₦airaland Forum

christemmbassey: bro that portion of the bible doesnt need explanation and actually said they should EAT their tith.

Eat their tithes..Hmmn , what about putting at the gate or where it will be chosen?

Reading a portion and ignoring the rest

Candour: If you could explain Deut 14:22-29 and Num 18 then you'll surely understand why Heb 7 is an explanation for why it's no longer in force today viz ABOLITION OF LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD which needed tithes for it's survival.

I dont know where you got that from.. but re-read your bible again

Goshen360: Chei, see truthislight don finish this our brother potentpraise.

You should know that i can not be finished... gidigidi ni mo wa bi icon... Stronger than iroko tree

Goshen360: ^ Na so our brother dey rake since yesterday o.

God you know the payment of tithes is necessary and you should go pay your tithes.. You might be owning up-to $30k go to your pastor at Mcarthy or what did you call it again and pay up.. i know people like you are bench warmer and would hardly give offering either

truthislight: the guy miss road.

He does not know that the days of stealing in the name of tith are numbered.

A man who used cunning to steal from the people by appealing to their conscience for offering and thought since he is not preaching tithes he is ok... is the biggest greed propagator

Image123: phew well done potentpraise. I'm tempted and impressed. God bless you.

Thank you my brother... they thought i will back down, they went to call all their relatives of tithes is abolished.. But offering is invoked under the same law that abolished tithes but that law failed to established tithes..

Goshen360: ^
You think say I no know wetin you dey do abi

What do you know that i am doing of Image123 is doing.. Goshen go and pay tithes.. stop covering up under offering... I know you are planing to start your own church soon and you will tell them in the public we don't collect tithes.. But we are in need of money, please pay as you can... You know what that appeal to everyman and many will pity your condition and bring their rose royce, bring the key to their house, buy you jet and buy you mountain load of shares in big company.... Who you and your entourage of offering oloju kokoro, especially with[b] truthisthelight [/b] your godson

BARRISTERS: @potentpraise




can you pls provide answers to this; ''Show me the instruction for tith'' expecially in the NT as an intruction to the christians,

when reading the tread, i realised that you have not done justice to the question! see it again; Show me the instruction for tith

look at Goshen360 next of kin coming again to ask me the same question your uncle has asked and i faithfully dealt with.. I guess no one has tackled you guys like i have.. Do cry pls

christemmbassey: by the special grace of God i am a pastor, i never collect or eat tithe, in our church, Living Waters, we dont collect tith, i work and when i have the opportunity i give.

Who is telling you am a pastor that depends on tithes and offering? You may not collect tithes and if you collect offering you have just collected tithes, so stop deceiving yourself.
My argument here is not what i do, but biblical doctrine that i believe in.. Except your church does not collect offering, you do not have locus standi

Pastor Kun: Bros I am all too familiar with deut 14:22-29 and with your quoting it and attempting to use it to justify monetary tithes you have just confirmed to me that you are a fraudulent charlatan. Cause that scripture makes it clear that the money obtained as sales proceeds from tithes goods must be used to purchase what ever the tither desires and he must partake in eating what he buyS with it with his family contrary to what fraudsters like you preach today.

PS: it was my indept study of deut 14:22-29 10 years ago that convinced me that tithes as it is preached today is a monumental fraud on christians and it inspired me to start an anti tithe campaign which by the grace of God has reached millions of souls across the globe today.

You are wasting my time... If you do not understand my point in using that verses, you will never understand anything so go sit down somewhere

Pastor Kun: Can you quote one single bible passage to support the hubris you've just written?

Deuteronomy 14:22-29

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


You can see that there was provision for converting goods into money... which is something most people do today, by converting what they have or give it directly


Here is another one


Act 5:1-3

5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Candour: Potentpraise is comparing tithes and the giving Paul encouraged in his letters to the Corinthian church.
1Cor 16:1 says 'Now concerning the collection for the saints,as i have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye'.This is actually in response to the happenings in Acts 11:27-30 when a prophecy of famine was made and the gentile christians decided to send help to the jewish christians at Jerusalem.You should also read Rom 15:25-27 which also affirms contribution for poor saints at jerusalem.2Cor9:1 says 'For as touching the ministering to the saints,.......' you see,you can't make this look like the burnt offerings of the Mosaic era.

The whole idea of Christian giving is directed to help poor needy christians.we christians are under grace no more law.God has given us liberty including in our acts of charity which is what our so called offerings really is.we should not only give 10%. if the need arises,we can even give our entire incomes not because we fear a curse but because love for our brethren and our God has been shed abroad in our hearts.

your idea of tithes and offerings stems from Mal 3:8-10 but the giving advocated by Paul is simply contributions to alleviate the sufferings of poor christians.

If you really want to preach on tithe,please explain Deut 14:22-29 which is a more detailed tithe reference.

I have the text for tithes and i could buttress on that... but the initial argument is the explanation of Hebrew 7 and the abolition of tithes in the New Testament which Goshen360 believes is in Hebrew 7..

So the primary intent of this argument was not to established tithes but to clarify that it was never abolished

Pastor Kun: Can you quote one single scripture in the bible that refers to tithes as money Cause as far as the bible is concerned, the mandated tithes is from agricultural produce in the land of israel and nothing else. The idea of tithes being money did not even emerge in the church till the late nineteenth century (less than two hundred years ago) so be careful how you twist scripture to suit your delusions.

There is no where i established Money as the only thing for tithes and offering. Tithes is 10% of what you make, receive as a profit, harvested from a farm produce, recovered goods from war and if you are into live stocks the new born goats, cow etc 10% of them.

The reason why we use money now was because since the abolition of trade by bata as a major means of transaction and the advent of the usage of money, money has become the best medium because, you can use it to buy what the church need... It like the 700 cars given to Oyedepo.. what will he use it for, but if the cars are sold, the money could be channel to some other places.

Remember Ananias and Sapphira, they brought money after selling their property.... It does not necessary have to be money like i said, but its the best medium... because a 10% of kids goat will not help orphan boy who is also a choir in the church and need school fees.. except the goats is sold and the money is given to the boy to pay his school fees.

christemmbassey: all these so dat u'll continue to rob ppl? Bro leave ppl monies, go and work, dont be lazy.

You are just running from the shadow of reality if you can not figure out that pee and poop are called excretion and that tithes and offering is the same

Here is another post that i have earlier posted

potentpraise: Some times i think you seat on the window of the fence and you don't know what going on. Apparently you do not know how churches in advance country operates and you should respect white man when it comes to funs sourcing. There are several organization, big money power houses in many of these churches you see abroad. The building may be small, but don't be deceive a member whose generation grow up in that church has willed their entire generational fund on those church. Its like going to latter day saint church in Utah and start complimenting them that they don't collect tithes. Today, many church have device different method to collect tithes from people.
This is how its done, if you don't know.

1. Tithes
2. Offering
3. Building Project fund
4. Missionary fund for South America, Asia and Africa
5. Donation for any project or relief
6 Tax deduction/ match fund. For every $1 you give some will give $1 to make you $1 look like you have give $2

Also you should know that U.S and many other advance countries governments give non governmental organization such as church and big organization money and donation. Also you know why most church do not have to ask for donation, because most of the baby boomer have alot of money at their disposal and they give willingly and at the end of the year they collect tax reduction on all donated money. While in Nigeria, every church carry their own load. Even the government is having its load too much unbearable for them to carry.

christemmbassey: look wha we give in church is NOT OFFERINGS, its only called offerings by religious folks for obvious reasons. What we give is 'gatherings' and we dont 'PAY' BUT 'GIVE', the offering we give is our bodies as living sacrifice and sacrifice of praise, not naira, dolla, pounds etc, stop hanging on a straw , collecting tithe is SIN, a delibrate one for that matter, love not the world or the things in the world, leave ppl monies, go and work, you have hands, legs, brain, you even go school, work, work work. What's wrong with you?

You are just establishing my point. I know tomorrow they will make you pastor in your church and you will keep quiet when they pay you.. Will say its not tithes its offering .. and they were just giving you.. the highlighted part is another method of highest stealing.. including offering for this, offering for that and offering this

potentpraise: You are contradicting yourself and you have done that more than i can count.... If your church say bring offering, and you pay then you have indirectly paid your tithes.
As a matter of fact, many church prefer asking for offering because offering usually more than tithes. Tithes is 10% and offering could be 0-100% of the money earned including your reserved, house and property. So what are you talking about? You better go listen to Obama because he might also be paying offering to your McAthy church or what do you call it?

That was my previous response to Ghosen360

truthislight: Rubbish!

Show where the instructions for christans to tith is written in the NT?

Stop evading the issue on ground with tantrums.

Where did it say you must give offering? I hate to argue with someone who hardly know how to understand a context.... You are advocate of technical stealing and stealing by trick.. Why should you collect offering at all.. if you advocate that people should not pay tithes.. The best you can do is tell them to keep their money and not bring anything that has to do with money to church.. Highest ignorance is a common disease here on NL

christemmbassey: the fact remains, collecting tithes is stealing pure and simple, haba they carry tithe sw e 4 ya head? Be careful o, fly whe no de hia de follow dead bodi enter grave o. God have mercy.

Collecting offering is what... HOLINESS clear and simple.. many of you are delusional

Its like saying man should not pee, but he can poop.. . Poop and pee are they not excretion? I wonder who thought you guys comprehension or is it that the hot sun in naija is affecting many young guys reasoning?

Zikkyy: @truthislight, good work the guy no expect your gra-gra. Am sure he is re-strategizing now

What work has he done.. The good thing was that you know that he has gra-gra and that is a big disease.. Because in proving effective doctrine, you do not use bra-gra but spiritual intelligence which your boy does not have.. so let him go learn before coming here to talk.. I hate people wasting my time... You think i have his time..?

truthislight: "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or out of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).
................

Stop the extortion.

Stop cursing people because of tith.

You are the biggest hypocrites of all time... You pay offering.. given willing.. No ones pays tithes grudgingly and what is different of what you quote for tithe advocacy?
You say people should give, but they should not give tithes.. Either you say its tithes or its offering what the different.. You are a confused young man

truthislight: You are too blind from all you are saying to even understand the NT.

All the law is fulfill in one word = love.

1. The greatest is love of God.

2. Love of neighbour.

If you love God you will not go against what he hates. You will do only what he likes = love of God.


If you love your neighbour you will not go against what he hates, you will not steal his property, You will do only what he likes and do to him what you will want him to do to you = love of neighbour and golden rule.

Who is your neighbour? = all human.

This ^^ law is written in the heart of "christians".

Read your bible (NT) again, this time drop the greed for money aside.

Greed has blinded you.

"Do what is had work with your hands, so that you will have enough for your self and what to give to others"

dont always see money anytime you see the bible.
Peace.

You have failed to established nothing but make mockery of yourself.. How will you advocate for offering and ignore tithes.. what is the different if not that you have been jumbo jumbo..

truthislight: Go read the NT, all that christians need to know and do is there.

Stop twisting.

There is no instruction to christians to tith in the NT.

You cannot preach what christ apostles did not preach.

When argument does not reflect intelligence.. Its a disease

truthislight: there is an instruction to make offering for christians in the NT.

There is no instruction for christians to tith. QED.

Frauds like you will always go beyond what is written.

Ole. Take your exploit elsewhere.

Your type give bad name in excess to christianity.

When you are done ranting let me know

truthislight: In NL, we dont welcome tith thieves.

That you went and opened a new ID by Dec. 2012 To come talk about tith fraud will not help your fraudulent stance.

Why not go get a job so that you can feed?

If every christian was to be like you who then will pay for your fraudulent christian tith?

You see, the bible says that, he that will not work, neither let him eat, hungry criminals like you are never ashamed of begging for money from people, on the road, in the bus and in the churches.

The message of christ is lost on you since all you preach is extortion.

No instruction for christian tithing but you are demanding for it.

Thief! Ole!

I had thought i was talking to matured mind.. but i can see that you are probably just finishing high school.. I can't understand where a clarification or an argument degenerated to you calling ole? It takes Ole to know another thief.. What have i stolen from you?

What is the difference from you registering June 14, 2012 and i Dec 2012? I refused to respond in your own coin..

Pastor Kun: The moment i read the the bolded i realised we are dealin with someone who sees christianity as a business and pastoring as a profession and obviously tithes as a juicy source of income. As a result of that we are reaing the posts of a conceited + arrogant man who is fighting to justify his source of livelihood/filthy lucre. It would only take the grace of God for him to realise the truth about tithes and repent from fleecing off the children of God of a fixed percentage of their income on a consistent basis.

Sometime i think some people like you are too spiritual to understand the work of God is a profession that you don't get to work in the office until you are offered a job by God. If you say i am arrogant, i will say, it takes someone who is arrogant to know the characteristics of an arrogant man. To justify the work of God, is not left with any man, but God. The problem with many of you is that you are the biggest deceit. Many of you are like judas iscariot who was concern about selling the oil brought to clean the feet of Jesus in other to make profit, but not concern about the symbol of her action.

You cry on tithes because you do not want to be guided or mandated to do God's bidden, but love offering because its willingly done and many of you who are also aspiring for the profession are planing to get the largest of peoples wealth. Offering pays more than tithes, but it takes disciplines to pay tithes.. many of you are not discipline.

As for why i called it a profession, When jesus called peter where he was fishing doing his career.. Jesus said, follow me, he would ceased from being fishermen, but fishers of men, what does that mean.. a change in career and profession.. If you are not convince lets go to Exodus 35:19 "19 The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office."

If its not profession, why would Aaron and his sons have priest office.. Please go and learn your bible before coming here to rant

truthislight: This guy is a fraud!

Are those the commandment to pay tith in the NT?

Was that the way the commandment to pay tith was made in the OT?

What rut is all this?

You people should change your crooked ways.

There is no command/instruction to pay tith in the NT, but you must twist the scriptures.

Where is the commandment thats says you must pay offering in NT? You are the blackest kettle calling pot black.. The biggest fraud you are

truthislight: i really do detest fraudulent talkers like this ^ when he does not himself know much.

Boasting in error!

Go and call your boss Goshen and let adult talk when small boy like you watch so you can learn from the expert.
The problem with you and many others on this forum is English is your second language and i agree, but you need to work hard to understand English comprehension.
English is more than read and write... It takes time to learn to understand what it meant, especially if its written. Unlike spoken word where you can denote from expression of tone of pronunciation, written words are different

truthislight: where did Goshen say such?

You seem to lie with ease.
*sigh*

Now i know you are defending your boss.. but before you defend go read i say read from the beginning.. There are different ways a man can concede defeat or argree. First by word and second by action e.g
yes,
just take a bow
shift to another topic

When we start discussing Goshen changed the topic twice and its a sign that he conceded and he was also talking about offering being acceptable... How could you say tithes which is under the old commandment is abolished and offering which is also under the same old law is not abolished.. There is something wrong then. Its either you don't know what you are saying, or you are wasting my time

truthislight: you dont even know what the bible teach and you want to teach another?

It a blind man leads a blind man where will they end? = a pit.

On what basis? I guess your opinion is authority? You can not even argue yourself out.. No reference, no authority but opinion.. That is why Nigeria is backward, because people just do things without first thinking, research, but think it will work.. you are an example of such product

Zikkyy: Lol @potentpraise you are a clown. But I still like you sha. Appears you are here to complain. If you want to pay tithe, go ahead but don't preach it. Preaching of tithe is false gospel.

If i am a clown, you must be basket mouth, it only take a clown to know one.

truthislight: but you were wrong in saying that we should keep the law.

We have a new commandment = love.

Take note that you are under a curse for keeping only part of the law.

I told you before that before you argue read all the text and not just be picking one of my comment at the end of the discussion?

Have you read the following in your bible?

Here is an example.. one of the disciples of Jesus was asking him in Matthew 22:36-40

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The above text made us to understand that there are more than one law/commandment so there are commandments... If you bring any questions without first reading from the beginning you will be wasting your time, because, i can not be rewrting what i have written to addressed similar questions and if you need clarification humbly ask, but that must be after you have read all my comments from the inception of this thread, including questions asked.

truthislight: ^^
error.
the law has been abolished.

We have a new commandment = love, according to christ.

You cannot keep part of the commandment and leave some, else you will be under a curse.

Even what that relet to christians were repeated in the NT.

So interprets to me though shall not serve other gods except the the Lord they God that brought you out from the land of Egypt
with though shall love the love the lord thy God with all they heart and might? If the first was totally abolished, why do we still have to love God, since the law was in the old?

Though shall not fornicate or commit adultery in the NT and OT though shall not convert thy neighbors wife, please tell me why we have it in New?
When you all read your bible and think you know it all, without attending bible study or stay under the tutelage of a biblical scholar you read a verse and you think you are an expert of the bible.. i wonder why people get PhD if undergraduate was good enough?

christemmbassey: tithe is stealing from christians, stop that scamming, you that teach others, dont steal, do you steal? Yes, how? By collecting tithes.. Repent for God is able to fund the gospel, afterall, its not uy work but God's. Peace.

If tithes is stealing what is offering? You all advocate for the abolition of tithes but propagate offering that is known to generate more money than tithes...Do you think all your big pastors buy jet, rose royce and mansions everywhere in the world with tithes? No they did with Get.. Oritsejarfor got his jet through offering.. some people donated and they bought it including your federal government and you think the 700 luxurious cars that was donated to Oyedepo were tithes? No they were offering.. If those churches collect tithes only, i bet you they would not be able to amax those wealth and lavish life style. You should also know that tithes only come when you get payed every two weekes or month if you get salary and if your tithes is to be paid, many of us will only pay once or twice a month after our pay... But go to church, people are dropping money every meetings and i bet you many of them don't get salaries or paycheck like that... Kettle calling pot black