gregyboy:


Achaeological evidence or shut up

Is Eweka also a fictional character?

kiss the truth!

Etrusen:



you mean the Oba of Benin that said Oduduwa was a Benin prince ?

Has the Oba of Benin said Lagos belongs to Benin?

kiss the truth!

Etrusen:



you mean the Oba of Benin that said Oduduwa was a Benin prince ?

Correction there was no Benin at the time of Oduduwa.

Who birthed Oduduwa?

Unclekayfarms:

Correction there was no Benin at the time of Oduduwa.
Who birthed Oduduwa?

I should be asking you that question

TimeManager:
Has the Oba of Benin said Lagos belongs to Benin?
kiss the truth!

talking to you is a waste of time

Etrusen:




I should be asking you that question

Based on claimed he's from Igodomigodo now

gregyboy:



Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago [Lagos], which also belongs to the King of Benin.

Fourty fucking miles
fourty miles from Benin belongs to a foreign king. Yes sir, your ancestors are tHiEvEs!

kiss the truth!

TimeManager:

Fourty fucking miles
fourty miles from Benin belongs to a foreign king. Yes sir, your ancestors are tHiEvEs!

kiss the truth!

But Lagos is 200 Miles from Benin not 40 miles?

TimeManager:

Fourty fucking miles
fourty miles from Benin belongs to a foreign king. Yes sir, your ancestors are tHiEvEs!

kiss the truth!

But Lagos is 200 Miles from Benin not 40 miles?

TAO11:
First of all, you’re so used to dumb Benin people that you always assume that everyone else must be dumb like your kinsmen — no, I am a Yoruba.

Secondly, you always claim to have seen the four walls of a university — I knew a day like this would come when that too would be exposed as a brutal lie.

If you’ve ever seen the four walls of a university or read an academic paper or a book published by an academic, then you should know the following:

Quotes and paraphrases are at minimum substantiated with references that allow for crosschecking. Not with pictures of the external page/material being quoted or paraphrased.

Going by your dumb logic, all published academic works are false — because quotes and paraphrase are substantiated therein with references (that allows for cross-checking), rather than with pictures of external pages.

In sum then, detailed references that allow for cross checking are my onus to substantiating my quotes and paraphrases.

If you must acquire the referenced book/paper itself, then your parents have to do the buying for you not me. It is your parents’ duty to buy you books.

Unless I have ever provided a reference which on cross checking turned out to be spurious do you stand a moral chance of questioning my now subsequent references.

And for that, you would need to prove your claim to all and sundry that so & so reference which I once provided was spurious.

You would prove that by demonstrating that the said book/paper doesn’t exist, or that the said book/paper doesn’t contain the said statement in the referenced page, etc.

You either already know all these (in which case your are a grand fraud); or you never knew any of these (in which case you’re a grand dullard).

The attached image below is a perfect depiction of what I have always put you through on Nairaland.

You seem very confused:

1) you are debating a human being, not a univerity.

2) I am not your professor with unlimited resources and whom is paid to go through your work and verify it.



3) This is a debate, only logics apply. You prove what you claim. It doesn't suffice to just "quote" something and then just claim that you have a reference and post your supposed reference. because then you make it impossible for me with my limited ressources to verify your claimed sources. I shouldn't have to waste hours and money to see what you claim is your proof.

4) I am not sure you actually understaznd that this is not a class room, you are not a researcher certainly not in history and neither am I.
We are discussing a historical topic and we need to prove everything which we claim. It can't be made simpler than this.

5)All this talk about what goes on in the accademic world is a futile discussion and a diversion, rather than proving your claims, you would have us getting into an other irrelevant debate of what goes on in the accademic world. Just provide the documents which you claim to quote, it is easy to do.

6) this fool acts as if he were submitting an exam to me which I had to mark, is your head correct at all ?

TAO11:

Translation:
“Captain Horsely referred to it as Eco, and that is how it was designated by the Ijebus •••”

You tell so many lies in just one comment that it is hard to actually correct all of them. this is just amzing, each sentence you make is a lie.
The book never says that the name Eco was "designated by the jebu", it only says that the jebu refer to it as Eco. there are probably many other people who refer to the land as Eco.

TAO11:

Comment:
(1)(a) The pronoun “it” here (in the context of this book) obviously does not refer to the modern geographical delineation of present-day Lagos State.

(1)(b) Rather, ”it” here refers to one of the many islands of Lagos — specifically that which is known today as Lagos Island.

(2) The name “Eko” for this island was coined by the Ijebus — and not by the Binis.

Actually the "it" is already registered in precolonial maps as you can see below. so no need to speculate. And as you can also see in the precolonial map, the entirety of what we call Lagos today was part of Benin empire.
Also once again the book never says the jebu had given the name eco to the land.
each sentence you make is a lie, who lies as much as this ?

TAO11:


Translation:
“••• by the Ijebus, but it is not their domain, it is the Benins’ — who refer to it by the name Korame •••“

Comment:
(1) This shows that although the name “Eko” was coined by the Ijebus; the Binis have been on that specific location before them.

This statement here says absolutely nothing about your false notion that the Binis are the autochthonous owners of the island (or any part of Lagos).

(2) In fact, this same book already debunks such idea on page 25 where it clearly indicates that, the autochthonous ownership of the island [and beyond] belongs to the Aworis — not the Binis, nor the Ijebus.

(3) In sum then, this statement here (rather than speaking of autochthonous ownership) simply speaks of the relative right of the Ijebus or the Benin’s to the specific land which the Ijebus later came to name and occupy.

(4) The autochthonous ownership of all the land (according to this same book on page 25 and 26) has absolutely nothing to do with the Binis.

Once again, here is the translation in full:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

You've written i don't know how many lines for this very short text and its very short translation, you've mixed everything with your personal biased interpretations, you've filled the place with lies. You deserve a medal, you are the queen of liars. I have never seen anybody who lies this much. How can every sentence you say be a lie, this is unheard of.

Once again, the book never claims that the name eco was coined by the jebu, it only states that the jebu refer to it as Eco, the book clearly says that the land belongs to Benin ! That is why the author presents the name Benin call the land as the name Benin gave to the land, the author was npt there to witness any naming exercise !

The book never says the ownership of the land belongs to awori ! there was most likely nobody who was called awori at that period of time.
Rather the book says:

"lagos is the vulgar name europeans gave the land, but according to Robertson Awani is the local denomination, it is written Onis by Denys Bonaventure, Aunis by Palisot de Beauvois and Ahoni by De Flotte. Some people write Honis"

For the one thousandth time Oba of Lagos himself telling you with his own mouth at 5.45 Minutes "Benin are not the owners of Lagos'




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno


Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the only name the europeans gave to lagos was .... "Lagos", all the other names are african names, the book says so !

As I said earlier, the author was trying spelling our african words in a manner which would allow french speaking people to pronounce our african words like we do.

"...George Robertson, like him, tells us about Jaboo of which he had seen several traders in Lagos. He considers this country as a vassal to Benin between lagos and Rio-Fermoso"

So jebu was a vassal to Benin !
So cross dresser you missed this one !

Page 28

I have got to say this, i have never seen anybody lie like tao. Champion, tao you are the champion of lies. You should be in the guiness book of records, the only human being on earth who manages to lie in each and every sentence he makes. We shall call it tao.

I don't have the time nor the energy to keep correcting the remaining lies of tao. But when I quickly read the entire writeup, i noticed each sentence was a lie.

Anyways, jebou being a vassal to Benin explains why Benin explains a lot.
By the way, the book was meant to be about jebu yet it talks about Benin almost as much as it does about jebu.

As always, you’re the criminal, and I am the detective. Let me begin to expose your juvenile fraud once again.

Etinosa1234:
What is this one saying? Are u drunk?

Stop projecting your generational alcohol abuse on every stranger you meet.

To benefit optimally from these schoolings, you must be willing to read — with your eyes open, and your brain alert, and your mind sober.

Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; •••

(A) First of all, the original word you’ve translated here as “refer to” should actually have been translated as “designated”.

As such, the statement will more correctly reads as follows:

“Captain Horsely rendered it as Eco*, and that is how it was designated by the Ijebus”

And this comes from the French original which actually reads:

“le capitaine Horseley nous l’a appelée Eco*, et c’est ainsi que la désignent les Yébous”.

In other words, the text speaks here of a name-designation (i.e. coinage) rather than a mere name-usage.

According to our French author, the Ijebus (not the Binis) designated the name (i.e. coined) /eko/ [obviously not from thin air as we should soon see].

Let that sink in for a moment.

••• Perfect!

(B) Secondly, I find your pretense and double standard of “Eco” vs. “Eko” to be particularly interesting and laughable.

I wish you had enthusiastically applied this same juvenile standard in insisting the text wasn’t referring to Benin kingdom where our French author had been using the spelling “bÉnin”. Lol.

Or that the text wasn’t referring to the Ijebus where he had been using the spellings “Yébous” and “Yéboûs”. Lol.

That’s a pretty laughably, juvenile, fear-induced, moronic argument (if it qualifies as an argument in the first place). You should grow up and do better than that.

Having said that however, the French author did NOT in the first place even say the following:

“••• and that is how it was spelt by the Ijebus[b]”[/b].

No!

According to our text, the Ijebus simply named (NOT spelt); and Captain Horseley did his spelling based on whatever he had heard the Ijebus pronounce.

This is identical to how our French author has spelt it as Eko; or how he has spelt Benin as bÉnin; or how he has spelt Ijebu as yÉboÛ and also as yÉboU; etc.

Now get out of your fears, your laughable and infantile straw just got snatched. The name /eko/ was (according to this French text) coined by the Ijebus [but not from thin air as we should soon see].

••• but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin,•••

Yes! Between the Ijebus and the Binis, the Binis had the right to the island [on the basis of their earlier arrival] even though the Ijebus (and not the Binis) are responsible for supplying the surviving name, Èkó.

This is simply what this text says in the context of the passage in which it is found — that is, a comparison of the right to land between the Ijebus and the Binis. Nothing more, nothing less.

This specific text says absolutely NOTHING about the aboriginal ownership of the island. No! It simply makes a relative statement (with respect to only the Ijebus and the Binis) regarding tenement right.

Moreover [this is crucial], our French author had already indicated on page 25 that the aboriginal ownership of the island belongs to an entirely different group — neither Ijebu nor Benin. So, get a grip!

••• Benin whom have named it Korame

First of all, the French original simply doesn’t translate (in any way at all) to your wording here.

The clear understanding from the French original is NOT that the Binis named (or designated) the island as “Korame”.

Rather, the French original of this specific section reads as follows:

“Bénin, qui lui applique le nom de Koráme”

And this translates in a faithful word-by-word rendering as follows:

“Benin, which applies the name Korame to it”.

It thus becomes clear that no where does this text say a thing about who in the first place namED (or designated) the island as “Korame”.

This specific text here simply indicate a name-usage by the Binis, and not a name-designation.

So, who had named it “Korame” in the first place?

To answer this question, there appears to be more than a clue in the text that follows immediately.

•••, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, •••

Lol. A far more meaningful and more comprehensible translation of the text reads as:

“••• the name Korame [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the older Portuguese’s accounts •••”

Contrary to your endless yapping and pleading that iT iS jUsT a SiMplE cOmPaRisOn; it isn’t just a “simple comparison“ for the following reasons:

(1) The author clearly highlighted a clear link between these two words via his use of the word, “reconnaître” — that is, “recognize”, “decode”, etc.

(2) The author makes it clear that the Portuguese rendering [“Curamo”] is the older version of these two.

In sum, since these two renderings are indicated to be one and the same thing — while the Portuguese’s rendering is said to be the older — it goes without saying then that the Binis’ rendering [“Korame”] is the descendant.

According to our author then, the Binis’ rendering ”Korame“ derives from the Portuguese’s “Curamo”.

This is about the most obvious deduction I would never have imagined myself having to explain.

••• just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

It has been demonstrated that the “Bénin” of our French text refers to Benin kingdom; and that “Ijebu” is what is intended with our author’s various spellings of “Yébou” and “Yéboû”.

It has also been noted (in this same light) that the surviving local name of Lagos (i.e. Èkó) [which our French author spells as “Eko”, and which Captain Horseley spells as “Eco”] is the designated name for the island, by the Ijebus.

And as our author further shows, this Ijebu coinage didn’t appear from thin air. It is certainly based (at least in part) on the Dutch “Ichoo”.
———————

Furthermore to this French text, I have recently come to the deeper understanding that this surviving local name of Lagos (i.e. Èkó) was based not wholly and exclusively on the Dutch “Ichoo”.

Rather, it must have been a fusion or matching of the Dutch “Ichoo” and the indigenous Yoruba word “Ereko” — a Yoruba word (i.e. Ereko) which has survived till date as the name of an area in Lagos island itself.

This understanding was further deepened by two more facts, namely:

(1) The fact that the Yoruba word “Ereko” refers to a farmland area (oko) which is subordinate to (and is under the authority of) a nearby settlement or city.

(2) The fact that the Lagos account categorically states the following on page 44 of Sir Alan Burns’ “History of Nigeria”:

”Formerly it was known as Eko, which name it had received before any settlements were made on the island.”

On the basis of all of these understandings (from both our French text and from the Lagos account), it becomes apparent that the surviving indigenous name “Èkó” for the island was coined by the Ijebus on the basis of a matching (apparently a PSM, i.e. Phono-semantic matching) of the Yoruba “Ereko” with the Dutch “Ichoo”.

Where is ur eyewitness account that Benin negotiated land with Awori?

I am not a Bini retrograde who insists on eyewitness account (and nothing else) at one time; and yet shies away hypocritically from the same standard (eyewitness account) when the subject becomes Ewuare I, et al.

By the way, several information which we’ve both accepted so far from our 1845 French publication is not on the basis of eyewitness account. Lol.

However, my emphasis and approach to history have always been the historians’ standard — which is to carefully examine all historical evidence types — namely, eyewitness accounts; early multiply attested independent oral accounts; archeological artifacts; etc.

And the earliest available historical evidence on how the Binis originally came in to acquire their portion of the island comes (NOT from Ulsheimer’s report, but) from the historical account which historians call the Lagos account.

And the Lagos account (which is many decades earlier than the latter-day reactive account of the Benin Chief Egharevba) maintains that the Binis came from Benin to settle-in into the island by means of a peaceful negotiation with the native people.

This account was first published by the British colonial authorities in the year 1878. The embedded image below is from page 43 of Sir Alan Burn’s “History of Nigeria (1929)”.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12998192_d7b78f4c2cbf4f5f86c5c1189e24aecb_jpeg_jpeg9ebdefb9a357a7c4cdbda42405a54550

Ulsheimer account clearly says that Benin were in military control of the land when he mentioned abt soldiers and military generals in Lago and not traders

Lol! No!

No where does Ulsheimer’s report say even one thing about the Binis controlling the island militarily or in any other wise.

Your phrase “control of the [is]land” is just not met with under any guise in Ulsheimer’s account.

On the contrary, Ulsheimer’s account made it clear that the fenced settlement of the Binis was on that island alongside other people’s settlements.

His report made this clear where it says that the fenced settlement of the Binis was a frontier settlement.

In other words, it was built on that island exactly on the border between [at least] two other settlements belonging to other groups of people.

In fact, the report makes this point further clearer where it says that people of diverse backgrounds come to this fenced settlement of the Binis by water and by land.

People could only possibly come by land to a specific location on an island if they themselves already reside on that same island, but in a different part of it.

In conclusion, Ulsheimer’s report indicates clearly that the Binis were not the only group of people who owned a settlement on a portion of that island.

So, whatever their specific vocation was (be it combatants, or business persons who are also combatants); their political activities — as this report shows — was confined to the four-walls of their fenced settlement.

Moreover, Ulsheimer’s report further shows that these Binis were combatants who also engaged in business activities. The report shows that many diverse people come to the Binis’ fenced settlement specifically for business purposes.

In the light of the foregoing detailed exposition, it becomes obvious that nothing is said in Ulsheimer’s report about the Binis having any sort of control of the island, nor was anything said in the report about the specific reason why Ulsheimer found them to be battle-ready combatants.

The specific reason for this battle-ready condition wasn’t known from any documented writing until in the Lagos accounts which were collected and published by the colonial authorities in the years 1878, 1914, and 1929.

The Lagos account as may be seen embedded above makes it clear that the Binis after they had already become one of the diverse inhabitants on the island later began to engage in some battle campaigns — attacking some “people on the mainland” in the course of which a key Benin commander was said to have lost his life.

In fact from 1603 to late 17th century, there was no ruler in Lagos because of Benin direct military control over the land through the military

This is an ignorant falsehood.

The earliest available evidence which touches specifically on this topic is the Lagos account.

Nothing earlier touches on the polity of the island prior to foundation of the independent “Eleko” monarchy by the Yoruba man, Ashipa (of course with the backing of the influential king of Benin).

So who was the other independent ruler in Lagos apart from The Oba of Benin?

The monarch who controls ”Eko” prior to when Ashipa asserted an independent monarchy for the island used to be the King of the adjacent island — Iddo island.

The earliest available historical evidence on this specific subject shows that the then Olofin of Iddo (later Oloto of Iddo) was the ruler of (a) the Iddo island, (b) the adjacent island of Eko, and (c) some few settlement on the main land.

Refer to: Sir Alan Burns’ “History of Nigeria”, 1929, pp. 42-44.

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TAO11:



(A) First of all, the original word you’ve translated here as “refer to” should actually have been translated as “designated”.

As such, the statement will more correctly reads as follows:

“Captain Horsely rendered it as Eco*, and that is how it was designated by the Ijebus •••”

And this comes from the French original which actually reads:

“le capitaine Horseley nous l’a appelée Eco*, et c’est ainsi que la désignent les Ijebus”.

In other words, the text speaks here of a name-designation (i.e. coinage) rather than a mere name-usage.

Mr liar, quit pretending, you don't speak a word of french. stop playing expert in french language, you know nothing about french language and i speak it fluently. The translation still stands: "Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it"

i see you are back to your former business of writing extremely long essays full of lies. Obviously nobody is going to go through all that rubbsih except your gullible fans who won't even question anything you say.

I say it clearly, I don't have the energy nor the time to go through your extremely long post. The original text is less than five lines and so is its translation. But you managed to concoct a bunch of lies numbering more than 70 lines.

oni of ife is a priest not a king, here is a colonial era video of the british presenting him:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=989866004541431

while tao prepares his next lies. Perharps 100 pages full of lies for his next post...

Also, i no longer believe Oba Akenzua ever visited oni aderemi adesoji in any occasion other than official government meetings

nocomment3:
[s]"George Robertson tells us about Jaboo of which he had seen several traders in Lagos. He considers this country as a vassal to Benin between lagos and Rio-Fermoso"

So jebu was a vassal to Benin !
So cross dresser you missed this one !

Page 28[/s]

LMAO! Ijebu was tributary to Benin, yet the Ijebus chased the Binis away from the Binis’ earlier occupied area of the island to an isolated extremity of the island. You self think am.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12998263_42262072ac554269a178080eb5ed0bb5_jpeg_jpeg1627f09caf58a207ff308157ad2baefd

Now to educate you, the first primary written report which makes this specific claim (that Ijebu was tributary to Benin) is Olfert Dapper’s “Naukeurige Beschrijvinge”, published 1668.

First, Olfert Dapper never stepped foot out of his country through out his entire life. Second, this specific statement (that Ijebu was tributary to Benin) was collected from Benin itself.

Moreover, subsequent European writers such as John Barbort, et al. have simply used earlier materials freely. Others such as H. L. Gallwey collected similar statements (about the Lokoja area this time around) again directly from Benin. Lol.

To wrap this up with an expert commentary on this specific topic, I would cite the historian of African history, Professor R. C. C. Law. Having combed through the primary materials, Law writes as follows on this specific topic:

“Dapper’s statement here that Ijebu was tributary to Benin is difficult to evaluate. Although it is supported by Benin traditions claiming an early conquest of Ijebu, it should be treated with reserve; since Dapper’s own information was collected in Benin, it may reflect vain glory rather than political reality.*”

~ Robin C. C. Law, “Early European Sources Relating to the Kingdom of Ijebu (1500-1700): A Critical Survey,” History in Africa, 1968, Vol. 13 (1986), p. 253.

Professor Law added an end note (to kill this foregoing remark) along the following lines:

* ”In fact, during the seventeenth century [1600s] Ijebu was probably drawn rather into a separate sphere of influence of the rival Yoruba kingdom of OYo. See Robin Law, The Oyo Empire, c. 1600-c.1836 (Oxford, 1977), 135-37.”

~ Robin C. C. Law, “Early European Sources Relating to the Kingdom of Ijebu (1500-1700): A Critical Survey,” History in Africa, 1968, Vol. 13 (1986), p. 259, note 54.

In sum then, to conclusive establish your statement here as a political-cum-historical reality; you must thus adduce statements, etc. which proves that George Robertson collected (or corroborated) this statement from some Ijebu kingdoms; or at the minimum adduce a statement from Robertson confirming some actual instances of the Ijebus paying tribute or homage to the Benin king.

Also, if you must refer to me again in any of your tirade, please do so — but stop pretending to mention me by simply writing “Tao”, etc. Ensure to mention me rightly as “Tao11”

Cheers!

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nocomment3:

[s]You tell so many lies in just one comment that it is hard to actually correct all of them. this is just amzing, each sentence you make is a lie.
The book never says that the name Eco was "designated by the jebu", it only says that the jebu refer to it as Eco. there are probably many other people who refer to the land as Eco.[/s]

nocomment3:
[s]Mr liar, quit pretending, you don't speak a word of french. stop playing expert in french language, you know nothing about french language and i speak it fluently. The translation still stands: "Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it"

i see you are back to your former business of writing extremely long essays full of lies. Obviously nobody is going to go through all that rubbsih except your gullible fans who won't even question anything you say.

I say it clearly, I don't have the energy nor the time to go through your extremely long post. The original text is less than five lines and so is its translation. But you managed to concoct a bunch of lies numbering more than 70 lines.[/s]

Mrs fool, why are you agitated that your lies are being exposed? You became so insecure that you had to beg Nairalanders not to read my comment.

I feel your pain.

Having said that, I would have thought that even as a bald, sad, dumb, fugly, Bini pathological liar; you should still be able to imagine that I could possibly engage experts to prepare a translating of any document (much less this less-than-two page statements) from any language into any language.

In fact, my translation of those statements pages was from two different bilingual French-English speakers who worked independently. Yes, I did that intentionally for control purposes.

Moving on to your fraudulent translation of the actual statements in question here, the original reads as follows:

“le capitaine Horseley nous l’a appelée Eco, et c’est ainsi que la désignent les Yébous”.

And your fraudulent translation (with which you seek to veil an important and salient point) goes as follows:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it"

In order to perpetuate your fraud, you shied away from giving the faithful contextual translation of the key word “désignent“.

You’re well aware that giving such faithful translation of this particular word will shatter your age-long Benin lies.

In other words, it would become plain to all and sundry that it was the Ijebus (not the Binis) who actually named Lagos as “Èkó”.

To veil this salient information, you rendered your translation of this specific statement as vaguely as you possible can.

No! One does not have to be a Professor of French or English or both before realizing that the faithful translation of this statement [considering the key French word “désignent”] is as follows:

“Captain Horseley rendered it as Eco, and that is how it was designated by the Yébous”.

Folks, notice that the key base-word here, is the word “designate”. Our fraudulent bald Bini friend is trying his level best to veil this salient point.

Yes, the Ijebus are the ones who “designated” [not merely “refer to”] the island as “Èkó”.

I pledge to continue to rubbish you all over Nairaland. See attached.

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nocomment3:
[s]You seem very confused:

1) you are debating a human being, not a univerity.

2) I am not your professor with unlimited resources and whom is paid to go through your work and verify it.

3) This is a debate, only logics apply. You prove what you claim. It doesn't suffice to just "quote" something and then just claim that you have a reference and post your supposed reference. because then you make it impossible for me with my limited ressources to verify your claimed sources. I shouldn't have to waste hours and money to see what you claim is your proof.

4) I am not sure you actually understaznd that this is not a class room, you are not a researcher certainly not in history and neither am I.
We are discussing a historical topic and we need to prove everything which we claim. It can't be made simpler than this.

5)All this talk about what goes on in the accademic world is a futile discussion and a diversion, rather than proving your claims, you would have us getting into an other irrelevant debate of what goes on in the accademic world. Just provide the documents which you claim to quote, it is easy to do.

6) this fool acts as if he were submitting an exam to me which I had to mark, is your head correct at all?[/s]

Stop imagining highly of yourself. I am not debating you. I am simply flogging you. See attached.

Moreover, your parents are responsible for buying you books if you need to cross-check any duly referenced statement.

My job is simply to provide you with the list of books to present to your parents.

Having said that, every single direct reply you’ve quoted me on in relation to the French material (which I did not reply back directly to) have already been covered in my comprehensive reply to Etinosa.

Let me know if you need further flogging.

nocomment3:

Actually the "it" is already registered in precolonial maps as you can see below. so no need to speculate. And as you can also see in the precolonial map, the entirety of what we call Lagos was part of Benin empire.
Also once again the book never says the jebu had given the name eco to the land.
each sentence you make is a lie, who lies as much as this ?

Listen dullard, the font size (small, medium or large) used in typing a name into an early European map doesn’t say jack about the actual real-life size of the territory occupied/controlled by such name. Grow up!

Your reasoning:
Benin kingdom was conquered and ruled over by Guinea.

Your Basis:
The W/African forest region and its coast (from Senegal in the West all the way to Cameroon in the East) are labeled in early European maps (and even till date) as the Guinea Forest and the Gulf of Guinea respectively.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001448_6361acabe6834ecf87312a38bb58eb2b_jpeg_jpeg016e67a25ae83b708914b1fc2946c145

Now do you still stand by your dumb infantile and juvenile reasoning, bald head? You must grow up.

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nocomment3:
[s]oni of ife is a priest not a king, here is a colonial era video of the british presenting him:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=989866004541431[/s]

Liar! No where does the above 1948 video documentary say that the Ooni of Ife is not a king but a priest.

You’re just simply being yourself — a fugly liar!!

Rather, the video states at timestamp 0:14 and I quote here below:

“The Ooni of Ife, spiritual leader of over three million Nigerian tribesmen, was one of the important arrivals”.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=989866004541431

And that is accurate because all Yoruba kings (that is, including the Benin monarch) are considered in, Yoruba religious belief, to be demi-deities — ikeji-õṣà.

Since the Ooni of Ife is the leader of all the monarchs of Yorubaland, this fact thus rightfully makes him the spiritual leader of all Yorubas (and Binis).

Notice that this 1948 meeting which held in Lancaster house and entitled “The African Conference in London” had the Ooni of Ife representing Nigeria in his capacity as leader of the south-west ‘tribes’ — which included the Binis among others.

This leader of the then south-west ‘tribes’ was not deemed to be the Alaafin Oyo, nor was it deemed to be the Omonoba n’Edo, but rather the Ooni Ife.

Note that he wasn’t yet honored as a British knight at the time. Neither was he yet a Governor at the time. He simply represented Nigeria in his capacity as a tribe leader — a tribe which included the Binis.


In addition to the above 1948 documentary, the attached pages below are from a 1903 publication entitled “Native Crowns”.

These attached pages from the paper shows the published summary of a proceeding in which the Ooni of Ife was clearly and rightfully identified as the leading monarch for all of Yorubaland.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915204_3bb91d9be2ea45c5afd3f41e88728f3e_jpeg_jpeg645a15f18177fc5fe10c58c7cc98cb9c
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915205_d21b9942ec6b49db8268dddb52125c5d_jpeg_jpeg5b7a9464bca8be76b7a6cbdd30d76898
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915206_ea1bb7bbeb514c029bf799998b655ca3_jpeg_jpeg94b9f98f3c978fcbb8823afc65a47cbc

~ The Editor, “Native Crowns,” Journal of the Royal African Society, April 1903, Vol. 2, No. 7, Oxford University Press.

I am pleased to always rubbish you all over Nairaland.

Cheers!

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nocomment3:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12996622_oniofifepriest_jpega627ad8152e5189591312779b1eea23a

This image you attached here traces to only one source as diverse and as versatile as the World-Wide-Web is.

The image traces only to a post from an unverified Facebook page of a certain apparent amateur who, nonetheless, self-certified theirs as a history page.

This singular originator of this image (and Facebook post) — from where you have lifted this image — was severely roasted in the comment section of their own Facebook post for misinforming the public.

The Facebook poster (despite the multiple and consistent heavy criticisms in the comment section) dared not name even one source to prove that the individual in the picture was indeed an Ooni.

Neither could they substantiate the authenticity of the uncorroborated and sourceless footnote which they’ve edited into the anonymous picture. It was a clear case of propaganda gone wrong.

There is simply no evidence anywhere in all of history pages to back up their false and mischievous association of the Ooni of Ife with IfA priesthood.

Neither could the poster dare say a word in defense of their apparent mischievous editing — as there is no other source for such (apparent) falsehood.

In fact to be emphatic, there is not a single past Ooni of Ife (from Yorubaland’s photography era) who has ever adorned the circular-style beaded-necklace as shown in your image.

This singular fact alone instantly debunks your image (and its accompanying footnote) as a work of dubious and fraudulent propaganda. Lol!

As the 1903 attachments in my foregoing comment shows, the Ooni of Ife remains and was always the head of all Yoruba kings.

Stop lying to yourself and yet believe it. That’s the definition of madness. May God heal your miserable soul.

nocomment3:
Also, i no longer believe Oba Akenzua ever visited oni aderemi adesoji in any occasion other than official government meetings

Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900


After that, proceed to explain why the [same] Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the late 1970s, by your Omonoba Erediauwa also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001550_99016c282e9b484dae2b8c82f05edf11_jpeg_jpeg4946da521acbba55454f095d95999f8a


After that, proceed to explain why the present Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the year 2016, by your present Omonoba Ewuare II also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001551_ab64cfb09a1c4615898da3319be86a8e_jpeg_jpegdbba1b647a22ec3632f53f5210035f24


Yet, such post-ascension visits have never for once happened the other way round — at least none that anyone knows of.

Cheers!

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Ctorch:
Lagos belongs to Benin - Obanikoro's grandson declares, reveals why its monarchs never wore crowns.

The grandson of the eighth Obanikoro of Lagos has spoken on the issue surrounding the ownership of the state

- Engineer Layiwola Ajayi-Bembe said Lagos truly belongs to the people of Benin

- According to the octogenarian, it was agreed at a meeting in 1903 that Obas in Lagos should not wear crowns.

An octogenarian and grandson of the eighth Obanikoro of Lagos, Engineer Layiwola Ajayi-Bembe, has given a deeper insight into the history of Lagos and its relationship with Benin.

Layiwola also said that Obas in Lagos were historically referred to as 'Elekos' and did not wear crowns.

Speaking with Legit.ng's correspondent, Adeoye Adewunmi, in an exclusive telephone interview, Layiwola, who is the chairman of County and City Bricks, disabused the minds of people who believe that Lagos is 'no man’s land'.

Ajayi-Bembe explained that the decision of the Obas in Lagos not to wear crowns was resolved at a royal meeting held in 1903.

He further explained that Lagos belongs to the Bini (Benin) and not the Yorubas as it is misconstrued, adding that there are still relics of Benin all over Isale Eko.

The chairman, whose mother was the first child of Gbajabiamila (of Olowogbowo fame), identified Idumota, Iduntafa, Idunmagbo and Idunganran as Bini names.

He said:

“Obas (in Lagos) - we don’t call them ‘obas’, we call them ‘eleko’ and they don’t wear crown.

“My grandfather was at a royal meeting in 1903 when there was a dispute of which traditional rulers should wear crowns.

“Ooni of Ife had to come all the way from Ife to Lagos upon the invitation of Governor (John Hawley) Glover.
“And the question they asked him (Ooni) was: ‘Who are the Obas that should wear crowns?’ He mentioned them – Lagos was not part of the list. We don’t wear crowns in Lagos.
“Lagos is Bini, not only because we came from Benin. There are signs and relics of Benin all over Isale Eko.

Enuowa is in Lagos; Idumota is a Bini name; Iduntafa is Bini name; Idunmagbo is Bini name; Iduganran is Bini name; tell me, what further proof do you want (that the Bini own Lagos)?”

https://www.legit.ng/1398022-lagos-belongs-benin-obanikoros-grandson-declares-reveals-monarchs-wore-crowns.html?fbclid=IwAR1BoQNVPVSmdYJQLkM0FEGTM79amLvBRU65gkyRX0pLtStG6RymygjZRHU

MelesZenawi:
Enuowa is in Lagos; Idumota is a Bini name; Iduntafa is Bini name; Idunmagbo is Bini name; Iduganran is Bini name; tell me, what further proof do you want (that the Bini own Lagos)?”


Now this is fact. Bini should learn to present facts like this when arguing.

No doubt Yorubas and binis have so much historically.

History of one is not complete without the mention of the other and vice versa

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MuttleyLaff:
Wrong because Eko means "war camp"

Wrong

Wrong

Fyi, Lagos, which is different from the original Portuguese Lagos, was given that name while under Portuguese influence.

Lagos, originally a fishing village, was founded by the Awori, in the 13th century and was called Eko, it was co-inhabited by the Awori and Bini.

The original Edo or Bini, the Beninese people, of the Empire of Benin/Benin Kingdom, conquered and resettled there, after taking over the place from the Awori.

It actually, is the military nature of the original settlement, that gave Lagos, its original name "Eko", which in the Bini dialect, means "war camp"

Initial contact with Benin Empire and neighboring states were made in the 1400’s, by Portuguese explorers, who described the Lagos lagoon inlet, lake and island with their maps making notes of the existence of the Lagos lagoon lake. However, the name Lagos, was given it, by the Portuguese explorer Rui de Sequeira, when he visited the area in 1472, naming the area around the city, Lago de Curamo, or Lake of Healing, but Lagos actually means "Lakes or Lagoon" in Portuguese.

Former names were, Oko to Eko, from Curamo to Onim, and from Onim to Lagos. Dutch maps depict "Ichoo" obviously Eko, as an important trading town connected by way of Lagoons to Benin and to the Niger.

Obanikoro's grandson is talking half truth, if not quarter truth and yarning sawdust

Awori was not founded by the Binis, but was by Olofin aka Ogunfunminire and his followers after leaving the palace of Oduduwa (i.e. alleged founder of the Yoruba) in Ile-Ife and migrated southward along a river. The story claims that Oduduwa had given Olofin a mud plate and instructed him to place it on the water and follow it until it sank into the river. The plate travelled along the river until at reaching Idumota in central Lagos, it whirled around in the water and sank to the bottom. Now Olofin upon returned to part of his group, he previously left at Iddo, twhen they asked him where the plate was, answered back "Awo Ti Ri" loosely translated, meaning "The plate has sunk or gone down". This is how the name Awori is said to have come into being, long before the Binis invaded, conquered and resettled there.

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