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Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 10:56pm On Mar 15
Umbrateeth04:
It has been a long time, but I am back now smiley

Your perspective on this issue is quite interesting but yet again not above criticism
Having reviewed your questions, I will give a brief rundown of my perspective, though it revisits points from earlier discussions..

We are given many ideas before we ever question them. Strength, belief, authority, and even the tales of our beginnings are often presented as undeniable truths. Yet when examined rationally, many of these are not truths at all, but beliefs. The notion that strength alone determines superiority is not original; it is learned from environment and influence. But reverse the argument: if someone who values strength were born without it, or as a woman in a society that subjugates the feminine, would they accept being treated as inferior? Reality proves they would not.

The imbalance is most evident in how societies have treated women. For centuries, men have been placed on pedestals while women were expected to remain beneath them. If God is a Father, then the absence of a Mother represents a philosophical imbalance. A society that refuses to honor the feminine builds itself on only half its foundation. But voices long silenced will eventually speak. No human being can remain tied down forever. The old system cracks when people awaken. Today, women are discovering their strength, and societies are being forced to correct their own imbalance, most likely the old system would give way to a dysfunctionally aligned system. The thumb cannot exist without the forefinger. Our existence is a team effort.

The same principle applies to a deity considered the creator of all humanity, yet who sides with one tribe against another. One might never have been part of the chosen tribe if born elsewhere, in cities defeated in biblical tales. History adds another layer: the God ferried across oceans by conquistadors, subjugating peoples first and demanding belief afterward. Even creation myths invite scrutiny when examined alongside archaeological, genetic, and historical records of older cultures with similar narratives. And yet belief persists, not necessarily from understanding, but because it has been preserved from analysis.

Strength alone does not sustain civilization. Domination has never worked. What sustains the world is balance, understanding, and the humility to recognize that no single group, gender, or belief holds all the answers. A healthy order comes not from lifting one and crushing another, but from recognizing every part of humanity in its proper place.

If anything is worth defending, it is that no human being should kneel to ideas demanding division, ignorance, or submission. Healthy order is achieved through the discipline of balance. When we find balance, we move forward. When we deny it, we are doomed to have conflicts, most likely it would be sponsored by the God who wants disunity, Tower of Babel grin.

In conclusion, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the questions you raised. How do you interpret them, and what is your perspective?
RomanceRe: Lady Who Has Been In Relationship For 12 Years Cries As Man Dumps Her (Video) by Roycemadeit(m): 9:58pm On Feb 27
Expecting marriage in a serious relationship is not unreasonable. For many people, that is the point of dating. A relationship is often a space where two people observe each other’s character, values, and consistency over time. It may not reveal everything about a person, but it does reveal patterns. Wanting that process to lead somewhere stable and defined is intention.

At the same time, you can know your own heart and still not be fully sure of the other person’s. Someone may appear committed while quietly hesitating or keeping their options open.

It is important to understand what both of you are building, rather than assuming you share the same long term vision.

Life may not be about sampling endless varieties. Perhaps, it is about understanding, appreciating, and nurturing what you have but unfortunately they say having only one type of soup can cause intolerance.
RomanceShe Leaves, I Drink Hypo by Roycemadeit(op): 4:32pm On Feb 26
The idea that “I cannot live without you” sounds romantic, but if you pause and think about it, it makes no sense. You were alive before that person entered your life. You had years of experiences, struggles, achievements, routines. So what exactly did they give you that erased all of that the moment they walked away?

Loving someone deeply is not foolish. Sacrificing for someone you care about is not foolish. Going beyond your comfort to see someone you love thrive can be noble. But collapsing your entire identity into another person is not love. It is dependency disguised as devotion.
Somewhere along the line, people learned that intensity equals love. Maybe from religion, where surrender is glorified. Maybe from music and movies that celebrate lines like “I’m nothing without you.” It sounds passionate. It feels dramatic. But it is unstable.

When someone says their life means nothing without a partner, what they are really saying is that they built their sense of self around that relationship. That is not romance. That is emotional outsourcing. And when the relationship ends, everything crashes because there was nothing standing independently.

Love should be mutual agreement, shared vision, shared direction. Two people choosing each other while still remaining themselves. If one person changes their mind or breaks the agreement, it hurts. It can hurt deeply. But it does not cancel your existence. It does not erase your history. It does not delete your worth.

The belief that you cannot live without someone ignores a simple fact: you already did.
Nobody was born attached to a partner. People grow. People change. Plans shift. If someone walks away, you adjust. You build again. That is life.

To end your life because someone left is not proof of love. It is proof that you tied your entire identity to something that was never meant to carry that weight.

Love should expand you, not replace you. If it replaces you, then what you were calling love was something else entirely.
CrimeRe: 281 Arrested As Lagos Govt Raids Roads Over Omotaku Activities by Roycemadeit(m): 9:37pm On Jan 18
Historically, Italy offers a useful yardstick for understanding what happens when the state weakens. For decades, parts of Italy were controlled by mafia dons who operated as parallel governments. They imposed levies, enforced loyalty through violence, and decided who could trade, move, or survive within their territory. This system thrived where the state failed to provide justice, security, or economic fairness. Power was not earned through law, but seized through fear, normalizing criminal authority over civic responsibility.

This pattern repeats in societies when institutions abandon the people and instead protect elites. Security shifts from public service to private enforcement for those who can pay. The rest are left exposed. In such conditions, authority becomes a contest of dominance rather than legitimacy. Nigeria’s current trajectory shows worrying similarities, with groups like Omotaku demanding levies and asserting control.

When unofficial powers replace the state, culture is corrupted, ethics collapse, and crime becomes governance.

A nation survives not by force, but by justice that reaches everyone.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 4:44pm On Jan 10
Umbrateeth04:
am back smiley
What is your take on men being the superior being and women being the inferior weaker vessels?

Do you belief in this analogy if yes explain?

Do you disagree with this analogy if yes elaborate why you don't agree with the assumption?

Am anxiously waiting for your reply
I suspect you know my stance on this idea.

But, here goes nothing.

1. What is my take on men being the superior being and women being inferior, weaker vessels?

That idea is a social myth dressed up as nature or divine order. It’s not neither proven by biology, nor sustained by history unless force is involved. What it really describes is who held the penis, not who held the power of life. Superiority here is defined as authority and physical dominance, while everything that sustains existence is classified as secondary.


2. Do I believe in this analogy? If yes, explain.

No. The analogy collapses the moment you apply it consistently. If women were truly weaker vessels, they would not be the primary carriers of life, lineage, culture, and continuity. Women endure emotional, and social pressures that would break most systems designed only for dominance. Calling one vessel “weaker” because it does not resemble the other is like calling the womb inferior to the seed. One initiates, the other completes. Without completion, initiation is meaningless.

3. Do I disagree with this analogy? If yes, elaborate why you don’t agree with the assumption.

I disagree because the assumption is inverted. The belief originates from Abrahamic theology that needed hierarchy to function, so it encoded hierarchy into cosmology. God becomes male, authority becomes masculine, creation becomes command, and difference becomes defect. The woman is labeled weaker. Generative power has always frightened systems built on rule. So it was renamed weakness, moralized as submission, and preserved as doctrine.

P.S:
Men and women are not arranged on a hierarchy but exist as complementary forces, two points that only achieve meaning and wholeness when they meet. The moment one is placed above the other, relationship collapses into domination, and domination inevitably produces resistance, which is why prolonged subjugation gives rise to counter-movements like feminism. This struggle is not a failure of cooperation but the consequence of denying it. Wisdom lies in understanding that difference is not competition for control but an invitation to completion. Had divinity been imagined as feminine, the hierarchy would simply have flipped, with men labeled the weaker vessels, proving that these ideas were never about truth or nature, but about power deciding who speaks for God.
Christianity EtcRe: Justin Of Deconstruction Zone Says Jesus DID NOT Fulfil Any Messianic Prophecies by Roycemadeit(m): 7:16am On Dec 19, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
See a comment from another atheist:



It's OK jàre na SARCASM too!🤣
What he said doesn’t mean I’ll repeat it, we understand differently. You claim to know more than ordinary Christians too. Religion is conditioning: God never appeared to tell you how to reach Him. If you were born elsewhere, you likely wouldn’t know this God at all, you might fight or condemn those who believe in him.
Christianity EtcRe: Justin Of Deconstruction Zone Says Jesus DID NOT Fulfil Any Messianic Prophecies by Roycemadeit(m): 7:06am On Dec 19, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Whatever! wink
Read to understand, not to wear a cape and never fly
Christianity EtcRe: Justin Of Deconstruction Zone Says Jesus DID NOT Fulfil Any Messianic Prophecies by Roycemadeit(m): 7:04am On Dec 19, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Here is your comment:



S h a m e l e s s n e s s really eludes most people walahi talahi.

When you people don't know what else to do you turn to hinding behind a finger.

If truthfully you weren't silenced what is the essence of asking me to connect faith with reality?

You ran away from that thread after i did exactly what you asked and never replied the comment only for you now to claim it was sarcasm.

Ọmọ nobody will flog you for choosing atheism it's your choice but don't think you know better than true believers we are using the Bible to help millions across the globe to solve problems both in their homes and neighborhood.

So you are free to exempt yourself!🙂
grin grin grin Funny Fellow.
Christianity EtcRe: Justin Of Deconstruction Zone Says Jesus DID NOT Fulfil Any Messianic Prophecies by Roycemadeit(m): 6:52am On Dec 19, 2025
@MaxInDHouse grin

Roycemadeit:
Yes, you have silenced me, with facts, of course. You can define knowingness; now try defining belief and faith, and show me how they connect to reality...
Sarcasm keeps escaping you. I presented logic and evidence; you replied with mythology. When I said you’d “silenced me with facts,” it was dismissal, not praise. You mistook mockery for validation and wore it as intellect.

You confuse belief with knowledge and confidence with proof. When evidence appears, you retreat into faith and call it depth.

I don’t operate in belief. Belief begins where evidence ends. Intelligence needs neither faith nor applause.



P.S: Claiming superior understanding of the Bible just because your sect appeared recently is absurd. People studied, debated, and lived the Scriptures long before you existed. Obviously, God loved the world so much that He waited over a thousand years to reveal the “truth,” leaving everyone else misled or deceived until you finally arrived.

Use the added file below, instead of that sarcastic quotes.. ehn?

Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:50pm On Dec 18, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
That is not what we are talking about. You and I know that there is no people or place or culture where they do not know that there is a very evil being in existence
You don't know what you are talking about. There cultures that don't believe in evil existence.


I'll give you some examples for your inability to know but to only believe.


1. Buddhism
2. Taoism
3. Confucianism
4. African philosophy and spirituality like Ubuntu, Igbo and Yoruba.
5. Shinto
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:22am On Dec 18, 2025
@MaxInDHouse

I am sure that you won't understand this either 😭

Don’t confuse applause from believers with knowledge. You don’t know better - you only believe harder.

I didn’t start this discussion with you. When you joined, I took no offence. Yet you misquoted and misunderstood posts, maligned fellow Christians, dismissed evidence, and crowned yourself enlightened - all while offering imagination and an unquestioned book in place of logic or history.

You don’t belong in conversations that demand evidence, history, and logic if all you offer is imagination propped up by a book you refuse to question. Humanity progressed by interrogating beliefs, not by freezing them in reverence while silencing conscience and reason. The corruption and historical baggage of your faith are invisible to you only because you’ve never examined them honestly.


And stop projecting your framework onto me. I don’t operate on belief or faith.

Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 5:54pm On Dec 17, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Oh at last you've served your ban for using abusive speeches.

I've forgotten that AI is your god but that is your own personal problem.

Trust means believing in someone or something when you wake up in the morning, pick up your tooth brush and tooth paste it indicates that you BELIEVE (TRUST) that after use you'll get a fresh breath otherwise you won't confidently use it.

So believe means you trust in something or someone.
Believing and knowing aren't the same. And I should not trust a person who says, "God says, " especially when I didn't observe God saying anything to him... If God wanted me to know something he would tell me, not gossip about me with you.

Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 5:46pm On Dec 17, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
The book that said the earth is spherical and that there is a magnetic force gluing the inhabitants to it's surface thousands of years before your people later discovered it's correct? Isaiah 40:22

Or that explained water circle thousands of years before your people began doing gragra as if they discovered something new? Job 36:27-28

Or that explained how God suspended the earth upon nothing in space thousands of years before your people knew it? Job 26:7

Ọmọ that book has a lot that you and all your teachers can't discover in the next thousand years to come!🙂
The idea that scientific awareness began with the Bible is historically false; it is a later theological framing imposed on much older human knowledge.

Beyond astronomy, empirical evidence destroys the 6,000-year biblical timeline. Radiometric dating, archaeology, and paleoanthropology show the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, with human ancestors stretching back hundreds of thousands to millions of years, long before any biblical Adam.

These are not Western opinions; they are globally corroborated findings. Christianity did not introduce knowledge of the world; it arrived late, plagiarizing and reinterpreting earlier cosmologies.

Treating ancient history as if it must pass through a Christian lens is not scholarship, it is revisionism. World history does not begin in Genesis, and human understanding did not wait for the Bible to exist.

Even Jesus, is the sun up there in the sky not some mythical man...
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 5:33pm On Dec 17, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Your wish! wink

See your brother in Atheism has agreed that Jesus is a historical figure o! cheesy
First of, I ain't an atheist and second, I didn't claim that jesus ever existed, apparently you read and pick what you believe not that you comprehend.

Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:52am On Dec 17, 2025
The figure of Jesus Christ and the Bible itself, when examined, reveal a constructed, human-made system rather than a unique divine revelation.

Jesus, if he existed historically, was retrofitted with mythic attributes drawn from pre-existing saviour archetypes {miraculous birth, sacrificial death, resurrection, and cosmic significance} while his theological portrayal borrows heavily from Greco-Roman and earlier Jewish symbolism; the Bible, written over centuries by multiple authors in diverse cultural contexts, integrates Canaanite, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, and Persian religious motifs, from divine councils (Psalm 82:1) to the plural Elohim in Genesis 1:1, reflecting a syncretism of Gods and myths rather than a single infallible voice.

Moral dualism, the devil, and the cosmic battle between good and evil emerge late, influenced by Zoroastrian and Hellenistic thought, not as universal ethical principles.

Other cultures, from Confucian China to Buddhist India and Indigenous societies, developed coherent moral frameworks without any reference to the Bible, relying instead on human reason, social discipline, and observed consequences; to claim that all other cultures contain only fragments of biblical truth while the Bible alone provides clarity ignores the historical record, the evidence of independent moral systems, and the composite, evolving nature of the text itself, demonstrating that neither Jesus as a perfect, original figure nor the Bible as a singular, universal source of truth withstands critical scrutiny.


Even the Egyptians, according to the Bible, acted against Moses long before the Ten Commandments or Christianity existed, proving that moral action, or wrongdoing, was handled by human judgment, not because of a devil or supernatural tempter.


Belief has no place with facts or knowledge... To know, you will have to research, learn origins and use your brains otherwise you are a believer.


THIS CONVERSATIONS ARE BEYOND BELIEVERS FOR THEY ARE BASED ON LOGIC, HUMANISM AND CRITICAL ANALYSIS...
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:18pm On Dec 16, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Show me the culture
Fine, All the culture in the world believes in Christianity, and blames the devil...
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 4:31pm On Dec 16, 2025
@DtruthSpeaker

Perhaps, some history lessons...ehn?

Cultures that never encountered Christianity had no idea of the Devil as Christians describe it. The Devil is a figure that belongs to the Abrahamic religions. Other cultures had spirits or forces they feared, but not a single evil being opposing one supreme God.

When Christianity spread, especially through missionaries, many local beliefs were reinterpreted and labelled as demonic. This made it seem as though the Devil had always been there, when in fact a Christian idea was being imposed. Blaming the Devil for evil also allows people to avoid taking responsibility for what they choose to do.




@MaxInDHouse

Many have been taught that paradise or heaven is a place of perfect happiness, but I do see fallacy in it, there is no way to remain truly happy if a close relative or friend are suffering or excluded.

To accept that, a person would have to put aside normal human feelings and conscience. The only way it would be a place of happiness is that people are changed in heaven, maybe their minds formatted, human empathy must be removed for happiness to be in paradise.




@Umbrateeth04

When it comes to what happens after death, I do not claim to know. Even Christians disagree among themselves. Catholics believe the soul remains conscious after death and faces judgement, while Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the dead are unconscious until a future resurrection.

These views contradict each other, yet both are treated as truth. That tells you these ideas are based on belief, not knowledge.

I choose to say I do not know. And nobody could tell until they die otherwise whatever belief you have is one of many told by a person who probably hadn't died yet or had some type of illusion from prior indoctrination.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:50am On Dec 16, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible God didn't create Adam to live for sometime and expire it was rebellion that led to death spreading to all his descendants. Romans 5:12
So the HOPE is to regain what Adam lost which is the opportunity to live forever as youths! Psalms 37:29
I’ve thought about the idea of living forever in paradise, and it raises serious questions.

Happiness only has meaning because sadness exists. Health only matters because we know illness. Remove all limits, and life loses depth. Eternal life without contrast is flat existence.

Life gains value from its finiteness. Achievements, relationships, and choices matter because they are temporary. If life were infinite, nothing would feel precious or significant.

Growth requires challenge. Overcoming suffering, failure, and change is how we develop. A state with no decay or risk removes the possibility of growth.

I understand endless life may read appealing, but it risks emptiness. Finite, fragile, contrast-rich life is what makes existence meaningful. Without those conditions, eternity is not life, it’s suspension.

So, I don't think I wanna have such life...
LiteratureRe: Hot Soles by Roycemadeit(op): 8:39am On Dec 16, 2025
Chapter 4: part 2

I hesitated for a moment longer than was necessary. Not because my legs would not move, but because my mind was still trying to catch up with the situation my body had already agreed to enter. His eyes were fixed on me, calm and unreadable, and somehow that quiet intensity was more commanding than shouting would have been. Slowly, deliberately, I stepped forward and climbed into the car. Michael faded behind me, his presence dissolving like a thought interrupted too late.

The door shut. Soft. Final.

Inside, the car felt sealed off from the world. The air carried the scent of leather and something floral, expensive but restrained. Nothing here was accidental. The interior lights cast a gentle glow that softened edges and hid shadows, making everything feel curated, intentional, controlled.

And then there was her.

Titi sat with the ease of someone who belonged exactly where she was. The white gown clung to her in a way that suggested elegance rather than effort. Lace traced its edges like a quiet secret. She smiled when she saw me, not surprised, not relieved, but pleased, as though events were unfolding precisely as she expected.

For a moment, I stopped existing in time.

She looked unreal. Caramel skin smooth and luminous, her face so clean it seemed edited by a skilled hand rather than shaped by nature. Her eyes were almond, slightly angled, framed by thick, perfectly arched brows that looked sculpted rather than grown. Her face was long, her jaw proud, a Roman chin sitting confidently beneath lips that were full, supple, and dangerously expressive.

My mind stalled.

She noticed.

A soft snigger escaped her lips, light but deliberate, and she extended her hand toward me. The gesture snapped me back into myself.

“Oh. I am sorry,” I said quickly, averting my eyes as if I had been caught staring at something forbidden. I had not expected to see her this soon, and certainly not like this. In my head, this meeting had been scheduled for later, for a time when I would be prepared, when I could rehearse confidence in front of a mirror and hide uncertainty behind familiar lines. I had imagined tonight. Searched her out on the internet just as I did with her phone number on Truecaller. Studying her from a distance. Understanding her before she could understand me.

Instead, she was here. And I was exposed.

I masked my disarray poorly, pretending to notice something outside the window. For the first few minutes seated beside her in the back of that immaculate car, her eyes did not leave my face. They burned through me, not aggressively, but thoroughly, like heat sinking into metal. It felt as though something heavy and molten had poured from my head into my stomach, weighing me down from the inside.

I swallowed hard. Once. Then again.

She did not respond to my greeting. She simply watched me, silent, observant. I turned my head slightly and looked out the window, grateful for the soldier still standing outside, rigid and unmoving, a reminder that this was real and not a projection of my own imagination.

I needed to speak.

“Is your father…” I began, then paused, trying to arrange the sentence without sounding foolish. “I thought you said your father wanted to meet me?”

She laughed softly, almost indulgently. “Do not be funny,” she said. “That is not my dad.”

Relief rushed in before confusion followed close behind. If not her father, then who was he to her. And why was he here.

“So,” I said, forcing a smile as I turned back to her, “are you this quiet in person?” I needed to regain some balance. “Do you have all your conversations in your head?”

Instead of answering, she shifted closer and placed her hand around mine. The contact was light, but deliberate.

“It is a pleasure meeting you, Royce,” she said.

“And me too,” I replied, pointing at my head. “Feeding my eyes with you was so overwhelming it felt like my system was being hacked.”

Her gaze followed my finger, then drifted lower, resting somewhere I would rather it had not. Her smile deepened.

“That system?” she asked.

The implication landed immediately. She was flirting. Openly. Without apology. Without fear. I tried to flatten my stomach instinctively, adjusting my posture in a futile attempt to suggest definition where comfort had long replaced discipline. The shirt clung to me anyway, betraying every insecurity.

She noticed. Of course she did.

She placed her palm fully over my hand. Warm. Confident.

“Do you like what you see?” she asked, slowly running her tongue over her lips before biting the lower one.

My throat tightened. Saliva pooled uncomfortably and I had to clear my throat to keep my voice intact.

“Yes,” I said carefully. “So far, I think I like what I have not seen.”

The words surprised even me. They came from a place of instinct rather than calculation, from a part of me that had spent years crafting lines for others, watching them work like keys in locks that were never meant for me. Friends had used my words and succeeded. Sometimes girls ended up calling me instead. Maybe it was my voice. Maybe it was timing. Maybe it was just luck.

Titi reached into her handbag and pulled out a pack of Marlboro cigarettes. She offered me one without breaking eye contact. I declined. She returned them to the bag, slow and unhurried.

“So,” she asked, shifting back slightly, “how is work?”

“Work is fine,” I said. “After those four subscriptions, I closed shop. I just wanted to relax and disturb the peace until closing.”

I did not mention the activation. The discreet stimulants we took during breaks. The way we bought alcohol from the Aboki at the corner, mixed it with soft drinks, and drank from their plastic bottles concealed in nylon while calling clients, constantly watching ourselves so we would not be found out. Funny, It was the activation that had loosened my professionalism. That had opened a door to Titi. And now, here I was, sitting in the consequence of that openness.

Her lips caught my attention again. Flamboyant. Expressive. Almost theatrical. The kind of lips that made promises without words.

Conversation drifted. Light topics. Half confessions. She was touchy now, brushing my arm, leaning closer than necessary. It meant something. Or maybe it meant nothing at all. I did not dare to touch her back. Not yet. Beauty like this carried weight. Confidence like hers demanded caution.

I thought briefly of the girls I ignored. The ones who tried too hard. The ones who brushed against me deliberately and were met with indifference. They would have laughed if they saw me now, stripped of narcissism and self importance, sitting stiff beside a woman who intimidated me without effort.

After nearly fifteen minutes, she motioned for the soldier to get in. That was my cue.

I stepped out quickly to retrieve my belongings and submit my work phone. Inside, my teammates buzzed with curiosity. I gave them nothing but a smile.

“Later,” I said.

I turned to Serah. “Sorry, you were saying?”

Her eyes widened, surprise overtaking mockery. Dami said nothing. No one protested. It was not closing time, but no one stopped me.

When I stepped back outside, the contrast hit me. Inside the office was noise, fluorescent lights, unfinished conversations. Outside was silence, tinted glass, and something unknown waiting patiently.

As I slid back into the car, the door closing behind me once more, I realised the line had already been crossed.
1 Like
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:18am On Dec 16, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Please ask any of them to answer that question if truly they are Christians.

The Bible says:

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect. 1Peter 3:15

Real Christians won't insult you no matter the scrutiny or curiosity we must respond mildly and respectfully as long as you are asking sincere questions we must ignore when you choose to become abusive so instead of exchanging hurtful words we take our leave! Proverbs 17:14

Someone noticed this even when i wasn't thinking he was testing my patience:



So when you are ready let me know!
What's this hope that Christians have?
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:17am On Dec 16, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
.

Bbc
Crossbow killer said 'devil' made him do it
5 Mar 2025 — Crossbow

FOX 2
https://fox2now.com
“The devil made me do it” – Man admits to murder on the witness ...
The example given remains confined to a Western Christian framework. Cultures that developed outside Christianity, such as traditional African societies, Hindu cultures, or classical East Asian systems, did not frame wrongdoing around the Christian devil.

While many of these cultures acknowledged spiritual forces, moral failure was largely treated as a matter of personal and communal responsibility, often addressed through restitution, punishment, or moral duty rather than external blame.

The Christian concept of Satan, later spread globally through colonisation and missionary activity, introduced a model in which moral failure could be attributed to an external supernatural agent.

Your example exists within that belief system; outside it are long-standing cultures that maintained accountability without the need for the devil as explanation.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:25pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
When you are satisfied arguing with the misinformed churchgoers remember i'm not one of them our unfinished business is still pending if you are still interested:
Good.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:13pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Now you have moved post to doesn't exist, whereas the whole world confess their experiencing his touch and influence.
I would want to know this "whole world" that confesses this experiences and influences.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:03pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
I told you up here that "Acting under orders is not a defence to an offence. A rapist still remains guilty like the Muslim who was found guilty of raping his wife, even when he said Islam permits him.

That is why you see God punished male and female Adam, even when they blamed another person for making them commit an offence.

So responsibility for doing a wrong is never shifted simply because someone made you commit the crime.

I bet you do not know that even your criminal laws state that, someone who counsels another to commit a crime is treated as a principal offender, liable for the same offense and punishment as if they committed it themselves, often called an abettor, accomplice, aider, or procurer. (Sections 7 of the criminal code)

And it is under here you see why God punished the serpent along with Adam male and female
I don’t even know how to debate this. How can I argue about a story set in a garden with a talking serpent, cursed to eat dust, a thing no snake actually does?

How can I discuss that there could be childbirth without pain when biology clearly says otherwise? A newborn’s head is about 5 inches in diameter, and the shoulders can span around 10 inches, childbirth is inherently difficult and painful.

Are we to imagine she was put to sleep and her reproductive system completely reworked?

I just can’t have this conversation over something that reeks of myth. The story is fantastical, like the tortoise climbing the sky and playing with eagles.

From my standpoint, it defies reality, and reason struggles to hold against it.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:47pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Is there anyplace in the world where that statement "the devil made me do it” has never been made?

No, there is no place or culture or race where it has never been made.

So, that tells you that it is part of "direct observation".
Right? Given that the devil doesn't only exist in Abrahamic religions...
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:45pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
According to God's word Adam will die if he rebel against God's order {Genesis 2:17} Satan lied telling Eve they won't die for real {Genesis 3:4} so only believers in the Bible have the accurate knowledge about the condition of the death which is a complete return to non-existence {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} not to continue existing somewhere else because that's the lie Satan (not God) told Eve. John 8:44

So true Christians believe that at death a sinner has been acquainted of his sins {Romans 6:7} the only hope for such a sinner if he lived by conscience is the resurrection which God promised both the righteous and the unrighteous! Act 24:15

The RIGHTEOUS are faithful servants of God who have lived by His rules so He declared them "righteous"
The UNRIGHTEOUS are people who lived by their God's given conscience though they don't know God's laws but they strive to do what their conscience permits {Romans 2:14-15} so God will remember them for living by the golden rule. Matthew 7:12

Those that have had it all are the WICKED this ones doesn't fear God or man and they have rendered their conscience dead so they will never be recalled back to life after their death! Psalms 9:17
I’ve read your submission carefully, and it seems that your conclusion about death being complete non-existence comes more from dogma, doctrine, and tenets than from the Bible itself.

While you rely on Ecclesiastes 9:5 -10, other passages suggest continued awareness after death, such as Luke 16:19 -31 and Philippians 1:23. These verses complicate the picture and show that the Bible does not present death in only one way.

Your categories of the righteous, the conscientious, and the wicked also simplify a complex biblical message.

Romans 2:14–15, Matthew 7:21–23, and Revelation 20:11–15 indicate that conscience alone is not enough, and resurrection does not guarantee salvation.

Yet your argument seems to rely on selective verses that support your preferred framework, ignoring others that present a broader and sometimes contradictory perspective.

In short, the sense of certainty in your interpretation is shaped by your chosen dogma rather than the full scope of Scripture.

The Bible contains multiple views on death, resurrection, and judgment, and any claim that presents only one interpretation as absolute overlooks passages that challenge it.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:29pm On Dec 15, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
so if you don't believe in heaven and hell where do morals and immorals go to after death?
To address the question of what happens to the Moral and the Immoral after death, I will not imagine as different cultures have imagined different outcomes and force one on you, but I will give you a few examples from which you may pick one which is true...

In ancient Egypt, the deceased’s heart was weighed against a feather, with success leading to eternal life and failure to annihilation.

The Greeks believed most souls went to Hades, with virtuous souls reaching Elysium and the wicked punished in Tartarus.

Vikings imagined warriors entering Valhalla, while others went to Hel.

The Persians, believed souls cross a bridge, judged by the balance of their deeds, entering paradise or a state of suffering.

Islam speaks of Jannah and Jahannam.

Christians of heaven and hell.

I do not claim to know what actually happens. Unlike Christians, I do not hold a belief about the fate of the dead. All I can do is observe that cultures have imagined afterlife outcomes linked to morality, but none of this provides empirical knowledge.

Belief is not proof, and I remain neutral, recognising that what people claim as truth about the dead is shaped by culture, tradition, and faith rather than verified reality.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:27pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
You need enlightenment Sir.

It's the Antichrist that welcomed the idea of torment in hell and bliss in heaven not the real Christians so false religion masquerading as Christians is what you know not the real Christians!
I suppose that you are the Christian and doesn't hold the same beliefs of hell and heaven as others who are been led astray by the Antichrist.

You see, I am now interested in knowing what the Christian says, cuz I mightn't have got the right enlightenment.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:18pm On Dec 15, 2025

If a child is caught stealing and claims, “the devil made me do it,” the parent still holds the child accountable because it was the child who acted. Blaming a supernatural entity removes human agency entirely. Moral accountability only makes sense when humans themselves are understood as the actors of their deeds, not as passive vessels manipulated by external forces. Responsibility cannot be shifted to imaginary agents without undermining ethics and observable behaviour.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:11pm On Dec 15, 2025
Wrongdoing is best explained through observable human factors such as desire, impulse, social conditioning, environment, and personal responsibility. People often act in ways that please them even when they know others may be harmed. These causes are observed across cultures.

For those who deem wrong doing to be due to the influence of spiritual entities, statements like “the devil made me do it” come from their belief system. However, their claim is not based on direct observation but on religious teaching.

The concept of the devil and the concept of sin emerge from the same theological source. Without exposure to that framework, no one naturally attributes their actions to the devil.

In societies that were never Christianised, people explained wrongdoing in different terms.

This shows that spiritual explanations for sin are belief-based interpretations layered onto behaviour, not independent causes. Human actions can be understood without invoking unseen entities, and responsibility remains with the individual, not a supernatural force.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 1:55pm On Dec 15, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
do you believe in heaven and hell?
I don't think heaven and hell exist.

They are Christian concepts which are borrowed from older belief systems. And interestingly, those older beliefs are labeled paganism just after Christianity milked the concepts that it likes.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:21am On Dec 15, 2025



I prefer not to dwell on this further because discussions about belief often become contests of superiority rather than reason. People defend their beliefs fiercely, sometimes condemning or wishing ill, not to seek truth but to protect what they hold. Evidence rarely changes this.

I have stated my standpoint and the reasons for it. I am not here to argue or convert anyone. You may stand where you stand, and I will stand where I stand. There is no need for endless back-and-forth. My goal is clarity, not confrontation.



Paul framing sin as an internal, almost autonomous force, and the division between flesh and mind, reflects theological assumptions rather than observable mechanisms. In Romans 7, sin is portrayed as a separate entity dwelling within humans, compelling them to act against moral awareness. Modern psychology and neuroscience suggest otherwise.


Moral failure usually arises from the interaction of impulses, habits, cognitive biases, and environmental pressures, rather than an independent force acting within the body.



Cross-cultural evidence supports this. Confucianism emphasises moral cultivation through education and habit, not inherited sin. African and indigenous systems view wrongdoing as a result of lack of guidance or social disharmony. Neuroscience shows self-control and moral reasoning rely on integrated brain processes, not a battle between flesh and mind.


Moral failure is better explained by psychological, social, and environmental factors than by a metaphysical force.

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