₦airaland Forum

Wilgrea7:
Nowhere in the verse you quoted, did it state that God wanted to use man to punish satan for his arrogance. Not to mention, and I say this with no offense, but it sounds like a really stupid plan.

You think it would be a good idea to put the one dude who had the ability to make 1/3 of your angels revolt in the same place as your infant, weak creation? That's like putting your sworn enemy in the same place as your child, and expecting the child, who has neither the knowledge or the ability, to subdue your sworn enemy, who was able to take away 1/3 of your army.



How on earth does satan win in this situation? The person who wanted to destroy your creation succeeds in ruining the first 2, so you let him ruin billions more? That's like having a garden, where you just planted 2 new flowers, and having your enemy infect those flowers with a terrible parasite.

What sort of sensible gardener would let the infected flowers breed more and more infected flowers, going to the billions, while simultaneously saying he hates the infection? In what way is stopping the infection and planting new fresh flowers a loss? And somehow letting the infection multiply a billion folds is not??

What I stated are from my own personal reasonings. God never gave us His reasons for His actions. He's infinitely wise, you don't need to dabble into things you don't know.

However, the verse I quoted gives a clue. The bolded part makes us understand that God didn't want to leave the earth empty. Looking at all His activities throughout scripture, it appears He didn't want to create another set of human beings either. The reasons for that was not disclosed.

Now, did God put Satan side by side His weak humans? No, you're completely wrong. God didn't create man weak. He gave him a lot of authority and dominion. Then, covered man with His Glory. Not only that, He paid regular visit to man on a daily basis. Also, He placed man in an enclosed garden, secluded from the open earth where Satan roamed. How Satan gained access into the garden is unknown to us. But we know that Adam didn't fall, Eve did. Adam only joined Eve in eaten that fruit so that Eve would not be alone in her dilemma. It was out of love and concern for his wife.

The fault was largely Adam's. He should have secured his family better than he did.

God only told us the few things He wanted us to know. He's not accountable to man, so He can reserve the details He wishes to reserve (Deuteronomy 29:29). We as humans have imperfect knowledge, we cannot use that to judge the actions of an infinitely wise God.

Wilgrea7:
Happy Sunday beautiful people

So I'll get straight to the point. Sin.

It's the one thing God can't stand. The one thing that goes against his nature so much, that an iota of it warrants him to burn you for all eternity. You get the drift.

How did sin come into this world? Well, through Adam and Eve of course. They ate a fruit and it pissed the big sky daddy off.

They had corrupted his perfect design and whatnot. And what does God do?

Being an all knowing God, who is supposed to know the end from the beginning.. he knew they would sin and still made them... But let's not dwell on that.

God also knew, that the very thing he hated, which was sin, would be multiplied millions of folds if Adam and Eve bore children. So what did he do?

A. Make Eve barren so sin stops then and there
B. Allow the population of the world, and the sin he so hates, to increase literally billions of folds, so he can send himself to get shanked on a cross a couple thousand years later.

Well.. the answer is unfortunately B. The Christian God seems to have one of the worst damage control measures known to humanity.

It's the equivalent of seeing a small fire in your kitchen, having the ability to put it out right there, but sitting idly by and letting the entire house catch on fire, only to send a bucket of water when the house is about to collapse.

If God hates sin so much, why didn't he get rid of it during the time of Adam and Eve? Why let the thing you hate so much multiply exponentially.. even though you had the power to stop it??

If you had an infection, would you let it consume your entire body before treating it?

If such an action makes absolutely no sense in the real world, then why does it make sense in your religion??

Isaiah 45:18

For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.

God's original purpose was to use man to punish Satan for his arrogance. He created man out of clay, and put Satan under the dominion of that clay.

That's why Satan attacked the garden to steal the dominion away, and cause God to choose your option A. If God had chosen your option A, Satan has defeated God. Then, all the efforts He made in creating the world would go to waste.

God decided to let devil see that His purpose would still prevail in spite of man's failure. So, humanity continued with a later plan to restore man, and then create a new heaven and a new earth. At that time, Satan would be judged after being given enough time and opportunity to repent.

LordReed:
LoLz! You meet god in your bedroom or where exactly?

You can meet God anywhere. If you seek Him, you'll find Him.

LordReed:
LoLz! Well my appointment book has lots of free slots. Let's see if this fabled god can take a slot before I die.

If you die godless, it would be regrets.

I can say this only because I've met God, and I know Him. He exists. Don't let Satan deceive you.

LordReed:
LMFAO!

May you meet God before you die.

Dtruthspeaker:
So in the weddings you attended were you were not blocked by the bouncers, you married both the bride and the women in there and all of them became your wives?

You are above and beyond all reasonable and unreasonable doubt, Mad, both in Truth and in deed!

It shall never be well with your soul forever and ever. Amen!

Please this isn't Christlike.

I reverse it in Jesus name. May the Lord forgive you.

Colossians 4:6

"Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Sixfiguresmart:
Surah 18:60 And ˹remember˺ when Moses said to his young assistant, “I will never give up until I reach the junction of the two seas, even if I travel for ages.”

Where are these seas located?

surah 2:67 “Allah commands you to sacrifice a cow Surah 2:69 It should be a bright yellow cow

allah's choice of sacrificial cow is top-notch. A bright yellow cow. So, all those killing cows in Nigeria are wasting their time cos they are not bright yellow cows.

Islam is purely an Arabian distortion of Christianity. They decided to create an antichristian religioin to counter Israel who is perceived as their enemy. These Arabs have deceived a lot of people, and have sent countless people to hell.

May the Lord open the eyes and the hearts of those who read this.

LordReed:
Nah men you seriously need to take chill pills. You are reaching breaking point. LMFAO!

I pray your breaking point will lead you to God.

advocatejare:
Allah has promised to bind their souls and fill hellfire with them.


Allah was recorded boasting in the Quran about his mission:
“ If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, “I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together.”
-Surah 32:13

While the true God was giving His only Son to depopulate hell, and working hard to bring as much people into heaven as possible, the fake god is boasting that he'll fill hell with men. He rejoices to see hell populated.

Please, open a thread on this, let's hear what the Muslims have to say about this.

LordReed:
LoLz! It's really building, take that chill pill now! Bwahahahahahaha!

I don't need pills for your frustrations. I pray it leads you to God.

Sixfiguresmart:
surah 56:61 Had We so wished, nothing could have hindered Us from replacing you by others like yourselves, or transforming you into beings you know nothing about.

Did you notice that allah is from the polytheistic gods of Arabia by his insistence on being WE rather than I?

Interesting.

I've been following you from thread to thread. I hope you have more threads loading. How I wish advocatejare can also contribute.

jaephoenix:
Whoa. Theist logic. Quite a wonderful thing

Pastor RD: Some diseases are caused by demons
Me: Ok. List diseases caused by demons
Pastor RD: I don't know. I can't prove it but I know
Me: But if u can't prove it, how do you know they are real?
Pastor RD: I said i can't prove it. But I feel it everyday based on my experience
Me: You mean you meet people with demonic diseases regularly?
Pastor RD: My Holy book says they exist, so that means they exist
Me:

Atheist and their way of reasoning.

I challenge you to quote me in bold where I said "Some diseases are caused by demons." I said cases. Or, you do not understand what the term 'cases' mean? Cases are determined on individual bases. One person can have the same sickness as the other. For one, it's caused by gems, for the other, it's a demonic affliction. So, what are you listing here? This is simple logic. There's no list. Demons can cause any type of diseases but not all cases of sickness is demonic. I think I've made it simple enough.

Have you seen a spirit before? Can you analyse it In a laboratory? So, calling for proof for an invisible phenomenon is laughable.

Even in psychiatry, not all cases of mental disorder can be cured. Psychiatrist are faced with tons of incurable mental cases till today. Visit mental. Where insanity is caused by demons, no amount of medication can cure it. Some cases of insanity begin after a demonic dream where the person was attacked. You don't actually know anything.

If you want a proof of these things, go to where deliverance sessions are taking place. Go there as a researcher. Don't stay in the hospital and be dabbling into things that are higher than you.

jaephoenix:
Just so u know, psychiatric diseases have organic or somatic causes. That is why there are specific drugs targeted at different parts of the brain to handle them. They aren't demonic, Mr RoyalDiadems

I didn't say psychiatric diseases are demonic. There's no generalization as far as sicknesses are concerned. A lot of diseases are caused by microorganisms and health mismanagement. There are few demonic cases. Those demonic cases may escape your notice since you are not required to follow up the cases of your referred patients to the end. But, pastors handle such cases when they become the last resort where medicine fails. We thank God for medicine too, it has saved many lives.

jaephoenix:
Which is?

If you're sincerely searching for God, you'll find Him. You only need to make the right moves in the right direction.

jaephoenix:
1. Can you list the illnesses that are caused by the 'Spirit of infirmity'?
2. I went through that article, and to be honest, that was plain, premium, perfect bullshit. There was nothing scientific about that. Under the ICD 10 or even 11, no illness, whether somatic or mental, was listed as a mental disease with demon possession. To make matters worse, the author is not a psychiatrist. There was no scientific corroboration. You know the main thing between science and religion? Its universal corroboration. An experiment done in Lagos can be replicated anywhere, anytime, anytime. I found no other scientific proof or literature talking about demon possession in psychiatric illnesses. None. That Perrotta fellow had the ONLY article talking about it, and he had no proof. He is not a qualified psychiatrist even. Just to make sure I hadn't forgotten my psychiatric knowledge, I chatted up one of my psychiatrist colleague and the dude was laughing at the article. No psychiatric association or body knows anything about that and definitely no demon possession can be proven. Its all lies
Science flies in the face of religion

1. I didn't say some ailment types a demonic. So, no list is needed. What I said was that not all 'cases' are demonic. When demons inflict sickness, medical science has no solution to it. It's either it continues to defy medication or, as one sickness heals, another surfaces.

2. The article was for your reference. Since medicine is your field, your submission about the article would be taken as good authority. However, my position on demonic illness isn't based on any article anywhere. Rather, it's based on practical day to day experience.

You see, demons are real and are able to cause diseases. You can't prove that clinically because demons are invisible things. However, their influences cannot be denied.

The matter is like the issues of the mind. You can't see the mind. It's invisible but you can see its influence.

LordReed:
LoLz! You should go take a chill pill, your frustration with me is mounting.

You're talking about your frustrations since you could now see the error and apparent lack of reasonings in your position.

LordReed:
Ok sounds reasonable but the rub is this supposedly a god saying this message for future generations, how does he not know that the picture of a tree will be vastly different down the line? When I say tree do you picture a shrub?

Was He speaking to the future generations or the current generation He was addressing? So, how do you want His audience to understand if He speaks in the future? Your reasonings... You're very intelligent indeed.

RandomGuy48:
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smallseed.php

"Of course, the scientific classification schemes of modern botany were not yet invented -- classification was by appearance and function, not by biology. In that regard, the mustard plant of Palestine (Sinapis nigra) could grow to a height of several (2-6) feet and be considered a tree -- if not by the scheme of modern science (Is a bonsai a "tree"?), then assuredly by the descriptive classification scheme of the ancients."

Lordreed. Read this.

jaephoenix:
Good. So make me to witness 'the move of God in a place, an individual or a congregation'. I'm all yours, buddy

Go where God is working.

jaephoenix:
1. So any sick christian is faithless?
2. So the Christians that go hungry or broke 'don't pursue god'?
3. So in your books, Saul who was persecuting(maiming, imprisoning and killing christians) is morally better than me cos he believes in a god and I dont?

If you don't understand the import of what I said, then go back and read again.

jaephoenix:
Good. Same way the servant of God was supposed to challenge LordReed and call him back to God. Same way RoyalDiadems, the servant of the most high was supposed to challenge Jaephoenix and show him who is God. Simples

Yes!

Not by casting out the demon of Atheism from unwilling 'you'. But by allowing you to witness the move of God in a place, an individual or a congregation. That's what Elijah did.

jaephoenix:
He did worse. He was persecuting and harming Christians. Even me, I haven't harmed any Christians. I just heal them when they present to me(something your powerless god can't do)

I just laugh at your ignorance. God works through faith. The only reason godless people can boast is because majority of those who claim to serve God are hypocrites who are only obsessed with being religious. They don't pursue God, hence, they can't see the hand of God. Religion is bodily exercise that profits nobody.

Regarding Saul, he persecuted Christians because he thought they were anti-God. Paul was doing it in his zeal for God. He never denied God's existence.

jaephoenix:
1. Bros, before exposing your ignorance further, consult a physician. Lay these complaints to him. Before we operate on any appendicitis case, we commence antibiotics. You dont need to tell me whether its subacute, acute or chronic. From your story ,i can arrive at a diagnosis. Many times it resolves, sometimes we need to intervene surgically. About your dad not having a single abdominal complaint ever, now that is a lie from the pit of hell . There's no adult that haven't had a form of abdominal complaint ever in his life. And in this index case, he may have been having the abdominal pain but has been enduring, til its becomes unbearable. So u can't say it escalated in a day. I don't even know why i have to dabble into this argument with you. Get a physician and chat. And its not any appendix case you operate on. But i guess arguing with a Christian on science is a waste of time
2. Many diagnoses are elusive, not cos they are spiritual, but cos we lack the equipment and knowledge to get to its root. That's why there's a referral system. U feel its out of your depth, u send the patient to a higher knowledge, which may be a specialist or hospital. Some fly abroad. The reason many illnesses are termed 'spiritual' in third world countries is cos we lack the stuff to tackle it. When u get to advanced countries, those 'spiritual' cases become diagnosed and handled. We are peopled with seriously retarded fools in this neck of the woods, including medical personnels. Cases that has been termed spiritual back in those days, has been found to be natural. So many examples. In my language, there is what is called 'achaere' where someone foot gradually decays after he has a prick in the foot. They say its jazz. No sir! Its a simple diabetic foot ulcer. The retaard simply had diabetes but has refused to go to hospitals but would be bragging to his friends that he doesn't fall sick. Another example is 'mba mmuo' or 'mba agbara' where a seemingly healthy person suddenly falls and cannot talk or move, or lapse into a coma. They either say he got scared by a ghost. No sweetie. That's plain cerebrovascular accident or disease, aka stroke(by lay people). The person is obviously hypertensive but like the previous retard, doesn't go for checks and one of the tiny vessels in the brain got ruptured due to the high blood pressure. Another example is 'ogbanje' or 'abiku'(in yoruba) where women repeatedly have babies die early and they say the baby has pact with some demons etc etc etc blah blah blah. Bur its just sickle cell disease. That woman would continue having very sick babies that die if they are SS genotype. There are many examples which I'm constrained to mention. The point is they are all scientific and easily handled but til now, in 2022, people like RoyalDiadems and his ilk still believe they are spiritual even with their education. What a waste
3. Yes, your dad can suddenly have abdominal pain even when he hasn't had it before. There's always a first time for anything. And no, I'm not a rookie. This is my 18 year post grad and I have a burgeoning practice

I do not imply by my statement that he never had any abdominal pain in his life, what I meant was that he never had stomach ache related to appendicitis. However, I may agree with you that he might have been managing series of mild occurrences before the unbearable one surfaced. I'm not in position to dispute that, since I wasn't the victim.

Now, regarding demonically influenced diseases, you're wrong. Not all cases of sickness are demonic but there are some that are clearly demonic.

There's what is called a spirit of infirmity. It is used in the realm of witchcraft to cause diseases. Since you're given only to logic, how can you understand?

We know this because we have seen many healings after casting out the spirit of infirmity.

You may want to look into the link below. Though, the article relates to psychology, but if demons can affect mental health as clinically proven in the article, know for sure that bodily health is also vulnerable to demons.

https://www.peertechzpublications.com/articles/APT-5-135.php

I think you should start looking beyond your medical books. Science isn't perfect yet. Science is still developing. There are still a whole lot of incomprehensible phenomenon.

jaephoenix:
But God meet Saul…

Did Saul ever deny God's existence?

jaephoenix:
Bros, u can demonstrate the power of God in different ways. Even casting out demons is one of them. Healing etc. Casting out demons is a form of healing too. Spiritual healing

Yeah. We do that every day.

jaephoenix:
How many people had to repent before Jesus healed them? You guys just have ways of twisting this your Bible. What Jesus did was just touch and heal. No stories or caveats. Check these verses. Jesus healed all irrespective of tribe, religion(Jewish, atheist) amount of faith(in fact he said if your faith is as tiny as a mustard seed. Mustard seed is one of the tiniest seed).No caveat or terms and conditions. Just healing spree. And whats more, he said you guys would do greater works. Looks like una don dey dull.


Matthew 8:16
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

Matthew 12:15
But Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. Many followed Him, and He healed them all,

Matthew 14:14
When He went ashore, He saw a large crowd, and felt compassion for them and healed their sick.

Matthew 14:36
and they implored Him that they might just touch the fringe of His cloak; and as many as touched it were cured.

Matthew 15:30
And large crowds came to Him, bringing with them those who were lame, crippled, blind, mute, and many others, and they laid them down at His feet; and He healed them.
 
Matthew 21:14
And the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them.


Luke 4:40
While the sun was setting, all those who had any who were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and laying His hands on each one of them, He was healing them.

Luke 5:17
One day He was teaching; and there were some Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting there, who had come from every village of Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem; and the power of the Lord was present for Him to perform healing.

Luke 9:11
But the crowds were aware of this and followed Him; and welcoming them, He began speaking to them about the kingdom of God and curing those who had need of healing.

Matthew 9:35
Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Matthew 19:2
and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.

Mark 3:10
for He had healed many, with the result that all those who had afflictions pressed around Him in order to touch Him.

Mark 6:56
Wherever He entered villages, or cities, or countryside, they were laying the sick in the market places, and imploring Him that they might just touch the fringe of His cloak; and as many as touched it were being cured.

Luke 6:18
who had come to hear Him and to be healed of their diseases; and those who were troubled with unclean spirits were being cured.

Acts 10:38
You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Luke 5:15
But the news about Him was spreading even farther, and large crowds were gathering to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses.

Mark 6:5
And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.

Mark 7:37
They were utterly astonished, saying, “He has done all things well; He makes even the deaf to hear and the mute to speak.”

Matthew 8:7
Jesus *said to him, “I will come and heal him.”


Acts 9:34
Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; get up and make your bed.” Immediately he got up.

Matthew 4:24
The news about Him spread throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them.

Matthew 9:21
Verse Concepts
for she was saying to herself, “If I only touch His garment, I will get well.”

Mark 1:34
And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.

Luke 6:17
Jesus came down with them and stood on a level place; and there was a large crowd of His disciples, and a great throng of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon,

Luke 6:19
And all the people were trying to touch Him, for power was coming from Him and healing them all.

Luke 7:21
At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind.

John 5:11
But he answered them, “He who made me well was the one who said to me, ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’”

John 6:2
A large crowd followed Him, because they saw the signs which He was performing on those who were sick.


John 9:14
Now it was a Sabbath on the day when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes.


Please read your Bible more and quit porn

Matthew 13:58

And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Do you understand what happened here in the verse below?

Mathew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Jesus truly healed everyone, but do you have the details of every single healing? I mean the process He undertook to heal each individual.

LordReed:
LoLz. According to your bible Jesus cast out a demon from a man in Gadarene without anyone asking him to. It's so hilarious when I hear people make all these funny excuses. Almost as if you know your fables will not work so you take a step back. Whenever you and your god are ready I'll be here. LMAO!

Yeah, that's mercy speaking. The victims was out of his mind. He couldn't decide anything for himself. Jesus intervened. He was never challenged to prove a point.

The aftermath of the deliverance shows clearly that the victim was willing to be delivered in the first place. So, still on point.

jaephoenix:
Looks like I know your Bible more than you. You dud christians. Jesus and the disciples cast out many unwilling demons front their possessed beings. Try and be reading your Bible regularly

All demons are unwilling. There's never a willing demon. You atheists have a very distasteful way of understanding simple texts.

Did I ever speak of unwilling demons? I spoke only of the unwillingness of the individual possessed. The possessed fellow can't be helped if he or she never sees the need for it. You can't cast out a demon from someone who loves to retain his demons.

jaephoenix:
Quit dodging around. Can God heal everyone? Yes or no? Or r u gonna dodge this simple question too?

The question is already answered. Are you that slow to see? Read again. I've said it more than once. God can heal everyone, but for some people, terms and conditions apply. And before you twist my words, I already told you that some people have to repent of past wickedness for God to heal them. God is already angry with them, hence, they must first repent.

LordReed:
LoLz. I said when you and your god are ready I'll be here waiting.

It's the other way round. When your time is up, you'll meet God.

LordReed:
So we who were once Christian don't have urgent needs. You never seem to run out of excuses. LoLz.

Maybe you forgot whete the argument started from. It seems you've lost track of the discussion. The discussion was about atheists challenging someone to cast out the demon of Atheism to prove his God.

Is that consistent with what I said above? Let me break it down for you. If such a miracle would happen, this is the process it would follow:

1. The atheist is genuinely looking for God.

2. The Believer talks to God "Father, have mercy on his soul and cause him to know that you're the true God, and that you have brought him back to Yourself."

3. Then, he proceeds to cast out the demon. Meanwhile, demons such as that of Atheism need physical contact. A laying on of hands.

That's a clear case of meeting a need, not a case of casting out demons to prove a point. Elijah didn't cast out demons from the prophets of Baal, he simply demonstrated the power of God to apostate Israel. You can't cast out demons from a person who intends to retain his demons. God doesn't force Himself on people.

jaephoenix:
It looks like this Christianity is even making you a bit slow. Did I say appendicitis isn't operated on. I kept on telling you SUBACUTE APPENDICITIS. And it is managed by OS. These case u narrated as ACUTE APPENDICITIS.
So, according to your story, ur father got the demon possession via an orange? Interesting
Omo, Christians r really clowns

And what gave you the impression that it was subacute appendicitis? Were you the doctor who diagnosed him? Did I ever mention that the appendicitis was subacute? In my story, I narrated that my dad was almost dying. He even called me to his bedside giving me instructions concerning what to do after his death. You've been caught red handed, now you need to dodge. I can understand.

Are atheists not so ignorant? Several incurable afflictions that defy medical interventions are mostly satanic attacks. My dad had never had a single stomach complaint before the day in question. How could appendicitis come in one day, and reach it's climax in less than 24hts. Is that not a clear case of demonic attack? Yeah, you wouldn't understand. Ungodly people are spiritually blind.

The lady who delivered the oranges was a known witch. We were supposed to throw the oranges away but my dad took them alone for reasons best known to him. The witch's fiance was my dad's convert. Dad has been warning the brother to look well before marrying the lady. So, the anger of the lady was well expected.

Well, what do atheists know? People whose entire lives are governed by logic are completely shut out of spiritual mysteries. Yet, they're the ones who suffer the most of satanic blows.

Have you ever come against cases that defy diagnoses, or that defy medication? Only prayers can settle such matters because they're demonic attacks. If you've never come against such cases, then you're a young inexperienced doctor, and your ignorance can be excused.