Mailthaddeus:


No! You are wrong here. A murderer standing trial before a just judge knows his fate even before judgement is pronounced.

Based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, a Christian knows his final destination. Mark 16:15 stated anyone who hears the word, and believes and is Baptised shall be saved. Also, anyone who calls upon the name of the lord shall be saved. We are not saved by our own good deeds, but by the grace of God who has imparted His righteousness on us. This is what saves us, this is where our fate lies, in Jesus Christ alone our saviour, not our fate.... So we know where we are going, we know our fate.

Hmmm.... so if you go about robbing and killing and in the end get caught and sentenced to death and about to be ehmmm.... stoned to death .. at 5hat moment you call on the name of the Lord and booom.... you are saved... Heaven bound... express... just like that.

sammy329:
The scriptures are not contradictory, the scriptures explains it. Most times the reason why people think there is contradiction is because they are used to quoting scriptures of context.

A lot of work must be done on bible hermeneutics and systematic theology

Is heaven guaranteed once you believe in Christ? With scriptural references.

[sup][/sup]

Originalsly:


Hmmm.... so if you go about robbing and killing and in the end get caught and sentenced to death and about to be ehmmm.... stoned to death .. at 5hat moment you call on the name of the Lord and boom.... you are saved... Heaven bound... express... just like that.

It's funny, but God's mercy is available as long as you are still alive. The only person we can't deceive is ourself. If u cry out to God with a sincere for mercy in true repentance, you will be forgiven. This is what it means to call upon the name of the lord. And Romans 10:9 explains this further, it says " if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved".

Irrespective of the weight of ur sin, it has already been paid for. The punishment u deserved has been paid for. Jesus Christ has taken it all up upon himself so that u might be free the guilt of that sin .. What sends people to hell is not d sin they commit, but unbelief in Jesus Christ. This unbelief is what breed the sinful nature. So start by acknowledging what God has done for us by giving up his only begotten son for us. Accept him as the lord of your life, and ask him to give u the grace to make Christianity easy. Honestly I don't struggle with sin, not anymore. All I desire is to know God more and more and love him diligently.

quote author=Toks2008 post=97027375]



You still need to understand the process of sanctification.



If you claim to be born again and you continue to sin recklessly then it is either you don't have the holy spirit or you are not allowing the spirit to work in you but it is still a proces.

Sanctification is not a process. There’s a difference between sanctification and spiritual growth.

madegreatbygrace:


Sanctification is not a process. There’s a difference between sanctification and spiritual growth.

You don't have to agree with me but at least if you must counter try to get your facts right so that you won't end up confusing the readers.

Have a blessed day.

quote author=Toks2008 post=97082037]

You don't have to agree with me but at least if you must counter try to get your facts right so that you won't end up confusing the readers.

Have a blessed day.

I think you’re the one confusing the readers here.

One of the rules of hermeneutics is that you must never use an English dictionary to explain a Greek or Hebrew word. It may interest you to know that the Bible was not originally written in English.

I once did a post on sanctification and maybe I’ll have to copy and paste.

Sanctification means to be set apart or separate from others. You can check the concordance and also see how the word sanctification or sanctify is used throughout the Bible to have a better understanding.

As soon as a man receives Christ, he’s immediately set apart or sanctified as God’s possession. He’s set apart and distinct from the world. There’s something in him that makes him different from others - the Holy Spirit.


This man has the spirit of God in him as a result of the new birth.

“elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

In the foregoing, Peter is saying a man is sanctified by the Spirit, and the Spirit only.

Nowhere in the Bible will you ever see a man sanctified by works. I repeat, NEVER!


That said, the believer must grow. He must not remain a babe. Again, Peter describes spiritual growth below.

“But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Why must the believer grow spiritually?

He explains further:

1.So that he’ll not be barren and unfruitful

2. So that he’ll not stumble in his Christian walk

God bless.

Myer:


Is heaven guaranteed once you believe in Christ? With scriptural references.

yes

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very simple and very clear.

madegreatbygrace:


I think you’re the one confusing the readers here.

One of the rules of hermeneutics is that you must never use an English dictionary to explain a Greek or Hebrew word. It may interest you to know that the Bible was not originally written in English.

I once did a post on sanctification and maybe I’ll have to copy and paste.

Sanctification means to be set apart or separate from others. You can check the concordance and also see how the word sanctification or sanctify is used throughout the Bible to have a better understanding.

As soon as a man receives Christ, he’s immediately set apart or sanctified as God’s possession. He’s set apart and distinct from the world. There’s something in him that makes him different from others - the Holy Spirit.


This man has the spirit of God in him as a result of the new birth.

“elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

In the foregoing, Peter is saying a man is sanctified by the Spirit, and the Spirit only.

Nowhere in the Bible will you ever see a man sanctified by works. I repeat, NEVER!


That said, the believer must grow. He must not remain a babe. Again, Peter describes spiritual growth below.

“But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Why must the believer grow spiritually?

He explains further:

1.So that he’ll not be barren and unfruitful

2. So that he’ll not stumble in his Christian walk

God bless.

My brother you see, the theological schools are one of the biggest problems in Christianity today.

Imagine all you wrote just to prove what point really?

Spiritual growth, sanctification.... When the message is so clear to the readers.

Theological schools are responsible for the confusion we have today and the complexity we see.

Bro I don't preach theological permutation or combination neither do I delve into Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew... I preach salvation and as long as the message is clear that is enough.

Sanctification can be seen in many ways and it is the work of the Holy spirit and no where that i wrote it is by works.

May GOD continue to do his works in our lives in Jesus name... Amen.

quote author=Toks2008 post=97090309]

My brother you see, the theological schools are one of the biggest problems in Christianity today.

Imagine all you wrote just to prove what point really?

Spiritual growth, sanctification.... When the message is so clear to the readers.

Theological schools are responsible for the confusion we have today and the complexity we see.

Bro I don't preach theological permutation or combination neither do I delve into Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew... I preach salvation and as long as the message is clear that is enough.

Sanctification can be seen in many ways and it is the work of the Holy spirit and no where that i wrote it is by works.

May GOD continue to do his works in our lives in Jesus name... Amen.

Theological schools are responsible for the confusion and complexity we have today, yet you used two different literatures to define sanctification.



You should ask yourself, are the dictionary and magazine quoted by you endued with more authority than the Bible itself?

I took my own definition for sanctification from the Bible but you took yours from the opinions of mere men.


Even the Lord says a man is sanctified by the word. The word is the gospel, which when a man hears and believes, is immediately given the Spirit and sanctified.

“Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You don’t preach theological permutations yet you can’t do simple exegesis on sanctification, using the Bible.

Hmmmm......

sammy329:
yes

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very simple and very clear.

Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

How is that for your everlasting life?

Originalsly:


Hmmm.... so if you go about robbing and killing and in the end get caught and sentenced to death and about to be ehmmm.... stoned to death .. at 5hat moment you call on the name of the Lord and booom.... you are saved... Heaven bound... express... just like that.

Sadly, that is not the case, not according to Jesus Christ.

The example mostly used by so-called pastors and preachers of this is the thief on the cross..but the thief on the cross did not enter into Heaven, but instead a place called paradise... A different jurisdiction from Heaven and Hell as preached of in the Gospel of the Kingdom of God by Jesus Christ

Myer:

Is heaven guaranteed once you believe in Christ? With scriptural references.

The only guarantee given to those who believe in Jesus Christ is Eternal life.. A life free from the condemnation of sin and death(life that end/ceases once a person does) - not afterlife. This was thoroughly explained in the gospel of John Chapters 3, 5 and 10.

Mailthaddeus:
[sup][/sup]

It's funny, but God's mercy is available as long as you are still alive. The only person we can't deceive is ourself. If u cry out to God with a sincere for mercy in true repentance, you will be forgiven. This is what it means to call upon the name of the lord. And Romans 10:9 explains this further, it says " if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved".

Irrespective of the weight of ur sin, it has already been paid for. The punishment u deserved has been paid for. Jesus Christ has taken it all up upon himself so that u might be free the guilt of that sin .. What sends people to hell is not d sin they commit, but unbelief in Jesus Christ. This unbelief is what breed the sinful nature. So start by acknowledging what God has done for us by giving up his only begotten son for us. Accept him as the lord of your life, and ask him to give u the grace to make Christianity easy. Honestly,, I don't struggle with sin, not anymore. All I desire is to know God more and more and love him diligently.

Salvation does guarantee Eternal life, but that same eternal life can either be spent in Heaven or Hell.

In essence, the one who will end up in Hell when Jesus Christ returns are also saved since they too believe in Jesus Christ and as a result have eternal life....Salvation does not grant entry into Heaven, and this is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself.

sammy329:
yes

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very simple and very clear.

Everlasting Life is not Heaven though. So based on that verse what salvation guarantees is eternal/everlasting life instead. And there are two possible destinations for those who have Eternal life and they are Heaven or Hell.
By that, you are made to understand that those who will end up in Hell for eternity are also saved..i.e. They believe in Jesus Christ .

Myer:


Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

How is that for your everlasting life?

what "truth". The truth about the sacrifice of Jesus for sins that was explained by the writer from verse 5 to 25.

To sin willfully in that verse talks about rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

Anyone that believes in Christ Jesus has been perfected forever, he is forever made worthy.

Kobojunkie:
Everlasting Life is not Heaven though. So based on that verse what salvation guarantees is eternal/everlasting life instead. And there are two possible destinations for those who have Eternal life and they are Heaven or Hell.
By that, you are made to understand that those who will end up in Hell for eternity are also saved..i.e. They believe in Jesus Christ .

There is no way someone with eternal life, the life of God will end up in hell

sammy329:
There is no way someone with eternal life, the life of God will end up in hell

If you think it through, it is simple to understand.

Hell is a place of eternal damnation, meaning that those who will end up in it have to have eternal qualities for to withstand damnation for eternity.
We know that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not have eternal life -only those who believe in Jesus Christ have eternal life.

And according to Jesus Christ, on the last day, He will raise His sheep - those who believe in Him. Only those who believe in Him belong to Him and hence hear His voice. Once resurrected( all of them will be in their graves sleeping at the time) some of them will be ushered into Heaven whereas the rest will be led away into Hell. Matthew 25 vs ,31- 46. Also see Gospel of John chapters 5 and 10.

sammy329:
what "truth". The truth about the sacrifice of Jesus for sins that was explained by the writer from verse 5 to 25.

To sin willfully in that verse talks about rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

Anyone that believes in Christ Jesus has been perfected forever, he is forever made worthy.

Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus Christ Himself tell you that you become worthy of Him simply by believing in Him. If that were true, then even demons are worthy of Him since they also believe in Jesus Christ.

You need to separate the Truth of God from the lies that you have probably been fed from listening to the many false teachers out there.

sammy329:
what "truth". The truth about the sacrifice of Jesus for sins that was explained by the writer from verse 5 to 25.

To sin willfully in that verse talks about rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

Anyone that believes in Christ Jesus has been perfected forever, he is forever made worthy.

Do share, how did you determine that willful sin in this context was referred only to rejecting Christ, when the writer was addressing believers??

Like I always say, the bible is subject to various interpretations which is of course where the confusion is.

Let me guess, you don't believe any believer can lose their salvation right?

Kobojunkie:
Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus Christ Himself tell you that you become worthy of Him simply by believing in Him. If that were true, then even demons are worthy of Him since they also believe in Jesus Christ.

You need to separate the Truth of God from the lies that you have probably been fed from listening to the many false teachers out there.

The sacrifice of Christ was for men not demons, demons believe in him and tremble.
You become worthy of him, by believing the gospel.

Hebrews 7:25 (KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 10:10-14 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17 (KJV) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

So those who are believers in Christ Jesus can no longer be condemned Roms. 8:1

Myer:


Do share, how did you determine that willful sin in this context was referred only to rejecting Christ, when the writer was addressing believers??

Like I always say, the bible is subject to various interpretations which is of course where the confusion is.

Let me guess, you don't believe any believer can lose their salvation right?

I'm interpreting according to context, that is the first rule in bible interpretation.

Yes believers can't lose their salvation. Salvation is not based on man's effort, it's totally God's effort.

Kobojunkie:
The only guarantee given to those who believe in Jesus Christ is Eternal life.. A life free from the condemnation of sin and death(life that end/ceases once a person does) - not afterlife. This was thoroughly explained in the gospel of John Chapters 3, 5 and 10.

Exactly.

Heaven is different from eternal life but some pastors have misled their followers otherwise. Cos people don't read their bible.

Myer:


Do share, how did you determine that willful sin in this context was referred only to rejecting Christ, when the writer was addressing believers??

Like I always say, the bible is subject to various interpretations which is of course where the confusion is.

Let me guess, you don't believe any believer can lose their salvation right?

Read the whole chapter first.

I don't want to go into much explanation tonight

1 John 5:10-13 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

sammy329:
The sacrifice of Christ was for men not demons, demons believe in him and tremble.
You become worthy of him, by believing the gospel.

Hebrews 7:25 (KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 10:10-14 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17 (KJV) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

So those who are believers in Christ Jesus can no longer be condemned Roms. 8:1

First, none of the verses you quote say any of what you continue to assert. In fact Romans 8 tells you that those who believe in Jesus Christ are no longer condemned, to what? To die..and this is the same thing you are told in John 3 vs 16 -21, that those who believe are no longer condemned to die but are instead gifted with eternal life.

According to Jesus Christ Himself, the only way to become worthy of Him/Sanctified/born again is through obedience of His commandments. In the gospel of John 14, 15 and 16, Jesus goes into detail about how He will only live inside of those who obey Him I.e. abide in Him - lives completely submitted to the Will of God Himself.

Kobojunkie:
First, none of the verses you quote say any of what you continue to assert. In fact Romans 8 tells you that those who believe in Jesus Christ are no longer condemned, to what? To die..and this is the same thing you are told in John 3 vs 16 -21, that those who believe are no longer condemned to die but are instead gifted with eternal life.

According to Jesus Christ Himself, the only way to become worthy of Him/Sanctified/born again is through obedience of His commandments. In the gospel of John 14, 15 and 16, Jesus goes into detail about how He will only live inside of those who obey Him I.e. abide in Him - lives completely submitted to the Will of God Himself.

The obedience of his commandments is to believe on him and he that sent him

Myer:

Exactly.

Heaven is different from eternal life but some pastors have misled their followers otherwise. Cos people don't read their bible.

Precisely! So many read the Bible through the filters that is the teachings of false preacher and teachers out there - they have become blind to the truth that is sitting right in front of them.

Kobojunkie:
First, none of the verses you quote say any of what you continue to assert. In fact Romans 8 tells you that those who believe in Jesus Christ are no longer condemned, to what? To die..and this is the same thing you are told in John 3 vs 16 -21, that those who believe are no longer condemned to die but are instead gifted with eternal life.

According to Jesus Christ Himself, the only way to become worthy of Him/Sanctified/born again is through obedience of His commandments. In the gospel of John 14, 15 and 16, Jesus goes into detail about how He will only live inside of those who obey Him I.e. abide in Him - lives completely submitted to the Will of God Himself.

we are already Sanctified, any one who believes in the gospel has been Sanctified, made holy.

sammy329:
The obedience of his commandments is to believe on him and he that sent him

Jesus Christ is the New Covenant agreement between God and man and this covenant consists of about 46 commandments in total, of which belief if just one which comes with the promise of salvation unto eternal life.

To become bornagain/Sanctified/worthy of Jesus Christ, however, that promise is attached to a different set of commandments(about 7 commandments in total), so one would have to first obey all 7 or so of them in order to become worthy/sanctified be guaranteed a place in Heaven. Since Jesus Christ made it known that He is the Truth, the way and the Life, there is no other way to become worthy of Him except to obey Him as He stipulated in those commandments.

sammy329:
we are already Sanctified, any one who believes in the gospel has been Sanctified, made holy.

You are saved...yes.. But you are not born again or worthy of Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what is in fact promised you for what you do instead of trying to muddle it all up supposing you can somehow get away with that.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ is the New Covenant agreement between God and man and this covenant consists of about 46 commandments in total, of which belief if just one which comes with the promise of salvation unto eternal life. To become bornagain/Sanctified/worthy of Jesus Christ, however, that promise is attached to a different set of commandments(about 7 commandments in total), so one would have to first obey all 7 or so of them in order to become worthy/sanctified be guaranteed a place in Heaven.

This is BS

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Christ is our sanctification, our holiness

Kobojunkie:
You are saved...yes.. But you are not born again or worthy of Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what is in fact promised you for what you do instead of trying to muddle it all up supposing you can somehow get away with that.

You need to familiarise yourself with the epistle, I see that you are knowledgeable but you need understand the epistles, for better understanding of the scriptures.