₦airaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: Register • Login • With Google • Trending • Recent • New

Stats: 3,344,212 members, 8,510,678 topics. Date: Friday, 30 October 2026 at 08:08 PM

Toggle theme

Roycemadeit's Posts

Nairaland Forum › Roycemadeit's Profile › Roycemadeit's Posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (of 38 pages)

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 5:46pm On Dec 17, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
The book that said the earth is spherical and that there is a magnetic force gluing the inhabitants to it's surface thousands of years before your people later discovered it's correct? Isaiah 40:22

Or that explained water circle thousands of years before your people began doing gragra as if they discovered something new? Job 36:27-28

Or that explained how God suspended the earth upon nothing in space thousands of years before your people knew it? Job 26:7

Ọmọ that book has a lot that you and all your teachers can't discover in the next thousand years to come!🙂
The idea that scientific awareness began with the Bible is historically false; it is a later theological framing imposed on much older human knowledge.

Beyond astronomy, empirical evidence destroys the 6,000-year biblical timeline. Radiometric dating, archaeology, and paleoanthropology show the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, with human ancestors stretching back hundreds of thousands to millions of years, long before any biblical Adam.

These are not Western opinions; they are globally corroborated findings. Christianity did not introduce knowledge of the world; it arrived late, plagiarizing and reinterpreting earlier cosmologies.

Treating ancient history as if it must pass through a Christian lens is not scholarship, it is revisionism. World history does not begin in Genesis, and human understanding did not wait for the Bible to exist.

Even Jesus, is the sun up there in the sky not some mythical man...
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 5:33pm On Dec 17, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Your wish! wink

See your brother in Atheism has agreed that Jesus is a historical figure o! cheesy
First of, I ain't an atheist and second, I didn't claim that jesus ever existed, apparently you read and pick what you believe not that you comprehend.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:52am On Dec 17, 2025
The figure of Jesus Christ and the Bible itself, when examined, reveal a constructed, human-made system rather than a unique divine revelation.

Jesus, if he existed historically, was retrofitted with mythic attributes drawn from pre-existing saviour archetypes {miraculous birth, sacrificial death, resurrection, and cosmic significance} while his theological portrayal borrows heavily from Greco-Roman and earlier Jewish symbolism; the Bible, written over centuries by multiple authors in diverse cultural contexts, integrates Canaanite, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, and Persian religious motifs, from divine councils (Psalm 82:1) to the plural Elohim in Genesis 1:1, reflecting a syncretism of Gods and myths rather than a single infallible voice.

Moral dualism, the devil, and the cosmic battle between good and evil emerge late, influenced by Zoroastrian and Hellenistic thought, not as universal ethical principles.

Other cultures, from Confucian China to Buddhist India and Indigenous societies, developed coherent moral frameworks without any reference to the Bible, relying instead on human reason, social discipline, and observed consequences; to claim that all other cultures contain only fragments of biblical truth while the Bible alone provides clarity ignores the historical record, the evidence of independent moral systems, and the composite, evolving nature of the text itself, demonstrating that neither Jesus as a perfect, original figure nor the Bible as a singular, universal source of truth withstands critical scrutiny.


Even the Egyptians, according to the Bible, acted against Moses long before the Ten Commandments or Christianity existed, proving that moral action, or wrongdoing, was handled by human judgment, not because of a devil or supernatural tempter.


Belief has no place with facts or knowledge... To know, you will have to research, learn origins and use your brains otherwise you are a believer.


THIS CONVERSATIONS ARE BEYOND BELIEVERS FOR THEY ARE BASED ON LOGIC, HUMANISM AND CRITICAL ANALYSIS...
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:18pm On Dec 16, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Show me the culture
Fine, All the culture in the world believes in Christianity, and blames the devil...
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 4:31pm On Dec 16, 2025
@DtruthSpeaker

Perhaps, some history lessons...ehn?

Cultures that never encountered Christianity had no idea of the Devil as Christians describe it. The Devil is a figure that belongs to the Abrahamic religions. Other cultures had spirits or forces they feared, but not a single evil being opposing one supreme God.

When Christianity spread, especially through missionaries, many local beliefs were reinterpreted and labelled as demonic. This made it seem as though the Devil had always been there, when in fact a Christian idea was being imposed. Blaming the Devil for evil also allows people to avoid taking responsibility for what they choose to do.




@MaxInDHouse

Many have been taught that paradise or heaven is a place of perfect happiness, but I do see fallacy in it, there is no way to remain truly happy if a close relative or friend are suffering or excluded.

To accept that, a person would have to put aside normal human feelings and conscience. The only way it would be a place of happiness is that people are changed in heaven, maybe their minds formatted, human empathy must be removed for happiness to be in paradise.




@Umbrateeth04

When it comes to what happens after death, I do not claim to know. Even Christians disagree among themselves. Catholics believe the soul remains conscious after death and faces judgement, while Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the dead are unconscious until a future resurrection.

These views contradict each other, yet both are treated as truth. That tells you these ideas are based on belief, not knowledge.

I choose to say I do not know. And nobody could tell until they die otherwise whatever belief you have is one of many told by a person who probably hadn't died yet or had some type of illusion from prior indoctrination.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:50am On Dec 16, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible God didn't create Adam to live for sometime and expire it was rebellion that led to death spreading to all his descendants. Romans 5:12
So the HOPE is to regain what Adam lost which is the opportunity to live forever as youths! Psalms 37:29
I’ve thought about the idea of living forever in paradise, and it raises serious questions.

Happiness only has meaning because sadness exists. Health only matters because we know illness. Remove all limits, and life loses depth. Eternal life without contrast is flat existence.

Life gains value from its finiteness. Achievements, relationships, and choices matter because they are temporary. If life were infinite, nothing would feel precious or significant.

Growth requires challenge. Overcoming suffering, failure, and change is how we develop. A state with no decay or risk removes the possibility of growth.

I understand endless life may read appealing, but it risks emptiness. Finite, fragile, contrast-rich life is what makes existence meaningful. Without those conditions, eternity is not life, it’s suspension.

So, I don't think I wanna have such life...
Literature › Re: Hot Soles by Roycemadeit(op): 8:39am On Dec 16, 2025
Chapter 4: part 2

I hesitated for a moment longer than was necessary. Not because my legs would not move, but because my mind was still trying to catch up with the situation my body had already agreed to enter. His eyes were fixed on me, calm and unreadable, and somehow that quiet intensity was more commanding than shouting would have been. Slowly, deliberately, I stepped forward and climbed into the car. Michael faded behind me, his presence dissolving like a thought interrupted too late.

The door shut. Soft. Final.

Inside, the car felt sealed off from the world. The air carried the scent of leather and something floral, expensive but restrained. Nothing here was accidental. The interior lights cast a gentle glow that softened edges and hid shadows, making everything feel curated, intentional, controlled.

And then there was her.

Titi sat with the ease of someone who belonged exactly where she was. The white gown clung to her in a way that suggested elegance rather than effort. Lace traced its edges like a quiet secret. She smiled when she saw me, not surprised, not relieved, but pleased, as though events were unfolding precisely as she expected.

For a moment, I stopped existing in time.

She looked unreal. Caramel skin smooth and luminous, her face so clean it seemed edited by a skilled hand rather than shaped by nature. Her eyes were almond, slightly angled, framed by thick, perfectly arched brows that looked sculpted rather than grown. Her face was long, her jaw proud, a Roman chin sitting confidently beneath lips that were full, supple, and dangerously expressive.

My mind stalled.

She noticed.

A soft snigger escaped her lips, light but deliberate, and she extended her hand toward me. The gesture snapped me back into myself.

“Oh. I am sorry,” I said quickly, averting my eyes as if I had been caught staring at something forbidden. I had not expected to see her this soon, and certainly not like this. In my head, this meeting had been scheduled for later, for a time when I would be prepared, when I could rehearse confidence in front of a mirror and hide uncertainty behind familiar lines. I had imagined tonight. Searched her out on the internet just as I did with her phone number on Truecaller. Studying her from a distance. Understanding her before she could understand me.

Instead, she was here. And I was exposed.

I masked my disarray poorly, pretending to notice something outside the window. For the first few minutes seated beside her in the back of that immaculate car, her eyes did not leave my face. They burned through me, not aggressively, but thoroughly, like heat sinking into metal. It felt as though something heavy and molten had poured from my head into my stomach, weighing me down from the inside.

I swallowed hard. Once. Then again.

She did not respond to my greeting. She simply watched me, silent, observant. I turned my head slightly and looked out the window, grateful for the soldier still standing outside, rigid and unmoving, a reminder that this was real and not a projection of my own imagination.

I needed to speak.

“Is your father…” I began, then paused, trying to arrange the sentence without sounding foolish. “I thought you said your father wanted to meet me?”

She laughed softly, almost indulgently. “Do not be funny,” she said. “That is not my dad.”

Relief rushed in before confusion followed close behind. If not her father, then who was he to her. And why was he here.

“So,” I said, forcing a smile as I turned back to her, “are you this quiet in person?” I needed to regain some balance. “Do you have all your conversations in your head?”

Instead of answering, she shifted closer and placed her hand around mine. The contact was light, but deliberate.

“It is a pleasure meeting you, Royce,” she said.

“And me too,” I replied, pointing at my head. “Feeding my eyes with you was so overwhelming it felt like my system was being hacked.”

Her gaze followed my finger, then drifted lower, resting somewhere I would rather it had not. Her smile deepened.

“That system?” she asked.

The implication landed immediately. She was flirting. Openly. Without apology. Without fear. I tried to flatten my stomach instinctively, adjusting my posture in a futile attempt to suggest definition where comfort had long replaced discipline. The shirt clung to me anyway, betraying every insecurity.

She noticed. Of course she did.

She placed her palm fully over my hand. Warm. Confident.

“Do you like what you see?” she asked, slowly running her tongue over her lips before biting the lower one.

My throat tightened. Saliva pooled uncomfortably and I had to clear my throat to keep my voice intact.

“Yes,” I said carefully. “So far, I think I like what I have not seen.”

The words surprised even me. They came from a place of instinct rather than calculation, from a part of me that had spent years crafting lines for others, watching them work like keys in locks that were never meant for me. Friends had used my words and succeeded. Sometimes girls ended up calling me instead. Maybe it was my voice. Maybe it was timing. Maybe it was just luck.

Titi reached into her handbag and pulled out a pack of Marlboro cigarettes. She offered me one without breaking eye contact. I declined. She returned them to the bag, slow and unhurried.

“So,” she asked, shifting back slightly, “how is work?”

“Work is fine,” I said. “After those four subscriptions, I closed shop. I just wanted to relax and disturb the peace until closing.”

I did not mention the activation. The discreet stimulants we took during breaks. The way we bought alcohol from the Aboki at the corner, mixed it with soft drinks, and drank from their plastic bottles concealed in nylon while calling clients, constantly watching ourselves so we would not be found out. Funny, It was the activation that had loosened my professionalism. That had opened a door to Titi. And now, here I was, sitting in the consequence of that openness.

Her lips caught my attention again. Flamboyant. Expressive. Almost theatrical. The kind of lips that made promises without words.

Conversation drifted. Light topics. Half confessions. She was touchy now, brushing my arm, leaning closer than necessary. It meant something. Or maybe it meant nothing at all. I did not dare to touch her back. Not yet. Beauty like this carried weight. Confidence like hers demanded caution.

I thought briefly of the girls I ignored. The ones who tried too hard. The ones who brushed against me deliberately and were met with indifference. They would have laughed if they saw me now, stripped of narcissism and self importance, sitting stiff beside a woman who intimidated me without effort.

After nearly fifteen minutes, she motioned for the soldier to get in. That was my cue.

I stepped out quickly to retrieve my belongings and submit my work phone. Inside, my teammates buzzed with curiosity. I gave them nothing but a smile.

“Later,” I said.

I turned to Serah. “Sorry, you were saying?”

Her eyes widened, surprise overtaking mockery. Dami said nothing. No one protested. It was not closing time, but no one stopped me.

When I stepped back outside, the contrast hit me. Inside the office was noise, fluorescent lights, unfinished conversations. Outside was silence, tinted glass, and something unknown waiting patiently.

As I slid back into the car, the door closing behind me once more, I realised the line had already been crossed.
1 Like
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:18am On Dec 16, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Please ask any of them to answer that question if truly they are Christians.

The Bible says:

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect. 1Peter 3:15

Real Christians won't insult you no matter the scrutiny or curiosity we must respond mildly and respectfully as long as you are asking sincere questions we must ignore when you choose to become abusive so instead of exchanging hurtful words we take our leave! Proverbs 17:14

Someone noticed this even when i wasn't thinking he was testing my patience:



So when you are ready let me know!
What's this hope that Christians have?
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:17am On Dec 16, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
.

Bbc
Crossbow killer said 'devil' made him do it
5 Mar 2025 — Crossbow

FOX 2
https://fox2now.com
“The devil made me do it” – Man admits to murder on the witness ...
The example given remains confined to a Western Christian framework. Cultures that developed outside Christianity, such as traditional African societies, Hindu cultures, or classical East Asian systems, did not frame wrongdoing around the Christian devil.

While many of these cultures acknowledged spiritual forces, moral failure was largely treated as a matter of personal and communal responsibility, often addressed through restitution, punishment, or moral duty rather than external blame.

The Christian concept of Satan, later spread globally through colonisation and missionary activity, introduced a model in which moral failure could be attributed to an external supernatural agent.

Your example exists within that belief system; outside it are long-standing cultures that maintained accountability without the need for the devil as explanation.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:25pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
When you are satisfied arguing with the misinformed churchgoers remember i'm not one of them our unfinished business is still pending if you are still interested:
Good.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:13pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Now you have moved post to doesn't exist, whereas the whole world confess their experiencing his touch and influence.
I would want to know this "whole world" that confesses this experiences and influences.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:03pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
I told you up here that "Acting under orders is not a defence to an offence. A rapist still remains guilty like the Muslim who was found guilty of raping his wife, even when he said Islam permits him.

That is why you see God punished male and female Adam, even when they blamed another person for making them commit an offence.

So responsibility for doing a wrong is never shifted simply because someone made you commit the crime.

I bet you do not know that even your criminal laws state that, someone who counsels another to commit a crime is treated as a principal offender, liable for the same offense and punishment as if they committed it themselves, often called an abettor, accomplice, aider, or procurer. (Sections 7 of the criminal code)

And it is under here you see why God punished the serpent along with Adam male and female
I don’t even know how to debate this. How can I argue about a story set in a garden with a talking serpent, cursed to eat dust, a thing no snake actually does?

How can I discuss that there could be childbirth without pain when biology clearly says otherwise? A newborn’s head is about 5 inches in diameter, and the shoulders can span around 10 inches, childbirth is inherently difficult and painful.

Are we to imagine she was put to sleep and her reproductive system completely reworked?

I just can’t have this conversation over something that reeks of myth. The story is fantastical, like the tortoise climbing the sky and playing with eagles.

From my standpoint, it defies reality, and reason struggles to hold against it.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:47pm On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
Is there anyplace in the world where that statement "the devil made me do it” has never been made?

No, there is no place or culture or race where it has never been made.

So, that tells you that it is part of "direct observation".
Right? Given that the devil doesn't only exist in Abrahamic religions...
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:45pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
According to God's word Adam will die if he rebel against God's order {Genesis 2:17} Satan lied telling Eve they won't die for real {Genesis 3:4} so only believers in the Bible have the accurate knowledge about the condition of the death which is a complete return to non-existence {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} not to continue existing somewhere else because that's the lie Satan (not God) told Eve. John 8:44

So true Christians believe that at death a sinner has been acquainted of his sins {Romans 6:7} the only hope for such a sinner if he lived by conscience is the resurrection which God promised both the righteous and the unrighteous! Act 24:15

The RIGHTEOUS are faithful servants of God who have lived by His rules so He declared them "righteous"
The UNRIGHTEOUS are people who lived by their God's given conscience though they don't know God's laws but they strive to do what their conscience permits {Romans 2:14-15} so God will remember them for living by the golden rule. Matthew 7:12

Those that have had it all are the WICKED this ones doesn't fear God or man and they have rendered their conscience dead so they will never be recalled back to life after their death! Psalms 9:17
I’ve read your submission carefully, and it seems that your conclusion about death being complete non-existence comes more from dogma, doctrine, and tenets than from the Bible itself.

While you rely on Ecclesiastes 9:5 -10, other passages suggest continued awareness after death, such as Luke 16:19 -31 and Philippians 1:23. These verses complicate the picture and show that the Bible does not present death in only one way.

Your categories of the righteous, the conscientious, and the wicked also simplify a complex biblical message.

Romans 2:14–15, Matthew 7:21–23, and Revelation 20:11–15 indicate that conscience alone is not enough, and resurrection does not guarantee salvation.

Yet your argument seems to rely on selective verses that support your preferred framework, ignoring others that present a broader and sometimes contradictory perspective.

In short, the sense of certainty in your interpretation is shaped by your chosen dogma rather than the full scope of Scripture.

The Bible contains multiple views on death, resurrection, and judgment, and any claim that presents only one interpretation as absolute overlooks passages that challenge it.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:29pm On Dec 15, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
so if you don't believe in heaven and hell where do morals and immorals go to after death?
To address the question of what happens to the Moral and the Immoral after death, I will not imagine as different cultures have imagined different outcomes and force one on you, but I will give you a few examples from which you may pick one which is true...

In ancient Egypt, the deceased’s heart was weighed against a feather, with success leading to eternal life and failure to annihilation.

The Greeks believed most souls went to Hades, with virtuous souls reaching Elysium and the wicked punished in Tartarus.

Vikings imagined warriors entering Valhalla, while others went to Hel.

The Persians, believed souls cross a bridge, judged by the balance of their deeds, entering paradise or a state of suffering.

Islam speaks of Jannah and Jahannam.

Christians of heaven and hell.

I do not claim to know what actually happens. Unlike Christians, I do not hold a belief about the fate of the dead. All I can do is observe that cultures have imagined afterlife outcomes linked to morality, but none of this provides empirical knowledge.

Belief is not proof, and I remain neutral, recognising that what people claim as truth about the dead is shaped by culture, tradition, and faith rather than verified reality.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:27pm On Dec 15, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
You need enlightenment Sir.

It's the Antichrist that welcomed the idea of torment in hell and bliss in heaven not the real Christians so false religion masquerading as Christians is what you know not the real Christians!
I suppose that you are the Christian and doesn't hold the same beliefs of hell and heaven as others who are been led astray by the Antichrist.

You see, I am now interested in knowing what the Christian says, cuz I mightn't have got the right enlightenment.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:18pm On Dec 15, 2025

If a child is caught stealing and claims, “the devil made me do it,” the parent still holds the child accountable because it was the child who acted. Blaming a supernatural entity removes human agency entirely. Moral accountability only makes sense when humans themselves are understood as the actors of their deeds, not as passive vessels manipulated by external forces. Responsibility cannot be shifted to imaginary agents without undermining ethics and observable behaviour.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 2:11pm On Dec 15, 2025
Wrongdoing is best explained through observable human factors such as desire, impulse, social conditioning, environment, and personal responsibility. People often act in ways that please them even when they know others may be harmed. These causes are observed across cultures.

For those who deem wrong doing to be due to the influence of spiritual entities, statements like “the devil made me do it” come from their belief system. However, their claim is not based on direct observation but on religious teaching.

The concept of the devil and the concept of sin emerge from the same theological source. Without exposure to that framework, no one naturally attributes their actions to the devil.

In societies that were never Christianised, people explained wrongdoing in different terms.

This shows that spiritual explanations for sin are belief-based interpretations layered onto behaviour, not independent causes. Human actions can be understood without invoking unseen entities, and responsibility remains with the individual, not a supernatural force.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 1:55pm On Dec 15, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
do you believe in heaven and hell?
I don't think heaven and hell exist.

They are Christian concepts which are borrowed from older belief systems. And interestingly, those older beliefs are labeled paganism just after Christianity milked the concepts that it likes.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:21am On Dec 15, 2025



I prefer not to dwell on this further because discussions about belief often become contests of superiority rather than reason. People defend their beliefs fiercely, sometimes condemning or wishing ill, not to seek truth but to protect what they hold. Evidence rarely changes this.

I have stated my standpoint and the reasons for it. I am not here to argue or convert anyone. You may stand where you stand, and I will stand where I stand. There is no need for endless back-and-forth. My goal is clarity, not confrontation.



Paul framing sin as an internal, almost autonomous force, and the division between flesh and mind, reflects theological assumptions rather than observable mechanisms. In Romans 7, sin is portrayed as a separate entity dwelling within humans, compelling them to act against moral awareness. Modern psychology and neuroscience suggest otherwise.


Moral failure usually arises from the interaction of impulses, habits, cognitive biases, and environmental pressures, rather than an independent force acting within the body.



Cross-cultural evidence supports this. Confucianism emphasises moral cultivation through education and habit, not inherited sin. African and indigenous systems view wrongdoing as a result of lack of guidance or social disharmony. Neuroscience shows self-control and moral reasoning rely on integrated brain processes, not a battle between flesh and mind.


Moral failure is better explained by psychological, social, and environmental factors than by a metaphysical force.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 8:05am On Dec 15, 2025
gohf:
go and ask new mothers how righteous and without faults their new born are. You are typing all this because you don't have children nor raised them.

Do you even know what the word sin means. Sin means going off course, doing what's wrong whether out of ignorance or willingly

That's asides iniquity and transgressions. So being a sinner is simple being human, an error prone being by default
Having a child means taking responsibility for shaping who that child becomes. When a child does wrong, it is not because they were born sinful. It means they need guidance.

That is the job of a parent.

To blame a child’s behaviour on sin is to excuse your own responsibility.

Before Christianity, many cultures did not believe children were born morally flawed.

They understood that children learn through correction, example, and care.

Adults took responsibility for teaching right from wrong instead of placing guilt on the child.

Even the idea of sin as inherited guilt is not universal or natural. It is a later religious idea, not a biological truth.

Psychology shows that morality is learned, not inherited. When adults label children as sinful instead of guiding them, the failure is not in the child but in the ________?
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:55am On Dec 15, 2025
Acting under orders or religious permission is not a defence. The rapist remains guilty, which proves my point that morality cannot depend on scripture or divine approval. Justice must stand independently and be applied consistently.

With David and Jacob, the issue is not whether punishment happened, but how flexible and uneven it appears. David’s consequences fell largely on others, and Jacob’s punishment is read later through interpretation. When justice depends on narrative, status, or belief, it is no longer impartial.

That is why the problem is not only the individual, but the belief systems that allow guilt to be reframed, delayed, or softened based on identity.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:51am On Dec 15, 2025
Are we aware that modern laws exist because humans went beyond religious texts, not because they perfectly reflected them?

If societies were governed strictly by the Bible, there would be no constitutions, no human rights charters, and no secular courts. The development of legal systems is empirical proof that human beings expanded their moral reasoning to address realities scripture did not anticipate.

Yet Christians argue as though conscience is fully formed there, even when evidence suggests otherwise.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:48am On Dec 15, 2025
Dtruthspeaker:
This was completely unnecessary as your question was clear. You are just to derail the debate cos you already know that you are wrong and talking rubbish
It is interesting how you speak with such confidence, as if you know what I believe or what I am thinking. That assumption is the problem. You do not know, yet you claim certainty.

This is why humans should seek knowledge rather than rely on assumption or belief. To know requires understanding, not projection.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:41am On Dec 15, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
then are you trying to say that it is alright since the system and government failed them that it is agreeable for them to continue defrauding white men and women?

2.as for someone like you who don't believe in the Christian God I find it quite odd for you to bring scriptures into this...this scriptures are what you condemn so why bring it up?

3.what will be your final verdict on the rapist who misused his freewill and humanity to kill and murder a minor?

4.since you said you will tackle the very foundation which made fraudsters defraud people especially the white..what is your final verdict for this particular fraudster which led to his victim committing suicide?

Am anxiously waiting for your reply
1. On whether fraud is acceptable because the system failed


No.

A failed system does not make fraud acceptable. Explaining why people commit fraud is not the same as justifying it. Defrauding anyone is wrong.

However, judging only the individual while ignoring the system that produces such behaviour ensures the problem never ends.



2. On using scripture despite rejecting the Christian God


I use scripture because it is part of the foundation I am criticising. You cannot question a system without examining what shaped it. The Bible has influenced morality, power, and justice in society, and pointing out its inconsistencies is critique, not belief.



3. Final verdict on the rapist who murdered a minor


The act is indefensible.

Rape and murder violate humanity at its core. Whatever the background, the individual must be permanently removed from society to protect others and affirm that such actions have irreversible consequences.



4. Final verdict on the fraudster whose actions led to suicide


The fraudster is responsible for the harm caused. Deception that destroys another person’s life is wrong. But responsibility does not stop there...

A society that rewards wealth without ethics and applies justice selectively also shares in the blame.
Literature › Re: Hot Soles by Roycemadeit(op): 10:28pm On Dec 14, 2025
Chapter Four: part 1

I wished there was a turning back. Well, there was, and that would have been me finding a backdoor and sprinting away into the anonymity of Lagos traffic. But that was not happening. Not now. Not with the man standing outside, watching like a hawk sizing up prey. My heart thudded in a rhythm that was both frightening and thrilling, each beat reminding me that I had crossed into territory far beyond my daily mundane existence.

The man outside looked like he was in his early forties, lean but muscular, every movement precise and controlled. But who was to say Titi was not younger than I had imagined? You know how rich kids are, what would take an average person years to accomplish, they seemed to attain in days. Her world was fast, polished, refined. Mine was slow, almost mechanical, and the contrast made my stomach twist with anticipation and nerves.

My thoughts were running wild, scattering in every direction like a rodent chased by a sudden beam of light, panicked and reckless. Yet, what could I do except be the man? Face it. Stand tall. Whatever her request was, I had no idea it would be this.

I stepped out of the office, Michael trailing behind, urging me on with nervous energy. Others in the room stretched their necks, craning to see out the glass door. I had already told Michael what was happening, tried to prepare him for the absurdity of it. The news had spread quickly among the team, whispered from desk to desk. Some gave encouraging nods and reassuring smiles, which boosted my confidence more than I expected. One girl, Serah, scoffed audibly.

“Then go deal with you,” she said. Her words were sharp, teasing, and laced with mockery. “See as your liver done cut finish.”

She was cautioned by a couple of teammates, but did I care? Not at all. I walked out with my head held high. Michael did not step beyond the door. That was for the best; he needed to remain a safe observer, a witness, not a participant. My consolation was this: I had not done anything with her. All the thoughts I had were mine alone, harmless in execution, and in that, I found some small dignity.

I walked towards the soldier. He was waiting, upright and alert, radiating authority and quiet menace. The precision of his posture reminded me of a Sicario in a Mexican film, a man who could end a life without hesitation. I felt my legs stiffen.

“Are you Royce?” he asked, voice firm, a slight edge as if testing me. I nodded.

He repeated the question, the same words, now charged with unspoken threat, as if he were ready to pounce. I answered quickly again, trying to mask any tremor. He gestured to the car door. “In,” he commanded


1 Like
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:55pm On Dec 14, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
but you mentioned freewill...and freewill according to lay mans understanding means unlimited volition.

You said what makes us human is the ability to explore and utilize our freewill..but some deterrent will misunderstood you and thereby the rapist will say he has the freewill to do whatever he likes without caring of the victim’s he wishes to massacre and rape afterwards...the rapist could say that he has the power without the constraint or necessity of fate at his own discretion to rape and kill the minor and that's what makes him human
What if a rapist acted under divine permission, as troubling examples appear in scripture, like when virgins were taken as spoils of war, or when David took another man’s wife and yet was called a man after God’s own heart?

What if a fraudster, like Jacob, swindled his father and took his brother’s blessings, and it was celebrated in holy texts?

These verses, and many others like them, could be interpreted to justify malevolent behavior. Just as Christians once used scripture to rationalize the enslavement of millions, selective interpretation can be wielded to excuse wrongdoing, raising difficult questions about morality, divine sanction, and the human tendency to bend justice to belief.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:49pm On Dec 14, 2025
The major problem with the world is identity.

It divides people, believers against unbelievers, men against women, the rich against the poor, the white against the black, and gives reason to harm one another.

Justice could only exist when identity no longer dictates comparison or ownership, when the sense of superiority is removed, and the field is level for all.

Society, its systems, and prevailing beliefs shape behaviour far more than individuals alone, and punishing one person without addressing these foundations solves nothing.

Humans have the power to reinvent themselves, yet too often we accept suffering or limitation as inevitable. By breaking free from bias and striving for impartiality, society could pursue justice consistently, understand wrongdoing in full context, and allow human potential to flourish without division or excuse.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 9:41pm On Dec 14, 2025
Umbrateeth04:
but you mentioned freewill...and freewill according to lay mans understanding means unlimited volition.


Now my question is as the judge how do you step in on this case?
In the world I envision, there will be a complete overhaul of the systems and values we currently hold dear. The level playing field, flawed as it is, will be reimagined. In this world, actions will not be excused with "I had no choice." People often take from others what they already have in abundance, and society justifies it in ways that obscure the root of the matter. We rarely look at the foundations; instead, we walk on the surface, offering partial justice while ignoring the deeper truths that shape human behavior.

People give reasons for the evil they commit, whether it stems from mental struggles or the absence of consequences. While we might understand the causes behind their actions, fairness demands consistency in judgment. We cannot judge one person harshly while letting another go unpunished. True justice requires impartiality, and partiality undermines the idea of fairness itself.

If I were to judge someone who defrauded another, I would not stop at the individual. Society itself must be judged first, for no person exists in isolation. Condemning one wrongdoer does little to prevent the act from recurring; it may even refine their methods. To address wrongdoing, one must examine and critique the foundations of our culture, the beliefs and systems, including the Bible and God, that shape behavior and perpetuate injustice.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:36pm On Dec 14, 2025
@Umbrateeth04
Your second question

Regarding a man who cannot control his sexual urges, leading him to rape a minor and ultimately kill her, my take is that this is inhumane and deeply abnormal.

Using another person for personal gratification, especially in such a violent and destructive way, violates the most basic principles of humanity. While some may reference religious texts to justify extreme acts, the human conscience, our innate sense of empathy and fairness, recognises that harming another person for selfish reasons is unacceptable.

Yet we have certain religious narratives that describe such actions that today such as taking girls as spoils of war, these should not be seen as a guide for moral behaviour. From a human perspective, causing suffering or death for personal gain is ethically indefensible. Our moral compass should always prioritise humanity, justice, and respect for the autonomy of others.
Christianity Etc › Re: Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op): 7:31pm On Dec 14, 2025
To the first question.


Using another person for your own personal gain, whether financial, emotional, or otherwise, is inhumane. A Yahoo boy who defrauds someone online and causes the victim to take their own life is committing an act that is morally wrong and abnormal. From a human standpoint, such actions are deeply unethical, regardless of the victim’s background.

However, this brings up a larger question about morality versus religious or historical precedent. From the beginning, humanity has always revered what is moral and humane, but history and religious texts show instances where this principle was not upheld. For example, the Bible recounts cases where God commanded the people of Israel to enter lands, kill the inhabitants, and claim the land for themselves.

If you were in the place of those being killed, you would see this as unfair and cruel. This illustrates a tension between what human conscience dictates as right and what some religious interpretations permit.

As humans, we instinctively recognise that harming others for personal gain is wrong... But, would we still share the same sentiments if it was commanded by God? Does our religious affiliation chip away at our humanity or improves it?
Christianity Etc › Is Sin Innate In Us? by Roycemadeit(op):
Your question probably comes from a topic I responded to or created. Because, I do not want it to derail this story: https://www.nairaland.com/8573615/hot-soles,

So, I created this here
@Umbrateeth04


People often say that sin is innate in us, but I do not believe that anyone is born sinful. In fact, I question whether “sin” even exists as a universal concept, it is a construct that originates from Abrahamic religions, which, historically speaking, are relatively recent, when compared with other religions.

Long before these religions emerged, human cultures already had their own understandings of what is good, just, and fair. There was no condemnation from birth.

If someone were to tell me I was a sinner, my first question would be: What do you mean by that? You would need to convince me, because I cannot recognize as “sin” something I do not already understand.


If a Yahoo boy defrauded someone and it led to that person taking their own life, I would agree that this act is wrong. Yet, scenarios often involve shades of grey, and context matters.

To make sense of such issues, we must examine them carefully, case by case.


But, I'll submit my takes to your question and try to restrict them to what's asked.


Umbrateeth04:
you talked about sin been innate in us

My first question
What is your take on a yahoo boy who steals from a white man by deception through Internet fraud then by so doing making the white victim commit suicide?

My second question
What is your take on a man who couldn't control his sexual urge which led him into raping a minor and killing her afterwards?

Pls am waiting for your feedback to my questions

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (of 38 pages)