TAO11:
DISTRACTIVE SUPER STORIES!! Face your burden below:

(1) Where is the evidence for your claim that written evidence exists going back “600 years” ago showing the use of “oba” in relation to Benin monarchy??

(2) Your requested 1800s written evidence from Yoruba has been provided.

Now don’t be a hypocrite in addition to being an illiterate. You have to be man enough to meet the standard which you yourself have set.

Provide us an 1800s written document from Benin — before then substantiating your own claim of “600 years” ago.

We are waiting!
cc: Afam4eva

———————
PS: Lest I forget the Ife-Benin Connection (which you’re dead-scared of), refer to the attached screenshot of an archaeological evidence of a ‘bronze’ plaque depicting your Oba. It was recovered from an old slave-quarters at Ife.

Any right thinking Bini would for once have asked himself what his king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit. But unfortunately, I ain’t dealing with a right-thinking person at the moment.

Please give me link to that site of that picture on the oba of benin artwork


Afam4eva
RedboneSmith


Please help me beg help me to give me the link

macof:
As far as Bini miscreant logic always goes, if there is no documented evidence it does not exist. Therefore absence of pre-1900s documentation of Bini use of the word "oba" means..The King of Benin only recently became known as Ọba of Benin after copying the Yorubas

Please argue with your Google search board not me

This will really pepper them

Lol, i agree but what was the name oba was called atleast the Europeans should have written it original name

TAO11:
Distractive Super Story!

Everyone is waiting for your Benin evidence of the actual “oba” issue at hand — in line with your claims.

cc: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, macof, scholes0, juliusmalema


———————————
PS on the distractive comment about the “Ife-Benin Connection” of which you all have lately decided to live in denial:

See the first screenshot below one more time, and go figure what your king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit — especially in an interesting site.

~ This screenshot is taken from: S.P. Blier, “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300”; Cambridge University Press, 2015, p.213. (A free full-access digital copy of this work is not readily available as of yet, only a free preview copy with limited content is available online as of now).
.
.
.
See also the two following screenshots of ancient Ife’s early terra-cotta heads produced obviously in the ‘Benin style’, and come tell us more about how the ancient connection never existed. Lol!

~ These screenshots are taken from: [url=https://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=%22Ife+terracottas%22] The Smithsonian Institution’s Online Collections[/url]. Click it! (The two images of terre-cotta among others — as well as images of some popular ancient Ife ‘bronze’ figures — all entered into this institution’s collections sometimes between 1984 and 1998).

This honestly deserves its own thread

scholes0:


This honestly deserves its own thread

I know, right!

And I really appreciate so much bro!I am just not the type that creates threads.

Also, please feel free to grab the right to collect together the pieces/contents (if you please) and make it into a thread. Go for it bro! I will appreciate.

TAO11:
Great to hear that you are already going in the same direction where the facts have been going so far on this thread.

Just to be clear on the point I’ve been making so far on this thread so I am not misconstrued:

(1) I haven’t claimed that “oba” was never used by the Binis until the 1900s.

(2) I haven’t claimed that there is no 1800s writing which uses the word “oba” ARGUABLY in relation to Benin monarchy — although none of them is yet able to provide an 1800s writing depicting even such ARGUABLE use.


Rather, my position is as follows for the umpteenth time:

(1) The original claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there is no pre-1900 written evidence which uses the word “oba” in relation to Yoruba monarchy) is ignorantly false and laughable — And I demonstrated my position with actual evidence.

(2) The modified claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there is no pre-1900 written evidence which mentions a Yoruba monarch by name alongside the word “oba”) is also ignorantly false and laughable — And I demonstrated my position with actual evidence.

(3) The claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there exist some “600 years” old written evidence of “oba” usage for Beni monarchs) is a bogus and delusional claim that has absolutely no basis.

(4) In response to his modified claims, there is in fact no written evidence either from the 1800s, or 1700s, or 1600s, or 1500s, etc. which mentions a Benin monarch by name, and with the description “Oba”.

(5) In response to his original claims, there is in fact no written evidence from the 1800s which uses “oba” in clear-cut unequivocal relation to any kingdom called Benin, Beny, Ubini, Ibini, Ado, Igodomigodo, or any other name for that matter by which Benin kingdom may be identified.

Neither is there any written evidence of any sort at all from the 1700s, 1600s, or 1500s, etc. which shows the word “oba” at all for their monarchs.

Having said all that, a final acid test which would in fact close and conclude this discourse for you — as to who originally owns the word “oba” — is to consider the word itself (i.e. “oba” ) from the lenses of each of the two respective languages themselves, viz. the Yoruba language and the Edo language.

From the lenses of the Yoruba language, the syllabic components of the word “ọba” are (obviously) “ọ” and “ba”.

The meaning of this base word “ba” in the Yoruba language is clear and accessible even to the average speaker — it means: to “overlord”, etc.

Its prefix “ọ“ describes the noun who performs the action conveyed by the base word. Innumerable similar examples as this abound in everyday usage.

In sum, the word ”ọba” — from the lenses of the Yoruba language — means: the “one who overlords”, or “the overlord” for short.

Notice how this meaning (via the Yoruba language lenses) fits monarchy like a glove.

Guess what! The same thing can not be said from the Edo point of view. And the reason for that is not far-fetched at all — a loanword can not possibly be meaningfully analyzed from the point of view of the recipient-language.

You may challenge one of them for a correspondingly similar analysis from the lenses of the Edo language in order to note the ensuing meaninglessness for yourself.

cc: RedboneSmith, macof

————————
PS: The following remark is in relation to a foregoing comment by the Benin Vice-Clown-In-Chief where he notes that I must provide evidence of EuRoPeAn writing:

^^ I’m certain that you are aware that no where did I or any other sane person claim that Europeans visited Africa prior to the present and second dynasty of the Binis.

I trust that you are also aware that the obligation to prove an assertion lies with whoever makes the said assertion.

I haven’t seen anyone on this Nairaland that is well versed in this Benin/Yoruba history like you so I give great kudos to you TAO.

For the Oba that you analyzed, you are very right.

The word ba like you said is to overlord.

Ba ale - Husband -Leader (lord) of the house
Ba ale - District chief - Lord of the land
Ba logun- The lord (leader) of war
I ba Oluyole
And etc, you can always see that the word ba is deeply rooted in the Yoruba language with the same meaning of lord(leader).

LegendHero:


I haven’t seen anyone on this Nairaland that is well versed in this Benin/Yoruba history like you so I give great kudos to you TAO.

For the Oba that you analyzed, you are very right.

The word ba like you said is to overlord.

Ba ale - Husband -Leader (lord) of the house
Ba ale - District chief - Lord of the land
Ba logun- The lord (leader) of war

And etc, you can always see that the word [b]ba[/b]is deeply rooted in the Yoruba language with the same meaning of lord(leader).

Thanks bro! I appreciate so much, and your analysis is valid valid.

valirex:
Present a written evidence of what the Ọbas of Benin were called from 1500-1900

Written evidence?? = “King” (Final answer!). Lol! /s

——————
On Screenshots: The 1st = quotation from the 1400s. The 2nd = quotation from the 2000s. The 3rd = quotation from the 1800s.

TAO11:
Written evidence?? = “King” (Final answer!). Lol! /s

Wasn't expecting anything substantial from you in the first placed

Case closed you have no evidence, no Yoruba king was addressed as oba prior to 1897

You’re right! Lol! /s

TAO11:
You’re right! Lol! /s

If Oba of Benin were called king, when did Benin copy the word Oba from the Yorubas, is it before they conquered Yoruba land, or during the conquest or after Yoruba liberation by Britain.

Please if you are coming with the Benin/Ife relationship nonsense, make sure you come with scholarly evidence that is older than the 1800s.

samuk:
[s]If Oba of Benin were called king, when did Benin copy the word Oba from the Yorubas, is it before they conquered Yoruba land, or during the conquest or after Yoruba liberation by Britain.

Please if you are coming with the Benin/Ife relationship nonsense, make sure you come with scholarly evidence that is older than the 1800s.[/s]

Will you bundle your ragtag, frail, sickling self out of here and go bury your head in books!? Nonsense!

You have a yet unmet burden of proof to provide a pre-1900s written evidence which shows “oba” for the Benin monarch.

You caused yourself this trouble by seeking a similar evidence from me — which I have met time and time again on this same thread.

I have the right to mock your agitated brother as I have sarcastically done above; even though I’m aware that I have no burden of proof whatsoever, you do.

This is the actual issue. You have to stop the distractive tactic. It has not helped you at any point all along, despite your attempts.

I can also confidently assure you that it will not help you at any time on this thread. Help yourself by meeting your own burden of proof!

We are waiting!

cc: Afam4eva, macof, scholes0, Juliusmalema



—————————
PS on the distractive comment about the “Ife-Benin Connection” of which you all have lately chosen to live in denial:

See the first screenshot below one more time, and go figure what your king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit — especially in an interesting site.

~ This screenshot is taken from:
S.P. Blier, “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p.213.

A free full-access digital copy of this work is not readily available online as of yet, only a free preview copy with limited content is currently available online.
.
.
.
See also the two following screenshots of an ancient Ife’s terra-cotta head produced obviously in the ‘Benin style’, and come tell us more about how the ancient connection never existed. Lol!

~ These screenshots are taken from:
[url=https://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=%22Ife+terracottas%22]The Smithsonian Institution’s Online Collections[/url].
Click it!

These two images of the terra-cotta head (among others) — as well as images of some popular ancient Ife ‘bronze’ heads — all entered into this institution’s collections sometimes between 1981 and 1994.

samuk:


You can't choose and pick which account that suits you. I provided about 22 references that reported the trial/events and as you can seen, several people reported on the trial. You have only provided one report without citing your sources.

Are you now claiming that Oba Ovonramwen was also not oba in the 1897, after earlier stating that you are not disputing that Benin used the word Oba in the 1800s Make up your mind. Haven't agreed that there are documented evidence that referenced oba of Benin in th 1800s, I was expecting you to demand for 1700s and earlier and stop trying to be clever by half.

After admitting that there are documented evidence of Benin using the word Oba in the 1800s, there was really no need to then supply you documented evidence for what you already admitted to. I only did it because of those you are trying to Deceive.

Smart

Afam4eva RedboneSmith macof and the others i hope you will follow this thread with absolute caution,

They are claims and counter claims, the thread will surely end when the other parties is in a deadlock so dont perch your tent yet keep the fingers crossed


TAO11 said benins never used the word oba and it was originally that of the yorubas with some fake reference to a Yoruba scholar samuel johnson who used the word oba because he new how recognize it is to the Europeans because of benin influence, he decided to use it as a generic term for kingship in his book neglecting other generic words for king in Yoruba land

Here is a screenshot of the word oba used in the trial of the oba of benin in 1897

The red underline is the word obaseki spelt abbaseki by the British

Obaski is the greatgrand father of the pressnt governor of edo state

The meaning of the word obaski means, the king is greater than a market


This showed that the word oba was in used by the benin in 1800,
But why wasnt the word oba use in the European text to represent king, probably the full title of the oba would be difficult to write or probably to make explanations easier in their text they just skipped is title and put king instead


My stance remain samuel. J was the first yoruba person on earth to refer to all yoruba kings as oba, first of all at the time he was writing yoruba were not historically united, not to say coming together by themselves to form a generic name for kings, Samuel j probably used the word oba as a generic word for king to yoruba kings to promote his book to already familiar European people with the word oba

TAO11:
Distractive Super Story!

Everyone is waiting for your Benin evidence of the actual “oba” issue at hand — in line with your claims.

cc: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, macof, scholes0, juliusmalema


———————————
PS on the distractive comment about the “Ife-Benin Connection” of which you all have lately chosen to live in denial:

See the first screenshot below one more time, and go figure what your king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit — especially in an interesting site.

~ This screenshot is taken from:
S.P. Blier, “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p.213.

A free full-access digital copy of this work is not readily available online as of yet, only a free preview copy with limited content is currently available online.
.
.
.
See also the two following screenshots of an ancient Ife’s early terra-cotta head produced obviously in the ‘Benin style’, and come tell us more about how the ancient connection never existed. Lol!

~ These screenshots are taken from:
[url=https://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=%22Ife+terracottas%22]The Smithsonian Institution’s Online Collections[/url].
Click it!

These two images of a terra-cotta head (among others) — as well as images of some popular ancient Ife ‘bronze’ heads — all entered into this institution’s collections sometimes between 1981 and 1994.

Can you send down the pdf of the[/b] Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300 by Suzanne Preston Blier


From what i can see on goggle you have to pay for the book to get it from amazon, you definitely used research gate, probably your school details in the us,

Anyway please share the pdf here lets download it, or atleast give us screenshot of pages from the pdf that would help



Let me start discrediting


That benin sculpture was madd in the 17c, after the Europeans had arrived benin. Centuries longago, but, how the Europeans managed to skip benin-ife relationships on their writeup at 17 century is my biggest imagination on earth
They mentioned benin-owo, benin-itskeri, benin-jebbu, benin-eko and so many other yorubas but they managed to skip benin-ife even when they shared sculpture... Lol something smell fishy dont you think... TAO11 the benin obsessed retard lady


That sculpture is only found in two places benin and owo biller is probably mistaken owo as ife...

If it was found in this century or the last definitely it would be in the nigeria museum, just like that false ooni of ife copper found in the benin palace
It would have stampings to were it was found and the mesuem it is now allocated to

Do you have those viable details to backup the sculpture really came out from ife......



Again for the second pics the terracotta seems to be newly made around late last century 1981


I need every detail possible to ascertain that sculpture was gotten from ife definitely blier was not there when the sculpture was dugged she could be told false information to promote benin-ife lies for supiority sake, so were did blier get are information and did she verify the sculpture was really dugged from ife instetof benin or owo


Afam4eva, macof TAO11, Etinosa1234, valirex, samuk, AreaFada2

TAO11:
Will you bundle your ragtag, frail, sickling self out of here and go bury your head in books!? Nonsense!

You have a yet unmet burden of proof to provide a pre-1900s written evidence which shows “oba” for the Benin monarch.

You caused yourself this trouble by seeking a similar evidence from me — which I have met time and time again on this same thread.

I have the right to mock your agitated brother as I have sarcastically done above; even though I’m aware that I have no burden of proof whatsoever, you do.

This is the actual issue. You have to stop the distractive tactic. It has not helped you at any point all along, despite your attempts.

I can also confidently assure you that it will not help you at any time on this thread. Help yourself by meeting your own burden of proof!

We are waiting!

cc: Afam4eva, macof, scholes0, Juliusmalema



—————————
PS on the distractive comment about the “Ife-Benin Connection” of which you all have lately chosen to live in denial:

See the first screenshot below one more time, and go figure what your king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit — especially in an interesting site.

~ This screenshot is taken from:
S.P. Blier, “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p.213.

A free full-access digital copy of this work is not readily available online as of yet, only a free preview copy with limited content is currently available online.
.
.
.
See also the two following screenshots of an ancient Ife’s terra-cotta head produced obviously in the ‘Benin style’, and come tell us more about how the ancient connection never existed. Lol!

~ These screenshots are taken from:
[url=https://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=%22Ife+terracottas%22]The Smithsonian Institution’s Online Collections[/url].
Click it!

These two images of the terra-cotta head (among others) — as well as images of some popular ancient Ife ‘bronze’ heads — all entered into this institution’s collections sometimes between 1981 and 1994.

My two different search


Oba of benin sculpture found in ife no picture surfaced, i begin to wonder is biller now mad or so desperate to link benin to ife to sell her book by making false claims or is it TAO11 the benin-ife desperado

Third goggle search, false ooni of ife sculpture found in oba palace and a picture surface



The last picture shows the benin queen mothers head was recently made around 1980


Afam4eva TAO11, TAO12, samuk, macof, Etinosa1234

Edeyoung:


Lol, i agree but what was the name oba was called atleast the Europeans should have written it original name

You are trying o. To tolerate these "agents provocateurs". If not careful they will incite you to rofo rofo in the mud with them.

Anybody from SW with a recent citation index access is now an expert in history.

samuk:


If Oba of Benin were called king, when did Benin copy the word Oba from the Yorubas, is it before they conquered Yoruba land, or during the conquest or after Yoruba liberation by Britain.

Please if you are coming with the Benin/Ife relationship nonsense, make sure you come with scholarly evidence that is older than the 1800s.

Sam sam, they won't find any. It will be like toto hair before lazy yoot began stealing pants for ritual. So they will be bringing some supposedly old publications to obfuscate.

I like the way Benin history is keeping them busy. Make dem dey butcher rotten meat. No hand to scratch body.

AreaFada2:
[s]Sam sam, they won't find any. It will be like toto hair before lazy yoot began stealing pants for ritual. So they will be bringing some supposedly old publications to obfuscate.

I like the way Benin history is keeping them busy. Make dem dey butcher rotten meat. No hand to scratch body. [/s]

Let’s welcome on board the illiterate-in-chief 1 of Benin kingdom — the AreaDullard himself.

Perhaps, you will be the messiah whom your fellow clowns have been awaiting to bring the evidence required in meeting the inane standard that they have (unknowingly) set for themselves — which I am simply holding them to.

Now with regards to the bolded above, I do not (for the umpteenth time) have even an atom-weight burden of proof to present any such early writing.

It’s high time you all mustered the courage to pick up a book and read up on what ’burden of proof’ is. You all’s celebration of illiteracy is appalling!

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit — that is: the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

In other words, at no point did I ever claim to have any pre-1900 written evidence of some alternative word which was allegedly used in the pre-1900s to describe a Benin monarch. I never made any such claim.

In sum: If it is not claimed, it is not an obligation to be fulfilled.

Instead, it is the Benin clown-in-cheifs who made the delusional chesty claim of a “600 years” old [or even a 19th century] writing which allegedly identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

Given that a claim was made in this case, it then necessarily follows — from a logical standpoint — that a burden of proof is to be borne.

But unfortunately, we are yet to see any such evidence come to life from our Benin clowns. What a shame!?

Having said that, I for a fact have gone beyond the call of duty (having no burden of written evidence) to have substantiated some very specific position which I didn’t even (originally) claim. Lol! Isn’t that amazing?

I have submitted multiple, independent, pre-1900 written evidence which in some cases names (and in other cases simply describes) a particular Yoruba monarch as “Oba”.

You all should wake up and smell the coffee. Provide the evidence for your claim that there exists some “600 years” old [or even 19th century] writings which names/identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

None has been provided so far. Help each other if you must.

Peace!

cc: @Afam4eva, @macof, @RedboneSmith, @scholes0

AreaFada2:


Sam sam, they won't find any. It will be like toto hair before lazy yoot began stealing pants for ritual. So they will be bringing some supposedly old publications to obfuscate.

I like the way Benin history is keeping them busy. Make dem dey butcher rotten meat. No hand to scratch body.

Oga, I never knew how serious the Yoruba project to steal Benin history was until I started reading madam copy and past lecturer on Nairaland. She knows that most Nigerians of this generation that are on this forum are not very well informed in history, so she confused them with her copy and paste citations which she usually misrepresents and obfuscate to deceive and hoodwink her audience who don't usually crosscheck those references. She gets are mojo from their adulation.

I don't know if you still remember the last major thread on Benin/Ife relationship before she went on long sabbatical. That thread ended on 52 pages with her making so many unsubstantiated claims she couldn't prove.

1. She claimed there is a burial site in Ife for Benin obas since the 1100s - the site was excavated by a white archeologist and found nothing. The supposed burial pits were empty. Same her that is now insinuating on this thread that there is no evidence that Benin used the word Oba earlier than 1800s. So her Oro Oba Ado in Ife is fake according to her recent claims. You can't claim to have Oro Oba Ado in Ife since 1100s and now be asking Benin to give you prove that they used the word Oba earlier than 1800s. You already told us you have the prove in Ife or have you forgotten. She is not very clever, the ability to copy and paste garbage doesn't make anyone smart. You are only smarter than those that lacks the ability to see through the deceptions you are presenting as academic works.

Link to Yoruba Oro Oba Ado since 1100s till 1800s

https://www.nairaland.com/1794927/ile-ife-final-rest-place-oba#24390068

2. She tried to claim Organe that was mentioned by a Portuguese visitor to Benin in the 1400s as Ife but the description, direction and distance from Benin didn't fit, so she abandoned it. I don't know how Organe and Ife even resembles in name.

3. She then claimed a 12 century Yufi as Ife, with citation as usual only for Davidnazee to brink prove that situated Ufi in Zimbabwe, south Africa, she ran away.

4. She tried to argue that Benin didn't started Lagos monarchy and once ruled over Lagos, evidence from the Oba of Lagos himself was provided and the account of a Dutch man who visited Lagos in 1603 and met the place under Benin control was presented.

Now she is cleverly dancing around insinuating without coming out clearly to claim categorically that Benin didn't have Oba pre-1800s, she is hiding behind two fingers to be demanding for European evidence.

This is the same person that have spent years telling everyone who cares to read that Oba of Benin have a special burial site called Oro Oba Ado in Ife since the 1100s, after bursting her several bubbles she now found a new angle of Yoruba owning the word Oba.

She has refused to answer the simple questions of when Benin copied the Yoruba title from the Yorubas.

1. Was it before Benin conquest of Yoruba land?
2. During the time Yoruba land was occupied and under Benin empire or
3. After 1897 when the British destroyed Benin and liberated the Yoruba states being controlled by Benin.

It's not good enough to just say Yoruba own the word Oba because it's now widely used in Yoruba land. Please also tell you readers who may actually be ignorant or pretending to be ignorant of the fact that the Benin empire existed and ended in 1897.

Throughout history it's usually an empire that leaves behind legacies, system and names for others to copy, like Rome and Greek left the world with so many word such as Olympics, senate or senator, garrison, legion etc, that we are still using today.

In Nigeria everything has to be upside down so much so that the Yorubas are now claiming that it's the Benin empire that ended in 1897 that turned around to copy their Oba title from the Yoruba confederacy that started in late 1800s after the Benin empire ended.

It's like arguing that the Romans copied the monarchical system from Britain. It's only an ignorant person that doesn't know that Rome came before Britain and Britain was under Roman control that will believe this.

The Benin empire and her relationship with Yoruba was purely that of a colonial master and subjects and control of trades in Yoruba land with tributes being paid back to Benin, nothing about blood relationship with Ife.

The Benin/Ife relationship was created around 1930, that is why no one including madam copy and paste in chief can't provide any evidence beyond 1800s to prove her claims. Show us sometime beyond 1800s to prove Benin/Ife connection.

In their desperation, they now buy Benin sculptures at Igun street Benin city to be buried somewhere in Ife for someone to dug up and point to it as the link between Benin and Ife.

Edeyoung:




Youre manipulative i never read this before i know it will be scrap

Why would you quote me a yoruba author who knew that attaching the word oba to yoruba kings it would help his book to sell



As for the French Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265



I check the reference and there was nothing there relating to any yoruba

If you're talking about the revised version rewriting in 1899, then you must be joking

First of all at 1899 all yorubas already knew how powerful the word oba was if use to adress themselves and elisee Reclus probably even have the demited book of Samuel
Johnson to have been able to call yoruba kings obba



My stance remains that before samuel johson wrote his demitted book history of yorubas
No yoruba used the word oba as a generic term for yoruba kings and before 1930 before it became officially used


I would burst your bubble do you know why samuel johson did a way with many general words for king in Yorubaland like olu, deji, kaybeyesi, because he knew those words wont sell if it was writing it to the Europeans unlike when he used the word OBA which is more recognized to the Europeans

I would bet that at the time samuel johson wrote that book the word oba was not even know to oyo people, unlike the eastern yorubas who used the words because of influence from benins the original owner of the word ,samuel johnson he only got to know the word oba because he was educated and had read books written by Europeans on the oba of benin


Afam4eva do you know that yorubas have so many words they could adopt for a generic term for king names like
1) olu= we get them in titles like olu of ibadan, olu of warri
2) deji= deji of akure,
3= owa=Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti, Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti,

Then we have kabeyesi= meaning royal highness

Yet they decided to choose the word oba

The question is which title originally bore the word oba amongst the yoruba kings before 1930 apart from the oba of beni., you will see its none

If you doubt me bring a source older than 1897


Please lets see the original copy of elisee reculus
Before the translation if she used the word obba in an original text

RedboneSmith

AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Etinosa1234
Etrusen

TAO11, I told you this miscreants have no sense and are beyond educating

Just look at this mess of a comment that they all liked this is the level of intelligence of 4 of the most active Bini persons on this forum oh man

@Edeyoung, this exact piece of shiit you call a response is similar to the nonsense you posted before with your other moniker Gregyboy or whatever, but this is even dumber

1. There's no "French Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265"
What an uneducated clout
The French has a totally different citation structure
You don't just slam "French" to the beginning of my citation and think you have changed everything

And there is no revised version, there is only re-editing, hence the several Volumes. And you already mentioned the 12th Volume from 1882, so what's the idea of your emphasis on the year 1899 as if there isn't already the one you've seen which I shared from 1882
Which by the way isn't the first publication but 12th

2. "Probably.." "my stance.." , "do you know why.." "I would bet.."
Such an uneducated fellow.
Provide documented evidence not probability, stances and imaginative Did you knows

As documented evidence has shown Yoruba Kings refered to as Ọba since at least the mid 19th century not 1930

You see evidence you still want to bet against yourself what a clown

3. If all the examples you mentioned like deji, owatapa etc are generic why are they specific to those Kings? or you don't know what generic means
How many times will they tell you that these are styled titles specific to that particular king.. Reason you don't have 10 Dejis running 10 kingdoms or 16 Owatapa running 16 different kingdoms

They've told you this but you get coconut head
Anyway if you can say your omonoba is a liar for saying his ancestor is Oranmiyan, your case is like pouring water into a basket


4. Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12712594_20201120li_jpeg669beaef00c457b182431ec02a16e2d9
That is published in 1882, read it again 1882
Therefore fulfilling your very first request to provide a pre-1900s documentation of the word "oba" in reference to King by Yorubas

And none of the volumes of "the earth and its inhabitants" are mere translations, they are editions
Each standing on its own as a valid source material or documented evidence
Chai, to skip school no good o

And who's she?

macof:


TAO11, I told you this miscreants have no sense and are beyond educating

Just look at this mess of a comment that they all liked this is the level of intelligence of 4 of the most active Bini persons on this forum oh man

@Edeyoung, this exact piece of shiit you call a response is similar to the nonsense you posted before with your other moniker Gregyboy or whatever, but this is even dumber

1. There's no "French Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265"
What an uneducated clout
The French has a totally different citation structure
You don't just slam "French" to the beginning of my citation and think you have changed everything

And there is no revised version, there is only re-editing, hence the several Volumes. And you already mentioned the 12th Volume from 1882, so what's the idea of your emphasis on the year 1899 as if there isn't already the one you've seen which I shared from 1882
Which by the way isn't the first publication but 12th

2. "Probably.." "my stance.." , "do you know why.." "I would bet.."
Such an uneducated fellow.
Provide documented evidence not probability, stances and imaginative Did you knows

As documented evidence has shown Yoruba Kings refered to as Ọba since at least the mid 19th century not 1930

You see evidence you still want to bet against yourself what a clown

3. If all the examples you mentioned like deji, owatapa etc are generic why are they specific to those Kings? or you don't know what generic means
How many times will they tell you that these are styled titles specific to that particular king.. Reason you don't have 10 Dejis running 10 kingdoms or 16 Owatapa running 16 different kingdoms

They've told you this but you get coconut head
Anyway if you can say your omonoba is a liar for saying his ancestor is Oranmiyan, your case is like pouring water into a basket


4. Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12712594_20201120li_jpeg669beaef00c457b182431ec02a16e2d9
That is published in 1882, read it again 1882
Therefore fulfilling your very first request to provide a pre-1900s documentation of the word "oba" in reference to King by Yorubas

And none of the volumes of "the earth and its inhabitants" are mere translations, they are editions
Each standing on its own as a valid source material or documented evidence
Chai, to skip school no good o

And who's she?

Lol. Delusions is real I tell you.

We are still waiting for 600 years of written evidence for days now.

Notice also as the clown-in-chief above is lying blatantly and trying hard to distract to different issues which I have long proven and established in the past.

.
.
.

Having said that there seems to be a mistake in that reference of the embedded image. It should be: “Africa and Its Inhabitants”

macof:


TAO11, I told you this miscreants have no sense and are beyond educating

Just look at this mess of a comment that they all liked this is the level of intelligence of 4 of the most active Bini persons on this forum oh man

@Edeyoung, this exact piece of shiit you call a response is similar to the nonsense you posted before with your other moniker Gregyboy or whatever, but this is even dumber

1. There's no "French Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265"
What an uneducated clout
The French has a totally different citation structure
You don't just slam "French" to the beginning of my citation and think you have changed everything

And there is no revised version, there is only re-editing, hence the several Volumes. And you already mentioned the 12th Volume from 1882, so what's the idea of your emphasis on the year 1899 as if there isn't already the one you've seen which I shared from 1882
Which by the way isn't the first publication but 12th

2. "Probably.." "my stance.." , "do you know why.." "I would bet.."
Such an uneducated fellow.
Provide documented evidence not probability, stances and imaginative Did you knows

As documented evidence has shown Yoruba Kings refered to as Ọba since at least the mid 19th century not 1930

You see evidence you still want to bet against yourself what a clown

3. If all the examples you mentioned like deji, owatapa etc are generic why are they specific to those Kings? or you don't know what generic means
How many times will they tell you that these are styled titles specific to that particular king.. Reason you don't have 10 Dejis running 10 kingdoms or 16 Owatapa running 16 different kingdoms

They've told you this but you get coconut head
Anyway if you can say your omonoba is a liar for saying his ancestor is Oranmiyan, your case is like pouring water into a basket


4. Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; The earth and Its Inhabitants, Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12712594_20201120li_jpeg669beaef00c457b182431ec02a16e2d9
That is published in 1882, read it again 1882
Therefore fulfilling your very first request to provide a pre-1900s documentation of the word "oba" in reference to King by Yorubas

And none of the volumes of "the earth and its inhabitants" are mere translations, they are editions
Each standing on its own as a valid source material or documented evidence
Chai, to skip school no good o

And who's she?

When your fabrication ain't tight you call your opponents miscreants, I understand the painment you are in

valirex:


When your fabrication ain't tight you call your opponents miscreants, I understand the painment you are in

You have always been miscreants.

So I fabricated an 1882 document
I did not know I had such powers

macof:


You have always been miscreants.

So I fabricated an 1882 document
I did not know I had such powers

We claim to own the word Ọba and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it than to rant online that makes you a miscreant

valirex:


We claim to own the word Ọba and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it than to rant online that makes you a miscreant

As far as your logic goes, your king only became known as oba after ovonramwen was deposed. You can claim whatever but it only makes you out to be stupidd when you claim against facts and evidence

You have been arguing with Google for 4 days or so now.
One of you even brought online dictionary as evidence and you say you are not miscreants

macof:

As far as your logic goes, your king only became known as oba after ovonramwen was deposed. You can claim whatever but it only makes you out to be stupidd when you claim against facts and evidence

You have been arguing with Google for 4 days or so now.
One of you even brought online dictionary as evidence and you say you are not miscreants

You are online and can't stop us so that makes you a miscreant

samuk:
Unfortunately, you can't just wish away the over 400 years of Benin subjugation of Yoruba.

The relationship between Benin and Yoruba was that of colonial master and subject, the Igbo shouldn't get it confused.

There is not Benin/Ife relationship. The fallacy was created in 1800s,nothing before then in Benin history. Those that have contrary views can provide evidence.

The Benin and Yoruba people are different people.

subjugation in your mind you mean

I don't see you provide documentation of this. Provide the 400 year old document that says Bini subjugated yorubas

TAO11:
Let’s welcome on board the illiterate-in-chief 1 of Benin kingdom — the AreaDullard himself.

Perhaps, you will be the messiah whom your fellow clowns need to meet the inane standard they have (unknowingly) set for themselves — which I am simply holding them to.

Now with regards to the bolded above, I do not (for the umpteenth time) have even an atom-weight burden of proof to present any such early writing.

It’s high time you all mustered the courage to pick up a book and read up on what ’burden of proof’ is. You all’s celebration of illiteracy is appalling!

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit — that is: the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

In other words, at no point did I ever claim to have any pre-1900 written evidence of some alternative word which was allegedly used in the pre-1900s to describe a Benin monarch. I never made any such claim.

In sum: If it is not claimed, it is not an obligation to be fulfilled.

Instead, it is the Benin clown-in-cheifs who made the delusional chesty claim of a “600 years” old [or even a 19th century] writing which allegedly identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

Given that a claim was made in this case, it then necessarily follows — from a logical standpoint — that a burden of proof is to be borne.

But unfortunately, we are yet to see any such evidence come to life from our Benin clowns. What a shame!?

Having said that, I for a fact have gone beyond the call of duty (having no burden of written evidence) to have substantiated some very specific position which I didn’t even (originally) claim. Lol! Isn’t that amazing?

I have submitted multiple, independent, pre-1900 written evidence which in some cases names (and in other cases simply describes) a particular Yoruba monarch as “Oba”.

You all should wake up and smell the coffee. Provide the evidence for your claim that the there exists some “600 years” old [or even 19th century] writings which identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

None has been provided so far. Help each other if you must.

Peace!

cc: @Afam4eva, @macof, @RedboneSmith, @scholes0

You dont get it do you,


If there was no benin-ife connection then there was no oromiyan coming to establish an oba dynasty


We will be faced with how did the word oba find is way to benin or yoruba land

then we will begin to trace benin sovereignty over yorubas,


This would further explain, the word Oba was borrowed from the benin people by the yorubas since there was no ife benin connection
That ought to have brought the word




Yes, i have done my research for now all documents from the British, regards the oba of benin as king in their text and not oba as we all had thought, but this does not remove the fact his title was different from oba, as a matter of fact during the British trial of oba ovaremwen, some chiefs who bore the name and the prefix oba in their names like. obaseki, obayuwana were also tried with their name spelt out, this shows that, the word oba is not new in benin even if it wasn't used to adress the oba of benin ein the British text that was the Europeans palavaba and not the benin


Why not concentrate your efforts on researching on the ife benin connection
you now seem to be scared of gregyboy , i guess i beat your lean ass blue black in our last debate you ran into oblivion for a proper research, you found something new about the oba title called king, and you brought further fake pictures to draw your line on the benin-ife connection

Smell the cofee all your brothers are quite now, unlike before their mouths were running as taps

Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, Scholes macof

Edeyoung:


Benin never had a second dynasty it was only obe dynasty, the oba dynasty

You would first provide documented evidence of the word Ọba used to refer to the throne you now call "Oba of Benin" from the beginning of your 400 years history

macof:

subjugation in your mind you mean

I don't see you provide documentation of this. Provide the 400 year old document that says Bini subjugated yorubas

Foolish questions

gregyboy:



Foolish questions

not as foolish as making an assertion even your elders cannot make
An assertion you can can't find evidence for

macof:

You would first provide documented evidence of the word Ọba used to refer to the throne you now call "Oba of Benin" from the beginning of your 400 years history

It is not available, the oba refers to as king in European text but the word obaseki which the European wrote as abbasski, shows that indeed words like oba was present in benin




And if he can't present it what change,


Does it give yoruba the upper hand for the ownership of oba....


Because we know after 1930 yorubas kings began using oba with their titles to address themselves to uplift their dead history


Same way samuel johnson to sell is dead oyo centric books