₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
The guy is dull. His statements you quoted contradict his own ideology. He is a kid that needs to humble his ego and learn. He has a long way to go

A very very long way bro.

AbuUthaymeen:
HADITH IS WORD OF ALLAH. . ALLAH SAID, WE SHOULD FOLLOW ALLAH AND RASUL. . AND HADITH IS FALIABLE, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SCIENCE OF HADITH. .TO KN0W TRUTH AND LIES. . . AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHY BUKHARI AND MUSLIM C0MPILED SAHEEH HADITHS . . .without rasul explanation(hadiths) . . . there is n0 way anyb0dy will understand islam talkless of practising it. . . ign0rance aint excuse, if it is,rasul father w0nt be in hell. . quran said ahlu kitab(jews and christians are kufar). . using tesubah is bida c0z its n0t in islam. . suratul maidah verse 3 said our religion is c0mplete. . . .any0ne d0ing any act of w0rship NOT the way rasul did is directly rejecting the quran verse..and thereby bec0mes a kafir after itz clear-.65

Hadith is word of Allah?
I give up on you bro
Buhari compiled Hadith?
I am shaking my head.


Cc Empiree
See what your friend is saying.

He doesn't know what he is saying at all.

AbuUthaymeen:
Raintaker . . . islam is to be practised according to how rasul did, say and belief . . quran verses make takfir of christians and jews. . . also of muslims u became kafir, also of idolators and people who divide ther religion. . .(aw0n elegbe, like sufi and co) ..gp

So are we not practising Islam according to how Rasul did or what are you saying?
Which verses made Takfir on them o(the Quran is comprehensive enough.)

AbuUthaymeen:
Raintaker . . . islam is to be practised according to how rasul did, say and belief . . quran verses make takfir of christians and jews. . . also of muslims u became kafir, also of idolators and people who divide ther religion. . .(aw0n elegbe, like sufi and co) ..gp

So are we not practising Islam according to how Rasul did or what are you saying?

AbuUthaymeen:
YOU DO N0T BELIEVE IN HADITHS?

You are d one that said Allah said, it wasn't me.
So it's your word and I told u to bring evidence from what you stated.

Or Hadith is also d WORD of Allah according to Jabata?






About your question, I believe hadiths are fallible

AbuUthaymeen:
ITS THE SAME THING. THEY ARE BOTH IBAADAT AND THEY ARE BOTH BIDA. . . salat. . 4 rakah is an order fr0m ALLAH.. making count with right finger only for any zikr is a c0mmand fr0m ALLAH... PERFORMING 1 RAKAT INSTEAD OF 4 because u want ease = bida..replacing 4 with 1. . . ALLAH said we must make zikr with hand and u replace it with tesubah and other counting method because u d0nt wana lose c0unt or u want ease = bida . .3r u are disobeying ALLAH and making law into islam which is kufru. . .4

Wherevisvd evidence that Allah told you you must make dhikr with hand?

Bring a Quranic verse that said that unless don't say that again.

AbuUthaymeen:
You are still saying the same thing..still about ign0rance.. even without u telling them anything. . its their(non muslims and muslims) duty to find out and know about islam. . . . . . didnt u tell them about islam? why didnt they accept islam? havent the message of islam reached them? just for n0n muslim to hear the name prophet muhammad is en0ugh proof that such person has heared of islam. . . . .BESIDES THERE ARE OTHER QURAN VERSES THAT 7TATE IT CLEARLY THAT AHLU KITAB(christians and jews are kufar) . . . . . . . .. . .afhasfu k

Chai bros, don't say that again o for dem to hear d name Prophet Muhammad they must believe?

(This is your opinion no evidence for it)

Oh yh, I told them about Islam as you can see in my post.

So many years of not knowing what Islam is.

One year of someone telling you about Islam, d person left and you are still with those who represent Islam wrongly?

They fear Muslims cos of d false doctrine they've witnessed, Fulani even destroyed a neighbouring village during my stay.
All Hausa Fulani in my village ran away, even we that are not Hausa Fulani had to be careful.

So those ones I mentioned above will believe in Islam just like that?
Did you know how many years spent in calling people to Islam?
Bros you are still living in your own head(no offence meant)

Ahlul Kitab were Kufars in d Quran? Bring your evidence.
I have brought my own evidence from the alQuran that they are not Kufars , you say they are and you saw it in d Quran, bring your own evidence.

AbuUthaymeen:
I UNDERSTAND YOU BRO.. IT SEEMS EASY AND LOVELY AND IT SEEMS LIKE ITS GOING TO MAKE ISLAM LOOK EVOLVE AND CIVILIZED abi. . the thing is, whatever is ibaadat, an act of worship.. u know we are doing it for ALLAH abi. . .and we must follow prophet muhammad order on it abi? . .as in every act of w0rship must be d0ne for ALLAH sake and in the way prophet muhammad did it abi? . . the perfect answer for ur misunderstanding with tesubah = saheeh muslim. .hadith number 1404. . Dea is no difference between s0me0ne using tesubah and s0me0ne who decides to perform 1 rakah of salat for every zuhr and ashr because 1 rakah is much easier than 4 rakah. ..ave qmp

Very Very different.

One rakah of Salat is rubbish.

Using tesuba is just for counting, just like we use Abacus too.
You want to make subhanallah 33x after a solat, you ave a tesuba and your hand, your tesuba has marked places that you won't make mistake on getting there.
But while using your hands, you can make mistakes due to human error.

Which would you go for?.

It's very different from your solat analogy.


Ko Jo ara won rara

AbuUthaymeen:
OK. .LET ME SIMPLIFY IT. . A JEW, A CHRISTIAN THAT DOESNT BELIEF IN ANYTHING ABOUT ISLAM IS A KAFIR because they do n0t have the real taorat or injil.. believer that has real taorat and injil existed only during taorat and injil era. . musa goes, injil goes, eesa goes, injil goes. . . rasul c0mes with quran to affirm the real belief of real f0ll0wers of musa and eesa. .and. .if they do truly believe in eesa and musa; they will surely f0ll0w rasul, quran and hadith= islam... . and do jews and christians of rasul era till date f0ll0w injil or taorat absolutely NO. . the holy b0oks are g0ne. . . .can 0nly be f0und in quran. . . . . . .wadaysm

You are still getting it wrong
check out my next mention

AbuUthaymeen:
MOST KNOWS IT..AND S0ME DOESNT.. besides, s0me scholars even c0rrected fatwa(s) of sahabah. . eri lo matter. . . and what i have just said concerning the ign0rance is self explanat0ry and c0mm0n sense. . . . .and, christians,jews,serbians and others that were alive during rasul prophet hood and didnt submit to prophet muhammad is a kafir because that pers0n has disbelieved in their holy b0ok. .coz its there that prophet muhammad is c0ming, just like its in jewish injila that prophet eesa is c0ming. . a jew that doesnt submit to rasul eesa during and after eesa is a kafir and so is prophet eesa follower that doesnt submit to rasul. . .a perfect example is quran and hadith. .u must believe in both, disbelieve in 1 is same as disbelief in all. .and so is prophets and pillar of islam. . .gag p p kjn

Ase

Being a Kafir is deeper than what you think.
How are you sure all the conditions of them being kafirs have been fulfilled?
Are you in their mind?
Do you know d messages that got to them and the mental conditions it met them?


Take this for instance.


I was in an Igbo village throughout last year, D people I lived with were mostly Catholics.
The only thing they know about Islam is that Fulani's are Muslims.
And the way those Fulanis represented Islam over there was bad and they also hear news about Boko harams being Muslims.
When I told them I was a Muslim, they were surprised cos I was different from everything they've known all their life about Islam.

Some of them even wanted to join me to pray, but they were never Muslims and never became Muslims cos of all they know about Islam is d false one.

So these set of people , believe in God, do good , believe in d message they knew was sent to them

If they die , you won't call them Kafir cos of d little they know about Islam.

Do you understand?

AbuUthaymeen:
QURAN,ISLAM IS ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER PROPHET MESSAGES.."THE ONLY SIMILARITY IS TAWHEED" LAWS AND MODE OF W0RSHIP IS FAR DIFFERENT.."ALLAH SAID QURAN CAME TO CONFIRM THE OTHER HOLY BOOKS..ALLAH ALSO SAID THAT "there are similarities and differences in the the messages prophet delivers"..similarity=tawheed. .laws,mode of w0rship=different.. U

Ase.

What is the main message of Islam and What is the main message of d other religions?

AbuUthaymeen:
Yes they added ign0rance but the ign0rance doesnt add up or decrease anything in the aayah. .it's already hidden in the aayah. . for example, i saw a man using tesubah. i then tell him that y are u using tesubah, he said thats how aw0n alfa wa do use it(has shown his ign0rance.. 1st c0nditi0n don go). i explained to him that its n0t in islam and he underst0od and throw the tesubah away and started using his hands. . .he was ahlu bida, doing kufru act but isnt a kafir due to ign0rance. .he was explained to and follow the truth. .he then becomes a muslim. . .4

Hidden in which Ayah?
Is everything in d Quran not clear and open according to some?
So why is it hidden that you see and others do not see it?

AbuUthaymeen:
Yes they added ign0rance but the ign0rance doesnt add up or decrease anything in the aayah. .it's already hidden in the aayah. . for example, i saw a man using tesubah. i then tell him that y are u using tesubah, he said thats how aw0n alfa wa do use it(has shown his ign0rance.. 1st c0nditi0n don go). i explained to him that its n0t in islam and he underst0od and throw the tesubah away and started using his hands. . .he was ahlu bida, doing kufru act but isnt a kafir due to ign0rance. .he was explained to and follow the truth. .he then becomes a muslim. . .4

Ase.
Your explanation does not hold water.


What is d use of tesuba and What is d use of Hand and what is d use of digital tesuba.


which is d easiest in their usage.

AbuUthaymeen:
PROPHET SAID IT HIMSELF THAT HIS FATHER IS INSIDE HELL. . .THAT MEANS HE DIED A KAFIR. . . . . .OR SH0ULD I QUOTE THE HADITH FOR YOU?7P

Yes quote d Hadith.

Mind you it is a Daif Hadith and it's against common sense.
Cos I know d Hadith.

AbuUthaymeen:
AND MY QUESTION IS, UPHOLDING THE MESSAGE OF THEIR PROPHET MAKES THEM A BELIEVER BEFORE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PROPHET HOOD OR AFTER OR BOTH? . . . . . . .#K. TJOAFAJMIR#

Well, that is why I asked you to make sure you understand my post and read four or five times.


Is d message of their prophets different from the one the Prophet Muhammad brought?




Al Imran Verse 3


ﻧَﺰَّﻝَ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻚَ ﺍﻟْﻜِﺘَﺎﺏَ ﺑِﺎﻟْﺤَﻖِّ ﻣُﺼَﺪِّﻗﺎً ﻟِّﻤَﺎ ﺑَﻴْﻦَ ﻳَﺪَﻳْﻪِ ﻭَﺃَﻧﺰَﻝَ ﺍﻟﺘَّﻮْﺭَﺍﺓَ ﻭَﺍﻹِﻧﺠِﻴﻞَ 3}
: It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel)

AbuUthaymeen:
I understand what you are trying to say. . that whoever(christian,jew,serbian) uphold the true message of their prophet is n0t a kafir ..abi? . . .qp

Oh yes.

AbuUthaymeen:
I know and understand what you are trying to say. its already in quran. . 1 . forgetfulness 2. forcefulness 3. misunderstood. . . . . . . .and scholars add ign0rance . . those are the shurut, conditions SOMEONE MUST PASS THROUGH BEFORE THAT PERSON BECOMES A KAFIR. . . . .ALAS! its only for who is alive. . . . .ignorance is not an excuse to die as a kafir. . 1. ALLAH said, when he created us all, HE asked us who will we w0rship when we get to earth. . we all said ALLAH . . . And perfect example of that is rasul father and m0ther. . .they died a kafir. . . . . . . .8443be

So the prophet's parents died as Kafirs and they'd go to hell?
(Astaga furulahi).

And you are saying the scholars added ignorance?
According to you, there is no Scholars said or agreed in Islam.
So where is that coming from?
You are a bag of contradictions.

AbuUthaymeen:
OK. Someone who disbelief in everything in quran and other holy books, in prophets of Allah, in Allah, in angels of ALLAH, in judgement day( last day ), in qadar(g0od and bad) . . . . . . s0me0ne who disbelief in just -only one or two or three or four or five or all(six) . . . is that pers0n a muslim or kafir? #please answer# . . . mind you, ALLAH stated it all clearly in quran and hadith . . . quran and hadiths are w0rds of ALLAH . . . AND ALLAH SAID UNBELIEVERS IN ANY OR ALL OF THE PILLARS OF ISLAM IS A KAFIR\KUFAR. . . AND ALLAH MADE TAKFIR OF MUSLIMS AND KAFIR IN HOLY QURAN . . AND IN HADITH . . . . . .so? . have u n0w accept that we can make takfir and that there is kafir? ... # bo is a kafir, in#

Your problem is you do not understand Arabic.

What is the root word of Kafir?

An Idolator may be a kafir or might not, because you do not know d level of message they've received, their thinking faculty, circumstances and other stuffs will be put into consideration.


I'll share an instance with you Insha Allah, but make sure you read my post 4 times and understand very well.

AbuUthaymeen:
Raintaker are you saying those christians, jews, serbians of then that exist before prophet muhammad or that existed during and after prophet muhammad are n0t kafir?

Guy read this o.
And make sure You sit down and read it 3 or 4 times and ponder over it.




Contrary to popular believe, Jews and Christians (collectively known in the Quran as The People of the Book) are not necessarily Kafirs provided they believe in the existence of God, uphold a monotheistic lifestyle, engage in righteous deeds, and uphold the rituals and ceremonies outline in their respected (original) scriptures. [1] :
"Indeed, those who believe , and
those who are Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians , any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."[Quran 2:62]
"Indeed, those who believe , and those who are Jews, and the Sabians and the Christians , any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."[Quran 5:69]
Nor is a Kafir someone whom the truth of a certain matter (in this case the existence and oneness of God) has either never reached or has not been clearly manifested to him, or has come to him in such a garbled and corrupt(ed) form that it makes it difficult for him to recognize it as the truth. This type of person is better characterized ‘absence of belief’, and Allah, as the Quran teaches, will not punish such a person's; It has never been the will of God to punish anyone or a people unjustly, especially when people do not know what they are doing is wrong and there is still hope that they may take heed once the truth has been made absolutely clear to them:
“Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its center a messenger , rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practice iniquity”[Quran 28:59]
"“This is because thy Lord destroys not the townships arbitrarily while their people are unconscious (of the wrong they do) ”[Quran 6:131]
Nor is a Kafir an idolater, a Non-Muslim or even one that does not believe.
Rather, a Kafir , as evidenced from the Quran, is a 'state' that one 'enters' into once the truth has been clearly manifested to them, made absolutely clear and there is no reason left to deny it (given the recipient's circumstances, faculties etc.). However if, despite the clear evidence and proof, the recipient still rejects the truth and or conceals it from within themselves, it is then that one enters into a state of Kafir.
[2]
How would God bestow His guidance upon people who have resolved to deny the truth.... [after] all evidence of the truth has come unto them ? For, God does not guide such evildoing folk. [Quran 3:86]
-
To conclude, the term Kafir is a very serious matter, and unfortunately Muslim masses often have an unwarranted understanding of it and what it means from a Quran's perspective. ' Kufr' (disbelief) has little to do with disbelief in God. Even Satan was termed a 'disbeliever' ( wakana mina'l KAFIREEN 2:34) yet he clearly believed in and feared God.:
"Indeed I am clear of you, indeed I see what you do not see, INDEED I FEAR GOD ; and God is severe in requiting (evil)" [Quran 8:48]
"Like the example of Satan when he says to man: "Disbelieve", but when he disbelieves, he says: "Indeed, I am clear of you. INDEED I FEAR GOD , the Lord of the worlds" [Quran 59:16]
An individual may potentially follow a particular path with unrelenting zeal, rest assured that they claim to believe in God, yet when a particular truth is clearly manifested to them that makes evident to them the errors of their ways, they deny it. Such a denial in the face of evident truth is no different from the arrogance displayed by Satan who knowing full well the truth of the matter, denied it.[4]
One can never know when someone has entered a state of
kufr . Their faculties, the clarity of truth that has reached them, their circumstances will all be taken into account and given the immense complexities and variables, it can only be for God to pronounce judgment on the state of a soul and not for man. For some, belief and disbelief is a continuous cycle and it is only God that can make an appropriate judgment.

AbuUthaymeen:
Raintaker u are n0t clear 0n who kafir is n0r calling kafir a kafir . . in a sentence on 2. . . tell us who is a kafir and can we call a kafir a kafir. . . thank you

You do not know who a kafir is, only Allah knows who a kafir is.



So how would you call someone something you don't know?



Answer me.

iamgenius:
Jazaaka Llaahu Khayran brother, If it is clear to us that someone reject anything brought by Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) after clear explanation to the person, we can call him a Kaafir. If we don't believe that the person is a Kaafir, we are also rejecting the truth that the person is a Kaafir. Life doesn't only arise when someone reject the existence of Allah, even if a Muslim reject the fact that we have to believe in everything the Prophet says after we showed in clear evidences and he reject it by actions or words or by heart, the person is no more a Muslim he is a Kaafir. There are many ways one can become a Kaafir. I think the Scholars stated some ten things that can render one a kaafir. May Allah save us from kufr Aamen

Aamen bro, but are you sure that is what you deduced from my post?
Read this again, albeit slowly.

Rather, a Kafir , as evidenced from the Quran, is a 'state' that one 'enters' into once the truth has been clearly manifested to them, made absolutely clear and there is no reason left to deny it (given the recipient's circumstances, faculties etc.). However if, despite the clear evidence and proof, the recipient still rejects the truth and or conceals it from within themselves, it is then that one enters into a state of Kafir.
[2]
How would God bestow His guidance upon people who have resolved to deny the truth.... [after] all evidence of the truth has come unto them ? For, God does not guide such evildoing folk. [Quran 3:86]
-
To conclude, the term Kafir is a very serious matter, and unfortunately Muslim masses often have an unwarranted understanding of it and what it means from a Quran's perspective. ' Kufr' (disbelief) has little to do with disbelief in God. Even Satan was termed a 'disbeliever' ( wakana mina'l KAFIREEN 2:34) yet he clearly believed in and feared God.:
"Indeed I am clear of you, indeed I see what you do not see, INDEED I FEAR GOD ; and God is severe in requiting (evil)" [Quran 8:48]
"Like the example of Satan when he says to man: "Disbelieve", but when he disbelieves, he says: "Indeed, I am clear of you. INDEED I FEAR GOD , the Lord of the worlds" [Quran 59:16]
An individual may potentially follow a particular path with unrelenting zeal, rest assured that they claim to believe in God, yet when a particular truth is clearly manifested to them that makes evident to them the errors of their ways, they deny it. Such a denial in the face of evident truth is no different from the arrogance displayed by Satan who knowing full well the truth of the matter, denied it.[4]
One can never know when someone has entered a state of
kufr . Their faculties, the clarity of truth that has reached them, their circumstances will all be taken into account and given the immense complexities and variables, it can only be for God to pronounce judgment on the state of a soul and not for man. For some, belief and disbelief is a continuous cycle and it is only God that can make an appropriate judgment. [2]
That is ' kufr '.

First, I would like to share the definition of the word Kafir / Kufr .
DEFINITION OF THE WORD KAFIR / KUFR :
Kufr : A denial or rejection of the truth; Concealing the truth; Ingratitude; Choosing to live in the darkness of ignorance; Hiding or covering something; Closing eyes to the light of truth; Stubborn denial of the truth; Concealing the truth; Knowingly oppose the truth; Uncritical adherence to ancestral views; Trying to be with the majority without discernment.
Kafir : One given to Kufr; One who adamantly denies or opposes the truth; Commonly translated as ‘infidel’; Derivatively and positively, a farmer who hides the seed under the soil ( SEE: Quran 57:20 ). Therefore, Kufr or Kafir does not apply to the unaware, anyone to whom the message has not been conveyed or reached. Rather it refers to one who rejects the truth (in this scenario: Islam) after it has been CLEARLY manifested to him, and he’s become fully cognizant of it with no reason left for him to deny / reject it (given the recipients circumstance, and faculties).
—
Since this [Quran 74:10] is the earliest Qur'anic occurrence of the expression kafir (the above surah having been preceded only by the first five verses of surah 96), its use here - and, by implication, in the whole of the Qur'an - is obviously determined by the meaning which it had in the speech of the Arabs before the advent of the Prophet Muhammad: in other words, the term kafir cannot be simply equated, as many Muslim theologians of post-classical times and practically all Western translators of the Qur'an have done, with "unbeliever" or "infidel" in the specific, restricted sense of one who rejects the system of doctrine and law promulgated in the Qur'an and amplified by the teachings of the Prophet - but must have a wider, more general meaning. This meaning is easily grasped when we bear in mind that the root verb of the participial noun kafir (and of the infinitive noun kufr) is kafara, "he [or "it"] covered [a thing]": thus, in 57:20 the tiller of the soil is called (without any pejorative implication) kafir, "one who covers", i.e., the sown seed with earth, just as the night is spoken of as having "covered" (kafara) the earth with darkness. In their abstract sense, both the verb and the nouns derived from it have a connotation of "concealing" something that exists or "denying" something that is true. Hence, in the usage of the Qur'an -with the exception of the one instance (in 57:20) where this participial noun signifies a "tiller of the soil" -a kafir is "one who denies [or "refuses to acknowledge"] the truth" in the widest, spiritual sense of this latter term: that is, irrespective of whether it relates to a cognition of the supreme truth -namely, the existence of God - or to a doctrine or ordinance enunciated in the divine writ, or to a self evident moral proposition, or to an acknowledgment of, and therefore gratitude for, favors received.
I would know like to explain who is not a kafir :
Contrary to popular believe, Jews and Christians (collectively known in the Quran as The People of the Book) are not necessarily Kafirs provided they believe in the existence of God, uphold a monotheistic lifestyle, engage in righteous deeds, and uphold the rituals and ceremonies outline in their respected (original) scriptures. [1] :
"Indeed, those who believe , and
those who are Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians , any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."[Quran 2:62]
"Indeed, those who believe , and those who are Jews, and the Sabians and the Christians , any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."[Quran 5:69]
Nor is a Kafir someone whom the truth of a certain matter (in this case the existence and oneness of God) has either never reached or has not been clearly manifested to him, or has come to him in such a garbled and corrupt(ed) form that it makes it difficult for him to recognize it as the truth. This type of person is better characterized ‘absence of belief’, and Allah, as the Quran teaches, will not punish such a person's; It has never been the will of God to punish anyone or a people unjustly, especially when people do not know what they are doing is wrong and there is still hope that they may take heed once the truth has been made absolutely clear to them:
“Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its center a messenger , rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practice iniquity”[Quran 28:59]
"“This is because thy Lord destroys not the townships arbitrarily while their people are unconscious (of the wrong they do) ”[Quran 6:131]
Nor is a Kafir an idolater, a Non-Muslim or even one that does not believe.
Rather, a Kafir , as evidenced from the Quran, is a 'state' that one 'enters' into once the truth has been clearly manifested to them, made absolutely clear and there is no reason left to deny it (given the recipient's circumstances, faculties etc.). However if, despite the clear evidence and proof, the recipient still rejects the truth and or conceals it from within themselves, it is then that one enters into a state of Kafir.
[2]
How would God bestow His guidance upon people who have resolved to deny the truth.... [after] all evidence of the truth has come unto them ? For, God does not guide such evildoing folk. [Quran 3:86]
-
To conclude, the term Kafir is a very serious matter, and unfortunately Muslim masses often have an unwarranted understanding of it and what it means from a Quran's perspective. ' Kufr' (disbelief) has little to do with disbelief in God. Even Satan was termed a 'disbeliever' ( wakana mina'l KAFIREEN 2:34) yet he clearly believed in and feared God.:
"Indeed I am clear of you, indeed I see what you do not see, INDEED I FEAR GOD ; and God is severe in requiting (evil)" [Quran 8:48]
"Like the example of Satan when he says to man: "Disbelieve", but when he disbelieves, he says: "Indeed, I am clear of you. INDEED I FEAR GOD , the Lord of the worlds" [Quran 59:16]
An individual may potentially follow a particular path with unrelenting zeal, rest assured that they claim to believe in God, yet when a particular truth is clearly manifested to them that makes evident to them the errors of their ways, they deny it. Such a denial in the face of evident truth is no different from the arrogance displayed by Satan who knowing full well the truth of the matter, denied it.[4]
One can never know when someone has entered a state of
kufr . Their faculties, the clarity of truth that has reached them, their circumstances will all be taken into account and given the immense complexities and variables, it can only be for God to pronounce judgment on the state of a soul and not for man. For some, belief and disbelief is a continuous cycle and it is only God that can make an appropriate judgment. [2]
That is ' kufr '.

Wow Wow Wow.

AbuUthaymeen:
LAUGHING. . WAHALA WA O.. JEWS AND CHRISTIAN NO BE WETIN YOU QUOTE FOR QURAN NI? MUSA BROUGHT ISLAM AND SO IS EESA but they change it entirely int0 an0ther thing . just like shia and sufi did to islam. . they are far fr0m islam yet they claim islam. . just like jew and christians . . . . .#eesa6 g

I tire for you, just dancing around like that ting boy.

Do you even understand my posts at all ?

AbuUthaymeen:
TELL ME ONE MUSLIM I CALL KAFIR O O . . ABI . .(EGBE means group of people that c0me together and affiliate themselves with islam)..like sufi, shia and others. .m.s.s are like sufi and shia.. no difference at all

Mss means Muslim Students Society.

AbuUthaymeen:
TELL ME ONE MUSLIM I CALL KAFIR O O . . ABI . .(EGBE means group of people that c0me together and affiliate themselves with islam)..like sufi, shia and others. .m.s.s are like sufi and shia.. no difference at all

You are still on this?
Abdelka....bir, you called him kafir even though he is your brother self.
Emp....ree you called him kafir.
Al.........ba q......ir u called him a kafir too.
I can remember one of your posts where you said Sufi ni Adam now, Kafir ni

AbuUthaymeen:
AND THE QURAN VERSES YOU QUOTED, ALLAH WAS TELLING RASUL HIST0RY ABOUT THE TIME OF JEWS, CHRISTIANS AND THEIR PROPHETS ..R

Do I need to tell you again that the message those prophets brought was that of Islam and there is nothing like Judaism or Christianity during the era of these prophets.





Christains , Jews are d general names those ppl who follow those paths are known as and Allah was referring to those present in d era of the prophet and d ones now.

You can qoute me anywhere.


Or are u denying the verse that Allah sent prophets to each and every nation?.
So u r saying Allah sent his prophets to preach Christianity and Judaism?
you are confused seriously.

AbuUthaymeen:
EXACTLY, so which article of faith do christian, jew and sufi, shia, mss and other egbe(sect) believe in? . . . . . .g

lol.
There is a mix up here, I was referring to d muslins you call kafirs here and not xtsins and co.






About d xtains and their cohorts ,I provided an evidence from d Quran where It was stated that their reward is with Allah.
I stated that Allah mentioned in d Quran that of those who believe and d xtains and Jews and d fire worshippers, those who do good amongst them, their reward lies with Allah their God.



Which one is Egbe?I don't know them.


The MSS and co, tell me d what Mss means to you , then I'd give u a befitting reply, although I didn't join Mss in school sha