₦airaland Forum

The truth is that you cannot slap a Nigerian woman in America.
As for American women, if they really love you, slapping is one of the easiest thing they will forgive.
From my experience, most American woman do not abuse that law. They can fight with their boyfriends or husbands and even get physical but they will not let the police involved.
A Nigerian friend of once beat up his American girlfriend, and the neighbors called the cops. But the girl denied that the guy beat her. She told the cops that they were just quarreling and yelling at each other.
After they broke up, this same guy tried it with his Nigerian girlfriend. In this case he didn't really beat her up. They were arguing and the nigerian girl rushed to the toilet and got water from the toilet containing urine and poured it on the guy. As the nigerian girl poured the water, the pushed her and she failed. The nigerian girl got up and called the police and they arrested the guy.
Nigerian women in abroad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fear them, they are dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@justcool
wonderful explanations. I found many answers to some questions that have been bugging me. Keep it up!


@fyneguy
Are you saying that the scriptures tells us to forget all knowlege and prophesy when we have love? So once I fall in love I should forget all my scriptural knowlege and do away with all the scriptural prophesy, including the bible.
Please explain.

@justcool
Nice explanation.

@m-nwankwo and others
What do you think of justcool's explanation

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@jenju
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@jenju
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@ricadelide
I was going to relpy with a different tone but after reading Justcool's post call us to order, I dicided to give this friendly reply.
My initial anger at you is that:
1) your advice to feelgood. If you had just told him to reread justcool's post, I will have no problem with that. But you made seem that he should diasagree with justcool just because he is a folower of the GM.
I felt that this is like initiating a religious war. (I am sorry if that's not what you mean)
2) You accuse him of criticizing the bible, you gave an example of him not agreeing with Jesus litrally turning water to wine. Okay, but every christian has a potion of the bible where he takes to be methaphor and not litrall. Does this make them critics of the bible? The Jehover witness does not believe that Jesus is the litrall son of God and therefore God Himself. But, I have never seen any body call them critics of the bible.
3) the bible does not belong to any religion, so many base their teachings on it. Your Post made seem as if you feel offened the he "criticizes" the bible(your book) and therfore you retaliate by criticizing the GM(his belief)

Also please search all my posts and tell me where you got the information that I am a cross bearer. I am not a cross bearer, niether am I a muslin. I was born a christian and I don't usually get into religious fights. However i enjoy spiritual discusion and exchanging of religious veiws but once this gets into name calling, judgement and condemnation I get annoyed and replused.

Thanks

@ricadelide

I have been following this nice thread for a long time and I have to say this to you:
no matter how much one tries to nice, there will always be people like you who will "shout crucify him" just beacuse he is of a divergent opinion.

ricadelide:
@justcool
Please just cool down
Perhaps I was too forward. I know feelgood (at least we've had interactions on this motherboard in the past) and i know that if he had read the last paragraph of your post, there's no way he'd agree with you, except i'm strongly mistaken. Syrup corroborated that notion in her post, so there's no harm there. My mention of your being a "follower of the GM" was peripheral, what I was mainly interested in was the essential nullification of Christs's work in your post. I did not advice feelgood based on the fact that you are a "follower of the grail message" I did so based on what you said about what Christ did. You can read your last paragraph if you so please. If you were a christian, there is no way you would have written that last paragraph, that's why i mentioned the grail message. However, If my offence was shortening the grail message to GM, i apologize.

How can you tell what feelgood saw and what he did not. Are you God? Are you a mind reader?
This is very uncivilised of you and the fact that you defend your bad actions speaks volume of you.  We all know what you implied by your advice,

ricadelide:
However that said,
1. Grail message
2. No
3. I don't fight against the grail message; i disagree with its contents, just in the same way you disagree with the contents of the bible. No harm done.

If you havent read the book how can you disagree with it's contents? How do you know what it actualy contains, if not that you are biased.
Believe me you are terible liar. Where in this post did justcool diagree with the containts of the bible? Just because he has a different interpretation doent make him disagree. How do you know your own view is correct.

ricadelide:
You did not bring up the grail message but you did bring up the bible. Why can't you hold yourself to the same standard you demand? If one cannot criticize or find fault with the grail message then what makes you think you can criticize the bible? I had no problem with what you said about the teachings of Christ, that's why i took the time to respond to the issues you raised. I see no reason why you refuse to do likewise. Except of course you assume that I have no grounds for disagreeing with the grail message.

Please show me in this thread where just cool criticized the bible. Why do you bear false witness against your neighbor? You are trying to make Christians against him. Wel, I am a Christain too and it is people like you who give us a bad name. Just because he is a folower of GM does not make him the devil.

syrup:
Hi ricadelide,
I have enjoyed the salient points you made to help the gist presented by justcool. I hope this would not risk being viewed as a back-patting exercise, but I just could not resist acknowledging some very fundamental eye-openers in yours. Much appreciated, thank you so much.

@ syrup
Dont tell me you humour this guy(ricadelide) action. Read his last post and tell me if it is beffiting of a christian to make false acusations.

Very interesting!
Why has everybody kept quiet about this issue.  Where are the Christian advocates --4him, cgift, nwando etc.
Where are the a great one advocates -- olabowale, babs 787, frizy etc.
I need you opinions on this issue.

4 Him:
Justcool, your stories have no bearing with the issue you initially raised.
You have sited an extreme case that has no link to millions of other marriages out there based on love, companionship and God's blessings.

Are you kidding me? 90% of marriages today are started bassed on lust and sex. Who cares about true love toda? What men want is nice bodies and girls good in bed, women want men with big pockets, nice cars, nice job, etc.

4 Him:
The bible says the marriage bed is undefiled - whatever my wife and i choose to do on that bed is lawful in the eyes of God.

Chei!!! Chei!!!
Please can you show me where the Bible says that whatever my wife and i choose to do on that bed is lawful in the eyes of God.
There are men who defecate on their wifes face during sex just for pleasure and their women who do the same. So this is lawful in the eyes of God? In Los angeles a woman dies because her husband inserted a very big toy in her behind dring sex. So this death is lawful befor God? What about couples that were experimenting with their dog? Is this lawfull too. What about coulple that chain each other and beat each other up for sexual pleasure, all these a lawful just because they are married? Have ever seen a kinky adult movie and see what soats of thing they do there, There is a married coulple that charge poeple to watch them will having sex, so this pormography is lawful in the eyes of God?

@justcool
Thanks so much for your gentle consideration. You said it all. My friend was already begining to feel that way. There was so many poeple pointing acusing fingers at him. But listerning to only one voice made him to make up his mind. My friend and I are very greatfull to you.

@m_nwankwo
once again thanks for your help. My friend and I are very greatful!

@m_nwankwo,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. Your words are of great help!!!!!!
May you receive help when you're in need. Amen

@justcool
where are you?

@ m_nwankwo
Thanks so much for your reply. I completely agree with you but in your replies the guy's delimer still remains. Indeed now the delimer is worst because based on your advice he should not permit the embryos to be destroyed.
But he is bound legally to make a decision. Even if he pays to keep them at that frozen state(which is terribly expensive), in the future he cannot use them because they belong to both him and his ex-fiance. Both his and her signature are needed for the embryos to be thawed and implanted. As you already know, the ex-fiance is already dating another man and wants the embryos all to herself. The possibility of them getting back together again is out of question.
In less than months their payed time will be over and the case will go to court. The clinic is already suing both parties. Based on past similar situations, the court will allow the clinic to destroy the embryos and have the parties pay the clinic for any extra time that the embryos were frozen in the clinic during the court proceedings.

The last time I spoke him, he said he has decided to let her have them. But being a Christian, his pastor is very much against this decision because it will entail letting an unmarried woman have a child. Since the woman wants everything to herself, my guy would not even be allowed to ever see the kids or raise them. But the financial obligation may still hang on him because(By Law) the woman has no right to relieve the guy any financial obligation to a child that is biologically his.

He cannot give the embryos away either, because the woman's signature is needed. And she wouldn't allow that.
So what should he do?

About the life support. Having a soul captured in a body for 25 years(supported by a machine), is that really justice based on the laws of God. At that state, is that really Gods will? Remember if nature is left to run it's course, the person would have naturally died. But in certain cases when one of the vital organs has been irreparably damaged that the person can no longer really recover, he is put in a life support machine. And kept alive unnaturally and unconsciously. With the knowledge of life after death and the existence of the soul, wouldn't it have been more justice not to put that person in the machine in the first place. Rather losing 25 years which the should could have used to experience the beyond and perhaps incarnate again.
If what you guys believe about life in the beyond, reincarnation and the existence of the soul is right, then death shouldn't be avoided at all costs(especially when it comes naturally) since it is actually progress. Why use unnatural means to cling on to this life when there is more to it?

@imhotep
thanks for your contribution.

@justcool
I can't wait to here your contribution.

@m_nwankwo
1.) The delimer is that the embryos cannot remain frozen forever because they take up space. Part of the charge for the procedure is for the storage and the doctors don't store the embryos longer than it is paid for. The doctors are already threatening to sue my friend if he doesn't make up his mind before the storage time is over. The couple either decide to use the embryos or authorize to have them destroyed. There no longer a couple because at the moment the woman is living with another man; and due to the treatment she gave my friend when she got pregnant, my friend doesn't want anything to do with her again.

2.)Also, m-nwankwo, if the embryos are attached to human spirits, as you explained in another post. Freezing them for ever will have the spirits they are attached to captured forever. Because being attached to a frozed embryo, they cannot incarnate or be free in the beyond. Isn't this more than depriving then the opportunity to experience life on earth. In this case being tied perpetually to a material object will not only prevent them from incarnating but will hinder their experiencing in the beyond.
Also, I might add that from the information my guy got from the doctors. He is the third person that the girl has attempted to do the procedure with and in each case it ended with quarrels, lawyers and lawsuit. The clinic made it clear that once they are done with her this time, that they will never renther her service anymore. But legally, they only done with her when they don't have any of her embryos in their storage.

3.) This reminds me of another question: Having people on life support machine. If there is no possibility of such people ever recovering and living independently of the life sopport machine. Wouldn't it be better to pull the plug(turn off the life support machine) and free their souls rather than living the souls trapped in a physical body that will never recover ?
Based on the knowledge of  the existence of the soul, isn't it unfair to keep the body alive in comer supported by a machine for many years rather than pulling the plug?

Once again thanks for your answers. I very much appreciate it.

@m_nawnkwo
Thanks again for your answers.
So are you saying that my friend should go ahead with the process again and have more embryos implanted in this woman?

M_nawnkwo,
Thanks for your answers. I agree with your answer-it is a sin to destroy embryos no matter how they are fertilized.
Now I have more questions. and this time I will give more details:
1.) In this case, is this distruction same as murder or abortion?
2.) The doctors don't always give every detail about the process of in-vitro fertilization to the persons seeking it. In this particular case, my friend out of sympathy for a fiance agreed to give his sperm for in-vitro. Being younger than his fiance and not knowing all the details, they started the process. More than twenty eggs were fertilized and five implanted into the woman. The doctors didn't tell him that the process involves fertilizing many eggs and destroying unused ones. He only learnt that they had more embryos after the woman got pregnant. Then doctors told him that if the pregnancy progresses beyond a particular stage, the remaining embryos will be destroyed. Once the doctor confirmed that the woman was pregnant, the woman tried to get the guy jailed, She broke the engagement, and called the police and claimed that the guy beats her up. The guy was arrested but released immediately and found not guilty based on the fact that there was no evidences. The guy lost almost everything he had and had to start life afresh. After a few weeks of the pregnancy, the woman had a miscarriage. She tried to have the doctors implant the remaining embryos but they had to get the guys signature. She brought lawyers and tried to get the doctors to do it without the guys consent but all to no avail. Finally she goes back and askers the guy and asks for his signature. My guy refused and would rather have the doctors distroy the embryos. Since if they implant another five, the rest will be destroyed as soon the pregnancy reaches a certain stage. So either way, the some of the embryos will be destroyed.

This is the drama that my friend faces. What would you do if you were in his shoes?

@Songod
still waiting to hear from you

@ m_nwankwo
After reading your answers on the following post:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-129962.0.html#msg2204902

I agree that destroying a naturally fertilized egg(embryo) through abortion is wrong but is the case the same with artificially fertilized eggs?

Please answer these questions.
1.) Is destroying an embryo that was fertilized artificial(fertilized in a test tube) a sin?
2.) In the case of in-vitro fertilization, the doctors usually fertilize many eggs some of which are later implanted into a woman, but once the woman gets pregnant, the remaining embryos are destroyed. If destroying artificially fertilized egg is wrong, what should they do with the remaining eggs?
3.) I know a couple who did in-vitro fertilization, they had more than ten fertilized embryos. But before the woman got pregnant, the man discovered that she was a cheat, she was only using the man and she was not ready to get married. So after so had a miscarriage, the man asked the doctors to destroy the remaining embryos rather implanting them into the woman again. This man got so much criticism from people. Is what this man did wrong?

m_nwankwo I respect your opinions and I know you are a cross bearer so please I humbly beg you to answer the above question from your knowledge of the Grail message.
Justcool, your opinion will be appreciated too.
Any other person can also give his opinion. No insults please!

I was really enjoying the coversation b/w you and justcool in the this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-122588.0.html

Sungod, you promised to come back but you never did. Have you thrown in the towel? Any way, you need to comback and atleast accept defeat.

4 Him:
Ignorance? Where? You mention that the bible was already written before King James came along . . . bros, the bible had long been written before the catholics came to do their famous "compilation" . . . the Jews had the Torah thousands of years before any pope was born so who is more ignorant here?

@4Him

Bros you are making a mistake. Nobody eversaid that the catholics wrote the bible. The catholics compiled it, and King James has nothing to do with the compilation.

The bible did not exist before the catholics compilation. What existed was the Torah and some letters written to various churches by Paul, Peter, etc, and many different accounts of the life of Jesus. The catholics collected all these books and out of the many accounts of Jesus's life, they chose four(the gospels) and compiled a book called the Bible. Prior to the compilation the bible as a book never existed. The word Bible comes from the word Bibilea which is a house where Scriptures are collected and kept.
Historicaly, the bible is actualy a book of the Catholics.

US is not a Christan country. In America there is separation of state and religion! Any body can practice any religion in America as long as it doesn't interfare with peoples human rights.
This thread speaks of so much ignorance!
This same thing is applicable to Great Britain.

I love those photos as much as I love Kenyans. I'm a full fledged Nigerian living in America and from my experience, Kenyans are one of the most respected African people. Americans love and respect Kenyans. They are always humble and never with a know-it-all attitude. Even in this thread I can see this quality in them. So many black Americans go by Kenyan names, my co-worker is called Nia, She is American. They even have a holiday -- Kwanzaa -- which I learnt is of Swahili origin. Believe it or not, outside Africa Swahili is the most known and the most popular African language.
I love Nigeria but I have to say that we have one of the worst reputation -- 419, arrogance, know-it-all, and jealousy.
Shouldn't we all be happy for Kenya's beautiful city. Are they not black Africans, our brothers. Do they have to be whites before we admire and respect them.Why can't they speak Swahili if they want. I have seen people speak Igbo, Hausa, and Yoruba in this forum and nobody crucified them. We have to tolerate our brothers.
Lets work on making ourbeloved Nigeria better rather than putting others down.

@ africanese .
You're a gentle man

Ivviee:
electrical engineering is categorised as computer engineering by IEEE and the manner of discipline gears towards PLC's, PAC's, signal processings, multiplexers, networks and so on. It is also integrated with computer science and data structure. Where does rewiring come into place. I don't know the part the globe you reside but this sheer ignorance is just not comprehendable.

Your above reference to IEE is very wrong. According to IEE:
IEEE's Constitution defines the purposes of the organization as "scientific and educational, directed toward the advancement of the theory and practice of electrical, electronics, communications and computer engineering, as well as computer science, the allied branches of engineering and the related arts and sciences."
(wekipedea)
The fact that they listed "electrical, electronics and computer engineering," shows that they don't categorise electrical engineering as computer engineering otherwise they wouldn't list them like that(separating them with a comma). If they had placed a slash in between them then that would have shown that both fields are categorized as one. (ie electrical/computer engineering)

Mind you only in America do some institutions merge the two fields (which are related) together under electrical engineering. In the rest of the world, they are two different fields or disciplines. Read this from wikipedea:

"Electrical engineering may or may not encompass electronic engineering. Where a distinction is made, usually outside of America, electrical engineering is considered to deal with the problems associated with large-scale electrical systems such as power transmission and motor control, whereas electronic engineering deals with the study of small-scale electronic systems including computers and integrated circuits.[1] Another way of looking at the distinction is that electrical engineers are usually concerned with using electricity to transmit energy, while electronic engineers are concerned with using electricity to transmit information."
(wikipedea)

Please get your facts right.

In another tread I made reference to some electrical engineers that can't even wire their homes and Ivvie replied by:

[b[i]]"I'm sorry to say, but this is what I call total nonsense integrated with complete ignorance.   What has electrical engineering got to do with wiring a home or fixing light bulbs.  This is classic rebranding of ignorance.

If you claim to have studied engineering in the United States, you wouldn't make such unintelligent remark about electrical engineering because electrical engineering is categorised as computer engineering by IEEE and the manner of discipline gears towards PLC's, PAC's, signal processings, multiplexers, networks and so on.  It is also integrated with computer science and data structure.  Where does rewiring come into place.  I don't know the part the globe you reside but this sheer ignorance is just not comprehendable."[/i][/b]

When I said wiring a house, I didn't mean doing the actual manual wiring. An engineer could have an electrician do that, but an electrical engineer should be able to understand what the electrician is doing, infact he should know the principle behind distributing power around a house more than a mere electrician. An engineer can design how his house would be powered, this design can even be done on the computer, and he can supervise the electrician who does the actual wiring. You call me ignorant but your post betrays your unspeakable ignorance. You should know that the concept and the science behind powering (wiring) a house is far less complected than the concept behind a simple radio circuit talk less of signal processing, multiplexers, and networking.
What you said is like saying that a doctor should not be able to give an injection because being a doctor is about diagnosing, performingry and treating diseases. We all know that giving injection(I don't mean prescribing) is the work of a nurse but show me a doctor who can't give an injection and I will show you one who is a quack.
You might as well say that a mathematician should not be able to calculate his change because that is the work of a cashire.
Please give me you contribution. The question is should an electrical engineer be able to power his home?

Please go to https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110845.0.html#msg1927866

Please refer to https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110845.0.html#msg1927866

This topic belong to the career forum not education.

bawomol:
I have seen people who have degree's in electrical engineering paying local electricians to wire their houses

electrical engineerings deal with the theoretical aspects of circuits and design. technicians deal with the practical aspects. electrical engineering isn't just about wires. a mechanical engineer may be unable to fix a car because his SPECIALIZATION isn't automotive engineering

I truly doubt your claim to be a student in America. How can you write such nonsense. If an engineer does not want to do the manual labour that wiring a house intails, at least he will design the way the energy should be distributed and supervise the labourers(electricians). When I say wiring, i don't mean the manual labour. Wiring (distribution of energy around a house) can be done on the computer. No electrical engineer, of which I am one should be ignorant of wiring a house or an electricians job.
You are terribly ignorant!!!!!!
Who is a technician??
What you call technicians are manual laborers. A technician is actually a skilled labourer. An engineer is definitely a technician.
You claim to be in America yet you use words (Technician) wrongly. Come and I will show my class mate and their houses which they wired themselves. A friend of mine(an engineer) bought a house and completely rewired the house to fit his lifestyle.
Another friend of mine(a graduate from USC) at the moment is installing solar panels in his house.
Your analogy about a mechanical engineer not being able to fix a car is totally wrong and misguided. First of all, mechanical engineers don't specialize in fixing cars. Ever hared of automotive technologists. In America schools have auto labs where students fix cars, even junior colleges like Los Angeles Trade-Tech college fix cars. That's where I fix mine, they do an excellent job. Yet this just a junior college.

Actually I wont say that all Nigerian Engineers are incompetent. Our informal engineers (the so called mechanics) are not just good but some of them are geniuses. Some of our local mechanics are excellent engineers.
You may not agree with me that they are engineers but in Nigeria I have seen people who have degree's in electrical engineering paying local electricians to wire their houses. Now tell me, in who is an electrical engineer? The one with a degree but can't wire his house or the one that actually does it albeit without a degree.

This is the reason why Nigeria does not grow technologically; even if you are a genius with all the experiences in the world and even if you invent a marvelous thing, nobody will respect you or consider your project for financing if you don't have a degree.

If you read about the history of scientific discoveries you will see that some of the greatest inventors in science and engineering do not have formal education.

nigeria1:
So what are you saying, that nigeria engineers do not know how to design. That is nosense. They never even get a chance to do that most of the time because our govt officer are busy collecting bribe in dollar from this oversea company. Even Rat construction company abroad are big company in NIGERIA.
I had classmate in NIGERIA then who design some thing i can remember. any fool can design my friend. what makes any engineer is that certificate. B ENG or B SC in engineering. You may decided to put the certificate under your bed or throw it into sea. Your B Eng is what qualifies you.

So if nurse can give you a medication note to buy. She is now a doctor>> No way. It is certificate, that make you a doctor. You may be a good doctor or a bad one, so is engineering. You may say Nigeria engineers are business men and they do not have time for engineering. i agree.

Ha ha ha. So funny. I dont need to reply to this. You did not understand my post.

I can't believe this!!!!!
I am surprised that even people who call themselves engineers can not define engineer. So many people in this posts, by their statements, are not even qualified to be called graduates.
The problem with Nigerians is that we only see only the text book(Theoretical) definition of things and completely forget the practical (concrete) definition.
Before I go into who is an engineer and whether our engineers are competent, I have to clarify issues.
There are two types of education:
1. Formal(Going to school)
2. Informal education. (Education gotten by experience)
Both of them are valid forms of education and in civilized countries like America, both are equally important. In Nigeria, unfortunately we disregard and discredit Informal education as useless.
One who went to university (formal education) and acquired a degree in an engineering course is only a formal engineer, a chartered engineer, or an incorporated engineer.
One who builds, repairers and invents or works on an engine is also an engineer, even if he/she did not have formal education.
Each side is as important as the other. In America nothing replaces "hands on" experience. Thats why people work and go to school at the same time in-order to acquire both formal and informal education.
I live in America and I go to a very respected engineering school. I'm also working in a company.

The American Engineer's Council for Professional Development defines an Engineering as:
"The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property."[3][4][5] One who practices engineering is called an engineer, and those licensed to do so have formal designations such as Professional Engineer, Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer.
(Wekipedia)


The webstar English dictionary defines an Engineer as:
1. a person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer.
2. a person who operates or is in charge of an engine.
3. Also called locomotive engineer. Railroads. a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive.
4. a member of an army, navy, or air force specially trained in engineering work.
5. a skillful manager: a political engineer.
–verb (used with object)
6. to plan, construct, or manage as an engineer: He's engineered several big industrial projects.
7. to design or create using the techniques or methods of engineering: The motor has been engineered to run noiselessly.
8. to arrange, manage, or carry through by skillful or artful contrivance: He certainly engineered the election campaign beautifully.

Coming to who is a technician.
A technician is anybody trained(either formally or informally) in the application of any subject,  and applies the techniques of his skill in his job.
Therefore enengineers are also technicians. Technicians are not lilimited to construction and manufacturing, an artist can be a technician too. For example a person with a degree in banking and finance and works in this field could be called a finance technician|_
The webstar didictionaryefines a technician as:
1. a person who is trained or skilled in the technicalities of a subject.
2. a person who is skilled in the technique of an art, as music or painting.


About wheather Nigerian engineers are competent. Please seek the definition of competence. I wont wast time here all I can say is that ishmael is making a lot of sense. I agree with Ishmeal.

Quote from Kismat
"And (remember) when We made the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) a place of resort for mankind and a place of safety. And take you (people) the Maqâm (place) of Ibrâhim (Abraham) [or the stone on which
Ibrâhim (Abraham) >> stood while he was building the Ka'bah] as a place of prayer, and We commanded Ibrâhim (Abraham) and Ismâ'il (Ishmael) that they should purify My House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) for those who are circumambulating it, or staying (I'tikâf), or bowing or prostrating themselves (there, in prayer)."
"And (remember) when Ibrâhim (Abraham) said, "My Lord, make this city (Makkah) a place of security and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allâh and the Last Day." He (Allâh) answered: "As for him who disbelieves, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the torment of the Fire, and worst indeed is that destination!"

"And (remember) when Ibrâhim (Abraham) and (his son) Ismâ'il (Ishmael) were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah), (saying), "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily! You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower."



@ Moslems
My first question is this:
So moslems believe that Abraham the father of the Jews lived in Meca (Middle east) How come the moslems persecute Jews and claim that the land of Isreal(Middle east) does not belong to the Jews?

My second question:
In this tread you claim that the Koran doesnt support lust and fonication and adultry, but I was under the impression that the Koran says it's okay for a man to have sex with his slaves. Mind you the slaves are not married to them. Is this not fornication and adultry.

My third question:
I heared that the Koran teaches that when a good moselem dies he will have ten virgins in heaven to have sex with. Sex in heaven??
How can one have sex in heaven? Do poeple go to heaven with thier physical bodies? To cathegorize sex as a heavenly practise to me is the height of lustfulness.

Please answer without pregudice. Thanks in advance.

@ pilgrim.1
I must be honest with you, Justcool dosent deserve your unnecesary aggresion towards him. 

pilgrim.1:
@justcool,

Let's help you grasp simply English, if you're struggling with it.

(a) Your assertion that Muhammad did not bring a religion is hugely flawed by what is in the Qur'an - and that was the reason why I quoted the verses to establish the FACT!

(b) It is inconsequential what you think of the Bible or the Qur'an, as long as you don't assume to make false statements about them and pretend them as truth. In which case, your pretentions that Muhammad never brought any religion is false - for the Qur'an demonstrates otherwise.

(c) If you care for simplicity and truth, you will not leave yourself open to the sort of embarrassments that you struggle to come back to save face - and that was why I hinted that it were better you carefully checked with the FACTS before assuming to make any comments.

a) I compeletly diasgree with you here. By the guys source Muhamed did not bring any religion. But by your source(the quran) he did bring anew religion. But the guy is not qureeling with you over the quran. why do you keep beinging up the quran to him.
You qouted the quran to establish a fact . This is serious ohhh !!!!!! So the moselems have finally won you over. Since when did the quran become factual

b) You keep using the quran which you know is not the guys source.

c) I don't see any saving face on the guys side. You didnt understand my first post I never agreed with your oversealous manner.

pilgrim.1:
Such assumptions are the hallmark of self-deception; because what you allege against others are more heavily manifested in yours. You have closed your eyes against the FACTS and refused to go directly to the sources, and that is why you keep making otiose remarks that bear no weight at all. God did not give you intelligence to make false statements against issues you have no clues - so please refrain from these cheap applauses and do the simple thing that common sense requires.

I can't bekieve this!!!! What sources?? the quran.  Please sombody help me tell philgrim 1 that the quran and the bible is not justcoll's sources.


Sorry but I have to say the truth.