Kingdomtruth:

Good evening bro. I thought I should correction a wrong knowledge here about GRACE...GRRACE correctly defined: is a devine empowerment and ability to do the right thing and live the way God wants us to live(righteousness). By this definition, it becomes clear that Grace actually is the very reason why a Christian should not sin as oppose to what your comment implies... Whoever indulges sin on account of GRACE, is wrong and was informed by wrong knowledge. Remain bless my brother and may God help us all.

You are wrong. Jesus Christ, the one who is full of grace that you speak of, is the New Covenant that God promised His people. And Grace refers to the Teachings/commandments of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, for it is through your acceptance(trust) and obedience of His grace(teachings/commandments) that Jesus Christ instructs that you will become Sons of God.

Those of you who refuse to accept and His teachings can never become Sons of God, or Jesus Christ is declared a Liar and God the Father of Lies.

JayJohnson:


Am I the cause of your sister's poverty? Will you get out of here! Anybody that is rich is a politician?

I think that is the reason why some people and their sisters will forever remain poor and live in poverty

Your problem is ignorant and lack of understanding, that is the reason you can't understand simple explanation.... it's only in Nigeria that everyone are rich on social media while in real life they are begger/living from hand to mouth,.... continue living in your illusion...

stancydg:


So, people have stopped going to church in your almighty America abi? Warped logic

First of all, I never said people will stop going to church.

I am saying the number of churchgoers will drop, and people like Oyedepo will feel a reduction in income.

In the United States, the most religious states are black dominated states, and these states are also the poorest.

About 60% of Americans are religious. But how many white Americans go to church?

But you see the black Americans filling up churches every Sunday. Their pastors are wealthy, and own megachurches. Yet black dominated American states are the poorest.

Henrydonland:

Idiot.

bleep you.
you have sold your brain for folly

Kobojunkie:
You are wrong. Jesus Christ, the one who is full of grace that you speak of, is the New Covenant that God promised His people. And Grace refers to the Teachings/commandments of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, for it is through your acceptance(trust) and obedience of His grace(teachings/commandments) that Jesus Christ instructs that you will become Sons of God.

Those of you who refuse to accept and His teachings can never become Sons of God, or Jesus Christ is declared a Liar and God the Father of Lies.

pls kindly refer me to the biblical scripture that you've just quoted about Grace being the teachings and commandment of God. Just want to be sure it was not quoted out of context... Tanx

Myer:


You have to wonder what they're teaching cos even the graduates Covenant is churning out are part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Winners preaches prosperity without preaching much of righteousness.
When you exalt prosperity over virtues of righteousness, you can be sure that your followers will do anything to gain that prosperity even committing sins that unbelievers won't.

The irony with Christianity is that a unbeliever believes he is committing sin when we steals but a Grace and Prosperity preaches have taught their followers that even if they steal, it is not a sin because Christ has paid for all their sins.

At the end of the day, Christians who should be part of the solution have become more of the problem.

Interestingly you can't blame this pastors because there are Bible verses that support this claim, mostly John and Paul's epistles.

If only Christianity had continued the way the missionaries introduced it to Nigeria, clearly, the Nigeria we have today would be the most prosperous nation in the would but unfortunately the reverse is the case.

Both Christians and Muslims are robbing the Nations and dry and the masses are to suffer for it. Although directly or indirectly the elites are also suffering from this insecure and undder-developrd country they've created.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW and learn on how to be righteous come to winners
If you want to know how to be rich in a Godly way come to winners
All round transformation my brother
All this una noise no go reach anything sha
Because remove the church from Nigeria now
You will be left with Nothing

Kingdomtruth:
pls kindly refer me to the biblical scripture that you've just quoted about Grace being the teachings and commandment of God. Just want to be sure it was not quoted out of context... Tanx

In John 1, you find where John tells you that Jesus Chris the Grace and Truth of God

John 1 vs 14-18 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me because he was before me.’”)
16. For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
17. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18. No one has ever seen God; the only God,[f] who is at the Father's side,[g] he has made him known.

The grace we have through Jesus Christ refers to the salvation we receive through the obedience of His one commandment that if we believe in Him, we are saved from the Condemnation of Sin(Death) and gifted instead with eternal life(grace upon grace).

John 3 vs 16-21 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Now, according to the teachings above, Salvation is from the condemnation of sin(Death) and not from sin itself. Also, Salvation does not guarantee eternity in Heaven. If you look closely, there is no promise of Heaven included in the above, only a promise of eternal life and eternal life can be spent in either of Heaven or Hell.

Next is Jesus Christ's teaching on how to overcome sin, by transitioning from being a slave to sin, and becoming a Son of God.

John 8 vs 31-36
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers.
32. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33. They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34. Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.
35. A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever.
36. So if the Son makes you free, you are really free.

Then in John 15, Jesus Christ also declares that it is in those who abide(accept(trust) and obey His teachings) that He and His Father will abide in.

John 15 vs 1-11(ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
2. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.
4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
5. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he, it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
6. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
7. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
9. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
10. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
11. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

Let me know if I missed anything.

desiredhome:

Your problem is ignorant and lack of understanding, that is the reason you can't understand simple explanation.... it's only in Nigeria that everyone are rich on social media while in real life they are begger/living from hand to mouth,.... continue living in your illusion...

Unfortunately, people like you will think everyone is your mate on nairaland, I don't blame people like you hiding behind Tecno phone to write rvbbish though.

Some of us could feed some people for years, just continue yearning rvbbish.

Ti Olubadan ba wo knicker, o mo egbe baba eni to n"se

specialmati:
you are the one that is very poor i didnt complain because am not poor i have abundance.you that is not fake should leave me the fake pastors oooh.see reasoning na pastors cause your backwardness in life

Fake pastors false scam prophets

Antoeni:
You are also part of Nigeria problem building churches no factories

in a thousand years you will never achieve 1% of what he has achieved

Antoeni:
WHEN THE CHURCH BECOMES A BUSINESS

1) Pastors function like CEOs
2) Members are turned into customers
3) Other churches are seen as competitions
4) Evangelism is reduced to marketing
5) Church planting looks more like franchising.

6) Numbers are primary measure of success
7) Prayer and Word study are replaced by formulas
Revival is reduced to a few days fund-raising
program
9) Preaching sounds more like motivational speech. All the people do is shout "I receive, Amen," throughout the concert. I mean the "service".
10) Praise and Worship is turned into a
performance. The best actors are made the worship and praise leaders.
11) The Spirit of God is reduced to "emotionalism". No real power of God other than hypnosis and sensationalism.

12) The saints are entertained instead of equipped
13) Disciples of Christ have become papa's sons, daughters and fans.
14) The Church, a living Body has now become a lifeless body
15) A leader's empire is built instead of the
Kingdom of God advanced
16) The pastor becomes the super man and Jesus Christ reduced to just another religious figure.

You've said it all.
Nothing to add or remove.

BluntTheApostle:


You Christians never cease to surprise me.

We are talking about a missionary school (Covenant University) which ought to be cheap, you are mentioning a school in Lekki which is obviously not a missionary school.

There is something wrong with the black race. We have the richest pastors, and yet the poorest people.

Oyedepo is part of the problem of this country. He does not have the will to make the country a better place. If poverty rate is low, how many people will go to church?


Because he knows that if the country gets better, he will not have so many sheeples to sell hope to.

Imagine that Nigeria has low unemployment and low poverty rate, how many people will want to go to church?

People will still be religious, but how many people will want to go and be listening to one motivational speaker calling himself pastor?

Oga how is the school a missionary school? Did they tell you that school built by churches in Abroad are cheap?

Please check the meaning of missionary and stop throwing words around any how.

CoolAmbience:



No matter how your see it...

These so-called men of God are a huge problem to Nigeria.

So, because a school in Lekki charges N4million, church owned institutions should charge same or above?

What is the essence of setting up a school when more than 99% of your members can't afford to send their children / wards there?

Abi nor be church money dem take build the schools?

All they know how to do is, mount their pulpits and say all sorts of nonsense about persons in leadership.

How didn't you come about the statistics that 99% of the church members can't attend the school?

Please can you tell us where those who attend the school came from?

Lastly if the school is free, will it accommodate all the children of those who attend the church?

Have you heard about Landmark built by the same church that they give free tuition for any agricultural course of your choice?

Waiting for your answer

CoolAmbience:



Lol.

He said US. I don't know where you got Europe from?

Europe that colonize us and whom we use it's language model shouldn't be a yardstick because it doesn't favor your narrative?

GEEBITE:
Day Waterman founded by Tayo Aderinokun cost close to six million naira now. That is a high school .Quality education is very expensive at Tertiary level anywhere in the world.All the faith based colleges in US dont come cheap at all.

This is a private school in the US?

Jaqenhghar:

Does one have to go to winners to verify anything?
The evidence is there nah. The actions of the average winner is evidence enough. The good book says by their fruits....

Really! So we can judge institution by the number of arm robbers caught who attended them?

Myer:


Righteousness simply put is doing what is right.

Prosperity gospel is simply preaching the gospel for gain. 1 Timothy 6 expounds more on this.

When I was there, I was shocked to find out that the noise about him preaching prosperity messages was wrong.

The point is that, the so call righteousness message is misunderstood.

Because of the misunderstanding, people view others messages with bias mind.

BluntTheApostle:


You Christians never cease to surprise me.

We are talking about a missionary school (Covenant University) which ought to be cheap, you are mentioning a school in Lekki which is obviously not a missionary school.

There is something wrong with the black race. We have the richest pastors, and yet the poorest people.

Oyedepo is part of the problem of this country. He does not have the will to make the country a better place. If poverty rate is low, how many people will go to church?


Because he knows that if the country gets better, he will not have so many sheeples to sell hope to.

Imagine that Nigeria has low unemployment and low poverty rate, how many people will want to go to church?

People will still be religious, but how many people will want to go and be listening to one motivational speaker calling himself pastor?

Missionary schools aren't meant to be cheap, they are meant to aid a mission. Cost is largely a function of value addition and inputs.
Stop vibrating emotionally there.

soulpeppersoup:


Really! So we can judge institution by the number of arm robbers caught who attended them?

Yes. If the institution has lots of armed robbers then yes its nothing less than a den of thieves.
Let me give you an example. The average cultist will tell you that their group is promoting unity or empowerong youths. But what they say and what they do are two different things. Do we say becauee they say they are for empowerment so we overlook the murder and mayhem?

soulpeppersoup:


Europe that colonize us and whom we use it's language model shouldn't be a yardstick because it doesn't favor your narrative?

What are you even saying?

Did you have to misrepresent facts to make a point?

Europe didn't colonize us, UK did. Europe isn't a country.

soulpeppersoup:


When I was there, I was shocked to find out that the noise about him preaching prosperity messages was wrong.

The point is that, the so call righteousness message is misunderstood.

Because of the misunderstanding, people view others messages with bias mind.

Juxtapose his preaching with 1 Timothy 6:5-12 especially the bolded.

b]useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. [c]From (D)such withdraw yourself.

6 Now godliness with (E)contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, [d]and it is (F)certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be (G)content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

soulpeppersoup:


How didn't you come about the statistics that 99% of the church members can't attend the school?

Please can you tell us where those who attend the school came from?

Lastly if the school is free, will it accommodate all the children of those who attend the church?

Have you heard about Landmark built by the same church that they give free tuition for any agricultural course of your choice?

Waiting for your answer

Keep living in the blind world of religion.

I do not see the relevance of your questions.

First, the population of out of school children should tell you that, that percentage was even conservative.

Whether these schools contain everyone isn't the question. What is important is the question of increased access to quality education, which these churches have further compounded by their bogus fees.

You are asking of I have had of Landmark University?

How much is the tuition fee that is free, and what is the balance amount undergraduates studying Agric related courses are expected to pay?

My position is simple, if there is a component of society that should drive education at a very subsized rate in Nigeria and across Africa, it is the religious organisations.... Sadly, that isn't the case.

Myer:


As a human being with desires to prosper, I also believe God wants us to all prosper.

But do you know that there are scriptures against seeking the kingdom for gain/prosperity? But there's almost no single scripture that promotes the prosperity gospel?

Jesus actually said it is impossible to be rich and enter the kingdom of heaven. Luje 18:24-27

In fact the only scripture that I know supports prosperity is 3 John 1:2

Other verses from Jesus teachings and his apostles teachings seem to be against earthly prosperity.

If I'm wrong please do prove me wrong.

Jesus saying it will be hard for a rich man was because the rich man in Mark 10 said he does all things but Jesus said one thing is lacking "go sell all u have and give to the poor" the man went out sorrowfully cos he had a great possession -this connotes money gotten by oneself,wealth acquired by self. when God bless you, he does not rush you but see you have the capacity to carry what he gives u per time so that, you will recognize he blessed you and also make the kingdom of God. ROM 8:6 for to be can ally minded is death- death comes when your spirit man is not alive to the things of God and you are in love with gold. But,to be spiritually minded is life and peace- a wealthy man in the kingdom has given to get to where he is. Kingdom prosperity is a principle- God plan is to make us rich and also to make heaven. You have not been to winners,you should try listening to Oyedepo teaching. I have once condemned this man until I began to follow his ministry and it has blessed me..He has no teaching without the foundation of salvation. Gods kingdom must prosper through prosperity and it takes givers in the kingdom to promote the gospel. The more you give,the more you are blessed. So its a law. To the unbeliever,its hard to sell all and start afresh with God to bless him. They know how they got that money so,God want them to start earning his own way cos,in his way is peace and eternity. But the canal man will find it difficult to let go of his gotten gold by self input,greed ,pride etc and focus on Gods prosperity plan 3Jhn 2

Kobojunkie:

In John 1, you find where John tells you that Jesus Chris the Grace and Truth of God

The grace we have through Jesus Christ refers to the salvation we receive through the obedience of His one commandment that if we believe in Him, we are saved from the Condemnation of Sin(Death) and gifted instead with eternal life(grace upon grace).

Now, according to the teachings above, Salvation is from the condemnation of sin(Death) and not from sin itself. Also, Salvation does not guarantee eternity in Heaven. If you look closely, there is no promise of Heaven included in the above, only a promise of eternal life and eternal life can be spent in either of Heaven or Hell.

Next is Jesus Christ's teaching on how to overcome sin, by transitioning from being a slave to sin, and becoming a Son of God.

Then in John 15, Jesus Christ also declares that it is in those who abide(accept(trust) and obey His teachings) that He and His Father will abide in.


Let me know if I missed anything.

Good morning bro.First off, I'd like to address the very first point you've raised here. Also note that: we're all partners in Christ Jesus. And I believe our one desire is to learn from each other and to tell ourselves the truth rather than a mere desire to argue. That being said.

you talked about Jesus Christ according to John 1 being the GRACE and TRUTH Oof God, which is true. I also remember that: The essence of these exchanges, is on GRACE being misconstrued as a license to indulge sin...Which I defer from, by saying that GRACE correctly defined, is the ability and empowerment to do what hitherto we could not do;because we now have power called GRACE to be able to do it though, we couldn't do it before for lack of the said GRACE. I also remember saying that: It's because of this GRACE that we as Christians should not indulge sin as oppose to Mr Myer's narrative( the first guy I quoted) who believes that Christians indulge sin because they believe that GRACE covers them even though they sin; which I strongly refuted and opposed to be untrue.

However, referring to John 1 that you quoted, John was only saying that "Grace and Truth"came through Jesus Christ only by the power of the holy spirit which also embodies GRACE. I.e as the holy spirit comes upon you, it comes with a power called GRACE to help you do those things you could not do before( to help you live righteously the same way you could not live before because of sin). Just as it also comes with truth, to teach you about Christ and to reveal spiritual truth to those that have it. Reason the HOLY SPIRIT is called the spirit of TRUTH and also of GRACE.

Finally, I do not believe that GRACE comes through our obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ as I understand from your comment. But I do believe however, that firstly: The teachings of Jesus Christ help us with Faith that causes us to receive salvation after we professed Him by Faith. Having so professed Him and are saved;then, His Spirit (which is the HOLY SPIRIT) comes with GRACE to help us live in righteousness as God wants us to live. Thanks and God bless you brodaman...Shalom!

Standing5:
Missionary schools aren't meant to be cheap, they are meant to aid a mission. Cost is largely a function of value addition and inputs.
Stop vibrating emotionally there.

They are meant to aid a mission abi?

Then how come Oyedepo makes it appear like they don't even earn through CU?

With the amount (untaxed) that he gets every Sunday and weekday directly and through remittance, he still makes his missionary school expensive, and you are here telling me bullshit.

Nonsense!

Oyedepo has enough to make that school affordable. One Sunday offering at Ota can settle staff salaries.

Remittances from a couple of churches overseas can settle all the paltry salaries he pays his graduate and non-graduate pastors.

But the man is the definition of GREED.

He would rather buy luxury jets that he needs a lot of money to maintain.

The Early Church was not rich, but through the prudent handling of money by the Apostles, no one lacked anything.

Oyedepo needs to remove luxury from his life, and make it his purpose as the man of God he claims to be to serve.

JayJohnson:


Unfortunately, people like you will think everyone is your mate on nairaland, I don't blame people like you hiding behind Tecno phone to write rvbbish though.

Some of us could feed some people for years, just continue yearning rvbbish.

Ti Olubadan ba wo knicker, o mo egbe baba eni to n"se

Yes feed yourself first....... I've learnt that empty drums makes the loudest noise......

soulpeppersoup:


Oga how is the school a missionary school? Did they tell you that school built by churches in Abroad are cheap?

Please check the meaning of missionary and stop throwing words around any how.

Please, what qualifies as a missionary school?

So, na follow follow una wan dey do?

How many of those churches that own schools abroad are as wealthy as Oyedepo's Living Faith Inc.?

How many of these churches enjoy the tax exempt that Oyedepo enjoys?

What is the cost of living in these foreign countries compared to Nigeria?

See, do your research well before you try to argue with me on things that you know very little to nothing about.

Nope, Abeokuta.

soulpeppersoup:


This is a private school in the US?

Dawinlove:


Jesus saying it will be hard for a rich man was because the rich man in Mark 10 said he does all things but Jesus said one thing is lacking "go sell all u have and give to the poor" the man went out sorrowfully cos he had a great possession -this connotes money gotten by oneself,wealth acquired by self. when God bless you, he does not rush you but see you have the capacity to carry what he gives u per time so that, you will recognize he blessed you and also make the kingdom of God. ROM 8:6 for to be can ally minded is death- death comes when your spirit man is not alive to the things of God and you are in love with gold. But,to be spiritually minded is life and peace- a wealthy man in the kingdom has given to get to where he is. Kingdom prosperity is a principle- God plan is to make us rich and also to make heaven. You have not been to winners,you should try listening to Oyedepo teaching. I have once condemned this man until I began to follow his ministry and it has blessed me..He has no teaching without the foundation of salvation. Gods kingdom must prosper through prosperity and it takes givers in the kingdom to promote the gospel. The more you give,the more you are blessed. So its a law. To the unbeliever,its hard to sell all and start afresh with God to bless him. They know how they got that money so,God want them to start earning his own way cos,in his way is peace and eternity. But the canal man will find it difficult to let go of his gotten gold by self input,greed ,pride etc and focus on Gods prosperity plan 3Jhn 2

Mtchewww.

BluntTheApostle:


They are meant to aid a mission abi?

Then how come Oyedepo makes it appear like they don't even earn through CU?

With the amount (untaxed) that he gets every Sunday and weekday directly and through remittance, he still makes his missionary school expensive, and you are here telling me bullshit.

Nonsense!

Oyedepo has enough to make that school affordable. One Sunday offering at Ota can settle staff salaries.

Remittances from a couple of churches overseas can settle all the paltry salaries he pays his graduate and non-graduate pastors.

But the man is the definition of GREED.

He would rather buy luxury jets that he needs a lot of money to maintain.

The Early Church was not rich, but through the prudent handling of money by the Apostles, no one lacked anything.

Oyedepo needs to remove luxury from his life, and make it his purpose as the man of God he claims to be to serve.

You can head to winners headquarters to arrest him if you feel offering must be used to subsidize the schools under him. The people in charge of the schools feel otherwise.

Offerings are for the church operation and outreaches. Maybe you can tell us what the ones FG has been subsidizing for over half a century has achieved. You are the one that's greedy and want to belong to a church for the sake of enjoying subsidy with the offering of others. Oyedepo cannot be said to be greedy because he ends up releasing funds under him for ministry uses that pertains to the church unlike you who want it to fund a school you can send your children to without paying offering.

Standing5:
You can head to winners headquarters to arrest him if you feel offering must be used to subsidize the schools under him. The people in charge of the schools feel otherwise.

Offerings are for the church operation and outreaches. Maybe you can tell us what the ones FG has been subsidizing for over half a century has achieved. You are the one that's greedy and want to belong to a church for the sake of enjoying subsidy with the offering of others. Oyedepo cannot be said to be greedy because he ends up releasing funds under him for ministry uses that pertains to the church unlike you who want it to fund a school you can send your children to without paying offering.

As usual, you will drag the FG into it.

You Christians claim to be the light to the world, and yet the FG is your benchmark. Is Christ not supposed to be the benchmark? Would Christ have run an expensive school?

So, offering is for operation and outreaches?

Is CU not a part of outreaches?

Abi did Oyedepo not mention it in his official page that the school is founded on a Christian mission?

And what is the Christian mission? Is that not the tenet of outreaches and church operations?

desiredhome:

Yes feed yourself first....... I've learnt that empty drums makes the loudest noise......

Send me your account number, please