₦airaland Forum

The law only serve as a mirror so while studying Jesus' thoughts, words and actions we compare with what the Law says to establish that Jesus did justice to those laws. But when teaching our children we concentrate on the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't forget that the new covenant says we will no more teach one another how to obey God rather God's righteous standards will be written in our hearts {Jeremiah 31:31-34} so instead of quoting the Mosaic laws for our children we live the law of Christ so that our Children who sees us as role models learn from our actions not words! Deuteronomy 6:7
That's why it's difficult to see JWs children where they ought not to be, the law of Christ is written in their hearts through the conduct of their parents Ma! Hebrews 13:7

enilove:
How did Jesus die with the law ?
How would you teach your children the way of the Lord without references to the laws ?
How would they know it is not good to steal ?
How would they know it is a sin to look at the unclothedness of their parents ?
How will your children know that eating or drinking of blood is wrong without you making reference to the laws ?
You have heard from Jesus that he did not come to abolish the laws and anyone who teaches others to disobey it shall be condemned in heaven

Ken4Christ:
You got it wrong. Jesus only insisted that the Law of Moses should be kept until it is fulfilled. Now, it has been fulfilled and set aside. Grace is fully ushered in.

The word fulfill means to bring to an end in this context.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Hebrews 7:18-19.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The evidences that point to the end of the law is overwhelming especially in the epistles of Paul.

The Scripture can't say in several verses that the Law of Moses has been abolished and then contradict it with just one verse. Matthew 5:17-18 has been highly misunderstood by so many ministers.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Lol.
You so love this Roman abracadabra
You are not under the law but by grace. Then no longer grace at some point, then you arrive at faith as a criteria to be justified without d core components of the law which are the right things to do as a so called Christian (not having any other God, not committing adultery etc)


Sometimes I marvel at Africans and indoctrination

enilove:
That means you are rejecting or saying Hebrew 8: 7-8 is wrong .

I hold no brief for the person of Paul but any teaching that contradicts Jesus Christ's( the Living Word of God Himself) teaching, I immediately discard.

Jesus Christ, my master is in Heaven while Paul, a mere servant, is still in his grave somewhere, along with all of the other disciples and every believer who has so far died since Jesus left, sleeping, waiting for Jesus Christ to return and judge their works. I will not hinge my chances at the Kingdom of Heaven on the word of a man, not even if his name is Saul or Paul, no matter his claim to fame.

The teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ are the very Truth out of God's own mouth - His Word is Spirit. So any doctrine/teaching or commandment that is not rooted in Jesus Christ, is not of God.

enilove:
Did you not read in the old testament that God will make a NEW covenant with Israel and Judah?
The Bible did not say with the GENTILES but with Israel :

Jeremiah 31:31-33 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord :
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Why would God make a new covenant with Israel and keep the old one with the same people?

Remember God made of Abraham, to bless all nations of the earth through the seed of Abraham?

Genesis 18 vs 17-19 (ERV)
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17. The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do,
18. seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19. For I have chosen[f] him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.”

I believe Jesus Christ is the embodiment of that decision God made to bless the nations of the world through Abraham.

As for the Old Covenant, it is also in response to God's promise to Abraham regarding His descendants living forever in the land of Canaan.

Genesis 17 vs 3-8 (ERV)
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3. Then Abram bowed down before God. God said to him,
4. “This is my part of our agreement: I will make you the father of many nations.
5. I will change your name from Abram[b] to Abraham,[c] because I am making you the father of many nations.
6. I will give you many descendants. New nations and kings will come from you.
7. And I will prepare an agreement between me and you. This agreement will also be for all your descendants. It will continue forever. I will be your God and the God of all your descendants.
8. And I will give this land to you and to all your descendants. I will give you the land you are traveling through—the land of Canaan. I will give you this land forever, and I will be your God.”

Even in Deuteronomy 30 where we read of the ratification of the Covenant, we are made to know that indeed, this covenant is about life for the children of Israel in the land of Canaan.

Deuteronomy 30 vs 15-20 (ERV)
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15. “Today I have given you a choice between life and death, success and disaster.
16. I command you today to love the Lord your God. I command you to follow him and to obey his commands, laws, and rules. Then you will live, and your nation will grow larger. And the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take for your own.
17. But if you turn away from your God and refuse to listen, if you are led away to worship and serve other gods,
18. you will be destroyed. I am warning you today, if you turn away from God, you will not live long in that land across the Jordan River that you are ready to enter and take for your own.

19. “Today I am giving you a choice of two ways. And I ask heaven and earth to be witnesses of your choice. You can choose life or death. The first choice will bring a blessing. The other choice will bring a curse. So choose life! Then you and your children will live.
20. You must love the Lord your God and obey him. Never leave him, because he is your life. And he will give you a long life in the land that he, the Lord, promised to give to your ancestors—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

As you can see in the passage above, there is no promise of eternal life or Salvation from the condemnation of sin(Death), nor is there a promise of Heaven/Hell included in that deal. God signed the deal as He promised their Father Abraham.

God wanted to be the King(God) over His people Israel - He still is God over Israel -so He designed the Laws, a System of Governance, over the Children of Israel. Now, this system even included a Tax-cum-welfare system(Tithing and Laws), a sort of Law Enforcement team(Levites), and public workers(also levies). He built the Old Covenant in such a way that it was Law unto a specific people, the Children of Jacob.

So, you cannot in fact compare the reason for the Old Covenant and the reason for the New Covenant in the way many assume.

P.S: The details of the Law of Moses(The Old Covenant) are written in the first 5 books of the Bible, also referred to as the Book of the Law(Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy).

The Law was given by God in full knowledge that it will be broken. so that Grace by Christ will be accepted and appreciated.

madegreatbygrace:
Hi there. It is vital to know that Jesus did not say that He came not to destroy the law.

His words:

““Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

He actually said “The Law or the Prophets”.

When a word is removed from scriptures, it gives the text a different meaning or perspective to what was intended by the author or speaker.

To start with, the Law doesn’t refer to the
moral laws or commandments given by Moses. It refers to the first five books of the Bible traditionally believed to have been written by Moses.

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.

Likewise, the prophets also refer to the books written by the Prophets in the Old Testament.

Why did Jesus make this statement?

The way He made use of the Law and the Prophets was completely different from how the scribes and Pharisees used them.

By his setting up to be a teacher in opposition to the scribes and Pharisees, some might charge him with an intention to destroy their law, and to abolish the customs of the nation. He therefore told them that he did not come for that end, but really to fulfill or accomplish what was in the law and the prophets.

The Law and the Prophets were written because of Christ Jesus. His coming, sufferings and resurrection were foretold in the Law.

“And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This was why He said Moses wrote of Him.

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:46‬ ‭NKJV‬‬



It was also foretold in the Prophets.

““Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭9:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


““But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.””
‭‭Micah‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Then the prophecy of the Prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 53, to mention but a few.

So when Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, He meant He came to fulfill all that was written about Him in the Law and the Prophets. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies.

Notice what He says in the next verse.

“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Everything written about Him in the Law and the Prophets must be fulfilled before the heaven and the earth pass away.

Also observe what He told the disciples.

“And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

In summary, the entire Old Testament was written because of Christ and He became the fulfillment of all that was written.

I quite enjoyed your analysis. Looked catchy but poorly scripted by the Romans.

The question is did he really fulfill requirements of the Messiah?

Jman24:
Lol.
You so love this Roman abracadabra
You are not under the law but by grace. Then no longer grace at some point, then you arrive at faith as a criteria to be justified without d core components of the law which are the right things to do as a so called Christian (not having any other God, not committing adultery etc)


Sometimes I marvel at Africans and indoctrination

The teachings of our Lord Jesus and his Apostles are enough to guide us to a holy living. They are even more stricter than the demands of the law. The Law of Moses said we should not commit adultery but our Lord Jesus said anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery.

In addition, the Law of Moses said we should not kill but Apostle John said anyone who hates his brother is a murderer. Grace didn't come to water down the standard for righteousness. Rather it puts greater demand on us.

One benefit that grace brought is opportunity to repent when you fall into error.

The Law of Moses and grace are two mutually exclusive events in just the way you can't have head and tail at the same time. Hence Paul wrote;

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Apostle also said that those who are still trying to live by the law of Moses are under a curse.

Ken4Christ:
The teachings of our Lord Jesus and his Apostles are enough to guide us to a holy living. They are even more stricter than the demands of the law. The Law of Moses said we should not commit adultery but our Lord Jesus said anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery.

In addition, the Law of Moses said we should not kill but Apostle John said anyone who hates his brother is a murderer. Grace didn't come to water down the standard for righteousness. Rather it puts greater demand on us.

One benefit that grace brought is opportunity to repent when you fall into error.

The Law of Moses and grace are two mutually exclusive events in just the way you can't have head and tail at the same time. Hence Paul wrote;

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Apostle also said that those who are still trying to live by the law of Moses are under a curse.

Stop mixing English language here and there
The Roman creation said you should even hate your people if you must follow him.

enilove:
It is the law not to steal .
Are Christians not bound by this law ?

We live by the instructions in the New Testament which also admonished believers not to steal. There are enough moral instructions in the New Testament to guide our lives.

The Law of Moses was abolished because if you break one law, you have broken all and the consequence is death and curses.

This is why Jesus came to deliver the Jews from the Law and ushered in grace.

Ken4Christ:
The teachings of our Lord Jesus and his Apostles are enough to guide us to a holy living. They are even more stricter than the demands of the law. The Law of Moses said we should not commit adultery but our Lord Jesus said anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery.

In addition, the Law of Moses said we should not kill but Apostle John said anyone who hates his brother is a murderer. Grace didn't come to water down the standard for righteousness. Rather it puts greater demand on us.

One benefit that grace brought is opportunity to repent when you fall into error.

The Law of Moses and grace are two mutually exclusive events in just the way you can't have head and tail at the same time. Hence Paul wrote;

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Apostle also said that those who are still trying to live by the law of Moses are under a curse.

So how is it that trying to obey the 10 commandments would bring curses on you since the right things to do are contained therein ?

Jman24:
So how is it that trying to obey the 10 commandments would bring curses on you since the right things to do are contained therein?

Consider what God Himself said when He gave those commandments to the people of Israel(not to the world).

Deuteronomy 6 vs 1-3(ERV)
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1. “These are the commands, the laws, and the rules that the Lord your God told me to teach you. Obey these laws in the land that you are entering to live in.
2. You and your descendants must respect the Lord your God as long as you live. You must obey all his laws and commands that I give you. If you do this, you will have a long life in that new land.
3. Israelites, listen carefully and obey these laws. Then everything will be fine with you. You will have many children, and you will get the land filled with many good things[a]—just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised.

And pay attention to the promise attached for obeying the Old covenant commandments given by God to His people Israel.

I seriously encourage you to take time out to read the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) in order to gain a deep understanding of why God created the Old Covenant and its real purpose.

enilove:
I have a question for you .

The law says , '' thou shall not kill '' .
Is this abolished ?

You speak as though there are also no laws in the new covenant that speaks against killing, stealing, etc.

Kobojunkie:
Consider what God Himself said when He gave those commandments to the people of Israel(not to the world).
And pay attention to the promise attached for obeying the Old covenant commandments given by God to His people Israel.

If you still practice all the contents of the 10 commandments (presently) and you mistakenly break one, would you still be under curse since atonement was promised to you by Romans?

Ken4Christ:
We live by the instructions in the New Testament which also admonished believers not to steal. There are enough moral instructions in the New Testament to guide our lives.

The Law of Moses was abolished because if you break one law, you have broken all and the consequence is death and curses.

This is why Jesus came to deliver the Jews from the Law and ushered in grace.

The new covenant (an improvement on the old covenant) is still a law in its own right which requires believers to obey the instructions therein.

No one can call Jesus his or her Lord without doing the things He says.

Barren branches in the vine will be cut off and cast into the fire.

In Matthew 25 v 31-40; the goats will be separated from the sheeps, not just on the basis of belief, but also by their works.

Hearing the word is not enough, doing it is what matters.

Faith and works go hand in hand.

And the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20 clearly mentions every man will be judged “according to their works”.

Grace is a period of mercy to repent and turn away from a sinful life to a more productive and holy life by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Jman24:
If you still practice all the contents of the 10 commandments presently and you mistakenly break one would you still be under curse since atonement was promised to you by Romans?

Let's use an example to show what you are doing. In the Old Covenant, you are given the following as one of the commandments popularly known as the "10 commandments", which you say you obey.

Matthew 5 vs 27-30
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14. “You must not commit adultery.

Seems pretty simple and straight-forward, right?

But here's what Jesus Christ commands of His followers instead.

Matthew 5 vs 27-30
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27. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’[e]
28. But I tell you that if a man looks at a woman and wants to sin sexually with her, he has already committed that sin with her in his mind.
29. If your right eye makes you sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell.
30. If your right-hand makes you sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Now, consider this, if you choose to obey the Old covenant version of this commandment given you by Jesus Christ, do you think you have indeed met the requirements as far as Jesus Christ's teachings are concerned?

Let's try another one. Below is one of the "10 commandments" given to Israel by Moses

Exodus 20 vs 12
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12. “You must honor and respect your father and your mother. Do this so that you will have a full life in the land that the Lord your God gives you.

Now, let's see what Jesus Christ teaches instead

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
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34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.
38. Those who will not accept the cross that is given to them when they follow me are not worthy of me.
39. Those who try to keep the life they have will lose it. But those who give up their life for me will find true life.

Again, if you choose to obey the Old Covenant commandment, have you fulfilled in any way Jesus Christ's commandment which He says you must do in other to be worthy of Him?

As for atonement, I am afraid that by attempting to follow Old laws while under New Covenant(store Old wine in New WineSkin), you transgress the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 9 vs 14-17
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14. Then the followers of John came to Jesus and said, “We and the Pharisees fast often, but your followers don’t ever fast. Why?”
15. Jesus answered, “At a wedding the friends of the bridegroom are not sad while he is with them. They cannot fast then. But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them. Then they will fast.
16. “When someone sews a patch over a hole in an old coat, they never use a piece of cloth that has not already been shrunk. If they do, the patch will shrink and pull away from the coat. Then the hole will be worse.
17. Also, people never pour new wine into old wineskins. They would break, the wine would spill out, and the wineskins would be ruined. People always put new wine into new wineskins, which won’t break, and the wine stays good.”

Unless you are referring to the Old covenant form of Atonement, I am not sure how you hope to still have Christ's atonement while following Old Covenant definitions that Jesus Christ did not command of you.

GeneralDae:
You speak as though there are also no laws in the new covenant that speaks against killing, stealing, etc.

There are laws that do that - 3 of them in fact.

1. Love thy neighbor as you love your own self.
2. Do to others as you will have them do to you.
3. Love your enemies(even more than you love yourself).

Jman24:
If you still practice all the contents of the 10 commandments (presently) and you mistakenly break one, would you still be under curse since atonement was promised to you by Romans?

Old covenant is 613 commandments, not 10. If you want to live by the old covenant, then you would also have to consider the civil and ritual laws in place and the atonement. It is a whole package or system of it's own, but Christians are not under compulsion to live by the old covenant. You do not need to live by a so called 10 commandments ( or worse still all 613 laws).
All you need to do is obey the royal law: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Kobojunkie:
There are laws that do that - 3 of them in fact.

1. Love thy neighbor as you love your own self.
2. Do to others as you will have them do to you.
3. Love your enemies(even more than you love yourself).

Love your enemies more than you love yourself? can you give me the scriptural reference please?

GeneralDae:
Old covenant is 613 commandments, not 10. If you want to live by the old covenant, then you would also have to consider the civil and ritual laws in place and the atonement. It is a whole package or system of it's own, but Christians are not under compulsion to live by the old covenant. You do not need to live by a so called 10 commandments ( or worse still all 613 laws).
All you need to do is obey the royal law: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Exactly! God's covenants are an All-or-nothing deal! No cherry-picking allowed!

GeneralDae:
Love your enemies more than you love yourself? can you give me the scriptural reference please?

Matthew 5 vs 38-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
[b]43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sunrise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

I laugh when folks say such things as "You are allowed to defend yourself".

Jman24:
Stop mixing English language here and there
The Roman creation said you should even hate your people if you must follow him.

Hate as used in bible language just means not choosing something or choosing not to love something rather than the other. For example:

Esau I hate, Jacob I love.

Remember that God also blessed Esau later on, he prospered and became even wealthier than his brother.

The passage simply means God chose to walk with Jacob and his descendants rather than Esau.

Kobojunkie:
I laugh when folks say such things as "You are allowed to defend yourself".

But it never says you should Love your enemies more than you love yourself. If you are to love even your neighbour just as yourself, then how can you love your enemy more than yourself?

enilove:
I don't agree with you.

The old covenant is abolished by the death of Jesus on the cross .

The old covenant has to do with killings of animals as sin offerings & peace offerings .

The sledding of animal blood for cleansing of sins was a temporary measure meant to be abolished by the coming of the Messiah .

It is animal blood rituals that are no longer necessary in this period of grace.
The laws like killings , stealing , adultery , idolatry etc are not abolished .

The Pharisees and Sadducees are keepers of the laws and Jesus says our righteousness should exceed those of the Pharisees .
The reason being that we are under the leading of the Holy Spirit who makes our bodies his temples.

Are you in anyway saying that God gave the iseaelites his laws and commandments, then after sometimes he sent his son to come and abolish them? And father and son are 1. Something is not right..

GeneralDae:
But it never says you should Love your enemies more than you love yourself. If you are to love even your neighbour just as yourself, then how can you love your enemy more than yourself?

It is implied if you think carefully about it.

As a person, I love myself enough to ensure that no harm comes to me. I will defend myself wherever and whenever! But as a Jesus follower, I am told that when attacked by an enemy, I should not put up a defense i.e. show love for myself, I am instead commanded to love my enemy more, allowing said enemy to beat on me to his heart's content - at my expense.

Kobojunkie:
It is implied if you think carefully about it.

As a person, I love myself enough to ensure that no harm comes to me. I will defend myself wherever and whenever! But as a Jesus follower, I am told that when attacked by an enemy, I should not put up a defense i.e. show love for myself, I am instead commanded to love my enemy more, allowing said enemy to beat on me to his heart's content - at my expense.

That passage does not literally mean allow your enemy to beat on you. It is figuratively saying take insult and humiliation from your enemy but bless them in return, rather than repay evil for evil. Heck even give them yourself to be humiliated more ( turn the other cheek), as long as you do not repay evil for evil.

The reason you are to do all this is not because you necessarily love them more than yourself per se, but because you are modelling your father in heaven who is insulted day and night by the evil works of wicked men, but he loves all men and gives them his sun equally even though he is pained by their actions.

Our father in heaven obviously does not love his enemies more than himself( if that is even possible), but he loves them anyway because he is the model of perfection.

If you do not love yourself first ( which the best for yourself), how then would you know what it is like to love anyone?

GeneralDae:
That passage does not literally mean allow your enemy to beat on you. It is figuratively saying take insult and humiliation from your enemy but bless them in return, rather than repay evil for evil. Heck even give them yourself to be humiliated more ( turn the other cheek), as long as you do not repay evil for evil.

The reason you are to do all this is not because you necessarily love them more than yourself per se, but because you are modelling your father in heaven who is insulted day and night by the evil works of wicked men, but he loves all men and gives them his sun equally even though he is pained by their actions.

Our father in heaven obviously does not love his enemies more than himself, but he loves them anyway because they are all descendants of Adam ( who came from his breath, his spirit).

Figuratively? Where? Did you even read through the passage?

Matthew 5 vs 38-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

When James was killed in Jerusalem, and the other Christians ran away instead, was that figurative?
So, when Stephen stood there as the mob stoned him to death, did Stephen die figuratively?
When Paul was pummeled by the mob during his journeys, and he did not defend himself, nor did the Christians rush to his defense, was that also figurative?
I believe Jesus Christ indeed meant we should take Him at His word, not assume He was speaking garbage to a largely uneducated bunch of men as were some of His followers back in the beginning.

GeneralDae:
Hate as used in bible language just means not choosing something or choosing not to love something rather than the other. For example:

Esau I hate, Jacob I love.

Remember that God also blessed Esau later on, he prospered and became even wealthier than his brother.

The passage simply means God chose to walk with Jacob and his descendants rather than Esau.

Oh now you are supporting an idea or what you feel the idea of hate is abi?

So going by your logic, the implication is that the Romans recreated stories to soothe them too, else how can hating someone be same as being a murderer contextually and from the verse you pointed out earlier "who ever hates is a murderer"?

Kobojunkie:
Figuratively? Where?


So, when Stephen, stood there while the mob stoned him to death, did Stephen die figuratively?
When Paul was pummeled by the mob during his journeys, and he did not defend himself, nor did the Christians rush to his defense, was that also figurative?
I believe Jesus Christ indeed meant we should take Him at His word, not assume His teaching is gibberish or "figurative".

Paul and Stephen died looking forward to achieve a greater task where the message of christ was to win at the end of the day and spread around the world, they considered themselves sacrifices to:

1) Help save the souls of their enemies ( because they love their enemies)
2) Acheive the crown of glory( Because they love themselves, and would not want to be a cast away after saving others).

Even jesus himself admitted he never always spoke plainly.

GeneralDae:
Paul and Stephen died looking forward to achieve a greater task where the message of christ was to win at the end of the day and spread around the world, they considered themselves sacrifices to:

1) Help save the souls of their enemies ( because they love their enemies)
2) Acheive the crown of glory.

Huh?
Again, read what you are told from verse 39 of the same passage and tell me that you do not seriously believe that what you posted above means more than what Jesus Christ Himself teaches.

Matthew 5 vs 38-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

By refusing to defend himself when his enemies attacked him, did Stephen not in fact obey the commandment/teaching of Jesus Christ as depicted above?

Kobojunkie:
So, Stephen died because he loved his enemies his way, but the other Christians who chose to escape for their lives, many of them moved to do so by the Spirit of God, were not looking forward to helping save the souls of their enemies, and "achieving he crown of glory"?
Again, read what you are told from verse 39 of the same passage and tell me that you do not seriously believe that what you posted above means more than what Jesus Christ Himself teaches.
By refusing to defend himself when his enemies attacked him, did Stephen not in fact obey the commandment/teaching of Jesus Christ as depicted above?

You yourself said the other Christians escaped and chose to do so by the spirit of God. Stephen and Paul in both of your examples were major targets and could not have escaped easily.
Jesus eventually told his disciples to buy two swords in Luke ( not to fight, because two swords would not have been enough) but to teach the importance of self protection without the desire to attack. Peter didn't understand his master, he attacked first and was rebuked. The poor disciple must have been confused, lol.

Kobojunkie:
Huh?
Again, read what you are told from verse 39 of the same passage and tell me that you do not seriously believe that what you posted above means more than what Jesus Christ Himself teaches.
By refusing to defend himself when his enemies attacked him, did Stephen not in fact obey the commandment/teaching of Jesus Christ as depicted above?

Religion is quite funny.
The funniest thing is .. people even leave out what biblical Jesus instructed to practice. How many will leave their properties as instructed when one wants to take it

Jman24:

Religion is quite funny.
The funniest thing is .. people even leave out what biblical Jesus instructed to practice. How many will leave their properties as instructed when one wants to take it

Jesus is not saying you should run into fire but be ready to give yourself up rather than do something evil in the name of reaction. It doesn't mean if you can avoid the situation don't avoid it. It doesn't mean love your enemies more than yourself.
Your giving yourself up does not necessarily imply you love them more than yourself. You are definitely not pleased with that situation.

GeneralDae:
Jesus is not saying you should run into fire but be ready to give yourself up rather than do something evil in the name of reaction. It doesn't mean if you can avoid the situation don't avoid it. It doesn't mean love your enemies more than yourself.
Your giving yourself up does not necessarily imply you love them more than yourself. You are definitely not pleased with that situation.

. When English language is clearly spelt out? Then we can as well assume that all those stories were created since you have an idea of what Jesus intended