₦airaland Forum

GeneralDae:
Someone is in Nigeria telling you what's currently on ground, you are arguing.

Don’t mind the idiot, all the Nigerian student studying abroad.Does he think the parents in Nigeria pay their children school fees through the high black market rate from abokis?

Mkenya2019:
I beat my friend for the job...why do you need a love letter to buy dollars..if dollars freely flow in flow out..you don't reason to bring them out or in..you're just a Zòooooooo

This is not a jungle like Kenya, where people do things without process and uniformity.

We don’t negotiate dollar rate at the bank like you are in a street market.

In Nigeria, you don’t even need to visit the bank to get dollar.

You just need to fill your FORM A form online to access FX, I still pay a sibling school fees in the UK from the comfort of my home.

Mkenya2019:
It's gotten worse

You don’t know what you are talking about.

Like I said only yahoo boys, politician and those dealing with banned goods access dollar from the black market

Mkenya2019:
I didn't ask around..in 2015 my Nigerian friend told me how surprised he was to able walk to Kenya bank..exchange naira and dollars into kshs..I now know you go to the bank..apply for dollars like you apply for a job.In Kenya forex are no big deal...you buy in the bank anytime..you only negotiate the rate.Now I read airlines can't fly to Nigeria because unless they use illegal means they can't dollars out..Ethiopia..South Sudan..these things give airlines and International companies real legal issues

Ask your friend again.

There’s process here, you have to show what you want the dollar for before you are given.

Mkenya2019:
NNPC has not paid taxes or dividend in its 40 yrs history.They own NLNG.They take money in subsidies ..they don't contribute

NNPC pay Tax every year

Mkenya2019:
Don't lie.Nigerians including those who need urgent medical attention if they go bank..makes a application for forex..whose results will come out when they dead if they are stupid enough to wait.Naira has many windows of exchange

Why would I lie?

Nigerians traveling make use of PTA/BTA, you don’t even need to go to the bank to initiate the process.

That’s where everyone that’s traveling in Nigeria get their FX from, the bank.

You can ask around.

gallivant:
I didn't create the illegality I just pointed it out. You can't have parallel economies in a country. One must be a paper economy, the official government one that is.

There's no parallel economy.

If you need FX, you go to the bank and you will be given. The only people that use the black market are yahoo boys, politicians and those that are importing goods that have been banned by the Federal Government.

Normal Nigerians go to the banks for their FX.

Mkenya2019:
Why then does backstreet exist and why do they ask twice the naira.we have read tears of how you apply for forex then wait for two months from you bank..it like applying for a job in gov..in Kenya you walk in walk out.Dont think we don't know these things...we have been on your case since 2016.In 2015 I had interview with aNigerian..we had drink and he told me troubles he took to get dollars to fly to Kenya .For Kenya these stories that ended in 1993.Those stupid forex controls exist in Ethiopia..in Kenya kshs float freely..there is no forex control..only basic question to weed out fraud and money launders

Backstreet exist for the criminal, they exist everywhere in the world.

Nonsense, if you need FX, you just need to apply to the bank. Even the process have been simplified.

If you need FX for travelling, you can request for PTA/BTA from the comfort of your home, you don't even need to visit the bank branch, check the website below.

https://www.tradesystem.gov.ng/login

You just need to upload your travel documents and You will just pick the FX at any close bank branch nearest you, you dont even need to have an account with the bank to do that.

gallivant:
The black market rate is the realistic figure, it doesn't exist to compliment the official fake rates.

Only people that are trading the CBN banned items access dollar from the black market.

Why should the government support your illegality?

Mkenya2019:
I used the official rate which doesn't reflect real weakness of naira..you're cheating yourselves instead of like Kenya freely floating naira and having one uniform rate...not rate for the rich dangotes...while rest of you go to backstreet for dollars. A ZOO

Mumu..who go to backstreet for dollars?

You can access the FX you need from the bank.

Obaaderemi2:
The exchange rate is #440. That's the official rate.

That guy is a weirdo, why will we use the black market rate to calculate the budget?

Will government source it FX from the black market?

GeneralDae:
In the Jonathan era, Nigeria made way more than this in dollars term, even in the Obasanjo era. Revenues have been much lower in the last decade and it's now we are doing more to look into the non oil sectors as major sources of the budget.

We were doing 64 billion dollar budget during obasanjo Era. But of course then it was an undiversified budget.

98% financed from oil revenue, that’s why we inherit the behavior of benchmarking the budget with oil price, even when revenue from non-oil is surpassing that of oil revenue.

It also led to the PDP government shying away from Taxation, they were still scared of a disgruntled middle-class which will result in coups, they grew comfortable with just earning fat oil money and that’s where the misconception that Nigeria is a rich country (the phrase our oyel money) came from.

if not for obasanjo withholding federal allocation to Lagos because of his rift with Tinubu.

Lagos wouldn’t have discovered an alternate route to generating IGR through Taxes, it was a blessing in disguise for Lagos state.

Mkenya2019:
You wish..if we use the real exchange rate..its 20 trillion naira

Lol..Too much Igbo.

Your revenue is 2 trillion Shilling, which is around 14 billion dollars.

Nigeria..just federal alone is doing around 20 billion dollars, if we add the state, that will be around 27-28 billion.

GeneralDae:
The problem is at the local Government and state levels. Lagos started with things like Alphabeta and LIRS which the Federal Government incorporated. The states need to follow that pattern to have their taxes more organized. You would see there are lots of leakages at state levels and the IGR of many states would increase five fold.
Lagos was already generating much in 1999 but they had low revenue reports until leakages were blocked and revenue collection was reformed and became more organized. Lagos increased revenue from 600 million (in 1999) to 7 Billion naira in 2007 (more than ten times in 8 years).

Rivers state Tax collection is so haphazard, I couldn’t even review it, it was a mess.

Most companies were just paying whatever they feel like, just to get their tax clearance, nobody even seems to care if they are paying the right amount.

And considering that Rivers state is the oil state, I expected its revenue to be closer to Lagos. But look at where it is, very low. It will soon be surpassed by Ogun state.

Imagine Ogun state generating more that Rivers state, the biggest oil producing state. It’s a shame.

GeneralDae:
The problem is at the local Government and state levels. Lagos started with things like Alphabeta and LIRS which the Federal Government incorporated. The states need to follow that pattern to have their taxes more organized. You would see there are lots of leakages at state levels and the IGR of many states would increase five fold.
Lagos was already generating much in 1999 but they had low revenue reports until leakages were blocked and revenue collection was reformed and became more organized. Lagos increased revenue from 600 million (in 1999) to 7 Billion naira in 2007 (more than ten times in 8 years).

I’ve done some work with LIRS, trust me those guys are good.

They are far better than FIRS, they have upgraded their tax collection system like 3-4 times in the past decade.

LIRS new Tax system is very robust, they have plugged a lot of leakages in their system.

If you compare to other states and even FIRS, they are still using Pay-Direct and Remitta for Tax payment, Tax is calculated by Tax agents who have been bribed by the company to lower payment.

If you go to Ogun IRS, the corruption is so stifling and widespread the workers there have grown fat on corrupt kickbacks.

GeneralDae:
A lot of corporations are also indebted to Government as well. There is currently a pending 2.6 trillion naira debt (over 6 Billion dollars) which the senate is reviewing and Government would get.
This is without factoring the 10 Billion dollars (owed by Benin, Niger, Togo) as well as the 2.4 Billion dollars from corrupt oil deals in 2014.
There is just no way Nigeria can get bankrupt or be compared to Kenya. The argument is baseless.

And our Tax system is so lenient, it barely exist.

FIRS only colllect Tax from corporations not individuals.

Many rich Nigerians do not pay any Tax at all, they only pay PAYE to their state government every year.

If we can do away with oil susbsidy, increase our Tax net. I don’t see the reason why we are not doing 90 billion in revenue.

Obaaderemi2:
You see. This is why outsiders like that Kenyan can not understand how Nigeria stays afloat.

We should be doing more though.

Do you think the federal government should start taxing individuals?

Mkenya2019:
Again you're twisting and turning ..just answer the question what are total revenues in 2022

N9.969 trillion.

https://www.budgetoffice.gov.ng/index.php/fgn-2023-budget-call-circular?task=document.viewdoc&id=1016


FIRS collected over 10 trillion naira Tax in 2022.

Mkenya2019:
We repay 12 billion annually

From which money?

Your budget is around 20 billion, if you’re using 12 billion to service debt, you have just 8 billion to run your country.

GeneralDae:
Can Kenya even pay 5 Billion dollars debt at once?

You want them to sell their president?

Mkenya2019:
You had whopping 18 billion cancelled but 15yrs later you're choking again in debt with debt servicing ratio past 100 percent.kenya has never had any debt forgiven.

Oh..it’s 18 billion dollar, i thought it was 40 billion dollars?

You are very dumb fellow, we paid 12 billion to have 18 billion cancelled.

So in reality the debt that was canceled was 6 billion.

Mkenya2019:
Save the abuses - it doesnt work on me.
Just tell us what Nigeria has collected in 2022.
Revenues upto september was 4 trillion "Puts revenue as at September 2022 at N4.19trn – 67% target.
So if we had 1.1 trillion every month for Oct, Nov, Dec - we are talking 7 trillion - 70% below projected 10 trillion in 2022.
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2022/12/02/ahmed-nigeria-not-broke-economy-challenged-on-many-fronts/

Is your brain dysfunctional or do you just have a problem with maths?

January to September thats 9 month, how can the revenue generated be 4 trillion when we did 1.22 trillion in June and 1.26 trillion in July.

Can’t you see your article is talking about oil revenue only.

The revenue inflow to the federation account from the oil and non-oil sector increased by 3.28 percent to N1.26 trillion in July 2022 from the N1.22 trillion recorded in June.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/08/nigerias-revenue-up-3-28-to-n1-26trn-in-july/amp/

Nigeria budget has always been benchmark against oil prices, which means revenue from oil sales figures have always been use to judge the budget performance

Mkenya2019:
English is your main problem.
2021 - 4 trillion - actual - against 6.3 trillion projected.73% achievement.
2022 - 10 trillion projected - we shall see how much they collected soon - generally they've been doing around 1.2 trillion per Q - so total might be 5 trillion. 50% of the projection

2023 - again projecting 10 trillion plus. They just cant help but be ambitious and delusional.

And they are hoping to borrow 10 trillion more...cant help but be irresponsible.

Pulling figures out of your ass again RVP?

Where’s the proof that Nigeria collects 1.2 trillion per Quarter?

“The report also put the gross federation receipt that is revenue collected at N1.18 trillion in October, higher than the September receipt by 7.0 percent “as a result of significant boost in oil revenue.”

That was what was collected in the month of october.

A Quarter is 3 month, where did you keep getting these figures from? Are you right in the head?

IGpro1:
Nigerians 2023 federal Budget (excluding state budget) is
6.005 trillion in Kenyan Shilling.

We really need to improve on our tax collection.

The number of people paying Tax is to low in Nigeria

GeneralDae:
As at the end of 2021 (October 2021), 10.13 trillion naira was already available (not estimated) which included revenues from 63 Government owned enterprises to fund the 16 trillion naira budget of 2022. Read the bolded.

Nigerian ministers most times speak of the budget based on estimated oil revenues. Our budget have always been officially benchmarked and estimated based on oil revenues.

Stop trying to convince him.

He will only believe what he wants to believe, facts does not matter(unless when they portray Kenya in a good light) to this kind of people. They are too far gone in their delusion.

Mkenya2019:
Businessday.ng
https://businessday.ng › article › eg...
Egypt, Kenya overtake Nigeria in value of startup funding in H1 -in 2022.Generally it depends on who is ranking but kenya has been either no 1 or 2 the last few years Africa tech sector started attracting serious capital.South Africa and Egypt complete the Big Four.

Lmao, you are a deceitful person.

You are very fond of making a statement and backing it up with the wrong article or source, there’s nothing in the business day article you posted and what you are claiming.

Mkenya2019:
Kenya has just few developers short of Nigeria who jointly with morroco follow south africa. Kenya tech space in terms of funding is neck to neck with Nigeria beating South Africa. https://technext.ng/2022/02/22/africa-now-has-716000-software-developers-a-3-8-rise-in-one-year/

You’re not neck to neck with Nigeria in tech funding

rvp2018:
I don't need more than first entry of Google search for you Zoo.How did your 2021 or 2022..actual vs projection pan out.You always make ridiculous projections but your total revenues including all states is ridiculous.Nigeria is an obvious zoo.Its now has world worst gdp to revenues ratio..something 5.5 percent

But your search result is not turning up anything.

Stop being clueless, you included a link that has nothing to do with the argument.

rvp2018:
Nigeria hilarious budget making...First four months..actual revenue were 45 percent of projected.Who does these projections and what are they on.In Kenya projected versus actual are very close..infact its sometimes exceed the projections..105%...but the Zoo..
www.dataphyte.com
Nigeria's 2022 Budget Revenue Projections have been Revised, it is now ...

Lmao..you are hilarious ..just what is this?

After scouring through the internet, you still could not find anything, you are posting a link that has nothing to do with the discussion.

GeneralDae2:
Kenya has a huge debt servicing problem and must do something urgently before 2024 when some of these foreign Eurobond debts mature.

They are defaulting, they don’t have money to pay those debt.

Their new president has been looking to sell a lot of state assets, even their stake in Kenya airways is being considered, the IMF just gave them 447 million dollars last week.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/imf-approves-447-million-for-kenya-to-address-debt-reforms

GeneralDae2:
States also increased budgets across too. If we add all 36 states plus FCT, we are talking 60 Billion dollars or more. Lagos has a budget of 4 Billion dollars and about 3-4 other states I heard of had budgets over 1 Billion dollars this.

Yeah, Rivers state should be doing 2 billion dollars soon.

Frankly, Nigeria is not Kenyan mate.

Our tier 1 city is commissioning intra-city Rail, Nairobi their Tier 1 city does not even have a functioning BRT. They are still busing celebrating mutatu in the 21st century.

rvp2018:
They must be drunk from all the festivities of the end year; I suggest you move budget making to mid-year You already have debt servicing exceed revenues; naira has issues; economy is sick; and instead of reducing the budget; they've doubled it? What magic will they use to finance it.

And that’s just the federal budget, when the various state finalises their budget latest by February, we should be expecting something close to 75 to 80 billion dollars.

I expect capital expenditure should be around 30-35 percent, that’s more money to spend on infrastructure than the whole Kenya budget, the gap between Nigeria and Kenya just keep getting wider.

You might not match our level of development in decades to come.