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Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 9:15am On Sep 15

sonmvayina:
Well, you have not really studied anything. If you have, the same message resonates across boards. It is the the same spiritual messages and truth just the characters and storylines are different., at the end of the day. They all teach the same message and that is we are all conscious (spiritual beings having a human experience)

Gentiles simply means people from another district. Hahahaha, you keep looking at the Bible with your physical eyes., a wise man once said 'The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life) Like i said. God is the universal (divine) consciousness. Not a man up in the sky. He is the ALL in all..The stories are allegories. Never to be interpreted literally. For example, God told the Israelites to wipe out the Armalikites, the Armalikites represent "Doubt" it simply means eliminate all doubt within yourself. There was a time, belief in God was about believe in oneself. This comes when all doubt has been eliminated.
Every one received the same messages....including Africans. It's just slavery that slowed our progress. Do you know God sent the Israelites to Babylon to learn about him. The Babylon they later despised. It was after the exile, their scribes led by Ezra had to come up with the Torah to take home and teach the people....

God is consciousness (The ALL) you should have figured this out if you actually read the kybalion.

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You're changing the argument after the fact. You first said all religions carry the same spiritual message, but when I pointed out that the Bible itself distinguishes between Israelites, Gentiles, unbelievers, idolaters and enemies, you simply reinterpret those passages as allegories.

Gentile means a non Israelite, not “people from another district.” But that actually strengthens my point: the Bible contains a specific historical distinction between Israel and other peoples.

And if Amalek represents “doubt,” where does the biblical text itself say that? What about the Canaanites, Jebusites, Hivites, Hittites and Perizzites? Do they also represent different forms of doubt? What about the passages describing the destruction of entire nations, including men, women and children? Are those also merely metaphors for something happening within the individual?

Obviously, you are importing a metaphysical interpretation into narratives that are presented as historical events and then presenting your interpretation as though it were the original meaning of the text.

The same problem applies to your claim that all religions teach the same thing. If you reinterpret every religion through the lens of universal consciousness, then naturally they will all appear to be saying the same thing. But that's not evidence that they actually are.

And The Kybalion doesn't establish that God is universal consciousness either. It establishes what The Kybalion teaches.

These religions ain't saying the same thing. You are actually extracting the parts that fit your philosophy and calling that the universal message!

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 4:30pm On Sep 14

MaxInDHouse:
This is the lie that has been used to blindfold people who aren't intelligent.
How come such reports are only from Western nations and none is reported in Africa?
Guy that is a lie perpetrated by religious leaders who wants to stop people like you from using your senses to see that there is one true religion. Matthew 5:11-12🙂
Western nations say JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES children aren't safe with their own parents while the president of Russia despite banning the same organization gave us the best family that has trained their children well in his own country.
Ọmọ use your senses and stop listening to liars on social media.

You haven't answered the point. I gave you documented cases and an official Royal Commission that examined your organization's own records. Your response is simply, “Why aren't there similar reports in Africa?” That doesn't disprove the reports that exist.

And regarding the Russian president, yes, Putin did recognize a Jehovah's Witness family in 2017 by awarding them the Order of Parental Glory for raising eight children. But that is evidence concerning a particular family, not proof that every JW member obeys the law. Sensibly, one family receiving a state award cannot vouch for millions of people.

P.S: The Russian president didn't single out Jehovah's Witnesses as uniquely exemplary. The Order of Parental Glory was awarded to multiple large families from different regions. The JW were one recipient family among many. While the rest who got the awards ain't JWs. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 4:17pm On Sep 14

martinskelly:
Hi, I would like to ask what is your intent or where are you driving this conversation at?

I speak for myself and most of the times I don't generalise things okay.

I don't talk so much about what other people think or feel, I solemnly focus on me.

Your question again might be "Had it been I was born into other religion that don't worship the Christian God wouldn't I feel that that same God would be the supreme right?" Okay, let's look at it this way; If you can tell me how the world and everything therein came into existence without mentioning science and other religion concept and with conviction (don't focus the Christian version) then you are on the right track of illumination.

Let's just leave this things you guys always says that the Christian God is wicked that how can someone reverence a God that kills and you say He His LOVE! There is a beginning to a thing and an end to that same thing, kindly focus on the process as to why a thing happened rather than judging from an emotional and Inaccurate angles of why "this and that".

The things we don't know are much more greater than the things we think we actually thought we know.

Science told you man came from ape, science said the conception of a baby starts from the " sperm of a man to fertilising the egg of a woman" etc.. if you can definitely point out to the things you mostly believe it will definitely be science right but are you going to tell me that nothing existed before science or the things that science discovered about humans were not in existence or how it were?

Science discovered medicine, yea but have you thought it this way that everything were/was gotten from the EARTH! Who planted it? (Don't get me wrong here).

One thing I have come to realise in my years of knowing (personal encounter) the true God is that He is JUST in everything He does and please don't always see things from your own lenses or perspectives, don't always believe everything should be logical when it comes to the manifestation of a supernatural being you might loose it entirely.

I don't preach, I tell Encounters.

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I understand that you speak from personal encounters, and I don't dispute that you had those experiences. My question is how you know your interpretation of those experiences is correct.

People from other religions also report powerful personal encounters with their Gods. How do we determine which encounter actually reveals the truth?

And asking how the universe began doesn't establish the Christian God. “I don't know how it began” doesn't logically become “therefore, my God did it.”

Also, science doesn't say humans simply “came from apes.” It says humans and modern apes share a common ancestor.

Most importantly, saying “God is supernatural, so you shouldn't expect everything to be logical” is a convenient escape from questioning the belief.

I'm not asking you to abandon your encounters. I'm asking a simpler question:

How do you distinguish an encounter with God from an experience that you interpreted as God?

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You may ignore the question...

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 9:38am On Sep 14

MaxInDHouse:
That's where faith is God play its role, in God's organization all of us obey the law without the use of PHYSICAL WEAPONS because we UNDERSTAND why it's necessary to do so.
Where law enforcement agents are in place you don't know who is living by the law or those abiding due to fear of weapons!🙂

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But your claim is too absolute. You said that in “God’s organization” everyone obeys the law because they understand it.

But Jehovah’s Witnesses have members who have been arrested and convicted of serious crimes, including child sexual abuse. The Australian Royal Commission also examined the organization’s own records involving allegations against 1,006 members and concluded that children were not adequately protected.

Understanding religious rules clearly does not guarantee that every member obeys them.

And that brings us back to the point: how does the absence of armed law enforcement prove that your organization is God’s organization?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 9:18am On Sep 14

martinskelly:
Yeah, it doesn't always mean that way.

Like I said sometime ago, men will always depend on their freewill to perpetrate the evil agenda of their master the devil.

One thing I know is this, the God I know will never force you against your on will, He didn't create humans as robots just to control us; all you just have to do is surrender and trust Him because He never fails (I am not a religious kind of person but I believe in the coming together of brethren to worship)

Every others religion started from somewhere, the most mysterious takeout here is that there was an initial process or orderliness from the beginning of time to this days but you know the devil is roaming about like a wounded lion seeking whom to devour.

The world didn't just blow out just from anything, there was and still there is a first creator in Him came lesser gods you see some other nations, tribes, ethnicity, traditions and religions reverence.

If the history is not righteously told or inspired as it is or was, then humans would always feel theirs (RELIGION) is the FIRST.

I hope I said something here.

"The God I know.” My question is simple: how did you come to know this God? Did God personally reveal Himself to you, or did you learn about Him through the Bible, your culture, your church or other people?

If it is through the Bible, then we have to deal with the Bible as a whole, not just the passages that give us the version of God we prefer.

The Old Testament contains accounts where God authorizes the destruction of entire populations, including women and children. Yet you describe the God you know as one who would never force people against their will. How do you reconcile those two pictures?

In Job, Satan appears before God and acts with God's permission.
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In the New Testament, the Spirit leads Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.

Obviously, the relationship between God and Satan in these texts is more complicated than simply “God versus Satan.”

You say we should “surrender and trust Him.” But how do you know that what you're surrendering to is actually God? Christians pray to the same God and come away with completely contradictory doctrines. How do you distinguish God's guidance from your own thoughts, emotions, upbringing or interpretation?

And saying “God heard my prayer” doesn't demonstrate that God actually responded. How do you independently distinguish divine communication from your own interpretation of events?

Every religion came from somewhere, including Christianity. So perhaps the more important question isn't whether you sincerely believe in God, but whether you have established that the God you inherited is actually God, rather than a cultural interpretation of cultural deity.

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 7:00pm On Sep 13

Solofresh2:
You for no believe am na.
Maybe you don't experience what your so called biology, physical and computer were talking about about.Maybe you don't have evidence of them

Show me the evidence of garden of Eden in the Bible and show me the evidence of a snake speaking to Eve 😂

I tire o

Adult they believe say fairy tale na true.

Snake when dey chop mice, swallow eggs was cursed to eat dust yet I never see am chop dust for real life or for Nat Geo Wild 😜

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Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 6:30pm On Sep 13

MaxInDHouse:
Of course it does because the people authorized to carry it about are called:
"Law enforcement agents"
If everyone UNDERSTANDS the laws and finds it useful then why do you need anyone to carry weapons in the name of ENFORCING the same laws you claimed is UNDERSTOOD?🙂

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Let's do it this way, perhaps you might be forced to learn something.

Understanding a law does not mean every person will obey it, which is why societies have law enforcement.

Like in the book of Romans 13:4: “For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain.”

The Bible acknowledges governing authorities who “bear the sword” in enforcing law.

And then there is Jesus:

Luke 22:36: “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”

How can you argue that the mere presence of weapons proves a society has no peace, while ignoring biblical passages that distinguish between misusing the sword and legitimate authority bearing it. cheesy

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:25pm On Sep 13

sonmvayina:
Maybe God is actually saying the same thing. But you missed the memo.

Look at it this way. It's like English in WAEC. The question says write an essay of not more than 600 words on why pleasure without responsibility should be discouraged. The Jews writes the story of onan and his brother's wife., the babylonians write about Gilgamesh and Inanna the yorubas write about ogun and obantala, (or something like that) the Indians write theirs too using Indian characters.....so end of the day, when they read it or teach it to their people. They tell them that the message is "pleasure without responsibility should be discouraged....

Christianity too.....but the followers has decided to worship the characters in the stories.

God wasn't saying the same thing. These cultural beliefs and religions are not simply telling different stories with the same message.

The Bible itself calls some people Gentiles, unbelievers, idolaters, and enemies of God. The Old Testament even describes Israelites fighting and killing other nations in the name of their God and sometimes commanded by God.

How then can you say everyone was simply receiving the same message from the same God? grin

By the way, @martinskelly, feeling that there is a God doesn't prove that everyone is experiencing the same God.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:00pm On Sep 13

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted in red is what i'm correcting!

Instead say people created a seemingly peaceful and cooperative societies through the use of WEAPONS!🙂

As long as they carry weapons to threaten themselves in order to abide by the rules then the so called "peace" is still as a result of INTIMIDATION.

It simply means even though you are not contented with the rules you must be compelled through the use of WEAPONS.

Do you understand what i'm saying now?🙂

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You're still equating the existence of weapons with the source of peace, and those are not the same thing. angry

The U.S. has millions of firearms and still has significant violence, while countries such as Finland and Switzerland have relatively high civilian firearm ownership but much lower firearm homicide rates. The mere presence of guns does not explain whether a society is peaceful.

And why are we limiting this discussion to weapons? People can kill with poison, knives, machetes and countless other implements. The existence of a weapon does not automatically mean people are being intimidated into peaceful behaviour.

People obey laws for many reasons: social norms, values, institutions, consequences and personal restraint.

Saying that peace exists because weapons intimidate people, that is an assertion you have fail to demonstrate.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 7:03am On Sep 13

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know how low atheists can think!🥱

So when two people disagree and you hold a weapon 🔪 to scare them that translates to peace from your own point of view shey?

I asked you:

Do this societies have people who always carry weapons among them?
For what purpose are they using weapons?

Ọmọ as long as they have weapon carriers among them there is no peace for real.

WHY?

Because the criminals among them are afraid of the weapons so at the slightest chance of a disorder things will turn upside down since it's the weapons that's holding criminals back not to harm people.

That is why God's word says:

For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; Romans 13:3

So we aren't scared of weapons rather we obey the authorities because our God said we should obey them as long as their policies doesn't conflict with God's will but the criminals in your society are scared of weapons therefore when they are able to build a stronger weapon than their rulers things will change!🙂

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Always arguing against something I never said.

My point is that Japan, Sweden, Norway and Denmark demonstrate that high levels of social order, safety, cooperation and human wellbeing do not require Christianity or your religious organization as their source.

I'm not claiming these societies have no Christians, police or weapons. I'm saying their stability does not depend on everyone belonging to Christianity or following your organization.

You changed that into:

“If a society has armed authorities, there is no peace.” grin

That's a different argument. A society can have police and laws while remaining peaceful and highly functional e.g. Denmark.

If a people can create peaceful and cooperative societies through reasoning, laws, institutions and shared civic values, why must they invoke God or a particular religious organization to explain those achievements?

1 Like

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 6:42am On Sep 13

Dtruthspeaker:
The burden of proof is on you to prove by valid evidence that the entire humanity family tree comes from elsewhere for that is you making a claim.

And of course it is not out of place for parents to have a different blood group from their children.

So, prove your claim meanwhile this is not topic but here you are making an issue out of nothing. Anyway prove your claim let us see if you have any valid proof

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You're shifting the burden of proof.

I haven't claimed that humanity came from any other pair. You are claiming that all humanity biologically descended from Adam and Eve, so the burden is on you to establish that claim.

Blood groups, Rh factors, genotypes, and broader genetic variation are measurable biological facts.

“Humans have ancestors” is not the same as “therefore those ancestors were Adam and Eve.”

The question is: what independent biological evidence establishes Adam and Eve as the biological ancestors of all humanity?

If you don't know have any, keep quiet and move along.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 7:35pm On Sep 12

MaxInDHouse:
Since you don't believe in God or the Bible let's start from that point.
So answer the question:
If all humans agree not to waste our resources on the production of weapons but on food and other necessities of life how do you think this world will be? 🙂

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Your question assumes humans need your religious interpretation to recognize that?

Look at societies such as Japan, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Christianity is not what explains their social order, yet they have built highly peaceful and functional societies through human institutions, cooperation and shared civic values.

Even using the Bible, which interpretation should humans follow? You cite Isaiah 2:4 about peace, but the same Bible says “do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 6:14), while Jesus says he came to bring division (Matthew 10:34-36). Luke 14:26 even speaks of hating one's family in comparison with commitment to him.

That is my point: the Bible does not interpret itself. Humans do.

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 7:22pm On Sep 12

Dtruthspeaker:
As long as no human fell from the sky you can't separate the Adam and Eve family tree of which that has been observed and measured and stands irrefutable.

Secondly, you have admitted that corruption, wars, exploitation are all fruits bad people and none of them fell from the sky, so if you want to pretend that all these just started maybe in 2010, that is your own delu to eat.

The fruit already proves the tree and your arguing it has been senseless

Nobody is arguing that humans fell from the sky, so that point is irrelevant.

A family tree being observable and measurable does not prove that the entire human family tree begins with Adam and Eve.

And observing corruption, war, exploitation, and other forms of human wrongdoing proves that humans can produce harmful outcomes. It does not prove that Adam and Eve were the biological source of those traits.

It is funny, how you are treating a theological belief as an established fact and then using the consequences you observe in the world to validate the belief.

What evidence shows that the human genetic population we observe today originated from Adam and Eve?

_{Why can't you simply receive blood from anyone? Blood groups are biological facts, not theological beliefs. The same applies to inherited genotypes. We can test these differences in a laboratory and observe them in real human populations...}

Calling the question “senseless” doesn't answer it. It just avoids it.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:07pm On Sep 12

MaxInDHouse:
One simple question:

If all humans agree not to waste our resources on the production of weapons but food and other necessities of life how do you think this world will be?

Please answer that question and see what you're arguing aimlessly against!🙂

That isn't the question I asked.

You keep proving that nonviolence is desirable, then assuming that it proves your organization is God's organization.

Where does the Bible establish that nonviolence, preaching, unity and love are an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?

Your argument is:

“My organization fits the qualities, therefore God chose it.”

But I am asking you to prove the missing step:

“God established these qualities as the exclusive test.”

You haven't proved that. You keep changing the question instead.

That's the deflection.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 12:37pm On Sep 12

MaxInDHouse:
Of course that's the ultimate truth!🙂
In the world today what mankind need for all of us to live happily on the planet is food, clothing and shelter these three costs almost nothing if we are united but due to politics caused by Satan 99% of the world's population spends the resources on destructive devices storing it for God knows what. So if a religion could stand out to erase the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in the minds of all their members globally replacing it with love for neighbors ọmọ that's the one and only true religion! James 1:27

Being high doesn't translate to unattainable that's what you failed to understand it simply means to climb up to the peak requires special training which you must humbly welcome not just arguing hopelessly claiming there is nothing as such.
So when humans from different nations come to a realization that there is a problem and figured it out but you keep on arguing aimlessly just to prove stubborn it can't change the truth that you and i know.
Our problem is the diversion of resources into the making of destructive devices and thinking of how to disarm other people just to feel on the top but an organization has eradicated that in the minds of all their members throughout the world.

If you feel that's just a coincidence ọmọ i will tell you that you're simply deceiving yourself!🥱

MaxInDHouse, the circular reasoning in your argument is becoming very clear.

Your reasoning is essentially:

1. You interpret certain Bible verses as describing the identifying marks of God's true organization.

2. You find that your organization has those characteristics.

3. You then use the fact that your organization has those characteristics as proof that your interpretation of those verses was correct.

4. You then use that “correct” interpretation to prove that your organization is God's organization.

That is a circle.

The problem is that your interpretation is being used to validate your organization, while your organization is then being used to validate your interpretation.

I am asking you to break that circle.

Where does the Bible independently establish that your particular combination of peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity and nonviolence is an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?

You haven't established that. You have simply shown that your organization fits the interpretation you have constructed.

And when I question how you know your interpretation is correct, you point back to the same verses and your organization's “fruits.”

That isn't independent evidence. It is self-validation.

Before telling me that I am “deceiving myself,” establish the missing premise.

Don't use your conclusion to prove your premise, then use the premise to prove your conclusion.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 12:31pm On Sep 12

MaxInDHouse:
Of course that's the ultimate truth!🙂
In the world today what mankind need for all of us to live happily on the planet is food, clothing and shelter these three costs almost nothing if we are united but due to politics caused by Satan 99% of the world's population spends the resources on destructive devices storing it for God knows what. So if a religion could stand out to erase the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in the minds of all their members globally replacing it with love for neighbors ọmọ that's the one and only true religion! James 1:27

Being high doesn't translate to unattainable that's what you failed to understand it simply means to climb up to the peak requires special training which you must humbly welcome not just arguing hopelessly claiming there is nothing as such.
So when humans from different nations come to a realization that there is a problem and figured it out but you keep on arguing aimlessly just to prove stubborn it can't change the truth that you and i know.
Our problem is the diversion of resources into the making of destructive devices and thinking of how to disarm other people just to feel on the top but an organization has eradicated that in the minds of all their members throughout the world.

If you feel that's just a coincidence ọmọ i will tell you that you're simply deceiving yourself!🥱

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 12:30pm On Sep 12

Dtruthspeaker:
Their unacceptance of it does not change the fact that 2 people can populate the world as shown by our family tree. And the idea of family tree means that adam and wife cannot be dispensed with as no human fell from the sky.

And if you truly understand that thorns (bad seeds) cannot give a harvest of apples, then your query makes no sense, especially as you agree that having bad leaders like Tinubu, Trump etc breeds badness.

And we have already settled that "you can inherit the consequences of previous generations’ decisions without being morally guilty of them, so you have no reasonable query for the adam and eve issue

We need to separate THEOLOGICAL BELIEF from BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE.

We can observe inherited genetic differences among humans, including blood groups and population variation. These are measurable facts, not theological interpretations.

When you say, “two people can populate the world,” you are answering a different question. I am not asking whether two people can eventually have descendants who populate the world.

Your “bad seeds” analogy also does not explain the actual causal mechanism.

We can identify how policies, corruption, wars, exploitation, and economic conditions produce harmful consequences. What, then, is the mechanism by which Adam and Eve’s disobedience produces poverty, disease, war, inequality, and corruption thousands of years later?

Can descendants inherit biological and social consequences from previous generations? Yes.

Does that prove humanity descended biologically from Adam and Eve? No.

Does it prove I inherit Adam’s moral guilt? No.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 6:09am On Sep 11

MaxInDHouse:
Never!
I am telling you today that there is none and there will never be no other like my group regarding all what i told you.
Do you think i was born into the true religion?

Ọmọ i searched thoroughly and diligently perhaps i can find another but there is none because the standard is too high for whoever isn't ready for pureness! Psalms 24:3-4🙂

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You keep demonstrating my point. Saying “I searched for the truth and found it” means little unless you can explain how you recognized it as truth. Every religious group can claim the same thing. A Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, or another sect can search sincerely and reach a different conclusion. Your conviction proves that you believe you found the truth, not that you actually did.

You say the standard is too high, but Psalm 24:3–4 neither says that it's your sect nor that it's only Christians who can have “clean hands and a pure heart.” It describes moral and personal qualities, not membership in a religion. A person can be honest, compassionate, truthful, and morally upright without being a Christian or belonging to your organization.

In fact, the Bible itself warns against people judging themselves righteous. The Pharisee in Luke 18:9–14 thought he was on the right path, yet Jesus rejected his self assessment.

God's standard is too high, but it is the believers who become certain of their own righteousness deem their judgment of themselves for God's judgment of them. They imagine God, then play God by attributing their own thoughts, judgments, and actions to Him.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 6:57pm On Sep 10

MaxInDHouse:
NO!🙂
Think more of action rather than mere words.
Jesus taught his disciples to go and meet people in their homes confident that no religion has that strong convincing message other than his disciples.
For instance if you are asked to travel from one country to another to market a product that's not the best surely you won't have the liver to do so but when you are certain of what you have ọmọ you won't even think twice before moving with your product.
Of all the religions in the world today which one do you know that's actively going to meet people in their homes?
It's easy to stand in the corners of the street and start shouting at passersby or on radio or TV saying whatever you like but standing one on one facing your audience requires a lot because you must have what no one else have before you can do that.
So when Jesus commissioned Christianity he made it mandatory that his disciples are not to go disturbing people with noise because then you'll have to speak into the air with no one asking you any question but when you knock on people's door surely you must be fully prepared for questions.
Today you have politicians claiming Christians because their religion doesn't make it a compulsion to go and knock on people's doors so they will stay on social media or worship center, say whatever comes to their mouth and off they go.
But can they truly be Christians if they must speak with people from house to house?

Ọmọ if someone else is deceiving you please don't deceive yourself, the one and only true religion doesn't give a room for hypocritical form of worship!🙂

You have shifted the argument from “How do you know your group is the one true group?” to “What does your group do that demonstrates it?”

Going door to door, preaching, being committed, and being willing to answer questions may demonstrate conviction and sincerity. They do not demonstrate that the doctrine being preached is true. Other religious groups can demonstrate the same commitment to their own beliefs.

Even if your group were the only religious group going from house to house, that would only prove that your group goes from house to house. It would not prove that God chose your group.

Action can demonstrate conviction; it cannot, by itself, demonstrate truth. What makes your interpretation actually true, rather than simply something your group is exceptionally confident and committed to?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:57pm On Sep 10

Man created God, created books to speak on his behalf, and then selected verses from those books to justify man's actions.

People call the Bible the Word of God, but its history is human. It was written across centuries, in different cultures and languages, preserved by communities, plagiarised, translated by humans, and interpreted by institutions.

Its stories also did not emerge in isolation. The flood story of Noah bears striking similarities to older Mesopotamian flood traditions such as Gilgamesh and Atrahasis. Later biblical writers also erroneously reinterpreted earlier texts. Isaiah's prophecy concerning a child, for example, was written within a specific historical situation but was later presented by Matthew as referring to Jesus.

Then we have the Bible's internal inconsistencies. The Gospel accounts differ in their presentation of Jesus' resurrection, while Paul's accounts of his Damascus experience contain differing details. These differences require humans to reconcile, prioritize, and interpret the accounts.

Even the Bible itself required human selection. There was no divine table of contents handed to the early church. Religious communities debated which writings were authoritative and eventually established the canon.

Christianity developed through the same human process: debates, councils, competing doctrines, reinterpretations, and revisions.

So what are we actually looking at?

A book God gave humanity, or a collection of human writings through which humanity created...

If God never steps in to interpret his own supposed Word, the simplest explanation is that man created God, and then created books to speak for him.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:38pm On Sep 10

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:

“Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you" Matthew 7:7

This means it's only individuals who continue with asking sincerely that can find answers that is why only his closest confidants got to understanding of his parables as they always return to him asking for the meaning. Matthew 13:36 compare to Proverbs 2:3-5

That is what Jesus taught through his actions as he continue being peaceable, loving, uniting his listeners and commanding them never to hate or fight anyone be it friend or foe.
God Himself said we should listen to Jesus! Matthew 17:5

Only those blinded by Satan keeps fighting against themselves {Revelation 6:3-4} due to racism and politics! 2Corinthians 4:4

Because they are fully obedient to those taking the lead in their gathering just as Jesus' disciples did in the first century! Hebrews 13:7, 17

God wanted to use the Israelites as the light for all other nations {Exodus 19:5} but they failed so He established another covenant through Jesus this time the laws are not like the first ones written in tablets or scrolls rather they written in the hearts of Jesus' disciples {Jeremiah 31:31-33} as they closely learn through his words, thoughts and actions that is why Jesus himself never wrote any book unlike Moses who was asked to pen down the laws!

Because i belong to the one and only group that's fulfilling what Isaiah 2:2-4 says!🙂

Reading your responses, what stands out is the method rather than the number of verses you cite. You appear to begin with a conclusion and then move from verse to verse across different books to construct support for it. But finding passages that can be connected to a conclusion is not the same as demonstrating that the conclusion is correct.

You say your group is the one fulfilling what the Bible says. But isn't that precisely what virtually every religious group believes about itself? Christians, Christian denominations, Islamic sects, and countless other religious movements all believe, from within their own frameworks, that they are following what God requires. Yet they disagree with one another.

If God were directly supplying these interpretations, why would sincere believers repeatedly arrive at contradictory interpretations? What we can actually observe is human beings reading the same or related texts, interpreting them differently, and then forming communities around those interpretations.

The more honest conclusion is that we are hearing human interpretations of the Bible, not God's voice interpreting it for us.

Are you seeking an answer, or confirming the assumption you already have?

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 8:55am On Sep 10

Dtruthspeaker:
Correct.

However, the reason why Adam and Eve is mentioned is because that was the beginning where bad seeds were planted and the world started harvesting bad fruits and replanting them

Human genetics and population history challenge the idea that humanity descended biologically from only two individuals. We can explain human ancestry, migration, and variation without invoking Adam and Eve.

Even granting the story, saying they planted the first “bad seeds” does not show they are necessary to explain today’s bad fruits.

So my question remains: what does the Adam and Eve story explain that observable causes cannot?

I accepted it as a child as an account of humanity’s first bad choices. But as an adult, I see insufficient reason to treat it as literal biological history.

More fundamentally, inheriting consequences is not the same as inheriting guilt. I can suffer because of my ancestors’ actions without being responsible for them. Likewise, I can inherit past consequences while remaining responsible for my own choices.

Even if Adam and Eve began humanity’s bad choices, you must still explain why their actions make me morally responsible for something I did not do.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 8:44am On Sep 10

MaxInDHouse:
God said the right attitude is reading, meditating and humbly asking questions for understanding. Psalms 1:1; Proverbs 2:1-5

There will be a gathering of humble people seeking righteousness. Zephaniah 2:2-3

That is what Jesus (God's only begotten Son) taught his disciples and according to God's word whoever is not his follower can't have everything life {John 3:16} that is why they must be recognized as a group! John 13:34-35

God said: during the end time Satan will blindfold people, they will continue seeing other people as enemies so instead of loving people they will all use weapons to kill their neighbors! Revelation 6:3-4

You said the correct attitude is reading, meditating, and humbly asking questions. But how does the reader know his interpretation is correct rather than merely his own?

You also have not shown where Scripture makes peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity, and nonviolence an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization. Teaching these qualities does not mean they uniquely identify one organization.

Your appeal to Revelation 6:3-4 and Satan “blindfolding” people is another interpretation, not proof. I asked you to establish a premise, but you quoted another verse and asserted a conclusion.

You also said humble people will gather, but did not explain how we know they are genuinely humble or correct.

You left my question about Isaiah 2:3 unanswered: What does “the Law” mean in its original context, and why expand Isaiah’s reference into different books that did not exist, yet?

This illustrates a common method: starting with a conclusion, then collecting verses from different books to support it.

What guarantees that the person say, MaxInDHouse, answering those questions has correctly understood the verses rather than simply imposing his own interpretation?

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 9:38pm On Sep 09

Dtruthspeaker:
You raised the issue of inheriting Adam's offence hence the need to point out that you are not charged with his offence.

And i addressed the issue in pointing out that why are people crying that Buhari and Tinubu have caused poorverty, death both in hospitals from fake drugs and low pay to sickness arising from lack of jobs to working excessive hours?

If you were in America now, is it people on the streets who have an issue with iran or king Trump who is nowhere near the warzone but has sent young men and women to be murdered while he eats, drinks, parties and golf's in exotic hotels?

God is not making you suffer, it is your parents and grandparents who have planted a world of suffering and unfortunately, it is you guys who eat the harvest of them all

Then I think we are closer than you realise.

I agree that we can inherit the consequences of previous generations’ decisions without being morally guilty of them. But that is precisely my point: you have moved from Adam and Eve to identifiable human actions and their consequences.

If God is not the direct cause, and previous generations created the conditions we inherited, we can investigate them through history, politics, economics, psychology, science, and human behaviour without invoking Adam and Eve.

Your examples of Buhari, Tinubu, and Trump support my argument. We can identify the decisions, institutions, policies, wars, corruption, and exploitation behind their consequences.

That's why I earlier said:
"We inherited a world we did not create, but the world we leave behind is our responsibility."

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 8:42pm On Sep 09

Dtruthspeaker:
Is there anyone charging you for eating the fruit? No.

What are you charged for? Is it not disobedience, stealing, lying, dishonour of your body, paganism, malice, murder etc ust like your parents have done?

Did you not read that corsed is anyone who does any ONE of these things? So how shall it be when people in your land including you are guilty of just 10 of these?

How do you expect that the land to be good to you?

Do you expect good from Tinubu, Peter Obi, Atiku, Trump, Dangote etc? So, if they are your kings, how would you think that your life will be good?

You people are not serious

You haven't really addressed my argument.

I never said people are being personally charged for eating Adam's fruit. My argument is that I don't need Adam and Eve or original sin to explain the suffering we see today.

You say the land is bad because people are guilty of lying, stealing, murder, paganism, etc. But that only raises another question: how do you establish that poverty, disease, war and inequality are divine consequences of those sins rather than consequences of identifiable human actions and institutions?

If Tinubu, Trump, Dangote or any other human being makes decisions that affect millions of people, those consequences can be investigated politically, economically and socially. Calling the population "sinful" doesn't explain how those systems actually produce suffering.

And if God is making the land suffer because of people's sins, then why should we focus on changing governments, economies, healthcare systems, education and social institutions? Wouldn't the real solution simply be to eliminate sin?

My point remains simple: we inherited a world we did not create, but we are responsible for the world we are creating

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 3:25pm On Sep 09

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you choose to lie!🙂

There is only one group that has all these qualities you may choose to deny it but that's the truth.

*Can you mention a group that has no politician as member throughout the world? John 17:14-16

Well if you must know the reason why i asked you it's because politics is the only reason why people invent weapons so there is no way someone in politics will not use or be around those using weapons.

*Can you mention a group that a member could just get to any part of this planet and he already has a home simply because his fellow disciples will house him? Matthew 19:29

*Can you mention any group that goes from house to house and door to door speaking with people in their homes and going back to teach whoever receives them just as Jesus commanded his disciples? Matthew 28:19-20

*Can you mention a group that is united to the point of having the same beliefs so that people in all the earth knows what they believe because they are truly united in their faith? John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthans 1:10

*Can you mention a group where you won't see any force man either Army, Navy, Air Force not even a police man in their midst? Matthew 26:52

I'm sure by now you will wonder if there could ever be such a global group having all these qualities!🙂

MaxInDHouse, let's separate your claims from my questions, because this is where the deflection becomes obvious.

YOUR CLAIM: Understanding God's Word depends on the reader's “attitude.”

MY QUESTION: How does the reader know that his attitude is the correct one? What objective standard determines that?

NO ANSWER.

YOUR NEXT CLAIM: Jesus said, “By their fruits,” and this allows us to identify God's true organization.

MY QUESTION: Where does the Bible establish that peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity, and nonviolence are collectively an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?

NO ANSWER.

Instead, you simply claim:

“There is only one group that has all these qualities.”

But that is the very conclusion you are supposed to prove.

The Amish, Quakers, Mennonites, LDS/Mormons and Catholic Church can each demonstrate some of the characteristics you listed. So you must establish why this particular combination is uniquely prescribed by Scripture and why it uniquely identifies your organization.

“My organization fits the characteristics” does not prove “God chose my organization.”

That is the argument you keep avoiding.

You respond to questions with new claims, then treat those new claims as answers.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 2:46pm On Sep 09

sonmvayina:
1. Was it not God that flooded the earth and sent fire and brimstone on sodom and gomorah and also drowned the Egyptian army..

For number 2 read the kybalion .

Learn to read wife

Yes, the Bible describes destruction through floods, fire, and brimstone, but that does not establish that those events happened as described.

For example, what independent evidence shows that the entire planet was flooded? Genesis reflects the writer’s ancient cultural and geographical horizon. Was there someone in Australia, Canada, or elsewhere who independently confirmed to Noah that the entire earth was underwater? If not, how do we distinguish a claim about the writer’s known world from a literal claim about the whole planet?

Nor does The Kybalion solve the problem. It is itself a modern esoteric belief system. Citing another book that asserts the universe exists in the mind of “THE ALL” does not prove that “THE ALL” exists.

One unsupported supernatural claim cannot establish another.

And by the way
I have read The Kybalion.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 10:10am On Sep 09

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said "By their fruits" Matthew 7:16-18
Which means each organization of Bible students has a fruit that you will see anywhere they may be.

So the group that has the right attitude will do the things expected of God's people at the right time.
For instance this is what God's word says:

In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. ‭Isaiah 2:2-4 NIV‬

Verse 2 says this group will go throughout the world to gather their students.

Verse 3 says they will use the information found in the book of law authored by the God of Israel to teach themselves.

Verse 4 says this teaching will help them to settle their disparities peacefully among themselves, divert their resources into production of food and information materials, stop producing, buying, selling and/or using of weapons and bow never to raise weapons against anyone again!

This is the FRUIT expected of the group that truly understood God's word and that is what Jesus came to teach his disciples as the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} and Jesus said they will be his Witnesses throughout the world {Act 1:8} this means if you can't find any organization of people who can't do without weapons know that Jesus' followers have achieved this globally among themselves and all you need to do is IDENTIFY the group. And Jesus didn't leave you in the dark he said his true disciples will have LOVE among themselves and the whole world will testify to it that this global group have love for their members! John 13:34-35

You keep giving me verses, but the issue isn't the number of verses. It's the conclusion you're drawing from them.

Your argument is:

The Bible describes God's people > a group has those qualities > therefore that group is God's true people.

But that doesn't follow. Peace, love, preaching, unity, and nonviolence aren't unique to one group, so they can't independently prove divine appointment.

You're combining characteristics from different passages into a checklist, but you haven't shown that these traits uniquely identify one group or that God established this method.

There's also an issue with Isaiah 2:3. You describe “the Law” as the source this group would teach, but Torah means God's law or instruction, referring to the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Why, then, does identifying this group require combining Isaiah with Matthew, John, Acts, and other New Testament passages?

If Isaiah 2:3 is your starting point, first establish what Isaiah meant by “the Law” and why the prophecy should be treated as a test for identifying a modern group.

Otherwise, you're applying your own interpretive framework; not independently demonstrating God's choice.

Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 8:47am On Sep 09

judewrites:
I doubt if you are a Christian, because if you are you will realize the root of all human suffering is sin.

But we free to partake in any religion we believe in Nigeria, so your opinion is welcome.

Whether I am Christian does not determine whether the argument is true.

You say suffering comes from Adam and Eve’s sin. That is a belief, not proof. Yet, history also shows the danger of religious authority. The French Revolution challenged the Catholic Church’s privileges and pushed society toward secular citizenship and legal equality.

Now consider responsibility.

If a child is starving, Adam and Eve did not withhold the food. If a government steals public money, Adam and Eve did not steal it. If war destroys a community, Adam and Eve did not fire the missile.

Human beings did, but religion would have us hold Adam and Eve, culpable but not the very people who are responsible.

I don't need Adam and Eve to explain human cruelty. I can observe it.

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Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 8:12am On Sep 09

judewrites:
The problem of life started when sin came in...our first parents Adam and eve put us in this present predicament through their disobedience.

God never intended us to suffer. But this earth of sin and suffering will be destroyed with fire and God will create a new world 🌎 with no sin or sufferings.

This is why religion functions as an escape from responsibility.

Why should people thousands of years later explain poverty, disease, war, abuse, and inequality through the actions of two figures from an ancient story? I did not eat the fruit or make that decision, so holding me accountable would be unjust.

The story also conflicts with scientific evidence. Fossils, archaeology, and genetics show that modern humans have existed for roughly 300,000 years, with hominin ancestors reaching back millions of years. A literal Adam and Eve is inconsistent with human genetics.

Without this story, we would study disease, economics, psychology, politics, and human behavior; and seek practical solutions. But calling the world “broken because of the Fall” can discourage responsibility by treating poverty and suffering as inevitable or divinely planned. Adam and Eve are not governing countries, designing economies, starting wars, exploiting workers, or controlling access to food, healthcare, education, and opportunity.

We are.

We do not need Adam and Eve or original sin to explain human cruelty. I can observe it directly. Nor do we need paradise to justify reducing suffering. If someone is suffering, that alone is reason to care.

The world we inherited may not be our fault but the world we leave behind is our responsibility.

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Nairaland General › Re: Life Is Unfair And Its True by Roycemadeit(m): 8:00am On Sep 09

Evaress:
At times i begin to doubt the existence of God. When is life so biased?
Why are some rich, some poor?
Some ugly, some beautiful?
Some work so hard and gain nothing. Some don't even work at all and gain everything.
Some do suffer all through their lives, no one to love them
Why? Why? If our God is a partial God then why is life so cruel to some and so nice to others.

Perhaps the question is not, “Why is God partial?” but, “Why assume there is a God behind all of this?”

Life is not fair. People are born into vastly different circumstances, and suffering often seems random. That does not necessarily mean God is partial; it may mean nature does not follow our idea of fairness.

We often imagine a perfectly good and powerful God, then ask why He allows suffering. But perhaps we should ask what evidence we have that such a God designed and governs this world.

“God has a reason for everything” only postpones the question. What is the reason for a child’s suffering, a loveless life, or being born into circumstances one spends a lifetime escaping? Sometimes “God’s plan” is simply a name for what we do not understand.

Your doubts are nothing to be ashamed of. They show that you are taking the question seriously and facing reality honestly.

If no divine hand guarantees justice, responsibility falls on us. We must feed the hungry, protect the vulnerable, challenge injustice, and make life less cruel.

Let's ask, "Now that I see life isn’t fair, what will I do about it?”

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Christianity Etc › Re: Is Christianity The True Religion? Debate by Roycemadeit(m): 7:47am On Sep 09

MaxInDHouse:
You are not reasoning like a mature individual!

To help you will give you an illustration.
Imagine a teacher claims he is the best and there is no teacher like him only for thousands of to read his testbook and fail in the task expected by his students. Isaiah 65:13-14
But then the teacher explained that it's not everyone reading his textbook that can perform. Matthew 7:21-23

WHY?

Because the understanding of his textbook is tied to the attitude of a reader. Zephaniah 2:2-3; compare to Proverbs 2:1-5

And after so many years a group of scholars changed their attitude towards their study of the textbook and soon people started talking about this group but the funny thing most people are saying is that members of these group have turned the textbook upside down.

But in everywhere they may be found they are the best performing students.

Would you still say the teacher's textbook makes no practical sense?

I told you the meaning of God's word you are arguing yet you have concluded that the book is useless but there is a group of people making me best use of this same book and the whole world can testify to it. Matthew 5:14🥱

But your textbook analogy actually raises another question.

If two people read the same book and one can determine what is good, useful, or correct while the other cannot, then what gives the successful reader the ability to make that distinction?

You say it is their “attitude.” But how do they know which attitude is correct? How do they know which interpretation of the book is right? How do they distinguish the wisdom in the book from the parts that require reinterpretation?

Obviously, the reader's own reasoning becomes necessary to determine what the book actually means and what should be applied.

The achievement of people who use the book successfully does not prove that the book itself is the source of their judgment. It proves that human beings are capable of reading, interpreting, evaluating, and selecting from a text.

And that brings us back to the real question: if human reasoning is required to determine what the “Word of God” means, how do you prove that your interpretation comes from God rather than from the human mind interpreting the book?

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