₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
You are saved...yes.. But you are not born again or worthy of Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what is in fact promised you for what you do instead of trying to muddle it all up supposing you can somehow get away with that.

This is funny, you are already negating the finished work of Christ

sammy329:
I'm interpreting according to context, that is the first rule in bible interpretation.

Yes believers can't lose their salvation. Salvation is not based on man's effort, it's totally God's effort.

There's only 1 question I ask believers of once saved, forever saved.

If a believer decides he no longer wants to believe in Christ any more. He's not interested in heaven anymore and even decides to pursue love of money ( perhaps even sells his soul to the devil).

Do you mean he has no choice whatsoever,, no free will to decide for himself that he does not want to go to heaven any longer??

sammy329:

This is funny, you are already negating the finished work of Christ

The finished work of Jesus Christ is the New Covenant agreement between God and man. That contract was ratified on the cross when Jesus Christ declared it finished with the shedding of His blood on the cross.

When you refuse to believe His commandments are true, It is then you negate His finished work in your life, and seeing as you deny Jesus Christ's claims that it is only by obeying His commandments that you can become worthy of Him, what you do is you reject Him.

Myer:
There's only 1 question I ask believers of once saved, forever saved.

If a believer decides he no longer wants to believe in Christ any more. He's not interested in heaven anymore and even decides to pursue love of money ( perhaps even sells his soul to the devil).

Do you mean he has no choice whatsoever,, no free will to decide for himself that he does not want to go to heaven any longer??

Hebrews 13:5 (KJV) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Yes, he is stilled saved whether he knows or not Christ takes care of that. It's God that promise that he will abide in him forever, and God can't go back on his word he is too faithful to fail or to deny himself.

Kobojunkie:
The finished work of Jesus Christ is the New Covenant agreement between God and man. When you refuse to believe His commandments are true, it is then you negate His finished work in your life, and seeing as you deny Jesus Christ's claims that it is only by obeying His commandments that you can become worthy of Him, what you do is you reject Him.

You don't even understand the new covenant at all.


Read the whole book of Hebrews that will help you in your understanding of the new covenant. You are preaching mixture

sammy329:
You don't even understand the new covenant at all.Read the whole book of Hebrews that will help you in your understanding of the new covenant

So, the words of Jesus Christ Himself, the embodiment of the Covenant, does not explain the covenant?

Look, below are some of the commandments that Jesus gave as far as how to become worthy of Him. You tell me.... did Jesus Christ somehow lie?

1. Be prepared to abandon parents, brother, sister, children, spouse, in-laws, e.t.c.
2. Abandon all that you know/believe, have, and all that you are
3. Bear your own burden (not someone else's cross- not even your family's or children's)

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
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34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.
38. Those who will not accept the cross that is given to them when they follow me are not worthy of me.
39. Those who try to keep the life they have will lose it. But those who give up their life for me will find true life.

4. Become a child again in your thinking and your actions

Matthew 14 vs 23-24
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23. Then he said, “The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don’t do this, you will never enter God’s kingdom.
24. The greatest person in God’s kingdom is the one who makes himself humble like this child.

5. Be prepared to lose life(reputation, career, control, property, etc.)

Matthew 16 vs 24-27
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24. Then Jesus said to his followers, “If any of you want to be my follower, you must stop thinking about yourself and what you want. You must be willing to carry the cross that is given to you for following me.
25. Any of you who try to save the life you have will lose it. But you who give up your life for me will find true life.
26. It is worth nothing for you to have the whole world if you yourself are lost. You could never pay enough to buy back your life.
27. The Son of Man will come again with his Father’s glory and with his angels. And he will reward everyone for what they have done.

6. Desire above all to find and enter the Kingdom of God and also walk the path of righteousness, with God as your guide every step
7. Let go of all control you have over your life and circumstances, allowing God to take care of your every need

Matthew 6 vs 25-34
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25. “So I tell you, don’t worry about the things you need to live—what you will eat, drink, or wear. Life is more important than food, and the body is more important than what you put on it.
26. Look at the birds. They don’t plant, harvest, or save food in barns, but your heavenly Father feeds them. Don’t you know you are worth much more than they are?
27. You cannot add any time to your life by worrying about it.
28. “And why do you worry about clothes? Look at the wildflowers in the field. See how they grow. They don’t work or make clothes for themselves.
29. But I tell you that even Solomon, the great and rich king, was not dressed as beautifully as one of these flowers.
30. If God makes what grows in the field so beautiful, what do you think he will do for you? It’s just grass—one day it’s alive, and the next day someone throws it into a fire. But God cares enough to make it beautiful. Surely he will do much more for you. Your faith is so small!
31. “Don’t worry and say, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’
32. That’s what those people who don’t know God are always thinking about. Don’t worry, because your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.
33. What you should want most is God’s kingdom and doing what he wants you to do. Then he will give you all these other things you need.
34. So don’t worry about tomorrow. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Tomorrow will have its own worries.

Kobojunkiee:
So, the words of Jesus Christ Himself, the embodiment of the Covenant, does not explain the covenant?

Look, below are some of the commandments that Jesus gave as far as how to become worthy of Him. You tell me.... did Jesus Christ somehow lie?

1. Be prepared to abandon parents, brother, sister, children, spouse, in-laws, e.t.c.
2. Abandon all that you know/believe, have, and all that you are
3. Bear your own burden (not someone else's cross- not even your family's or children's)


4. Become a child again in your thinking and your actions

5. Be prepared to lose life(reputation, career, control, property, etc.)



6. Desire above all to find and enter the Kingdom of God and also walk the path of righteousness, with God as your guide every step
7. Let go of all control you have over your life and circumstances, allowing God to take care of your every need

Matthew 10 vs 34-39 was just talking about taking Jesus first and prioritizing him above anything else. Learn to read the scriptures in context.

You are already forming an opinion of yourself

@Kobojunkie, I want to ask a simple question, what is convenant?

Myer:
There's only 1 question I ask believers of once saved, forever saved.

If a believer decides he no longer wants to believe in Christ any more. He's not interested in heaven anymore and even decides to pursue love of money ( perhaps even sells his soul to the devil).

Do you mean he has no choice whatsoever,, no free will to decide for himself that he does not want to go to heaven any longer??

Once a person is saved and gifted with Eternal life, there is no way of unloading that gift or having the gift revoked.

As set by God Himself since Adam, those who die perish in the grave(cease to exist when they close their eyes for the final time on this earth). Adam's soul ceased to exist the moment he died since he never got the chance to eat from the tree of life... as in he has returned to the dust from which God made him. And this fate has been that of those who sinned from the beginning.

However, when Jesus Christ showed up on the horizon, offering Eternal life for free to all those who believe, He did so by revoking the punishment of sin which is death, as set by God from Adam. So, all those who are saved will no longer die but have eternal life instead. And since Jesus Christ made it clear that He has not come to condemn but to save, He did not provide an out for anyone who would want to change His mind, and so there is no provided no way of reinstating the revoked punishment - the condemnation of sin which is death.
Essentially, once a person is saved, there is no going back to being unsaved, whether you chose to no longer believe or not. Kind of like once you have eaten that fruit from the Tree of Life that is Jesus Christ, there is no way to change what has happened. There is only where to spend eternity that remains.
In John 10, Jesus Christ says something interesting about those who will choose to believe in Him- to the effect answering your question about those who will supposedly sell their souls to the devil and what not.

John 10 vs 22-30 (ERV)
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22. It was winter, and the time came for the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem.
23. Jesus was in the Temple area at Solomon’s Porch.
24. The Jewish leaders gathered around him. They said, “How long will you make us wonder about you? If you are the Messiah, then tell us clearly.”
25. Jesus answered, “I told you already, but you did not believe. I do miracles in my Father’s name. These miracles show who I am.
26. But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep.
27. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them, and they follow me.
28. I give my sheep eternal life. They will never die, and no one can take them out of my hand.

29. My Father is the one who gave them to me, and he is greater than all.[c] No one can steal my sheep out of his hand.
30. The Father and I are one.”

According to Jesus Christ, no one(not even the soul in question) can take any who believes in Him from His hands, because it is God that has in fact given them to Him. All souls belong to God and those souls that God has given to Jesus Christ, i.e. everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, belong to Him and only Him.
Those who believe belong to Jesus Christ and so cannot be taken out of His hand, nor stolen from Him. Since even the devils believe in Jesus Christ, they belong to Him, and so whatever they pretend to clam belongs to Him anyway. Another take is that since the one who believes belongs to Jesus Christ, and cannot be stolen, even when they suppose they have sold their souls to the devil, they are instead deceived they remain property of Jesus Christ even in their deluded state.

sammy329:
Matthew 10 vs 34-39 was just talking about taking Jesus first and prioritizing him above anything else. Learn to read the scriptures in context.

You are already forming an opinion of yourself

Are you certain that I am the one trying to form an opinion here? Go back and read through the passage again, paying attention this time to the portion highlighted in red.

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.
38. Those who will not accept the cross that is given to them when they follow me are not worthy of me.
39. Those who try to keep the life they have will lose it. But those who give up their life for me will find true life.

Jesus Christ clearly explains to you that if you do not do as He commands, you are not worthy of Him. Your refusal to obey Him obviously means you do not believe in what He claims when He speaks of how to becoming worthy of Him.

sammy329:
@Kobojunkie, I want to ask a simple question, what is convenant?

A Covenant is a contract between two parties.

The Old Covenant, as recorded by Moses, is a Contract that exists between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Old Covenant contract consists of a total of 613 Commandments, about 20 blessings, 30-something curses, the eligibility requirement is that one be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or live amongst the people of Israel(foreigners were not included as far as promises), a heavy burden(judgement for sins was borne by the people as a whole), and the promise of that contract is that those who obey would live long in the land of Canaan which God had gifted their father Abraham while those who do not will die.

The New Covenant which was brought to us by God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ was not written by Jesus Christ but instead, lived by Jesus Christ as He embodied the contract in His words and His every living. The New Covenant came to us with a yoke that is easy( only about 46 commandments, 7 blessings, 20 or so curses, a burden that is light(each person bears the consequences of his action -- his cross), the promise of eternal life and eventually eternity in Heaven(for those who obey) or Hell(for those who refuse to obey), and all those who believe are eligible to benefit from this Covenant(have the ability to become sons of God).

In both cases, God commands the obedience of His commandments.. you are not to add or remove from His commandments but are commanded to obey.

Kobojunkiee:
Are you certain that I am the one trying to form an opinion here? Go back and read through the passage again, paying attention this time to the portion highlighted in red.

Jesus Christ clearly explains to you that if you do not do as He commands, you are not worthy of Him. Your refusal to obey Him obviously means you do not believe in what He claims when He speaks of how to becoming worthy of Him.

You have very weird theology man.

2 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

You cannot form a doctrine from that portion alone. I wish you are explaining that Matt. 10 in proper context, but you are using it to suit your opinion.

sammy329:
You have very weird theology man.
2 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

You cannot form a doctrine from that portion alone.

What doctrine did I form there. At least be able to show me exactly where the doctrine is from since all I have done is show you exactly where Jesus Christ tells you of what needs to happen if you want to become worthy of Him.

Also include information on what the Law of two or three witnesses has to do with what is contained in Matthew 10 there?
Included below is the Law of two or three witnesses as pertains to the Old Covenant, as written by Moses

Deuteronomy 19 vs 15
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15. “If someone is accused of doing something against the law, one witness is not enough to prove that the person is guilty. There must be two or three witnesses to prove that the person really did wrong.

Next is the same law as pertains to the New Covenant agreement, as commanded by Jesus Christ Himself.

Matthew 18 vs 18-20
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15. “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[f] in heaven.
19. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
20. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Kobojunkiee:
A Covenant is a contract between two parties.

The Old Covenant, as recorded by Moses, is a Contract that exists between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Old Covenant contract consists of a total of 613 Commandments, about 20 blessings, 30-something curses, the eligibility requirement is that one be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or live amongst the people of Israel(foreigners were not included as far as promises), a heavy burden(judgement for sins was borne by the people as a whole), and the promise of that contract is that those who obey would live long in the land of Canaan which God had gifted their father Abraham while those who do not will die.

The New Covenant which was brought to us by God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ was not written by Jesus Christ but instead, lived by Jesus Christ as He embodied the contract in His words and His every living. The New Covenant came to us with a yoke that is easy( only about 46 commandments, 7 blessings, 20 or so curses, a burden that is light(each person bears the consequences of his action -- his cross), the promise of eternal life and eventually eternity in Heaven(for those who obey) or Hell(for those who refuse to obey), and all those who believe are eligible to benefit from this Covenant(have the ability to become sons of God).

In both cases, God commands the obedience of His commandments.. you are not to add or remove from His commandments but are commanded to obey.

It's already late now, I will reply this in the morning.

Kobojunkiee:
What doctrine did I form there. At least be able to show me exactly where the doctrine is from since all I have done is show you exactly where Jesus Christ tells you of what needs to happen if you want to become worthy of Him.

Also include information on what the Law of two or three witnesses has to do with what is contained in Matthew 10 there?
Included below is the Law of two or three witnesses as pertains to the Old Covenant

Next is the same law as pertains to the New Covenant agreement

I'm asking you to use the principles of the law of the two or three witnesses to explain Matt. 10

sammy329:
It's already late now, I will reply this in the morning.

Take your time to read carefully through considering the Gospel truth of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospels.

sammy329:
I'm asking you to use the principles of the law of the two or three witnesses to explain Matt. 10

Use commandments to explain commandments?

Kobojunkiee:
Use commandments to explain commandments?

There is a principle in bible interpretation/hermeneutics called the principle of the law of two or three witnesses.

sammy329:
There is principles in bible interpretation/hermeneutics called the principles of the law of two or three witnesses.

First of all, there is no such thing as a Bible interpretation called the Law of Two or Three witnesses. That idea is nothing but Hogwash.

There are instead, included in each otheth covenants, laws/commandments referred to, separately since the Old Covenant is very much different from the New Covenant, as the law of two or three witnesses.
The law of two or three witnesses, which I already provided a reference for in an earlier comment, is itself a Truth/axiom. You do not validate a Truth/Axiom against a Truth/Axiom from the same set/Covenant.

In 2 Corinthians 13, Paul references one of these laws(Seems to me like the Old covenant version of the law) in his speak, since he speaks of exerting a punishment on them in verse 2 of the same chapter.

sammy329:
There is a principle in bible interpretation/hermeneutics called the principle of the law of two or three witnesses.

What you ask of me here amounts to asking me to explain "Thou shall not kill" using "Thou shall not lie". There is no way to do that, not even when using spiritual bullsheet language.

You can't validate a Truth(axiom) using another Truth(axiom) in the same set. You can compare axioms across sets i.e. the Old Covenant attributes/laws with the New Covenant attributes/laws, but that is pretty much what you can do.
Included below is the Law of two or three witnesses as pertains to the Old Covenant, as written by Moses

Deuteronomy 19 vs 15
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. “If someone is accused of doing something against the law, one witness is not enough to prove that the person is guilty. There must be two or three witnesses to prove that the person really did wrong.

Next is the same law as pertains to the New Covenant agreement, as commanded by Jesus Christ Himself.

Matthew 18 vs 18-20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[f] in heaven.
19. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
20. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Jesus Christ already explained that He is the Truth(Axioms), the Way, and the (Eternal) Life, so His words aren't principles to be interpreted but plain Truths/Axioms to be adhered to by those who are His followers.

Kobojunkiee:
A Covenant is a contract between two parties.

The Old Covenant, as recorded by Moses, is a Contract that exists between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Old Covenant contract consists of a total of 613 Commandments, about 20 blessings, 30-something curses, the eligibility requirement is that one be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or live amongst the people of Israel(foreigners were not included as far as promises), a heavy burden(judgement for sins was borne by the people as a whole), and the promise of that contract is that those who obey would live long in the land of Canaan which God had gifted their father Abraham while those who do not will die.

The New Covenant which was brought to us by God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ was not written by Jesus Christ but instead, lived by Jesus Christ as He embodied the contract in His words and His every living. The New Covenant came to us with a yoke that is easy( only about 46 commandments, 7 blessings, 20 or so curses, a burden that is light(each person bears the consequences of his action -- his cross), the promise of eternal life and eventually eternity in Heaven(for those who obey) or Hell(for those who refuse to obey), and all those who believe are eligible to benefit from this Covenant(have the ability to become sons of God).

In both cases, God commands the obedience of His commandments.. you are not to add or remove from His commandments but are commanded to obey.

You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

The new covenant started after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the requirements of the new covenant does not come with rules, regulations and burdens like the old covenant. The only requirement in the new covenant is FAITH in the Son of the God, not all those obligations you listed.

Those obligations are good but in themselves but they are not requirements to be worthy of Christ.

Kobojunkiee:
Use commandments to explain commandments?

let me say it in simple terms. Use at least two scriptures to corroborate your point in Matt. 10

Kobojunkiee:
Once a person is saved and gifted with Eternal life, there is no way of unloading that gift or having the gift revoked.

As set by God Himself since Adam, those who die perish in the grave(cease to exist when they close their eyes for the final time on this earth). Adam's soul ceased to exist the moment he died since he never got the chance to eat from the tree of life... as in he has returned to the dust from which God made him. And this fate has been that of those who sinned from the beginning.

However, when Jesus Christ showed up on the horizon, offering Eternal life for free to all those who believe, He did so by revoking the punishment of sin which is death, as set by God from Adam. So, all those who are saved will no longer die but have eternal life instead. And since Jesus Christ made it clear that He has not come to condemn but to save, He did not provide an out for anyone who would want to change His mind, and so there is no provided no way of reinstating the revoked punishment - the condemnation of sin which is death.
Essentially, once a person is saved, there is no going back to being unsaved, whether you chose to no longer believe or not. Kind of like once you have eaten that fruit from the Tree of Life that is Jesus Christ, there is no way to change what has happened. There is only where to spend eternity that remains.
In John 10, Jesus Christ says something interesting about those who will choose to believe in Him- to the effect answering your question about those who will supposedly sell their souls to the devil and what not.

According to Jesus Christ, no one(not even the soul in question) can take any who believes in Him from His hands, because it is God that has in fact given them to Him. All souls belong to God and those souls that God has given to Jesus Christ, i.e. everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, belong to Him and only Him.
Those who believe belong to Jesus Christ and so cannot be taken out of His hand, nor stolen from Him. Since even the devils believe in Jesus Christ, they belong to Him, and so whatever they pretend to clam belongs to Him anyway. Another take is that since the one who believes belongs to Jesus Christ, and cannot be stolen, even when they suppose they have sold their souls to the devil, they are instead deceived they remain property of Jesus Christ even in their deluded state.

John 17:12
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Clearly he lost Judas.

[quote author=sammy329 post=97113954]You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

sammy329:
You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

Myer:
I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

Reading in context from verse 15, Jesus used to term ravening wolves to describe the false prophets but never did Jesus used for the description of the believer.
Verse 22-23
These are works of false prophets, they will work miracles, lying wonders, this is not descriptive of a believer, He says clearly "I never knew you", this implies that was no point in time that was any relationship, they were never believers.

sammy329:
Reading in context from verse 15, Jesus used to term ravening wolves to describe the false prophets but never did Jesus used for the description of the believer.
Verse 22-23
These are works of false prophets, they will work miracles, lying wonders, this is not descriptive of a believer, He says clearly "I never knew you", this implies that was no point in time that was any relationship, they were never believers.

2 Tim 2:18-19
Who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

1: Tim 6:9-10
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These verses clearly show that a believer who was once in the faith can stray from the faith due to greed or love for money.
Meaning a believer can stop believing. And clearly a believer is meant to depart from iniquity.

This also corroborates the verse from Christ himself which says, Luke 18:6-10

Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Myer:
2 Tim 2:18-19
Who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

1: Tim 6:9-10
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These verses clearly show that a believer who was once in the faith can stray from the faith due to greed or love for money.
Meaning a believer can stop believing. And clearly a believer is meant to depart from iniquity.

This also corroborates the verse from Christ himself which says, Luke 18:6-10

Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

2Tim. 2:18-19 in context was about the false doctrine of hymaneaus and philetus.

1Tim 6:9-10 doesn't talk about believers loosing their salvation.

Salvation is eternal, there are many verses that speaks about that.
Hebrews 10:14 (KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This scripture doesn't contradict itself, we just need to divide the word of the truth correctly.

sammy329:
2Tim. 2:18-19 in context was about the false doctrine of hymaneaus and philetus.

1Tim 6:9-10 doesn't talk about believers loosing their salvation.

Salvation is eternal, there are many verses that speaks about that.
Hebrews 10:14 (KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This scripture doesn't contradict itself, we just need to divide the word of the truth correctly.

But the same scripture says those that stray from the faith, those that commit sin wilfully can't escape judgment.

That's why I say the scriptures are quite self contradictory which explains the many confusion in the body of Christ.

Myer:
But the same scripture says those that stray from the faith, those that commit sin wilfully can't escape judgment.

That's why I say the scriptures are quite self contradictory which explains the many confusion in the body of Christ.

The scriptures explains itself, they are not contradictory we just need to correctly handle the word of truth. Real bible study is tasking it takes a lot of time, but the problem nowadays is that we are doing Bible searching not Bible study.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim. 2:15

sammy329:
The scriptures explains itself, they are not contradictory we just need to correctly handle the word of truth. Real bible study is tasking it takes a lot of time, but the problem nowadays is that we are doing Bible searching not Bible study.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim. 2:15

Ok. What does the bible say about Faith and Works?

Can your faith alone take you to heaven or is it by your faith and works?

Myer:
Ok. What does the bible say about Faith and Works?

Can your faith alone take you to heaven or is it by your faith and works?

Romans 3:28 (KJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:5-8 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Yea it's by faith alone, but the believer will good exhibit good works because of the indwelling of the spirit within him.