₦airaland Forum

Prophet Paul Okikiiesu

A Lagos prophet, Paul Okikijesu was also not quite clear with his prediction, but said correctly that Buhari might be voted for on one condition – he should “surrender his heart to me”.

It is not known if the then APC candidate surrendered his heart to Prophet Okikiiesu

godric:
I have First Bank and UBA verve card, u mean I can use it?

godric:
pls which bank/card presently allow transaction on alliexprrss?

Jideams:
ETCUSD 2hrs before the close of 4hr candle

bobo65:
Yeah
The option has appeared bro

bobo65:
How far bro
Check if u gat d update for fingerprint fix

fibonacci2526:
I dey ooo, we dey miss you for Xiaomi thread.

fibonacci2526:
Oga Rookidmart, long time ooo.

bobo65:
PLS UPDATE UR DEVICE IMMEDIATELY YOU PURCHASE IT INCASE YOU ARE HAVING ISSUES WITH PLAYSTORE AND OTHER GOOGLE APPS

dungas30:
ITS NOW VERY CLEAR TANKX BUT AM I GOING TO STOP IT MANUALLY OR THERE IS AN APP THAT WILL AUTOMATICALLY STOP IT FOR ME.

chinnyonwu:
The postponed Segwit2x will now occur on block 501451 which should occur on 28/12/17. (track the current block height by visiting blockchain.info) .
It is expected to create a new coin out of Bitcoin called B2x, which will be distributed freely to any holder of bitcoin in the ratio 1:1.
This could be the reason for the hike in bitcoin prices, as traders are stocking up in hopes of receiving some "free coins".
Its possible to experience a shrinking of Altcoins shortly before the fork time as traders move funds over to bitcoin in a last minute rush for the free coins.
If this happens u can bet your ass i will be stocking up cheap Altcoins.
#IWC

Modified: another bitcoin fork "Bitcoin God" is expected in approximately 2hrs from now, at block heigh 501225.

ameri9ja:
Like I said: weird definition of "intrinsic".
Here is real-world definition of "intrinsic":
What something can be used for BY ITSELF.
$100 bill can be used to roll a joint.
We r not talking about value, but about INTRINSIC VALUE.

ameri9ja:
I told u already: gold's intrinsic value is that it can be used to make beaitiful, durable things. That's the intrinsic value of gold. Unless u have a weird definition of "intrinsic".

I never said fiat has much intrinsic value. But fiat may have quite substantial intrinsic value, depending on what it is made from. If it is hard currency made from gold for example, then it does have substantial intrinsic value. Under no circumstances can bitcoin have any intrinsic value.

ameri9ja:
USD is backed by the fact that it is about the only currency u can exchange for oil (which is really the true world currency ). Of course bitcoin can replace it in that regard, hence the title of the thread.

ameri9ja:
I have to admit u have a point. Funny that Greenspan was completely oblivious of the fact that, in describing bitcoin, he also just described USD exactly.
EXCEPT, there is a difference: USD is backed by US govt while bitcoin is backed by nothing.

ameri9ja:
I think this illustrates the meaning of "intrinsic" well:

Fiat money 
is a currency without intrinsic value, established as money by government regulation. It has an assigned value only because the government uses its power to enforce the value of a fiat currency. It was introduced as an alternative to commodity money and representative money. Commodity money is created from a good, often a precious metal such as gold or silver,
which has uses other than as a medium of exchange (such a good is called a commodity). Representative money is similar to fiat money, but it represents a claim on a commodity (which can be redeemed to a greater or lesser extent).

The first use of fiat money was recorded in China around 1000 AD. Since then, it has been used by various countries, usually concurrently with commodity currencies. Fiat money started to dominate in the 20th century. Since the decoupling of the US dollar to gold by Richard Nixon in 1971, a system of national fiat currencies has been used globally, with freely floating exchange rates between the national currencies.

ameri9ja:
Emphatically, YES.
Here is definition of "intrinsic value":
"The intrinsic value of something is said to be the value that that thing has “in itself,” or “for its own sake,” or “as such,” or “in its own right.” Extrinsic value is value that is not intrinsic."

In other words, by this definition, bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

But what someting can buy at a given point in time is not it's intrinsic value, which is what we are discussing. It's intrinsic value is what it is still good for if no one would accept it as payment. Hence the intrinsic value of a $100 note is about 10 cents, or that it can be used to role a joint or sniff coke or put on a wall as art.

Bitcoin on the other hand, if everyone stops accepting it as payment, would have no real-life use - it would be worth zero, which was it's original worth.

ameri9ja:
Of course "backed" is in quotes. Does that have to be spelt out? It simply means that it derives much of its power from Oil. I mean the Naira is also backed by "full faith and credit of the Nigerian government" but u can't buy oil with it.

ameri9ja:
I find this interesting:

HOW US REPLACED GOLD WITH OIL AS BACKING FOR THE DOLLAR

The French President de Gaulle and other leaders from other countries wanted back their gold in exchange for USD at $35 per ounce, as agreed earlier. This is where the US gold reserves got reduced and the US was scared, so that it wanted to get out of Bretton Woods agreement. In 1971, Nixon announced that the US would no longer give its gold in exchange for USD and the latter has value by itself. Basically, the US printed so much money that its gold couldn't back even a small portion of USD supply.

So, the US basically reneged on the agreed upon international gold standard. Under these conditions, the inflation would have gone so high that the US dollar would lose the biggest part of its value. But this can’t happen when smart guys manage the US. So, while the US dollar was not backed by gold and the US decided its dollar can be a floating currency (fiat money), the US decided to make some agreements with Saudi Arabia.
The US would give Saudis a lot of stuff (much of which is secret till today) and all the Arabs had to do was this:
The Saudis agreed to price all of their oil sales exclusively in USD.
The Saudis would be open to investing their surplus oil proceeds in US debt securities
Soon, more OPEC (oil producers) countries joined and they benefited from US protection in exchange for selling their oil exclusively for USD.

So the US prints paper and can buy as much oil as they want with that paper. Also, the US could print paper to buy all the stuff on earth. How this happened? Well, think about China - it’s a big big country that required huge investments in infrastructure. In short - it required “infinite” oil. So, China would go to the Arabs and would ask for oil - the Arabs would say they sell only for USD - the Chinese would go to the US and would ask for USD so that they could buy oil from Arabs - and finally, the US could print its money and buy everything China has to offer. The same is true about Japan and many other countries that don’t have oil. So, since Japan and China needed so much oil, they said to the US - let us sell all of our stuff to your country so that we could accumulate more paper (USD).
This is why, for example, the US is called a consumption economy (consumption accounts for 70% of the US GDP) while China is called a production economy (consumption accounts for only 34% of Chinese GDP)
JustCryptos

ameri9ja:
How dare u compare bitcoin to gold. Gold can be used to make shiny things of lasting beauty that never rusts or fades.

People would be willing to batter things for gold without ANYTHING else involved. Nobody would give u a dime for a bitcoin with nothing else involved, which was it's initial value. In other words gold by itself has real-life use while bitcoin has absolutely none.

ameri9ja:
Well, he was head of Fed Reserve. Don't u think he should know. Currency has to be tied to something, be it foreign reserve or whatever and they generally lose slight value over the years. Bitcoin is the opposite: the value is tied to nothing (except speculative supply and demand) and has been all over the place, but has generally gone up.

ameri9ja:
Centuries? Don't forget I got google:

Is U.S. currency still backed by gold? 

No, when the United States stopped selling gold to foreign official holders of dollars at the rate of $35 an ounce in 1971, it brought the gold exchange standard to an end. In 1973, the United States officially ended its adherence to the gold standard. Many other industrialized nations also switched from a system of fixed exchange rates to a system of floating rates. In August 1974, President Ford repealed the prohibition on the public's owning gold or engaging in gold transactions. Today, no country bans private ownership of gold.

ameri9ja:
Whatcha think of this by former chair of Fed Reserve? (Note bolded)

Greenspan compares bitcoin to Colonial America currency that eventually became worthless

Greenspan compares bitcoin, at more than $12,000 as of Wednesday, to the money issued by the Continental Congress in 1775 to finance the war effort.Even something that is ultimately worthless can create real goods and services in the near term, Greenspan says.

Liz Moyer

Published 10:32 AM ET Wed, 6 Dec 2017Updated 1:08 PM ET Wed, 6 Dec 2017

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan told CNBC on Wednesday that bitcoin reminds him of currency issued during America's Colonial past that ultimately proved worthless.

Greenspan compared the high-flying cryptocurrency to 1775 Continental currency that was worthless by 1782. In the in-between years, however, the money allowed patriots like George Washington to buy armaments and other supplies.

Continental money was so-called fiat currency. Declared legal tender by the Continental Congress, it derived its value from the amount of paper notes available and the demand for them rather than by the backing of a commodity such as gold or silver.

So will bitcoin ultimately be worthless? Not necessarily. It depends on the future supply. In the case of Continentals, the amount of currency just kept rising, in part because they were easily counterfeited.

Greenspan is not surprised that cryptocurrencies are popular.

“Human beings buy all sorts of things that aren’t worth anything, but they do it anyway,” he said.
"People gamble in casinos when the odds are against them. It has never stopped anybody."

“You cannot tell me that you can create, out of nothing, something which has a medium of exchange value
without bringing into the analysis the fact that sometimes people are a little bewildered,” he said.

“That does not mean it will not trade,” he added.

WATCH: Bitcoin's origin story remains shrouded in mystery. Here's why it matters.

ameri9ja:
Recently, Ethereum founder Vitalik Buterin spoke about Ethereum’s capacity to have transactional power to equal Visa in the next two years. Buterin believes the cryptocurrency and its blockchain will replace credit card networks and gaming servers.