₦airaland Forum

truthislight: Was the commandment to collect tith given to melchizedec or to levitical priest?

How does the law affect melchizedec collection of tenth Abraham?

Will the levite also have collected tith if not that the law commanded it?

If not that the law commanded it why do you quote malachi 3?

Did melchizedec ask for the tent that abraham paid to him?

What you are asking for(tith) is because of the law, otherwise, dont ask for it and dont quote malachi law, do like melchizedec, dont ask just like melchizedec did not ask for his

I wonder how you come from the space and start addressing remains of explanation. Where in all my text did you see me quoting Malachi 3?, Who talk about Melchisedec asking for tithes?

Please before you jump into argument start by reading from the beginning of the thread, don't just jump from the middle of a conclusive paragraph to think you have the whole idea of what has been discussed in the introduction and body of an essay... I wonder where this half baked learned Nigeria is from? You just from no where with no principle of comprehension to start discussing issues that have been fully addressed from the on start of the discussion at the bottom of it

truthislight: i think it is you that have the problem on this issue.

See:

"And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth." (Hebrews 7:.
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^^
1. who were the "men that die" that receive tith in the former arrangement?

2. And in the next/new/"there" dispensation as opposed to the "here", do "men that die" still collect tith?

3. If "men that die" still collect tith, why was the reference "men that die" used as a distinguishing mark for the old and new order?

Please explain, am waiting.
Peace.

Before you start arguing blindly.. God read Hebrew 7 and give me a summary of it and interpretation of each verse... Until you do that.. just walk and pass by

truthislight: Who is this blatant liar in NL?

How can this be the answer to the question if Hebrews7 made reference to commandment?



are you sure you are a "christian"?

Are you not aware that liars will not inherit Gods kingdom?

The levite through the law have the "commandment to collect tith".

(Hebrews 7:5).
"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:" (Hebrews 7:5).
..................

^^^

where was this commandment written?

Was it not in the law that was given to the sons of Israel that the levites had the commandment to collect tith?

What then exactly is he trying to say?

Na wao!

Some kind "christians"!
*smh*

Apparently you just woke up. Its so disappointing that people like you wake up in the middle of sleep and start arguing blindly. I am still taken aback with the way you reason and not precise? How could you be asking a redundant questions... what does my statement has to do with all your questions ?

Goshen360: I give up on you! You're just jumping around without any meaning explanation. Tithe is NOT offering collected in the worship places. I don't know where God says tithe should be paid 'indirectly'. Abegii. Take your 'You're cursed gospel if you don't tithe' elsewhere. I/we aren't interested.

Don't say you give up on me. Say you give up on your belief that you will encourage offering than tithing. I know people like you.. you are in america.. where in New York? hmmn i can tell.. Remember wall street of the 15 years ago? The people working there majority of them are now in church praying for forgiveness, so they could afford to give offering, because they can't pay tithes.. the reason is because many of them don't make money like before anymore but they have stacked-up money and they can give your church part of it.

Look at kettle calling pot black... Tithes and Offering whats the difference.. one pay more and i will go for the one that pays more and label the other one that look mandatory bad or abolished.. because my name is Goshen360 and Christembassey among others

manmustwac: It all depends on the Pastor if the psotr is greedy then his God is greedy if the pastor is not greedy then he will not demand for tithes first fruit 100th fruit offerings etc meaning his god is not greedy.

I agree with you. Those that teach the word of God to the letter and are inspired to do the things of God will hardly ask you on their pulpit to give money. They are usually reserve except on matters that have to do with special or urgent project. Even with that, they will still be very careful on asking and asking. If for any reason they asked, they will not buy rose royce with the money or but airplane, they will be too ashamed to be seen as a wasteful and thieving pastor

Goshen360: Are you for real? Giving and receiving = TITHING Seriously?

Most people that give, give out of their tithes and if you call it offering, its still welcome as long they know its for God works... If you believe in offering then why are you wasting my time.. Offering is the biggest money grabber because there could be 1 million types of offering. So if you pay offering or give to the things or people of God, you have paid

Did you read that verse 17"17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account." That is what your tithe does

christemmbassey: the only person that sufers is the man who twist scriptures to steal from guilibles as for me i preach the freedom of the gospel of Jesus . Christ said we should preach the gospel not tithe, gospel is goodnews=life=freedom, tithe is bondage and death. I know its hard but try and stop stealing from Gods ppl, there is nothing like holy theft o, stealing na stealing.

You know.. we have seen people who are over zealous in vain for Jesus.. e.g Paul before he was converted.. You will be doing the biggest stealing if you preach offering and not tithes because you are amassing the biggest money for your ministry... so you are the person to run from the most.

Goshen360: Brother, I'm not a baby! I know what it means to collect so called 'offering' whether they pass plates or other means. When I say they don't collect tithe, I mean they don't TEACH tithing or ANTI-TITHE for CHRISTIANS. They can collect giving for special project - it will be specified and mentioned to the members. Even all these churches after collecting tithes in Nigeria, still collect all kinds of offerings and seed sowing NONSENSE!

You are contradicting yourself and you have done that more than i can count.... If your church say bring offering, and you pay then you have indirectly paid your tithes.
As a matter of fact, many church prefer asking for offering because offering usually more than tithes. Tithes is 10% and offering could be 0-100% of the money earned including your reserved, house and property. So what are you talking about? You better go listen to Obama because he might also be paying offering to your McAthy church or what do you call it?

Goshen360: @ potentpraise,

Please, enough of all these scripture twisting. Can you show us at least two scriptures (from the mouth of two or three, every truth shall be established) from the New Testament that tells Christians to tithe Show us please!

i gave you Ananias and Sapphira story.. what else do you want?
You want me to give you paul scenario... This is what real christian pastor should go through when it comes to tithes and offering

Philippians 4:15-19

15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

manmustwac: the Nigerian God accepts tithes or offerings from anybody

Not only Nigerian God... tell me other God you know that also accept or don't accept tithes?

Goshen360: That's a lie again. John MacArthur I mentioned and many others don't collect tithe from over 10,000 members. What do you have to say about that? He has written a global Study Bible and the truth is taught in his Study Bible. What do you have to say about that? And don't tell me I'm not sure because I will give you online link.

What i have to say is that, because a church does not have collection box in the open or collection plate passed around during service does not necessitate the fact that they don't collect tithes. It is just that they don't see it a priority in their ministry development. Apostolic faith don't pass plate around and does have their collection box behind the door.. to the extent that if you don't open your eyes for years you may not know they collect.

But people send their envelope full of cash for tithes and offering to the church address and bank account. Many church do that.

Goshen360: ^^^ Many churches in USA here don't collect tithe. One of them is John MacArthur of Grace Community Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._MacArthur) doesn't teach or collect tithe from over 10,000 members. Also, here: http://www.gty.org/ Tithing has no scriptural place in the New Testament.

Some times i think you seat on the window of the fence and you don't know what going on. Apparently you do not know how churches in advance country operates and you should respect white man when it comes to funs sourcing. There are several organization, big money power houses in many of these churches you see abroad. The building may be small, but don't be deceive a member whose generation grow up in that church has willed their entire generational fund on those church. Its like going to latter day saint church in Utah and start complimenting them that they don't collect tithes. Today, many church have device different method to collect tithes from people.
This is how its done, if you don't know.

1. Tithes
2. Offering
3. Building Project fund
4. Missionary fund for South America, Asia and Africa
5. Donation for any project or relief
6 Tax deduction/ match fund. For every $1 you give some will give $1 to make you $1 look like you have give $2

Also you should know that U.S and many other advance countries governments give non governmental organization such as church and big organization money and donation. Also you know why most church do not have to ask for donation, because most of the baby boomer have alot of money at their disposal and they give willingly and at the end of the year they collect tax reduction on all donated money. While in Nigeria, every church carry their own load. Even the government is having its load too much unbearable for them to carry.

christemmbassey: the fact that a lot of ppl have been doing a bad thing for a long time can not make it right, tithe is not for CHRISTIANS, Christ, Paul, Peter, John, Timothy etc never collect tithes, in our days there are many pastors that doesnt collect tithes and they are doing very well, eg bro Gbile of peace hnuse fellowship. Leave pastor Chris out of this, mind ur own building on the foundation which Christ layed because each man's work shall be tasted. Remain blessed.

You see, if you don't collect tithes and you do not teach the people to pay tithes, you will suffer for it. Should tithes be compulsory YES; should it be wasted to by jet BIG NO; Should people give tithes YES; should pastor collect tithes to live like president BIGGER NO; Should tithes be used for the work of GOD BIGGEST YES and not for the (fatbellering) pastors stomach but to preach the gospel to the all nations, heal the broken hearted, set free the captive and preach acceptable year of the lord. That is what the tithes should be used for.

Than brother Gbile you talk about don't collect tithes, is something you are not sure about so don't say it. You may say, he never preach, collect it in the service, but some members pay their tithes and send it to his ministry either through envelop or bank transfer.

christemmbassey: @all tithe collectors you are aiding and abeting crime, because you assist thieves, ritualists, love pedlers, etc etc to clear their conscience by collecting part of their spoils by partaking in their loots you have given them avenues to empty their guilts without repentance, in short you are the reason why they are still unremented, what shall it profit a pastor if he gain all the cash in CBN while others are reserved for hell because of this greed and dead conscience, love not the world or the things of the world. THERE IS GOD O.

I think you should go and tell your pastor Chris that, he would have a better response for you

Goshen360: @ potentpraise,

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Only God can forgive you! Continue twisting God's word. That was an example of 'sacrificial giving'.

Dont worry i understand how you feel... You have never seen anyone who match you this way... I am glad that you are indirectly confessing and admitting that you have been wrong all this while.

I personally think your concern is not actually the tithes, but you are deeply concern about the management of tithes in most churches today.. But that may be for another topic.
But as for tithing it is real and it is still part of it.

christemmbassey: John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we recieve of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23. AND THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST and LOVE one another, as he gave us commandment.(KJV). Bro i no see tithe here o.

Its a a grave mistake to think that the entire bible chapter should have tithes in it. There is more than one commandment and there are lots of commandments. Just like there are types or lots of laws. The commandment you read is one of the commandments given to Moses to the children of Israel. Its so disheartening to see someone who just manage to come across a verse in the bible and use it carelessly without humbling trying to read the entire chapter or even the book if not the entire bible.

To establish my points that there are many commandments (which is plural) and you are just talking about one specific one (which is singular)that does not include others.

Here is an example.. one of the disciples of Jesus was asking him in Matthew 22:36-40

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Goshen360: So the text in Hebrews doesn't specifically mention tithe? Why won't I look for specific word 'tithe' and yet you're quoting a text in Acts that doesn't talk about tithe at all. By the way, since you're the PH.D holder here, how does the scriptures quoted referred to tithe or tithing?

Jesus was still talking about tithing and Jesus was part of NT and if you are not convince, lets look at Ananias and Sapphira Act 5:1-5

5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.



I know you will will say there is no word of tithes there.. but if there is no tithes there why did people bring there stuff or sell their property to give to the disciples ?

Zikkyy: Yes, for those that chose to live in bondage.

For those that want to live in abundance and wouldn't want to live in penury. The case of how tithes is managed is another thing, but you must pay your tithes

Goshen360: And where does the text 'suggest' or says THEY TITHED

If you are looking for a specific word then you will sleep on this topic till next 100 years
But to buttress my point that it was not cancelled lets look at what Jesus Said...Mark 12:41-44

41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Goshen360: @ potentpraise

You're not saying what is plainly said. You need to read that verse 16 from different translations. It was talking about the requirements for being a Levitical Priesthood. Verse 5 clearly points to 'commandment to RECEIVE tithes' NOT requirements to qualify as a levitical priesthood. When verse 18 cancells 'the commandment' it MUST be inclusive and\or not limited 'commandment to take tithe' because verse 5 was very specific and already told us the commandment was 'to take tithe'. But you're here saying the 'commandment' was to establish levitical priesthood. That's twisting God's word!

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

I told you earlier that Paul had to use comparison with what Aaron and his sons who are priest did and what happened even before Aaron was chosen as a priest when Abraham gave his tithes to Melchisedec.

You just need to go back to read my write up again, because i think you are overwhelmed with my response and also distracted with the Tithes and Offering thread. If you teach a student and he did not understand, he needs to repeat the class or take the class again. Since i have taught you and you dont understand because you never study your book, then you should be disciplined to re-read your book by going to the begining of this thread and read all my response one after the other. BE A GOOD STUDENT

Goshen360: You know I haven't asked you what your score was in comprehension as it relates to English language

By now you should have denote that i am either a Phd holder or a professor of theology experience enough to have you in my theology classes

Goshen360: No mind our brother. When scriptures says the entire law had been abolished. He said, some are abolished while some remained. We have problem in the body of Christ o

You see there are many thing you need clarification on. Also i saw that you don't have a pastor or spiritual mentor, i think you need to have one.
The bible is to complex for you and don't expect God to teach you everything. He wants you to learn from others, then you compare your bible one after the other.

First i need to teach you many things, but i can not teach a student who have refused to learn even before the teacher opens his mouth.

Goshen360: I know it's partial law keepers that often teach tithing. Seriously, I know it. When God cancells the law, He cancells everything! The condition attached to the law was keep all or none. When you're trying to keep some, and break other, then you're guilty of all. That's the condition for keeping the law.

All the things you mentioned that still exist today such as not killing, coveting neigbour's wife, stealing etc are ALL given to us based on the new testament because the law of God was no longer written on stones but in our heart. When Christians don't do all of those things, it wasn't because the law said so but because we have it in the NT. People also kill even when they have those laws.

Good, now i see you are learning... You must be a good student

Goshen360: There's absolutely no where the NT teaches that Christian should tithe. It is according to the law and none of the Apostles ever taught the early Christians to tithe. Besides, Christians don't keep sabbath like the Jews.

Where did you get that from.. Haven't you learned from what happened in Act 2:45-46

"45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"

Zikkyy: So you are now the one deciding what has been abolished and what stays? Na wa o.

You are back again, you brother Goshen has agreed with me that tithes still reign supreme in our christian lives.

delkuf: God bless u, sir. This has been a confusing issue in my life for some month.

Amen and Thank you very much for being blessed through this forum. May God continue to bless you and teach you his word the more.

Goshen360: Okay, let's agree to disagree. Let's say it's a play on words or usage interchangeably. Now, let's go to these questions,

Are we under the law for us to tithe according to the law? Let's take it one after the other.

We are not under the law and also the abolishment of the Law does not necessarily mean all have been cancelled, but some of the specific things like sacrifice of burnt, peace, trespass and sin offerings. Also the Aaronic priesthood has been abolish, but most of the other things are intact. For instant, paying of thither, you should not kill, you should not convert your neighbors wife, you should not steal from your neighbor, you should keep the Sabbath day holy, you should not lie or bear false witness all these are part of Moses commandments that the New Testament still uphold.

You should not worship other gods but the Almighty God its still valid today... because there is an update to a particular application does that mean the application is not valid after the update?

Goshen360: Does that mean you're also telling us what your pastor told you? I don't need no pastor to teach me God's word. I study by the Help of Holy Spirit. I'm showing you a different thing you're saying from what scriptures said. We're NOT under the law. Why do you people want to keep us under the law....so you can keep telling Christians to tithe?

I don't have pastor that i receive teaching under.. But i have God that teach me all things.. I mentioned pastor because, he could teach you something and if you have one, you must have trust his judgement and compare what i am telling you to what he will tell you.. so if its the same that means you should listen and stop arguing

Goshen360: Yes, I did. Scored c4 in my English. Do I look like someone who don't understand English? Does that answer your questions?

Yes i am impressed, but i think you have small ego if you have C4 and still argue blindly.. I noticed you want to serve God, God loves humble people willing to admit and not argue their way before God.. God said its tithes you say its tenth

Goshen360: Because you lied in your answers and I want people to read you will.

Scriptures says, commandment = RECEIVE TITHE. You said, commandment = PRIESTHOOD. What kind of manipulation is that? And you want me to leave you alone? Nbanu! Thank God for Hebrews 7 that exposes all you tithe teachers.

Can i ask you a question, when did you write you GEC, WAEC, NECO or School Cert?
Also did you do well in English language?

You should know if 10 people argue to a single direction against your single opinion, they can not all be fool. Everybody has told you and they are still telling you. If you have a pastor go and show him or your spiritual father, so he can teach you.

The only thing that make a man honorable is admitting fault and i would have hope you have that quality because people attest to the fact that you are quick to apologies, but you are not quick to perceived that you are making a mistake? "

Goshen360: Okay, given your analysis compared to that of Abraham. You can say Abraham tithed from whatever is left which you even agree from the highlight above those things were NOT his 'personal' properties. Why do you people draw compulsory tithing from what Abraham did which wasn't even tithed from his 'personal' properties or increase?

There is no doubt that you are manupulating yourself. Tithes is taken from what you earn. You are so funny. It like making $100 and you paid 10% which is your tithes and something happened picky pocket guy came and took it away from you. The moment you realized, you went to call your brother and your brother went with you because he has big chest and he is a military boxer so he boxed the guy and help you retrieved your $90 and then collected all the money that the picky pocket guy has collected from others and then gave you back your money and the other money he collected from the guy that pick your pocket was divided into 10 places and he gave one as his tithes which is also his 10th. Would you have given him back your $90, i know you, first thing you will do his to ask him first of your $90 before he even say thank you lord i boxed that guy badly with your help.

Goshen360: Okay, since you think I'm shifting now. Let's go back to the main issue then. Your answers then was the priesthood was the one that was abolished but verse 5 says they have commandment and that commandment is TO TAKE TITHE. It is NOT commadment to ESTABLISH PRIESTHOOD. When the commandment is annulled, what was cancelled? Priesthood?

I am not going back with you on a topic that i have trashed, even a novice can attest to that fact. So if you do not really have anything to do, go back and re-read what i have written. If that is too hard, go and pray to God so he gives you clear mind and understanding to understand his scripture.

Goshen360: What am I selecting? Nothing! I said, Lot was part of the ALL that Abraham recovered. Is that not?

And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

If Lot was part of the ALL that was recovered, then that is taken as Abraham's 100% income. I'm still trying to let you see that TENTH doesn't EQUAL TITHE.

Now, Abraham has 100% from war right and the tithe according to your definition is 10%, which is 10 in this case. Right!

Now, take Lot and his goods out of the 100%. Saying we're left with 80% (taken out of the whole 100%)

Now, your initial definition of tithe would have been 10 taken the 100% of income BUT by 'tenth part'. The servants of Abraham had taken or eaten some parts, lots and his goods is out (from the same 100%) Abraham then gave 'tenth' part from the remaining of the division - THAT IS NOT TITHE ANYMORE, because from what the tithe was given or paid had reduced from 100% to say 75%. What Abraham was giving then was 'tenth' part of the 75 remaining percent.

You are trying to believe what you want.. This is another scenario..

A man work and at the end of his two weeks he got a paycheck, lets say $100.. His actual total earn income was not $100 but let say the government has taken $20 for tax, EI, Medical, IN etc and the money he has in his hand is $100 but total made before tax was $120 you can not say he should pay $20 tithes because its not part of what he can spend, nor is it under the doctrine of tithing. The doctrine of tithing which also meant tenth percent of what you earn means Abraham took all and paid tithes of all that he could pay tithes on, which does not include the men that went with him to war, Lot and his family, including his slave, but the property of those that took Lots and his house hold captive which include their women, goats, cattle, gold, silver, brass, food and their slaves..

Mr Goshen, you are shifting from tithes has been abolished to Tithes is different from Tenth percent, please know that God is the best mathematicians and knows what he is talking about and the writer of Hebrew who is Paul is not a novice too, but an educated man, who must have vert and analyze the book of Moses before writing about it. So you can not be smarter than them even if you have triple PhDs which i doubt you have even 1.

So just rest your argument because it holds no water but leaking lots of fluids.. sorry i have to be sincere with you

Goshen360: Interestingly, people are reading you and you're simply helping to make my point come alive. Now, you've said my total income say it's $100 just like everything Abraham got from the war was his total income, including Lot his brother. I was telling you that 'tithe' does NOT equal 'tenth'. Now, if Abraham takes out Lot from his total income (in this case), he is left with say 90% and now, you're saying Abraham then GAVE tithe from the 90%.

Very simply and plain, Abraham DIDN'T give tithe ANYMORE, he gave TENTH. Tenth is a tenth part AFTER division. That is, after taking out his brother and his brother's goods. He also gave back to King of Sodom the rest which is another portion of the division. He only gave a tenth part from the goods to Melchizedek, THAT IS NOT TITHE! Tithe is 10% of the TOTAL.

Now, you people that teach tithes, TAKEN YOUR TOTAL INCOME into this case of Abraham, do you also give the rest of 90% to the equivalent of the king of Sodom your boss .

Interesting that you fail to interpret verse 9 of Hebrew 7.. "9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham." Does different words that meant the same thing disturbs your comprehension or you chose to ignore the fact that English dictionary is there to help you address this problem?

Goshen360: BUT Lot was part of the ALL.....which means INCOME for Abraham. NO

All? read from 16... You do lots of selective reading that also leads you to selective comprehension= Selective understanding