the 1900s.

Having demonstrated the logical fallacy of your intended argument, the following quotations show some pre-1900 statements which feature the word ”oba” for Yoruba traditional rulers:

Quoting word-for-word from Reverend Samuel Johnson’s magnum opus, the following are a few (four) examples of such use among the Yorubas:

(i) ”Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)." ~ p.71.

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)." ~ p.166.

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable." ~ p.171.

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!" ~ p.188.

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas", Completed 1897, Published 1921.

Moreover, the obas mentioned by name in the Yoruba proverbs seen in the above quotations from the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson, are dated by historians to have ruled in the 1500s, the 1600s, and the 1700s respectively.

Furthermore, the attachment below shows a page from an 1899-published work — driving home the very same point I’m making here.

Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa and Its Inhabitants", Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265, and which is largely a translation of the French original published in 1873.

While all the foregoing instantly debunks his claim of post-1900 Yoruba use, our Bini entertainer will yet not dare provide even a shred of evidence to substantiate a SAY-200 years old Benin use of “oba” — let alone dare substantiate his own baseless/wild claim of 600 years old written account of Benin’s use of “oba”. Isn’t God wonderful!?
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Now to put all these into a clearer perspective for you @Afam4eva:

Each and every Yoruba kingdom actually use two distinct nouns in reference to its monarch:

(1) A common noun (“oba”) rendered in English as ”king” — lit. the “overlord”.

(2) A proper noun which generally varies from one Yoruba kingdom to another. E.g. “Ooni” for the Ife Kingdom; ”Alaafin” for the Oyo kingdom; etc.

D. M. Bondarenko makes this precise point about the two nouns when he wrote that:

““Ooni is Oba of Ife” or “the Oba of Oyo is Alaafin””

Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point”, History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30 (2003), pp. 71.
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This same culture of using two distinct nouns (a common noun and a proper noun) for the king is also found among the Binis as well as among the Itsekiris.

Among the Binis for example, the proper noun and traditional royal title is “Omonoba”; while ”oba” is the common noun, viz. “king” — Both are in use till date in Benin culture.

Among the Itsekiris in comparison to the above, the two nouns are “olu” (similarly rendered in English as “king” — lit. the “premier” ) and ”Ogiame”. Also, both are in use till date for the king among the Itsekiris.

The king’s designation in these cultures may therefore sometimes appear in full, thus showing both nouns, as follows:

Ooni Ife, Oba Adeyeye; or Omonoba N’Edo, Oba Ewuare; or Olu Iwere, Ogiame Ikenwoli; etc. (or some variation of this standard practice).

But sometimes, the designation may also appear in part as is seen in the listing which he himself has provided.

The listing does not feature the Yoruba kings’ use of ”oba”, just as the same listing does not feature the Bini king’s use of the royal title “Omonoba“ — which generally appears in his designation in addition to the word “oba” as already shown above.

Should we then conclude — in line with his fallacious logic — that the Bini royal title “Omonoba” was a post-1938 invention? Laughable, isn’t it?
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Anyways, I would love to see if someday he will manage to yield to the earlier request which I will make again below:

(a) Can you show me (or cite me) an expert evidence which supports your claim that “no Yoruba traditional ruler used the title until the 1900s”?

(b) Can you show me (or cite me) a “600” year old written record of the use of the word “Oba” for a Benin monarch — since you claimed there are such old written records?

Cheers!

PS: @Afam4eva, notice the subtle attempt at derailing the discussion into an issue of colonial salaries, even though it is basic knowledge that the salaries must have been proportional to the average periodic revenue generated from the respective areas.

TAO11:


I’d like to pass a quick comment regarding one of the above comments on the word “Oba” as quoted below:



This comment is typical of disgruntled Bini Nairalanders as you may have noticed before.

A quick way of accessing the falsehood (or otherwise) of such statements in bold (which in their present form are no more than mere words put together by a random Nairalander) is to simply do the following:

Ask for the expert sources for each of the bogus claims they’ve made. For example: since they have the burden of proof having made those claims, then put the following request to them:

(a) Can you show me (or cite me) an expert evidence which supports your claim that ”no Yoruba traditional ruler used the Oba title until the 1900s”?

(b) Can you show me (or cite me) a “600” year old written record of the use of the word “Oba” for a Benin monarch — since you claimed there are such old written records?
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You will receive one or more of the following as their reply to such requests:

(1) Silence, or (2) Cunning distractions (or shyness away) from the actual request, or (3) Excuses as to why they won’t provide the evidence, or (4) Insults.

Watch out particularly for (2) and (3). Peace!

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

TAO11:
LMAO!

First of all, your reply (despite a torturous search) fails to support your claim.

Rather than support your claim, you instead committed a logical fallacy — particularly “argumentum ex silentio”.

In other words, I can’t see it there, hence the Yorubas didn’t use it. Lol.

Turning the tables may help you see your logical fallacy even more clearly:

The traditional royal title of Benin kings, viz. “Omonoba” does not appear in that same listing you provided.

Does this then imply that this particular traditional Bini royal title was made up post 1938 — alluding to your own interesting logic? Lol.

In sum, you have simply borne testament, so far, to your failure to substantiate your bogus claim that Yoruba rulers do not use “oba” until in the 1900s.

Having demonstrated the logical fallacy of your intended argument, the following quotations show some pre-1900 statements which feature the word ”oba” for Yoruba traditional rulers:

Quoting word-for-word from Reverend Samuel Johnson’s magnum opus, the following are a few (four) examples of such use among the Yorubas:

(i) ”Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)." ~ p.71.

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)." ~ p.166.

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable." ~ p.171.

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!" ~ p.188.

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas", Completed 1897, Published 1921.

Moreover, the specific Yoruba obas; who are mentioned or alluded to in the above old Yoruba sayings shown in the foregoing quotations from the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson; are dated by historians to have ruled in the 1500s, the 1600s, and the 1700s respectively.

Furthermore, the attachment below shows a page from an 1899-published work — driving home the very same point I’m making here.

Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa and Its Inhabitants", Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265, and which is largely a translation of the French original published in 1873.

While all the foregoing instantly debunks his claim of post-1900 Yoruba use, our Bini entertainer will yet not dare provide even a shred of evidence to substantiate even a mere 121 years old Benin use of “oba” — let alone dare substantiate his own baseless/wild claim of 600 years old written account of Benin’s use of “oba”. Isn’t God wonderful!?
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Now to put all these into a clearer perspective for you @Afam4eva:

Each and every Yoruba kingdom actually use two distinct nouns in reference to its monarch:

(1) A common noun (“oba”) rendered in English as ”king” — lit. the “overlord”.

(2) A proper noun which generally varies from one Yoruba kingdom to another. E.g. “Ooni” for the Ife Kingdom; ”Alaafin” for the Oyo kingdom; etc.

D. M. Bondarenko makes this precise point about the two nouns when he wrote that:

““Ooni is Oba of Ife” or “the Oba of Oyo is Alaafin””

Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point”, History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30 (2003), pp. 71.
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This same culture of using two distinct nouns (a common noun and a proper noun) for the king is also found among the Binis as well as among the Itsekiris.

Among the Binis for example, the proper noun and traditional royal title is “Omonoba”; while ”oba” is the common noun, viz. “king” — Both are in use till date in Benin culture.

Among the Itsekiris in comparison to the above, the two nouns are “Olu” (similarly rendered in English as “king” — lit. the “premier” ) and ”ogiame”. Also, both are in use till date for the king among the Itsekiris.

The king’s designation in these cultures may therefore sometimes appear in full, thus showing both nouns, as follows:

Ooni Ife, Oba Adeyeye; or Omonoba N’Edo, Oba Ewuare; or Olu Iwere, Ogiame Ikenwoli; etc. (or some variation of this standard practice).

But sometimes, the designation may also appear in part as is seen in the listing which he himself has provided.

The listing does not feature the Yoruba kings’ use of ”oba”, just as the same listing does not feature the Bini king’s use of the royal title “Omonoba“ — which generally appears in his designation in addition to the word “oba” as already shown above.

Should we then conclude — in line with his fallacious logic — that the Bini royal title “Omonoba” was a post-1938 invention? Laughable, isn’t it?
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Anyways, I would love to see if someday he will manage to yield to the earlier request which I will make again below:

(a) Can you show me (or cite me) an expert evidence which supports your claim that “no Yoruba traditional ruler used the title until the 1900s”?

(b) Can you show me (or cite me) a “600” year old written record of the use of the word “Oba” for a Benin monarch — since you claimed there are such old written records?

Cheers!

PS: @Afam4eva, notice the subtle attempt at derailing the discussion into an issue of colonial salaries, even though it is basic knowledge that the salaries must have been proportional to the average periodic revenue generated from the respective areas.

cc: RuggedSniper, macof, LegendHero, MetaPhysical, BabaRamota1980

TAO11:
I know right!

The most pitiable thing about these disgruntled unrepentant liars is what you’ve just mentioned.

They know themselves to be liars even from the outset without anyone refuting them.

But their simple aim is to deceive as many unsuspecting people as possible.

That’s particularly why they rush to other threads to peddle the same absurdity for which they’ve just been flogged into oblivion.

samuk:
When the Benin debate history with the Yorubas, it's always unfair fight, it's like going into the battlefields will AK47 and bazooka and the Yoruba are holding pebbles and stones.

Imagine what a historical timeline like 1485, 1552, 1668, 1669, 1704 and 1897 does to them, with actual publication on Benin history in Amsterdam in 1668 and another in 1704 amongst many other European written records.

Our Yoruba friend want us to believe that the Benin Oba that sent an ambassador to the king of Portugal in the 16th century was not called Oba but king. These people will shamelessly hold to anything no matter how nonsensical it sounds to defend their falsehoods.

TAO11:
Lol Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265.

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment.

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames.



Etinosa1235
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Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO!
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In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting?

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!

gregyboy:



You don start again with your lies


The word oba has been used by the European since 1400 ad to address the Benin monarchy


And yorubas started using it to address their king after 1930


You just came out of oblivion and your first comment came with tears and lies

TAO11:
Lol Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265.

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment.

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames.
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Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO!
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In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting?

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!

TAO11:
Lol Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265.

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment.

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames.
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Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO!
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In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting?

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!

DenreleDave:
Afam4eva gregyboy


Una Don buy market from TAO11..

She go kill una with real and live evidences...



Welldone Tao, teach them

macof:


Tao Tao always giving them hard education. They of course will not take it because that's not what they are after but to prevent those who don't know better from taking their nonsense seriously it is important to give education

Imagine still asking for source that calls a Yoruba King ọba
Even after you explained that the word "ọba" is a common noun and Yoruba Kings are referred to by their styled titles.. A Bini person can't grasp this because to them "ọba" is a title (as a result of it being foreign to them) and "ogie" is the word for King

Permit me to add

1. "ọba" as a common noun doesn't necessarily mean a sovereign but any king or chief or honoured personage who presides over or dorminates something
For example, Ife nobles before the creation of a united ife were all known as Obas presiding over their quarters ie. Oba Idio, Oba Ejio, Oba Iloran, Oba Iwinrin etc and the most famous of them Obatala doubles as a deity.. Missionary sources of the mid 19th century mentions this name as a deity

Even the Peacock is an Ọba as the Yoruba would say "Ọkin ọba ẹyẹ"


2. Oranmiyan specifically intended to not raise his status when he was in Benin to that of an overall sovereign and held no styled title... Probably because he actually was not a sovereign considering the obstacles he met from Ogiamien
So this word "ọba" that some miscreants are trying to claim actually is not something they understand 
Rightly so as it is a foreign word and to them since their Sovereign is called by this word it must be a special title for a sovereign

3. In direct response to what the miscreant is trying to restrict the argument to.. That is, a particular king referred to with the word "oba". The first Ọmọnọba or Oba of Benin referred to in a document with the word "oba" is Ovonramwen and only in retrospect as this was after he had been deposed. Documents I have only date to 1906
.. If he can provide a document from an earlier date showing any Ọmọnọba before ovonramwen called "ọba" it would be very impressive but I doubt such document exist.

While you have provided earlier documents for your argument

macof:
Can you present any of these documents from 1485, 1552, 1668, 1669, 1704 and 1897 in Amsterdam and all over Europe using the word "oba" to refer to any King of Benin?
Simple task

I am glad this happened to someone like him on an Igbo-subject thread. He has in fact helped me spread accurate historical information across the Niger even though he hates that. The People now know better. We’d get there!

macof:


Can you present any of these documents from 1485, 1552, 1668, 1669, 1704 and 1897 in Amsterdam and all over Europe using the word "oba" to refer to any King of Benin?
Simple task

Igbo-subject thread?

Yoruba and ignorance, you don't even know the ethnic composition of your region and you want to debate history with Benin. You still call Ikwerre Igbo despite their no 1 citizen denying being Igbo. They actually claim Benin ancestry if that will help. These people don't need the Yoruba to tell them who there forebears were. Imagine the insinuation that the Oba title started with Oba Ovonramwen.

samuk:


Since you are insinuating that Benin kings were not called Oba, please kindly tell us what they were called.

macof:


Please provide evidence to your claims or do I take it that you have nothing to defend your claims? You have made some wild claims on this thread no single evidence

samuk:


Igbo-subject thread?

Yoruba and ignorance, you don't even know the ethnic composition of your region and you want to debate history with Benin. You still call Ikwerre Igbo despite their no 1 citizen denying being Igbo. They actually claim Benin ancestry if that will help. These people don't need the Yoruba to tell them who there forebears were. Imagine the insinuation that the Oba title started with Oba Ovonramwen.

samuk:


Your submission is very skewed and biased, you already concludes that certain tribes are Igbo before calling for DNA evidence.

Supposing a DNA analysis shows that all the people of southern and middle belt Nigeria are related, what name would you call them, would you then agree to be called Benin due to this blood relationship, because the name Benin is older than Igbo or should the Edo, Yoruba, Igala, Idoma etc, people that share this common blood
relationship now be called Igbo.

If you wouldn't agree to being called Benin, Igala or Idoma (all older names than Igbo), why then would you want Ikwerre or any other independent tribe outside the south east to accept the Igbo tag even if DNA shows blood relationship between these tribes and those that now call themselves Igbo.

Artificial names such as Igbo and Yoruba have to be agreed to by every one that want to be identified as such. Anioma is a collection of formerly different tribes that made up Delta North, all these tribes don't have issues being called Anioma today even though they have different heritages, Same way the old Bendelites were proud of the name Bendel. The name Igbo should be confined to south east rather than forcing tribes outside the south east to adopt it.


The name Igbo seems to be problem for those outside the south east to identify with, other tribes are not keen to associate with the people that currently goes by the social political name Igbo. The question should be why?

The Igbo can drop Igbo and adopt the name Ikwerre instead of Igbo for all the tribes in the south east, I am sure the Ikwerre people wouldn't mind. If you can't adopt Ikwerre why would you want Ikwerre to adopt Igbo identity.

macof:
You are always on yoruba threads to promote divide.. Always on igbo threads to do same

Everyone cannot be minority like you, sorry

Imagine saying Yoruba borrowed the word "ọba" from Bini language but can't provide evidence of Bini use of the language before 1900s

macof:


Tao Tao always giving them hard education. They of course will not take it because that's not what they are after but to prevent those who don't know better from taking their nonsense seriously it is important to give education

Imagine still asking for source that calls a Yoruba King ọba
Even after you explained that the word "ọba" is a common noun and Yoruba Kings are referred to by their styled titles.. A Bini person can't grasp this because to them "ọba" is a title (as a result of it being foreign to them) and "ogie" is the word for King

Permit me to add

1. "ọba" as a common noun doesn't necessarily mean a sovereign but any king or chief or honoured personage who presides over or dorminates something
For example, Ife nobles before the creation of a united ife were all known as Obas presiding over their quarters ie. Oba Idio, Oba Ejio, Oba Iloran, Oba Iwinrin etc and the most famous of them Obatala doubles as a deity.. Missionary sources of the mid 19th century mentions this name as a deity

Even the Peacock is an Ọba as the Yoruba would say "Ọkin ọba ẹyẹ"


2. Oranmiyan specifically intended to not raise his status when he was in Benin to that of an overall sovereign and held no styled title... Probably because he actually was not a sovereign considering the obstacles he met from Ogiamien
So this word "ọba" that some miscreants are trying to claim actually is not something they understand 
Rightly so as it is a foreign word and to them since their Sovereign is called by this word it must be a special title for a sovereign

3. In direct response to what the miscreant is trying to restrict the argument to.. That is, a particular king referred to with the word "oba". The first Ọmọnọba or Oba of Benin referred to in a document with the word "oba" is Ovonramwen and only in retrospect as this was after he had been deposed. Documents I have only date to 1906
.. If he can provide a document from an earlier date showing any Ọmọnọba before ovonramwen called "ọba" it would be very impressive but I doubt such document exist.

While you have provided earlier documents for your argument

macof:


You are always on yoruba threads to promote divide.. Always on igbo threads to do same

Everyone cannot be minority like you, sorry

Imagine saying Yoruba borrowed the word "ọba" from Bini language but can't provide evidence of Bini use of the word before 1900s

Alba3:
We should just try and accept people's choice of identity. Efik, Ibiobio, Oron, Annang refused to take one identity till today. It took some Ijebus, Ekitis, etc. sometimes to accept Yoruba as the common name, although the people know they are the same people but each was already formed based on city-state, confederate and dialect with boundaries and political identity that often led to wars among them to protect their heritage until British imposition of the name on everyone for political identity. This, Itshekiri never accepted till today ,and no one is forcing them; they identity as different tribe.

We have this virtually everywhere in Nigeria: Idoma-Alago, Ogori-Magogo, Igala-Yoruba, Urhobo-Isoko, Tiv-Norther Cross River tribes, etc.

TAO11:
You have made very beautiful submissions on the overall. It couldn’t have been better said by anyone else.

However, far from being very critical of your points — but just to further clarify one of them (the bolded particularly); the Itsekiris self-identify to the Europeans as belonging to the broader Yoruba ethnic group.

For example, the accounts of Captain H.L. Gallwey which he collected among the people in the 1800s has the following to say about their identity:

“Let me now refer briefly to the tribes that people this part of the world. First we come to the Jakris [Itsekiris], who are connected in race and language with the Yoruba people, extending from the Mahin country on the west to the Forcados on the East, and inland about as far as Sapele.”

Reference: H.L. Gallwey, “Journeys in the Benin Country, West Africa”, The Geographical Journal, Vol. 1, No. 2 (Feb., 1893), p.127.

Furthermore, H. Ling Roth also published the following statement to the same effect in the year 1903:

“In this respect, however, the officials agree with the tradition of the people at Warri, the Jekries [Itsekiris], who claim to come from the west.”

Reference: H.L. Roth, ”Great Benin: Its Customs, Arts and Horrors”, F. King & Sons, Ltd., 1903, pp.8-9.

As such, the (understandable) naiveness of many of their young people on this issue is only a relatively recent modern development — rather than an age-long historical reality.

But to be fair to their present-day older generation, the information available to Itsekiri’s informed leaders of thought appears to be in stark conflict with the youthful imaginations of these younger generations.

For example, the reigning Olu, Ogiame Ikenwoli I regards himself as a member of the Oduduwa household from Ife (via the Benin royal line). So also is Pastor Oritsejafor who as an Itsekiri man admits his Yoruba heritage in unequivocal terms.

Peace!

Alba3:


We should just try and accept people's choice of identity. Efik, Ibiobio, Oron, Annang refused to take one identity till today. It took some Ijebus, Ekitis, etc. sometimes to accept Yoruba as the common name, although the people know they are the same people but each was already formed based on city-state, confederate and dialect with boundaries and political identity that often led to wars among them to protect their heritage until British imposition of the name on everyone for political identity. This, Itshekiri never accepted till today ,and no one is forcing them; they identity as different tribe.

We have this virtually everywhere in Nigeria: Idoma-Alago, Ogori-Magogo, Igala-Yoruba, Urhobo-Isoko, Tiv-Norther Cross River tribes, etc.

Alba3:


We should just try and accept people's choice of identity. Efik, Ibiobio, Oron, Annang refused to take one identity till today. It took some Ijebus, Ekitis, etc. sometimes to accept Yoruba as the common name, although the people know they are the same people but each was already formed based on city-state, confederate and dialect with boundaries and political identity that often led to wars among them to protect their heritage until British imposition of the name on everyone for political identity. This, Itshekiri never accepted till today ,and no one is forcing them; they identity as different tribe.

We have this virtually everywhere in Nigeria: Idoma-Alago, Ogori-Magogo, Igala-Yoruba, Urhobo-Isoko, Tiv-Norther Cross River tribes, etc.