GothamCities: That's not lying. It was just my approximate thinking without consulting any data sources. Howbeit, your 102 million against 1.4billion still holds no water. You cannot call 1.4 billion people atheists just because 102 million are atheists.
Did you read this part? "Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities"
GothamCities: That can still be challenged. See the attached screenshot.
I'm not yet disputing your stand on the source of morality. My main argument is that, what you call morality is not morality in the actual sense of the word.
We are discussing source of morality NOT what is morality. But if yiu want to know what morality is, read below!
SIRTee15: Everything!!!! otherwise I will conclude u know nothing about morality. Morality has everything to do with public behaviour, conduct and appearance.
Now answer my question.
If your daughter brings any of these guys as her future husband, will u approve? The guy is hard-working, runs a good business, treats your daughter like a queen, respects her and also empowers her. They both love each other genuinely and its quite obvious.
Will u encourage your daughter to marry him?
If the answer is no, on what basis. What is the source of such objection
Now let's see doublespeak in action.
Since you have decided to go completely puerile let's go! Before I answer, do you think it is because of religion that people cover their private parts?
GothamCities: I think you need to define what you understand by morality. Most of the examples you raised are not moral issues at all. Empathy is not morality. Conscience is not necessarily moral. There are many people who genuinely and sincerely do immoral things simply because they did not know they were wrong. Their consciences never condemned them. The conscience guides only on the basic forms of morality. But morality itself goes far beyond the basicity of the conscience. And, actually, don't start thinking that serial killers and armed robbers were never told or taught while growing up that such things are not good. I find your argument that "if you tell a child that stealing is wrong, he will not steal" very amusing.
That's why you still need to honestly answer the questions Sirtee15 threw you.
GothamCities: China has over 2 Billion people. How can a negligible fraction - 102 million people out of 2 billion decide the identity of the nation?
Stop lying. You forget we have Google. China is 1.4 Billion and decreasing. Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities, and you'll have about 102 million left!
I don't have to watch the propaganda video to know that if Britain still ran India today they won't be as corrupt and scammy as they are.. And by the way how come such a gigantic giant of a country (Pakistan was part of India) was being run by tiny Britain (despite all their fabled juju)? Have they no Shame?!
emmyN: No, women did not enable polygamy. In their case they had no choice. Men ruled the world and still do.
If men ran,the world how come polygamy has disappeared in much of the world? How come in most of Nigeria you can't have 4 wives no matter how rich you are?
Clearly women won - polygamy has disappeared while hypergamy survives and thriving!
SIRTee15: U are becoming annoying. Now let me expose your hypocrisy.
If your daughter bring any of these guys as her future husband, will u approve? The guy is hard-working, runs a good business, treats your daughter like a queen, respects her and also empowers her.
Will u encourage your daughter to marry him?
If the answer is no, on what basis. What is the source of such objection
Now let's see doublespeak in action.
I hope you haven't finally lost it. What has this to do with the discussion??
Dtruthspeaker: It's like your medicine has finished.
Was your objection not "Adam had no knowledge of good from evil"? Only to change post after i answered you to "Adam did not create himself nor was he the one that gave himself the type of brain".
And now, yet again have you changed post to yet another stupi... question saying "how can you punish him for the choices"
Never mind the tables moving in your head. Question is, did Adam deserve to be punished. Did he control the processes within his brain that decided to eat? Could he have overridden the decision of those processes, the decision of his own brain? With what?
The woman was punished by ignorant society, NOT God!
Dtruthspeaker: And yes, Law is a religion and from religion hence why it is religion that says a father/mother has a duty to take care of his family, children and that they had no rights to carnivore other humans.
People were doing all that before religion was invented. I honestly can't believe you people are arguing this (especially in this day of AI below!)
The topic simply says "disclose your source of morality as an atheist". Yet, here you are crying about attacking atheist and screaming "RELIGION IS NOT THE ONLY SOURCE OF MORALITY" when that is not even the topic. See how you people fail?
You obviously respond without first reading. Again, here's what I posted earlier with attached screenshot. Please try and read it this time, especially the bolded. Also try to read the screenshot. Try to understand them this time!
I am a Christian but I think this is a rather poor angle from which to attack atheism. Is religion the source of human empathy, evolutionary social instincts, reasoning, and shared cultural agreements?? Humans are social animals. Compassion and a basic instinct to avoid causing pain are natural traits that help groups survive and cooperate. Communities create rules snd social contracts —such as laws against theft or harm—because life works better when people agree to respect each other. Personal values also come from culture, upbringing, family, education, history, and the surrounding society, which have evolved long before and alongside organized religion!
Dtruthspeaker: See now you have moved post to "religion that gave you a conscience". Who said that?
Who wants to join CCP? Even here in Nigeria Christians don't join power thieves is it now China's power thieves who have no regard for human rights and Rule of Law?
Please
CCP has 102 million members. Anybody who is anybody at all in China is a member of CCP. A country with that number of atheists is an atheist country!
We always read of high profile politicians jailed in US. We copied US system. Nigeria is full of corrupt high-profile people. Name ONE high-profile Nigerian recently convicted and jailed for corruption
Dtruthspeaker: This is you setting up your own version of argument and committing a strawman fallacy. No one said Adam created himself and gave himself his brain.
Also, it does not matter whether God knew or not exactly as it does not matter whether you knew or not when your child failed/passed common entrance. That is not the issue.
So all your arguments are strawman fallacies
I hope I'm not discussing with some sort of a %$# WHERE IS THE STRAWMAN??! Simple, if Adam is ultimately not responsible for his choices, how can you punish him for the choices??! If he were given a different type of brain or exposed to different experiences, his choice would have been different. Example, if Eve ate the fruit and dropped dead - just example.
Here's what you wrote: "as it does not matter whether you knew or not when your child failed/passed common entrance." Whew!!
Dtruthspeaker: This is still a departure from the topic.
The question is disclose your source of morality as an atheist. Simple
SIRTee15: I'm not here to debate evidence for religion. That's what u guys do all the time. Deflect and refuse to answer question.
Whether Moses and YHWH exist is not the argument here. Jews believe the source of their morality is derived from the 10 commandment- a religious text. Simple.
Atheist will say there's no God. Fine. Then tell us what is the source of your own morality independent of a God.
Why would u disagree if your 23 yr old daughter decides she wants to build a career in adult movie industry and become a 'corn' star or only fan model.
Why would u consider such act immoral.
That'sy question atheist have failed to answer in previous thread and that have started their whataboutism again.
Pls unless u give a direct answer to my simple question I will not deem u a response. I'm done with argument already. Answer or STAY SILENT AND ALLOW THE SILENCE BECOME LOUDER.
With due respect, you people should stop disgracing Christians by clinging to this rather stu pid argument. There are many other ways you can attack atheists and they'll have no response - example, where did all this come from? RELIGION IS NOT THE ONLY SOURCE OF MORALITY!!!! If you raise a child not to steal, he won't steal and never tie it to religion, he won't steal! Proverbs 22:6 even says exactly that: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it"! Besides humans having inate morality, it can also come from self-interest, fear, etc I can't believe, of all things, this is what you folks choose to argue!
triplechoice: You say you're not here to debate evidence for religion . Good. Then admit that your claim, "morality comes from God" , is a statement of faith, not something you can prove.
I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic/irreligious I don't really use labels. I simply agreed with QuinnQQ that morality comes from empathy, social instincts reasoning, culture and shared human experience. That's the source of my morality. You haven't addressed that. You just repeated that Jews believe their morality comes from the ten commandments.
I don't dispute what Jews believe. I reject the claim that their belief proves God gave it.
My morality is grounded in human well-being , empathy, reason, and social cooperation. Yours is grounded in religious belief. You're at liberty to hold yours. But you can't claim it's the only source and you can't demand I adopt it without evidence. Period.
Don't mind that guy. He annoyingly talks as if he's looking down from some sort of pedestal, yet he doesn't know what he's talking about!
Dtruthspeaker: See now you have moved post to "religion that gave you a conscience". Who said that?
Who wants to join CCP? Even here in Nigeria Christians don't join power thieves is it now China's power thieves who have no regard for human rights and Rule of Law?
Please
The topic is "Atheist Source Of Morality". One can be very moral without input from religion whatsoever. Some also can be very immoral despite religiosity. If you bring up a child that he should never steal because it is wrong. He won't steal. Adding that God would punish him if he does is icing on the already baked cake!
Dtruthspeaker: In the other thread you claimed you were a Christian only to show how you are true atheist by your lying.
That aside, do you need to know good and evil to play/not play with a 16ft crocodile?
No
And was Adam accused and charged with "Not knowing good and evil"?
No
He was charged for knowing obedience and disobedience and choosing to listen to his wife in disobedience to God.
And you can't play with a 16ft croc, like the boy who climbed into the lion's zone recently and claim first time offender.
I AM a Christian but I'm NOT a hypocrite. With due respect, you argue rather child-like. Here's my subsequent post. Respond to it:
You carefully avoided the fact that Adam did not create himself nor was he the one that gave himself the type of brain that would arrive at the conclusion that the thing to do was to eat the fruit. EVERYTHING Adam did was entirely a result of the type of brain he was given and the type of experiences he was,exposed to - none of which he chose!
You also carefully avoided the fact that long before he was created God already knew he'd eat the fruit!
PCHC: I intend for my video/writing to be faithful and truthful without guile.
As for the case study for example, let's establish these three facts:
{1}. Fact One: Adam had knowledge of God, as well as knowledge of good and evil though at lower degree, even before he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Adam had conscience that draws the line between good and evil. We are talking of a man who was Ruler of the whole world, including all birds that moves in the open heaven, all moving things in the seas, and all things that move on the earth.
Yes, even though God assigned angels to guard and minister to the Garden of God or paradise, Adam was their Captain or Commander incharge over the angels dressing and keeping the Garden, including over the cherubim. Don't think the Cherubim and flaming sword guarding the Garden came after Adam was taken out, rather they had been there before Adam sinned. Only that before Adam sinned, they were subject to Adam; but after Adam sinned they became fearful to Adam.
It takes a man of great wisdom and knowledge to both know and name all animals of the ground, and to both know and name the woman is bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh or taken out of him, even though he was unaware of when or how any of those creatures including the woman was secretly made. Just by looking at them he knew secrets, knowledge and had discernment of them.
In one of my recent writing here, I did mention that the intelligence God built into the man was taken from the clouds and Angels, while his eyes' material was taken from the Sun, just as his breath came from God Himself. So, never regard Adam as without knowledge enough to rule the earth or oversee the Garden of God. Infact, it's safer to regard Adam more knowledgeable before he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, than to regard Adam more knowledgeable after they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil: I tell you, Adam was more illuminated before he ate the forbidden and less illuminated when or after he ate the forbidden tree — Therefore, don't let Illuminati fool you.
{2} Fact two: When Adam did not know he was naked, there was no problem with that ignorance. Infact, that ignorance was bliss.
The point is, God was not going to judge Adam for being naked, but was to judge Adam for being disobedient.
Many people today continued in the part of the Serpent, selling the narrative that it was better as Eve ate the forbidden fruit otherwise mankind would still be walking naked and remained babies in minddet. One idiot even suggested that there should be "World Eve Remembrance Day" in our calendar to celebrate Eve eating of the Forbidden Tree to help humanity become civilized: for if not for her humanity would have remained primitive and walking naked in bushes among animals.
Those celebrating the civilization that the forbidden knowledge brought forget also the death and destruction the same knowledge brought. Which would you choose between these two options: Option 1, You will know every good and evil in the world but once you attain all-knowing of good and evil you must die that very day; Option 2, You will-depend on God to guide you with His Spirit or Message on what is good and what is not good, but you will live as long as keep His word
The Ignorance that is bliss is being independently blind in your natural abilities, but seeing through depending on the Spirit of God.
{3} Adam was not supposed or required to outsmart the cunning Serpent, rather Adam was supposed or required to keep the Commandment of God. It is as simple as that.
What business did Adam had with the Serpent you speak of? Even if there was someone Adam should outsmart, that should be to outsmart the woman whom Adam obviously knew better than. He had no business outsmarting a serpent. How can you tell the God who gave you everything including the woman that you were loyal to the woman more than you were loyal to the God? God gave you everything, including dominion, life, power, paradise, enjoyment, practical all goodness on the platter of gold without breaking a sweat; but the only thing the woman ever gave you was one or half forbidden fruit, and you because of her tiny forbidden gift you throw away your senses and your glorious destiny to betray your God in order not to miss what she was offering you? What kind of excuse or justification are you trying to make for Adam in this matter?
Apart from the Devil and his team, which other creature is as ungrateful as human beings?
Simple instruction, "Do not eat this, for you must die in the day you eat it." What has that got with being smarter or naked or ignorant or still a child?
Adam did not have to smarter than the Serpent, he only needed to be more grateful and more loyal to God than the Serpent — That's all Adam needed to overcome the Serpent and remain King in Paradise forever.
Let's establish three facts here also:
{1}. You mentioned that Adam clearly saw his wife eat the forbidden fruit and did not die but instead became wise — as a sign for Adam to follow. Many Christians deceived by their pastors, General Overseers, Prophets, Apostles and so-called fathers in the Lord, with so-called exegesis that either forces God's Severity and Warnings to blend with their hyper grace and prosperity messages or else they discard such Severity or Warnings of God as Old Testament or as unenlightened views of Old ministers, are also good in using false signs, testimonies, superstories and hypes, as miracles, signs and wonders, they sell to the people when they deceive them.
For Adam, he first observed the signs and wonders of his wife eating of the forbidden tree without any seen harm but false appearance of being wise: and he also foolishly believed and listened to his wife at the expense of obeying God. Same with that man of God from Judah, who listened to the signs and wonders of an old or elderly prophet at the direct expense of obeying God in First Kings chapter thirteen.
{2}. God already gave Adam first and last time offender's warning grace. The fact that God had to use, "Surely" in warning Adam of the death or inevitable consequences of eating of that tree. For a God who cannot lie, who's word practically created all things, to have to swear or painstakingly assure man with "Surely, Verily or Vow to man" in emphasis as if saying the same thing without the assurance was not good enough, and yet a serpent out of nowhere or a woman made you believe God was not serious or "God's Surely, Verily" is not exegesis but a theological error that does not agree with New Testament Character, Grace or Revelation of God; what more warnings do you think God would give to that man and he will hear?
{3}. The Punishment of Adam and his generations was also warning to Adam and to his generations. Their sufferings, their death, their been in hell etc., were all part of the last warning of God for the redemption of Adam and mankind. Figuratively, it's cruel punishment that lasted for 4 or 5 days, and those 4 or 5 days translated into about 4000 or 5000 thousand years till the Lord Jesus Christ descended into Hell and restored Adam and Eve back to Paradise and to Heaven. So currently, Adam and Eve have been forgiven and restore into far more glorious estate than they had in the beginning.
Unfortunately, not all descendants of Adam and Eve got to be saved, delivered or redeemed. The current punishment or suffering people are facing is not to blame Adam and Eve, but to sin and wickedness of mankind and of devils. Ensure you are not part of the sinners or devils, but part of the righteous and holy ones in all records of your life on earth.
This is exactly what I mean by hypocrisy. You carefully avoided the fact that Adam did not create himself nor was he the one that gave himself the type of brain that would arrive at the conclusion that the thing to do was to eat the fruit. EVERYTHING Adam did was entirely a result of the type if brain he was given and the tyoe if experiences he was,exposed to - none of which he chose!
You also carefully avoided the fact that long before he was created God already knew he'd eat the fruit!
DMCA: AI go analyze d data but no be every data e fit make sense out of. Eg after analyzing QuinQ aka QuinQQ nairaland posts e go take person like lalami3232 to give report why QuinQ wan start act pornography with face covered
AI very rarely makes mistakes and it seems to know everything. Example below, how does it know I mean that Diezani?
Dtruthspeaker: Why do you deceive yourself? Who told you China is an atheist state? Do they not still practice their Taoism and budhisim and their old religious festivals even today? So because their present dictator king is ruling them with an iron fist and restricting/quashing Christianity is what makes him an atheist? Did China just fall out from the sky? C'mon, don't talk rubbish.
And yes, Law is a religion and from religion hence why it is religion that says a father/mother has a duty to take care of his family, children and that they had no rights to carnivore other humans.
SIRTee15: This will be last post to u because it's obvious u punching far above your level on this matter. Imagine comparing morality to responsibility. Even a wicked father who is a murderer takes care of their offspring. Most serial killers have families that they love to death and will never harm. Their families are mostly shocked when a serial killers is arrested and exposed as a murderer. They always say he was a loving father and husband.
China just became atheist less than 60 yrs ago. For thousands of years they have a moral code built within Confucianism moral code which they beleive is divine, and that's what they still use today. Modern day chinese moral framework is built around Confucius religious teaching even if they don't follow the theology. My friend go.and read and stop embarassing yourself in public. Note if I don't reply u again, it's because your post was riddled with if ignorance; there's a limit to what I can take of ignorance.
Dtruthspeaker: See, you are doing exactly what he said atheists do which makes them hypocrites for he has put away his own belief in Christianity and in religion as the best basis of morality to ask and to ascertain what is the basis of atheists morality.
The focus now is on atheists to show us their foundation of morality belief if at all they have one.
And the answer is SILENCE.
Therefore, in the absence of any valid opposition, religion is winning and atheism has no basis of morality as his threads prove
Is it religion that gave you a conscience? I am tired. You folks should read this below and research more on the natural state of human condition without input of religion.
China is officially an atheist state (not just anti Christianity). You can't be in CCP if you hold any religious beliefs or belong to any religion
Foreign Affairs › Re: BREAKING: Kennedy Center Votes To Close After Trump Name Blocked by QuinQQ(f): 1:54am On Sep 16
